Originally posted by ssstupido but dont worry. your problem lies much more deeper. it doesnt matter if you are actually right and everybody is training for a raven. what you dont understand is that doing that is in fact roleplaying. if i want to be a miner, i will train for the covetor, which is supposedly a minmatar ship, even though i may be caldari or gallente, but the covetor is the best easily-available mining ship. if i want to be a trader, i will train for a iteron 5, since its the best industrial ship, and it doesnt matter that i am amarr, i just want to be an efective trader. if i want to be a pirate, i will train for a vagabond or a pilgrim, although i am caldari, because those are 2 of the best pirating ships. see? i do not roleplay a race. i am not roleplaying a caldari. i am roleplaying a caldari pirate. and i want to use the best ship for my career. or i could be roleplaying an amarr working for the Empire, so i will try to train for a Raven, since is the best ship to do the missions with.
That is why roleplay is a balance issue. Having one piece of equipment, one race, one class, or one skill better than all the rest at a certain job doesn't give players roleplaying freedom. Instead, it creates a bunch of clone miners piloting Covetors, the same clone traders piloting Iteron Vs, the same clone pirates piloting Vagabonds and Pilgrams with no diversity amongst the lot of them. It is just doing the best combo of equipment, or race, or class, or skills; and what really in the end makes you any more special or unique than the other 10,000 people doing the same thing?
If you wanted to be the best healer on your server, and Elves get a bonus for healing just for being Elves, what race would you pick, and what makes you any different than the 10,000 other Elf healers who are doing the exact same things you are doing?
Nobody wants to roleplay a gimp, but there isn't much room to express your uniqueness by doing the same FOTM build everyone else is doing. People roleplay to put forth a unique twist on the mundane game, but its hard to do when you are eitther FOTM, or SOL.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by ssstupido but dont worry. your problem lies much more deeper. it doesnt matter if you are actually right and everybody is training for a raven. what you dont understand is that doing that is in fact roleplaying. if i want to be a miner, i will train for the covetor, which is supposedly a minmatar ship, even though i may be caldari or gallente, but the covetor is the best easily-available mining ship. if i want to be a trader, i will train for a iteron 5, since its the best industrial ship, and it doesnt matter that i am amarr, i just want to be an efective trader. if i want to be a pirate, i will train for a vagabond or a pilgrim, although i am caldari, because those are 2 of the best pirating ships. see? i do not roleplay a race. i am not roleplaying a caldari. i am roleplaying a caldari pirate. and i want to use the best ship for my career. or i could be roleplaying an amarr working for the Empire, so i will try to train for a Raven, since is the best ship to do the missions with.
That is why roleplay is a balance issue. Having one piece of equipment, one race, one class, or one skill better than all the rest at a certain job doesn't give players roleplaying freedom. Instead, it creates a bunch of clone miners piloting Covetors, the same clone traders piloting Iteron Vs, the same clone pirates piloting Vagabonds and Pilgrams with no diversity amongst the lot of them. It is just doing the best combo of equipment, or race, or class, or skills; and what really in the end makes you any more special or unique than the other 10,000 people doing the same thing?
what makes me special? just me, my actions, my decisions. you see? there are a lot of possibilities. for my gaming style it may be better to mine on a covetor, but since it requires a lot of skills to fly, for another miner it will be better to train for a retriever or an apocalypse.
for me it may be better the iteron 5, but for some people it may be better the caldari transports, since it can be shield tanked and leave all low slots for cargo expanders/speed.
for me the vagabond maybe the best pirating ship, but for many other people the best could be the crow, or the ishtar.
in the end what makes you special or diferent from the rest are your decisions. and that is roleplaying. taking the decisions your character would take.
if you think everybody flyes the same ships you are very mistaken. there are many reasons other than "flavor of the month" to decide what to train for.
if you think there is one race, one skill, one ship... better than the rest, you dont know about EVE. first thing everybody will tell is that there is no I-WIN botton, no best ship.
anyway, if you cant roleplay on EVE, bad for you, i am having a great time doing it
Originally posted by xblast5000 I'm a bit of a roleplayer I like every name and every guild name to realistic of the type of game. Also talking as though you were actually your toon. Most MMOs have roleplaying server, but it is like why bother. Most people don't even follow the rules. WoW is the number one game with ignorant people that don't know what roleplaying. When I played WoW which was over a year ago I started a character on the roleplaying server. I look at the names around me and already I see one that isn't acceptable. I told him the server is roleplaying and responded with what is that?
We can't let roleplaying die, it is the basis of MMORPG.
One character per account.
One server for all subscribers.
The players, their guilds, and their policies hold the power to bring the planet into a new age of utopian enlightenment and brotherhood, or devastate the countryside, burn every city in sight, and self destruct the planet itself into a million pieces, permanently killing every player character in the game and ending the storyline.
Personally, I'm anxious to see what people decide to do with our game.
If that isn't real roleplay, I don't know what is.
One character per account. One server for all subscribers. The players, their guilds, and their policies hold the power to bring the planet into a new age of utopian enlightenment and brotherhood, or devastate the countryside, burn every city in sight, and self destruct the planet itself into a million pieces, permanently killing every player character in the game and ending the storyline. Sooo.......if we nuke the planet on the third day you guys are gonna what?.......shut the servers down? (I had to ask lol, I'ma stinker) Server Message: Sorry everyone, Divergence is now closed because the "holy buttmunch clan" has destroyed the known world with a salvo of nuclear fire. Personally, I'm anxious to see what people decide to do with our game. Me too! Sounds like it could be highly destructive and messy. If that isn't real roleplay, I don't know what is. www.divergence-online.com
I think that you try to compare modern MMOs with Pen and paper RPGs that inspired computer game designers.
Actually role playing has nothing to do with MMORPGs since game designers just took the skill mechanics and hit points from Pen and paper games and transfered them to online games.
I like that you respect name restrictions and the behavior of your character and i encourage You to do so, but there is no Dungeon Master to verify and encourage this and many other aspects of your role playing Character, that they should change the story line according to your desicions and actions (spoken and combat) as a member of the party you play with and the role you have in it.
Pen and paper Games had to do with You and Your Role as a party member and not only as a character with skills and attributes that gains levels.
Online RPGs have no real people as dungeon masters that can actually create stories for you and your party to play. Just static quests that they don't alter the story line if You fail to complete them. You just have to try again and again.
There was no competition and loot mania between party members in Pen and Paper RPGs.
But the real power of Pen and Paper games was that they had internal confrontations between what are your views as a moral entity of a fantastic person and what you must do as a member of the party that you live in. Changes to Your alignment or Your party's affected quests skills and storyline in a way which only a Human DM could understand and implement.
I think of MMORPGS more as combat games than Role playing ones. Many of them tried to add elements from Real RPGs but since they were created for commercial purposes they failed.
Originally posted by Rattrap Most people around didnt know what roleplaying is , some even thought it is some kind of kinky sexual perversion
With the way the roleplayer community acted on the first roleplay server I was on I wouldn't blaime people for thinking that. I went there to try roleplaying and have since avoided it after what the majority of the 'roleplayers' there were into.
I've been roleplaying for three years and I'm guessing it died before that. To me roleplaying was the most fun about an MMO (of course in combination with gameplay). But I guess I was roleplaying by myself lol. (and will continue to do so)
Originally posted by ssstupido anyway, if you cant roleplay on EVE, bad for you, i am having a great time doing it
You can find roleplay on EVE in a sort of "text MUSH" style if you look hard enough, just like you can find it in any game if you look hard enough. On my last few days in EVE, I went to an Amarr prayer rally sponsored by PIE, and it was one of the best roleplaying things I have seen, especially given that the tools were so primitive.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I think it happaned because of elitist roleplayer who always criticzed anyone who would start roleplaying.
Anyone encounter a gank squad in UO of players who "roleplayed" bandits, would always come by this one bridge and demand a tax or death Most roleplayers would scoff at that and comment how it's just an excuse to gank people, as if people needed to roleplay to gank lol. Basically too many roleplayers somehow got it into their heads that PvP is the anti roleplay.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Its odd. Ive had great success with RPing in the mmorpg Im in. Mind you I wont mention the name of the mmorpg because everytime I say a mmorpg has rpers, they dissapear lol. Sorta a odd curse.. same way when I join guilds in mmorpgs they dissapear if I leave them. As long as I stay in the guild tho they thrive... odd.. Lol ok pondering is over. Anycase Rping is alive and well.
Originally posted by Gorukha I think it happaned because of elitist roleplayer who always criticzed anyone who would start roleplaying.
Anyone encounter a gank squad in UO of players who "roleplayed" bandits, would always come by this one bridge and demand a tax or death Most roleplayers would scoff at that and comment how it's just an excuse to gank people, as if people needed to roleplay to gank lol. Basically too many roleplayers somehow got it into their heads that PvP is the anti roleplay.
It is the anti-roleplay. It is used as an excuse. Only specially tailored tabletop games incorporate player on player combat. RPGs are about complimentary teams and skills, coming together to overcome a non player opponent or series of situations and challenges.
Speaking of roleplay the charecter I made last night got a huge welcoming. I made a giant Robotic Minotaur. Everyone was looking at me like Id come up with this totaly new ideal. Sheesh I thought it was natrual. Then I ran into a Robotic Ram. So I have this group of Mythological Robots growing up. Very nice. We have a Chimera, Iron Minotaur, Iron Goat, Iron Caldisa and so on. Not sure where the Robotic duck fits in hehe. Hes sorta... quirky. When you hear a mighty QUAAAACK! it doesnt exactly inspire fear.. Haha gota love a good rp session that makes you laugh!
Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by EThanC
One character per account. One server for all subscribers. The players, their guilds, and their policies hold the power to bring the planet into a new age of utopian enlightenment and brotherhood, or devastate the countryside, burn every city in sight, and self destruct the planet itself into a million pieces, permanently killing every player character in the game and ending the storyline. Sooo.......if we nuke the planet on the third day you guys are gonna what?.......shut the servers down? (I had to ask lol, I'ma stinker) Server Message: Sorry everyone, Divergence is now closed because the "holy buttmunch clan" has destroyed the known world with a salvo of nuclear fire. Personally, I'm anxious to see what people decide to do with our game. Me too! Sounds like it could be highly destructive and messy. If that isn't real roleplay, I don't know what is. www.divergence-online.com
The planet isn't "explodable" until long after the second year of launch, and the sequel can't launch until after it's gone or at peace.
The Holy Buttmunch clan isn't welcome in our game. We know all about these guys... jumping from game... destroying planet after planet... It just ain't gonna happen, nobody destroys my planet but me!
Roleplay is a state of player mind. Alot of people are playing a MMORPG for various reasons, some for a few hours of entertainment, some to level grind to become eligable for better stuff, and some want to immerse themselves in the game world and/or character. To roleplay, a desire to be an actor/actress is needed. For example, during the filming of the movie Gettysburg the actors would emerge from the makeup tent into a campsite comprised of re-enactors living in civil war conditions. The movie actors said it was easy to get into their character roles, once they emerged from the makeup tent it felt like they were actually there. The make believe world of Hollywood easliy transformed itself into the reality becouse of the environment. Alot of game developers try to make this occur, but it is the little things that suspend reality. Walk through a zone in Quenos or Freeport and what do you see/hear? Do you see/hear vendors hawking their wares, see someone getting their tooth pulled, see a servent scurry by with their arms full of produce just purchased from the marker? Ever see a bustling market, gamblers throwing dice against a wall, ever walk through the docks and see a vendor selling fish, someone repairing nets, someone pissing in the water, a whore motioning you over? Basically, all those little things that would go on in life are not seen in a MMORPG. All you see are NPC's standing around waiting to give you your next quest. To provide an actual roleplay environment a developer would need to program in basic needs of the NPCs, so that the NPC has a purpose and will perform various actions at various times, not just do the same thing over and over. Problem is, doing that utlizes processing resources and does not sell the next expansion. Once a RPG'er immerses themself in the game world they waunder around astonished at the realism. Then the game system has to be changed, cause it suspends belief in the fantasy world. Nobody gets hits 10 times with a twohanded sword, doing 100 damage each time, and lives past the first strike. Nobody sneaks between 2 guards at a door without some distraction to pull them from their posts. Nobody heals that chopped off limb and makes it whole. Its basically not marketable to the non-roleplay gamers, who want to log in and just play/enjoy themselves. It's kind of like carebear and PvP, hard to integrate with other playstyles. So developers give it a shot, but a really glossed over shot.
I am surprised when people say EVE is about roleplay. I have played EVE, it is not about roleplay. Basically, the character is confined to a pod, cannot leave to eat, have a beer at a pub, doesn't have to sleep, doesn't ever get to leave the ship, doesn't have a crew to interact with, never walks out and visits a NPC. Your avatar is a stagnent picture in the upper left corner of your computer screen that you can minimize when you want to. There is no suspension of belief that there is a working world out there. EVE is about PvP, it is about developing character skills, it is about upgrading equipment, it is about cooperative guild play, it is about going from point A to point B. But who really is this character, besides a set of statistics? What are their likes, dislikes, hopes, fears, hobbies, etc. They have no way to express the charcter personality, they are confined to the pod. It is a far cry from the old Traveler RPG.
Originally posted by EThanC The Holy Buttmunch clan isn't welcome in our game.
All groups of players that rely upon resources outside the scope of the game can become "Holy Buttmuchers," because ultimately, they only care about what is in their guild's interest. They have no reason to care about other subscribers, only their own subscribers.
Just be careful that you don't let the madmen run the assylum. Subscribers pay you, not these guilds. Subscribers trust you, and not these guilds. Its also your responsibility as a developer to give every subscriber a place, whether the guilds want to include them, or not.
Even CCP has realized that there needs to be a developer generated conflict to get player groups to interact with the rest of the subscribers, which is why they are doing factional warfare.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Everquest happened. Grind is machine gameplay.. robot gameplay. Grind means no adventure, no adventure means no real roleplay. Developers with imagination are held back and required to resort to code mechanics, treadmill mechanics, grind numbness. It all ties in to profit.. minimal work to create crappy grinding looping gameplay, subscription fees to pay through the endless grinding of mindless 'content'.. while it's not actually content, it's anti-content. It's one thing copied over and over, to make the player repeat the same thing.. it's a sorry excuse for a lack of content, lack of imagination.
You'll have roleplay when we start getting better MMOGs. Keep your eye on Mythic's WAR. I can't say if it will be great roleplay or not, I don't know.. but I have a feeling it's going to provide more adventure than the sorry grinds that are out on the market today.. like WoW.
I will say though, that Guild Wars, and EVE provide a nice game atmosphere to roleplay in. With guild wars you can go through the game areas with a group of your roleplay friends... whether they be IRL roleplay friends or internet roleplay friends. You do explore in guild wars PVE, so it's left up to your imagination.. but you probably won't find roleplayers in the districts, you have to bring your own to the game . EVE is so massive and open ended that you can roleplay how you want to if space is your thing. You can find plenty of roleplayers in EVE.
Hero's Journey is another to keep your eyes on for good RP. Well in anycase glad the Quaacccck! of doom made you laugh. Hehe sure made me laugh. Hrmm just met a guy called Raven 21. Odd fellow. We were out patrolling a demolished city when this shadow goes overhead. Didnt see a thing. Suddenly theres a burst of dust ahead of us and we know someone of something is there. Step*dust flies up, step*more dust. Im petrified even though im a ten foot tall minotaur with foot thick armor. Whatever it is, its big... That to me folks is Rp. When a even inspires thought. Hehe by the way the shadow turns out to be some flying giant bat. Odd hero. Sorta a 10 foot mutant bat guy. Not sure what his name was. His 6 foot long rifle came in handy though.
Originally posted by Rattrap Most people around didnt know what roleplaying is , some even thought it is some kind of kinky sexual perversion
You can blame the kinky perverted roleplayers for that. On the WoW RP servers you could log on and go to any alliance tavern/town and see people doing that kind of roleplay. It was usually the only kind of roleplay you could find on the RP servers, a bunch of horny people who wanted to bone elves. With this came screenshots of the kind of that goes on with roleplayers behind closed doors.. and the rest of the internet laughed.
Look, it's like this... roleplaying requires imagination. You either get together with roleplay friends and roleplay, or you don't. Any game that provides emote ability, party window, and a world ot play it provides the capacity for roleplay. Like always, RP is up to you.. the roleplayer. Turn off global/general chat, and roleplay with your roleplay friends.. end of story. There is simply too much crying about wanting some magical roleplay game mechanic, but that can't happen, because no mechanic can give you an imagination. This is the end all be all of the roleplayer complaints... nobody is stopping you, go do it, or don't... it's your choice, and always has been.
Look, it's like this... roleplaying requires imagination. You either get together with roleplay friends and roleplay, or you don't. Any game that provides emote ability, party window, and a world ot play it provides the capacity for roleplay. Like always, RP is up to you.. the roleplayer. Turn off global/general chat, and roleplay with your roleplay friends.. end of story. There is simply too much crying about wanting some magical roleplay game mechanic, but that can't happen, because no mechanic can give you an imagination. This is the end all be all of the roleplayer complaints... nobody is stopping you, go do it, or don't... it's your choice, and always has been.
If I wanted to go out dressed up like a superhero or a zombie, there is nothing stopping me. There is also nothing stopping people from calling me a freak, because people do not do that sort of thing.
Unless of course it is a costume party, in which case wearing a costume to be something that you are not is encouraged.
So what would someone do if they went to the costume party in a Superman costume, and all they found are people who are dressed like they do everyday? They are also lauging at Superman's wierd getup amongst themselves. They don't say it to Superman's face, but when he glances around, he sees people avoiding him, and acting as they would if they met this guy in the Superman getup on the street, and not at a costume party.
Maybe Superman asks someone, "why isn't everyone dressed up like I am?"
He simply says, "nobody is going to kick us out just because we don't want to dress up in funny ways. This isn't about the costumes. Its about meeting new people, having fun, drinking the punch, and hearing the music. We don't need a costume to do that, because how can we express who we really are, and have others know us for who we really are, if we can't be ourselves?"
Superman replies, "this is a costume party though. The whole point of it is to become something else that you can't be. You can be yourself 364 days out of the year. In fact, you have no choice but to be you everywhere but occasions like this, when its okay to pretend to be Superman."
He says in response, "what gives you the right to cast judgement on me, and all the other good people here?"
Superman replies, "because the hosts said for us to dress in costume, and they decorated the place and did everything here around the premise that people would dress in costume. I'm doing my part, why aren't you all?"
He says in response, "we are comfortable in being ourselves, and we contributed our entrance fee, and we are being polite, and not causing trouble. Its not like we are threatening you, but we just don't want to hang around freaks who refuse to be about what we are about."
Superman replies, "so what is the point in coming here, when you could do the same things in a bar, or at another party? I didn't come here to be around people looking like they do every other day. I came here to be around people playing make-believe, and to dress like Superman."
The fellow replies, "Dude, you aren't Superman, so why even bother to put forth the impression that you are? I really don't see the point in dressing up like a freak, and nobody needs an excuse to dress like a freak. I could do it anywhere, and you can go play out your Superman fantasy anywhere. Nobody is stopping you. But when you try and pass yourself off as Superman, expect to be treated like the dork you are."
Superman then replies, "This party sucks then. I thought it would be something different, where people actually put forth some effort to make-believe. But all I see are a bunch of people who really do not care about being something different, and expressive."
The man replies, "do you think you are 'better' than us, simply because you are so much more 'expressive' in your lame attempt to act like Superman? Just for your information dude, the party is fine. It is obvious to everyone here that it is you who has the problem, and I suggest you leave if you don't like this scene, and maybe seek some therapy."
The moral of this story is that it is not Superman's fault that the costume party gave the costume a cold shoulder. So when we say that there is nothing stopping roleplay, there is nothing stopping anyone from roleplaying anywhere, at any time, in any game, or any place outside of computer games.
But we don't do it anywhere, at any time, in any game, or any place. We do not, because make-believe is considered to be strange, ankward, and something to be avoided when going about most things in this world. Roleplaying is a lie, and the more the liar demands the lie be taken as true, the more absurd and insane he or she sounds.
That is why we have special places and special events to roleplay, and play make-believe. Things like costume parties, and MMOs, where we give the lies and absurdity an audience, for their sake, and our own sake.
But if we get the cold shoulder for dressing in costume at a costume party, then there is no place we can dress in costume in public.
Just like if we get the cold shoulder for roleplaying in a roleplaying game, then there is no place we can really roleplay in public.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
'Superman replies, "because the hosts said for us to dress in costume, and they decorated the place and did everything here around the premise that people would dress in costume. I'm doing my part, why aren't you all?"'
Here is where I disagree with your post. I have never believed that graphical MUDs were particularly designed for role-play. At least, not the sort of active roleplay where you have your character behave as if he or she were in the actual world being portrayed by the MMO devs. The visual componant of graphical MUDs makes them *innately* unsuitable to highly immersive roleplay IMO, much the same way movies cannot convey the same sort of immersiveness that a book can achieve. Simply put, the mind is better at imagining things on its own when not limited by visual reality.
For that reason, if I were to want to seriously RP, I would log on to a text-based game, such as a MUSH, and play there. On a MUSH, you must type out everything you do, but the reward is that you are limited only by your imagination and what seems plausable in the world in which you play.
I have never looked to graphical MUDs to be a place in which to RP. The only "roleplay" going on is that you are playing a character in a game. You are not, however, ACTING. There is little or no real imagination needed, as the visuals supply most everything.
I would like to see more efforts at improving RP in MMOs, though, and think that some future games may make strides in that direction.
Comments
That is why roleplay is a balance issue. Having one piece of equipment, one race, one class, or one skill better than all the rest at a certain job doesn't give players roleplaying freedom. Instead, it creates a bunch of clone miners piloting Covetors, the same clone traders piloting Iteron Vs, the same clone pirates piloting Vagabonds and Pilgrams with no diversity amongst the lot of them. It is just doing the best combo of equipment, or race, or class, or skills; and what really in the end makes you any more special or unique than the other 10,000 people doing the same thing?
If you wanted to be the best healer on your server, and Elves get a bonus for healing just for being Elves, what race would you pick, and what makes you any different than the 10,000 other Elf healers who are doing the exact same things you are doing?
Nobody wants to roleplay a gimp, but there isn't much room to express your uniqueness by doing the same FOTM build everyone else is doing. People roleplay to put forth a unique twist on the mundane game, but its hard to do when you are eitther FOTM, or SOL.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That is why roleplay is a balance issue. Having one piece of equipment, one race, one class, or one skill better than all the rest at a certain job doesn't give players roleplaying freedom. Instead, it creates a bunch of clone miners piloting Covetors, the same clone traders piloting Iteron Vs, the same clone pirates piloting Vagabonds and Pilgrams with no diversity amongst the lot of them. It is just doing the best combo of equipment, or race, or class, or skills; and what really in the end makes you any more special or unique than the other 10,000 people doing the same thing?
what makes me special? just me, my actions, my decisions. you see? there are a lot of possibilities. for my gaming style it may be better to mine on a covetor, but since it requires a lot of skills to fly, for another miner it will be better to train for a retriever or an apocalypse.
for me it may be better the iteron 5, but for some people it may be better the caldari transports, since it can be shield tanked and leave all low slots for cargo expanders/speed.
for me the vagabond maybe the best pirating ship, but for many other people the best could be the crow, or the ishtar.
in the end what makes you special or diferent from the rest are your decisions. and that is roleplaying. taking the decisions your character would take.
if you think everybody flyes the same ships you are very mistaken. there are many reasons other than "flavor of the month" to decide what to train for.
if you think there is one race, one skill, one ship... better than the rest, you dont know about EVE. first thing everybody will tell is that there is no I-WIN botton, no best ship.
anyway, if you cant roleplay on EVE, bad for you, i am having a great time doing it
Ryzom has a decent amount of RP, but not so much on the free trial island (Ruins of Silan).
-----------
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
One character per account.
One server for all subscribers.
The players, their guilds, and their policies hold the power to bring the planet into a new age of utopian enlightenment and brotherhood, or devastate the countryside, burn every city in sight, and self destruct the planet itself into a million pieces, permanently killing every player character in the game and ending the storyline.
Personally, I'm anxious to see what people decide to do with our game.
If that isn't real roleplay, I don't know what is.
www.divergence-online.com
www.Divergence-Online.com
I think that you try to compare modern MMOs with Pen and paper RPGs that inspired computer game designers.
Actually role playing has nothing to do with MMORPGs since game designers just took the skill mechanics and hit points from Pen and paper games and transfered them to online games.
I like that you respect name restrictions and the behavior of your character and i encourage You to do so, but there is no Dungeon Master to verify and encourage this and many other aspects of your role playing Character, that they should change the story line according to your desicions and actions (spoken and combat) as a member of the party you play with and the role you have in it.
Pen and paper Games had to do with You and Your Role as a party member and not only as a character with skills and attributes that gains levels.
Online RPGs have no real people as dungeon masters that can actually create stories for you and your party to play. Just static quests that they don't alter the story line if You fail to complete them. You just have to try again and again.
There was no competition and loot mania between party members in Pen and Paper RPGs.
But the real power of Pen and Paper games was that they had internal confrontations between what are your views as a moral entity of a fantastic person and what you must do as a member of the party that you live in. Changes to Your alignment or Your party's affected quests skills and storyline in a way which only a Human DM could understand and implement.
I think of MMORPGS more as combat games than Role playing ones. Many of them tried to add elements from Real RPGs but since they were created for commercial purposes they failed.
You can find roleplay on EVE in a sort of "text MUSH" style if you look hard enough, just like you can find it in any game if you look hard enough. On my last few days in EVE, I went to an Amarr prayer rally sponsored by PIE, and it was one of the best roleplaying things I have seen, especially given that the tools were so primitive.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Anyone encounter a gank squad in UO of players who "roleplayed" bandits, would always come by this one bridge and demand a tax or death
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
Shop here
1st: Roleplaying is STRONGER than ever.
2nd: Roleplayers are not a majority of players, so when you have millions of players, you can't honestly expect even 10% of them to roleplay.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
The planet isn't "explodable" until long after the second year of launch, and the sequel can't launch until after it's gone or at peace.
The Holy Buttmunch clan isn't welcome in our game. We know all about these guys... jumping from game... destroying planet after planet... It just ain't gonna happen, nobody destroys my planet but me!
Me is say!
[maniacal laughter]
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!1
[/maniacal laughter]
www.Divergence-Online.com
All groups of players that rely upon resources outside the scope of the game can become "Holy Buttmuchers," because ultimately, they only care about what is in their guild's interest. They have no reason to care about other subscribers, only their own subscribers.
Just be careful that you don't let the madmen run the assylum. Subscribers pay you, not these guilds. Subscribers trust you, and not these guilds. Its also your responsibility as a developer to give every subscriber a place, whether the guilds want to include them, or not.
Even CCP has realized that there needs to be a developer generated conflict to get player groups to interact with the rest of the subscribers, which is why they are doing factional warfare.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You'll have roleplay when we start getting better MMOGs. Keep your eye on Mythic's WAR. I can't say if it will be great roleplay or not, I don't know.. but I have a feeling it's going to provide more adventure than the sorry grinds that are out on the market today.. like WoW.
I will say though, that Guild Wars, and EVE provide a nice game atmosphere to roleplay in. With guild wars you can go through the game areas with a group of your roleplay friends... whether they be IRL roleplay friends or internet roleplay friends. You do explore in guild wars PVE, so it's left up to your imagination.. but you probably won't find roleplayers in the districts, you have to bring your own to the game
Look, it's like this... roleplaying requires imagination. You either get together with roleplay friends and roleplay, or you don't. Any game that provides emote ability, party window, and a world ot play it provides the capacity for roleplay. Like always, RP is up to you.. the roleplayer. Turn off global/general chat, and roleplay with your roleplay friends.. end of story. There is simply too much crying about wanting some magical roleplay game mechanic, but that can't happen, because no mechanic can give you an imagination. This is the end all be all of the roleplayer complaints... nobody is stopping you, go do it, or don't... it's your choice, and always has been.
If I wanted to go out dressed up like a superhero or a zombie, there is nothing stopping me. There is also nothing stopping people from calling me a freak, because people do not do that sort of thing.
Unless of course it is a costume party, in which case wearing a costume to be something that you are not is encouraged.
So what would someone do if they went to the costume party in a Superman costume, and all they found are people who are dressed like they do everyday? They are also lauging at Superman's wierd getup amongst themselves. They don't say it to Superman's face, but when he glances around, he sees people avoiding him, and acting as they would if they met this guy in the Superman getup on the street, and not at a costume party.
Maybe Superman asks someone, "why isn't everyone dressed up like I am?"
He simply says, "nobody is going to kick us out just because we don't want to dress up in funny ways. This isn't about the costumes. Its about meeting new people, having fun, drinking the punch, and hearing the music. We don't need a costume to do that, because how can we express who we really are, and have others know us for who we really are, if we can't be ourselves?"
Superman replies, "this is a costume party though. The whole point of it is to become something else that you can't be. You can be yourself 364 days out of the year. In fact, you have no choice but to be you everywhere but occasions like this, when its okay to pretend to be Superman."
He says in response, "what gives you the right to cast judgement on me, and all the other good people here?"
Superman replies, "because the hosts said for us to dress in costume, and they decorated the place and did everything here around the premise that people would dress in costume. I'm doing my part, why aren't you all?"
He says in response, "we are comfortable in being ourselves, and we contributed our entrance fee, and we are being polite, and not causing trouble. Its not like we are threatening you, but we just don't want to hang around freaks who refuse to be about what we are about."
Superman replies, "so what is the point in coming here, when you could do the same things in a bar, or at another party? I didn't come here to be around people looking like they do every other day. I came here to be around people playing make-believe, and to dress like Superman."
The fellow replies, "Dude, you aren't Superman, so why even bother to put forth the impression that you are? I really don't see the point in dressing up like a freak, and nobody needs an excuse to dress like a freak. I could do it anywhere, and you can go play out your Superman fantasy anywhere. Nobody is stopping you. But when you try and pass yourself off as Superman, expect to be treated like the dork you are."
Superman then replies, "This party sucks then. I thought it would be something different, where people actually put forth some effort to make-believe. But all I see are a bunch of people who really do not care about being something different, and expressive."
The man replies, "do you think you are 'better' than us, simply because you are so much more 'expressive' in your lame attempt to act like Superman? Just for your information dude, the party is fine. It is obvious to everyone here that it is you who has the problem, and I suggest you leave if you don't like this scene, and maybe seek some therapy."
The moral of this story is that it is not Superman's fault that the costume party gave the costume a cold shoulder. So when we say that there is nothing stopping roleplay, there is nothing stopping anyone from roleplaying anywhere, at any time, in any game, or any place outside of computer games.
But we don't do it anywhere, at any time, in any game, or any place. We do not, because make-believe is considered to be strange, ankward, and something to be avoided when going about most things in this world. Roleplaying is a lie, and the more the liar demands the lie be taken as true, the more absurd and insane he or she sounds.
That is why we have special places and special events to roleplay, and play make-believe. Things like costume parties, and MMOs, where we give the lies and absurdity an audience, for their sake, and our own sake.
But if we get the cold shoulder for dressing in costume at a costume party, then there is no place we can dress in costume in public.
Just like if we get the cold shoulder for roleplaying in a roleplaying game, then there is no place we can really roleplay in public.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
'Superman replies, "because the hosts said for us to dress in costume, and they decorated the place and did everything here around the premise that people would dress in costume. I'm doing my part, why aren't you all?"'
Here is where I disagree with your post. I have never believed that graphical MUDs were particularly designed for role-play. At least, not the sort of active roleplay where you have your character behave as if he or she were in the actual world being portrayed by the MMO devs. The visual componant of graphical MUDs makes them *innately* unsuitable to highly immersive roleplay IMO, much the same way movies cannot convey the same sort of immersiveness that a book can achieve. Simply put, the mind is better at imagining things on its own when not limited by visual reality.
For that reason, if I were to want to seriously RP, I would log on to a text-based game, such as a MUSH, and play there. On a MUSH, you must type out everything you do, but the reward is that you are limited only by your imagination and what seems plausable in the world in which you play.
I have never looked to graphical MUDs to be a place in which to RP. The only "roleplay" going on is that you are playing a character in a game. You are not, however, ACTING. There is little or no real imagination needed, as the visuals supply most everything.
I would like to see more efforts at improving RP in MMOs, though, and think that some future games may make strides in that direction.