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Why are NDA Violations so common?
RemyVorender
Member RarePosts: 4,006
It's quite simple really.
Years back game developers used to pay people outside of the company to test their product for them, and provide feedback and bug reports. Slowly, over time, companies started to use BETA as a way to hype their games, but they were very selective about who they picked.
Nowadays, companies use BETAs as nothing more than a marketting ploy. Even offering beta slots for pre-orders and contests. Today, any kid with mom's credit card can hop into a beta and start breaking NDA's like there's no tomorrow. If you are wondering why this behavoir is so commonplace, you need look no further.
Game developers and their marketting teams have no one to blame but themselves for the sad state of the industry.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Comments
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Don't click here...no2
Don't bo so cavalier about it. You could be sued if the company decided it was worth their time to pursue litigation.
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Don't click here...no2
Originally posted by ianubisi
Don't bo so cavalier about it. You could be sued if the company decided it was worth their time to pursue litigation.
Im not advocating NDA breaking but what you are saying is a bit on the extreme, A billon dollar company like Blizzard won't take the time to sue gold farming companys making MILLIONS off of THEIR product and you think a mmo company would take one single person who gave a shit review of their beta and sue them for everything they have? Dont think so.
They can find out everything about you. You have no idea what a court with a subpeona can do. You're not nearly as anonymous as you think you are.
They can't sue gold farmers because while it breaks the EULA, the only contracted element of your EULA is the service they provide. They can legally revoke your ability to play, but they cannot pursue damages.
A non-disclosure agreement, on the other hand, is a totally different matter. It's a legally binding contract in which you are provided sensitive information which you are not allowed to divulge to anyone else. If you break this contract, you can be help liable for damages. A creative legal mind can put you in a world of hurt, for very little effor ton their behalf. All they have to do is file a complaint and you'll be enjoying the civil courts up close and personal.
They probably won't. But if they do, they can make your life a living hell. All it takes is a lawyer who is bored enough to pursue it.
They can find out everything about you. You have no idea what a court with a subpeona can do. You're not nearly as anonymous as you think you are.
Dont think so, sorry. That leans into invasion of privacy, which is more than enough for a counter-claim.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Just a few of so many ways to stay anonymous...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/11/14/doityourself_internet_anonymity/
http://www.http-tunnel.com/html/
http://www.secure-tunnel.com/
http://www.wardriving.com/
http://www.wardrive.net/
http://www.proxy4free.com/
http://www.cybercafes.com/
http://www.anonymizer.com/
The illusion of security can often be more dangerous than no security at all. Feel free to try it out and break the law.
Break a NDA? Me? Nevar!
"Years back game developers used to pay people outside of the company to test their product for them, and provide feedback and bug reports. Slowly, over time, companies started to use BETA as a way to hype their games, but they were very selective about who they picked."
When exactly was this?
The first game I beta'd was Rabbit Jack's casino on Quantum Link in 1985/1986. A bit after that I beta'd a semi mmo type game with actual graphics.. for the same company. I signed up and I got picked.. wasn't paid etc.
For UO I had to send OSI $1 or something like that to cover the cost of shipping.
I was picked for what they called phase .5 for EQ1 and wasn't paid for that either.
I beta tested Anarchy Online for free.. in fact the only game I really remember not beta testing was Asheron's Call 1.
I beta tested some other single player games as well. Forget the name of one it was a Space Sim where the guy that played Ash in the evil dead movies did the voice.
I was never paid for any of that.. in fact many I was only picked for because I had a broadband connection back then. Which was somewhat rare it seems at the time.
Anyway... I think what changed was they invite more people. There are more people out there signing up and many of them just want to play for free. Don't care about the game at all... or even just want to find ways to cheat etc...
I just don't agree with this used to pay people to test theory.. because it wasn't ever my experience.
Did you learn all of this from Law and Order?
Seriously, if someone breaks an NDA by saying a game "sucks" for whatever reason, a company is never going to persue legal action. Now, if a tester takes and sells important programming or gaming data and sells it to a rival company, this is where the NDA could have some teeth.
As a cop in Southern California, I have had probable cause for a suspect having kiddie porn and have had trouble getting a warrant...
Regal
No. I'm a consultant and I have to deal with non-disclosure agreements all the time. In almost any case, where you may actually break the agreement by saying "they suck", most companies aren't going to do a damned thing. Quite true.
The point is not whether they may or may not. The point is that you have broken the agreement, a binding agreement, that makes you liable for damages that become a matter of interpretation. What's the point of putting yourself in this situation?
As a cop, you should know damned better than to suggest that people should disregard the law simpy because it may be hard to prosecute. Shame on you.
The illusion of security can often be more dangerous than no security at all. Feel free to try it out and break the law.
Can you please explain to me how all those methods are just "illusions of security"? I guess all these hackers listed here are in jail, because being anonymous isn't possible.
http://www.zone-h.org/component/option,com_topatt/Itemid,48/
The point is not whether they may or may not. The point is that you have broken the agreement, a binding agreement, that makes you liable for damages that become a matter of interpretation. What's the point of putting yourself in this situation?"
Because you are talking about something totally different.
When I work as a 3rd party I am first interviewed to make sure I can do what needs to be done. I won't even know what "project" this is for at that stage. When the company decides they want to hire me I have to sign NDA forms among other things. The point their being I actually sign something.
Just because someone fills out a beta on the internet doesn't even confirm they are who they say they are. When it became standard to download client data rather than having it mailed... I have never even had a company confirm that I live where I say I do.
Or that I am who I say I am...
So what they are going to trace my IP... to find out I access the internet from a public access point.
And exactly what are they going to take me to court for because I said their game sucked... That I somehow caused them to lose money on a project that isn't even in retail yet?
I actually find it quite rediculous to even have this discussion.
And um .. no I don't do consultations for other companies.
I actually am a freelance artist. Believe it or not I have to sign NDA's quite often for projects I work on. Totally different than beta testing a MMO...
How the heck you can say "it is totally different" when THEY ARE BOTH NDAS.
It is the exact same document you sign for your work, you need to be of legal age to partecipate in betas with a NDA for most part and electronic contracts are as bit valid as paper ones.
They will not move for something trivial, but even saying in a message board "your game sucks" is a damage of image for the game and company. How big? that can be speculated, but surely SOME people might believe that and lose faith not only in the game but the company as well, if that is not a damage, i do not know what is.
They have all your datas on their databases, if you lied on all fronts, you *MIGHT* be safe. It all depends on how tenacious the company wants to be.
I agree that in most of the cases, they will not move a finger, but it is also true that if they do, they will make it certain the infringer is punished to the extent of the law.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Yes, they really can. It doesn't happen, because in general it isn't worth their time and money, but they CAN.
Your IP address is logged every time you enter a game, you know. So was the IP address you used to sign up for the beta. So is the IP address of every login you make to your email address.
If you want to claim someone else violated your email, you'd better have regular public IP use of that email account to back it up, or something similar. And you'd better have masked your home IP very well if you even once logged into the game from home - most people cannot route their IP through enough locations that it is totally untraceable.
Almost everything you do on the internet leaves a fingerprint that can be tracked back to you. You are NOT anonymous. All it takes is a court order to open a few doors, and everything you have done in recent history on the net is an open book.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
Yes, they really can. It doesn't happen, because in general it isn't worth their time and money, but they CAN.
Your IP address is logged every time you enter a game, you know. So was the IP address you used to sign up for the beta. So is the IP address of every login you make to your email address.
If you want to claim someone else violated your email, you'd better have regular public IP use of that email account to back it up, or something similar. And you'd better have masked your home IP very well if you even once logged into the game from home - most people cannot route their IP through enough locations that it is totally untraceable.
Almost everything you do on the internet leaves a fingerprint that can be tracked back to you. You are NOT anonymous. All it takes is a court order to open a few doors, and everything you have done in recent history on the net is an open book.
You forget that not everyone lives in the US. For starters in most(all?) EU countries law prohibits ISP´s from keeping long term logs of what their customers have been doing so tracking IP down would be rather difficult.
Secondly if it was tracked they still would need to prove it was you using the computer to sign the deal and this is just to make the NDA actually mean something. Though I have to say im not that sure deal signed over internet would have any real legal value here in any case.
Either way as you say actually trying to sue someone would just cost them too much time and money and wouldnt really accomplish anything in the end.
No. I'm a consultant and I have to deal with non-disclosure agreements all the time. In almost any case, where you may actually break the agreement by saying "they suck", most companies aren't going to do a damned thing. Quite true.
The point is not whether they may or may not. The point is that you have broken the agreement, a binding agreement, that makes you liable for damages that become a matter of interpretation. What's the point of putting yourself in this situation?
As a cop, you should know damned better than to suggest that people should disregard the law simpy because it may be hard to prosecute. Shame on you.
Ahh a "consultant"... Where did I suggest people should run around freely breaking NDA's? I am merely part of the discussion, like you. Don't put words in my post that aren't there, but as a "consultant" I am sure you are only following your training.
Regal