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First person vs Third person, which is more immersive?
So I read a quote from the head of Mythic saying something to the extent that successful MMOs need to be third person. So I have been playing Neocron just for the heck of it. Now yes its a clunky game and its graphics are like circa 2001, but I like it and its skillbased and I am sick of classes. For those of you who have no idea what that MMORPG is its a FPS interface with shooting/psi powers but whether you hit is based on RPG roles. You don't really aim at body parts etc (although your character can hurt specific parts of his body, ie your legs get hurt when you fall and you move slower ) but holding the aiming dot/reticle on the mob increases your accuracy as you hold it on there longer. Skills and weapon quality affect max accuracy and the total time needed to get max accuacy. So basically you gotta track your opponent with the mouse and you can't necessarily just pop a corner and expect to hit unless your gun/skills make you aim super fast, but you do need to have something in your sights or you just waste a shot.
Anyway as I am running around in this game it occurs to me that for an MMORPG I feel more immersed. Aiming and such makes me feel more involved, especially when I am using a sniper rifle and zooming in and out and trying not to have the hills obscure my shot etc. The first person POV makes it seem much more like I am looking around the place, rather than just doing some camera orbit. Now Neocron has a third person POV too, and since its really an RPG it is functional for the shooting portion. But I dunno, the FP POV seemed more fun. I don't think its the lack of autoattack or target lock because I could compare the two POV with essentially the same gameplay.
At the same time I really do kinda like seeing my guy.
Anyway as I am running around in this game it occurs to me that for an MMORPG I feel more immersed. Aiming and such makes me feel more involved, especially when I am using a sniper rifle and zooming in and out and trying not to have the hills obscure my shot etc. The first person POV makes it seem much more like I am looking around the place, rather than just doing some camera orbit. Now Neocron has a third person POV too, and since its really an RPG it is functional for the shooting portion. But I dunno, the FP POV seemed more fun. I don't think its the lack of autoattack or target lock because I could compare the two POV with essentially the same gameplay.
At the same time I really do kinda like seeing my guy.
Comments
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I prefer third person mainly because first person usually allows one to see the nasty bits of a game up close. Like blurry overstretched textures, the insides of objects that lack collisions, etc.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
First person view feels so clumsy, and it doesn't feel immersive. When i walk down the street, my view bounces up and down, up and down, tilts a bit to one side, then to the other. First person view have a hard time capturing this feeling, which makes you feel like a floating box.
In first person, it is most certainly not like you are looking through your own eyes. It's instead, like you're squinting one-eyed through a telephoto lens. Our eyes have peripheral vision, which allows us to see not just a tiny square in front of us, but all around us, in about 180 degrees. Your character, therefore, should see way more of the world than you can see on a 19" (or whatever it is) video screen, and you just can't see all of that when you are in 1st person mode. The screen is not wide enough. In 3rd person, however, you have zoomed out enough that you, the player, can now see everything your character would be able to see (at the cost that, yes, you see a tad bit more than your character could tecnically see -- the part right behind him... I consider this an acceptable drawback and find it to be minor).
Maybe someday, when they have "circlevision 180 degree" monitors that wrap all the way around and are high and low enough to cover my vertical perihperal vision, I'll be able to see enough of the world for it to feel "realistic." Until then, the only way to see about as much of the world as you would really see -- and this makes me feel more immersed -- is to zoom out to 3rd person. So that is what I prefer.
C
The screen is not your eyes... it's a tiny square in front of your eyes. So things have to be different.
IMO, the stark differences between what you see with your real eyes walking down a real street, and what you see on the screen walking down a sim street, are enough my brain is 'jarred' by it.... it feels UN-natural, and hence UN-immersive.
In 3D however, now I'm looking at a scene that I would not ever see in real life, which frees up my brain to not constantly be comparing it to the real world (none of this is conscious by the way), and as a result, I can just get immersed into it game.
C
First, without question.
But after EQ1 had been out for a while and 3rd person became much more user friendly, more people started using it. It's so commonplace now that people would complain endlessly if 3rd wasn't functional. Hell I played to lvl 50 in EQ1 before I started using 3rd person at all.
I'm still banking on an FPS MMO (like Fallen Earth) to bring back that 1st person immersion.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Yes, of course! I forgot that in RL I have the ability to see out of the back of my head. Or just spin my head around 360 degrees while sprinting away from mobs.
/sarcasm off
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
In first person, it is most certainly not like you are looking through your own eyes. It's instead, like you're squinting one-eyed through a telephoto lens. Our eyes have peripheral vision, which allows us to see not just a tiny square in front of us, but all around us, in about 180 degrees. Your character, therefore, should see way more of the world than you can see on a 19" (or whatever it is) video screen, and you just can't see all of that when you are in 1st person mode. The screen is not wide enough. In 3rd person, however, you have zoomed out enough that you, the player, can now see everything your character would be able to see (at the cost that, yes, you see a tad bit more than your character could tecnically see -- the part right behind him... I consider this an acceptable drawback and find it to be minor).
Maybe someday, when they have "circlevision 180 degree" monitors that wrap all the way around and are high and low enough to cover my vertical perihperal vision, I'll be able to see enough of the world for it to feel "realistic." Until then, the only way to see about as much of the world as you would really see -- and this makes me feel more immersed -- is to zoom out to 3rd person. So that is what I prefer.
C
Yes lack of peripheral vision bugs me a lot. Of course if they did have peripheral vision you could actually see alot of your avatar. I also don't like that you essentially move your whole body to look around.
Still third seems so disconnected.
WoW's 1st person is actually really well done. It allows you to run in one direction, while being able to look around while holding leftclick and moving the mouse around. It's seriously like playing a different game in 1st. Try playing around in Silverpine forest or Duskwood in 1st. Hope you have a change of underwear handy!
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
only way il go first person if the graphics are really good (like oblivion)
Originally posted by Wolfjunkie
I prefer third person view.
First person view feels so
clumsy, and it doesn't feel immersive. When i walk down the street, my
view bounces up and down, up and down, tilts a bit to one side, then to
the other. First person view have a hard time capturing this feeling,
which makes you feel like a floating box.
Not so in Neocron. But I see your point, as it is in most games, which is why I hate WoW's first person.
"Kaneda! What...do you see?"
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
Third person. Hands down.
I most certainly do not feel like I'm more immersed in first person, in fact, I highly dislike it. I feel like I'm squinting through something small like a small hole. Not only that, but I get to see more of whats going on around me in third person.
Thats probably the reason why I am not looking forward to Darkfall if it ever comes out, considering that they force you into 1st person view is ridiculous. I like 3rd person view please.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Me personally, I think that a game should have BOTH first perosn view and third person view. Thats why im so hyped about hellgate london.
Just like the game need for speed... I shift to the drivers view whenever im in a race, and i shift to third person view whenever im going around the city.
Point is at one point of the game, you would want to look at the avatar that you have and see how it looks. And on the other, you want to immerse yourself with the environment, and when you want to see the battle in your characters eyes, then switch to FPS. Hellgate has addressed these issues, and im glad that they have noticed that.
Do you guys get the point????
i~ku~ra
Widescreen displays give you a much better POV. Try playing a first-person game in letterbox and then play again on a widescreen display (with a proper resolution) and you'll notice the difference immediately. As these types of displays are becoming ubiquitos on both the PC and consoles (1080i HD) I think the 4:3 display will go away entirely in a few more years.
All that said it boils down to controls. The old RPG I've ever seen that could pull off a first-person viewpoint and not suck is the Elder Scrolls games (Morrowind and Oblivion being the ones I'm thinking of right now). BUT those games both have very FPS-like controls.
In more 'traditional' RPGs and MMOs espeically you have to select things with the mouse to target them. To me, this is the single thing that makes the 3rd person viewpoint work better for these kinds of games as doing this in the first person is very cumbersome and leaves you open to 'miss' a lot of things, especially things happening to your sides or behind you. In a first-person game it makes more sense to use the FPS-like style of having mouse *always* on mouselook and positioning a crosshair over what you want to muck with. With mouselook always on you can turn and look around with great agility, and just clicking stuff to pick it up or activate it feels very natural. With the 'select and activate' style of gameplay usually found in RPGs, mouselook is usually enabled by a button or key that must be held down, you look around, see what you want to fiddle with, release the 'mouselook' key (thus locking your viewpoint in a certain direction which is usually not well suited to anything other than what you're doing), put the pointer over the object, click, hti the 'activate' or whatever button, do whatever, hit the mouselook key, and continue about your business.
MMOGs should have both modes available...I'll always mostly play in third person, but first person pov comes in handy from time to time.