I was thinking just now about some faults some games have with the idea of that players just don't care if they die, due to very light death penalties a certain game gives off. Last thing I want to happen to WAR is that we have such a great game but all of a sudden, people just don't care if they die if a random fight. This has happened to me one too many times in WoW where no one really cares what happens.
I'm not asking for a deduction in experience points, but something that will give people an incentive to stay alive. Especially if I plan on being a healing class to help keep the party moving, I want an incentive for other players to keep an eye on me so I don't become target number 1 for the opposing party, eventually leading to the defeat of the entire party. Right now from the videos I have seen there doesn't seem to be much of a penalty but the videos don't really tell much to begin with.
Anyone have any information?
Comments
Personally I'd like to see a 'sliding' penality that becomes more severe as you gain levels. One of the things that drove me nuts in WoW was that every idiot eventually got to 60. If you played a cornerstone class (Healer or Tank) it became mandatory to keep lists of who to preferentially take in your parties and who to never take along. I'd like to see exp loss in PvE deaths, but only above halfway to the cap, with the last quarter of the levels the penalty being very severe (perhaps loss of all xp earned in the current level).
I would like to see a system that discourages people from dying a lot in PvP as well, both during the level grind and at the cap. One of the great unsung things about DAOC was if you died in PvP and didn't get rezzed, you got booted clear out of the zone or to a very distant bindstone. This made suicide rushes unheard of and rezzers/healers valueable in PvP, instead of the stupid GY zerging crap we have in the battlegrounds in WoW. I'd like to see this PvP death system carried over.
I agree with the idea of being a Healer in WoW. I always got into groups where people didn't care for aggro management and I usually died several times during an instance run with Pick-Up-Groups. Dying in general makes me upset, but most people didn't care and laregly didn't care if I died. Made is very frustrating.
The DoaC penalties seem more ideal for such a PvP-centric game, seeing as most people are going to die numerous times during the game, some form of heavy XP loss seems a little harsh. But nontheless if it proves to be the best solution, more power to the game. Anything to discourage being killed is fine in my book.
Although an XP loss will make some of the jerks gank lower players a lot more, just to see them go through a lot of that again.
I apologize if I was unclear.. I meant to say that I would support a system in which you lost xp from PvE deaths. Also, in DAOC you only lost XP if you released, if you got rezzed you lost no (or very little.. it's been a long time) experiance.
Thus, a good group could grind xp very well because even if someone went down they could be rezzed, whereas a poor group wouldn't hold together long because if you wiped you lost a lot of experiance.
Any good death system only punishes stupidity. Being rezzed should never incur a penalty as it promotes teamwork. PvP deaths discourage suicide tactics but otherwise be a lot softer, you don't want people to get overly frustrated or disourage people from taking risks. That's why I liked the DAOC PvP death system, if your group wiped you got to sit on a teleport pad for five minutes with your friends discussing why you all got killed, or run all the way back across the frontier having the same discussion.
One thing I would also like to see though, for PvP deaths is a black screen, maybe it could say "You are dead" or something like. Suicide scouts are another thing on my list of annoying PvP semi-exploits.
@VideoXPG
Go answer your question yourself, the penalties are pretty much already in stone:
http://feature.mmosite.com/content/2006-08-10/20060810203657273.shtml
There will be looting, but generated.
Of course "hardcore" gamers (that's what they call themselves) wont like that because their world is only black and white. They say no harsh death penalties = no good pvp
I highly disagree and think mythic found a good way to handle death. If they really want harsher penalties they can go play AoC or Vanguard.
I dont understand the need for DP, expecally for PvP. If you compare it to WoW, you die very easy in WoW. I play a rogue and lot of my victoms have no fighting chance. I dont think its fair for them, saying ha, ha. You had no fighting chance against my stun-lock. If there was DP, then there be nothing but turtling in WoW. Example, WSG if my team just turtle the flag, and wait for the Alliance to come and kill them X amout of time so that there DP is so high that they be no match for us, is a bad ideal.
Some of the best matches I had was pushing it to the limit in PvP. I mean if I was fighting a rank 14 warrior who can kill me in 2 crit hits is like one of my favorite matches in the game. I most-likly lose, but in order for me to win, I have to play Perfectly. I have to have total control over the warrior. However if I lose, and have to make it up with some type of DP, then I would left WoW and gone to TFC and CS. What if your play CS, and you die, and you end up watching your teamate cowarding by your spawn point while there 20 secs left in the game. I think its kind of the same thing with WoW, when you see the battle doesnt go your way and start flee other then to see if the underdogs can overcome.
However, I dont like to die in WoW. Each time I die I get piss and figure out what I can do better. Yes some of the maps like AB or AV, rez kind of get anoying while trying to cap the flag. However I watch my friend play Dark Age of Camelot. I watch him go to some fort where he had to wait for mages to teleport him to RvR. Then I watch him die, and went back to town on his fraction side. Take a horse back to the fort. Wait 5 mins for the mage to Teleport him. All in All took about 20 mins to get back in to battle. Not Worth the time or effort if you just want to play a solid PvP game if you ask me. That why I never played DoaC.
But if people get a kick out of time sink DP. Good for them. However I would get annoyed if I played CS or TFC and whenever I die, my computer shuts off, then restart ever 20 mins. People might say then Dont Die. But I dont get a kick out of outnumber my oppenents where they dont have a fighting chance so I can avoid DP.
I disagree that harsh death penalties discourage PvP. Games like UO and EVE will probably always be around and they have some of the harshest death penalties. I think it's the combination of harsh death penalties with only being able to get items with a .000001% drop rate in a 4 hour instance and harsh death penalties that would break a game.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
like FFXI. I was reading some of these posts and I came up with an idea
(probably bad and/or not harsh enough), what is War takes a concept of
DP from CoH/CoV with debt except take it a step further. You die you
incure debt but you don't gain XP or even level till the debt is payed
off. In CoH you can still level in debt but it just takes forever to do
so. It is just such a fustrating thing to deal with who would want to
die? Am I wrong is that not enough of a deturance to prevent people for
caring of living or dieying? The only downside about DP in general but
unavoidable are those who just like to kill people for the mear
pleasure to put those in a fustrating time of death. I also play a
healer in CoH and I roleplay my character(s) quite well and I get upset
when someone dies because it was my fault that someone on my team died
and I would hate for that to happen. I to would want to be assured that
there is a good reason for there to be a healer to be there to keep
characters alive and not have to expeiance a horrible death pelnalty.
As with Item Drop DP actually stops the average gamer from indulging in PvP. Even worse for the way the RvR is arranged in WAR if there is even a moderatly heavy DP people WILL NOT defend cities being sieged if they have lower numbers. This will lead to Ganking becoming normal, people only killing what they outnumber/overpower and running from whatever outnumbers/overpowers them.
Actually yes you can with simple PvP BUT not with RvR. Mythic wants huge battles and intense fights but they also want you to think before you attack. I think they did it right, not too soft (like WoW) and not too hard (like UO).
RvR needs life, not people grinding for gear and XP.
Hell yea down with the death penalties there Dumb...
situation BIG WAR: Problem death penatlies
Lets see i can join this great battle and spend the next 4 days getting back the xp i lost or i can just continue lvling and gain a few without lossing everything i have hmm tough choose
IF there is no death penalty then you may as well be playing a FPS IMO. I dont think to penalty should be overly severe but death should have a bit of a sting to it....
Looting corpses is going to give me UO flashbacks
I thought when WOW and no DP came out great....but after playing a while the game lost something I was use to in other games
THE WELL TO LIVE
in WOW you do not care if you die...so what big deal...going to cost me 45 seconds and few coins
in EVE and EQ death ment some thing
in EVE the lost of millions plus even your entire toon if you did not get a clone plus up to years of skill training if you did not keep the clone skill level cap up( only had to buy a clone with a higher skill cap) but you be surpise how many did not keep the clone up unless they where at war with someone
in EQ death ..you had to get your stuff back first of all...big pain..lost huge exp (could get some back with raise) but you could end up losing hours of game time just to get back where you were before the death. Then there were people who die 3 to 4 times gettting their corpse back that had their stuff on it...even more lost of time.
Death should mean something. It adds risk to the game and there by adds more joy to the game for getting something done.
PVP should not equal lost of exp...way to many gankers on online games for that
Let me ask you a serious question. Say you have a great one on one fight with someone. Finally you kill him. Do you get more or less enjoyment in the fight because he gets some extra penaly like losing property or experince or this something else you want? Would a great fight be ruined if you didn't get to put post fight hurt on him?
Also, would you prefer pvp with full player looting?
That way, you get to fight, don't have to worry about working off a death penalty, yet will still affect the battle because for everyone getting killed off, lets the other side have the numerical advantage. It forces you to play smart rather than kamikaze.
I have read exactly 3 posts in these forums and 2 things are obvious:
1.) Those who have never played a game above the mediocrity and mass appeal build of WoW (which I actively play), or even have only played WoW
2.) Those who have never played a quality Mythic product, most recognizeably DAoC which won numerous accolades for it's gameplay and systems and was only missing the lore and polish of a history like Warhammer.
Those who get it, will play WAR, those who don't will continue to play the watered down mass appeals and/or the gankers delights.