I don't think that anybody would ever argue with you that every group of people regardless of religion or ethnicity has a capacity for violence..everybody knows this, so why try to punch the point home so much? The problem is that we are talking about a specific group(the muslims) are continually use their faith as the excuse to kill people on a massive scale. The citings of the inquisition (catholic) Stalin(athiest) and the rape of Nanjing(japanese-Shinto, Buddhist, christian) are three completely separate occurances, what we are talking about is the continual attacks by Muslim Radicals. I don't see why you have chosen to argue about everybody having a capacity for violence if set off in the correct manner, because nobody in their right mind would ever dispute that. The issue right now is that a very specific group of people are continually massacring people in the name of religious ideology
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Remember guys, the roles were reversed not that long ago. During the crusades, it was the Christians who were the bloodthirsty zealots.
For a long time, officials of every stripe were using any excuse they could to round up an army to invade Islamic held lands. There was even a so called childrens crusade, thousands of kids following this 14 year old boy who claimed he had a vision. Unsurprisingly, the few that survived the grueling march were enslaved.
The muslims beat back nearly every such attack, but at a price. The constant pressure resulted in their decline from what could have become a modern superpower. Captured technologies gave the European culture a massive boost to the flagging European culture, finally lifting them out of the dark ages the Catholic church had been keeping them in. (This last is not a jibe, a pope all but outlawed any new research of any kind)
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by Aelfinn Remember guys, the roles were reversed not that long ago. During the crusades, it was the Christians who were the bloodthirsty zealots. For a long time, officials of every stripe were using any excuse they could to round up an army to invade Islamic held lands. There was even a so called childrens crusade, thousands of kids following this 14 year old boy who claimed he had a vision. Unsurprisingly, the few that survived the grueling march were enslaved. The muslims beat back nearly every such attack, but at a price. The constant pressure resulted in their decline from what could have become a modern superpower. Captured technologies gave the European culture a massive boost to the flagging European culture, finally lifting them out of the dark ages the Catholic church had been keeping them in. (This last is not a jibe, a pope all but outlawed any new research of any kind)
Again, comparing events that occured centuries ago is a bit outrageous. It would be akin to refering to Germans as Nazis, actually, it would be even worse...as the campaign against the jews is a much more recent event. I do not deny that the crusades and the Catholic church were completely out of line...but you have to take into account that it happened more than 500 years ago. How does that have any basis for comparison in a modern society? It seems to me that it's just a psuedo intellectual's attempt to grasp at straws to fuel debate about the two religions...What the Christians were doing was not supported in any way by their doctrine or texts...what the Muslims ARE doing IS supported by it...there is no denying that the Quran teaches conversion by violence...it is clearly stated in the text...nowhere in the Bible does it state that.
Of course, that would spark a completely different debate about the doctrines of the two religions and whether or not they share the same God and a multitude of other things....ahh how I adore internet religious debates.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Rwanda is the most Christian country in Africa, so I'm afraid you'll have to revise this one.
The IRA was not comprised of Buddhists, in case you didn't know. ETA, Central American deathsquads, the Khmer Rouge ... look around, barbaric nastiness is part of the human condition around the world.
The firebombing of Dresden and the vaporization of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was accomplished by Christians.
So, you might want to get off the horse, it's looking a little tall for you.
Yeah ok....so it still doesnt take much to piss off a muslim.Say 1 bad thing about the socalled peaceful religion of islam and they go into a rage about it.
Ya know everything you said was intelligent until you got to that last snide little remark.
A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
If you ask me they need to grow some thick skin and suck it up like the rest of us do EVERYDAY.
So big deal the muslims are pissed again.Pretty soon we are all going to roll our eyes and just tell them to shut up.
Not everyone in the world gives a sh*t about their damn religion.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Rwanda is the most Christian country in Africa, so I'm afraid you'll have to revise this one.
The IRA was not comprised of Buddhists, in case you didn't know. ETA, Central American deathsquads, the Khmer Rouge ... look around, barbaric nastiness is part of the human condition around the world.
The firebombing of Dresden and the vaporization of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was accomplished by Christians.
So, you might want to get off the horse, it's looking a little tall for you.
Yeah ok....so it still doesnt take much to piss off a muslim.Say 1 bad thing about the socalled peaceful religion of islam and they go into a rage about it.
Ya know everything you said was intelligent until you got to that last snide little remark.
A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
If you ask me they need to grow some thick skin and suck it up like the rest of us do EVERYDAY.
So big deal the muslims are pissed again.Pretty soon we are all going to roll our eyes and just tell them to shut up.
Not everyone in the world gives a sh*t about their damn religion.
We have groups in America who have blown up abortion clinics and murdered doctors. They are christian groups. We also have the KKK which is responsible for a near genocide in this country. Also a christian organization.
i agree, muslims say more outlandish things about christians than are said about them. christianity is the most mocked religion in the world but we don't runaround with bombs strapped to our kids and send them into shopping malls to commit suicide.
Originally posted by Puoltry A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
And there's your point of emphasis. So there are unreasonable Muslims? Wow, that's revelatory, there are certainly no unreasonable people of any other faith.
You mean there are no people you would call Christians who do that crazy shit. But there are plenty who call themselves Christians that would. Tim McVeigh called himself a Christian. Should the Muslim world judge Christians by him? Uncounted clinic bombers, polygamists, child molestors and serial killersr call themselves Christians ... should the Muslim world judge Westerners by them?
You see a violent protest organized by unscrupulous assholes for their own political purposes, and act like that's something new or unique to any country, creed or race. Nobody with the slightest familiarity with history or modern geopolitics can take that assertion seriously, because it's not serious. People riot and run amok damned near every day somewhere, mostly NOT in the Muslim world and mostly for causes they take just as seriously as Pakistanis or Saudis.
Ok, now I've seen comments about abortion clinic bombers and Tim McVeigh. See, we arrest those folks. We have a reasonable amount of control over our whackos. And we at least make an effort to bring them to justice. The problem, in the middleast, is that there are some nations who can't or won't exercise control of the little proxy armies running around in their backyard. Again, it's like some are determined to bring up ancient history, or make bad comparisons, in order to change the subject. Why? Noone is doing muslims (or arabs, etc.) a favor by trying to steer conversation away from Islamic extremism. After all, they're butchering moderate muslims as well as non-muslim middle-easterners.
Originally posted by lardmouth Ok, now I've seen comments about abortion clinic bombers and Tim McVeigh. See, we arrest those folks. We have a reasonable amount of control over our whackos. And we at least make an effort to bring them to justice. The problem, in the middleast, is that there are some nations who can't or won't exercise control of the little proxy armies running around in their backyard. Again, it's like some are determined to bring up ancient history, or make bad comparisons, in order to change the subject. Why? Noone is doing muslims (or arabs, etc.) a favor by trying to steer conversation away from Islamic extremism. After all, they're butchering moderate muslims as well as non-muslim middle-easterners.
You are obsolutely correct. I like what Bill Mahr said on the subject.
"We don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. If your religion requires the subjegation of women and forces them in a bee-keeper suit, then I'm sorry, you have a shitty religion."
I paraphrased, but that is the giest of it.
However, the point I was making by bringing up the Klan and abortion clinic bombers was to counter what some posters here commented about christians in recent history not being fanatical killers like these muslims are today.
Originally posted by KzinKiller Originally posted by Puoltry A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
And there's your point of emphasis. So there are unreasonable Muslims? Wow, that's revelatory, there are certainly no unreasonable people of any other faith.
You mean there are no people you would call Christians who do that crazy shit. But there are plenty who call themselves Christians that would. Tim McVeigh called himself a Christian. Should the Muslim world judge Christians by him? Uncounted clinic bombers, polygamists, child molestors and serial killersr call themselves Christians ... should the Muslim world judge Westerners by them?
You see a violent protest organized by unscrupulous assholes for their own political purposes, and act like that's something new or unique to any country, creed or race. Nobody with the slightest familiarity with history or modern geopolitics can take that assertion seriously, because it's not serious. People riot and run amok damned near every day somewhere, mostly NOT in the Muslim world and mostly for causes they take just as seriously as Pakistanis or Saudis.
You know what is really "revelatory"?
That you actually BELEIVE that muslims are peaceful.
Keep on defending them it shows your true self.Go ahead and throw around some more words like "geopolitics"and dig up the past from a thousand years ago if it makes you sleep better at night.
I know EXACTLY what you are from all the postings you have put up your not fooling anyone.BTW why dont you fall off of YOUR horse and do everyone a favor and break your stinkin neck.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Originally posted by Puoltry Originally posted by KzinKiller Originally posted by Puoltry A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
And there's your point of emphasis. So there are unreasonable Muslims? Wow, that's revelatory, there are certainly no unreasonable people of any other faith.
You mean there are no people you would call Christians who do that crazy shit. But there are plenty who call themselves Christians that would. Tim McVeigh called himself a Christian. Should the Muslim world judge Christians by him? Uncounted clinic bombers, polygamists, child molestors and serial killersr call themselves Christians ... should the Muslim world judge Westerners by them?
You see a violent protest organized by unscrupulous assholes for their own political purposes, and act like that's something new or unique to any country, creed or race. Nobody with the slightest familiarity with history or modern geopolitics can take that assertion seriously, because it's not serious. People riot and run amok damned near every day somewhere, mostly NOT in the Muslim world and mostly for causes they take just as seriously as Pakistanis or Saudis.
You know what is really "revelatory"?
That you actually BELEIVE that muslims are peaceful.
Keep on defending them it shows your true self.Go ahead and throw around some more words like "geopolitics"and dig up the past from a thousand years ago if it makes you sleep better at night.
I know EXACTLY what you are from all the postings you have put up your not fooling anyone.BTW why dont you fall off of YOUR horse and do everyone a favor and break your stinkin neck.
I'll play along. I believe that the vast majority of muslims are peaceful (like the vast majority of people) and like all groups they have lunatics among them that manipulate the beliefs of others to gain control and attempt to drag them into their personal ideology. So what's that say about me? What's my true self?
Originally posted by //\//\oo They are living proof that whatever their religions is: It must be evil. Islam isn't evil. but those people give Islam the image of some massive satanic cult. Whenever they have violent protests, they should just napalm the crowd; these idiots are propagating more idiots by brainwashing their own children. No, that's not a racist comment, since there are middle-eastern people that are Christians/Jews etc. No, I'm not saying that real Muslims should be killed, but that those violent extremists (that aren't real Muslims) are the bane of modern society and that we'd be better off with them dead.
WOW man, i feel it's like you're posting for me, QFT
Originally posted by DabbleWe have groups in America who have blown up abortion clinics and murdered doctors. They are christian groups. We also have the KKK which is responsible for a near genocide in this country. Also a christian organization.
The KKK claims to hold "christian fundamentals'
If by that, they mean that they think Jesus is the son of God...then maybe they do, but this does not make them Christian. They persecute Catholics, Jews, and pretty much everything that isn't a white person who is wearing a white hood. Saying that the KKK is a Christian organization is like saying that the Nazi's were a christian organization. Do they identify with some Christian beliefs? yup...does it make them a christian organization? hell no. The KKK was actually started by confederate civil war veterans who wanted to go back to the old ways of doing things...it had nothing to do with religion.
Those "christians" are not following a basic christian fundamanetal of loving your neighbor and evangelizing by acting through and like Christ...perhaps they go to church every sunday, but they do not practice basic Christian doctrin....this applies for both the abortion clinic bombers and the KKK
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by DabbleWe have groups in America who have blown up abortion clinics and murdered doctors. They are christian groups. We also have the KKK which is responsible for a near genocide in this country. Also a christian organization.
The KKK claims to hold "christian fundamentals'
If by that, they mean that they think Jesus is the son of God...then maybe they do, but this does not make them Christian. They persecute Catholics, Jews, and pretty much everything that isn't a white person who is wearing a white hood. Saying that the KKK is a Christian organization is like saying that the Nazi's were a christian organization. Do they identify with some Christian beliefs? yup...does it make them a christian organization? hell no. The KKK was actually started by confederate civil war veterans who wanted to go back to the old ways of doing things...it had nothing to do with religion.
Those "christians" are not following a basic christian fundamanetal of loving your neighbor and evangelizing by acting through and like Christ...perhaps they go to church every sunday, but they do not practice basic Christian doctrin....this applies for both the abortion clinic bombers and the KKK
And the exact same thing can be said about these Islamic wackos. That was the point I was making.
Originally posted by Dabble Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by DabbleWe have groups in America who have blown up abortion clinics and murdered doctors. They are christian groups. We also have the KKK which is responsible for a near genocide in this country. Also a christian organization.
The KKK claims to hold "christian fundamentals'
If by that, they mean that they think Jesus is the son of God...then maybe they do, but this does not make them Christian. They persecute Catholics, Jews, and pretty much everything that isn't a white person who is wearing a white hood. Saying that the KKK is a Christian organization is like saying that the Nazi's were a christian organization. Do they identify with some Christian beliefs? yup...does it make them a christian organization? hell no. The KKK was actually started by confederate civil war veterans who wanted to go back to the old ways of doing things...it had nothing to do with religion.
Those "christians" are not following a basic christian fundamanetal of loving your neighbor and evangelizing by acting through and like Christ...perhaps they go to church every sunday, but they do not practice basic Christian doctrin....this applies for both the abortion clinic bombers and the KKK
And the exact same thing can be said about these Islamic wackos. That was the point I was making.
I figured as much...I tried to infer in my post that the Muslim teachings differ in that they specifically say that conversion by violence is okay. If you want me to find the specific passage then I will. To me, it's a fundamental difference in doctrin that makes Christian radicals and Muslem Radicals two completely different beasts. While Christian radicals who provoke and partake in violence are inherently going against the teachings of their own religion...Muslems are not.
It has been almost a year since I read from the Quran...and a little less than that since I actually studied it. I am not trying to say that there is nothing wortwhile in the Quran, or that Muslems are inherently bad people...I'm trying to say that the doctrin in and of itself lends to violent interpretations that cannot easily be refuted by what may be the peacefull majority. There are very many bad people that call themselves Christian, and very many bad people who call themselves Muslem. I am not Muslem so I cannot truly say how their community feels about these people calling themselves such...But when you have something like the Pope's comments, and EVERY Muslem nation in the middle east begins to break out in massive violent protest...It's difficult to be convincing that these people are the minority.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The problem is that these radical Muslims are all uneducated rednecks who live in a society that is still 100s of years behind our society. If they had our technology they would be too busy playing video game and watching porn to bother with the pope and danish news papers.
I am not quite sure what the problem is with the UK muslims though. I figure they are just stupid.
I haven't had time to read all the postings in this topic, so I apologise if someone else has already said this, but I think it is relevant:
I didn't read the popes speech but apparently it was about peace, he quoted some historic person to make a point.
He has been deliberately quoted out of context to upset muslims the world over, the media services who did that are the ones who need to make a public apology and set the record straight, but they won't because they have an agenda other than peace.
Now the pope finds himself in the position of having to apologise for something he didn't do, but he will because he does want peace, the warmongers will claim that he is accepting that he did wrong, they will also see his apology as a victory against him and everything he represents.
You know what is really "revelatory"?That you actually BELEIVE that muslims are peaceful.Keep on defending them it shows your true self.Go ahead and throw around some more words like "geopolitics"and dig up the past from a thousand years ago if it makes you sleep better at night.I know EXACTLY what you are from all the postings you have put up your not fooling anyone.BTW why dont you fall off of YOUR horse and do everyone a favor and break your stinkin neck.
Sorry, I'm neither naive nor prejudiced enough to think that a billion people fit so neatly into a single stereotype. So long as you approach this as if all Muslims believed, acted, or felt the same way, your understanding of these issues will be as shallow as the stereotype you're buying into.
Originally posted by Draenor To me, it's a fundamental difference in doctrin that makes Christian radicals and Muslem Radicals two completely different beasts. While Christian radicals who provoke and partake in violence are inherently going against the teachings of their own religion...Muslems are not.
Really? So that business in the bible about a man who lays with a man should be stoned to death isn't violent? Or that if you break the sabbath you should be put to death. That isn't violent? Yes, it's the Old Testament, but still, it is your bible too.
And, by the way, did you ever, EVER hear any of the Christian leaders in the US condemn the murders of abortion docters and the bombing of clinics? Quite the contary, Falwell and company were distantly sympathetic.
Originally posted by Dabble Originally posted by Draenor To me, it's a fundamental difference in doctrin that makes Christian radicals and Muslem Radicals two completely different beasts. While Christian radicals who provoke and partake in violence are inherently going against the teachings of their own religion...Muslems are not.
Really? So that business in the bible about a man who lays with a man should be stoned to death isn't violent? Or that if you break the sabbath you should be put to death. That isn't violent? Yes, it's the Old Testament, but still, it is your bible too.
And, by the way, did you ever, EVER hear any of the Christian leaders in the US condemn the murders of abortion docters and the bombing of clinics? Quite the contary, Falwell and company were distantly sympathetic.
Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
That is the quote that you are talking about...I doubt that very many people who site that quote have ever actually read it...as it does not say that man shall put man to death, it simply says that they wil be put to death. It's completely up to interpretation as to whether this means that they will spend an eternity in hell, or if they will be put to death on this Earth. There are several other allusions to death and hell in the Bible but nowhere does it say that man is to judge his fellow man for being a homosexual. If you want to get into the death penalty and how this contradicts the Bible then I will...but I would rather stay away from such a far off topic. You need to note the context with which this is said in the Bible, the bible is not just a book that was thrown together, it was very carefully written...many people would be quick to say that it contradicts itself...and if you read the English version it's much easier to falsely accuse the Bible of contradictions...the way you find out for yourself whether or not it's an actual contradiction is by going back to the origional Hebrew in which it was written. There are MANY facets of the Bible that cannot be recognized in English due to language gaps.
Another major difference is: How many gays do you see being killed by christians because they are gay? Not a whole hell of a lot...how many people do you see being put to death by Muslims because they don't hold the same beliefs...a hell of a lot. It's a capital crime to convert from Islam in most Arab nations...punishable by DEATH.
As for abortion bombings...there is always great public outcry when a right wing extremist group bombs or kills anything in the name of God...I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Again it's a difference in Doctrine.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I also happen to believe that he was right on this precise topic.
Anyone wanting a bloodshed over "words" is seriously ill. How many peoples say that the Pope is old and senile? I don't want to kill them. I will laugh, tease them and the Pope at the same time.
Civilisation...you have to be able to bear ANY comment, no matter how right or wrong, and react in an appropriate way. A good Iman would have make a joke about the Pope and the fact he didn't take his medecine or something. Someone who want bloodshed for what this old man say? Especially that...let's face it...Mahommet was an angry berserker seeking glory throught logic! Mahommet wasn't a good man, he was a conqueror, and if he was above average on the battlefield, he was a mastermind on the "mind-games-level", he raise an empire for himself instead of getting crucified for everyone love, you clearly can see the difference between a real devoted folk (Jesus) and some opportunist(Mahommet). Jesus was some kind of hyppie, a cool hyppie, but a hyppie nonetheless...Jesus would prolly have join Greenpeace, if it would have been existing back then...
Mahommet bring a LOT of logic, yet it was evil, it was crude, where a man can't rape his wife, because she belong to him...and so on. He move the local society backward on many aspects, as you can see from the very reaction these peoples have.
I support the Pope...for "cultural" reasons. Just like I support "Catholic" teaching in North America schools, not because I believe in the religion soo much as I believe in our "Cultural assets". This religion of love and self sacrifice on the Cross, this is part of us, in a cultural way, not only on a "religion way"...
But again, these "muslims" also want the blood of some journalists...when I see that...I want to...(remember a warning from the staff of this site so I will stop here, as "massive hatred" warning...yet...it is just a "practical" solution to the hatred they are showing us...if someone want to kill us, can't we answer similarly? If someone has the right to ask for our blood, can't we...)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
I don't think that anybody would ever argue with you that every group of people regardless of religion or ethnicity has a capacity for violence..everybody knows this, so why try to punch the point home so much? The problem is that we are talking about a specific group(the muslims) are continually use their faith as the excuse to kill people on a massive scale. The citings of the inquisition (catholic) Stalin(athiest) and the rape of Nanjing(japanese-Shinto, Buddhist, christian) are three completely separate occurances, what we are talking about is the continual attacks by Muslim Radicals. I don't see why you have chosen to argue about everybody having a capacity for violence if set off in the correct manner, because nobody in their right mind would ever dispute that. The issue right now is that a very specific group of people are continually massacring people in the name of religious ideology
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Remember guys, the roles were reversed not that long ago. During the crusades, it was the Christians who were the bloodthirsty zealots.
For a long time, officials of every stripe were using any excuse they could to round up an army to invade Islamic held lands. There was even a so called childrens crusade, thousands of kids following this 14 year old boy who claimed he had a vision. Unsurprisingly, the few that survived the grueling march were enslaved.
The muslims beat back nearly every such attack, but at a price. The constant pressure resulted in their decline from what could have become a modern superpower. Captured technologies gave the European culture a massive boost to the flagging European culture, finally lifting them out of the dark ages the Catholic church had been keeping them in. (This last is not a jibe, a pope all but outlawed any new research of any kind)
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Again, comparing events that occured centuries ago is a bit outrageous. It would be akin to refering to Germans as Nazis, actually, it would be even worse...as the campaign against the jews is a much more recent event. I do not deny that the crusades and the Catholic church were completely out of line...but you have to take into account that it happened more than 500 years ago. How does that have any basis for comparison in a modern society? It seems to me that it's just a psuedo intellectual's attempt to grasp at straws to fuel debate about the two religions...What the Christians were doing was not supported in any way by their doctrine or texts...what the Muslims ARE doing IS supported by it...there is no denying that the Quran teaches conversion by violence...it is clearly stated in the text...nowhere in the Bible does it state that.
Of course, that would spark a completely different debate about the doctrines of the two religions and whether or not they share the same God and a multitude of other things....ahh how I adore internet religious debates.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I'm sorry, could someone remind me in what way Stalin, the Crusades, Mao, the IRA, WWII, etc. are relevant?
lol..
qft y'all
The IRA was not comprised of Buddhists, in case you didn't know. ETA, Central American deathsquads, the Khmer Rouge ... look around, barbaric nastiness is part of the human condition around the world.
The firebombing of Dresden and the vaporization of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was accomplished by Christians.
So, you might want to get off the horse, it's looking a little tall for you.
Yeah ok....so it still doesnt take much to piss off a muslim.Say 1 bad thing about the socalled peaceful religion of islam and they go into a rage about it.
Ya know everything you said was intelligent until you got to that last snide little remark.
A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
If you ask me they need to grow some thick skin and suck it up like the rest of us do EVERYDAY.
So big deal the muslims are pissed again.Pretty soon we are all going to roll our eyes and just tell them to shut up.
Not everyone in the world gives a sh*t about their damn religion.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
The IRA was not comprised of Buddhists, in case you didn't know. ETA, Central American deathsquads, the Khmer Rouge ... look around, barbaric nastiness is part of the human condition around the world.
The firebombing of Dresden and the vaporization of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was accomplished by Christians.
So, you might want to get off the horse, it's looking a little tall for you.
Yeah ok....so it still doesnt take much to piss off a muslim.Say 1 bad thing about the socalled peaceful religion of islam and they go into a rage about it.
Ya know everything you said was intelligent until you got to that last snide little remark.
A cartoon pisses off a muslim,saying ANYTHING negative about the islamic fascist state they are trying to create pisses them off.
Again i dont see christians of any sect IN THIS CURRENT DAY AND AGE going around blowing up sh*t because someone made an offhanded remark.
If you ask me they need to grow some thick skin and suck it up like the rest of us do EVERYDAY.
So big deal the muslims are pissed again.Pretty soon we are all going to roll our eyes and just tell them to shut up.
Not everyone in the world gives a sh*t about their damn religion.
We have groups in America who have blown up abortion clinics and murdered doctors. They are christian groups. We also have the KKK which is responsible for a near genocide in this country. Also a christian organization.
i agree, muslims say more outlandish things about christians than are said about them. christianity is the most mocked religion in the world but we don't runaround with bombs strapped to our kids and send them into shopping malls to commit suicide.
Defiant
You mean there are no people you would call Christians who do that crazy shit. But there are plenty who call themselves Christians that would. Tim McVeigh called himself a Christian. Should the Muslim world judge Christians by him? Uncounted clinic bombers, polygamists, child molestors and serial killersr call themselves Christians ... should the Muslim world judge Westerners by them?
You see a violent protest organized by unscrupulous assholes for their own political purposes, and act like that's something new or unique to any country, creed or race. Nobody with the slightest familiarity with history or modern geopolitics can take that assertion seriously, because it's not serious. People riot and run amok damned near every day somewhere, mostly NOT in the Muslim world and mostly for causes they take just as seriously as Pakistanis or Saudis.
You are obsolutely correct. I like what Bill Mahr said on the subject.
"We don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. If your religion requires the subjegation of women and forces them in a bee-keeper suit, then I'm sorry, you have a shitty religion."
I paraphrased, but that is the giest of it.
However, the point I was making by bringing up the Klan and abortion clinic bombers was to counter what some posters here commented about christians in recent history not being fanatical killers like these muslims are today.
That is all.
You mean there are no people you would call Christians who do that crazy shit. But there are plenty who call themselves Christians that would. Tim McVeigh called himself a Christian. Should the Muslim world judge Christians by him? Uncounted clinic bombers, polygamists, child molestors and serial killersr call themselves Christians ... should the Muslim world judge Westerners by them?
You see a violent protest organized by unscrupulous assholes for their own political purposes, and act like that's something new or unique to any country, creed or race. Nobody with the slightest familiarity with history or modern geopolitics can take that assertion seriously, because it's not serious. People riot and run amok damned near every day somewhere, mostly NOT in the Muslim world and mostly for causes they take just as seriously as Pakistanis or Saudis.
You know what is really "revelatory"?
That you actually BELEIVE that muslims are peaceful.
Keep on defending them it shows your true self.Go ahead and throw around some more words like "geopolitics"and dig up the past from a thousand years ago if it makes you sleep better at night.
I know EXACTLY what you are from all the postings you have put up your not fooling anyone.BTW why dont you fall off of YOUR horse and do everyone a favor and break your stinkin neck.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
You mean there are no people you would call Christians who do that crazy shit. But there are plenty who call themselves Christians that would. Tim McVeigh called himself a Christian. Should the Muslim world judge Christians by him? Uncounted clinic bombers, polygamists, child molestors and serial killersr call themselves Christians ... should the Muslim world judge Westerners by them?
You see a violent protest organized by unscrupulous assholes for their own political purposes, and act like that's something new or unique to any country, creed or race. Nobody with the slightest familiarity with history or modern geopolitics can take that assertion seriously, because it's not serious. People riot and run amok damned near every day somewhere, mostly NOT in the Muslim world and mostly for causes they take just as seriously as Pakistanis or Saudis.
You know what is really "revelatory"?
That you actually BELEIVE that muslims are peaceful.
Keep on defending them it shows your true self.Go ahead and throw around some more words like "geopolitics"and dig up the past from a thousand years ago if it makes you sleep better at night.
I know EXACTLY what you are from all the postings you have put up your not fooling anyone.BTW why dont you fall off of YOUR horse and do everyone a favor and break your stinkin neck.
I'll play along. I believe that the vast majority of muslims are peaceful (like the vast majority of people) and like all groups they have lunatics among them that manipulate the beliefs of others to gain control and attempt to drag them into their personal ideology. So what's that say about me? What's my true self?
The KKK claims to hold "christian fundamentals'
If by that, they mean that they think Jesus is the son of God...then maybe they do, but this does not make them Christian. They persecute Catholics, Jews, and pretty much everything that isn't a white person who is wearing a white hood. Saying that the KKK is a Christian organization is like saying that the Nazi's were a christian organization. Do they identify with some Christian beliefs? yup...does it make them a christian organization? hell no. The KKK was actually started by confederate civil war veterans who wanted to go back to the old ways of doing things...it had nothing to do with religion.
Those "christians" are not following a basic christian fundamanetal of loving your neighbor and evangelizing by acting through and like Christ...perhaps they go to church every sunday, but they do not practice basic Christian doctrin....this applies for both the abortion clinic bombers and the KKK
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The KKK claims to hold "christian fundamentals'
If by that, they mean that they think Jesus is the son of God...then maybe they do, but this does not make them Christian. They persecute Catholics, Jews, and pretty much everything that isn't a white person who is wearing a white hood. Saying that the KKK is a Christian organization is like saying that the Nazi's were a christian organization. Do they identify with some Christian beliefs? yup...does it make them a christian organization? hell no. The KKK was actually started by confederate civil war veterans who wanted to go back to the old ways of doing things...it had nothing to do with religion.
Those "christians" are not following a basic christian fundamanetal of loving your neighbor and evangelizing by acting through and like Christ...perhaps they go to church every sunday, but they do not practice basic Christian doctrin....this applies for both the abortion clinic bombers and the KKK
And the exact same thing can be said about these Islamic wackos. That was the point I was making.
The KKK claims to hold "christian fundamentals'
If by that, they mean that they think Jesus is the son of God...then maybe they do, but this does not make them Christian. They persecute Catholics, Jews, and pretty much everything that isn't a white person who is wearing a white hood. Saying that the KKK is a Christian organization is like saying that the Nazi's were a christian organization. Do they identify with some Christian beliefs? yup...does it make them a christian organization? hell no. The KKK was actually started by confederate civil war veterans who wanted to go back to the old ways of doing things...it had nothing to do with religion.
Those "christians" are not following a basic christian fundamanetal of loving your neighbor and evangelizing by acting through and like Christ...perhaps they go to church every sunday, but they do not practice basic Christian doctrin....this applies for both the abortion clinic bombers and the KKK
And the exact same thing can be said about these Islamic wackos. That was the point I was making.
I figured as much...I tried to infer in my post that the Muslim teachings differ in that they specifically say that conversion by violence is okay. If you want me to find the specific passage then I will. To me, it's a fundamental difference in doctrin that makes Christian radicals and Muslem Radicals two completely different beasts. While Christian radicals who provoke and partake in violence are inherently going against the teachings of their own religion...Muslems are not.
It has been almost a year since I read from the Quran...and a little less than that since I actually studied it. I am not trying to say that there is nothing wortwhile in the Quran, or that Muslems are inherently bad people...I'm trying to say that the doctrin in and of itself lends to violent interpretations that cannot easily be refuted by what may be the peacefull majority. There are very many bad people that call themselves Christian, and very many bad people who call themselves Muslem. I am not Muslem so I cannot truly say how their community feels about these people calling themselves such...But when you have something like the Pope's comments, and EVERY Muslem nation in the middle east begins to break out in massive violent protest...It's difficult to be convincing that these people are the minority.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
muslim's dont call for the bombing of churches only muslim extremists (lead by Bin Laden) do.
I am not quite sure what the problem is with the UK muslims though. I figure they are just stupid.
I haven't had time to read all the postings in this topic, so I apologise if someone else has already said this, but I think it is relevant:
I didn't read the popes speech but apparently it was about peace, he quoted some historic person to make a point.
He has been deliberately quoted out of context to upset muslims the world over, the media services who did that are the ones who need to make a public apology and set the record straight, but they won't because they have an agenda other than peace.
Now the pope finds himself in the position of having to apologise for something he didn't do, but he will because he does want peace, the warmongers will claim that he is accepting that he did wrong, they will also see his apology as a victory against him and everything he represents.
Really? So that business in the bible about a man who lays with a man should be stoned to death isn't violent? Or that if you break the sabbath you should be put to death. That isn't violent? Yes, it's the Old Testament, but still, it is your bible too.
And, by the way, did you ever, EVER hear any of the Christian leaders in the US condemn the murders of abortion docters and the bombing of clinics? Quite the contary, Falwell and company were distantly sympathetic.
Really? So that business in the bible about a man who lays with a man should be stoned to death isn't violent? Or that if you break the sabbath you should be put to death. That isn't violent? Yes, it's the Old Testament, but still, it is your bible too.
And, by the way, did you ever, EVER hear any of the Christian leaders in the US condemn the murders of abortion docters and the bombing of clinics? Quite the contary, Falwell and company were distantly sympathetic.
Leviticus 20:13 clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
That is the quote that you are talking about...I doubt that very many people who site that quote have ever actually read it...as it does not say that man shall put man to death, it simply says that they wil be put to death. It's completely up to interpretation as to whether this means that they will spend an eternity in hell, or if they will be put to death on this Earth. There are several other allusions to death and hell in the Bible but nowhere does it say that man is to judge his fellow man for being a homosexual. If you want to get into the death penalty and how this contradicts the Bible then I will...but I would rather stay away from such a far off topic. You need to note the context with which this is said in the Bible, the bible is not just a book that was thrown together, it was very carefully written...many people would be quick to say that it contradicts itself...and if you read the English version it's much easier to falsely accuse the Bible of contradictions...the way you find out for yourself whether or not it's an actual contradiction is by going back to the origional Hebrew in which it was written. There are MANY facets of the Bible that cannot be recognized in English due to language gaps.
Another major difference is: How many gays do you see being killed by christians because they are gay? Not a whole hell of a lot...how many people do you see being put to death by Muslims because they don't hold the same beliefs...a hell of a lot. It's a capital crime to convert from Islam in most Arab nations...punishable by DEATH.
As for abortion bombings...there is always great public outcry when a right wing extremist group bombs or kills anything in the name of God...I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Again it's a difference in Doctrine.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I support the Pope, for "cultural" reasons.
I also happen to believe that he was right on this precise topic.
Anyone wanting a bloodshed over "words" is seriously ill. How many peoples say that the Pope is old and senile? I don't want to kill them. I will laugh, tease them and the Pope at the same time.
Civilisation...you have to be able to bear ANY comment, no matter how right or wrong, and react in an appropriate way. A good Iman would have make a joke about the Pope and the fact he didn't take his medecine or something. Someone who want bloodshed for what this old man say? Especially that...let's face it...Mahommet was an angry berserker seeking glory throught logic! Mahommet wasn't a good man, he was a conqueror, and if he was above average on the battlefield, he was a mastermind on the "mind-games-level", he raise an empire for himself instead of getting crucified for everyone love, you clearly can see the difference between a real devoted folk (Jesus) and some opportunist(Mahommet). Jesus was some kind of hyppie, a cool hyppie, but a hyppie nonetheless...Jesus would prolly have join Greenpeace, if it would have been existing back then...
Mahommet bring a LOT of logic, yet it was evil, it was crude, where a man can't rape his wife, because she belong to him...and so on. He move the local society backward on many aspects, as you can see from the very reaction these peoples have.
I support the Pope...for "cultural" reasons. Just like I support "Catholic" teaching in North America schools, not because I believe in the religion soo much as I believe in our "Cultural assets". This religion of love and self sacrifice on the Cross, this is part of us, in a cultural way, not only on a "religion way"...
But again, these "muslims" also want the blood of some journalists...when I see that...I want to...(remember a warning from the staff of this site so I will stop here, as "massive hatred" warning...yet...it is just a "practical" solution to the hatred they are showing us...if someone want to kill us, can't we answer similarly? If someone has the right to ask for our blood, can't we...)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren