Originally posted by Wakizashi Ok Fadeus, at the risk of incurring your wrath, are you attempting to become a forum mod or something? People are certainly capable of looking up the rules. If they choose to defy them, or be ignorant, I think that is there choice. Let the real mods handle the school-marm stuff.*Prepares for battle*
I am not doing anything out of the ordinary. I do feel the staff here is taking an unjust beating so I am gonna speak up about it. Sorry if you don't feel it's appropriate but I am still going to do it when I feel compelled to.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Im 35 years old and as I said before I think you can say anything as long as you be polite. Im not a refugee nor an elder ,I an an ex SWG player who considers himself with the moral right to give an opinion,positive or negative without being clasified (forced) in a forum section.
At 35 years old, you should know that you don't have a "right" to do anything on these forums, merely a "privilage" upheld by the standards of the organization which runs the forums. Have fun elsewhere, I recommend maturing to your biological age as your first priority.
Originally posted by daeandor Originally posted by Sempayw
Im 35 years old and as I said before I think you can say anything as long as you be polite. Im not a refugee nor an elder ,I an an ex SWG player who considers himself with the moral right to give an opinion,positive or negative without being clasified (forced) in a forum section.
At 35 years old, you should know that you don't have a "right" to do anything on these forums, merely a "privilage" upheld by the standards of the organization which runs the forums. Have fun elsewhere, I recommend maturing to your biological age as your first priority.
So, why is it wrong to attack somebody personally on other forums, or if they are pro-SOE, but posts like this, calling somebody in particular immature, are ok?
Why is it that the typical trolls and flame starters aren't hardly posting on the other forums but instead are looking for fights over here?
The sum total of this forum split is to make THIS forum the new General forum where people can get trolled, post plowed, forum copped, flamed and insulted. And made the safety forum the pro-SOE forum, where rules are STRICTLY enforced.
theres clearly a large number of ppl whi wish to talk about the old swg (the heroes) and then theres the people who comes to mmorpg.com to just talk about the game as we used to do.
I think some ppl put too much meaning into the splitting up
Im 35 years old and as I said before I think you can say anything as long as you be polite.
Im not a refugee nor an elder ,I an an ex SWG player who considers himself with the moral right to give an opinion,positive or negative without being clasified (forced) in a forum section.
And there is the problem isn't it? And the reason you lot where condemned to some dank dungeon of a backwater forum. Personally I think they've been generous.
I don't really follow SWG, nor do I particularly care. I just check the site now and then, and often check the most recent and/or most active thread. Guess what. 9 out of 10 times at least one of them is yet another piece of hate mongering waste of bandwith from the hands of ex SWG players. The horse is already decayed, Stop beating it already.
Polite opinions and an adult discussion are always nice to read, but the SWG Veteran hate mongering is worse then any of the so called fanboi's can do.
As I said, I think they've been generous. I would've just banned you lot.
Originally posted by Belsameth Originally posted by Sempayw
Im 35 years old and as I said before I think you can say anything as long as you be polite. Im not a refugee nor an elder ,I an an ex SWG player who considers himself with the moral right to give an opinion,positive or negative without being clasified (forced) in a forum section.
And there is the problem isn't it? And the reason you lot where condemned to some dank dungeon of a backwater forum. Personally I think they've been generous.
I don't really follow SWG, nor do I particularly care. I just check the site now and then, and often check the most recent and/or most active thread. Guess what. 9 out of 10 times at least one of them is yet another piece of hate mongering waste of bandwith from the hands of ex SWG players. The horse is already decayed, Stop beating it already.
Polite opinions and an adult discussion are always nice to read, but the SWG Veteran hate mongering is worse then any of the so called fanboi's can do.
As I said, I think they've been generous. I would've just banned you lot.
So if there are a bunch of post praising a game should all the authors of the post be banned? They are clearly wasting bandwidth. The horse has been beaten. We have free will. If you don't want to read hate mongering veterans' posts then don't. You are living by double standards. Just because people are unhappy doesn't mean they don't have as much right to their opinion as those who are happy. Just move on if you don't want to read it. Unwad your panties.
Both praise and hate can be fairly valid subjects to post about. It is both the way it is done in and the sheer amount of posts. Sadly the SOE hatemongers come out on top with both, even if blalant fanboyism is just as annoying (and I mean true fanboyism, so I don't mean everybody who has a different view from the hatemongers)
First of all, as to whether a moderator should have deleted the warning email. The answer is yes, absolutely. It clearly breaks our RoC, which Dekron quoted here. If people have an issue with a warning or a ban that they have received, they can email me directly about it at stradden@mmorpg.com I read and reply to user emails when they come into my inbox. That's a part of my job, and frankly, I'd rather talk something out if there's a disagreement ona one-on-one basis. I think everyone can agree that it's always hard to have a conversation with a crowd of people involved.
As to the joking that goes on. Yes, there's a place for it. But not everyone understands that people are joking when they say thigns like that. That's the thing about jokes. There are appropriate places for them. I certainly know a lot of funny jokes I would say to my mother... Doesn't eman I won't tell the jokes, it just means that I will tell them when I'm around people who will find them funny rather than find them to be offensive.
Next, I appologise if the word "disgruntled" put anyone off. I just didn't know how else to describe it from a neutral point of view. That's the key word for me in my job. Neutral. I can't play favorites in any aspect of my job, whether it be the news or the community, and I take great pride in the fact that I do not. I made this decision in what I think is the best possible way for the entire MMORPG.com community. I actually thought that those who wished to voice their repeated opinions on the NGE, SOE, or anything else, would enjoy a place where they could do so. I had hoped that creating a new forum, with them in mind, would be a way to say "Yes guys, we appreciate what you have to say and here's an appropriate place to say it." To my knowledge, that's something that they didn't have before. Similarly, I wanted those people who have decided for whatever reason not to be upset over the changes a place where they could discuss the game. Generally speaking, in all of our forums, that's the point.
The bottom line is that I probably should have created these forums a long time ago. Given each side a voice on what is clearly two different games. I appologise for that. I agonized over what I could do to avoid mass-bannings for various rule-infractions. The General Forums, as you know, have been over-run with that kind of thing and it needed to change. Even so, I recognize that there are valuable things beign said over there, so rather than nuking the whole thing, I chose to leave it open so that people could reply to topics already over there. I had to close it off to new threads so that the new forums would be used.
As to policing this forum in the same way as SWG current. Well, sure, we could do that. But as many people have suggested, the community that you all have built here is unique. I'm not saying that you get a unique set of rules, but I'm saying that we can give some consideration given the forum.
It's not about our relationship with SOE, it's not about our relationship with advertisers in general. I was given no mandate by the site's owners in this decision, other than to simply do my job. The decision to make the two forums was mine. I don't deal with advertisers, and I don't deal with exclusive content. Whether SOE continues to advertise with us or provide us exclusive content is none of my concern.
Look, believe me or don't. That's entirely up to you, but I do ask that before you out and out call me a liar, that you think about whether or not that is justified. I, like many of you, have come to consider MMORPG.com a second home. It's not just a job to me, it's something I agonize over. Many of the replies that I've made throughout the SWG forums over the last few days have been made well after midnight, my time (atlantic), well beyond the time that I'm "off-the-clock". I think that if I didn't feel that way, I would have no business working here at all.
If I wanted to make up lies about things to protect a corporate identity, I wouldn't be working here at a site dedicated to MMORPG players. I'd be out writing spin. MMORPG.com is not a huge corporation. Yes, we've grown over time, and that's thanks to our members. Why would we jeapordize our relationship with our members, who yes, dirve site traffic for the sake of one outside company?
Anyway, I'm done. I'm not going to say that I'm perfect or that the decision was the perfect answer. I'm just saying I did what I thought was the most reasoonable thing at the time.
Originally posted by nthnaoun That is not polite and is trolling. I guess it would be inappropriate to lie, so I will just be blunt. I will not miss you or your trollish posts. I agree with what you said about stating what you want in a polite manner, but you were not polite there and neither are the people you said you like and agree with most of the time.
Rofl, --- You are even funny here as you post and try to insult some people here.
You should be reported for being rude and disrespectful to other people here actually. See, with all that you say and try to do the bottom line is that you will never be in the majority, you will never have good facts or support, you will never have the edge of knowing and hearing people say "Wow the NGE and game is just SUPER!" with all your banter and all your pretend role of being a forum cop you still do not get it.
No matter what there will always be wanna be cops, there will always be the ones that try, but fail. I guess people will just have to figure out which is which on thier own. They do not need your input or anyones to know what has happend here.
The difference between a NGE supporter and a anti-NGEr is that the supporter is always on the defensive, they have no offensive or good things to really show or prove it forward, they hold on to anything they can to hold thier ground with anything positive at all. While the anti-NGEr has more ammo, facts, quotes to just keep moving forward each month... each bug, each issue, each exec saying "Do not make our mistake", -- there is alot of info out there showing and proving where this has gone in the last ten months.
Someone just has to have the sense to look at it, read it and apply common sense to it.
View it as a product of investment, time and money and then make a choice. So far with the numbers over the last 10 months I think it is safe to say people are paying attention.
I mean, if they had to add 5- 10 servers each publish I would not question this... but um, yeah lol... Sorry, it is just not gonna make that lol.
This person is angry, he is mad, he has been treated bad by a company he invested his time in.
All I can hope is that people do not read it for the words, but more so the passion and feelings he ONCE had taken away in the name of someone else needing and promoting a easy version of his loved game.
I get alot of PMs and emails from people that know me, they have commented on how they were able to take someone WHO LOVED this game so much and make him 360 into a complete anti-NGEr. I -at one time promoted this game in ways that I now realize were just foolhardy, I trusted people talking to me directly and I learned from it. I brought people in the game when I could and helped out anyone in game all of the time, from Knight trials to just helping a new guy who had no idea I was a Knight hiding my title. I have given away millions, upon millions of credits to people... free pets and enjoyed the people I played with. I considered my rep on Bria as a very good one and was well respected on that server by BOTH factions, role players and alot of people as I respected them.
It's amazing that doing somthing like the NGE can change all of that overnight almost.
See my first Major in school was marketing, I did not get my computer science degree until after that.
The first thing you do not tarnish is your loyal customer base with any busines because WE are the best salesmen at the best salary.... Free. Once your tarnish us, you have then started the trickle effect.
All of us can say all that we want, call each other names, debate until we are blue in the face. The one FUCKING thing that all of us forget time to time is that WE DID NOT DO THIS TO EACH OTHER... WE DID NOT CHOOSE THIS PATH, it was made for us, forced on us and then turned us all into things and people we are not.
I can be the best ass out there, but this is not me -- I wanted to still be the guy the supported the thoughts and ideals of the game IT COULD HAVE BEEN, not what it turned into. I am glad I am not the only at least.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Stradden *sigh* Ok, I'll say this all again. First of all, as to whether a moderator should have deleted the warning email. The answer is yes, absolutely. It clearly breaks our RoC, which Dekron quoted here. If people have an issue with a warning or a ban that they have received, they can email me directly about it at stradden@mmorpg.com I read and reply to user emails when they come into my inbox. That's a part of my job, and frankly, I'd rather talk something out if there's a disagreement ona one-on-one basis. I think everyone can agree that it's always hard to have a conversation with a crowd of people involved. As to the joking that goes on. Yes, there's a place for it. But not everyone understands that people are joking when they say thigns like that. That's the thing about jokes. There are appropriate places for them. I certainly know a lot of funny jokes I would say to my mother... Doesn't eman I won't tell the jokes, it just means that I will tell them when I'm around people who will find them funny rather than find them to be offensive. Next, I appologise if the word "disgruntled" put anyone off. I just didn't know how else to describe it from a neutral point of view. That's the key word for me in my job. Neutral. I can't play favorites in any aspect of my job, whether it be the news or the community, and I take great pride in the fact that I do not. I made this decision in what I think is the best possible way for the entire MMORPG.com community. I actually thought that those who wished to voice their repeated opinions on the NGE, SOE, or anything else, would enjoy a place where they could do so. I had hoped that creating a new forum, with them in mind, would be a way to say "Yes guys, we appreciate what you have to say and here's an appropriate place to say it." To my knowledge, that's something that they didn't have before. Similarly, I wanted those people who have decided for whatever reason not to be upset over the changes a place where they could discuss the game. Generally speaking, in all of our forums, that's the point. The bottom line is that I probably should have created these forums a long time ago. Given each side a voice on what is clearly two different games. I appologise for that. I agonized over what I could do to avoid mass-bannings for various rule-infractions. The General Forums, as you know, have been over-run with that kind of thing and it needed to change. Even so, I recognize that there are valuable things beign said over there, so rather than nuking the whole thing, I chose to leave it open so that people could reply to topics already over there. I had to close it off to new threads so that the new forums would be used. As to policing this forum in the same way as SWG current. Well, sure, we could do that. But as many people have suggested, the community that you all have built here is unique. I'm not saying that you get a unique set of rules, but I'm saying that we can give some consideration given the forum. It's not about our relationship with SOE, it's not about our relationship with advertisers in general. I was given no mandate by the site's owners in this decision, other than to simply do my job. The decision to make the two forums was mine. I don't deal with advertisers, and I don't deal with exclusive content. Whether SOE continues to advertise with us or provide us exclusive content is none of my concern. Look, believe me or don't. That's entirely up to you, but I do ask that before you out and out call me a liar, that you think about whether or not that is justified. I, like many of you, have come to consider MMORPG.com a second home. It's not just a job to me, it's something I agonize over. Many of the replies that I've made throughout the SWG forums over the last few days have been made well after midnight, my time (atlantic), well beyond the time that I'm "off-the-clock". I think that if I didn't feel that way, I would have no business working here at all. If I wanted to make up lies about things to protect a corporate identity, I wouldn't be working here at a site dedicated to MMORPG players. I'd be out writing spin. MMORPG.com is not a huge corporation. Yes, we've grown over time, and that's thanks to our members. Why would we jeapordize our relationship with our members, who yes, dirve site traffic for the sake of one outside company? Anyway, I'm done. I'm not going to say that I'm perfect or that the decision was the perfect answer. I'm just saying I did what I thought was the most reasoonable thing at the time. Jon Wood
I would accept that had he not deleted my entire thread discussing the topic of moderating and this split. He didn't just delete the posted warning but an entire multi page thread. I can accept that posting warnings violated the RoC. I wasn't aware it was in violation. The rest of the discussion was I think very helpful to the community as a whole and wasn't meant to violate any rules. It was a discussion and a good one on appropriate ways to disagree and the view of how moderation can become heavy handed under a generalized policy.
Then your staff deleted the entire thread on how moderation can become heavy handed because I posted my warning and held a discussion about it.
It is not up to us to decide what is polite or impolite , It is up to us to follow their rules . Whether there is a "whitewash" or not it makes no difference . If you can't follow their rules you have no buisness posting here to be frank . This site is not here for you to base your personal crusade from . It is here for the general mmo gaming public .They are able to offer a service to us , By the advertising they do . This section of their community offers little in regard to their primary source of income ( Existing mmo developers ).
Why do I say so ?
Do any amount of reading in this section , And you will reach one ultimate conclusion . The only game anyone here cares about is SWG . It is stated over and over "It was the only game on the market, that I had an interest in ". I also find it quite interesting , The second this site does something about this never ending argument . (NGEer vs PRe-cuer ) SO many take offence , The same group labeled as the vocal minority . Shows itself for what it is.
Look at any other forum here , No other has as much trolling and /or flaming . Please to every other poster , Do Not Associate the Pre-cu vet as the troll I speak of . I recognize there are a good number of well thought out posts from this side of the field , Free of flaming and trolling . But the ilk I refer to mixes itself in as such , Yet only flames and ridicules . A large number of this type of poster, has lumped itself into the legitimate crowd . These are the people you saw on the suck boards writing nothing but Pre-cu ftw's!!
Im not so sure about this part Mal, sure most of us want Pre-Cu back, but I for one have bought three different MMO's since the NGE and tried two trials that I downloaded via links from this site. The fact that I didnt stay with any of these games just makes it that much more likely that I will try a different one when one comes along that sounds good. I had been planning on roma victor, but it hasnt turned out to be as promising as once thought. Additionally, I read most of the articles and visit several of the other forums on this site, all in an attempt to find a game I enjoy. I also read a whole lot of posts from explayers trying to find a new home, and who are also trying out new games (usually in vain). Anyway, I just thought id throw that out.....
That being said, these guys certainly have a right to do whatever they want and it was probably a good idea to divide the forums up. People that like the current game, for whatever ungodly reason, should be able to ask questions about and discuss it without getting flamed to death.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by jrscott Originally posted by nthnaoun Dekron is right. It was not done politely. It was clearly trolling, not because he said something negative, but because what he said and on the thread he said it. It is hard for you all to see this, because you all hate Smed and SOE.
So instead of letting us make up our own mind whether it was "impolite", he had to erase the evidence in the form of the warning that USED to be posted above and impose his opinion on us. I came out and defended these people, and it becomes more and more apparent I made a major mistake.
If you can't see that there is a whitewash going on here, I truly weep for you.
MMORPG.Com owes us nothing, I admit that. I owe them nothing as well. I've wasted too much time here anyhow. Signing out. One less generator of free content for them to make money from. I'll see some of you around elsewhere.
I truley hope you'll stick around, you're one of my favorite posters here and i'd be sad if you left
I've not made up my mind about whether this was a good move or not, but I believe Stradden when he said he did it with good intentions. I just have to put myself in the Mod's shoes, only they can see the amount of reports and trouble that have come out of our forum, enough that they had to do something apparently. From what i can see so far, the amount of anti-soe/swg posts havent lessened, they're just in a specific place. A place with 3x as many posts and threads as the "other" section.
While I've never heard of any good come from segregating people, I am a bit relieved that there will (hopefully) be less posts here by a few certain someone's that I have to skip over. But it's not like we're confined to our forums and any new person who has been living under a rock and hasnt heard about swg by now will see our forum first and will likely go to where the most posts are. I can see alot of good points about this and hopefully the bad ones, such as how to moderate each forum equally and the favortism percieved, will get ironed out soon.
Originally posted by Temploiter Better solution. Leave General Forums as is, discuss whatever there. New Forum: SW:G Gameplay Discussion - For discussing current gameplay : RoC Strictly Enforced Voila, no community split, NGE questions can be asked and answered in a safe new environment.
Q.F.E. ... if the 'Current' forum becomes 'positive things about Current game only' then MMORPG is doing a terrible disservice to its readers and shooting themselves in the foot for reputation ... because if your reputation is being a hack for gaming companies instead of a source of good objective information, people stop reading you.
This segregation really reeks of "Hack" ... maybe it was with the best intentions, but the impression it leaves is a very poor one.
Originally posted by logangregor The mirage that is freeness of speech.
What mirage? You have the right to pay your $15 for a permit to protest anytime you want. That is your freedom of speech. This is a privately owned website, which makes it a priviledge.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
So, why is it wrong to attack somebody personally on other forums, or if they are pro-SOE, but posts like this, calling somebody in particular immature, are ok?
Why is it that the typical trolls and flame starters aren't hardly posting on the other forums but instead are looking for fights over here?
The sum total of this forum split is to make THIS forum the new General forum where people can get trolled, post plowed, forum copped, flamed and insulted. And made the safety forum the pro-SOE forum, where rules are STRICTLY enforced.
You anti-SOE / SWG guys need to seriously move on with your lives. Seriously...
What mmorpg.com does is provide a means for you all to bitch and moan about a version of a game that has been gone for nearly a year and a half. Then you guys moan about the means by which mmorpg.com provides these boards. The 'old' SWG community may be the most screwed over in mmorpg history, but it is also the most vocal whiners ever to exist.
What mirage? You have the right to pay your $15 for a permit to protest anytime you want. That is your freedom of speech. This is a privately owned website, which makes it a priviledge.
Originally posted by Maxzius um.. pay $15 for a permit to protest where?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Last I checked on the forums over eh hem Officially where you pay 15 and get to voice an oppinion you couldn't post a negative oppinion without it being removed from the "eh Hem" the "Official forum" so not true.
Comments
I am not doing anything out of the ordinary. I do feel the staff here is taking an unjust beating so I am gonna speak up about it. Sorry if you don't feel it's appropriate but I am still going to do it when I feel compelled to.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
*sigh* OP, maybe you're not alone in moving on. This ol' rifleman may have to move on as well, dunno, let's see what happens
So, why is it wrong to attack somebody personally on other forums, or if they are pro-SOE, but posts like this, calling somebody in particular immature, are ok?
Why is it that the typical trolls and flame starters aren't hardly posting on the other forums but instead are looking for fights over here?
The sum total of this forum split is to make THIS forum the new General forum where people can get trolled, post plowed, forum copped, flamed and insulted. And made the safety forum the pro-SOE forum, where rules are STRICTLY enforced.
Temploiter
WDMKR | Incarnate
I think it makes sense to split the forum.
theres clearly a large number of ppl whi wish to talk about the old swg (the heroes) and then theres the people who comes to mmorpg.com to just talk about the game as we used to do.
I think some ppl put too much meaning into the splitting up
brgds
I don't really follow SWG, nor do I particularly care. I just check the site now and then, and often check the most recent and/or most active thread.
Guess what. 9 out of 10 times at least one of them is yet another piece of hate mongering waste of bandwith from the hands of ex SWG players. The horse is already decayed, Stop beating it already.
Polite opinions and an adult discussion are always nice to read, but the SWG Veteran hate mongering is worse then any of the so called fanboi's can do.
As I said, I think they've been generous. I would've just banned you lot.
And there is the problem isn't it? And the reason you lot where condemned to some dank dungeon of a backwater forum. Personally I think they've been generous.
I don't really follow SWG, nor do I particularly care. I just check the site now and then, and often check the most recent and/or most active thread.
Guess what. 9 out of 10 times at least one of them is yet another piece of hate mongering waste of bandwith from the hands of ex SWG players. The horse is already decayed, Stop beating it already.
Polite opinions and an adult discussion are always nice to read, but the SWG Veteran hate mongering is worse then any of the so called fanboi's can do.
As I said, I think they've been generous. I would've just banned you lot.
So if there are a bunch of post praising a game should all the authors of the post be banned? They are clearly wasting bandwidth. The horse has been beaten. We have free will. If you don't want to read hate mongering veterans' posts then don't. You are living by double standards. Just because people are unhappy doesn't mean they don't have as much right to their opinion as those who are happy. Just move on if you don't want to read it. Unwad your panties.
*sigh* Ok, I'll say this all again.
First of all, as to whether a moderator should have deleted the warning email. The answer is yes, absolutely. It clearly breaks our RoC, which Dekron quoted here. If people have an issue with a warning or a ban that they have received, they can email me directly about it at stradden@mmorpg.com I read and reply to user emails when they come into my inbox. That's a part of my job, and frankly, I'd rather talk something out if there's a disagreement ona one-on-one basis. I think everyone can agree that it's always hard to have a conversation with a crowd of people involved.
As to the joking that goes on. Yes, there's a place for it. But not everyone understands that people are joking when they say thigns like that. That's the thing about jokes. There are appropriate places for them. I certainly know a lot of funny jokes I would say to my mother... Doesn't eman I won't tell the jokes, it just means that I will tell them when I'm around people who will find them funny rather than find them to be offensive.
Next, I appologise if the word "disgruntled" put anyone off. I just didn't know how else to describe it from a neutral point of view. That's the key word for me in my job. Neutral. I can't play favorites in any aspect of my job, whether it be the news or the community, and I take great pride in the fact that I do not. I made this decision in what I think is the best possible way for the entire MMORPG.com community. I actually thought that those who wished to voice their repeated opinions on the NGE, SOE, or anything else, would enjoy a place where they could do so. I had hoped that creating a new forum, with them in mind, would be a way to say "Yes guys, we appreciate what you have to say and here's an appropriate place to say it." To my knowledge, that's something that they didn't have before. Similarly, I wanted those people who have decided for whatever reason not to be upset over the changes a place where they could discuss the game. Generally speaking, in all of our forums, that's the point.
The bottom line is that I probably should have created these forums a long time ago. Given each side a voice on what is clearly two different games. I appologise for that. I agonized over what I could do to avoid mass-bannings for various rule-infractions. The General Forums, as you know, have been over-run with that kind of thing and it needed to change. Even so, I recognize that there are valuable things beign said over there, so rather than nuking the whole thing, I chose to leave it open so that people could reply to topics already over there. I had to close it off to new threads so that the new forums would be used.
As to policing this forum in the same way as SWG current. Well, sure, we could do that. But as many people have suggested, the community that you all have built here is unique. I'm not saying that you get a unique set of rules, but I'm saying that we can give some consideration given the forum.
It's not about our relationship with SOE, it's not about our relationship with advertisers in general. I was given no mandate by the site's owners in this decision, other than to simply do my job. The decision to make the two forums was mine. I don't deal with advertisers, and I don't deal with exclusive content. Whether SOE continues to advertise with us or provide us exclusive content is none of my concern.
Look, believe me or don't. That's entirely up to you, but I do ask that before you out and out call me a liar, that you think about whether or not that is justified. I, like many of you, have come to consider MMORPG.com a second home. It's not just a job to me, it's something I agonize over. Many of the replies that I've made throughout the SWG forums over the last few days have been made well after midnight, my time (atlantic), well beyond the time that I'm "off-the-clock". I think that if I didn't feel that way, I would have no business working here at all.
If I wanted to make up lies about things to protect a corporate identity, I wouldn't be working here at a site dedicated to MMORPG players. I'd be out writing spin. MMORPG.com is not a huge corporation. Yes, we've grown over time, and that's thanks to our members. Why would we jeapordize our relationship with our members, who yes, dirve site traffic for the sake of one outside company?
Anyway, I'm done. I'm not going to say that I'm perfect or that the decision was the perfect answer. I'm just saying I did what I thought was the most reasoonable thing at the time.
Jon Wood
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Rofl, --- You are even funny here as you post and try to insult some people here.
You should be reported for being rude and disrespectful to other people here actually. See, with all that you say and try to do the bottom line is that you will never be in the majority, you will never have good facts or support, you will never have the edge of knowing and hearing people say "Wow the NGE and game is just SUPER!" with all your banter and all your pretend role of being a forum cop you still do not get it.
No matter what there will always be wanna be cops, there will always be the ones that try, but fail. I guess people will just have to figure out which is which on thier own. They do not need your input or anyones to know what has happend here.
The difference between a NGE supporter and a anti-NGEr is that the supporter is always on the defensive, they have no offensive or good things to really show or prove it forward, they hold on to anything they can to hold thier ground with anything positive at all. While the anti-NGEr has more ammo, facts, quotes to just keep moving forward each month... each bug, each issue, each exec saying "Do not make our mistake", -- there is alot of info out there showing and proving where this has gone in the last ten months.
Someone just has to have the sense to look at it, read it and apply common sense to it.
View it as a product of investment, time and money and then make a choice. So far with the numbers over the last 10 months I think it is safe to say people are paying attention.
I mean, if they had to add 5- 10 servers each publish I would not question this... but um, yeah lol... Sorry, it is just not gonna make that lol.
This person is angry, he is mad, he has been treated bad by a company he invested his time in.
All I can hope is that people do not read it for the words, but more so the passion and feelings he ONCE had taken away in the name of someone else needing and promoting a easy version of his loved game.
I get alot of PMs and emails from people that know me, they have commented on how they were able to take someone WHO LOVED this game so much and make him 360 into a complete anti-NGEr. I -at one time promoted this game in ways that I now realize were just foolhardy, I trusted people talking to me directly and I learned from it. I brought people in the game when I could and helped out anyone in game all of the time, from Knight trials to just helping a new guy who had no idea I was a Knight hiding my title. I have given away millions, upon millions of credits to people... free pets and enjoyed the people I played with. I considered my rep on Bria as a very good one and was well respected on that server by BOTH factions, role players and alot of people as I respected them.
It's amazing that doing somthing like the NGE can change all of that overnight almost.
See my first Major in school was marketing, I did not get my computer science degree until after that.
The first thing you do not tarnish is your loyal customer base with any busines because WE are the best salesmen at the best salary.... Free. Once your tarnish us, you have then started the trickle effect.
All of us can say all that we want, call each other names, debate until we are blue in the face. The one FUCKING thing that all of us forget time to time is that WE DID NOT DO THIS TO EACH OTHER... WE DID NOT CHOOSE THIS PATH, it was made for us, forced on us and then turned us all into things and people we are not.
I can be the best ass out there, but this is not me -- I wanted to still be the guy the supported the thoughts and ideals of the game IT COULD HAVE BEEN, not what it turned into. I am glad I am not the only at least.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I would accept that had he not deleted my entire thread discussing the topic of moderating and this split. He didn't just delete the posted warning but an entire multi page thread. I can accept that posting warnings violated the RoC. I wasn't aware it was in violation. The rest of the discussion was I think very helpful to the community as a whole and wasn't meant to violate any rules. It was a discussion and a good one on appropriate ways to disagree and the view of how moderation can become heavy handed under a generalized policy.
Then your staff deleted the entire thread on how moderation can become heavy handed because I posted my warning and held a discussion about it.
Jon
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Im not so sure about this part Mal, sure most of us want Pre-Cu back, but I for one have bought three different MMO's since the NGE and tried two trials that I downloaded via links from this site. The fact that I didnt stay with any of these games just makes it that much more likely that I will try a different one when one comes along that sounds good. I had been planning on roma victor, but it hasnt turned out to be as promising as once thought. Additionally, I read most of the articles and visit several of the other forums on this site, all in an attempt to find a game I enjoy. I also read a whole lot of posts from explayers trying to find a new home, and who are also trying out new games (usually in vain). Anyway, I just thought id throw that out.....
That being said, these guys certainly have a right to do whatever they want and it was probably a good idea to divide the forums up. People that like the current game, for whatever ungodly reason, should be able to ask questions about and discuss it without getting flamed to death.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Better solution. Leave General Forums as is, discuss whatever there.
New Forum: SW:G Gameplay Discussion - For discussing current gameplay : RoC Strictly Enforced
Voila, no community split, NGE questions can be asked and answered in a safe new environment.
Temploiter
WDMKR | Incarnate
So instead of letting us make up our own mind whether it was "impolite", he had to erase the evidence in the form of the warning that USED to be posted above and impose his opinion on us. I came out and defended these people, and it becomes more and more apparent I made a major mistake.
If you can't see that there is a whitewash going on here, I truly weep for you.
MMORPG.Com owes us nothing, I admit that. I owe them nothing as well. I've wasted too much time here anyhow. Signing out. One less generator of free content for them to make money from. I'll see some of you around elsewhere.
I truley hope you'll stick around, you're one of my favorite posters here and i'd be sad if you left
I've not made up my mind about whether this was a good move or not, but I believe Stradden when he said he did it with good intentions. I just have to put myself in the Mod's shoes, only they can see the amount of reports and trouble that have come out of our forum, enough that they had to do something apparently. From what i can see so far, the amount of anti-soe/swg posts havent lessened, they're just in a specific place. A place with 3x as many posts and threads as the "other" section.
While I've never heard of any good come from segregating people, I am a bit relieved that there will (hopefully) be less posts here by a few certain someone's that I have to skip over. But it's not like we're confined to our forums and any new person who has been living under a rock and hasnt heard about swg by now will see our forum first and will likely go to where the most posts are. I can see alot of good points about this and hopefully the bad ones, such as how to moderate each forum equally and the favortism percieved, will get ironed out soon.
For the Horde!
This segregation really reeks of "Hack" ... maybe it was with the best intentions, but the impression it leaves is a very poor one.
The mirage that is freeness of speech.
What mirage? You have the right to pay your $15 for a permit to protest anytime you want. That is your freedom of speech. This is a privately owned website, which makes it a priviledge.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
So, why is it wrong to attack somebody personally on other forums, or if they are pro-SOE, but posts like this, calling somebody in particular immature, are ok?
Why is it that the typical trolls and flame starters aren't hardly posting on the other forums but instead are looking for fights over here?
The sum total of this forum split is to make THIS forum the new General forum where people can get trolled, post plowed, forum copped, flamed and insulted. And made the safety forum the pro-SOE forum, where rules are STRICTLY enforced.
You anti-SOE / SWG guys need to seriously move on with your lives. Seriously...
What mmorpg.com does is provide a means for you all to bitch and moan about a version of a game that has been gone for nearly a year and a half. Then you guys moan about the means by which mmorpg.com provides these boards. The 'old' SWG community may be the most screwed over in mmorpg history, but it is also the most vocal whiners ever to exist.
What mirage? You have the right to pay your $15 for a permit to protest anytime you want. That is your freedom of speech. This is a privately owned website, which makes it a priviledge.
um.. pay $15 for a permit to protest where?
=====================
-Just My Thoughts-
Max
Currently playing: Nothing
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin