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NWN2 is going to destroy this game
isurus
Member Posts: 396
I just cancelled my subscription. I played for a little over a month. Went slow, rerolled my character a few times, and eventually made it up to lv9 (cleric).
As i was playing, i was thinking it's a pretty decent game. Hard to classify it as an MMO as it's not so much a persistent world but just a persistent non-combat zone. All the action is instanced (sigh) and linear (sigh again). But really, running the quests in a party is fun. The D&D character depth is awesome. The LFG/LFM interface and voice communication are excellent. There are a few glitches but it's bearable.
And then Mod3 came out. Mod3 had been on the test server for how long? There were a ton of glitches that were reported by the players and that the devs were well aware of. Instead of taking the time to fix the bugs, they release it prematurely. And as of now, the current state of DDO is a glitch-ridden catastrophy. Just take a look at the known issues page on ddo.com. Inexplicable. And these are just the ones they're admiting to.
It was hard to justify $15 a month when i first started, but now there's no doubt in my mind. Where the hell is all the money going?
It's obviously not going to the dev team because they can't release a solid product.
It's obviously not going to maintenance fees because DDO is a Guild Wars clone.
The money is going into the fat wallets of Turbine management, who are completely inept and incapable of making sound decisions. Unless, of course, alienating everyone who isn't a hardcore fan of the franchise is considered a sound decision. Turbine is completely undeserving of pushing the D&D name.
NWN2 ships on October 31st. The first NWN was a huge success and pretty much offers everything DDO does and more without a monthly fee. Except, it will be a quality product because Bioware has a clue. So NWN2 is going to steal the hardcore D&D fans, and Turbine is hard at work alienating everyone else.
DDO is on its death bed.
Comments
To OP
All your post says
"I never played DDO, and i am here just to say some troll words, because i cant pay a fee, so i will play nwn2
I will also play NWN2, but i will also play DDO, because i have fun on it.
Regards
And all your post says is that you're a fanboy who is bitter about your favorite game sucking so much.
See, you don't need 303 posts to jump to conclusions and flame people for no reason...
screw NWN2 up like DDO unless you added 15 dollar monthly fee to play
it. If I'm going to play a game, especially crappy game, at least let
me play it for free.
It's not quite a full MMO (no crafting, housing, no open world, no mass pvp, guild levels, heritage quests, etc.). So it delivers so much less than other games charging 15/mo.
What it does do it does very well. The quests 'move' and you keep going.... a little faster pace than a wow instance imo. Conformance to ruleset is good (although missing a lot of stuff i guess, where's the monk?). LFG/LFM was good. I think they did good on what they did... but 15/mo?
Then you got the other end, GW/NWN2. NWN2 with user created content, thousands of modules, figure 5-10% end up good, results in a thousand hours of good gameplay? Then the multiplayer, human-DM run quests? and all free? And GW has instanced quests, then a bunch of pvp scenarios at the end, and all free?
I think DDO should have been priced relative to the market. I think they might have gotten away with 5/mo, but definately not 15/mo. Or maybe even come out with lots of small $5-10 adventure packs and no monthly fee. I don't know really, just something different. As it is, they call themself an MMO, price themself as a big MMO, and deliver less than half of what these other products provide? NWN2 will definately destroy this game, because it's the same thing (as DDO is now) and it's free. Actually it's more, because of the future of user-made content.
R.I.P
FEB 28 2006 - OCT 31 2006
Actually, it's more accurate to say it's a multiplayer game with a sophisticated toolset packaged with a single player campaign ( ' ;
Hopefully Neverwinter Nights 2 speeds DDO towards its doom, as many believe it will.
If you examine the quality of the D&D Movie that came out a few years back, there is no need to wonder just how the hell DDO got put into the hands of Turbine(a failing to inovate game company).
I personaly was very excited to hear that DDO was coming, but as soon as Turbine was associated with the project, I quickly became discouraged due to the harsh reality of the AC and AC2 projects not really being the advent they could have been.
I'm not going to waste any time crying over spilled milk. NWN2 is definitely going to gain its position in the market; however, I'm not as intrepid as most to say that it's going to rock DDO or NWN off their respective branches. I think that hardcore D&D fans will even be split between NWN vs. NWN2. I can just imagine the threads now.
While I did spend a few months in DDO to give a fair shake, it simply doesn't have the depth I was expecting. I was expecting something a little more flashy than this. My son has played richer games than this at Flash Websites! I'm really very sad to say that, and even moreso to say this: they're not done providing us total crap games! Turbine is going to ruin LotRO... GOOD GRIEF...
DDO can R.I.P. for all I care, especialy after spending(CAD$) $74.99 for the game - $71.96($17.99/m) for four months of gameplay after the free 30 days. That's $146.95 total. I bought 3($44.99/each)NWN Platinum packs that cost $134.96 for 3 friends to play when it first came out a year ago, and we have been playing since then for no extra money. And DDO is still nowhere near as imersive and fun as NWN is.
NWN, thanks for still hanging in there nice and strong and giving me and friends long hours of fun online for cheap.
NWN2, welcome to the neighbourhood! Just put the beer in the fridge and grab another chip bowl on the counter on your way into the living room! The party is just about to begin.
Except that NWN2 isn't particularly well done, either. It plays like a sloppily coded game, to be honest.
Well, almost anything.
Hi everyone
form big time D&D geek and NWN2 (and 1) fanboy
First of , if you are D&D fan. Take out your copy of DDO and burn it. DDO is the biggest slap into the face of D&D ever. And MMO aswell
It is basically Guild Wars with D&D skin - that they force you to pay 15$ monthly for. And to be even more ironic. It is not even as good as GW.
But as for NWN2 fanboy. Beware. NWN2 is rushed release everyone will tell you that. It is a great game and fantastic RPG - every bit true to 3.5 E D&D rules in Forgotten Realms setting (with FR rules aswell)
But it is rushed out of the door, and it is going to see some serious patching. So please dont get your hopes to high up just now.
Also remember that NWN2 is basically an excelent single player RPG , that can be played as MMO (for free)
So dont go in expecting a WOW clone.
That said - NWN2 is excelent. It brings you back to Baldurs Gate days , but this time in 3d with excelent graphic and voicecasting. All with 3,5 D&D rules. Complete with All base classes. All elite races. All prestigue classes. All feats , deities of faerun, even perks.
A real D&D bonanza.
No real D&D fan should be without it
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
All the Prestige classes are not included, because if I open up my Prestige Classes book 3.5e, there are a great many classes available. However the 17 or 19 it includes are fairly good. Just a technical point, but none the less, you paint a great picture of NWN2.
Thx for the heads up.
I stand corrected
Most classes form Dungeon Master manual and many from Faerun campain setting are included.
It is near impossible to add all the prestigue classes since there are hundreds of them , and spread over number of books, addons , settings , whatnot ...
On the bad side
Psionics is not in
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
QFT
Scrap Turbine. Scrap Eberron. Put the franchise in the hands of someone competent and set it in Forgotten Realms or something. The D&D world is so perfect for an MMO it drives me crazy that Turbine had to screw it up so bad.
I picked up NWN2 and Rattrap is right. It feels very clunky and rushed rather than solid and polished. Pretty much every aspect/feature of the game could use some tuning up. More efficient use of system resources is probably what it needs most.
The module editor is pretty bad, too. Maybe i was just spoiled by the old one, but some of the interface windows feel like they were thrown together in a matter of minutes. If you have both NWN and NWN2, go create an NPC in the NWN editor; then create a similar NPC in the NWN2 editor. The armor kit interface is particularly bad.
The basic design under the hood of most MMOs is turn based without the
pauses. In FPS or action games each keystroke activates an attack or
ability more or less instantly. However, in most RPGs and MMORPGs you're auto
attacking at a certain speed, or you're slowed by an attack/abilitys timer or
cooldown. The same idea applies pencil and paper RPGs, like
D&D. A level one character attacks once a round which represents 6 seconds,
painfully slow for a video game of course. Still, it's an attack or
special ability every so many seconds, not the instant a button is
pressed. Sure, we're talking a sped up, nonpausing, and otherwise
modified turn-based system, but a fundamentally turn-based system nonetheless.
As to the "to hit", armor class, and damage mitigation question;
strange as it sounds soaking or absorbing damage and avoiding or dodging it
completely are more or less the same.
Here's an example of what I mean:
Take your standard MMO Fighter, easy to hit but can soak lots damage.
Let's say he has damage reduction of 5 but a dodge rate, where he takes no
damage, of only 25%. He fights a monster that hits for 10 points of
damage per attack. After 10 attacks our Fighter takes 40 points of
damage. As every 4th hit misses, out of 10 only 8 hit, causing 5 due to
his damage reduction.
Then we have a typical MMO Thief, hard to hit but can't take much punishment.
She has only a 2 damage reduction but a 50% dodge rate. Same
monster attacks her at 10 points a hit. Over another 10 attacks only 5
land, causing 8 damage points after her damage reduction. So she takes 40
damage points in total just like the Fighter.
Now let's throw the damage reduction completely out, and only have a dodge
rate, just like in the classic D&D armor class and to hit system. As
a dodge rate is percent of the time a given "to hit" or
"attack bonus" will land against a given armor class; let's shift the
dodge rate to 60% with no damage reduction. Again, over 10 attacks from
that same monster, the total is 40 points.
Each system is basically the same, they both determine how much damage is being
cause of what span of time. The Armor Class/Attack Bonus system and a
damage reduction system are just two methods of achieving the same end.
Also, 3.5ed D&D uses some damage reduction (Barbarians, various monsters,
and a few items have it)
in addition to the ol' "to hit the AC" (THAC0) combat.
Hell, there's even alternate rule sets published (Unearthed Arcana?) that have
armor as damage reduction instead of an AC bonus, just like they have alternate
rules using spell points instead of the standard spell memorization method.
Anyway the point of this overly long post is that MMORPGs and D&D are
perfect bedfellows. Single player RPG video games were nearly all
inspired by the original D&D rules and setting. And there's a host of
excellent D&D licensed single player RPGs. Planescape: Torment,
the Baldur's Gate series, Eye of the Beholder, and original Pool of Radiance and the first Neverwinter Nights,
just to name a few. All of which used the D&D rules with very little
modification. So there's no reason for there not to be an excellent
MMORPG based on D&D's rules and setting.
The core D&D rules and combat systems are more than solid; the fault for
the embarrassment that is D&D Online rests solely with the developers.
Lets not blame the Eberron setting for DDO's problems. There is very little of Eberron in the actual game DDO anyway. DDO's problem is that it's simply a badly designed MMORPG. Turbine are charging the same price as World of Warcraft, Anarchy Online, Everquest, etc... when it is clear there is nothing in DDO that justifies that price. Asheron's Call 1 justifies it's montly price of $13 a month then DDO does. DDO is a Guild Wars wannabe but you have to pay extra money to play and that's just sad and wrong.
I got the game when it first came out cause I was really excited about the game. Eberron was and is my favorite DnD setting since it came out. However I was extremely disappointed by the end result from the instancing, the uneven voice chat mixed with text chat, to the general lack of actual Eberron content, etc. This game would have been better received had it been $5 a month or simply free. Again it isn't the Eberron setting I feel at all that is the problem or should even be blamed since we haven't seen much of it anyway. DDO takes place on the landmass in Eberron that is mostly unknown and vague anyway, not much is known about it and several other landmasses in Eberron. This is if they did a Forgotten Realms game but instead of basing things on the landmass of Fareun they picked one of the landmasses where no solid official information has been released.
That's because that would have required research, and that would have hurt the Turdbine devs' heads.
has some bugs and some features could have been worked out better. Also
even if you have a decent pc, the graphics aren't that good or play as
smooth as it should be.
Anyway I decided to give the 10 day trail a whirl. After playing a
couple of hours of playing DDO I just had enough of it and wanted to
contiue playing NWN2. Even with all its shortcommings NWN2, to me, is a
vastly superior product. There is no way I would ever pay to play a
game such as DDO. Neverwinter can potentially do the same things as
DDO. All in non instanced worlds, without the monthly payments.