Originally posted by Techleo The fact remains no patten goes unrepeated. Eventually another game will produce just as much income as WoW does. Mind you Im not certain whether that will occur with the game crop coming up. Frankly I have my eyes on the smaller companies not aiming for such a huge income. Niche games suit me best. When Fallen Earth and Hero's Journey are active ill be very happy. Im sorta surprised how well Fallen Earth seems to be shaping up. I keep hearing realy good reviews of the game from Game conventions. Not to mention so sweet videos.
Yeah that's true. It's called World of Warcrft 2 or World of Starcraft
As long as blizzard doesant have anything to do with it. They cant make a decent mmo if there liveds depended on it.
Actually, they made one of the best MMORPG's ever created.
they have made the most sucessful mmo, but i would not say that is the best mmo, i play wow from time to time and i do not think it is the best mmo out there now, most sucessful yes, best NO
Originally posted by Mirokata First off, it's impossible for someone to post a fact saying a game is "the best". You dont need to say IMO, its implied that its your opinion because you are saying it.
Secondly, the fact remains that WoW has done next to nothing to actually progress the genre. For a game that apparently has more than half of the market share, you would expect them to produce something new, or atleast do more with their game then keep up the servers and tweak talents.
The only fact we have is (when the numbers Blizzard gives are true) that 7.5 mill people are playing game. That on its own should tell us that it isnt a medicore mmorpg or are we stating that those 7.5 mill people dont have any taste? WoW is by far the most succesfull mmorpg. I dont know the numbers for Korean ones, maybe Gameloading knows them, but i dont think that there are many korean games which go over that 7.5 mil players.
I dont play MMOG for sometime now, however I do come here once in a blue moon. Blizzard is owned by a public company. By law they will have to show their book. If they lie about their income then it is a felony.
Blizzard is owned by Vivendi Universal, and their income is reported under Vivendi Universals games division VU games. Vivendi is a French company and would fall under EU rules for financial reporting.
For all its success WoW only accounts for ~1% of Vivendis revenue.
Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, they made the most popular and one of the best MMORPG ever created.
Fixed.
Fixed.
lol nice. Dont know why people think its one of the worst put together games ever (we've all read these). Im not playing it anymore, but it is basic. Though it gets the job done in that category.
Pretty damn solid game if you ask me. It deserves greatness, though that delay on the expansion pack made me rethink this a bit.
Originally posted by Mirokata First off, it's impossible for someone to post a fact saying a game is "the best". You dont need to say IMO, its implied that its your opinion because you are saying it.
Secondly, the fact remains that WoW has done next to nothing to actually progress the genre. For a game that apparently has more than half of the market share, you would expect them to produce something new, or atleast do more with their game then keep up the servers and tweak talents.
Here's what they did, and it's easy for advanced MMO gamers to miss: they took the MMO, made it streamlined, cut down on timesinks (other than endgame), filled the game with quests to disguise grinding, and reduced the steepness of the advancement curve. In other words, they made the MMO accessible to casual gamers. That progressed the genre substantially from the financial/business point of view, because now the number of people who are interested in MMOs, and who may be willing to try a different MMO, is much, much larger than it was before WoW. WoW's contribution to the genre was to create the casual-friendly, accesible MMO, and they did that brilliantly well.
well I read an article about the WoW the other day and they were boasting a new total subscriber base of 7.5 million
no I am no mathmagician but if you do the math
7,500,000 subscribers x 15.00 dollars a month = 112,500,000$ take that a step further x 12 = 1,350,000,000
and that is based off if you were to charge US for everything, which of course it not the case. but Still those are some impressive figures.
One of the things I think is funny about world of warcraft is how its become the guilty pleasure that no one wants to talk about but everyone cant stop bringing it up. I would comfortably say that almost anyone who is into MMOs has at least tried it, and for the most part I think enjoyed the simplicity. I have heard time and time again, that its a wash of an MMO. but I think WoW is exactly what the MMO industry needed, think about how much is instore now that there is a flagship to show everyone how much opportunity there is.
about the game specifically. yeah its simple in design, and the quest givers have icons on the map, and the PvP is also pretty painless, but its really entertaining, at least for awhile. its a breath of fresh air to not walk around for two hours looking for the next step in the quest..
I dont think that its the game for everyone, and as a solo player I stopped at about 55 because I couldnt solo anymore, but it was a lot of fun while I played it.
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by Shannia And they will still have made more money already than any other MMOG franchise will ever make? Not even EQ or UO can claim to have made $1,000,000,000 off their MMORPG. Blizzard makes a BILLION a year.
LOL.
7 millions BOXES, not accounts currently paying a monthly fee every month. I am unsure as to which game make more profit between WoW and EQ, since EQ has been running at 500k users for a LONG time. Blizzard won't tell us exactly, but I suspect that if they made $30 millions per month (which is wonderfull btw), it is great.
LOL at the kids falling for marketing propaganda. $15 X 2 millions is $30 millions...while YOU suggest that they make $15 X 7 millions for $105 millions a month, which is completely off the mark. Asia doesn't pay that well, and I don't think they even have 1.5 millions North American/Europeen subscribtions each month...do the math. It is wonderfull, but it isn't as glamorous as you believe.
No, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a stunning achievement.
Originally posted by Shannia And they will still have made more money already than any other MMOG franchise will ever make? Not even EQ or UO can claim to have made $1,000,000,000 off their MMORPG. Blizzard makes a BILLION a year.
LOL.
7 millions BOXES, not accounts currently paying a monthly fee every month. I am unsure as to which game make more profit between WoW and EQ, since EQ has been running at 500k users for a LONG time. Blizzard won't tell us exactly, but I suspect that if they made $30 millions per month (which is wonderfull btw), it is great.
LOL at the kids falling for marketing propaganda. $15 X 2 millions is $30 millions...while YOU suggest that they make $15 X 7 millions for $105 millions a month, which is completely off the mark. Asia doesn't pay that well, and I don't think they even have 1.5 millions North American/Europeen subscribtions each month...do the math. It is wonderfull, but it isn't as glamorous as you believe.
I dont play MMOG for sometime now, however I do come here once in a blue moon. Blizzard is owned by a public company. By law they will have to show their book. If they lie about their income then it is a felony.
They make their money in many ways out of WoW. From subscriptions, toys, publishing (books/comics), non-computer games (card and board games), clothing (T-Shirts), and general licensing of the WoW brand (movie, TV shows, etc).
One billion is kind of low for that kind of brand recognition. I am sure they probably make more then that next year.
Canadians laws are clearer. They say they SOLD over 7 millions boxes. Not that they have 7 millions peoples paying $15 a month. Not the same. 1 billion for a game as low? You are obviously not from Dakota!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
One thing I can admitt about WoW is that even thoug it's a mediocre game it's strangely addicting, as it was designed to be. Being addicting kept those player around longer and the new players around longer. You got a community of 1million blizzard fans looking forward to a MMO version of their most successful game of all time and you already got a huge game population. Now those ppl's friends who aren't gamers see them playing WoW for 8hrs a day then go "hey I wanna try" and they start. Not the friends of those friends do the same thing and you now have a game that's growing rapidly.
It's really simple how WoW got popular. It's not because it's a good game it's because it was designed to be addictive and released on a very popular title.
This is a good try, but to be honest your use of the word "addictive" simply begs the question of why that is so. It is so because of the game design, which people find entertaining and enjoyable. Blizzard made the levelling curve such that advancements are realistically achievable by people, and that makes them want to keep playing. It's a game design that people enjoy, and it's made the game very successful.
As to the importance of the name, yes this clearly helped Blizzard a lot. But you know ... they played their cards completely right with that one. They knew they had an existing fanbase from WC and SC and Diablo, and they also knew that this was not the classic MMO fanbase. So they designed an MMO that even a non-MMO gamer (like the fans of their other games) would enjoy playing. Very smart business and design decision, and they reaped the rewards from that.
Originally posted by NovaseekerNo, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a stunning achievement.
I am pretty sure it is LESS than that. It is still wonderful, but 3 millions boxes is prolly what they SOLD in total in NA and Europe, peoples leave, a little like atrition. If they have 1.5 million peoples paying $15 a month (for october or november 2006), that is still wonderful. They take confusing sentences to make you believe that they have a LOT more peoples still playing, base fact, more than half the customers of ANY MMO have cancelled their subscribtion before 1 year pass...they still try to make you believe in 7 millions "active" subscribers, while they sold over 7 millions boxes...in 2 years, the 3/4 have cancelled subscribtions at the least, so they arrange the wording "active" so it look better, mind you, they are doing wonderful. But not THAT wonderful.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by NovaseekerNo, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a stunning achievement.
I am pretty sure it is LESS than that. It is still wonderful, but 3 millions boxes is prolly what they SOLD in total in NA and Europe, peoples leave, a little like atrition. If they have 1.5 million peoples paying $15 a month (for october or november 2006), that is still wonderful. They take confusing sentences to make you believe that they have a LOT more peoples still playing, base fact, more than half the customers of ANY MMO have cancelled their subscribtion before 1 year pass...they still try to make you believe in 7 millions "active" subscribers, while they sold over 7 millions boxes...in 2 years, the 3/4 have cancelled subscribtions at the least, so they arrange the wording "active" so it look better, mind you, they are doing wonderful. But not THAT wonderful. I doubt that. Blizzard is a part of Vivendi, which is a public company. That press release would have been scrubbed by their SEC lawyers before it was released, and the language was very specific in speaking of "subscribers" and used that word twice. It's extremely unlikely that they are lying, particularly in this post-Enron environment where everyone's SEC lawyers and accountants are running through every press release with a fine toothed comb.
Originally posted by Mirokata First off, it's impossible for someone to post a fact saying a game is "the best". You dont need to say IMO, its implied that its your opinion because you are saying it.
Secondly, the fact remains that WoW has done next to nothing to actually progress the genre. For a game that apparently has more than half of the market share, you would expect them to produce something new, or atleast do more with their game then keep up the servers and tweak talents.
hardly. saying "this game sucks" is the same as saying "this bottle is made of glass". its a fact. saying "in my opinion, this game sucks", thats an opinion.
Also, WoW has done nothing to progress the genre is simply because this was not the goal of World of Warcraft. The goal was to take everything good out of other MMORPG and make one solid MMORPG. New doesn't always mean its good. just because WoW didn't make a complete "new" game does not mean its a bad game.
Originally posted by NovaseekerNo, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a stunning achievement.
I am pretty sure it is LESS than that. It is still wonderful, but 3 millions boxes is prolly what they SOLD in total in NA and Europe, peoples leave, a little like atrition. If they have 1.5 million peoples paying $15 a month (for october or november 2006), that is still wonderful. They take confusing sentences to make you believe that they have a LOT more peoples still playing, base fact, more than half the customers of ANY MMO have cancelled their subscribtion before 1 year pass...they still try to make you believe in 7 millions "active" subscribers, while they sold over 7 millions boxes...in 2 years, the 3/4 have cancelled subscribtions at the least, so they arrange the wording "active" so it look better, mind you, they are doing wonderful. But not THAT wonderful.
"World of Warcraft customers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or purchased a prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the installation box bundled with one free month access. Internet Game Room players that have accessed the game over the last seven days are also counted as customers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired pre-paid cards. Customers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules. "
(this is an old press release, back when WoW reached the 5 million mark)
World of Warcraft has 7,5 million CURRENT PLAYERS.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by Shannia And they will still have made more money already than any other MMOG franchise will ever make? Not even EQ or UO can claim to have made $1,000,000,000 off their MMORPG. Blizzard makes a BILLION a year.
LOL.
7 millions BOXES, not accounts currently paying a monthly fee every month. I am unsure as to which game make more profit between WoW and EQ, since EQ has been running at 500k users for a LONG time. Blizzard won't tell us exactly, but I suspect that if they made $30 millions per month (which is wonderfull btw), it is great.
LOL at the kids falling for marketing propaganda. $15 X 2 millions is $30 millions...while YOU suggest that they make $15 X 7 millions for $105 millions a month, which is completely off the mark. Asia doesn't pay that well, and I don't think they even have 1.5 millions North American/Europeen subscribtions each month...do the math. It is wonderfull, but it isn't as glamorous as you believe.
No, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a stunning achievement. Actualy, its 7 million ACTIVE SUBSCRIBERS, not boxes sold.
Here's what they did, and it's easy for advanced MMO gamers to miss: they took the MMO, made it streamlined, cut down on timesinks (other than endgame), filled the game with quests to disguise grinding, and reduced the steepness of the advancement curve. In other words, they made the MMO accessible to casual gamers. That progressed the genre substantially from the financial/business point of view, because now the number of people who are interested in MMOs, and who may be willing to try a different MMO, is much, much larger than it was before WoW. WoW's contribution to the genre was to create the casual-friendly, accesible MMO, and they did that brilliantly well.
Agree 101%
Originally posted by boognish75
they have made the most sucessful mmo, but i would not say that is the best mmo, i play wow from time to time and i do not think it is the best mmo out there now, most sucessful yes, best NO
Originally posted by Gameloading The exact same counts for other MMO's that live on a franchise, such as SWG and the matrix online, and in terms of game franchise, Final Fantasy XI. Yet we see none of those reach even close to WoW's numbers, yet in your theory, Final Fantasy XI should have at least 3 million subscribers. Word of mouth counts for every MMORPG.
Just face it, WoW has the best reviews, most awards, and dominates over half of the mmorpg.com subscriber market. WoW isn't medicore, WoW is one of the best MMO's. your mixing up "bad game" with "Not for me".
SWG - The game was CRAP when it was released. The game was full of bugs and had very little in the ways of players. The game was a flop from the beginning because they released it years too early. They finally brought some stuff together and made the game decent then screwed it up again. By the time they actually made the game playable, it was already out of the "NEW" bin. And not to mention the SWG that finally made it "big" was a niche game. The SWG players didn't understand the concept of MMOs and they all wanted to be Jedis. There was constant flaming on the SWG boards about how you had to do all this crap to be a Jedi. It's downfall is that it's based on a movie with heroes and it was released way too early. (early downfall)
Matrix - Not a single matrix game was good. Not one. People liked the movies, not the games. Same can be said for Star Wars, except Star Wars has released a couple good titles where as the Matrix has yet to release a good game title. Even so, the players for both are movie fans, not gamers. Blizzard had a fan base of GAMERS, not just your average joe who loves the Matrix movies.
FFXI - Known from the beginning for forced grouping. Even with forced grouping it takes hours to get a decent group. The game was huge at release, but didn't have the Word of Mouth that WoW has, because ppl simply didn't like the game itself. Where as WoW is just addicting, I'm not disputing that. But it was made to be addicting. WoW is also VERY well programmed, which also lead to its success.
You don't understand the concept of "exponential growth". Maybe you need to look that up. A game needs to first get players, then hook them, or there is no word of mouth and if there is no word of mouth there is no "exponential growth".
Originally posted by Gameloading The exact same counts for other MMO's that live on a franchise, such as SWG and the matrix online, and in terms of game franchise, Final Fantasy XI. Yet we see none of those reach even close to WoW's numbers, yet in your theory, Final Fantasy XI should have at least 3 million subscribers. Word of mouth counts for every MMORPG.
Just face it, WoW has the best reviews, most awards, and dominates over half of the mmorpg.com subscriber market. WoW isn't medicore, WoW is one of the best MMO's. your mixing up "bad game" with "Not for me".
SWG - The game was CRAP when it was released. The game was full of bugs and had very little in the ways of players. The game was a flop from the beginning because they released it years too early. They finally brought some stuff together and made the game decent then screwed it up again. By the time they actually made the game playable, it was already out of the "NEW" bin. And not to mention the SWG that finally made it "big" was a niche game. The SWG players didn't understand the concept of MMOs and they all wanted to be Jedis. There was constant flaming on the SWG boards about how you had to do all this crap to be a Jedi. It's downfall is that it's based on a movie with heroes and it was released way too early. (early downfall)
Matrix - Not a single matrix game was good. Not one. People liked the movies, not the games. Same can be said for Star Wars, except Star Wars has released a couple good titles where as the Matrix has yet to release a good game title. Even so, the players for both are movie fans, not gamers. Blizzard had a fan base of GAMERS, not just your average joe who loves the Matrix movies.
FFXI - Known from the beginning for forced grouping. Even with forced grouping it takes hours to get a decent group. The game was huge at release, but didn't have the Word of Mouth that WoW has, because ppl simply didn't like the game itself. Where as WoW is just addicting, I'm not disputing that. But it was made to be addicting. WoW is also VERY well programmed, which also lead to its success.
You only proved my point by this. WoW is popular because its a good game. name recognition helped, but its not the main reasons WoW is so successfull
Originally posted by Gameloading You only proved my point by this. WoW is popular because its a good game. name recognition helped, but its not the main reasons WoW is so successfull
No, they redesigned a game that already had a huge success and threw their name on it.
Copying something is not good. There is nothing in WoW that makes it a "good" game. Addicting is not good. The easy level advancements makes it addicting, you can't wait to get to the next level so you play play play, then you make the next level.
They made it for ppl who weren't gamers, to hook people who weren't gamers. That's a good marketing technique but that does not make it a good game. The only thing in WoW that I would consider "good" if not exceptional, is the programming. WoW has the least bugs of any MMORPG I've ever played.
And on top of that, WoW isn't even the "World of Warcraft" it's the "World of Blizzard". The game doesn't even slightly resemble Warcraft, it only barely resembles WCIII that was in development at the same time. WCIII threw in heroes to make it more like WoW.
Originally posted by Gameloading You only proved my point by this. WoW is popular because its a good game. name recognition helped, but its not the main reasons WoW is so successfull
No, they redesigned a game that already had a huge success and threw their name on it.
Copying something is not good. There is nothing in WoW that makes it a "good" game. Addicting is not good. The easy level advancements makes it addicting, you can't wait to get to the next level so you play play play, then you make the next level.
They made it for ppl who weren't gamers, to hook people who weren't gamers. That's a good marketing technique but that does not make it a good game. The only thing in WoW that I would consider "good" if not exceptional, is the programming. WoW has the least bugs of any MMORPG I've ever played.
Actually, WoW IS a good game, this is proven by the reviews, awards and the fact it holds over half of the mmorpg subscriber market. You have nothing to back up your statement that the game wasn't made for gamers. the game is for the biggest part based on Everquest, and, unless you want to claim Everquest isn't made for gamers eithers, then your theory is flawed.
Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, WoW IS a good game, this is proven by the reviews, awards and the fact it holds over half of the mmorpg subscriber market. You have nothing to back up your statement that the game wasn't made for gamers. the game is for the biggest part based on Everquest, and, unless you want to claim Everquest isn't made for gamers eithers, then your theory is flawed.
How can you tell me I have nothing to back up my statement when you simply keep saying the same thing over and over and over that's based on the amount of players.
You're backwards here.
Now make another post that says: "WoW is a good game because it has alot of players."
Reviews mean jack. Reviews go with what's in fasion. When things go out of fasion, reviews go down.
Everquest was a decent game. It lead the way. But, it did some things much differently. Blizzard basically took the good parts out and made it so anyone 8-80 could play.
Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, WoW IS a good game, this is proven by the reviews, awards and the fact it holds over half of the mmorpg subscriber market. You have nothing to back up your statement that the game wasn't made for gamers. the game is for the biggest part based on Everquest, and, unless you want to claim Everquest isn't made for gamers eithers, then your theory is flawed.
How can you tell me I have nothing to back up my statement when you simply keep saying the same thing over and over and over that's based on the amount of players.
You're backwards here.
Now make another post that says: "WoW is a good game because it has alot of players."
Reviews mean jack. Reviews go with what's in fasion. When things go out of fasion, reviews go down.
Everquest was a decent game. It lead the way. But, it did some things much differently. Blizzard basically took the good parts out and made it so anyone 8-80 could play.
Reviews hardly mean jack. They are written by people who are dedicated to games, who know what the heck they are talking about. saying that all reviewers are corrupt is rediculous, and again, you have nothing to back up that statement. WoW IS a good game because of the amount of players. 7, 5 million players enjoy the game, its the only game that is popular in both the west and the east.
Everquest didn't do so much diffrent. WoW is an improved version of Everquest with exp X5
At least I bring in the facts. you bring nothing but your own opinion and experience of the game.
Saying 7,5 million people, reviewers and award givers are wrong, and that your right, is rediculous.
you can yell that "this isn't good and that isn't good" but thats merely your opinion. not a fact. WoW does not have the features you are looking for,just like the game you play doesn't offer the features WoW players are looking for. but that doesn't make WoW a bad game. its NOT for everyone
Originally posted by Roin Originally posted by Techleo The fact remains no patten goes unrepeated. Eventually another game will produce just as much income as WoW does. Mind you Im not certain whether that will occur with the game crop coming up. Frankly I have my eyes on the smaller companies not aiming for such a huge income. Niche games suit me best. When Fallen Earth and Hero's Journey are active ill be very happy. Im sorta surprised how well Fallen Earth seems to be shaping up. I keep hearing realy good reviews of the game from Game conventions. Not to mention so sweet videos.
Yeah that's true. It's called World of Warcrft 2 or World of Starcraft Or World of Diablo :P
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by Gameloading You only proved my point by this. WoW is popular because its a good game. name recognition helped, but its not the main reasons WoW is so successfull
No, they redesigned a game that already had a huge success and threw their name on it.
Copying something is not good. There is nothing in WoW that makes it a "good" game. Addicting is not good. The easy level advancements makes it addicting, you can't wait to get to the next level so you play play play, then you make the next level.
They made it for ppl who weren't gamers, to hook people who weren't gamers. That's a good marketing technique but that does not make it a good game. The only thing in WoW that I would consider "good" if not exceptional, is the programming. WoW has the least bugs of any MMORPG I've ever played.
Actually, WoW IS a good game, this is proven by the reviews, awards and the fact it holds over half of the mmorpg subscriber market. You have nothing to back up your statement that the game wasn't made for gamers. the game is for the biggest part based on Everquest, and, unless you want to claim Everquest isn't made for gamers eithers, then your theory is flawed.
You're assuming that a good game is something that sells well. It's not. I suppose you think Britney Spears is a good artist too then?
As for your 'proof', reveiws can be bought. Look at all the reveiws for WoW too. "It's easy to get into", "it's nice". The reveiws are all full of blank phrases. The reveiws are so half assed too. Here's direct quotes from gamespot:
"Here is the online role-playing game you should play, no matter who you are." Haha! That's the summery for the game. Such a unbiased, decriptive title. You can tell whoever made that was soooo not paid off.
"Huge, beautiful, seamless world" Hahaha! Go look at WoW's contemporaries. WoW was pathetic for it's time.
"action-packed combat" If you like paying $15 pressing an auto-attack button then pressing several special skill buttons when they light up!
As for it's awards, plenty of bad things win awards. How many music award shows are there anymore? Are you going to claim that because some generic Raper won an award that they are better then Betoven or Sinatra. When awards are yearly then mean practicaly nothing.
And while WoW does hold half of the MMORPG subscriber market, it is important to note that they do not hold half of the American subscriber market. Over half their customer base in Asia. A game is messured by different standerd in Asia than in America because of vastly different cultures. You really shouldn't throw them into one lot.
And to back up Snakey's statement. WoW was not made for gamers. Read any reveiw of the game. They will state that it was made so that anyone can pick up the game and play it. Some even go as far as to litterately say that it was made for people who don't normally play MMOs and or video games.
Everquest was made for the gamers of the MMO market. In it's development, it attempted to bring new ideas to the market. It made advancements from the generation before it. WoW however, came after Everquest. The devs of WoW adressed none of the issue that plagued the gamers of EQ unlike the devs of EQ who had adressed the concerns of earlier MMO games. Since WoW ignored games of the EQ generation of game, it can be said that the game was not made for gamers.
Still about 4 million subs come from Asia, primarily China which has a different payment structure then the US. I would expect that combined they are making 760 million. Still more then any other mmo.
The only one who comes close in NCSoft at about 300 million.
Originally posted by CleffyII Still about 4 million subs come from Asia, primarily China which has a different payment structure then the US. I would expect that combined they are making 760 million. Still more then any other mmo. The only one who comes close in NCSoft at about 300 million.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
Comments
As long as blizzard doesant have anything to do with it. They cant make a decent mmo if there liveds depended on it.
Actually, they made one of the best MMORPG's ever created.
they have made the most sucessful mmo, but i would not say that is the best mmo, i play wow from time to time and i do not think it is the best mmo out there now, most sucessful yes, best NO
playing eq2 and two worlds
Blizzard is owned by Vivendi Universal, and their income is reported under Vivendi Universals games division VU games. Vivendi is a French company and would fall under EU rules for financial reporting.
For all its success WoW only accounts for ~1% of Vivendis revenue.
Fixed.
Fixed.
lol nice. Dont know why people think its one of the worst put together games ever (we've all read these). Im not playing it anymore, but it is basic. Though it gets the job done in that category.
Pretty damn solid game if you ask me. It deserves greatness, though that delay on the expansion pack made me rethink this a bit.
no I am no mathmagician but if you do the math
7,500,000 subscribers
x
15.00 dollars a month
=
112,500,000$ take that a step further
x
12
=
1,350,000,000
and that is based off if you were to charge US for everything, which of course it not the case. but Still those are some impressive figures.
One of the things I think is funny about world of warcraft is how its become the guilty pleasure that no one wants to talk about but everyone cant stop bringing it up. I would comfortably say that almost anyone who is into MMOs has at least tried it, and for the most part I think enjoyed the simplicity. I have heard time and time again, that its a wash of an MMO. but I think WoW is exactly what the MMO industry needed, think about how much is instore now that there is a flagship to show everyone how much opportunity there is.
about the game specifically. yeah its simple in design, and the quest givers have icons on the map, and the PvP is also pretty painless, but its really entertaining, at least for awhile. its a breath of fresh air to not walk around for two hours looking for the next step in the quest..
I dont think that its the game for everyone, and as a solo player I stopped at about 55 because I couldnt solo anymore, but it was a lot of fun while I played it.
just my thought
LOL.
7 millions BOXES, not accounts currently paying a monthly fee every month. I am unsure as to which game make more profit between WoW and EQ, since EQ has been running at 500k users for a LONG time. Blizzard won't tell us exactly, but I suspect that if they made $30 millions per month (which is wonderfull btw), it is great.
LOL at the kids falling for marketing propaganda. $15 X 2 millions is $30 millions...while YOU suggest that they make $15 X 7 millions for $105 millions a month, which is completely off the mark. Asia doesn't pay that well, and I don't think they even have 1.5 millions North American/Europeen subscribtions each month...do the math. It is wonderfull, but it isn't as glamorous as you believe.
No, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a stunning achievement.
LOL.
7 millions BOXES, not accounts currently paying a monthly fee every month. I am unsure as to which game make more profit between WoW and EQ, since EQ has been running at 500k users for a LONG time. Blizzard won't tell us exactly, but I suspect that if they made $30 millions per month (which is wonderfull btw), it is great.
LOL at the kids falling for marketing propaganda. $15 X 2 millions is $30 millions...while YOU suggest that they make $15 X 7 millions for $105 millions a month, which is completely off the mark. Asia doesn't pay that well, and I don't think they even have 1.5 millions North American/Europeen subscribtions each month...do the math. It is wonderfull, but it isn't as glamorous as you believe.
I dont play MMOG for sometime now, however I do come here once in a blue moon. Blizzard is owned by a public company. By law they will have to show their book. If they lie about their income then it is a felony.
They make their money in many ways out of WoW. From subscriptions, toys, publishing (books/comics), non-computer games (card and board games), clothing (T-Shirts), and general licensing of the WoW brand (movie, TV shows, etc).
One billion is kind of low for that kind of brand recognition. I am sure they probably make more then that next year.
Canadians laws are clearer. They say they SOLD over 7 millions boxes. Not that they have 7 millions peoples paying $15 a month. Not the same. 1 billion for a game as low? You are obviously not from Dakota!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
One thing I can admitt about WoW is that even thoug it's a mediocre
game it's strangely addicting, as it was designed to be. Being
addicting kept those player around longer and the new players around
longer. You got a community of 1million blizzard fans looking forward
to a MMO version of their most successful game of all time and you
already got a huge game population. Now those ppl's friends who aren't
gamers see them playing WoW for 8hrs a day then go "hey I wanna try"
and they start. Not the friends of those friends do the same thing and
you now have a game that's growing rapidly.
It's really simple
how WoW got popular. It's not because it's a good game it's because it
was designed to be addictive and released on a very popular title.
This is a good try, but to be honest your use of the word "addictive" simply begs the question of why that is so. It is so because of the game design, which people find entertaining and enjoyable. Blizzard made the levelling curve such that advancements are realistically achievable by people, and that makes them want to keep playing. It's a game design that people enjoy, and it's made the game very successful.
As to the importance of the name, yes this clearly helped Blizzard a lot. But you know ... they played their cards completely right with that one. They knew they had an existing fanbase from WC and SC and Diablo, and they also knew that this was not the classic MMO fanbase. So they designed an MMO that even a non-MMO gamer (like the fans of their other games) would enjoy playing. Very smart business and design decision, and they reaped the rewards from that.- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I doubt that. Blizzard is a part of Vivendi, which is a public company. That press release would have been scrubbed by their SEC lawyers before it was released, and the language was very specific in speaking of "subscribers" and used that word twice. It's extremely unlikely that they are lying, particularly in this post-Enron environment where everyone's SEC lawyers and accountants are running through every press release with a fine toothed comb.
hardly. saying "this game sucks" is the same as saying "this bottle is made of glass". its a fact. saying "in my opinion, this game sucks", thats an opinion.
Also, WoW has done nothing to progress the genre is simply because this was not the goal of World of Warcraft. The goal was to take everything good out of other MMORPG and make one solid MMORPG. New doesn't always mean its good. just because WoW didn't make a complete "new" game does not mean its a bad game.
This is an older press release:
http://www.blizzard.com/press/051219.shtml
"World of Warcraft customers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or purchased a prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the installation box bundled with one free month access. Internet Game Room players that have accessed the game over the last seven days are also counted as customers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired pre-paid cards. Customers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules. "
(this is an old press release, back when WoW reached the 5 million mark)
World of Warcraft has 7,5 million CURRENT PLAYERS.
LOL.
7 millions BOXES, not accounts currently paying a monthly fee every
month. I am unsure as to which game make more profit between WoW
and EQ, since EQ has been running at 500k users for a LONG time.
Blizzard won't tell us exactly, but I suspect that if they made $30
millions per month (which is wonderfull btw), it is great.
LOL
at the kids falling for marketing propaganda. $15 X 2 millions is
$30 millions...while YOU suggest that they make $15 X 7 millions for
$105 millions a month, which is completely off the mark. Asia
doesn't pay that well, and I don't think they even have 1.5 millions
North American/Europeen subscribtions each month...do the math.
It is wonderfull, but it isn't as glamorous as you believe.
No, there are betwen 2.5m and 3m in North America and Europe, which
equates to ~45m per month in sub fees, even if they don't earn one red
cent in Asia. That's simply way, way, way ahead of anyone else
involved in the online gaming industry at the moment. It's a
stunning achievement.
Actualy, its 7 million ACTIVE SUBSCRIBERS, not boxes sold.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/07/world-of-warcraft-hits-7-million-subscribers/
Originally posted by Novaseeker
Here's what they did, and it's easy
for advanced MMO gamers to miss: they took the MMO, made it
streamlined, cut down on timesinks (other than endgame), filled the
game with quests to disguise grinding, and reduced the steepness of the
advancement curve. In other words, they made the MMO accessible
to casual gamers. That progressed the genre substantially from
the financial/business point of view, because now the number of people
who are interested in MMOs, and who may be willing to try a different
MMO, is much, much larger than it was before WoW. WoW's
contribution to the genre was to create the casual-friendly, accesible
MMO, and they did that brilliantly well.
Agree 101%
Originally posted by boognish75
they have made the most sucessful mmo,
but i would not say that is the best mmo, i play wow from time to time
and i do not think it is the best mmo out there now, most sucessful
yes, best NO
Agree 101%
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
SWG - The game was CRAP when it was released. The game was full of bugs and had very little in the ways of players. The game was a flop from the beginning because they released it years too early. They finally brought some stuff together and made the game decent then screwed it up again. By the time they actually made the game playable, it was already out of the "NEW" bin. And not to mention the SWG that finally made it "big" was a niche game. The SWG players didn't understand the concept of MMOs and they all wanted to be Jedis. There was constant flaming on the SWG boards about how you had to do all this crap to be a Jedi. It's downfall is that it's based on a movie with heroes and it was released way too early. (early downfall)
Matrix - Not a single matrix game was good. Not one. People liked the movies, not the games. Same can be said for Star Wars, except Star Wars has released a couple good titles where as the Matrix has yet to release a good game title. Even so, the players for both are movie fans, not gamers. Blizzard had a fan base of GAMERS, not just your average joe who loves the Matrix movies.
FFXI - Known from the beginning for forced grouping. Even with forced grouping it takes hours to get a decent group. The game was huge at release, but didn't have the Word of Mouth that WoW has, because ppl simply didn't like the game itself. Where as WoW is just addicting, I'm not disputing that. But it was made to be addicting. WoW is also VERY well programmed, which also lead to its success.
You don't understand the concept of "exponential growth". Maybe you need to look that up. A game needs to first get players, then hook them, or there is no word of mouth and if there is no word of mouth there is no "exponential growth".
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SWG - The game was CRAP when it was released. The game was full of bugs and had very little in the ways of players. The game was a flop from the beginning because they released it years too early. They finally brought some stuff together and made the game decent then screwed it up again. By the time they actually made the game playable, it was already out of the "NEW" bin. And not to mention the SWG that finally made it "big" was a niche game. The SWG players didn't understand the concept of MMOs and they all wanted to be Jedis. There was constant flaming on the SWG boards about how you had to do all this crap to be a Jedi. It's downfall is that it's based on a movie with heroes and it was released way too early. (early downfall)
Matrix - Not a single matrix game was good. Not one. People liked the movies, not the games. Same can be said for Star Wars, except Star Wars has released a couple good titles where as the Matrix has yet to release a good game title. Even so, the players for both are movie fans, not gamers. Blizzard had a fan base of GAMERS, not just your average joe who loves the Matrix movies.
FFXI - Known from the beginning for forced grouping. Even with forced grouping it takes hours to get a decent group. The game was huge at release, but didn't have the Word of Mouth that WoW has, because ppl simply didn't like the game itself. Where as WoW is just addicting, I'm not disputing that. But it was made to be addicting. WoW is also VERY well programmed, which also lead to its success.
You only proved my point by this. WoW is popular because its a good game. name recognition helped, but its not the main reasons WoW is so successfull
No, they redesigned a game that already had a huge success and threw their name on it.
Copying something is not good. There is nothing in WoW that makes it a "good" game. Addicting is not good. The easy level advancements makes it addicting, you can't wait to get to the next level so you play play play, then you make the next level.
They made it for ppl who weren't gamers, to hook people who weren't gamers. That's a good marketing technique but that does not make it a good game. The only thing in WoW that I would consider "good" if not exceptional, is the programming. WoW has the least bugs of any MMORPG I've ever played.
And on top of that, WoW isn't even the "World of Warcraft" it's the "World of Blizzard". The game doesn't even slightly resemble Warcraft, it only barely resembles WCIII that was in development at the same time. WCIII threw in heroes to make it more like WoW.
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No, they redesigned a game that already had a huge success and threw their name on it.
Copying something is not good. There is nothing in WoW that makes it a "good" game. Addicting is not good. The easy level advancements makes it addicting, you can't wait to get to the next level so you play play play, then you make the next level.
They made it for ppl who weren't gamers, to hook people who weren't gamers. That's a good marketing technique but that does not make it a good game. The only thing in WoW that I would consider "good" if not exceptional, is the programming. WoW has the least bugs of any MMORPG I've ever played.
Actually, WoW IS a good game, this is proven by the reviews, awards and the fact it holds over half of the mmorpg subscriber market. You have nothing to back up your statement that the game wasn't made for gamers. the game is for the biggest part based on Everquest, and, unless you want to claim Everquest isn't made for gamers eithers, then your theory is flawed.
How can you tell me I have nothing to back up my statement when you simply keep saying the same thing over and over and over that's based on the amount of players.
You're backwards here.
Now make another post that says:
"WoW is a good game because it has alot of players."
Reviews mean jack. Reviews go with what's in fasion. When things go out of fasion, reviews go down.
Everquest was a decent game. It lead the way. But, it did some things much differently. Blizzard basically took the good parts out and made it so anyone 8-80 could play.
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How can you tell me I have nothing to back up my statement when you simply keep saying the same thing over and over and over that's based on the amount of players.
You're backwards here.
Now make another post that says:
"WoW is a good game because it has alot of players."
Reviews mean jack. Reviews go with what's in fasion. When things go out of fasion, reviews go down.
Everquest was a decent game. It lead the way. But, it did some things much differently. Blizzard basically took the good parts out and made it so anyone 8-80 could play.
Reviews hardly mean jack. They are written by people who are dedicated to games, who know what the heck they are talking about. saying that all reviewers are corrupt is rediculous, and again, you have nothing to back up that statement. WoW IS a good game because of the amount of players. 7, 5 million players enjoy the game, its the only game that is popular in both the west and the east.
Everquest didn't do so much diffrent. WoW is an improved version of Everquest with exp X5
At least I bring in the facts. you bring nothing but your own opinion and experience of the game.
Saying 7,5 million people, reviewers and award givers are wrong, and that your right, is rediculous.
you can yell that "this isn't good and that isn't good" but thats merely your opinion. not a fact. WoW does not have the features you are looking for,just like the game you play doesn't offer the features WoW players are looking for. but that doesn't make WoW a bad game. its NOT for everyone
Or World of Diablo :P
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
No, they redesigned a game that already had a huge success and threw their name on it.
Copying something is not good. There is nothing in WoW that makes it a "good" game. Addicting is not good. The easy level advancements makes it addicting, you can't wait to get to the next level so you play play play, then you make the next level.
They made it for ppl who weren't gamers, to hook people who weren't gamers. That's a good marketing technique but that does not make it a good game. The only thing in WoW that I would consider "good" if not exceptional, is the programming. WoW has the least bugs of any MMORPG I've ever played.
Actually, WoW IS a good game, this is proven by the reviews, awards and the fact it holds over half of the mmorpg subscriber market. You have nothing to back up your statement that the game wasn't made for gamers. the game is for the biggest part based on Everquest, and, unless you want to claim Everquest isn't made for gamers eithers, then your theory is flawed.
You're assuming that a good game is something that sells well. It's not. I suppose you think Britney Spears is a good artist too then?
As for your 'proof', reveiws can be bought. Look at all the reveiws for WoW too. "It's easy to get into", "it's nice". The reveiws are all full of blank phrases. The reveiws are so half assed too. Here's direct quotes from gamespot:
"Here is the online role-playing game you should play, no matter who you are."
Haha! That's the summery for the game. Such a unbiased, decriptive title. You can tell whoever made that was soooo not paid off.
"Huge, beautiful, seamless world"
Hahaha! Go look at WoW's contemporaries. WoW was pathetic for it's time.
"action-packed combat"
If you like paying $15 pressing an auto-attack button then pressing several special skill buttons when they light up!
As for it's awards, plenty of bad things win awards. How many music award shows are there anymore? Are you going to claim that because some generic Raper won an award that they are better then Betoven or Sinatra. When awards are yearly then mean practicaly nothing.
And while WoW does hold half of the MMORPG subscriber market, it is important to note that they do not hold half of the American subscriber market. Over half their customer base in Asia. A game is messured by different standerd in Asia than in America because of vastly different cultures. You really shouldn't throw them into one lot.
And to back up Snakey's statement. WoW was not made for gamers. Read any reveiw of the game. They will state that it was made so that anyone can pick up the game and play it. Some even go as far as to litterately say that it was made for people who don't normally play MMOs and or video games.
Everquest was made for the gamers of the MMO market. In it's development, it attempted to bring new ideas to the market. It made advancements from the generation before it. WoW however, came after Everquest. The devs of WoW adressed none of the issue that plagued the gamers of EQ unlike the devs of EQ who had adressed the concerns of earlier MMO games. Since WoW ignored games of the EQ generation of game, it can be said that the game was not made for gamers.
Still about 4 million subs come from Asia, primarily China which has a different payment structure then the US. I would expect that combined they are making 760 million. Still more then any other mmo.
The only one who comes close in NCSoft at about 300 million.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
Quite a few bad misspellings, but over all... nicely put Distortion0.
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