Originally posted by Banegrivm Pure ignorance huh? So thats why I backed up my opinion with facts. Sorry you can't cope with the fact that someone has an opinion/belief that differs from yours. Not everyone in life is going to agree with you, and if you can't learn that now you're only setting yourself up for alot of hurt down the road. If these forums had an ignore function you'lld already know what I think about your "attention".
What facts? You have offered no proof that CCP or WW are strapped for cash several people have showed you that the companies are growing. Are you truly that dense? You have no place in the gaming industry you are a wanna be designer that has a guild that is loathed for its questionable practices.
Originally posted by Banegrivm As per your request Mcreag about Eve and it's "RPG" status. In their own writing no less. Thats definitely interesting reading more about the story of Eve and the events. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like what your telling me is that there is alot of PvP/RP oriented events, which me being a big PvP'er that sounds like it would be alot of fun. I'm curious though, as I never saw it while I played, do they have actual GM events where GM's get involved and push story into the game and players can interact with?
Eve is a pvp game from the buttom up. There is a fun video from the 2005 fanfest where one of the devs says that when eve was designed it did not include npc. They where added in early beta because of player request and to distinguish different security status a bit.
Yes there are GM (or event staff, in eve GMs only handle petitions) run events as well. Events where the player can actually choose sides and effect how the event will end. One example of would be the Sisters of EVE (sort of unisef or red cross of eve) relief convoy where the convoy itself was flown by event staff but was both guarded and attacked by players. Did not take part of that event myself so I don't remember if it ever reached its destination (but I think it was Mercenary Coalition that guarded it which means it most likely made it there, those guys know what they are doing).
As for believing hellmars statement, it's not like he is saying they have around 150k players or other generalities like we are doing good which others like smedly does. He is listing the exact numbers of paying customers (145.095), the exact number of active trial accounts (20.060), the exact number of accounts ever made trial and non trial (1.145.606) and the exact number of sold copies (373.904) (ie payed for accounts). And is also listing the exact number for last year which is about half of this year in all categories but employees which is 1/3.
The only thing he isn't listing exactly is the monthly revenue which is listed as >2 million USD.
And as said earlier the eve server show how many people are online at any time and using the figure for 20-25% of playerbase being online at primetime which seems to be industry avg if you do the math you will end up around these number. This while not proof makes the numbers more credible.
Also while SOE is famous for not communicating with it's customers and lie to them CCP is famous for the opposite. For example when the server crashes you know that within an hour of they knowing the reason the server admin will have made a post on the forum describing exactly why it happens (one of the last times it was a bug in the db code in a hotfix that made the db use up all the available item ids, when those ran out the server crashed). It's just part of the general openness that CCP show to their customer. There is a reason they where voted best company in the last MMORPG poll.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Frankly, the sub numbers, employees, new office, etc. doesn't tell me much about the financial shape. They can be increasing in all of those areas, and still go broke.
Well.. They still have to pay for this. It shows that they have money. It's not like you can walk into the bank and just get $10.000.000 or something. They havent gotten any additional funding from before the launch of EVE so we know that all those things are payed for from subscription money. Remember that after taxes it's around $1.000.000 a month into their pocket.
The only one that knows is the tax man, and they won't talk.
Actually what you pay in taxes is public information in Iceland. It's just a bit of a hazzle to find it since you have to show up at the tax office. But I do remember that CCP is actually the 4th largest export company in Iceland.
Originally posted by Banegrivm Pure ignorance huh? So thats why I backed up my opinion with facts. Sorry you can't cope with the fact that someone has an opinion/belief that differs from yours. Not everyone in life is going to agree with you, and if you can't learn that now you're only setting yourself up for alot of hurt down the road. If these forums had an ignore function you'lld already know what I think about your "attention".
What facts? You have offered no proof that CCP or WW are strapped for cash several people have showed you that the companies are growing. Are you truly that dense? You have no place in the gaming industry you are a wanna be designer that has a guild that is loathed for its questionable practices.
Seriousley guy seek help for yoru reality issues.
It seems that YOU are the one that is trying to hide something, not Bane.
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
For my part, I don't really care if they lie. Everybody lies in this business, especially in a way that makes them look better than they are. I'm just afraid that someday, you'll hear from Kieron, "Congrats! 50,000 online at one time," followed by a comment from Oveur saying, "EVE goes bankrupt."
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 1) Oveur is making shit up. 2) It is not a crime, because we are not investors. 3) Subscriptions aren't subscribers, but the number of subscriptions are called subscribers because it looks like the game is more popular than it really may be.
Was not oveur it was hellmar the CEO and all games ever listing numbers make no difference between subscribers and subscriptions because it's not practically possible. WoW list 7m players but that is again 7m subscriptions. You are just bending words for your own agenda as usual.
Btw here is the slide shown at the fanfest this weekend (sorry about the quality, it's a screengrab from live streamed video):
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
So the answer from you and Bane is just that this is just all an elaborate lie.
Sounds a bit like you two are grasping at straws. Or conspiracy nuts. Either way despicable.
It seems that YOU are the one that is trying to hide something, not Bane.
And how have I done that? By pointing to the facts of CCps growth? Maybe it was showing through investor relations that WW has actually turned a profit? (all while Bane continues to spew BS ).
Guess bane found a 1st fist buddy to back him up seeing as how he was being made an ass of
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
For my part, I don't really care if they lie. Everybody lies in this business, especially in a way that makes them look better than they are. I'm just afraid that someday, you'll hear from Kieron, "Congrats! 50,000 online at one time," followed by a comment from Oveur saying, "EVE goes bankrupt."
A cash grab in China? You mean expanding their territory? LOL Guy put the bong down.
Making it all up, yes and JFK is really fighting Ninjas with Jimmy Hendrix...do you have any proof? No you dont. The CCP haters are a hilarious bunch but you guy really take the cake.
Originally posted by Mcgreag You are just bending words for your own agenda as usual.
What is my agenda?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
No, No guy it's all an elaborate ruse!!! CCP is just a front for the demise of the Table top game industry, in fact thier isn't an EvE there never was an EvE.
Originally posted by Mcgreag
Originally posted by Beatnik59 1) Oveur is making shit up. 2) It is not a crime, because we are not investors. 3) Subscriptions aren't subscribers, but the number of subscriptions are called subscribers because it looks like the game is more popular than it really may be.
Was not oveur it was hellmar the CEO and all games ever listing numbers make no difference between subscribers and subscriptions because it's not practically possible. WoW list 7m players but that is again 7m subscriptions. You are just bending words for your own agenda as usual.
Btw here is the slide shown at the fanfest this weekend (sorry about the quality, it's a screengrab from live streamed video):
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Mcgreag You are just bending words for your own agenda as usual.
What is my agenda? That you know best yourself. But is was a long time (several months) since I last saw a post from you concerning eve that was not an attempt to spread lies and conspiracy theories about it.
Once upon a time you used to post constructive criticism that was interesting to read even if I didn't agree with it. These days it's just drivel and conspiracy theories. What happen? Someone hijacked your account and it's not really Beatnik59 posting anymore?
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Well to bring this thread back on track and for those who want to this is the links to the videos for the announcement of the Merger at CCP fanfest. Drawl your own conclusion from what these guys say (the first 2 are amoung the most important)
Originally posted by Mcgreag You are just bending words for your own agenda as usual.
What is my agenda?
That you know best yourself. But is was a long time (several months) since I last saw a post from you concerning eve that was not an attempt to spread lies and conspiracy theories about it.
Once upon a time you used to post constructive criticism that was interesting to read even if I didn't agree with it. These days it's just drivel and conspiracy theories. What happen? Someone hijacked your account and it's not really Beatnik59 posting anymore?
Whatever it is, the performance just isn't there, they did it on the cheap, or they just didn't do enough. I played on the old stuff, and the new stuff. Too many hangs, crashes, lag, and chugs these days, and you don't even need me to tell it.
The problem with the EVE lobby here that I found out really fast is that it is no use being polite in making negative comments. Any little thing anyone says about the game that doesn't claim it as the most perfect game makes you "the enemy" to them.
So that's why I don't really care about being fair to EVE anymore, in a way that the EVE fans would respect. Any criticism, no matter how small, makes you a target for their flame posse (probably even given freee GTCs for doing so). All they care about is getting another $20 non-refundable from as many people as they can before they shut down.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
/Smirk you can insert the name of any MMORPG in your genric little rant. You feel that EvE or the community somehow wronged you, I get that but don't you think it makes you look...simple to be reacting to it like this?
I have been playing since beta one and have had less performance issues than I have had with games like EQ II or WoW, of course I understand that a PC isn't a PS2.
As for as the community goes yes any community is going to get pissed when you make shit up about their game. I also wouldn't hold your breath about EvE shutting down as long as the growth cycle continues it will be part of the MMO landscape. I understand that pisses off those with out the I.Q. to play EvE, but as I said everything can't be the Jerry Springer show....hell we have WoW for that audience
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Whatever it is, the performance just isn't there, they did it on the cheap, or they just didn't do enough. I played on the old stuff, and the new stuff. Too many hangs, crashes, lag, and chugs these days, and you don't even need me to tell it.
The problem with the EVE lobby here that I found out really fast is that it is no use being polite in making negative comments. Any little thing anyone says about the game that doesn't claim it as the most perfect game makes you "the enemy" to them.
So that's why I don't really care about being fair to EVE anymore, in a way that the EVE fans would respect. Any criticism, no matter how small, makes you a target for their flame posse (probably even given freee GTCs for doing so). All they care about is getting another $20 non-refundable from as many people as they can before they shut down.
*yawn* Yeah, bashing on other games, while saying their players don't have what it takes to play yours always worked marvel to interest people in your games.
Originally posted by Holyavenger1 *yawn* Yeah, bashing on other games, while saying their players don't have what it takes to play yours always worked marvel to interest people in your games.
*shrug*
I don't work for CCP's PR department, my job isn't to maximize their player count or revenue.
My goal is to maximize the fun that I have while playing a game. Since my fun is in large part affected by the number of whiny little children playing, who currently infest most MMOGs like a medieval plague, it would make sense to convince the largest number of those people to either not play or quit.
In short: I don't care if you're interested, and I don't care if you walk around telling all your friends that EVE sucks.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Whatever it is, the performance just isn't there, they did it on the cheap, or they just didn't do enough. I played on the old stuff, and the new stuff. Too many hangs, crashes, lag, and chugs these days, and you don't even need me to tell it.
I was there they day they installed the ramsan as well and I noticed a serious increase in server responsiveness. But since that day the eve population has doubled and just installing more hardware doesn't solve all problems. There was an interesting speech on the 2005 fanfest about the node problem. There is a maximum number of nodes you can have before performance starts to drop because there are info that needs to be transmitted to all other nodes. Not all problems can be solved by pouring money on them.
Currently there are several changes on the test server as part of kali that will help with the performance problems. Some of these are not so popular with all players. Namely they are changes and limitations to gang hierarchy and warp to 0m which removes the needs for gate to gate bookmarks.
Do eve have performance problems in fleet battles? Yes. Will CCP be able to solve these problems? Maybe, time will tell. Will eve continue to grow despite these problems? Yes and this is why these conspiracy theories about bankruptcy are so ridiculous . Eve has had the same problems for a year now and during that year the population has doubled. So for most people it's not a problem (most people are not involved in fleet battles). During that year CCP has managed to lower the problems for none fleet battles and kept the fleet battle problem at the same level despite the player increase. That is proof that they are doing something, just that something is currently just enough to keep up with the population growth and not being able to be proactive.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Yes more" proof" WW and CCP are going bankrupt....
I spoke with Bill Slaviscek over the weekend, for those of you who don't know. Bill is the head of Role-playing research for Wizards of the coast, and the Director of Games research for Hasbro Inc. Bill also created the Alternity series for TSR/WoTC one of the most critically acclaimed RPG's since VtM . (WoTc stopped producing Alternity because Hasbros relationship with Lucasfilm.) He's going to be leaving that cushy position to work exclusively for CCP/WW developing their RPG., I serioulsey doubt he will be taking a pay cut.
I mentioned to him that some folks were concerned that the company was in finical trouble, after he stopped laughing he assured me that both companies had plenty of capitol to continue for the next several years on their own not to mention together. Besides being a fantastic Sc- Fi author Bill has a master of economics from Perdue university, I will take his word over the word of a wanna-be game designer/failed guild leader any day.
I think that pretty much takes care of the conspiracy theorist and haters. Bill made a really good observation in our conversation, some folks are scared of EvE CCP is that bootstrap company that has literally come out of nowhere and has won award after award and has steadily gained an audience by continually improving their product. Large MMO developers have lost some of thier top people to them, and they have rejected buy out offers from the likes of SOE, Microsoft and EA, but it goes beyond that I think.
What scares folks is that EvE is a true virtual society; this frontier is much more appealing for many than running up to a disneyesque vendor to get generic loot. (All while tollerating a hundred drooling tards spamming your channel about Chuck Norris) Eve has hard consequences and a take no prisoners attitude, this is why many Role-Players are "discovering" it. I always said if you take five WoW or EQ fans four of them will tell you ten things wrong with their games, if you take five EvE fans they will tell you ten things right with their game, that is the difference and that is why EvE is gaining in popularity and scaring the hell out of the competition and their fanbois.
Like I told your friend martin, feel free to go look at the MMO Charts site. You'll see they have a whole 1 percent of the market share. That's not much in the way of growth really. As I also stated many times over while citing examples that are easy enough to check up on, the table top gaming industry is in hard hard times. Many analysts don't think the industry is going to survive at the rate its going, and that the only people left in the end will be people like White Wolf who are now acquired, and Hasbro/WoTC. As to how it works, I know exactly how it works. Are you aware of the logistics, the costs of running a business, buildings, permits, licences, staff requirements, properties, etc. that all add up to operating expenses? Add into that the capacity of the fact that they have to make a profit after covering costs of doing business. I'm glad you take the words of Hilmar verbatim, but thats hardly a fact. Thats a statement, nothing more, nothing less. Seeing is believing. I know what I see with my own eyes and I'm quite clear and capable of making decisions based off of what I see. You know, just not long ago Smedley said how SWG was going to dethrone WoW. Still waiting on that one. Again, seeing is believing. I'm not entirely discounting Hilmar's statements, but I don't believe it either.
If you look back in the MMOCharts site to the previous report, EVE was sitting at 0.9% market share and 0.7% market share before that, so even this 1% figure you're so keen on bringing up is showing clear growth for CCP.
Originally posted by martinj63 Yes more" proof" WW and CCP are going bankrupt.... I spoke with Bill Slaviscek over the weekend, for those of you who don't know. Bill is the head of Role-playing research for Wizards of the coast, and the Director of Games research for Hasbro Inc. Bill also created the Alternity series for TSR/WoTC one of the most critically acclaimed RPG's since VtM . (WoTc stopped producing Alternity because Hasbros relationship with Lucasfilm.) He's going to be leaving that cushy position to work exclusively for CCP/WW developing their RPG., I serioulsey doubt he will be taking a pay cut. I mentioned to him that some folks were concerned that the company was in finical trouble, after he stopped laughing he assured me that both companies had plenty of capitol to continue for the next several years on their own not to mention together. Besides being a fantastic Sc- Fi author Bill has a master of economics from Perdue university, I will take his word over the word of a wanna-be game designer/failed guild leader any day. I think that pretty much takes care of the conspiracy theorist and haters. Bill made a really good observation in our conversation, some folks are scared of EvE CCP is that bootstrap company that has literally come out of nowhere and has won award after award and has steadily gained an audience by continually improving their product. Large MMO developers have lost some of thier top people to them, and they have rejected buy out offers from the likes of SOE, Microsoft and EA, but it goes beyond that I think. What scares folks is that EvE is a true virtual society; this frontier is much more appealing for many than running up to a disneyesque vendor to get generic loot. (All while tollerating a hundred drooling tards spamming your channel about Chuck Norris) Eve has hard consequences and a take no prisoners attitude, this is why many Role-Players are "discovering" it. I always said if you take five WoW or EQ fans four of them will tell you ten things wrong with their games, if you take five EvE fans they will tell you ten things right with their game, that is the difference and that is why EvE is gaining in popularity and scaring the hell out of the competition and their fanbois.
Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by martinj63
Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
Beatnik the only thing you ever post is wild speculation and a bunch of fucked-up conspiracy theories about how CCP is out to 'get us' and they are purposely lying to their playerbase while putting on a face of being friendly and sincere.
Apparently someone at CCP ran over your dog or something and now you have some vendetta against them but whatever. Your arguments are weak and easily dismissed.
Wow ...just wow. I would find that insutling if it wasn't so damn funny. Street team Huckleberry? How long did it take to pull that gem out of your ass?
Oh amd you really should join your friend Bane and seek therapy. I tell you what keep wearing the tinfoil hat because EvE is trying to steal your brainwaves.
Can't type anymore laughing too hard.
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed. According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price. According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%. Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped. It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today. So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide. The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV. You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
If you want to spin useless numbers so can I. 1.145.606 account created. First we remove at least 1/3 because they don't belong to new unique people. For example people who tested the game once on trial and made a new one to test again after some patch or actual players who made them to troll the forums, macro mine, laundry RMT money, gank noobs, scout gate camps, participate in rells pvp university or any of the other countless uses of a trial. Remember it's very easy to create a trial account in eve. I have 4-5 myself.
That leaves around 750k accounts. Now we look at the number of payed for accounts, 373.904. That means that close to 50% of all people who tested eve bought it. And 40% of all people who ever payed for eve is still playing it.
I don't have much to compare with (because CCP is the only company in the business that release these numbers) but I very much doubt many other mmorpgs can show numbers that good.
Now please show me the proof or even indication that you say you have the numbers will begin to fall. It's possible or even probable that player increase will slow down (remember that is has been increasing on a logarithmic scale so far) but until the actual subscribers starts so drop you have no case and all I have seen indicate that this won't happen for another 3 years at least.
Then we have the time from when it start to decline until it shuts down. And again looking at the rest of the mmorpgs out there it will take until it drops down to around 1/3 of its peek subscribers before it shuts down. That should take another 3 years which means we have at least 6 more years of eve ahead probably a lot more.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
"Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world."
Finally! I knew it would happen eventually, I am so glad it is CCP that teamed up with White Wolf. Although I don't play EVE, I know that it is a high quality mmorpg. I wouldn't expect any less from White Wolf, and I absoluately can't wait for World of Darkness. I am such a huge fan of the table-top RPG. Over the years, I've been roleplaying in Vampire: The Masquerade and other White Wolf games.
Comments
What facts? You have offered no proof that CCP or WW are strapped for cash several people have showed you that the companies are growing. Are you truly that dense? You have no place in the gaming industry you are a wanna be designer that has a guild that is loathed for its questionable practices.
Seriousley guy seek help for your reality issues.
Yes there are GM (or event staff, in eve GMs only handle petitions) run events as well. Events where the player can actually choose sides and effect how the event will end. One example of would be the Sisters of EVE (sort of unisef or red cross of eve) relief convoy where the convoy itself was flown by event staff but was both guarded and attacked by players. Did not take part of that event myself so I don't remember if it ever reached its destination (but I think it was Mercenary Coalition that guarded it which means it most likely made it there, those guys know what they are doing).
As for believing hellmars statement, it's not like he is saying they have around 150k players or other generalities like we are doing good which others like smedly does. He is listing the exact numbers of paying customers (145.095), the exact number of active trial accounts (20.060), the exact number of accounts ever made trial and non trial (1.145.606) and the exact number of sold copies (373.904) (ie payed for accounts). And is also listing the exact number for last year which is about half of this year in all categories but employees which is 1/3.
The only thing he isn't listing exactly is the monthly revenue which is listed as >2 million USD.
And as said earlier the eve server show how many people are online at any time and using the figure for 20-25% of playerbase being online at primetime which seems to be industry avg if you do the math you will end up around these number. This while not proof makes the numbers more credible.
Also while SOE is famous for not communicating with it's customers and lie to them CCP is famous for the opposite. For example when the server crashes you know that within an hour of they knowing the reason the server admin will have made a post on the forum describing exactly why it happens (one of the last times it was a bug in the db code in a hotfix that made the db use up all the available item ids, when those ran out the server crashed). It's just part of the general openness that CCP show to their customer. There is a reason they where voted best company in the last MMORPG poll.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Actually what you pay in taxes is public information in Iceland. It's just a bit of a hazzle to find it since you have to show up at the tax office. But I do remember that CCP is actually the 4th largest export company in Iceland.What facts? You have offered no proof that CCP or WW are strapped for cash several people have showed you that the companies are growing. Are you truly that dense? You have no place in the gaming industry you are a wanna be designer that has a guild that is loathed for its questionable practices.
Seriousley guy seek help for yoru reality issues.
It seems that YOU are the one that is trying to hide something, not Bane.
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
For my part, I don't really care if they lie. Everybody lies in this business, especially in a way that makes them look better than they are. I'm just afraid that someday, you'll hear from Kieron, "Congrats! 50,000 online at one time," followed by a comment from Oveur saying, "EVE goes bankrupt."
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Btw here is the slide shown at the fanfest this weekend (sorry about the quality, it's a screengrab from live streamed video):
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Sounds a bit like you two are grasping at straws. Or conspiracy nuts. Either way despicable.
It seems that YOU are the one that is trying to hide something, not Bane.
And how have I done that? By pointing to the facts of CCps growth? Maybe it was showing through investor relations that WW has actually turned a profit? (all while Bane continues to spew BS ).
Guess bane found a 1st fist buddy to back him up seeing as how he was being made an ass of
The actions of CCP over the last year do not indicate to me any strength. Hardly any content was produced in the last year. They dropped everything for a cash grab in China. They are making out of the blue deals with Viviox, and Microsoft Vista. They can talk a lot about hardware, and code rebalancing, but how do we know...really know that they aren't making that all up?
For my part, I don't really care if they lie. Everybody lies in this business, especially in a way that makes them look better than they are. I'm just afraid that someday, you'll hear from Kieron, "Congrats! 50,000 online at one time," followed by a comment from Oveur saying, "EVE goes bankrupt."
A cash grab in China? You mean expanding their territory? LOL Guy put the bong down.
Making it all up, yes and JFK is really fighting Ninjas with Jimmy Hendrix...do you have any proof? No you dont. The CCP haters are a hilarious bunch but you guy really take the cake.
/Passes out tin foil hats.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Btw here is the slide shown at the fanfest this weekend (sorry about the quality, it's a screengrab from live streamed video):
That you know best yourself. But is was a long time (several months) since I last saw a post from you concerning eve that was not an attempt to spread lies and conspiracy theories about it.
No ramsan you say, guess that means that the makers of the ramsan is also part of this global conspiracy.
http://www.superssd.com/success/ccpgames.htm
Once upon a time you used to post constructive criticism that was interesting to read even if I didn't agree with it. These days it's just drivel and conspiracy theories. What happen? Someone hijacked your account and it's not really Beatnik59 posting anymore?
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Well to bring this thread back on track and for those who want to this is the links to the videos for the announcement of the Merger at CCP fanfest. Drawl your own conclusion from what these guys say (the first 2 are amoung the most important)
EVE fanfest videos
now I'll copy the urls for the individual videos for those that want to cur and paste
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1800.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1815.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1830.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1845.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1900.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1915.avi
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0611/eve-11nov-1930.avi
and for those torrent happy
http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/908312/EveFanFest2006
That you know best yourself. But is was a long time (several months) since I last saw a post from you concerning eve that was not an attempt to spread lies and conspiracy theories about it.
No ramsan you say, guess that means that the makers of the ramsan is also part of this global conspiracy.
http://www.superssd.com/success/ccpgames.htm
Once upon a time you used to post constructive criticism that was interesting to read even if I didn't agree with it. These days it's just drivel and conspiracy theories. What happen? Someone hijacked your account and it's not really Beatnik59 posting anymore?
Whatever it is, the performance just isn't there, they did it on the cheap, or they just didn't do enough. I played on the old stuff, and the new stuff. Too many hangs, crashes, lag, and chugs these days, and you don't even need me to tell it.
The problem with the EVE lobby here that I found out really fast is that it is no use being polite in making negative comments. Any little thing anyone says about the game that doesn't claim it as the most perfect game makes you "the enemy" to them.
So that's why I don't really care about being fair to EVE anymore, in a way that the EVE fans would respect. Any criticism, no matter how small, makes you a target for their flame posse (probably even given freee GTCs for doing so). All they care about is getting another $20 non-refundable from as many people as they can before they shut down.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Whatever it is, the performance just isn't there, they did it on the cheap, or they just didn't do enough. I played on the old stuff, and the new stuff. Too many hangs, crashes, lag, and chugs these days, and you don't even need me to tell it.
The problem with the EVE lobby here that I found out really fast is that it is no use being polite in making negative comments. Any little thing anyone says about the game that doesn't claim it as the most perfect game makes you "the enemy" to them.
So that's why I don't really care about being fair to EVE anymore, in a way that the EVE fans would respect. Any criticism, no matter how small, makes you a target for their flame posse (probably even given freee GTCs for doing so). All they care about is getting another $20 non-refundable from as many people as they can before they shut down.
*shrug*
http://www.expansion.net.ua
My goal is to maximize the fun that I have while playing a game. Since my fun is in large part affected by the number of whiny little children playing, who currently infest most MMOGs like a medieval plague, it would make sense to convince the largest number of those people to either not play or quit.
In short: I don't care if you're interested, and I don't care if you walk around telling all your friends that EVE sucks.
Currently there are several changes on the test server as part of kali that will help with the performance problems. Some of these are not so popular with all players. Namely they are changes and limitations to gang hierarchy and warp to 0m which removes the needs for gate to gate bookmarks.
Do eve have performance problems in fleet battles? Yes. Will CCP be able to solve these problems? Maybe, time will tell. Will eve continue to grow despite these problems? Yes and this is why these conspiracy theories about bankruptcy are so ridiculous . Eve has had the same problems for a year now and during that year the population has doubled. So for most people it's not a problem (most people are not involved in fleet battles). During that year CCP has managed to lower the problems for none fleet battles and kept the fleet battle problem at the same level despite the player increase. That is proof that they are doing something, just that something is currently just enough to keep up with the population growth and not being able to be proactive.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Yes more" proof" WW and CCP are going bankrupt....
I spoke with Bill Slaviscek over the weekend, for those of you who don't know. Bill is the head of Role-playing research for Wizards of the coast, and the Director of Games research for Hasbro Inc. Bill also created the Alternity series for TSR/WoTC one of the most critically acclaimed RPG's since VtM . (WoTc stopped producing Alternity because Hasbros relationship with Lucasfilm.) He's going to be leaving that cushy position to work exclusively for CCP/WW developing their RPG., I serioulsey doubt he will be taking a pay cut.
I mentioned to him that some folks were concerned that the company was in finical trouble, after he stopped laughing he assured me that both companies had plenty of capitol to continue for the next several years on their own not to mention together. Besides being a fantastic Sc- Fi author Bill has a master of economics from Perdue university, I will take his word over the word of a wanna-be game designer/failed guild leader any day.
I think that pretty much takes care of the conspiracy theorist and haters. Bill made a really good observation in our conversation, some folks are scared of EvE CCP is that bootstrap company that has literally come out of nowhere and has won award after award and has steadily gained an audience by continually improving their product. Large MMO developers have lost some of thier top people to them, and they have rejected buy out offers from the likes of SOE, Microsoft and EA, but it goes beyond that I think.
What scares folks is that EvE is a true virtual society; this frontier is much more appealing for many than running up to a disneyesque vendor to get generic loot. (All while tollerating a hundred drooling tards spamming your channel about Chuck Norris) Eve has hard consequences and a take no prisoners attitude, this is why many Role-Players are "discovering" it. I always said if you take five WoW or EQ fans four of them will tell you ten things wrong with their games, if you take five EvE fans they will tell you ten things right with their game, that is the difference and that is why EvE is gaining in popularity and scaring the hell out of the competition and their fanbois.
I told your friend martin, feel free to go look at the MMO Charts site.
You'll see they have a whole 1 percent of the market share. That's not
much in the way of growth really. As I also stated many times over
while citing examples that are easy enough to check up on, the table
top gaming industry is in hard hard times. Many analysts don't think
the industry is going to survive at the rate its going, and that the
only people left in the end will be people like White Wolf who are now
acquired, and Hasbro/WoTC. As to how it works, I know exactly how it
works. Are you aware of the logistics, the costs of running a business,
buildings, permits, licences, staff requirements, properties, etc. that
all add up to operating expenses? Add into that the capacity of the
fact that they have to make a profit after covering costs of doing
business. I'm glad you take the words of Hilmar verbatim, but thats
hardly a fact. Thats a statement, nothing more, nothing less. Seeing is
believing. I know what I see with my own eyes and I'm quite clear and
capable of making decisions based off of what I see. You know, just not
long ago Smedley said how SWG was going to dethrone WoW. Still waiting
on that one. Again, seeing is believing. I'm not entirely discounting
Hilmar's statements, but I don't believe it either.
If
you look back in the MMOCharts site to the previous report, EVE was
sitting at 0.9% market share and 0.7% market share before that, so even
this 1% figure you're so keen on bringing up is showing clear growth
for CCP.
Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Nobody
is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old.
Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell
itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and
subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According
to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the
client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed
today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new
registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions
today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in
actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It
seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but
the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs,
and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm
not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from
CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you
martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed
with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The
well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has
been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with
"beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because
they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already
looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a
matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi
model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that
they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the
Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
Beatnik the only thing you ever post is wild speculation and a bunch of
fucked-up conspiracy theories about how CCP is out to 'get us' and they
are purposely lying to their playerbase while putting on a face of
being friendly and sincere.
Apparently someone at CCP ran
over your dog or something and now you have some vendetta against them
but whatever. Your arguments are weak and easily dismissed.
Nobody is scared of EVE in this business. Its three years old. Every year it gets older, there will be less people for it to sell itself to who haven't already tried it and rejected it, or tried it and subscribed.
According to the above figures, only one out of every four new accounts bought the $20 box price.
According to the above figures, registered accounts (those who download the client and just rose by 177%, but the number of people who are subbed today only rose by 93%.
Less than ten percent of those new registered accounts actually translate into the number of subscriptions today, but of course, given churn, the numbers may be higher in actuality, but that also would imply that veteran players have dropped.
It seems from what I saw that a whole lot of people have tried EVE, but the problem is that not too many of those trials have turned to subs, and not too many of those new subs are subscribed today.
So I'm not really certain that I can trust someone who is taking checks from CCP/WW, talking to a fanboi/street team huckleberry like you martinj63. In fact, it is starting to look like you are obsessed with discrediting criticism, because there is something to hide.
The well is starting to look dry, expenses are too high, and progress has been stifled for the sake of placating a minority of subscribers with "beer and circus," aka EVE TV.
You see, CCP is scared, because they know that as soon as the numbers begin to fall (and it already looks like it may get that way in the next year or so), it is only a matter of time before financial insolvency. Its built on a ponzi model, and when people start to see a decline, they'll be worried that they'll never get that T2 HAC trained up to level 5, or get to fly the Titan, and they'll start to leave for games that aren't so stale.
Man, you just see wath you want to see.
EvE have 3 years never had a drop in subscriptions it was allweys growing.
Now go to mmorpgchart.com and tell me how many games after 2 years didnt have a drop in subscripions.
I will tell you only 3 games EQ1(add a drop after 2 years but got up again), FFXI and lineage1.
Now explain me how a game with 3 years never droped in subscriptions and doble in subs on last year.
I can tell you they have the best grafics on mmo market, and they impruve them(take a look at EVE wen vista patch goes live),
They never stoped to impruve servers with new ardware. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=392
they never gave up on their game(like mitik with DAoC, EA with E&B, Turbine with AC2, funcom with AO) and they add only 30k subs wen eve was relesed,
Costumers trust CCP, they talk to us,
All the changes they have made, just made the game beter.
They dont make games tring to copy susecefull brands like wow or eq, they did something no one belived.
Won favoutite game,best pvp,best company,best grafics on this site, won best mmorpg on http://www.mmhell.com/, best grafics on gamespy.You can see much more here http://www.eve-online.com/community/awards.asp and here http://www.eve-online.com/community/reviews.asp
They are the vanguard of mmo´s one server for all their population, no levels, space ships, EVE magazine(EON)... ...EVE TV...
See future expantions walk on stations, walk on planets...
EVE will not stop to grow, it will be uge.
Call me a fan boy, but if you dont see this you are blind
That leaves around 750k accounts. Now we look at the number of payed for accounts, 373.904. That means that close to 50% of all people who tested eve bought it. And 40% of all people who ever payed for eve is still playing it.
I don't have much to compare with (because CCP is the only company in the business that release these numbers) but I very much doubt many other mmorpgs can show numbers that good.
Now please show me the proof or even indication that you say you have the numbers will begin to fall. It's possible or even probable that player increase will slow down (remember that is has been increasing on a logarithmic scale so far) but until the actual subscribers starts so drop you have no case and all I have seen indicate that this won't happen for another 3 years at least.
Then we have the time from when it start to decline until it shuts down. And again looking at the rest of the mmorpgs out there it will take until it drops down to around 1/3 of its peek subscribers before it shuts down. That should take another 3 years which means we have at least 6 more years of eve ahead probably a lot more.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
OMG!
"Conceptualization and early development has begun to bring White Wolf's World of Darkness, one of the world's strongest gaming properties, into the online world."
Finally! I knew it would happen eventually, I am so glad it is CCP that teamed up with White Wolf. Although I don't play EVE, I know that it is a high quality mmorpg. I wouldn't expect any less from White Wolf, and I absoluately can't wait for World of Darkness. I am such a huge fan of the table-top RPG. Over the years, I've been roleplaying in Vampire: The Masquerade and other White Wolf games.
That's World of DARKNESS, people, not Warcraft.