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Vanguard = Grindfest?
KaotiX
Member Posts: 47
What's the difference - if any - between Vanguard and World of
Grindquest III: Another Boring Fantasy MMOG (And the Return of the Evil
Mage)?
I mean, is this all about clicking on endless little monsters through
hours and hours and watching them being slaughtered by your little
warrior (that, by the way, is almost equal to every other little
warrior in the game)?
Is there any REAL player skill envolved? Fun or addicting? Roleplaying potential?
I just don't see what's the hype all about.
Grindquest III: Another Boring Fantasy MMOG (And the Return of the Evil
Mage)?
I mean, is this all about clicking on endless little monsters through
hours and hours and watching them being slaughtered by your little
warrior (that, by the way, is almost equal to every other little
warrior in the game)?
Is there any REAL player skill envolved? Fun or addicting? Roleplaying potential?
I just don't see what's the hype all about.
From Wikipedia:
"[The apostrophe] assists in marking the possessives of all nouns and many pronouns."
"For the plural of abbreviations, an apostrophe is widely regarded as incorrect, so CDs is preferable to CDs."
Comments
You have to understand that you don't just get better with a sword, but that each character has a Combat, Crafting and Diplomacy Sphere. A beta tester who wrote a long article about crafting showed how it wasnt just a stressful search for resources and a boring click frezy for eight months, but that it was actually very fun and he even called it addicting. A player has to actually manage one's energy to use it as effectively as possible in order to get points for one of four grades, A B C and D. A being very difficult unless youre over the level cap and D being such a piece of crap you can't use it. Raw resources are turned into refined ones with this process and those are turned into items, and of course badly made resources can't be made into fantastic items.
Combat is meant to be done in raid-like form but in a persistent world. Here's an idea of how a group is designed to gain levels. You and a group of peope who are about the same level find a place with good things for you to fight. Let's say there's an open field near a forest with a crypt full of living dead badies inside. The players agree to be on in the evenings at the same time so they can paly together, while theyre waiting for each other they can kill easy things to get resources for crafting. They even put down plots and houses to live in so they can store stuff they find and make. They enter the dungeon together, maybe finding some other groups along the way, but dungeons are designed to fit many groups in at once and for them to even be able to help each other without hurting the exp for the other group. Each class can fulfill a role or maybe half of two or pieces of more. so well-formed groups will progress more quickly than others. There are also 17 different classes, so "little warriors" wont as identical as you expect.
As far as people being identical, there are the Dwarf, Half Giant, Halfling, High Elf, Thestran Barbarian, Thestran Human, Vulmane, Ahgramun, Human, Dark Elf, Gnome, Mordebi Human, Kurashasa, Qalian Barbarian, Goblin, Half Elf, Kojan Human, Orc, Raki and Wood Elf races to choose from, and developers claim that they be customized so much that two people of different races can be entirely different or identical.
I do see what all the hype is about, it sounds very fun and not at all like a grindfest. There will of course be levelling, but I have trouble calling to griding from what I've seen.
You have to love the last response. There are "Mordebi Humans" and such in the game so somehow it's not a grindfest. Lol.
The answer to your question is, it's a grindfest if you spend a lot of time watching the xp bar hoping that at some later level you will have fun and maybe then can stop watching the xp bar. Since this game heavily emphasizes high end content over lower end content, I would say it's a classic grindfest. If you disagree with me, show me some Sigil/SOE ads where they emphasize how much fun you're going to be having at lower levels, as opposed to dragon mounts and sailing ships, etc. which are for high end players.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Every MMORP is a grind fest, what makes each game different is how they keep you entertained.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Most long-time players of MMO's will tell you that there is going to be some "grinding" involved if you plan on making your main character a complete success in every facet of the game.
If this is something that is boring, then possibly time to consider a game that involves less goal setting and strategy.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
A grindfest is - in my point of view - any game where you have to grind LONG levels until you get some good rewards and good quests later. MUCH later.
In EQ2 practically every interesting item you get much, much later. Just take the prices for horses and housing, or soon the cloaks (a guild cloak costs 50 plat for a guild to create!) So all I hear is that Vanguard IS catering high level characters just as EQ, EQ2 and the like, so in that way YES it is supposed to be a grindfest unless they have some nice low level surprises they accidentally forgot to advertise about.
It's really a shame, if you have little time because you still have a job, and reaching high levels takes a long time for you, you'll hardly ever see anything nice in most MMOs, and VSoH will be even more in that trend. I never will forget how SOE advertised EQ2 with the new profession hats - only to find out only characters of the highest levels can wear them! >< Not even a toned down hat for 30somethings. I hate moneysinks just as much as timesinks. A game should be about adventures and stories, nothing else.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
A. You've never played it(its not even out or done yet)
B. There are facts that show otherwise
From your post it seemed like you didn't even like this genre of game (MMORPG). Every mmo you play is gonna have you watching a guy fight something, whether its a superhero fighting a thug, an orc fighting a elf, a martian fighting a human, you are gonna have to fight stuff and gain exp in some way, alot of people like the feeling of accomplishment and the long term of their character. if you don't like that kind of stuff than this may not be the genre for you (no offense).
Let's see. I have played EQ 1, EQ 2, FFXI, SWG, CoH, CoV, GW, and WoW (and had max or high level characters in all of them but FFXI, which I did not care for much). So no offense, but you don't know what you are talking about, so far as your assumptions about me.
No one is saying that advancement in a mmorpg is bad. But there is a big difference between a game where that advancement is fun at every level, and one where the only fun (or most of it) is at the end game.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
1) The level 10 mount is in Beta not sure about the real game but if the world is as big as they claim you will need something or be bored to death traveling across miles and miles of miles and miles.
2) Ditto about the boats
3) There are no facts that show otherwise, in fact most "facts" / faqs / beta leaks / etc say that the game is a total grindfest in the mold of Brad's first game Evergrind/Evercamp/Evercrack.
4) Games like WoW are fun (at least till level 60), funny I would swear that is what a "game" is supposed to be, not a second job. Hate WoW all you like but I guess that 7.5 million idiots are all wrong and only the WoW haters are correct.
People that feel everyone else is screwed up and they are the only ones that are correct normally are under professional medical care in an assylum, or Vanbois
Any game can become a grind Fest if you allow it to become one. Vanguard has multiple quest lines to enjoy not mentioning crafting, diplomacy and if you turn into a grind Fest its because you choose not to delve into the inner makings of the game.
With the powergamer mentality of the Vanguard community it will be a grindfest to achieve top levels fast. If you don't level quickly you will be alone in newbie zones and the game requires groups to really succeed. You can expect a bad launch with few players, a rapidly dwindling player population, and no new players being added due to being so far behind with no hope of catching up.
In other words just like EQ1 but even fewer players, and with its puny subscriber numbers thats saying a lot.
I really don't hate WoW I just use it because if I compared it to AO or another lesser known game half the people reading wouldn't know what I was talking about.
I'm a big SoE hater (from SWG) and when I first read about vanguard a while back I wasnt interested and passed up reading more, I only recently actually started giving the game a real looking into. So I assure you I'm not a "vanboi" although thats one funny pun lol.
But my point is, the orginal post makes it seem like the guy dosent even like rpg's.
(quote)I mean, is this all about clicking on endless little monsters through
hours and hours and watching them being slaughtered by your little
warrior (that, by the way, is almost equal to every other little
warrior in the game)?(quote)
That sounds like almost every mmo out in one way or another. Its gonna take hours to get to the lvl cap. Thats my only point, is that it seems like your a little too hard on Vanguard when the whole genre is little more than running around clicking on things(exagerration but you get my point).
But I just hope its similar to WoW (in leveling) but maybe a little harder to level up and dosent dramatically change so much at the endgame.
So not a troll post or trying to flame anyone. Just some thoughts
No MMO in the near future will not be a grindfest, by definition. You cant make a succesful MMO where everyone starts out at the top, or just starts out and 3 hours later they are doing "end game". As has been said, grinding is only a problem if you make it a problem. If you dont enjoy what you are doing in the game, dont do it. If all there is to do is grind for xp and you dont like to do that, dont play the game. The "end game" of the MMOs is still a grindfest. Grinding instances / dungeons for loot, grinding pvp, crafting etc.
EVE has real time training, but the money is the grindfest.
WoW you can grind xp, or grind quests for xp.
EQ2, same as WoW.
EQ1, grind xp.
FFXI, grind xp.
Lineage 2, grind xp.
Ryzom, grind skill levels.
SWG, grind skill levels.
DAOC, same as EQ2 / WoW.
Like PVPing?
PVP games with rewards you grind kills for.
WoW you grind for honor (grind a "currency" type thing in the expansion, from kills).
DAOC, grind kills to "rank up"
Like crafting?
Every game with crafting - Grind craft xp / craft skills to make better items.
Grind for mats.
So if you are looking for a game without a grind. Try something that isnt an RPG.
Hell, Life is a grind. I grind 8 hours a day JUST SO I CAN AFFORD TO LIVE. I have to grind to buy my loots, grind to keep my "mount" running to get from A to B. Life is the worst grind of them all!
EDIT: I find it funny krenalor is trying to flame EQ1's subscriber numbers when the game is what? 7 years old?
UO is teh suck because it has like no players lololololol <--- homo laugh
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Another person fooled by the marketing spin. You need to think for yourself a little bit.
When the best items come from raiding as they will in Vanguard, and raiding is the eclipse of adventuring, then the game is raid centric regardless of what percentage of content is actually raiding. At the higher levels of the game, the so called endgame, everyone in Vanguard will be facing a wall which only offers raiding on the other side of it, because there are no alternatives for soloers or small group oriented players in Vanguard.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Not sure if you have read anything about Vanguard, but it won't be about grinding mobs. If you choose to, you can level this way, but the majority of your time will likely involve questing/exploring/crafting. Think EQ mixed with WoW.
Grindfest means endless killing of mobs. You simply won't have to do this in Vanguard, but read about it yourself on their official FAQ. Very informative.
Another person fooled by the marketing spin. You need to think for yourself a little bit.
When the best items come from raiding as they will in Vanguard, and raiding is the eclipse of adventuring, then the game is raid centric regardless of what percentage of content is actually raiding. At the higher levels of the game, the so called endgame, everyone in Vanguard will be facing a wall which only offers raiding on the other side of it, because there are no alternatives for soloers or small group oriented players in Vanguard.
You need to find a game you actually like. Is there even ONE mmorpg that you can say is good enough for you to actualy you know, like play?
When we say 20% raiding, that means 20% of the best items will come from raiding and 60% of the best items will come from grouping and another 20% from soloing. This is how it will be, stop being misinformed. Plenty of info in the FAQ that addresses your lack of understanding.
Funny how you are completely in the dark as to the reality of Vanguard and yet have the audacity to tell someone to think for themselves. Seems like thinking for yourself hasn't gotten you very far.
Brad has used those percentage numbers before. But he has never defined it as you do in your post. In fact, he has never elaborated on the basis and definitions beyind those numbers at all. I invite you to link anywhere that he has, if you believe that is found in the FAQ. I stand ready to be better informed.
Until then, I would point out that those numbers are a complete fiction. You can play with percentages as much as you like if you do not compliment them with definitions. For example, if there is 20% "solo content", what counts as content? Is every wandering mob solo content? If it is, do we get 20% by comparing the number of mobs a solo player can kill versus the number of mobs it takes 2 or more players to kill? Does that mean, if I was a solo player, that my so called 20% is simply killing the wandering trash? Or would that content have to be more substantive? Is that number only the adventuring sphere, or does it count crafting and diplomacy? if it counts crafting and diplomacy, does this mean my adventuring solo content is down to 2%? What does Brad mean? He has never said, and there's a reason why. He is trying to market a game as solo friendly when it isn't.
But let's say, for purposes of argument, that it really is 20/60/20 by some reasonable definition. Have we taken into account the fact that people follow the goodies (or at least try to most of the time)? If 20% of the best items in the game come from raiding, as you claim, you think that only 20% of the players will raid? More like a lot more people will be trying to raid to get those items. That leads to a raid centric game. How many people will be doing what has a lot more to do with what type of play is being rewarded and to what degree than any arbitrary percentage amount of content.
If you added 10,000 rocks to the game, which, if you beat your head against them they give you a copper piece once an hour, what percentage of players will be availing themselves of that content? I would say next to NONE, regardless of the percentage of head on rock play there is to other forms of play.
Log onto EQ. The vast majority of content in that game is not being utilized at all. That's largely because the game has matured but it is also because the rewards from that content are overshadowed by the rewards of other content. When that happens people follow the rewards. So that 20/60/20 percentage means squat.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Will it be a grindfest? Yes and that is because that is what their customers really want. Their mouths may be saying "no" but their hands and money say "yes".
The only question is how well will they disguise the grind? As long as their customer can easily fool themselves into thinking there isn't a significant grind while still being perpetually occupied with mindless and repetitive tasks they will be fine.
Another person fooled by the marketing spin. You need to think for yourself a little bit.
When the best items come from raiding as they will in Vanguard, and raiding is the eclipse of adventuring, then the game is raid centric regardless of what percentage of content is actually raiding. At the higher levels of the game, the so called endgame, everyone in Vanguard will be facing a wall which only offers raiding on the other side of it, because there are no alternatives for soloers or small group oriented players in Vanguard.
Sorry, let me clarify, I was just baiting the troll. I know, I know, bad me. I'm about 99.9% sure that what you have just said is dead wrong.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
This isn't exactly an "Ad" per say, but it is a bonefide Beta Tester Testimonial from someone you might recognize.
Apparently this tester had a blast in the lower levels of the game.
Apparently this tester had a blast in the lower levels of the game.
If you have played the game, like it and have been authorized to give testimonials about it, I'm not here to tell you you won't like it. Grats on finding something you enjoy.
With the NDA in place, you will understand that no one is in a position to dispute your characterizations of the lower level experience. But that day will come ...
Of course, you realize I could write that same testimonial about every game whether it was fun or not. Take your standard delivery quest in generic mmo #27.
I selected a dwarf as my starting character and began in the Dwarven city of [whatever]. The sounds of ironworking resounded in the air, as the dwarves forged weapons to defend the city against the expected incursion of [whoever]. Immediately I was entrusted with a task of great importance. An army of [whatever] had been sited in the neighboring hills, and immediate word had to be brought to High Lord Poofypants in the neighboring city of [whatever]. The Captain of the Guard handed me a parchment sealed in red wax, and I set out through the surrouding countryside, alert to the possibility of an attack and intent on serving my King in this troubled and dangerous time.
So yeah, if you want to crank out that kind of stuff, more power to you, but it doesn't inform anyone about whether the game is really fun or not. I can see how it gets NDA approval though.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Apparently this tester had a blast in the lower levels of the game.
If you have played the game, like it and have been authorized to give testimonials about it, I'm not here to tell you you won't like it. Grats on finding something you enjoy.
With the NDA in place, you will understand that no one is in a position to dispute your characterizations of the lower level experience. But that day will come ...
Of course, you realize I could write that same testimonial about every game whether it was fun or not. Take your standard delivery quest in generic mmo #27.
I selected a dwarf as my starting character and began in the Dwarven city of [whatever]. The sounds of ironworking resounded in the air, as the dwarves forged weapons to defend the city against the expected incursion of [whoever]. Immediately I was entrusted with a task of great importance. An army of [whatever] had been sited in the neighboring hills, and immediate word had to be brought to High Lord Poofypants in the neighboring city of [whatever]. The Captain of the Guard handed me a parchment sealed in red wax, and I set out through the surrouding countryside, alert to the possibility of an attack and intent on serving my King in this troubled and dangerous time.
So yeah, if you want to crank out that kind of stuff, more power to you, but it doesn't inform anyone about whether the game is really fun or not. I can see how it gets NDA approval though.
The real content of the rest of my testimonial was about how the game has changed and about how the Devs are listening to the feedback from the community and making huge adjustments in order to make the game more fun in the long run. Feel free to dismiss my opinion based on that it is only my opinion and peoples opinions of what is fun is relative. But do not presume I'm protecting the game and talking it up. In fact I'm quite frank (elsewhere) about the problems the game faces or could potentially face.
But anyways... as for the game being fun at low levels, my being who I am, an expert of sorts as to what the author of that testimonial considers to be fun, would say that that particular player thinks the game is pretty stellar already and sees plenty of room for improvement...much of that room being utilized.