NCSoft offers the game client for free. You're welcome to download it, install it, all without paying. But after that, you have to pay. And if you don't, you get to stare at a 5 gig program that's absolutley useless to you.
I wonder what that client, and the server are made with. VB? C+? C++? Java? Pearl? So, since L2 is made with a language created by someone else, L2 does not belong to either NCSoft, or the private server admins. It belongs to the person who created whichever languages it uses. NCSoft is making money by arranging this coding in a certain order, to achieve certain results.
And yes, you are right, that coding was intended to be copied, used, adapted, and expanded. Programmers pay to learn this coding... and whatever else they require to code in it, but after that, it is free for them to use. VB doesn't just sit on their desktops and use up 5 worthless gigs. That is why we have L2, and WoW, and all of the other games out there. Some person came up with a way to arrange electrons, and then told other people how to use it so that they could in turn make it better, more powerful.
The world of computers is no different than anything else - people tried to imitate Picasso and Michaelangelo, and some became good at it. But there were people who took their ideas, adapted them, and made them better. Like wise with engineering, horticulture, medicine, and anything else you can name. Except while you can go look at a finished product outside of the computer world, you cannot do this inside, because that constitutes "de-compiling." Even though the medium - coding - is a public thing, how that coding is arranged is a corporate secret.
If everyone protected these things as vigourously as the software industry does, we would really be in the stone age still. Private servers have taken an idea and made it better. Much better in many cases. Isn't this the purpose of life - to take something and improve upon it? This is how computers and the internet started out, and unless we want electronics to never be better, this is how they must continue.
That being said, I too would be angry if someone took thousands of hours of my work, gave it a new IP addy, made it look pretty, and then made lots of money off of it. But would I be angry if someone took my work, reworked it and made it better? No, absolutely not. Because if I was angry, that would mean I would not only be jealous, I would also be greedy. The simple fact that someone could do this says something about me, that is, that I did not take my idea far enough. I did not pursue it, while this person did. And whose fault is that?
In fact, I'd probably ask that person what they did right that I did wrong. I would learn from this mistake, and maybe, just maybe, I would then use this idea to get me started on making my product better.
Lastly, I've heard that some servers are running on an NCSoft-okayed version which is made with Java. Maybe these server shut-downs are due to "illegitemate" copies or versions of the official server software. Just an idea I'd like to throw out.
Originally posted by Mirokata "I wasn't going to buy a ferrari anyway so why cant I just steal it!?!"
If it weren't for someone looking at Henry Ford's invention, and then taking a few beams, sticking an engine, four wheels, a fuel tank, and some other stuff on it, there would be no such thing as a Ferrari. Same goes for Henry Ford - he got his inspiration from someone else's horseless cart.
I like that idea about Automobile manufacturers owning roads...
"I'm sorry sir, you're driving a Ford. This road belongs to Honda, and so I can't let you through." "Why not?" "Ford vehicles are not designed to be driven on Honda designed roadways. It says so in this road's EULA" "Huh?" "Sir, this road belongs to Honda, and noone except the owner of a Honda vehicle may use it. Now, either go somewhere else, buy a Honda, or Honda will lay charges against you for attempting to use it's road. Am I understood?"
The land of Aden, it's character models, the monster models, the name "adena" and wholly shit the god damn name "LINEAGE II" is copywrites of NCsoft. You can't have a "L2 private server" without ripping off the company that MADE THE MO**** FU**ING GAME! Are you people really that dense! People can gain rights to gene sequences in the human DNA, and other establishments even universities have to pay whoever owns those rights to use it!
Private servers were infringing on NCsofts copy writes. PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Emulated and stolen source code to emulate the game develpoed by NCsoft known as Lineage II is wrong. When you play a private server you down load the god damn official client most of the time. And like NCsoft has stated, most ppl even download it directly from NCsoft eating up their and my bandwidth for which I should have rights to because I pay for the damned game!
For anyone that thinks that Private servers were legal, emulated or not, are idiots! The CONTENT is what is copywrited.
If you want make a private server create your own game and call it Noobage 2 for all I care! As long as it is 100% a different game not trying to "copy/emulate" or even steal source code from an already existing game!
If it wasn't breaking copy writes the FBI wouldn't have cracked it down! Actually if it wasn't breaking copy writes, making losses to NCsoft, and making profits the FBI probally would have never cared!
God damn noobs I tell ya!
The example by the poster above me is covered with shit it stinks so much! A real comparison would be someone taking some car parts saying it is a Honda when really it is, lets say a ford and kia part assemblage, and then you selling it for a honda, using Honda's name where the company Honda sees no benifits from you exploiting their name, property, or whatever.
Digital Piracy is something people still take lightly...and really can't be compaired to other things such as cars.
FYI you don't purchase software! You NEVER PURCHASE SOFTWARE! You only purchase the license to use it! When you by mircrosft windows, it belongs to microsoft, you are just purchasing a license to use it. You can't use the client until you purchase a license... If you don't purchase a license you are not obligated to use the software which is and always will be the companies property.
Also ppl are getting confused! TECHNOLOGY is shared, generally creations are not! Technology on how to make a game is shared to make better technology to make better games. Technology on cars is generally shared, at least the idea of simple combustion, and when a new technology such as a hydrogen engine is developed it will be copy writed and patented and those scientists and developers will get subsities for companies that by that technology, that is how science gets paid! When you copy a book, such as character names, plots, etc...it is copied and breaks the intellecutal property of the author, and there are fines and sometimes even jail time for that.
A legal private server would be one with the permission from NCsoft to make it! Also any "profits" you make if allowed to create the server would have a certain % going back to NCsoft.
Jukan you need to relax a bit. Insulting people to make your point generally means you don't have one.
Your auto comparison fails when you talk about "selling" it. Many private servers are open for fun, when they start charging and making profits off of NCsofts work then I agree, there should be fines to pay and imo it should be a civil case, not criminal.
The problem, for me, is NC denying consumers the right to make a server like that in the first place. They cleary do so in their EULA, but the EULA is not law, and they don't always enforce all parts of their EULA (account sharing is a good example) so I hope the courts don't back them.
[UPDATE: Gamasutra had a chance to speak to Chris Thompson, the Austin-based FBI agent assigned to the case. Thompson noted that the case "...is an ongoing investigation", adding: "The charges for something like this are not really public."
We really don't know what the charges are, it could be they shut only l2x down for stealing and distributing the server files and nothing else. Don't you find it odd that they only went after one service?
I'm not surprised at all that the "fbi" may or may not have busted them. But I think this should be a strong warning to NCSoft that they were not doing a good job by North American standards. Sure, the asian market was huge for the game, but facts are the game is horrible by US Standards.
What I think is really telling, L2 Extreme has over 50,000 people playing the game based on the articles I was reading.. I have no doubt that more people were playing on private 'free' servers than the NCSoft servers, and I think the main reason is because playing on the NCSoft servers is just not fun, it's a horrible grind. I played for a few months till I could not stand it at all. I know a few will think the are l33t because they grinded all the way to the top, that is fine, it's your time, your life..have fun.
So NCSoft saw the numbers larger on the free servers and thought OMG! We are missing that much cash! Let's call the FBI!!! OMG!!1oneone!!. They have that right, it is thier game, but none of these people are gonna rush out and sign up with NCSoft and pay them because there is no private servers anymore...That boat sailed you NCSoft screwed it up with a horrible grinding game.. This FBI run is just the final nail in the coffing for L2 and it'll just slide off into the sunset.
Now, I realize fully that in asia this game is huge.. I don't care, I live in North America and here in America this game is a failure.
I don't understand why you are even arguing over it. Its illegal. Fine if you don't agree but the reality is.....its illegal
You gonna go stand in front of a judge and tell him why you think its ok when its your ass on the line? If not, then you really dont believe it yourself.
Go make a private server for Ryzom, they are going to need it.... The community really came through for that game didn't they lol. They all talked a big talk about how inovative and great it was but when it came down to the wire none of them where really playing it lol.
This sites community talked the talk but they don't walk the walk. Ryzom is in "recievership" and L2 is "thriving" LMAO. Take that to the bank and tell me I'm wrong.
Originally posted by gwDiesel I'm not surprised at all that the "fbi" may or may not have busted them. But I think this should be a strong warning to NCSoft that they were not doing a good job by North American standards. Sure, the asian market was huge for the game, but facts are the game is horrible by US Standards.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs. Me, me, me , I wan't, I wan't, I wan't.
If someone doesn't like the game and it's not their intellectual property then do something else. My father would tell you to get a job and stop wasting your time on video games but that might be a bit harsh.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"Digital Piracy is something people still take lightly"
... Do you have an MP3 player? Especially one of those 1 or 2 gig ones?
Microsoft recently said it is going to have an MP3 player to rival iPod. An MP3 player that is going to probably hold around 2 gigs worth of music. 2 gigs/0.004 gigs per song = 500 songs per MP3 player (and this is low compared to some of the advertisements I've seen). If a CD had an average of 14 songs on it, that would mean that if someone wanted to legally fill one of these MP3 players, they would have to have 35 CDs. I know of lots of people that have bought MP3 players, and have quite a few songs, but very few that have even, say, 17 CDs. If anyone decided to do the math, they would that there is a greater capacity to carry songs on all the MP3 players combined, than there are "legal" songs in digital formats.
The capacity of these MP3 players is so huge that most people could not legally fill them, or come anywhere near close. So why are they out there, especially with such huge memories that are always growing? Everyone knows that the only restriction to pirated media is digital space. The more you have, the more media you can have, and in the age of PtP applications, you will have. The same corporations that are complaining about pirated something or another are encouraging it with products like these.
I can't wait to see some immature moron try to argue that Microsoft and Mac can sell us these products, but we're not allowed to use them to their full potential. If 30% of pirated media was for MP3 players, just think about how much music downloading would decrease if Microsoft and Mac limited their MP3 players to 100 megs.
Anyways, i'm pretty sure the background of the L2X page changed from white to red yesterday. Are my eyes deceiving me, or did it really change?
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by gwDiesel I'm not surprised at all that the "fbi" may or may not have busted them. But I think this should be a strong warning to NCSoft that they were not doing a good job by North American standards. Sure, the asian market was huge for the game, but facts are the game is horrible by US Standards.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs.
Don't you see the irony? Companies like NCSoft have the opportunity to make their product better (i'd say more than a few priv server admins would gladly share their bug fixes if they were allowed to run their servers in peace,) and yet they don't want it. There is a huge troubleshooting community out there that could easily be tapped into, but it's not. And L2 is just one of a number of games that is starting to suffer because of it.
Originally posted by gwDiesel I'm not surprised at all that the "fbi" may or may not have busted them. But I think this should be a strong warning to NCSoft that they were not doing a good job by North American standards. Sure, the asian market was huge for the game, but facts are the game is horrible by US Standards.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs. Me, me, me , I wan't, I wan't, I wan't.
If someone doesn't like the game and it's not their intellectual property then do something else. My father would tell you to get a job and stop wasting your time on video games but that might be a bit harsh.
haha I did quit playing the game, and so has a lot of other people. I'm not going debate the issue as to if it's right or wrong, but what I am pointing out is NC Soft has missed the mark on what could have been a great game, and the private servers have only shown their short sightedness on what consumers want. As for you last comment, I'm 36 and don't live with my mother, and I am a working person who didn't have time to waste on a stupid grind just so I can brag to other 14 year olds that I"m uber. The private servers brought fun back to the game.
Originally posted by gwDiesel Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by gwDiesel I'm not surprised at all that the "fbi" may or may not have busted them. But I think this should be a strong warning to NCSoft that they were not doing a good job by North American standards. Sure, the asian market was huge for the game, but facts are the game is horrible by US Standards.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs. Me, me, me , I wan't, I wan't, I wan't.
If someone doesn't like the game and it's not their intellectual property then do something else. My father would tell you to get a job and stop wasting your time on video games but that might be a bit harsh.
haha I did quit playing the game, and so has a lot of other people. I'm not going debate the issue as to if it's right or wrong, but what I am pointing out is NC Soft has missed the mark on what could have been a great game, and the private servers have only shown their short sightedness on what consumers want. As for you last comment, I'm 36 and don't live with my mother, and I am a working person who didn't have time to waste on a stupid grind just so I can brag to other 14 year olds that I"m uber. The private servers brought fun back to the game.Agreed
Why shouldn't the people who play this game get upset with all you trolls?
This site is full of elitest who support private servers and support gold buying... this site is riddled with gold adds. And all you have the nerve to get up and post smack about a particular game for having bots lol. Then on top of it some of you are defending private servers, LMAO....you guys are classic here! I love you all.
My question is why there is anyone who is actually playing a game -- any game-- and part of a community, is even posting here. The people here just hop around flaming games they don't even play and offer nothing constructive or helpful. Just a bunch of gold buying, private server supporting elitist trolls here. Most of them don't even know wtf they are talking about.
i'm not even going to bother with arguing the moral issue of stealing intellectual property because it seems like half of you Johnny Cochran loving mother f***ers already have your rationalizations firmly entrenched.
bottom line is...if all you people continue to steal games...be it in the form of private servers...downloading games from torrent sites...or ripping and burning dvd roms you will only screw yourselves in the long run
at the rate things are going...it's only gonna get easier and easier to steal this stuff...but do you know what will happen ultimately?...the money for developing games will slowly begin to dissipate and then eventually the number of games will begin to shrink if not completely disappear
no one will bother to create or maintain games for free...at least not at a very high quality
if someone hadn't taken the time to develop and create the Lineage2 world...it's doubtful that anyone managing a private server would have been able to create anything remotely resembling the quality of that game
sure they deserve credit for relaxing the levelling curve...as well as monitoring bots and other issues with more care than ncsoft...but the bottom line is that they are still parasites that are stealing from someone else...and just because ncsoft is stupid doesn't mean people have the right to steal from them
if you own a ferrari but you don't know how to drive it well...does that give me the right to steal it and drive it properly?...give me a f-ing break...
if lineage 2 loses it's subscription base...who will pay for chronicle 6?...who will pay for chronicle 7-12?
who will pay to translate lineage 3 and bring it to NA?
i agree that ncsoft dropped the ball on their management of lineage 2...but they still paid thousands if not millions developing a pretty cool game...but if people continue to find weak excuses to rationalize their theft of intellectual property...in the end...they will only end up ruining an industry that has given all of us a lot of pleasure
i'm not even going to bother with arguing the moral issue of stealing intellectual property because it seems like half of you Johnny Cochran loving mother f***ers already have your rationalizations firmly entrenched. bottom line is...if all you people continue to steal games...be it in the form of private servers...downloading games from torrent sites...or ripping and burning dvd roms you will only screw yourselves in the long run at the rate things are going...it's only gonna get easier and easier to steal this stuff...but do you know what will happen ultimately?...the money for developing games will slowly begin to dissipate and then eventually the number of games will begin to shrink if not completely disappear no one will bother to create or maintain games for free...at least not at a very high quality if someone hadn't taken the time to develop and create the Lineage2 world...it's doubtful that anyone managing a private server would have been able to create anything remotely resembling the quality of that game sure they deserve credit for relaxing the levelling curve...as well as monitoring bots and other issues with more care than ncsoft...but the bottom line is that they are still parasites that are stealing from someone else...and just because ncsoft is stupid doesn't mean people have the right to steal from them if you own a ferrari but you don't know how to drive it well...does that give me the right to steal it and drive it properly?...give me a f-ing break... if lineage 2 loses it's subscription base...who will pay for chronicle 6?...who will pay for chronicle 7-12? who will pay to translate lineage 3 and bring it to NA? i agree that ncsoft dropped the ball on their management of lineage 2...but they still paid thousands if not millions developing a pretty cool game...but if people continue to find weak excuses to rationalize their theft of intellectual property...in the end...they will only end up ruining an industry that has given all of us a lot of pleasure
I'm not seeing how they are losing money. They broke the game and pri servers are fixing it.
If you wanna shut down the pri servers ok, do it. Alot of people still wont buy the game. That is money lost?
The only money that is lost is what THEY THINK they should be getting but the wouldnt have gotten it in the first place.
Originally posted by thunderbolt1The game was paid for, made by and belongs to NCSoft you knotheads. Glad to see the thieving pirates go.From what I read... Priv Servers steal nothing. The use thier own code right? Reverse Coding?However how do you OWN a shape, a color, a idea? Isnt that what a game consist of?And isnt L2 just another korean game that was translated to english, and sum1 else slapping thier name on it, if so, NC made nothing.
19 years old and never heard of patents. Sad....
Edit:
Originally posted by thunderbolt1 Why shouldn't the people who play this game get upset with all you trolls? This site is full of elitest who support private servers and support gold buying... this site is riddled with gold adds. And all you have the nerve to get up and post smack about a particular game for having bots lol. Then on top of it some of you are defending private servers, LMAO....you guys are classic here! I love you all. My question is why there is anyone who is actually playing a game -- any game-- and part of a community, is even posting here. The people here just hop around flaming games they don't even play and offer nothing constructive or helpful. Just a bunch of gold buying, private server supporting elitist trolls here. Most of them don't even know wtf they are talking about.
And of course you're not trolling, even though you spout off about how bad this site is, how bad it's members are, and talk about L2 in every post you make. Why are you spending your time posting here instead of playing a game, if we are going by your statement.
I like you guys here. You all say one thing then do another
You support private servers, you argue about the right and wrongs of gold buying on a site that advertises gold sites, you bash L2 for bots when you all know there are more in other games blah blah blah blah....
You troll L2 and let Ryzom die, a game that seems to fit your ideals here.
Elitest. Normally I would move on, I don't like cheater sites but this one caught my interest. I wanna be elite to, how much gold do I need to buy off of this site to be an elite member? Don't worry, im losing interest and will be moving on, but I want to press your buttons a few more times. I've only wasted 5 minutes or so per post, you guys have hundreds and thousands of post....how much time outta game is that for you ...???
Originally posted by Zorvan Originally posted by SkSwitch Originally posted by thunderbolt1The game was paid for, made by and belongs to NCSoft you knotheads. Glad to see the thieving pirates go.From what I read... Priv Servers steal nothing. The use thier own code right? Reverse Coding?However how do you OWN a shape, a color, a idea? Isnt that what a game consist of?And isnt L2 just another korean game that was translated to english, and sum1 else slapping thier name on it, if so, NC made nothing.
19 years old and never heard of patents. Sad....
Edit:
Originally posted by thunderbolt1 Why shouldn't the people who play this game get upset with all you trolls? This site is full of elitest who support private servers and support gold buying... this site is riddled with gold adds. And all you have the nerve to get up and post smack about a particular game for having bots lol. Then on top of it some of you are defending private servers, LMAO....you guys are classic here! I love you all. My question is why there is anyone who is actually playing a game -- any game-- and part of a community, is even posting here. The people here just hop around flaming games they don't even play and offer nothing constructive or helpful. Just a bunch of gold buying, private server supporting elitist trolls here. Most of them don't even know wtf they are talking about.
And of course you're not trolling, even though you spout off about how bad this site is, how bad it's members are, and talk about L2 in every post you make. Why are you spending your time posting here instead of playing a game, if we are going by your statement.
Ok, I'll lick gravity and call dips. Now you cant use it. HA.
Make sense? Hopefully not. Maybe in your world it would. But I would hope to live in a place where when people make something that doesnt work, WORK, they dont get sued or shutdown because they didnt pay for it. Thats all this world is about? Money? If private servers would of paided or made some deal with NC so they could run the servers you think they would give a fuck? Probley not =/
They only care cause of what they thought they could of been making, when if they would of just actually listen to thier customers they would of far surpass the money they "loss" from pri servers.
Zorvan....do even play L2 or have ever played it?......recently .......(beta 3 years ago doesn't count)
My guess is no. You just came to troll the sites favorite punching bag and stayed for the great company right?
*sigh* wasn't funny or witty either. Just a trollish attack lol....772 post at 5 minutes each is how much time out of game? How much gold you need to buy here to be "elite"?
Dream on guys l2 private is still alive and kicking becouse a few bring down still hundreds of thousend european and us players play it.
And you know why becouse bots bots and bots grind grind grind thats why european and us players dont want that so private servers fill up the gap ncsoft dont understand:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Originally posted by thunderbolt1 Zorvan....do even play L2 or have ever played it?......recently .......(beta 3 years ago doesn't count) My guess is no. You just came to troll the sites favorite punching bag and stayed for the great company right? *sigh* wasn't funny or witty either. Just a trollish attack lol....772 post at 5 minutes each is how much time out of game? How much gold you need to buy here to be "elite"?
Oh, yes. I have played it recently. There is a free trial here, remember? You know, the one the botters/farmers created hundreds of accounts to leech the keys from? And you need to get off the gold selling kick, also, because obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm one of the first people to report the scumsucking cockroaches when they spam these forums with their ads. And as for this site being plastered with goldselling sites, I only see one that has paid to advertise here. I also believe that private servers need to be closed down. Go back through those 772 posts I made and you might learn that. Finally, I don't need to be funny or witty to make my point that you are nothing but a trolling flamebaiter.
In fact, since your only reason for being here seems to be to trash this site, it's members, and troll this sites forums with your inane L2 gibberish, you are being reported as such. Please, feel free to respond with some more of your limited "insights" into the character of myself, this site, and it's members. You do more damage to your image then I could ever hope to achieve, loser. Buh-bye.
Ok, when it comes down to it, they were stealing intellectual property of NCsoft and costing them money. The costs alone of using NCsoft bandwidth to download the client is still retarded. I can't count on my fingers how many times the NCsoft download server was full so I couldn't download songs, client, whatever... Most private servers had you download the client right from the official website.
No, actually I don't own an MP3. I have a friend who is a fan of heavy medal and he has 80 Gigs of legit music of CDs he all owns. Sure MP3 players are also benificial to piraters, but oh well... Apple, Creative, whatever don't make the MP3 players for pirates they make it for music lovers who either DL legally or rip their CDs... Your point it pointless...
I agree, NCsoft kinda fudged the bucket on making it more "causal" for some players. I mean heck, I don't like the grind, but what I do like is the free updates, the friends I have, and the feeling that I am supporting something I generally like.
This is definately not a dying game! They make enough money world wide and in the NA market even if 60% of the servers may be farmers and botters, whatever...every MMO has farmers and 99% have bots...
Official has way less bugs than private servers. Private servers have less bots because there is no money to be made by professional farmers. I would like to see the private server mods try to combat the pro farmer waves and hacks. NCsoft makes a fix and Walker makes one a few hours later. It is constaint battle. If you knew anything Walker has updated 3 times within the last month or so... Thats almost every week. Whats the point of waisting resources every day when you know you will be beaten within a few hours... I would rather them keep relasing their free updates.
L2 isn't a game for eveyone. If you don't like it, just play a different game. It is NCsofts creation, if you even want to see another chronicle it would be best to support the company. Biting the hand that feeds you usually results in having no food!
Originally posted by SkSwitch I'm not seeing how they are losing money. They broke the game and pri servers are fixing it. If you wanna shut down the pri servers ok, do it. Alot of people still wont buy the game. That is money lost? The only money that is lost is what THEY THINK they should be getting but the wouldnt have gotten it in the first place.
this is the same tired rationalization that people use when they download music..."i wasn't gonna buy the cd anyway so it doesn't matter if i steal it"...fact of the matter remains...cd sales are down...less artists are able to hit platinum...
in an environment where music has never been more accessible or more heavily promoted by various online advertising and networking sites...more people than ever are listening to music...yet sales are down?
doesn't take a genius to figure out what is happening here
now one could argue because it is so much cheaper to produce a music cd rather than a movie or a game that music will continue to thrive and the artists can still make money from concert and club engagements...but for movies and games this will probably not be true...independent features and small art house dramas and romantic comedies with low budgets could probably be shot fairly cheaply on digital...but no way could studios produce major action and science fiction films on tiny budgets...so even though people like Peter Jackson and Spielberg could still probably get their projects made...but any other up and coming director working on a medium budget film of this type would probably not get greenlit if people knew that they couldn't make their money back because the 18-25 demographic was downloading everything and not going to the theaters or purchasing dvds.
the reality: if you don't pay for anything...one day the well will run dry
as far as lineage 2?
...of course most people on private servers wouldn't play it if it wasn't free but then again...what if ten percent or even five percent did want to play it?...all this money would go into ncsofts pockets and even though some of it goes back to their investors...a lot would go back into developing more games which of course would be beneficial to the gaming world in general
no matter how clever a private server manager is...he still would not be able to produce a lineage2 quality game by himself...if there were such people...then all of us would be happily playing on such a game as we speak...even though we don't like to admit it...we still need the ncsofts and blizzards development expertise...as most people would agree even the best f2p games are somewhat lacking
i'm really not trying to bash people over the head with a moral crusade...i'm more trying to convince people that supporting the infrastructure of the gaming and movie industries are in the fan's best interest
if intellectual property continues to be regarded as the public's domain...we are doomed to a future of homemade movies and games...and this era of films and games will be looked upon fondly and regretfully as a lost golden age
Comments
So... lets see.
NCSoft offers the game client for free. You're welcome to download it, install it, all without paying. But after that, you have to pay. And if you don't, you get to stare at a 5 gig program that's absolutley useless to you.
I wonder what that client, and the server are made with. VB? C+? C++? Java? Pearl? So, since L2 is made with a language created by someone else, L2 does not belong to either NCSoft, or the private server admins. It belongs to the person who created whichever languages it uses. NCSoft is making money by arranging this coding in a certain order, to achieve certain results.
And yes, you are right, that coding was intended to be copied, used, adapted, and expanded. Programmers pay to learn this coding... and whatever else they require to code in it, but after that, it is free for them to use. VB doesn't just sit on their desktops and use up 5 worthless gigs. That is why we have L2, and WoW, and all of the other games out there. Some person came up with a way to arrange electrons, and then told other people how to use it so that they could in turn make it better, more powerful.
The world of computers is no different than anything else - people tried to imitate Picasso and Michaelangelo, and some became good at it. But there were people who took their ideas, adapted them, and made them better. Like wise with engineering, horticulture, medicine, and anything else you can name. Except while you can go look at a finished product outside of the computer world, you cannot do this inside, because that constitutes "de-compiling." Even though the medium - coding - is a public thing, how that coding is arranged is a corporate secret.
If everyone protected these things as vigourously as the software industry does, we would really be in the stone age still. Private servers have taken an idea and made it better. Much better in many cases. Isn't this the purpose of life - to take something and improve upon it? This is how computers and the internet started out, and unless we want electronics to never be better, this is how they must continue.
That being said, I too would be angry if someone took thousands of hours of my work, gave it a new IP addy, made it look pretty, and then made lots of money off of it. But would I be angry if someone took my work, reworked it and made it better? No, absolutely not. Because if I was angry, that would mean I would not only be jealous, I would also be greedy. The simple fact that someone could do this says something about me, that is, that I did not take my idea far enough. I did not pursue it, while this person did. And whose fault is that?
In fact, I'd probably ask that person what they did right that I did wrong. I would learn from this mistake, and maybe, just maybe, I would then use this idea to get me started on making my product better.
Lastly, I've heard that some servers are running on an NCSoft-okayed version which is made with Java. Maybe these server shut-downs are due to "illegitemate" copies or versions of the official server software. Just an idea I'd like to throw out.
I like that idea about Automobile manufacturers owning roads...
"I'm sorry sir, you're driving a Ford. This road belongs to Honda, and so I can't let you through."
"Why not?"
"Ford vehicles are not designed to be driven on Honda designed roadways. It says so in this road's EULA"
"Huh?"
"Sir, this road belongs to Honda, and noone except the owner of a Honda vehicle may use it. Now, either go somewhere else, buy a Honda, or Honda will lay charges against you for attempting to use it's road. Am I understood?"
I can't belive ppl can be so retarded.
The land of Aden, it's character models, the monster models, the name "adena" and wholly shit the god damn name "LINEAGE II" is copywrites of NCsoft. You can't have a "L2 private server" without ripping off the company that MADE THE MO**** FU**ING GAME! Are you people really that dense! People can gain rights to gene sequences in the human DNA, and other establishments even universities have to pay whoever owns those rights to use it!
Private servers were infringing on NCsofts copy writes. PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Emulated and stolen source code to emulate the game develpoed by NCsoft known as Lineage II is wrong. When you play a private server you down load the god damn official client most of the time. And like NCsoft has stated, most ppl even download it directly from NCsoft eating up their and my bandwidth for which I should have rights to because I pay for the damned game!
For anyone that thinks that Private servers were legal, emulated or not, are idiots! The CONTENT is what is copywrited.
If you want make a private server create your own game and call it Noobage 2 for all I care! As long as it is 100% a different game not trying to "copy/emulate" or even steal source code from an already existing game!
If it wasn't breaking copy writes the FBI wouldn't have cracked it down! Actually if it wasn't breaking copy writes, making losses to NCsoft, and making profits the FBI probally would have never cared!
God damn noobs I tell ya!
The example by the poster above me is covered with shit it stinks so much! A real comparison would be someone taking some car parts saying it is a Honda when really it is, lets say a ford and kia part assemblage, and then you selling it for a honda, using Honda's name where the company Honda sees no benifits from you exploiting their name, property, or whatever.
Digital Piracy is something people still take lightly...and really can't be compaired to other things such as cars.
FYI you don't purchase software! You NEVER PURCHASE SOFTWARE! You only purchase the license to use it! When you by mircrosft windows, it belongs to microsoft, you are just purchasing a license to use it. You can't use the client until you purchase a license... If you don't purchase a license you are not obligated to use the software which is and always will be the companies property.
Also ppl are getting confused! TECHNOLOGY is shared, generally creations are not! Technology on how to make a game is shared to make better technology to make better games. Technology on cars is generally shared, at least the idea of simple combustion, and when a new technology such as a hydrogen engine is developed it will be copy writed and patented and those scientists and developers will get subsities for companies that by that technology, that is how science gets paid! When you copy a book, such as character names, plots, etc...it is copied and breaks the intellecutal property of the author, and there are fines and sometimes even jail time for that.
A legal private server would be one with the permission from NCsoft to make it! Also any "profits" you make if allowed to create the server would have a certain % going back to NCsoft.
Since NC didnt wanna do anything of the bots/scammers people who still enjoyed playing the game put thier own rules in.
And from what I see, they did one hell of a job to get that many accts to pri servers and enought attention to make NC cry to the FBI.
Jukan you need to relax a bit. Insulting people to make your point generally means you don't have one.
Your auto comparison fails when you talk about "selling" it. Many private servers are open for fun, when they start charging and making profits off of NCsofts work then I agree, there should be fines to pay and imo it should be a civil case, not criminal.
The problem, for me, is NC denying consumers the right to make a server like that in the first place. They cleary do so in their EULA, but the EULA is not law, and they don't always enforce all parts of their EULA (account sharing is a good example) so I hope the courts don't back them.
There's also a lot of speculation as to exactly what the charges are. You can find some updated news:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11786
[UPDATE: Gamasutra had a chance to speak to Chris Thompson, the Austin-based FBI agent assigned to the case. Thompson noted that the case "...is an ongoing investigation", adding: "The charges for something like this are not really public."
We really don't know what the charges are, it could be they shut only l2x down for stealing and distributing the server files and nothing else. Don't you find it odd that they only went after one service?
What I think is really telling, L2 Extreme has over 50,000 people playing the game based on the articles I was reading.. I have no doubt that more people were playing on private 'free' servers than the NCSoft servers, and I think the main reason is because playing on the NCSoft servers is just not fun, it's a horrible grind. I played for a few months till I could not stand it at all. I know a few will think the are l33t because they grinded all the way to the top, that is fine, it's your time, your life..have fun.
So NCSoft saw the numbers larger on the free servers and thought OMG! We are missing that much cash! Let's call the FBI!!! OMG!!1oneone!!. They have that right, it is thier game, but none of these people are gonna rush out and sign up with NCSoft and pay them because there is no private servers anymore...That boat sailed you NCSoft screwed it up with a horrible grinding game.. This FBI run is just the final nail in the coffing for L2 and it'll just slide off into the sunset.
Now, I realize fully that in asia this game is huge.. I don't care, I live in North America and here in America this game is a failure.
I don't understand why you are even arguing over it. Its illegal. Fine if you don't agree but the reality is.....its illegal
You gonna go stand in front of a judge and tell him why you think its ok when its your ass on the line? If not, then you really dont believe it yourself.
Go make a private server for Ryzom, they are going to need it.... The community really came through for that game didn't they lol. They all talked a big talk about how inovative and great it was but when it came down to the wire none of them where really playing it lol.
This sites community talked the talk but they don't walk the walk. Ryzom is in "recievership" and L2 is "thriving" LMAO. Take that to the bank and tell me I'm wrong.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs. Me, me, me , I wan't, I wan't, I wan't.
If someone doesn't like the game and it's not their intellectual property then do something else. My father would tell you to get a job and stop wasting your time on video games but that might be a bit harsh.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
... Do you have an MP3 player? Especially one of those 1 or 2 gig ones?
Microsoft recently said it is going to have an MP3 player to rival iPod. An MP3 player that is going to probably hold around 2 gigs worth of music. 2 gigs/0.004 gigs per song = 500 songs per MP3 player (and this is low compared to some of the advertisements I've seen). If a CD had an average of 14 songs on it, that would mean that if someone wanted to legally fill one of these MP3 players, they would have to have 35 CDs. I know of lots of people that have bought MP3 players, and have quite a few songs, but very few that have even, say, 17 CDs. If anyone decided to do the math, they would that there is a greater capacity to carry songs on all the MP3 players combined, than there are "legal" songs in digital formats.
The capacity of these MP3 players is so huge that most people could not legally fill them, or come anywhere near close. So why are they out there, especially with such huge memories that are always growing? Everyone knows that the only restriction to pirated media is digital space. The more you have, the more media you can have, and in the age of PtP applications, you will have. The same corporations that are complaining about pirated something or another are encouraging it with products like these.
I can't wait to see some immature moron try to argue that Microsoft and Mac can sell us these products, but we're not allowed to use them to their full potential. If 30% of pirated media was for MP3 players, just think about how much music downloading would decrease if Microsoft and Mac limited their MP3 players to 100 megs.
Anyways, i'm pretty sure the background of the L2X page changed from white to red yesterday. Are my eyes deceiving me, or did it really change?
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs.
Don't you see the irony? Companies like NCSoft have the opportunity to make their product better (i'd say more than a few priv server admins would gladly share their bug fixes if they were allowed to run their servers in peace,) and yet they don't want it. There is a huge troubleshooting community out there that could easily be tapped into, but it's not. And L2 is just one of a number of games that is starting to suffer because of it.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs. Me, me, me , I wan't, I wan't, I wan't.
If someone doesn't like the game and it's not their intellectual property then do something else. My father would tell you to get a job and stop wasting your time on video games but that might be a bit harsh.
haha I did quit playing the game, and so has a lot of other people. I'm not going debate the issue as to if it's right or wrong, but what I am pointing out is NC Soft has missed the mark on what could have been a great game, and the private servers have only shown their short sightedness on what consumers want. As for you last comment, I'm 36 and don't live with my mother, and I am a working person who didn't have time to waste on a stupid grind just so I can brag to other 14 year olds that I"m uber. The private servers brought fun back to the game.
Then don't play. Game is horrible then don't play.
I don't like like something I don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. Our society is just going to the dogs. Me, me, me , I wan't, I wan't, I wan't.
If someone doesn't like the game and it's not their intellectual property then do something else. My father would tell you to get a job and stop wasting your time on video games but that might be a bit harsh.
haha I did quit playing the game, and so has a lot of other people. I'm not going debate the issue as to if it's right or wrong, but what I am pointing out is NC Soft has missed the mark on what could have been a great game, and the private servers have only shown their short sightedness on what consumers want. As for you last comment, I'm 36 and don't live with my mother, and I am a working person who didn't have time to waste on a stupid grind just so I can brag to other 14 year olds that I"m uber. The private servers brought fun back to the game.
Agreed
Also with Sentime.
Why shouldn't the people who play this game get upset with all you trolls?
This site is full of elitest who support private servers and support gold buying... this site is riddled with gold adds. And all you have the nerve to get up and post smack about a particular game for having bots lol. Then on top of it some of you are defending private servers, LMAO....you guys are classic here! I love you all.
My question is why there is anyone who is actually playing a game -- any game-- and part of a community, is even posting here. The people here just hop around flaming games they don't even play and offer nothing constructive or helpful. Just a bunch of gold buying, private server supporting elitist trolls here. Most of them don't even know wtf they are talking about.
i'm not even going to bother with arguing the moral issue of stealing intellectual property because it seems like half of you Johnny Cochran loving mother f***ers already have your rationalizations firmly entrenched.
bottom line is...if all you people continue to steal games...be it in the form of private servers...downloading games from torrent sites...or ripping and burning dvd roms you will only screw yourselves in the long run
at the rate things are going...it's only gonna get easier and easier to steal this stuff...but do you know what will happen ultimately?...the money for developing games will slowly begin to dissipate and then eventually the number of games will begin to shrink if not completely disappear
no one will bother to create or maintain games for free...at least not at a very high quality
if someone hadn't taken the time to develop and create the Lineage2 world...it's doubtful that anyone managing a private server would have been able to create anything remotely resembling the quality of that game
sure they deserve credit for relaxing the levelling curve...as well as monitoring bots and other issues with more care than ncsoft...but the bottom line is that they are still parasites that are stealing from someone else...and just because ncsoft is stupid doesn't mean people have the right to steal from them
if you own a ferrari but you don't know how to drive it well...does that give me the right to steal it and drive it properly?...give me a f-ing break...
if lineage 2 loses it's subscription base...who will pay for chronicle 6?...who will pay for chronicle 7-12?
who will pay to translate lineage 3 and bring it to NA?
i agree that ncsoft dropped the ball on their management of lineage 2...but they still paid thousands if not millions developing a pretty cool game...but if people continue to find weak excuses to rationalize their theft of intellectual property...in the end...they will only end up ruining an industry that has given all of us a lot of pleasure
I'm not seeing how they are losing money. They broke the game and pri servers are fixing it.
If you wanna shut down the pri servers ok, do it. Alot of people still wont buy the game. That is money lost?
The only money that is lost is what THEY THINK they should be getting but the wouldnt have gotten it in the first place.
And of course you're not trolling, even though you spout off about how bad this site is, how bad it's members are, and talk about L2 in every post you make. Why are you spending your time posting here instead of playing a game, if we are going by your statement.
Who me troll??? never!
I like you guys here. You all say one thing then do another
You support private servers, you argue about the right and wrongs of gold buying on a site that advertises gold sites, you bash L2 for bots when you all know there are more in other games blah blah blah blah....
You troll L2 and let Ryzom die, a game that seems to fit your ideals here.
Elitest. Normally I would move on, I don't like cheater sites but this one caught my interest. I wanna be elite to, how much gold do I need to buy off of this site to be an elite member? Don't worry, im losing interest and will be moving on, but I want to press your buttons a few more times. I've only wasted 5 minutes or so per post, you guys have hundreds and thousands of post....how much time outta game is that for you ...???
19 years old and never heard of patents. Sad....
Edit:
Originally posted by thunderbolt1
Why shouldn't the people who play this game get upset with all you trolls?
This site is full of elitest who support private servers and support gold buying... this site is riddled with gold adds. And all you have the nerve to get up and post smack about a particular game for having bots lol. Then on top of it some of you are defending private servers, LMAO....you guys are classic here! I love you all.
My question is why there is anyone who is actually playing a game -- any game-- and part of a community, is even posting here. The people here just hop around flaming games they don't even play and offer nothing constructive or helpful. Just a bunch of gold buying, private server supporting elitist trolls here. Most of them don't even know wtf they are talking about.
And of course you're not trolling, even though you spout off about how bad this site is, how bad it's members are, and talk about L2 in every post you make. Why are you spending your time posting here instead of playing a game, if we are going by your statement.
Ok, I'll lick gravity and call dips. Now you cant use it. HA.
Make sense? Hopefully not. Maybe in your world it would. But I would hope to live in a place where when people make something that doesnt work, WORK, they dont get sued or shutdown because they didnt pay for it. Thats all this world is about? Money? If private servers would of paided or made some deal with NC so they could run the servers you think they would give a fuck? Probley not =/
They only care cause of what they thought they could of been making, when if they would of just actually listen to thier customers they would of far surpass the money they "loss" from pri servers.
And then maybe pri servers wouldnt even exist
*sigh* All i can say is, I hope someday oxygen cost $0.25 and you only have a nickel
Zorvan....do even play L2 or have ever played it?......recently .......(beta 3 years ago doesn't count)
My guess is no. You just came to troll the sites favorite punching bag and stayed for the great company right?
*sigh* wasn't funny or witty either. Just a trollish attack lol....772 post at 5 minutes each is how much time out of game? How much gold you need to buy here to be "elite"?
Dream on guys l2 private is still alive and kicking becouse a few bring down still hundreds of thousend european and us players play it.
And you know why becouse bots bots and bots grind grind grind thats why european and us players dont want that so private servers fill up the gap ncsoft dont understand:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Oh, yes. I have played it recently. There is a free trial here, remember? You know, the one the botters/farmers created hundreds of accounts to leech the keys from? And you need to get off the gold selling kick, also, because obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm one of the first people to report the scumsucking cockroaches when they spam these forums with their ads. And as for this site being plastered with goldselling sites, I only see one that has paid to advertise here. I also believe that private servers need to be closed down. Go back through those 772 posts I made and you might learn that. Finally, I don't need to be funny or witty to make my point that you are nothing but a trolling flamebaiter.
In fact, since your only reason for being here seems to be to trash this site, it's members, and troll this sites forums with your inane L2 gibberish, you are being reported as such. Please, feel free to respond with some more of your limited "insights" into the character of myself, this site, and it's members. You do more damage to your image then I could ever hope to achieve, loser. Buh-bye.
No, actually I don't own an MP3. I have a friend who is a fan of heavy medal and he has 80 Gigs of legit music of CDs he all owns. Sure MP3 players are also benificial to piraters, but oh well... Apple, Creative, whatever don't make the MP3 players for pirates they make it for music lovers who either DL legally or rip their CDs... Your point it pointless...
I agree, NCsoft kinda fudged the bucket on making it more "causal" for some players. I mean heck, I don't like the grind, but what I do like is the free updates, the friends I have, and the feeling that I am supporting something I generally like.
This is definately not a dying game! They make enough money world wide and in the NA market even if 60% of the servers may be farmers and botters, whatever...every MMO has farmers and 99% have bots...
Official has way less bugs than private servers. Private servers have less bots because there is no money to be made by professional farmers. I would like to see the private server mods try to combat the pro farmer waves and hacks. NCsoft makes a fix and Walker makes one a few hours later. It is constaint battle. If you knew anything Walker has updated 3 times within the last month or so... Thats almost every week. Whats the point of waisting resources every day when you know you will be beaten within a few hours... I would rather them keep relasing their free updates.
L2 isn't a game for eveyone. If you don't like it, just play a different game. It is NCsofts creation, if you even want to see another chronicle it would be best to support the company. Biting the hand that feeds you usually results in having no food!
this is the same tired rationalization that people use when they download music..."i wasn't gonna buy the cd anyway so it doesn't matter if i steal it"...fact of the matter remains...cd sales are down...less artists are able to hit platinum...
in an environment where music has never been more accessible or more heavily promoted by various online advertising and networking sites...more people than ever are listening to music...yet sales are down?
doesn't take a genius to figure out what is happening here
now one could argue because it is so much cheaper to produce a music cd rather than a movie or a game that music will continue to thrive and the artists can still make money from concert and club engagements...but for movies and games this will probably not be true...independent features and small art house dramas and romantic comedies with low budgets could probably be shot fairly cheaply on digital...but no way could studios produce major action and science fiction films on tiny budgets...so even though people like Peter Jackson and Spielberg could still probably get their projects made...but any other up and coming director working on a medium budget film of this type would probably not get greenlit if people knew that they couldn't make their money back because the 18-25 demographic was downloading everything and not going to the theaters or purchasing dvds.
the reality: if you don't pay for anything...one day the well will run dry
as far as lineage 2?
...of course most people on private servers wouldn't play it if it wasn't free but then again...what if ten percent or even five percent did want to play it?...all this money would go into ncsofts pockets and even though some of it goes back to their investors...a lot would go back into developing more games which of course would be beneficial to the gaming world in general
no matter how clever a private server manager is...he still would not be able to produce a lineage2 quality game by himself...if there were such people...then all of us would be happily playing on such a game as we speak...even though we don't like to admit it...we still need the ncsofts and blizzards development expertise...as most people would agree even the best f2p games are somewhat lacking
i'm really not trying to bash people over the head with a moral crusade...i'm more trying to convince people that supporting the infrastructure of the gaming and movie industries are in the fan's best interest
if intellectual property continues to be regarded as the public's domain...we are doomed to a future of homemade movies and games...and this era of films and games will be looked upon fondly and regretfully as a lost golden age