Originally posted by ayuchan Originally posted by SkSwitch I'm not seeing how they are losing money. They broke the game and pri servers are fixing it. If you wanna shut down the pri servers ok, do it. Alot of people still wont buy the game. That is money lost? The only money that is lost is what THEY THINK they should be getting but the wouldnt have gotten it in the first place.
this is the same tired rationalization that people use when they download music..."i wasn't gonna buy the cd anyway so it doesn't matter if i steal it"...fact of the matter remains...cd sales are down...less artists are able to hit platinum...
in an environment where music has never been more accessible or more heavily promoted by various online advertising and networking sites...more people than ever are listening to music...yet sales are down?
doesn't take a genius to figure out what is happening here
now one could argue because it is so much cheaper to produce a music cd rather than a movie or a game that music will continue to thrive and the artists can still make money from concert and club engagements...but for movies and games this will probably not be true...independent features and small art house dramas and romantic comedies with low budgets could probably be shot fairly cheaply on digital...but no way could studios produce major action and science fiction films on tiny budgets...so even though people like Peter Jackson and Spielberg could still probably get their projects made...but any other up and coming director working on a medium budget film of this type would probably not get greenlit if people knew that they couldn't make their money back because the 18-25 demographic was downloading everything and not going to the theaters or purchasing dvds.
the reality: if you don't pay for anything...one day the well will run dry
as far as lineage 2?
...of course most people on private servers wouldn't play it if it wasn't free but then again...what if ten percent or even five percent did want to play it?...all this money would go into ncsofts pockets and even though some of it goes back to their investors...a lot would go back into developing more games which of course would be beneficial to the gaming world in general
no matter how clever a private server manager is...he still would not be able to produce a lineage2 quality game by himself...if there were such people...then all of us would be happily playing on such a game as we speak...even though we don't like to admit it...we still need the ncsofts and blizzards development expertise...as most people would agree even the best f2p games are somewhat lacking
i'm really not trying to bash people over the head with a moral crusade...i'm more trying to convince people that supporting the infrastructure of the gaming and movie industries are in the fan's best interest
if intellectual property continues to be regarded as the public's domain...we are doomed to a future of homemade movies and games...and this era of films and games will be looked upon fondly and regretfully as a lost golden age
Just when I thought this forum lacked people who could display intelligence while presenting an arguement, I found this. Kudos to you.
The music industry is an interesting part of our soceity. They always seem to be slightly behind the times. Like, this whole MP3 player thing. Consumers have gone digital, companies are coming out with products to replay digital, MP3 encoded music, and yet the music industry insists on selling CDs. Maybe it is trying to hold on to artists being able to achieve Platinum status. I'll never really know.
If the music industry really wants to curb piracy, they should get with the times. I mean... vending machines are successful with snacks, why couldn't digital vending machines be successful with digital media? You could walk into a store, plugg your MP3 player into a machine, pop some change into it, select which songs you want, and Voila! You've got only the songs you want (and not the other 12 or 13 you don't want), legally. We have the technological capability to make selecting and transfering these songs (even movies?) extremely fast, reliable, and virus-free. Doing something like this would greatly lower the appeal of internet based downloading, especially if the vending machines carried thousands of songs, even ones that are no longer being sold in a hard format. This is a niche internet downloading fills much better than cds.
Yes, i do see the potential of a larger volume of songs being put online, but I can't think of too many songs that aren't out there already to begin with. Comments?
You do more damage to your image then I could ever hope to achieve, loser. Buh-bye.
Why does everyone on this site resort to name calling on this site when things start to get hairy??? What image? this is a web forum. There is no "image". I can stop posting, delete, make a new account, its not real. Report away, what did I do, express you harsh opinion and you didn't like it? Truth hurt that much??? Lost your cool is all lol.
You know I'm done with this elistist troll site away...when you get pinned in a corner or read something you don't like you just start name calling. I don't have time to read through 700+ arrogant post anyway.
By the way, to stay on topic, I'm still glad the private server is gone.
The new battle cry of the l2 troll "I did the free trial"......right.
Originally posted by thunderbolt1 Originally posted by Zorvan You do more damage to your image then I could ever hope to achieve, loser. Buh-bye.
Why does everyone on this site resort to name calling on this site when things start to get hairy??? What image? this is a web forum. There is no "image". I can stop posting, delete, make a new account, its not real. Report away, what did I do, express you harsh opinion and you didn't like it? Truth hurt that much??? Lost your cool is all lol. You know I'm done with this elistist troll site away...when you get pinned in a corner or read something you don't like you just start name calling. I don't have time to read through 700+ arrogant post anyway. By the way, to stay on topic, I'm still glad the private server is gone. The new battle cry of the l2 troll "I did the free trial"......right.
Why does everyone on this site resort to name calling on this site when things start to get hairy??? What image? this is a web forum.
I'm not sure but in debate class, people like that generally failed. Think it has a lot to do with being insecure, close minded, and generally having no interest in anyones opinon but their own.
@ayuchan, just lol at the record industry, shame the same will happen with the game industry.
Just when I thought this forum lacked people who could display intelligence while presenting an arguement, I found this. Kudos to you.
The music industry is an interesting part of our soceity. They always seem to be slightly behind the times. Like, this whole MP3 player thing. Consumers have gone digital, companies are coming out with products to replay digital, MP3 encoded music, and yet the music industry insists on selling CDs. Maybe it is trying to hold on to artists being able to achieve Platinum status. I'll never really know.
If the music industry really wants to curb piracy, they should get with the times. I mean... vending machines are successful with snacks, why couldn't digital vending machines be successful with digital media? You could walk into a store, plugg your MP3 player into a machine, pop some change into it, select which songs you want, and Voila! You've got only the songs you want (and not the other 12 or 13 you don't want), legally. We have the technological capability to make selecting and transfering these songs (even movies?) extremely fast, reliable, and virus-free. Doing something like this would greatly lower the appeal of internet based downloading, especially if the vending machines carried thousands of songs, even ones that are no longer being sold in a hard format. This is a niche internet downloading fills much better than cds.
Yes, i do see the potential of a larger volume of songs being put online, but I can't think of too many songs that aren't out there already to begin with. Comments?
ty for your comments on my earlier post
your idea is interesting...it seems like it might have some potential in certain highly populated areas like coffee houses...waiting areas at airports or bus stops...any place where you would need to wait long periods of time with nothing to do...assuming there were no internet hubs nearby.
it would be an improvement on the current business models in that it would accomodate the newer forms of digital media...and would require much less overhead because it would take up way less real estate and not need sales people to ring up any charges
the only thing i wonder about is whether such a machine would be able to successfully be able to secure licenses to sell thousands of songs and still be profitable...it would need a monitor with a cpu capable of displaying videos and various ads while inactive...and provide either a wide array of the most popular new music or target specific niche markets based on the particular demographic where the machine was placed
i noticed 7/11 and even some grocery stores attempting half-ass dvd stores with extremely limited selection...and almost all of them failed...(I'm assuming this because they have since been removed) but if you were able to find a way to convince all the major labels to get behind this idea and provide "thousands" of songs including all the major chart toppers as well as those in heavy rotation on college radio and clubs then it might have a chance
anyway...the key to survival in this world of rapidly evolving technology is having a staff capable of responding to the almost instantaneous challenges of customer needs in this industry
the one thing that i agree with all the disgruntled former lineage customers is that they took a good game and ran it into the ground...i think they became trapped in a vicious cycle...the game didn't meet their sales expectations...probably staff was cut in response to this...and then they became entrenched in this catch-22 situation where people were quitting because of the farmers and botters...and yet they couldn't afford to get rid of the farmers and botters because they were already below projected subscription rates...so then they panicked and started talking out of both sides of their mouths and lied about stopping the botters...and then when even more people quit they started to really ban the botters but by then it was too late
if anyone learns anything from all of this it is that you must think in terms of weekly adjustments and not in terms of fiscal quarters anymore...while trends of the past took years to evolve...now things change weekly if not daily or hourly...I think companies that listen to their customers and adapt immediately to their demands will survive...and I think those that take the old fashioned stand of "this is our product...take it or leave it"...are doomed to fail
once again...none of this excuses all the rampant piracy that has occured the past decade...but those most capable of responding to the customers needs will be least vulnerable to the damage caused by the thievery because the most preventable thefts are those where a legit product would have been favored over a bootleg version but where bootlegs thrived because of the vacuum in the market
ncsoft should have opened a relaxed server for those that didn't have the time to grind...they should have opened a pay to play server for those that wanted to be able to purchase their items...they should have had a legit server where all botters and third party users were immediately banned...and then none of this private server bullsh1t would have happened
they could have have merged three of their dead servers and opened these three alternate servers and then everyone would have been happy...including their stockholders
who knows maybe they wanted to do all these things but ncsoft korea wouldn't let them
The people here just hop around flaming games they don't even play and offer nothing constructive or helpful. Just a bunch of gold buying, private server supporting elitist trolls here. Most of them don't even know wtf they are talking about.
I'm kind of surprised to see anyone supporting private servers at all to be honest. To advocate easier servers for L2 is like advocating non raid servers or whatever for WoW. Private servers are still not justified. Basically thats what it is, plain and simple. Just because you don't like the way a game is doesn't give anyone the right to pirate it. The game is what it is. WoW is what it is, EQII is what it is. L2 is what it is. (this isn't directed at any one particular poster, just a general statement)
I'm pretty happy to hear about it. NCSoft is making alot of right moves lately. The game is growing, there are mass bannings, they altered the billing to keep a tighter control on things (see my story about the billing), closed down private server and there is something special on the horizon for bot users. whats wrong with that? Why do people wish games bad things or try to justify illegal activities in them simply because they don't like them? Other players do like / enjoy the game so leave them alone. I never went to another forum and felt compelled to trash a game because I didn't like it. I try to respect other peoples tastes/opinions in things.
I can understand the frustration of some of the posters here. Us L2 players take a thrashing for no real reason. Thats one of the reasons I stopped posting this site. To many negitives and many people arguing over things just for the sake of arguing. I'm just repeating myself now.
This whole topic is a mess. Private servers are illegal as clearly demonstrated by the FBI closing it down. There is really nothing else to say beyond that.
once again...none of this excuses all the rampant piracy that has occured the past decade...but those most capable of responding to the customers needs will be least vulnerable to the damage caused by the thievery because the most preventable thefts are those where a legit product would have been favored over a bootleg version but where bootlegs thrived because of the vacuum in the market
Nicely said.
I personally think that one day these laws will be challenged. It has happened in the past with women and minorities, and I'd say both of those turned out really well. I'm just hoping that soceity doesn't crazily spin in one direction or the other. This thread has proven that piracy is a touchy topic, no less than rights movements were in the past, and if any changes are ever made, it has to be thoroughly examined. Both sides have equally covincing arguements... although the most common arguement against piracy seems to be "It's the law," which is a feeble arguement, considering it hasn't won in other situations in the past.
EDIT: I gotta get out of the habit of double-posting. Torak, I found this in one of your posts:
F*CK it, never mind. The server is totally overrun with bots. Screw it. NCSoft sucks. Meet me in WoW if you want.
once again...none of this excuses all the rampant piracy that has occured the past decade...but those most capable of responding to the customers needs will be least vulnerable to the damage caused by the thievery because the most preventable thefts are those where a legit product would have been favored over a bootleg version but where bootlegs thrived because of the vacuum in the market
Nicely said.
I personally think that one day these laws will be challenged. It has happened in the past with women and minorities, and I'd say both of those turned out really well. I'm just hoping that soceity doesn't crazily spin in one direction or the other. This thread has proven that piracy is a touchy topic, no less than rights movements were in the past, and if any changes are ever made, it has to be thoroughly examined. Both sides have equally covincing arguements... although the most common arguement against piracy seems to be "It's the law," which is a feeble arguement, considering it hasn't won in other situations in the past.
EDIT: I gotta get out of the habit of double-posting. Torak, I found this in one of your posts:
F*CK it, never mind. The server is totally overrun with bots. Screw it. NCSoft sucks. Meet me in WoW if you want.
I abandon this game.
Hmmmm... Interesting :P
See, this is what I'm talking about...now why you attacking me???
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Don't cry Torak here is what someone said to me in another thread even though I didn't do it. I noticed your Money guide got hit by a pro ebayer as well despite the fact the mod said he would not let that happen. I'm guessing your popular here (not) because you are legit lol.
I love this site! (cool smileys to) I saw there a bunch of threads named "Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread all over the place. This is good, official troll threads. That says alot about this community. The mods are so tired of dealing with it they are trying to contain it!!!!! I also noticed that there are very very few guides at all by players on this site for any game just alot of hot air....strangely enough L2 has the most (guides and hot air).
And now like moths to a flame, they will come.
Originally posted by trigger190 Scooping trough someones post history for anything bad isn't really a way to get your point across.
I didn't have to "dig through' anyones history, it's in the post right below this one smart guy.
I love the hypocrisy here, you all condem a game for bots and farmers knowing damn well all games have them and on a site that advertises for gold. Classic. Bunch of elitist here lol
Originally posted by SantaClaws48 I don't see how your post is on topic/related to L2 private servers other than an attempt to troll the forums.
Maybe, but your guy torak makes one comment and someone digs through his post history until they find something ugly to repost for no reason....and thats not trolling him?
Then at the other end someone "elite" from this site tells me that digging through someones post history for dirt is a bad thing to do (even though I never did it) Its not just me trolling here...I'm just pointing it out.
That was a pretty quick response. Like the attention? As I said earlier, I don't see the point of any of your posts other than trying to troll the forums. Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to complain about other people posting here b/c of the ingame sale ads but you are posting here at the same time?
Originally posted by TorakSee, this is what I'm talking about...now why you attacking me???
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
it is nice they are taking action against the p.servers, though i dont think it will help the regular servers much. Since all the regular servers will get are either a bunch of immature jackasses, or a bunch of people who want to ebay and bot.
So shutting them down will help and hurt them at the same time
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
Originally posted by RisingShade Originally posted by TorakSee, this is what I'm talking about...now why you attacking me???
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
Risingshade,
there is a difference between hating the company and defending THE LAW. This is the deal. It is against the law to make a private server and all that jazz and thus people should follow the law. It is illegal, people are using intellectual property for their own benefit subsequently and potentially making NCsoft lose money. The point that they cracked down on someone abusing their product shoudn't be argued.
If i spent time and money creating a game and someone was stealing my profit, i'd be upset too. The other point is that NCsoft has no problems with botters breaking their EULA. So some people may find it hypocritical that they dint' care about botters that much but care about private servers.
The difference is, the EULA isn't state/federal law or whatever, it is a contract. They can enforce that contract as much as they want, but when it is against the state/federal law they can take other action.
Of course, we all know it comes down to money and I wouldn't be surprised if they did this as a marketing tool to attract attention.
I mean, they do a sweep of the bots on many servers, come out with a free trial, and then raid a private server. Next they'll start to go out with Britney Spears. Getting back to it.
Torak si supporting the protection of company assets and NCsoft is just the example, he's not advocating NCsoft's gaming capabilities, he's just saying that company assets should be protected, it is a good law and if it wasn't the case, who would have an incentive to create anything if someone could just steal it.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Originally posted by Cryomatrix Originally posted by RisingShade Originally posted by TorakSee, this is what I'm talking about...now why you attacking me???
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
Risingshade,
there is a difference between hating the company and defending THE LAW. This is the deal. It is against the law to make a private server and all that jazz and thus people should follow the law. It is illegal, people are using intellectual property for their own benefit subsequently and potentially making NCsoft lose money. The point that they cracked down on someone abusing their product shoudn't be argued.
If i spent time and money creating a game and someone was stealing my profit, i'd be upset too. The other point is that NCsoft has no problems with botters breaking their EULA. So some people may find it hypocritical that they dint' care about botters that much but care about private servers.
The difference is, the EULA isn't state/federal law or whatever, it is a contract. They can enforce that contract as much as they want, but when it is against the state/federal law they can take other action.
Of course, we all know it comes down to money and I wouldn't be surprised if they did this as a marketing tool to attract attention.
I mean, they do a sweep of the bots on many servers, come out with a free trial, and then raid a private server. Next they'll start to go out with Britney Spears. Getting back to it.
Torak si supporting the protection of company assets and NCsoft is just the example, he's not advocating NCsoft's gaming capabilities, he's just saying that company assets should be protected, it is a good law and if it wasn't the case, who would have an incentive to create anything if someone could just steal it.
Cryomatrix Ohhhhhh! I see your point now - the law is the law, and it can never be challenged because it is perfect in every way possible. It can never be improved.
You've got me thinking though - I'm surprised noone has come up with a game where botting is legal. I mean... imagine the profits they could make! There's enough people willing to bot to pay for several accounts, and if the game was easy on system resources so that people could run several clients at the same time...
But then that would defeat the purpose of botting, wouldn't it? If everyone was botting, the playing field would again be level in that regard. Which would leave the economy as the only other place to gain an advantage, and game admins could easily control this too (some games have been selling currency for real money for a long time now...) And so that game wouldn't have any real appeal, and would be a failure. That's funny... give the botters and ebayers what they want, and suddenly they don't want it.
Ohhhhhh! I see your point now - the law is the law, and it can never be challenged because it is perfect in every way possible. It can never be improved.
Dude,
I was commenting on one point.
1. Torak was talking about two different things, he was upholding the law and not upholding NCsoft, yet you tried to paint him as confusing the two.
Risingshade,
I read the remainder of the thread and i agree with one of the points you made about how people should take a look at things and make them better, this is how the technology got started etc.
The problem is, the people owning the private servers should have took the L2 model, made it better, made their own game based on the lessons htey learned and then released it. The problem is, they broke the law, and I think it is a good law.
if I knew someone coudl take my idea, take it further, and shut me out using 95% of my work, there would be no incentive to invent anything, that's the problem. There needs to be an incentive to CREATE, that's the reason for copyright law and all this jazz, if you can't protect your investment, then why even bother.
I've played on private servers for diablo 2 (way better than blizzard's) but it was a free game anyway. But in the end, this law is for the best in my opinion.
Have a nice day, I hope NCsoft goes out of business though lol.
Cryomatrix
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
That's really smart. You see all the posts here from people who are against private servers so you psot one with a donations link. Did it ever occur to you that they would send your link to NCSoft? People are just amazing.
Originally posted by SantaClaws48 That's really smart. You see all the posts here from people who are against private servers so you psot one with a donations link. Did it ever occur to you that they would send your link to NCSoft? People are just amazing. Not just against private servers, but against them making money off of someone else's work. Not even I agree with that.
Originally posted by Cryomatrix
Ohhhhhh! I see your point now - the law is the law, and it can never be challenged because it is perfect in every way possible. It can never be improved.
Dude,
I was commenting on one point.
1. Torak was talking about two different things, he was upholding the law and not upholding NCsoft, yet you tried to paint him as confusing the two.
Risingshade,
I read the remainder of the thread and i agree with one of the points you made about how people should take a look at things and make them better, this is how the technology got started etc.
The problem is, the people owning the private servers should have took the L2 model, made it better, made their own game based on the lessons htey learned and then released it. The problem is, they broke the law, and I think it is a good law.
if I knew someone coudl take my idea, take it further, and shut me out using 95% of my work, there would be no incentive to invent anything, that's the problem. There needs to be an incentive to CREATE, that's the reason for copyright law and all this jazz, if you can't protect your investment, then why even bother.
I've played on private servers for diablo 2 (way better than blizzard's) but it was a free game anyway. But in the end, this law is for the best in my opinion.
Have a nice day, I hope NCsoft goes out of business though lol.
Cryomatrix
Cryomatrix Good point.
But I still think that if this was carefully done, everything could be above the law, and it would be a win-win situation for everyone. The game makers could devote more time (and therefore money) to implementing bug fixes that worked on the priv servers instead of trying to find the bugs in the first place, which takes a lot more time. Priv servers would have access to a 100% free and legit copy of the server files. If this happened, I would be completely against any sort of piracy with that game. The idea is that the official game would be the most up-to-date server, which I think is a fair trade off.
I guess the biggest problem would be coordinating the fixes, and there's the huge question of how much input someone providing the free service would have to give.
I've been posting here hoping that maybe someday someone in the upper echelon of a gaming company tries these ideas out. That is the only way to prove or disprove them. This is a huge forum, and this thread has gotten many views. If my ideas were adopted, then it would radically change the gaming industry - private servers would encouraged, rather than scorned upon.
I will never support anyone trying to make money off of someone else's work.
I have based my arguements on two things:
1. A private server I play on. It was shut down by NCSoft because it too closely resembled the official servers, and because the admin had more things working than NCSoft did. I sympathize with someone like this - he is not trying to make a profit, but only to provide the game to his friends. 2. I was a GM for a private RO server running on eAthena. eAthena was, to the best of my knowledge, ruled legal by courts somewhere in Asia - either Singapoure, Indonesia, or South Korea, I forget the exact place. So now there are quite a few private RO servers running, and the makers of RO can do nothing about it. A lost opportunity imo.
---------------------------------------------
Hmmm... interesting. It seems L2X was running on leaked C1 files which had been upgraded, and that is why it got shut down. Don't take my word for this though... it's only what i'm hearing.
I see where you are coming from, ideally this may work, but companies in general do not do what is best for everyone, they make money. A good video game company makes the most money not the best game.
The thing about 100% free source-code and the gaming company having the most up-to-date server would fail. The reason is why would a gaming company do 99% of the work, to release it free and then have to compete with other people. Not only are they competing against other people, they are competing against a hell of a lot of people. Furthermore, the most up-to-date server may not be the most attractive server once again cutting into revenue.
Overall, the gaming company is doing 99% of the work, to release it as is, and then letting people carve niches with their own type of private server destroying the revenue.
It's like, NCsoft comes out with Lineage 2 version Legit, then 15 other people come out with lineage 2 version 1.0 to 15.0. The NCsoft is more up-to-date, but I like version 7.0, Tom likes version 3.0, Dick likes version 1.0, Harry likes version 9.0 and boom. NCsoft goes out of business, the crappy versions go out of business. Versions 1, 3 and 7 start charging a monthly fee and they get all the money and NCsoft is screwed beyond belief.
I've played on Private servers in Diablo 2 and they rock, only problem with private servers is lack of population and probability of having broken aspects. But in reality though, if i wanted to start a gaming company, I would never create a game from scratch, i'd buy an existing game and just make it better. It's easier to do that.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Ugh..reading the rationalizations by people here for running Private servers or illegally downloading music made my head hurt.
To all of you who support this. The taking of intellectual or physical property without paying for it is wrong. There is no gray here..its a black and white issue. No amount of reasoning on your part changes the fact that those who do it are criminals. (according to the laws of the US). Yes, that's right, I'm calling you criminals. Don't like it? Don't steal other peoples stuff.
And don't bring legal arguments in on this. You all know in your hearts you are stealing... you just have no problem with it because it suits your selfish nature. But if you were a person who actually created things for a living you'd understand more the error of your ways.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran Ugh..reading the rationalizations by people here for running Private servers or illegally downloading music made my head hurt. To all of you who support this. The taking of intellectual or physical property without paying for it is wrong. There is no gray here..its a black and white issue. No amount of reasoning on your part changes the fact that those who do it are criminals. (according to the laws of the US). Yes, that's right, I'm calling you criminals. Don't like it? Don't steal other peoples stuff. And don't bring legal arguments in on this. You all know in your hearts you are stealing... you just have no problem with it because it suits your selfish nature. But if you were a person who actually created things for a living you'd understand more the error of your ways.
lol it's people like you that created the laws and probably people like you that get burned by them in the end.
At least they had the sense to call them copyright violations and not stealing. If it was stealing, all the old laws on theft would apply, so please don't compare and act like you know something.
Originally posted by RisingShade ...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
Its cool, I just found it sort of odd. That comment was made over 3 months ago and its like 20 pages back in my history. If you just take a casual look through the more recent history you can see three things.
I have serious issues with the way NCSoft runs the game and their lack of action when it comes to bots/cheaters
I never said I hated the game. The game itself isn't the problem, its how its administered. In fact I enjoy the game a great deal. It disappoints me to no end when NCSoft reacts the way they do when the entire bot thing comes up.
I was one of the strongest defenders of this game for a very long time. I've even worn the tag "fanboi" (because it means nothing except to a troll or flamer who is looking to attack someone) and never really suffered any ill effects from this community for it.
To me games are a matter of personal taste. No one is better or worse then any other all things being equal. I enjoy L2, I also enjoy WoW and several other games. There are things I don't like about L2. There are things I don't like about WoW. There is something I like/dislike in every game...just like many other people.
I don't want to really argue about it with you but in the future try to be a bit more courteous to other posters and don't post stuff that can be inerpreted as an attack. (unless you mean to or you want to be viewed as a troll like other posters in this thread) In this case I warrented no such reaction. I can be an ass though if I need to be. I usually save that for the irrational L2 haters.
So all in all, I still think its a good thing the private server is gone. To bad its just that one. Hopefully as the legal process kicks in more and more will be shut down.
EDIT
And its not just L2 private servers I'm talking about. ALL private servers for whatever game.
Comments
this is the same tired rationalization that people use when they download music..."i wasn't gonna buy the cd anyway so it doesn't matter if i steal it"...fact of the matter remains...cd sales are down...less artists are able to hit platinum...
in an environment where music has never been more accessible or more heavily promoted by various online advertising and networking sites...more people than ever are listening to music...yet sales are down?
doesn't take a genius to figure out what is happening here
now one could argue because it is so much cheaper to produce a music cd rather than a movie or a game that music will continue to thrive and the artists can still make money from concert and club engagements...but for movies and games this will probably not be true...independent features and small art house dramas and romantic comedies with low budgets could probably be shot fairly cheaply on digital...but no way could studios produce major action and science fiction films on tiny budgets...so even though people like Peter Jackson and Spielberg could still probably get their projects made...but any other up and coming director working on a medium budget film of this type would probably not get greenlit if people knew that they couldn't make their money back because the 18-25 demographic was downloading everything and not going to the theaters or purchasing dvds.
the reality: if you don't pay for anything...one day the well will run dry
as far as lineage 2?
...of course most people on private servers wouldn't play it if it wasn't free but then again...what if ten percent or even five percent did want to play it?...all this money would go into ncsofts pockets and even though some of it goes back to their investors...a lot would go back into developing more games which of course would be beneficial to the gaming world in general
no matter how clever a private server manager is...he still would not be able to produce a lineage2 quality game by himself...if there were such people...then all of us would be happily playing on such a game as we speak...even though we don't like to admit it...we still need the ncsofts and blizzards development expertise...as most people would agree even the best f2p games are somewhat lacking
i'm really not trying to bash people over the head with a moral crusade...i'm more trying to convince people that supporting the infrastructure of the gaming and movie industries are in the fan's best interest
if intellectual property continues to be regarded as the public's domain...we are doomed to a future of homemade movies and games...and this era of films and games will be looked upon fondly and regretfully as a lost golden age
Just when I thought this forum lacked people who could display intelligence while presenting an arguement, I found this. Kudos to you.
The music industry is an interesting part of our soceity. They always seem to be slightly behind the times. Like, this whole MP3 player thing. Consumers have gone digital, companies are coming out with products to replay digital, MP3 encoded music, and yet the music industry insists on selling CDs. Maybe it is trying to hold on to artists being able to achieve Platinum status. I'll never really know.
If the music industry really wants to curb piracy, they should get with the times. I mean... vending machines are successful with snacks, why couldn't digital vending machines be successful with digital media? You could walk into a store, plugg your MP3 player into a machine, pop some change into it, select which songs you want, and Voila! You've got only the songs you want (and not the other 12 or 13 you don't want), legally. We have the technological capability to make selecting and transfering these songs (even movies?) extremely fast, reliable, and virus-free. Doing something like this would greatly lower the appeal of internet based downloading, especially if the vending machines carried thousands of songs, even ones that are no longer being sold in a hard format. This is a niche internet downloading fills much better than cds.
Yes, i do see the potential of a larger volume of songs being put online, but I can't think of too many songs that aren't out there already to begin with. Comments?
Why does everyone on this site resort to name calling on this site when things start to get hairy??? What image? this is a web forum. There is no "image". I can stop posting, delete, make a new account, its not real. Report away, what did I do, express you harsh opinion and you didn't like it? Truth hurt that much??? Lost your cool is all lol.
You know I'm done with this elistist troll site away...when you get pinned in a corner or read something you don't like you just start name calling. I don't have time to read through 700+ arrogant post anyway.
By the way, to stay on topic, I'm still glad the private server is gone.
The new battle cry of the l2 troll "I did the free trial"......right.
Why does everyone on this site resort to name calling on this site when things start to get hairy??? What image? this is a web forum. There is no "image". I can stop posting, delete, make a new account, its not real. Report away, what did I do, express you harsh opinion and you didn't like it? Truth hurt that much??? Lost your cool is all lol.
You know I'm done with this elistist troll site away...when you get pinned in a corner or read something you don't like you just start name calling. I don't have time to read through 700+ arrogant post anyway.
By the way, to stay on topic, I'm still glad the private server is gone.
The new battle cry of the l2 troll "I did the free trial"......right.
*sigh* You're not even worth it. Have fun.
@ayuchan, just lol at the record industry, shame the same will happen with the game industry.
http://www.eff.org/share/petition/
The music industry is an interesting part of our soceity. They always seem to be slightly behind the times. Like, this whole MP3 player thing. Consumers have gone digital, companies are coming out with products to replay digital, MP3 encoded music, and yet the music industry insists on selling CDs. Maybe it is trying to hold on to artists being able to achieve Platinum status. I'll never really know.
If the music industry really wants to curb piracy, they should get with the times. I mean... vending machines are successful with snacks, why couldn't digital vending machines be successful with digital media? You could walk into a store, plugg your MP3 player into a machine, pop some change into it, select which songs you want, and Voila! You've got only the songs you want (and not the other 12 or 13 you don't want), legally. We have the technological capability to make selecting and transfering these songs (even movies?) extremely fast, reliable, and virus-free. Doing something like this would greatly lower the appeal of internet based downloading, especially if the vending machines carried thousands of songs, even ones that are no longer being sold in a hard format. This is a niche internet downloading fills much better than cds.
Yes, i do see the potential of a larger volume of songs being put online, but I can't think of too many songs that aren't out there already to begin with. Comments?
ty for your comments on my earlier post
your idea is interesting...it seems like it might have some potential in certain highly populated areas like coffee houses...waiting areas at airports or bus stops...any place where you would need to wait long periods of time with nothing to do...assuming there were no internet hubs nearby.
it would be an improvement on the current business models in that it would accomodate the newer forms of digital media...and would require much less overhead because it would take up way less real estate and not need sales people to ring up any charges
the only thing i wonder about is whether such a machine would be able to successfully be able to secure licenses to sell thousands of songs and still be profitable...it would need a monitor with a cpu capable of displaying videos and various ads while inactive...and provide either a wide array of the most popular new music or target specific niche markets based on the particular demographic where the machine was placed
i noticed 7/11 and even some grocery stores attempting half-ass dvd stores with extremely limited selection...and almost all of them failed...(I'm assuming this because they have since been removed) but if you were able to find a way to convince all the major labels to get behind this idea and provide "thousands" of songs including all the major chart toppers as well as those in heavy rotation on college radio and clubs then it might have a chance
anyway...the key to survival in this world of rapidly evolving technology is having a staff capable of responding to the almost instantaneous challenges of customer needs in this industry
the one thing that i agree with all the disgruntled former lineage customers is that they took a good game and ran it into the ground...i think they became trapped in a vicious cycle...the game didn't meet their sales expectations...probably staff was cut in response to this...and then they became entrenched in this catch-22 situation where people were quitting because of the farmers and botters...and yet they couldn't afford to get rid of the farmers and botters because they were already below projected subscription rates...so then they panicked and started talking out of both sides of their mouths and lied about stopping the botters...and then when even more people quit they started to really ban the botters but by then it was too late
if anyone learns anything from all of this it is that you must think in terms of weekly adjustments and not in terms of fiscal quarters anymore...while trends of the past took years to evolve...now things change weekly if not daily or hourly...I think companies that listen to their customers and adapt immediately to their demands will survive...and I think those that take the old fashioned stand of "this is our product...take it or leave it"...are doomed to fail
once again...none of this excuses all the rampant piracy that has occured the past decade...but those most capable of responding to the customers needs will be least vulnerable to the damage caused by the thievery because the most preventable thefts are those where a legit product would have been favored over a bootleg version but where bootlegs thrived because of the vacuum in the market
ncsoft should have opened a relaxed server for those that didn't have the time to grind...they should have opened a pay to play server for those that wanted to be able to purchase their items...they should have had a legit server where all botters and third party users were immediately banned...and then none of this private server bullsh1t would have happened
they could have have merged three of their dead servers and opened these three alternate servers and then everyone would have been happy...including their stockholders
who knows maybe they wanted to do all these things but ncsoft korea wouldn't let them
"Interesting" topic.
I'm kind of surprised to see anyone supporting private servers at all to be honest. To advocate easier servers for L2 is like advocating non raid servers or whatever for WoW. Private servers are still not justified. Basically thats what it is, plain and simple. Just because you don't like the way a game is doesn't give anyone the right to pirate it. The game is what it is. WoW is what it is, EQII is what it is. L2 is what it is. (this isn't directed at any one particular poster
, just a general statement)
I'm pretty happy to hear about it. NCSoft is making alot of right moves lately. The game is growing, there are mass bannings, they altered the billing to keep a tighter control on things (see my story about the billing), closed down private server and there is something special on the horizon for bot users. whats wrong with that? Why do people wish games bad things or try to justify illegal activities in them simply because they don't like them? Other players do like / enjoy the game so leave them alone. I never went to another forum and felt compelled to trash a game because I didn't like it. I try to respect other peoples tastes/opinions in things.
I can understand the frustration of some of the posters here. Us L2 players take a thrashing for no real reason. Thats one of the reasons I stopped posting this site. To many negitives and many people arguing over things just for the sake of arguing. I'm just repeating myself now.
This whole topic is a mess. Private servers are illegal as clearly demonstrated by the FBI closing it down. There is really nothing else to say beyond that.
once again...none of this excuses all the rampant piracy that has occured the past decade...but those most capable of responding to the customers needs will be least vulnerable to the damage caused by the thievery because the most preventable thefts are those where a legit product would have been favored over a bootleg version but where bootlegs thrived because of the vacuum in the market
Nicely said.I personally think that one day these laws will be challenged. It has happened in the past with women and minorities, and I'd say both of those turned out really well. I'm just hoping that soceity doesn't crazily spin in one direction or the other. This thread has proven that piracy is a touchy topic, no less than rights movements were in the past, and if any changes are ever made, it has to be thoroughly examined. Both sides have equally covincing arguements... although the most common arguement against piracy seems to be "It's the law," which is a feeble arguement, considering it hasn't won in other situations in the past.
EDIT: I gotta get out of the habit of double-posting. Torak, I found this in one of your posts:
F*CK it, never mind. The server is totally overrun with bots. Screw it. NCSoft sucks. Meet me in WoW if you want.
I abandon this game.
Hmmmm... Interesting :Ponce again...none of this excuses all the rampant piracy that has occured the past decade...but those most capable of responding to the customers needs will be least vulnerable to the damage caused by the thievery because the most preventable thefts are those where a legit product would have been favored over a bootleg version but where bootlegs thrived because of the vacuum in the market
Nicely said.I personally think that one day these laws will be challenged. It has happened in the past with women and minorities, and I'd say both of those turned out really well. I'm just hoping that soceity doesn't crazily spin in one direction or the other. This thread has proven that piracy is a touchy topic, no less than rights movements were in the past, and if any changes are ever made, it has to be thoroughly examined. Both sides have equally covincing arguements... although the most common arguement against piracy seems to be "It's the law," which is a feeble arguement, considering it hasn't won in other situations in the past.
EDIT: I gotta get out of the habit of double-posting. Torak, I found this in one of your posts:
F*CK it, never mind. The server is totally overrun with bots. Screw it. NCSoft sucks. Meet me in WoW if you want.
I abandon this game.
Hmmmm... Interesting :PSee, this is what I'm talking about...now why you attacking me???
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
LMAO,
Don't cry Torak here is what someone said to me in another thread even though I didn't do it. I noticed your Money guide got hit by a pro ebayer as well despite the fact the mod said he would not let that happen. I'm guessing your popular here (not) because you are legit lol.
I love this site!
(cool smileys to) I saw there a bunch of threads named "Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread all over the place. This is good, official troll threads. That says alot about this community. The mods are so tired of dealing with it they are trying to contain it!!!!! I also noticed that there are very very few guides at all by players on this site for any game just alot of hot air....strangely enough L2 has the most (guides and hot air).
And now like moths to a flame, they will come.
I didn't have to "dig through' anyones history, it's in the post right below this one smart guy.
I love the hypocrisy here, you all condem a game for bots and farmers knowing damn well all games have them and on a site that advertises for gold. Classic. Bunch of elitist here lol
Maybe, but your guy torak makes one comment and someone digs through his post history until they find something ugly to repost for no reason....and thats not trolling him?
Then at the other end someone "elite" from this site tells me that digging through someones post history for dirt is a bad thing to do (even though I never did it) Its not just me trolling here...I'm just pointing it out.
That was a pretty quick response. Like the attention? As I said earlier, I don't see the point of any of your posts other than trying to troll the forums. Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to complain about other people posting here b/c of the ingame sale ads but you are posting here at the same time?
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
So shutting them down will help and hurt them at the same time
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
Risingshade,
there is a difference between hating the company and defending THE LAW. This is the deal. It is against the law to make a private server and all that jazz and thus people should follow the law. It is illegal, people are using intellectual property for their own benefit subsequently and potentially making NCsoft lose money. The point that they cracked down on someone abusing their product shoudn't be argued.
If i spent time and money creating a game and someone was stealing my profit, i'd be upset too. The other point is that NCsoft has no problems with botters breaking their EULA. So some people may find it hypocritical that they dint' care about botters that much but care about private servers.
The difference is, the EULA isn't state/federal law or whatever, it is a contract. They can enforce that contract as much as they want, but when it is against the state/federal law they can take other action.
Of course, we all know it comes down to money and I wouldn't be surprised if they did this as a marketing tool to attract attention.
I mean, they do a sweep of the bots on many servers, come out with a free trial, and then raid a private server. Next they'll start to go out with Britney Spears. Getting back to it.
Torak si supporting the protection of company assets and NCsoft is just the example, he's not advocating NCsoft's gaming capabilities, he's just saying that company assets should be protected, it is a good law and if it wasn't the case, who would have an incentive to create anything if someone could just steal it.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Yeah, I wrote that so what? It doesnt change the fact that the FBI shut down a private server. Geez, this site really has taken a turn for the worse. Why you combing through my post? I can't make a comment about piracy? Did you read the entire post / history or where you just interested in bashing me alittle? what the heck did I do?
Thats what I find interesting.
...combing through posts? lol! I don't have that kind of time. Look at my post count... two of those are double posts.
I came across it while poking around the other forums. If it came out as bashing, I apologize. I just found it odd that, for someone who has admitted they hate the game (and pretty bad, it seems) you still manage to defend it. Not too many people can come close to that.
I'm going to keep posting here just to see what else people can accuse me of doing
Risingshade,
there is a difference between hating the company and defending THE LAW. This is the deal. It is against the law to make a private server and all that jazz and thus people should follow the law. It is illegal, people are using intellectual property for their own benefit subsequently and potentially making NCsoft lose money. The point that they cracked down on someone abusing their product shoudn't be argued.
If i spent time and money creating a game and someone was stealing my profit, i'd be upset too. The other point is that NCsoft has no problems with botters breaking their EULA. So some people may find it hypocritical that they dint' care about botters that much but care about private servers.
The difference is, the EULA isn't state/federal law or whatever, it is a contract. They can enforce that contract as much as they want, but when it is against the state/federal law they can take other action.
Of course, we all know it comes down to money and I wouldn't be surprised if they did this as a marketing tool to attract attention.
I mean, they do a sweep of the bots on many servers, come out with a free trial, and then raid a private server. Next they'll start to go out with Britney Spears. Getting back to it.
Torak si supporting the protection of company assets and NCsoft is just the example, he's not advocating NCsoft's gaming capabilities, he's just saying that company assets should be protected, it is a good law and if it wasn't the case, who would have an incentive to create anything if someone could just steal it.
Cryomatrix
Ohhhhhh! I see your point now - the law is the law, and it can never be challenged because it is perfect in every way possible. It can never be improved.
You've got me thinking though - I'm surprised noone has come up with a game where botting is legal. I mean... imagine the profits they could make! There's enough people willing to bot to pay for several accounts, and if the game was easy on system resources so that people could run several clients at the same time...
But then that would defeat the purpose of botting, wouldn't it? If everyone was botting, the playing field would again be level in that regard. Which would leave the economy as the only other place to gain an advantage, and game admins could easily control this too (some games have been selling currency for real money for a long time now...) And so that game wouldn't have any real appeal, and would be a failure. That's funny... give the botters and ebayers what they want, and suddenly they don't want it.
Dude,
I was commenting on one point.
1. Torak was talking about two different things, he was upholding the law and not upholding NCsoft, yet you tried to paint him as confusing the two.
Risingshade,
I read the remainder of the thread and i agree with one of the points you made about how people should take a look at things and make them better, this is how the technology got started etc.
The problem is, the people owning the private servers should have took the L2 model, made it better, made their own game based on the lessons htey learned and then released it. The problem is, they broke the law, and I think it is a good law.
if I knew someone coudl take my idea, take it further, and shut me out using 95% of my work, there would be no incentive to invent anything, that's the problem. There needs to be an incentive to CREATE, that's the reason for copyright law and all this jazz, if you can't protect your investment, then why even bother.
I've played on private servers for diablo 2 (way better than blizzard's) but it was a free game anyway. But in the end, this law is for the best in my opinion.
Have a nice day, I hope NCsoft goes out of business though lol.
Cryomatrix
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
That's
really smart. You see all the posts here from people who are against
private servers so you psot one with a donations link. Did it ever
occur to you that they would send your link to NCSoft? People are just
amazing.
Not just against private servers, but against them making money off of someone else's work. Not even I agree with that.
Ohhhhhh! I see your point now - the law is the law, and it can never be challenged because it is perfect in every way possible. It can never be improved.
Dude,
I was commenting on one point.
1. Torak was talking about two different things, he was upholding the law and not upholding NCsoft, yet you tried to paint him as confusing the two.
Risingshade,
I read the remainder of the thread and i agree with one of the points you made about how people should take a look at things and make them better, this is how the technology got started etc.
The problem is, the people owning the private servers should have took the L2 model, made it better, made their own game based on the lessons htey learned and then released it. The problem is, they broke the law, and I think it is a good law.
if I knew someone coudl take my idea, take it further, and shut me out using 95% of my work, there would be no incentive to invent anything, that's the problem. There needs to be an incentive to CREATE, that's the reason for copyright law and all this jazz, if you can't protect your investment, then why even bother.
I've played on private servers for diablo 2 (way better than blizzard's) but it was a free game anyway. But in the end, this law is for the best in my opinion.
Have a nice day, I hope NCsoft goes out of business though lol.
Cryomatrix
Cryomatrix
Good point.
But I still think that if this was carefully done, everything could be above the law, and it would be a win-win situation for everyone. The game makers could devote more time (and therefore money) to implementing bug fixes that worked on the priv servers instead of trying to find the bugs in the first place, which takes a lot more time. Priv servers would have access to a 100% free and legit copy of the server files. If this happened, I would be completely against any sort of piracy with that game. The idea is that the official game would be the most up-to-date server, which I think is a fair trade off.
I guess the biggest problem would be coordinating the fixes, and there's the huge question of how much input someone providing the free service would have to give.
I've been posting here hoping that maybe someday someone in the upper echelon of a gaming company tries these ideas out. That is the only way to prove or disprove them. This is a huge forum, and this thread has gotten many views. If my ideas were adopted, then it would radically change the gaming industry - private servers would encouraged, rather than scorned upon.
I will never support anyone trying to make money off of someone else's work.
I have based my arguements on two things:
1. A private server I play on. It was shut down by NCSoft because it too closely resembled the official servers, and because the admin had more things working than NCSoft did. I sympathize with someone like this - he is not trying to make a profit, but only to provide the game to his friends.
2. I was a GM for a private RO server running on eAthena. eAthena was, to the best of my knowledge, ruled legal by courts somewhere in Asia - either Singapoure, Indonesia, or South Korea, I forget the exact place. So now there are quite a few private RO servers running, and the makers of RO can do nothing about it. A lost opportunity imo.
---------------------------------------------
Hmmm... interesting. It seems L2X was running on leaked C1 files which had been upgraded, and that is why it got shut down. Don't take my word for this though... it's only what i'm hearing.
I see where you are coming from, ideally this may work, but companies in general do not do what is best for everyone, they make money. A good video game company makes the most money not the best game.
The thing about 100% free source-code and the gaming company having the most up-to-date server would fail. The reason is why would a gaming company do 99% of the work, to release it free and then have to compete with other people. Not only are they competing against other people, they are competing against a hell of a lot of people. Furthermore, the most up-to-date server may not be the most attractive server once again cutting into revenue.
Overall, the gaming company is doing 99% of the work, to release it as is, and then letting people carve niches with their own type of private server destroying the revenue.
It's like, NCsoft comes out with Lineage 2 version Legit, then 15 other people come out with lineage 2 version 1.0 to 15.0. The NCsoft is more up-to-date, but I like version 7.0, Tom likes version 3.0, Dick likes version 1.0, Harry likes version 9.0 and boom. NCsoft goes out of business, the crappy versions go out of business. Versions 1, 3 and 7 start charging a monthly fee and they get all the money and NCsoft is screwed beyond belief.
I've played on Private servers in Diablo 2 and they rock, only problem with private servers is lack of population and probability of having broken aspects. But in reality though, if i wanted to start a gaming company, I would never create a game from scratch, i'd buy an existing game and just make it better. It's easier to do that.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Ugh..reading the rationalizations by people here for running Private servers or illegally downloading music made my head hurt.
To all of you who support this. The taking of intellectual or physical property without paying for it is wrong. There is no gray here..its a black and white issue. No amount of reasoning on your part changes the fact that those who do it are criminals. (according to the laws of the US). Yes, that's right, I'm calling you criminals. Don't like it? Don't steal other peoples stuff.
And don't bring legal arguments in on this. You all know in your hearts you are stealing... you just have no problem with it because it suits your selfish nature. But if you were a person who actually created things for a living you'd understand more the error of your ways.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At least they had the sense to call them copyright violations and not stealing. If it was stealing, all the old laws on theft would apply, so please don't compare and act like you know something.
Its cool, I just found it sort of odd. That comment was made over 3 months ago and its like 20 pages back in my history. If you just take a casual look through the more recent history you can see three things.
To me games are a matter of personal taste. No one is better or worse then any other all things being equal. I enjoy L2, I also enjoy WoW and several other games. There are things I don't like about L2. There are things I don't like about WoW. There is something I like/dislike in every game...just like many other people.
I don't want to really argue about it with you but in the future try to be a bit more courteous to other posters and don't post stuff that can be inerpreted as an attack. (unless you mean to or you want to be viewed as a troll like other posters in this thread) In this case I warrented no such reaction. I can be an ass though if I need to be. I usually save that for the irrational L2 haters.
So all in all, I still think its a good thing the private server is gone. To bad its just that one. Hopefully as the legal process kicks in more and more will be shut down.
EDIT
And its not just L2 private servers I'm talking about. ALL private servers for whatever game.