Would you guys mind elaborating on what you hated bout WoW PvP? I hated the fact that someone that spent more time raiding could drop me w/o a second thought even though i had all my keys memorized and knew my class well. however, I did enjoy the 40vs40 and raiding towns/boats with my guild.
And yeah I look forward to WAR, conan, fury, etc you name it. But I have no illusions that any will take #1 spot. But they should all attract the mature MMOers
Originally posted by Lallante WoW is the most popular because it appeals to the crucial 13 - 17 age bracket. This is because its simple, easy and repetative. And has hot girl avatars.
Most other MMORPGs, being actually quite good, are too complex for the CS kiddies.
Popularity is practically a sign that the MMORPG is just more of the same bland crap.
I don't know why people keep saying WoW isn't as complex? WoW raid targets take good strats, teamwork, timing, etc.. just like eq or any other mmo that I played.
The combat is fast paced, group combat needs to know how to handle arggo because there is little crowd control.
Yes any class can solo same level mobs but that doesn't make it easy. Makes the game have another option for soloers. In a group you usually pull several mobs at a time.
most of the players that I run into are over 20...
If complex is having a tradeskill system that is long and painful, pvp that has little action long waits for mismatched classes, xp Penalties, broken ecomony, only farmers and ebayers can earn a decent amount of game coin IF ALL THAT IS BEING COMPLEX Then Yes WoW is not Complex. It's just straight out grouping, soloing, pvp, pve etc WITHOUT the hassle of what makes a game SUCK!
I find it interesting that many people in this thread say that WoW is aimed and caters to young teenagers, yet the average age of the people I encounter in game (for the last 2 years) is over 25, and I play regularly with some that are in their 40's and 50's. I suspect these people making this claim fall into the I hate WoW crowd.
The other thing I've found interesting is the repetitive grind comments. I haven't played Eve Online, but I have noticed that in all the other MMOs I have played they've all centered around a repetitive grind to level your character.
I also remember quite a few publications praising Blizzard for making the quest system intuitive and hailing it as a new thing, so I don't buy into the claims that WoW is a total copy of other MMOs (which lets face it, all MMOs just like all works of fiction and gamining are 99% copies of prior work with a very rare exception here and there).
WoW isn't perfect by any means, but I fail to see that so much of what is complained about here is just a WoW issue.
I find it interesting that many people in this thread say that WoW is aimed and caters to young teenagers, yet the average age of the people I encounter in game (for the last 2 years) is over 25, and I play regularly with some that are in their 40's and 50's. I suspect these people making this claim fall into the I hate WoW crowd.
Yeah I think people exaggerate that, but it is true to say there are a large number of teenagers that play WoW.
I also remember quite a few publications praising Blizzard for making the quest system intuitive and hailing it as a new thing, so I don't buy into the claims that WoW is a total copy of other MMOs (which lets face it, all MMOs just like all works of fiction and gamining are 99% copies of prior work with a very rare exception here and there).
The quest system wasn't a new thing, it had it in a few mmorpgs, but what was perhaps different about WoW was it was heavily quest-centred. And as to WoW being a copy, it is true to say WoW took many ideas from existing mmorpgs and incorporated them into WoW. However, calling it a EQ clone is inaccurate when both games differ considerably. WoW is based on EQ PvE/Raiding and DAoC-style battlegrounds but is not necessarily a clone especially when you consider many of the abilities are 'Blizzardy' abilities and 'Blizzardy' classes. Eg. WoW did take the idea of battlegrounds from WoW but the experience of both is radically different. And WoW did look at some of the core functions of EQ but the abilities for WoW are much more simplified and made 'Blizzardy'.
Originally posted by vajuras Would you guys mind elaborating on what you hated bout WoW PvP? I hated the fact that someone that spent more time raiding could drop me w/o a second thought even though i had all my keys memorized and knew my class well. however, I did enjoy the 40vs40 and raiding towns/boats with my guild. And yeah I look forward to WAR, conan, fury, etc you name it. But I have no illusions that any will take #1 spot. But they should all attract the mature MMOers
Look at Guild Wars and Eve and then compare them to WoW. Compare GW to WoW BG's and compare Eve to WoW world PvP. In both comparisons WoW comes out to be utterly predictable whereas the other two games are not.
In Eve I have no idea what ships some guy may have and i have no idea how he has loaded out his ship and I have no idea what his skills are. In GW a person or a team can literally come at you with anything in the game at any time.
In WoW not only do I know that some guy is a rogue and that all rogues share 90% of the same abilities. But I also know that they are all shunted into a very very small set of possible gear at endgame and that the ones that are of any concern are all essentially cloens of each other.
This is made even worse by that fact that you know they can't afford to significantly change even the little bit of variation that is afforded to them; talents. And that there is very little variation in talent builds anyway. usually there are only about 5 or so substantially different talents builds per class and those really aren't all that different.
Match play in WoW is completely stagnant. Not only are BG's repetitive but the actual teamplay is always exactly the same. Compared to GW GvG it is pathetic. In GvG at least you have novel strategies and and interesting team builds etc.
So not only does it suffer from all the problems you mentioned WoW PvP is inherently stagnant. Because the game is stagnant. In the end you are just rogue clone #1134345.
I liked AV 40vs40 it was fun. And AB before level 60 all the raid crap and farm teams was fun. But at the same time it was always pretty obvious that the game itself was one-dimensional. A hunter is a hunter, you know there is a pet, you know there will be big bow hits, you know he will frost trap. Whoopee. A GW Ranger you have no clue until you see him do his skill set. Could be a degen guy, could be bunny thumper, could be a trapper, could be a crip shot. All completely different. An Eve ship, you have some clue because of ship specialization. But you have no idea exactly what he is doing and a particular player could opt to come after you with any number of ships with any number of configurations. You shot up his mining ship with blasters? He comes at you with a megathron, is it a blaster close range ship or did he outfit for sniping? You better think fast.
If WOW PvP is so complex, challenging and so "well done", Blizzard would have hold several highly competitive world tournaments by now.. no?
Same for EvE Online and DAoC? I think there are some competitive BG games in WoW but it does rely on premade facing premade and that. The arenas will be along the lines of a ranking system, so that is close but sadly will still be gear dependant.
Originally posted by nomadian If WOW PvP is so complex, challenging and so "well done", Blizzard would have hold several highly competitive world tournaments by now.. no?
Same for EvE Online and DAoC? I think there are some competitive BG games in WoW but it does rely on premade facing premade and that. The arenas will be along the lines of a ranking system, so that is close but sadly will still be gear dependant.
Eve did have tournment actually. They even "televised" it. It didn't offer prize money liike GW has though.
Also Eve is mainly world PvP while GW is solely match play and so it is much easier for GW to set up tournaments. Since WoW has had match play for over a year, it would be fiarly easy to setup a tournment. Yet Eve created an entirely new and not normally used mechanism (separate torunemtn server) to hold the tournament.
However WoW does plan on having a ladder for the Arena system that will be in the BC epxnasion. But like I said above this will be rather boring in my opinion. The repitition of of GW GvG match fields is balanced by the variation in builds and multitude of possible tactics. WoW will be both repetitive and unvarying. People will tire of it very quickly and the ladder system will eventually become somewhat marginalized to pure grinders after the iniital novelty moves into monotony.
I am sure Blizzard will try to hold a tournament of some sort but meh.
My brother plays WoW non-stop, usually in our living room so I get to see him at it a lot. It doesnt take long to hit level 60 in WoW, which I like a lot, there is very little level grinding and I found the quest system pretty fun compared to most MMORPGs (although nothing compared to GW). I made it to level 60 in WoW myself before stopping playing, but I never really got into the level 60 stuff. Pretty much all that happened at level 60 when I used to play is ganking and PvP 'raids'. There werent all the high level instances like there are now, but I am glad, because I have seen my bro play those raid instances, and 99% of the time in them he is jsut sitting around doing nothing at all.
I think it was the instancing that hurt WoW the most. The addition of battlegrounds defeated any purpose of world PvP, and according to my brother and from what I have played of WoW, there is wayyyy less world PvP.
Right now my brother is trying to get Field Marshall (I think its called), so he just plays Battlegrounds over and over and over. Most of his time is spent waiting to get into a Battleground, but when he is in them they look pretty neat. Most nights he goes to get food or has something he needs to get done outside of WoW, so he has me join Battlegrounds for him and make his character jump every couple minutes. Apparently just being in Battlegrounds gets you the points needed to get uber-PvP-armor. I guess its neat that you can get good armor via PvP, but I have always disliked the importance of items in WoW. It seems like they keep adding new higher leveled gear to the game too, making hard work done by players useless as they all rush for the newest gear. It is pretty disgusting really.
Yeah, all in all, I am very glad that I played WoW directly after its release and that I quit when I hit level 60. I feel like I hit the good points of the game, and I did enjoy it, but I am very glad I did not stick with it, and that I am not spending my nights sitting around in pve raid parties or waiting for battlegrounds.
Either way, when it comes down to the OP's question, EVE and GW are both very unique and innoventive MMORPGs. WoW's quest system was somewhat unique when the game released (although it wasnt really unique, just more elaborate than most MMORPGs), but now that has been overshadowed as other MMORPGs are improving and WoW has been doing... I dunno. What have the updates been like for WoW? Do they just keep adding better gear and new instances to get that gear in? What else is new?
I just find it ironic that WoW is not listed #1 on the top rankings on this site. People scored it as 8.1. I suspect its just a bunch of haters that already have a favorite gimped MMO they play like City of Heroes or something other 100% instanced, repititive grind. Really, this makes the list seriously suspect in my eyes. I don't think it's accurate at all. WoW is #1 MMO out there. It's no where near perfect the end game can be sickening. But that journey to 1-59 was unparelled for me and I'm sure there's millions of others that feel the same.
So- is the rating system on this site rigged? Perhaps they should just list the top MMOs according to their market share. Cause really, that's what the #1 MMO is. The most popular.
WoW is a great game, fun graphics a myriad of quests and very easy for anyone who has never played an MMORPG before, it certainly deserves to be high on the list but definitely not the highest! Saying that if it is your first experience of a good MMORPG its understandable that you think it should.
For many people who have played 1st generation MMORPGs, WoW will lack in some very important areas. Strong loyalty to clans or guilds, building communities together, fighting and questing along side friends, not for the items or purple epics but for the challenge and benefit of whichever side your on. The enjoyment of building a unique character that develops over months or even years in a world that feels real. In WoW it is so easy to have multiple toons that eventually are just like everyone else, guilds fall apart because they cannot cater for different styles of game-play, everyone follows similar paths and there is very little need to "think!"
Hopefully soon we will have a game that brings back the real "heart" of these MMORPGs, and then maybe you can say if WoW really should be at the top of the list. I hope so because once you've played a true MMORPG, you will understand what is missing!
tell me this thread is joke for my sanititys sake? "OFG WOW IS TEH BEST MMO VOTE 10/10 NOOBZ!!!!!!!1!two!!"
serioulsy people who ahve played multiple mmo's are the only people legable to compare to other games, i used to play some rubbish games, i tired others, look back and think wow that was rubbish.
i am quite confused as wow has 6,000,000 + subscribers so the must be alot of fanbois there whilst as eve has only 100,000 players (i think may be out of date) (thats >2% of wow) yet is higher rated.
EQ2 player Ex - EVE Online addict played - SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms
majority of that 6mil subsribers have wow as their first ever mmorpg.... or i could be wrong... but who cares.. ive played numerous mmorpgs and i dont understand whats good with wow.. its crap totally
Originally posted by ammie Vajuras wrote; I just find it ironic that WoW is not listed #1 on the top rankings on this site. People scored it as 8.1. I suspect its just a bunch of haters that already have a favorite gimped MMO they play like City of Heroes or something other 100% instanced, repititive grind. Really, this makes the list seriously suspect in my eyes. I don't think it's accurate at all. WoW is #1 MMO out there. It's no where near perfect the end game can be sickening. But that journey to 1-59 was unparelled for me and I'm sure there's millions of others that feel the same. So- is the rating system on this site rigged? Perhaps they should just list the top MMOs according to their market share. Cause really, that's what the #1 MMO is. The most popular. WoW is a great game, fun graphics a myriad of quests and very easy for anyone who has never played an MMORPG before, it certainly deserves to be high on the list but definitely not the highest! Saying that if it is your first experience of a good MMORPG its understandable that you think it should. For many people who have played 1st generation MMORPGs, WoW will lack in some very important areas. Strong loyalty to clans or guilds, building communities together, fighting and questing along side friends, not for the items or purple epics but for the challenge and benefit of whichever side your on. The enjoyment of building a unique character that develops over months or even years in a world that feels real. In WoW it is so easy to have multiple toons that eventually are just like everyone else, guilds fall apart because they cannot cater for different styles of game-play, everyone follows similar paths and there is very little need to "think!" Hopefully soon we will have a game that brings back the real "heart" of these MMORPGs, and then maybe you can say if WoW really should be at the top of the list. I hope so because once you've played a true MMORPG, you will understand what is missing!
Nice post [edit] but either you dont see my sig or you're speaking in general terms
Originally posted by NatoB I totally agree that GW has the best team vs. team PvP and with nightfall it will have the best 1v1 PvP. My opinion.
Yeah Guild Wars has a well designed pvp system I agree its really strong. However, it lacks huge wars like you see in BF2142 (64 vs 64) and (48 vs 48). If GW would expand to 32v32 it would be near perfect, flawless. Fury promises 32v32 so I'm keeping my eyes on this
Originally posted by mentalmonkey serioulsy people who ahve played multiple mmo's are the only people legable to compare to other games, i used to play some rubbish games, i tired others, look back and think wow that was rubbish.
Saying it doesnt appeal to veteran MMORPGers is a lame excuse. I know plenty of veteran gamers that played MMORPGs / MUDs long before WoW released. Please give intelligent reasons why you dont like WoW and you feel other titles deserve to be in the Top 10 list twice. In my sig for instance I list multiple MMORPGs. I've played many all the way to cap more than once. [edit] I have a coworker here him and his wife played MUDs and even run their own. I have a former coworker that worked on Ultima Online and was addicted to WoW for a long time. The list simply goes on and on.
nice try but neither one of those are 1st gen mmorpg's. You , sir, are still an MMO NOOB
Originally posted by vajuras Originally posted by ammie Vajuras wrote;I just find it ironic that WoW is not listed #1 on the top rankings on this site. People scored it as 8.1. I suspect its just a bunch of haters that already have a favorite gimped MMO they play like City of Heroes or something other 100% instanced, repititive grind. Really, this makes the list seriously suspect in my eyes. I don't think it's accurate at all. WoW is #1 MMO out there. It's no where near perfect the end game can be sickening. But that journey to 1-59 was unparelled for me and I'm sure there's millions of others that feel the same.So- is the rating system on this site rigged? Perhaps they should just list the top MMOs according to their market share. Cause really, that's what the #1 MMO is. The most popular. WoW is a great game, fun graphics a myriad of quests and very easy for anyone who has never played an MMORPG before, it certainly deserves to be high on the list but definitely not the highest! Saying that if it is your first experience of a good MMORPG its understandable that you think it should. For many people who have played 1st generation MMORPGs, WoW will lack in some very important areas. Strong loyalty to clans or guilds, building communities together, fighting and questing along side friends, not for the items or purple epics but for the challenge and benefit of whichever side your on. The enjoyment of building a unique character that develops over months or even years in a world that feels real. In WoW it is so easy to have multiple toons that eventually are just like everyone else, guilds fall apart because they cannot cater for different styles of game-play, everyone follows similar paths and there is very little need to "think!" Hopefully soon we will have a game that brings back the real "heart" of these MMORPGs, and then maybe you can say if WoW really should be at the top of the list. I hope so because once you've played a true MMORPG, you will understand what is missing!
Nice post [edit] but either you dont see my sig or you're speaking in general terms
Life is a sexually transmitted disease and it is 100% fatal.
sinizter I dont care to list every MUD or MMO I ever played in my life. I try to only list the current MMORPGs in my sig. And like I said before I know Ultima Online programmer that adores WoW and have a MUD dungeon master here that loves it too
[edit] like I said before I played both CoH and CoV MMORPGs WoW was much better imo
[edit2] okay maybe you can consider me an MMO noob (altough I've always been a hardcore online RPG player since day 1). And I ahve played many MMOs to the level cap. Anyway, WoW wasnt my first MMO though. However I do know many MMO veterans thats been around since Meridian, ultima online, MUDs that all play WoW still. So, thats why I rather folks bring up other reasons rather make broad sweeping generalizations which is far from true
imo the reason for wow's huge succes is this is the one of few mmo's that doesent come out in beta stage. the first 20 level's are extreamly simple witch is exelent for new commers to mmo's and secondly it got popular.
me personaly i had a blast playing wow. 6 of my firends that rearly play games became semi hardcore wow players. that was the first time i had so many of my friends playing a game with me... and is the reason i stuck with wow for so long.
but when i think about it.. SWG pre cu i had way more fun with that game. than i ever did with wow... and that's probably becouse i hate looking like everyone else (composite armor did suck tho ) and having a narrow path to follow.
and to answear the op... imo i think sites like this one have more of the older mmo players.. players that have been playing mmo's for a long time and have seen/tested most of the games out there so they have a stronger oppinon about mmo's... rather than those who have never played anything but wow. so that's probably why wow is not rated #1
even tho its a great game no matter what anyone says.. i mean there is a reason for those 6-7 mil subcribers
Sorry for typos... dyslexic and just too damn lazy to proof read every post for 30 min (yes i am aware of spell check but it does not help that much
Nice post [edit] but either you dont see my sig or you're speaking in general terms
My apologies vajuras, I didn't notice your sig!
Like you I certainly enjoyed the first 59 levels of WoW. Perhaps it is a good thing that it is not top of the list, after all it already has so many members the devs would feel there was no reason for improvement. Not only that all other games would follow the same format.
No matter what the game is, it can only benefit us all if we try and leave some feedback amongst ourselves, so your discussion is good. The forums these days have become a lot more aggressive, mainly due to the "1st generation" gamers trying to avoid being swamped by the "WoW" style games. If profits are involved we don't stand a chance against the mass choice so debating the merits of past MMORPGs is our only option!
Originally posted by bradh531 Hardcore fans dont post, they just recruit friends instead. Too busy raiding, lol.
You can raid while you post on forums though, seeing how unless youre running the raid, you are usually just standing around waiting for this or that, or pretending to attack while you let everyone else do the work.
Comments
Would you guys mind elaborating on what you hated bout WoW PvP? I hated the fact that someone that spent more time raiding could drop me w/o a second thought even though i had all my keys memorized and knew my class well. however, I did enjoy the 40vs40 and raiding towns/boats with my guild.
And yeah I look forward to WAR, conan, fury, etc you name it. But I have no illusions that any will take #1 spot. But they should all attract the mature MMOers
I don't know why people keep saying WoW isn't as complex? WoW raid targets take good strats, teamwork, timing, etc.. just like eq or any other mmo that I played.
The combat is fast paced, group combat needs to know how to handle arggo because there is little crowd control.
Yes any class can solo same level mobs but that doesn't make it easy. Makes the game have another option for soloers. In a group you usually pull several mobs at a time.
most of the players that I run into are over 20...
If complex is having a tradeskill system that is long and painful, pvp that has little action long waits for mismatched classes, xp Penalties, broken ecomony, only farmers and ebayers can earn a decent amount of game coin IF ALL THAT IS BEING COMPLEX Then Yes WoW is not Complex. It's just straight out grouping, soloing, pvp, pve etc WITHOUT the hassle of what makes a game SUCK!
=D
The other thing I've found interesting is the repetitive grind comments. I haven't played Eve Online, but I have noticed that in all the other MMOs I have played they've all centered around a repetitive grind to level your character.
I also remember quite a few publications praising Blizzard for making the quest system intuitive and hailing it as a new thing, so I don't buy into the claims that WoW is a total copy of other MMOs (which lets face it, all MMOs just like all works of fiction and gamining are 99% copies of prior work with a very rare exception here and there).
WoW isn't perfect by any means, but I fail to see that so much of what is complained about here is just a WoW issue.
Look at Guild Wars and Eve and then compare them to WoW. Compare GW to WoW BG's and compare Eve to WoW world PvP. In both comparisons WoW comes out to be utterly predictable whereas the other two games are not.
In Eve I have no idea what ships some guy may have and i have no idea how he has loaded out his ship and I have no idea what his skills are. In GW a person or a team can literally come at you with anything in the game at any time.
In WoW not only do I know that some guy is a rogue and that all rogues share 90% of the same abilities. But I also know that they are all shunted into a very very small set of possible gear at endgame and that the ones that are of any concern are all essentially cloens of each other.
This is made even worse by that fact that you know they can't afford to significantly change even the little bit of variation that is afforded to them; talents. And that there is very little variation in talent builds anyway. usually there are only about 5 or so substantially different talents builds per class and those really aren't all that different.
Match play in WoW is completely stagnant. Not only are BG's repetitive but the actual teamplay is always exactly the same. Compared to GW GvG it is pathetic. In GvG at least you have novel strategies and and interesting team builds etc.
So not only does it suffer from all the problems you mentioned WoW PvP is inherently stagnant. Because the game is stagnant. In the end you are just rogue clone #1134345.
I liked AV 40vs40 it was fun. And AB before level 60 all the raid crap and farm teams was fun. But at the same time it was always pretty obvious that the game itself was one-dimensional. A hunter is a hunter, you know there is a pet, you know there will be big bow hits, you know he will frost trap. Whoopee. A GW Ranger you have no clue until you see him do his skill set. Could be a degen guy, could be bunny thumper, could be a trapper, could be a crip shot. All completely different. An Eve ship, you have some clue because of ship specialization. But you have no idea exactly what he is doing and a particular player could opt to come after you with any number of ships with any number of configurations. You shot up his mining ship with blasters? He comes at you with a megathron, is it a blaster close range ship or did he outfit for sniping? You better think fast.
GW has already hold several highly competitive world tournaments and regional tournaments.
If WOW PvP is so complex, challenging and so "well done", Blizzard would have hold several highly competitive world tournaments by now.. no?
Eve did have tournment actually. They even "televised" it. It didn't offer prize money liike GW has though.
Also Eve is mainly world PvP while GW is solely match play and so it is much easier for GW to set up tournaments. Since WoW has had match play for over a year, it would be fiarly easy to setup a tournment. Yet Eve created an entirely new and not normally used mechanism (separate torunemtn server) to hold the tournament.
However WoW does plan on having a ladder for the Arena system that will be in the BC epxnasion. But like I said above this will be rather boring in my opinion. The repitition of of GW GvG match fields is balanced by the variation in builds and multitude of possible tactics. WoW will be both repetitive and unvarying. People will tire of it very quickly and the ladder system will eventually become somewhat marginalized to pure grinders after the iniital novelty moves into monotony.
I am sure Blizzard will try to hold a tournament of some sort but meh.
My brother plays WoW non-stop, usually in our living room so I get to see him at it a lot. It doesnt take long to hit level 60 in WoW, which I like a lot, there is very little level grinding and I found the quest system pretty fun compared to most MMORPGs (although nothing compared to GW). I made it to level 60 in WoW myself before stopping playing, but I never really got into the level 60 stuff. Pretty much all that happened at level 60 when I used to play is ganking and PvP 'raids'. There werent all the high level instances like there are now, but I am glad, because I have seen my bro play those raid instances, and 99% of the time in them he is jsut sitting around doing nothing at all.
I think it was the instancing that hurt WoW the most. The addition of battlegrounds defeated any purpose of world PvP, and according to my brother and from what I have played of WoW, there is wayyyy less world PvP.
Right now my brother is trying to get Field Marshall (I think its called), so he just plays Battlegrounds over and over and over. Most of his time is spent waiting to get into a Battleground, but when he is in them they look pretty neat. Most nights he goes to get food or has something he needs to get done outside of WoW, so he has me join Battlegrounds for him and make his character jump every couple minutes. Apparently just being in Battlegrounds gets you the points needed to get uber-PvP-armor.
I guess its neat that you can get good armor via PvP, but I have always disliked the importance of items in WoW. It seems like they keep adding new higher leveled gear to the game too, making hard work done by players useless as they all rush for the newest gear. It is pretty disgusting really. 
Yeah, all in all, I am very glad that I played WoW directly after its release and that I quit when I hit level 60. I feel like I hit the good points of the game, and I did enjoy it, but I am very glad I did not stick with it, and that I am not spending my nights sitting around in pve raid parties or waiting for battlegrounds.
Either way, when it comes down to the OP's question, EVE and GW are both very unique and innoventive MMORPGs. WoW's quest system was somewhat unique when the game released (although it wasnt really unique, just more elaborate than most MMORPGs), but now that has been overshadowed as other MMORPGs are improving and WoW has been doing... I dunno. What have the updates been like for WoW? Do they just keep adding better gear and new instances to get that gear in? What else is new?
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Vajuras wrote;
I just find it ironic that WoW is not listed #1 on the top rankings on this site. People scored it as 8.1. I suspect its just a bunch of haters that already have a favorite gimped MMO they play like City of Heroes or something other 100% instanced, repititive grind. Really, this makes the list seriously suspect in my eyes. I don't think it's accurate at all. WoW is #1 MMO out there. It's no where near perfect the end game can be sickening. But that journey to 1-59 was unparelled for me and I'm sure there's millions of others that feel the same.
So- is the rating system on this site rigged? Perhaps they should just list the top MMOs according to their market share. Cause really, that's what the #1 MMO is. The most popular.
WoW is a great game, fun graphics a myriad of quests and very easy for anyone who has never played an MMORPG before, it certainly deserves to be high on the list but definitely not the highest! Saying that if it is your first experience of a good MMORPG its understandable that you think it should.
For many people who have played 1st generation MMORPGs, WoW will lack in some very important areas. Strong loyalty to clans or guilds, building communities together, fighting and questing along side friends, not for the items or purple epics but for the challenge and benefit of whichever side your on. The enjoyment of building a unique character that develops over months or even years in a world that feels real. In WoW it is so easy to have multiple toons that eventually are just like everyone else, guilds fall apart because they cannot cater for different styles of game-play, everyone follows similar paths and there is very little need to "think!"
Hopefully soon we will have a game that brings back the real "heart" of these MMORPGs, and then maybe you can say if WoW really should be at the top of the list. I hope so because once you've played a true MMORPG, you will understand what is missing!
I totally agree that GW has the best team vs. team PvP and with nightfall it will have the best 1v1 PvP.
My opinion.
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Whatever
Nevermind
tell me this thread is joke for my sanititys sake? "OFG WOW IS TEH BEST MMO VOTE 10/10 NOOBZ!!!!!!!1!two!!"
serioulsy people who ahve played multiple mmo's are the only people legable to compare to other games, i used to play some rubbish games, i tired others, look back and think wow that was rubbish.
i am quite confused as wow has 6,000,000 + subscribers so the must be alot of fanbois there whilst as eve has only 100,000 players (i think may be out of date) (thats >2% of wow) yet is higher rated.
EQ2 player
Ex - EVE Online addict
played -
SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms
i~ku~ra
Saying it doesnt appeal to veteran MMORPGers is a lame excuse. I know plenty of veteran gamers that played MMORPGs / MUDs long before WoW released. Please give intelligent reasons why you dont like WoW and you feel other titles deserve to be in the Top 10 list twice. In my sig for instance I list multiple MMORPGs. I've played many all the way to cap more than once. [edit] I have a coworker here him and his wife played MUDs and even run their own. I have a former coworker that worked on Ultima Online and was addicted to WoW for a long time. The list simply goes on and on.
Life is a sexually transmitted disease and it is 100% fatal.
Best post in this thread I'm satisfied with this anwser. All the really hardcore WoW users I know never have time for forums or other games
sinizter I dont care to list every MUD or MMO I ever played in my life. I try to only list the current MMORPGs in my sig. And like I said before I know Ultima Online programmer that adores WoW and have a MUD dungeon master here that loves it too
[edit] like I said before I played both CoH and CoV MMORPGs WoW was much better imo
[edit2] okay maybe you can consider me an MMO noob (altough I've always been a hardcore online RPG player since day 1). And I ahve played many MMOs to the level cap. Anyway, WoW wasnt my first MMO though. However I do know many MMO veterans thats been around since Meridian, ultima online, MUDs that all play WoW still. So, thats why I rather folks bring up other reasons rather make broad sweeping generalizations which is far from true
Best post in this thread I'm satisfied with this anwser. All the really hardcore WoW users I know never have time for forums or other games
Agreed. I got bored because I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm just waiting for the expansion.
me personaly i had a blast playing wow. 6 of my firends that rearly play games became semi hardcore wow players.
that was the first time i had so many of my friends playing a game with me... and is the reason i stuck with wow for so long.
but when i think about it.. SWG pre cu i had way more fun with that game. than i ever did with wow... and that's probably becouse i hate looking like everyone else (composite armor did suck tho
and to answear the op... imo i think sites like this one have more of the older mmo players.. players that have been playing mmo's for a long time and have seen/tested most of the games out there so they have a stronger oppinon about mmo's... rather than those who have never played anything but wow. so that's probably why wow is not rated #1
even tho its a great game no matter what anyone says.. i mean there is a reason for those 6-7 mil subcribers
Sorry for typos... dyslexic and just too damn lazy to proof read every post for 30 min
(yes i am aware of spell check but it does not help that much
Hardcore fans dont post, they just recruit friends instead. Too busy raiding, lol.
Vajuras posted;
Nice post [edit] but either you dont see my sig or you're speaking in general terms
My apologies vajuras, I didn't notice your sig!
Like you I certainly enjoyed the first 59 levels of WoW. Perhaps it is a good thing that it is not top of the list, after all it already has so many members the devs would feel there was no reason for improvement. Not only that all other games would follow the same format.
No matter what the game is, it can only benefit us all if we try and leave some feedback amongst ourselves, so your discussion is good. The forums these days have become a lot more aggressive, mainly due to the "1st generation" gamers trying to avoid being swamped by the "WoW" style games. If profits are involved we don't stand a chance against the mass choice so debating the merits of past MMORPGs is our only option!
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.