Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
BioWare News Here!!! KOTOR III?
Tiller
Member LegendaryPosts: 11,489
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
---------------------------------------------------
BioWare Austin Talks About Upcoming MMO
Being on South Park, building the right end game for an MMO and more.
by Shawn Elliott, 11/27/2006
9 of 9 users recommend this story.
As you've likely heard, the December 2006 issue of Games for Windows magazine (in stores now) features a massive cover story on BioWare's upcoming RPG Dragon Age (check out some first details on the game here). But as part of the cover story, the guys at GFW also spoke with BioWare's Austin studio to get the scoop on its upcoming MMORPG. While the team isn't ready to talk details or world settings, they did go into a lot of the philosophy behind the game. As one of the best RPG developers in the business, the sheer prospect of an MMORPG from the studio is exciting, so read on for some intriguing comments.
Games for Windows: The Official Magazine: How long has your new MMORPG been in development?
Gordon Walton, co-studio director, BioWare Austin: We announced the game around March, but we'd really started on it in the beginning of December 2005.
James Ohlen, creative director, BioWare Austin: We've got a lot designed -- we've got the GDD [game design document] done, we've finished more than three quarters of the detail design documents. We've got a couple prototypes up.
We've licensed [Simultronics'] HeroEngine. It's a very good engine, and we're very impressed with it so far.
And we can talk about the high-level goals: We basically want to bring what BioWare's famous for to the online space, and one of the things BioWare's famous for is storytelling ... and it's something that pretty well doesn't exist in the online space right now. Most "storytelling" in MMORPGs is just FedEx quests -- you know, you have to go get some eggs -- and it's presented in a format that's just a bunch of text thrown at you in paragraph for ... and that's not so exciting. We want to bring a level of storytelling that's equal to the single-player box games that BioWare has done. I think we can do that. One of the big challenges will be making our storytelling work in an environment that has multiple players.
GFW: It seems that one of the big challenges in a big multiplayer universe is that you can't really have the player shape the world like you can in a single-player game ... .
JO: Here's the thing -- you can't have a story that involves saving the world from the dark lord Sauron -- not that we're making a Lord of the Rings game, but I'll use LOTR as a good example. You can't stop the world from being destroyed by [Sauron], but you can do a lot of things that are personal to your character. You change how your character evolves over the game, the player's personal story -- and a player's personal story can be quite epic. It can involve parts of the world that, while they're epic, exciting, and interesting, don't change the landscape of the entire world for everyone else.
Smaug [from The Hobbit] is a good example. You can have a personal quest to kill an ancient red dragon; you can have a story that goes all the way through, and you can meet all these interesting characters, and eventually you end up killing the ancient red dragon. Other characters in the online world will know you killed a red dragon, but you haven't changed the world for them. And they can still -- especially when you use things like instances -- go on a quest that involves killing an ancient huge red dragon. We can change the player's personal story, and that gives players the sense they're having an impact on the game world.
Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: One thing we don't want to do is NPC Pez dispensers, as I call them -- go over there, dispense a quest, and then go "vacuum-clean" a zone. We want to make sure you listen to NPCs, because choices matter. And that's really important.
JO: There are lots of quests in a classic BioWare game that would work in an online world. You'd be surprised how few wouldn't.
GFW: One of the big problems with MMO gameplay is repeating the same content, or same instance if you're specifically talking about WoW, over and over again ... .
JO: That's something we don't want to encourage. We want to encourage players to continue to make progress in their story, to do new quests, consume new content, constantly move forward. The grind is not attractive in any way. Going and killing the same dragon over and over again is not something I want to do. There are lots of different ways to encourage players to move forward. Simply putting more weight on storytelling experience points is a good way to do that. In WOW, you get XP when you finish a quest, but the weighting on that is pretty low; there's not much benefit to doing that over finding the perfect monster to grind and kill. If those quest experience points were a little higher, it would make a lot more sense to go along with the story. Now, that's a very mechanical way to ensure players go along with your story -- the other way is to make sure your story is good, that the presentation is exciting, it's personal to the player, that the player has a lot of motivation to move forward in their story. That's not to say that experience and treasure aren't still important, though.
GFW: Are there things in the other MMOs -- whether yours or another developer's -- that you've worked on that you can see working here? Any "lessons learned"?
RV: I think the big thing is that making a quality polished product with good gameplay is key. WoW proved that. WoW didn't really innovate all that much -- it just did a very good job of polishing what was out there. [Blizzard] took the best and put it in their game. But we want to develop an experience that's a BioWare experience first and foremost. And for that, it's very important to have directed content ... especially if you want to get to a mainstream audience.
JO: And by directed, we don't mean linear -- we mean that you know where you have to go to have fun.
GFW: How many of your key staffers migrated from SOE [which also has a studio in Austin]?
GW: I don't know that we have a count. Some from SOE, some from BioWare Edmonton, some from other companies completely. It's not like we had to go knocking. Experienced people want to work on a product that can be successful.
GFW: Can you talk about where the game takes place? Is it fantasy? Sci-fi?
JO: We can't talk about the setting of the game yet.
RV: The key points that we're gonna do that no one's done before in an MMOG are bring story, character, and emotion to it. Decisions matter, and NPCs aren't pez dispensers, and you're not in a grind. You're really compelled to get on and play what's happening to day ... kind of like watching a series like Lost on TV ... putting page-turning in an MMO. It's going to be extremely challenging thing to do, believe me.
GFW: Another BioWare strength, aside from story, is character customization. For lots of reasons, most MMORPGs lock you into classes without a ton of flexibility, which conflicts with customization. What's your philosophy?
RV: It's really important to have roles in an MMORPG. If you understand your role in the world, and others understand your role in the world with you, then you can get group dynamics and social behavior. [Developers] can set up interdependencies, which promote social dynamics in a game. If you don't have that, then you end up with loners ... and the world breaks down a little bit. Now, you'll be able to solo if you like in our game, that's for sure -- it's one thing that WoW proved can work. But it'll be a choice whether or not you want to group or not. You run into problems when people feel they're forced to group up or raid to get somewhere in the game.
JO: And while roles are important for gameplay, the visual aspect of your character is an area where we can let player differentiate themselves. We are gonna have a good selection of visual customization. We're probably gonna have more visual customization than you've seen in a BioWare game before.
GFW: Repetition of the same instances and raid dungeons is a huge part on what constitutes "end-game content" when you reach a level cap in an MMO. What's your plan for end-game content?
JO: We have big plans for end-game content that we can't talk about because it's a major part of our design. We think it's a very important aspect of the game, and we don't want players to be stuck grinding through the same content over and over again -- I know when I hit level 60 in WoW, I pretty much quit. So whatever end-game model we have, it's not going to be that.
GFW: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing?
RV: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience.
JO: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well.
GW: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge.
GFW: How big is your writing team? Can you explain your writing process?
JO: One of the things we want to do is create more story content than in any other BioWare game before, and we started a writing team earlier than in any other BioWare project -- more than twice as big, nine total, and they'll be on the project twice as long. The reason is that the world is huge and has tons of paths and options.
GFW: How do you select your writers?
JO: It seems you can't get a writer from the same place twice -- we've got one from Hollywood, one straight out of school, one who was a designer and programmer before he decided he wanted to be a writer. They send submissions created in the Neverwinter Nights toolset, and cull out the ones we don't like. Senior writers give feedback to the ones that make the initial cut, and the potential writers make changes and turn it back in. It's some of the harshest testing for any position at BioWare, really.
GFW: What are you all playing right now?
JO: I'm playing in a World of WarCraft group with a few of the writers. We're in a Horde group.
RV: WoW, and I've started playing a bit of Eve Online. It's extremely ... niche.
GW: I still play Ultima Online every month, and play World of WarCraft right now. But mostly console games.
GFW: World of WarCraft all around. What's that game doing best right now? What keeps you playing?
RV: It's a very polished experience.
GW: It's got the best interface of any MMO by a longshot. It has craploads of content. You're always being directed from quest to quest.
GFW: Are you worried about taking on the World of WarCraft monster?
GW: There hasn't really been anything that's been built to beat it yet -- but we just want to be competitive. We're not looking to kill WOW. Will some people who play WOW play our game? Of course. But we'd be better off if we got new customers, too. It's not a zero-sum game out there.
JO: Aside from BioWare, Blizzard is the company I respect the most -- and yes, WOW is an amazing game. But there's still so much room for growth, and WOW still has tons of room for improvement. It's not a genre that's going to slow down any time soon. MMORPGs are going to be taking huge steps in so many place I can see.
GFW: What's the biggest improvement you want to see happen in MMOs?
JO: I'm a huge story guy. I want to play in a world where I feel like I'm reading a good book, where I feel like I'm there. I have lots of fun with World of WarCraft, but it's not because of the story or characters. So if we made characters you could care about and believe in ... that would be huge.
GFW: So when will we be playing the "BioWare MMORPG"?
GW: Anything worth doing well is worth taking the time. It's hard to predict when it'll be right. It's important for use to wait and make sure it's right. That's gonna take some time. Everyone who's tried to cram one into a ship date has had issues -- been there and done that a couple times.
JO: We're gonna make the best game we can.
RV: "When it's ready."
GW: The fan base of BioWare would love to see a Bioware MMO. And this was part of the genesis of this -- it's the natural progression for an RPG company to try this medium. We're happy to work with world-class game designers who aren't just copying what's come before. We have a really good studio. We probably have the most experienced team in the business, as far as building MMORPGs. We're excited about we're doing. The moment we talk about what we're going, expectations fly through the roof -- then you have to be the second coming. It's very difficult to live up to expectations; they keep escalating while you're trying to finish what you started.
GFW: And what are your personal goals in all this?
GW: I just want to entertain a lot of people. We are story-telling creatures. Story really helps make entertainment experiences more accessible.
RV: I just want to be on South Park.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KOTOR sequel readies itself to battle WoW
Posted Nov 28, 2006 at 07:48AM by Ryan A. Listed in: News, Star Wars KOTOR Tags: Star Wars, BioWare
On one hand, you have the 7.5 million strong WoW fan base. On the other, take the Star Wars fanatics and lure them into playing MMORPG. What happens next? Simple, war of the titans! But developer BioWare is not really gunning for that. If they had their way, there will be no mention whatsoever of their WIP title until they are quite happy with it."There hasn't really been anything that's been built to beat it WoW yet. But we just want to be competitive. Will some people who play WoW play our game? Of course. But we'd be better off if we got new customers, too. It's not a zero-sum game out there," explains Gordon Walton, co-studio director for the upcoming MMO Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III.
"The key points we're gonna do that no one's done before in an MMOG are bring story, character and emotion to it," shares other co-director Rich Vogel. Furthermore, most guys at BioWare, if not all, agree that most MMO of today do not offer creative and exciting quests. They have even coined a term for them: FedEx Quests (Get this hullabaloo, deliver in Thingamagoop, etc).
Aside from that, BioWare wouldn't share any specific detail any longer save for one. "We don't want players to be stuck grinding through the same content over and over again. We want to encourage players to continue to make progress in their story, to do new quests, consume new content, constantly move forward," Creative Director James Ohlen hinted.
Comments
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
The fact still remains that this article has nothing what-so-ever to do with SWG and should be locked because it's off topic, just like your other thread was.
Yeah you guys have all the "secret inside info" too bad none of it has any truth to it.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
GFW: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing?
RV: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But
is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment
experience.
JO: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are
believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world.
Those two things don't go together well.
GW: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge."
Hehe, I guees Our dream that Bioware Would bring something SWG like, is pretty much dead, By the amount of "WOW like comments", I see another Allmost WOW Clone, But better to come out.
BioWare rules! Everytime I read them I fall in love, again!
All praise to the Design Overlord!
Hopefully it will be FR, GH or Mystara, but ANYTHING they do is going to be awesome!
They refer to WoW, they don't say it will be a clone. See:
SWG stand here ----- WoW stand here ---- BioWare new MMO stand here
So, if you want the peoples to understand, you have to use WoW in the example to lean them in the right direction. I am pretty sure it will be raid-free and able to entertain myself, unlike in WoW!
Raid-free or die!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
EnB Exiles
GuardiansOfOrion.com
GFW: Are there things in the other MMOs -- whether yours or another developer's -- that you've worked on that you can see working here? Any "lessons learned"?
Ahahahahaha.
Ahahahahhaha.
In your face SOE!
And this thing smells heavily of instancing and chapters. GW-like.
This article definetly put me off on this project.
NGE Refugee.
the big secret he-man site. I've also read a hundred other rumors that
aren't true.
The fact still remains that this article has nothing
what-so-ever to do with SWG and should be locked because it's off
topic, just like your other thread was.
Yeah you guys have all the "secret inside info" too bad none of it has any truth to it.
Me-OW!
Try going commando.. they won't bunch up so much.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
The fact still remains that this article has nothing what-so-ever to do with SWG and should be locked because it's off topic, just like your other thread was.
Yeah you guys have all the "secret inside info" too bad none of it has any truth to it.
Me-OW!
Try going commando.. they won't bunch up so much.
I will just for you..
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
the big secret he-man site. I've also read a hundred other rumors that
aren't true.
The fact still remains that this article has nothing
what-so-ever to do with SWG and should be locked because it's off
topic, just like your other thread was.
Yeah you guys have all the "secret inside info" too bad none of it has any truth to it.
Me-OW!
Try going commando.. they won't bunch up so much.
I will just for you..
Don't tease me... you know you don't mean it.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
I think people need to realize any new MMORPG developed during this time is going to involve reference to WoW. That dosen't necassarily equate to WoW clone though. More MMORPG players are familiar with WoW then any other mmorpg. WoW is the eight hundred pound gorilla at the party surrounded by midgets. No discussion about the party can ignore the gorillas impact for very long.
During any discussion a common frame of reference is a valid tool. That gives you something to compare against, and more importantly a way to highlight differences. Were they to have talked up a lesser known MMORPG whcih fewer people would have had experience with then they would have suffered a level of disconnect with their audience.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
um if you read more the details you will see that, yes, they like wow, but they also see the flaws of the game. as e.g. only repetitive raid content which they do not want to have in their game. one of the guys said he quit after reaching lv60 because he was bored.
look at it as a field study - for mmo programmers to "learn", they will have to check out the successes (and failures) on the market.
If it BioWare isn't making a Star Wars based MMO (my guess would be KotOR), then why all the secrecy? If it were any other intellectual property, why wait to announce the project details? It makes no sense.
Yet if it were KotOR Online, it would make sense for BioWare to hold off announcing their plans in order for SOE to maximize profits from SWG. If people found out that another Star Wars MMO was in the works, they might not waste time with SWG:NGE. My guess then would be that BioWare would wait until after the Christmas shopping season to spring the news.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Yawn...
Sounds like another class-level-holy trinity clone with some epic instanced quests.
Boooooooring....
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
John Smedley beat up my grandmother.
How about guildwars? Created by former lead designer of WoW, and some other high-profile developers of WoW? A game that goes against everything WoW is. It goes so far, that it doesn't even try to be MMORPG. If the game used subscription model, it would exceed Lineage 2 in earnings.
Games that will reference WoW will fail. Hard and fast. Hello: Vanguard - DoA. Hello: Ryzom - how's bancrupcy and donations going? Hello: DnL - both subscribers having fun? Hello: EQ and EQ2. Bleeding decreased yet? No?
Copy WoW and die.
And also don't expect SWG.
Anything but SWG.
Expect completely new directions, perhaps complete removal of levels and experience. Expect linearly organized content Kotor style. Expect heavy use of instancing and quest/mission driven unlocks. Expect extremly high class typization without grind imposing gimped classes. Expect extreme customizability such as changing your complete character without a single grinding aspect. Expect playing alone with others. Expect purchasable content, organized in episodes/chapters.
Copy WoW and die.
Have you ever played Ryzom? It is nothing like WoW, it's a skilled based sandbox game.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Copy WoW and die.
Have you ever played Ryzom? It is nothing like WoW, it's a skilled based sandbox game.
Yea...
It's fantasy with fantasy mobs and spells and such.
Eve is not-wow. Auto-assault is not-wow. Planteside is not-wow.
If you have a toolbar, spells and mobs scattered around the world that give xp, then it's WoW. Or better yet, whatever you're trying to do, WoW does it better. And if you happen to fall in that bucket, and don't have levels, then your game is broken in the first place.
*This* is the true impact of WoW.
I miss the Simulation side of SWG... that is where it stood out I think.
Then of course the NGE hit and made it into a Arcade game for 12 year olds.... kinda sucks.
On the flipside EVERYONE CAN BE A UBER JEBI!!!
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1