Its all supposition really. Mind you whether its real or not is realtively unimportant. Most of us can except that we think we feel and we except that the other things around us do to. The fact theres a aggreance of whats going on is enough. We use these aggreances to feel and enjoy and supposedly progress. Supposition is enough for me We will just keep supposing that things are happening. We will keep aggreeing. Eventually we will be able to change the relations of these suppositions. In the end there will always be people saying hey it mite not be real. Doesnt really matter does it?
Originally posted by Slickinfinit All modern day theoretical physics allows for time travel and infact its already happend just not like how you think it would. Time,space and gravity all interact with each other and they prepetuate the flow at which we currently observe spacetime. Change the formula that we are observing by altering the gravitaional field and you would make the flow of time differant then we currently experience, time is the 4th dimension of our universe according to alot of physics theories. How has it already happend? Well look at astronauts, they are working in a field of gravity that is differant then what we experience so according to general relativity their observance of spacetime is differant than ours on the planet. From what I read a few astronauts that have been in space for long periods of time actualy go forward in time by a matter of 30-50 seconds but the basic principal says that is you change the surrounding equation of gravity/space/mass then time will flow at a differant rate.
im seriously curious about this subject. can you point me to scientific papers or docs or something online, that i can study up on this. this is fasciating. ive never heard that before. and as far as what i wrote, thats just me own opinion. i dont have any facts to support it. however, if we find out that im right, you all are going to owe me an apology, lol.
i still believe what i wrote, and the fact that we have never met any time travelers yet seems to support that. i believe like some other guy wrote in this thread, that if it were possible. we would have already experienced something like it. if in 100 years, 200 years, they were to develop it, theres no doubt in me mind that they would have come back here and changed me post, lol. you thought i was going to say 9/11, eh? lol.
anyway, i really wanna read up on this 4th dimension thing you were talking about. i love science.
Try to relate to someone in the future though. Although I dont think traveling back in time is probable if you could perhaps certain events which seem bad to us now precipitate evens so good they cant stop the bad ones. Remember if you change one bad thing it could destroy ten good things that occured because of it. We at the present only really relate to the present consequences of actions. People can come to terms with what happend. Eventually 100 to 200 years from now perhaps people just dont care and are basking in there present or are to afraid to go back and make it even worse. Hard to relate to a future that hasnt even happend yet.
Originally posted by PlanoMM Originally posted by Slickinfinit All modern day theoretical physics allows for time travel and infact its already happend just not like how you think it would. Time,space and gravity all interact with each other and they prepetuate the flow at which we currently observe spacetime. Change the formula that we are observing by altering the gravitaional field and you would make the flow of time differant then we currently experience, time is the 4th dimension of our universe according to alot of physics theories. How has it already happend? Well look at astronauts, they are working in a field of gravity that is differant then what we experience so according to general relativity their observance of spacetime is differant than ours on the planet. From what I read a few astronauts that have been in space for long periods of time actualy go forward in time by a matter of 30-50 seconds but the basic principal says that is you change the surrounding equation of gravity/space/mass then time will flow at a differant rate.
im seriously curious about this subject. can you point me to scientific papers or docs or something online, that i can study up on this. this is fasciating. ive never heard that before. and as far as what i wrote, thats just me own opinion. i dont have any facts to support it. however, if we find out that im right, you all are going to owe me an apology, lol.
i still believe what i wrote, and the fact that we have never met any time travelers yet seems to support that. i believe like some other guy wrote in this thread, that if it were possible. we would have already experienced something like it. if in 100 years, 200 years, they were to develop it, theres no doubt in me mind that they would have come back here and changed me post, lol. you thought i was going to say 9/11, eh? lol.
anyway, i really wanna read up on this 4th dimension thing you were talking about. i love science.
When you fly very long distances you can actually go forward or backward in time. If you fly west to east you go forward in time but its only by a second or less. And if you go east to west you go back in time by a second or less. But you have to fly very long distances and in a jet liner. Like Bangkok to LAX or Berlin to New York.
There is actually a theory if you can stay in a plane flying east to west continuously long enough you could actually land at the same airport you took off from as your plane was taking off. But they cant really test that theory because it would cost way too much and fuel would be a major problem because everytime you slow to fuel up in midair you lose some of the time you jumped. Lastly you would have to stay in the air for up to a year your time.
It has actually been surmised that this extremely minor timeshift is one of the many factors that leads to jetlag. But I dont know about that. I only experiance jetlag flying from west to east and if I only drink water (no coffee, soda, or juice) and keep covered up I dont experiance jetlag at all.
As for whether or not time travel will be possible I dont know. Anything is possible. And maybe we are being visited all the time. But it could be that they can only watch and not interact. Like viewing a movie. I would love that. Plano and I could then bet $1 and go see who is right. heh
COPELAND!! Gosh darn it! Get in here and give a verbal beating to Kai!!! For the sake of all thats good!
Kai, if you fly from LAX to say.. Manila. If you left LAX at say Monday 1pm, you get in manila 34 hours later. So youd arrive tuesday 11pm pst. In manila it would be Wed. 2am. Not because you traveled fowards in time. Rather because your on the bloody other side of the world! THe other person isnt experiencing things several hours earlier. There experiences it at the same exact moment! Just the clock shows time diffrently because theyre basing there clock off the shadow and light of the sun! When It rises and falls.
Now the person on the plane would be a milisecond younger the rest of the world because to him time traveled slower the entire trip on the plane because of speed. Objects moving faster then there relative surroundings have slightly less temporal connectivity to there surrounding matter. Youd have to travel VERY fast to see any noticeable diffrence. Satellites moving 74,000 mph do notice it enough that there instruments have to take it into account.
Originally posted by Techleo COPELAND!! Gosh darn it! Get in here and give a verbal beating to Kai!!! For the sake of all thats good!
Kai, if you fly from LAX to say.. Manila. If you left LAX at say Monday 1pm, you get in manila 34 hours later. So youd arrive tuesday 11pm pst. In manila it would be Wed. 2am. Not because you traveled fowards in time. Rather because your on the bloody other side of the world! THe other person isnt experiencing things several hours earlier. There experiences it at the same exact moment! Just the clock shows time diffrently because theyre basing there clock off the shadow and light of the sun! When It rises and falls.
Now the person on the plane would be a milisecond younger the rest of the world because to him time traveled slower the entire trip on the plane because of speed. Objects moving faster then there relative surroundings have slightly less temporal connectivity to there surrounding matter. Youd have to travel VERY fast to see any noticeable diffrence. Satellites moving 74,000 mph do notice it enough that there instruments have to take it into account.
I know about time changes when flying to other countries. Manila is 14 hours ahead of me at the moment based on the clock. So 2:38PM here is 4:38AM there. Incidently I have been to Manila 8 times since '95.
And it wouldnt take 34 bloody hours to get to manila. From LAX it takes about 14 hours. 16 if you stop in Hawaii for fuel.
If you fly west to east your a millisecond older and if your flying east to west your a millisecond younger so some such thing. I wish I had that article on it that I found at San Fransico's airport. But I left it on the plane. It was a real ripping read. And the theory sounded cool too. If you can stay flying 24/7 for one year you could "theoritically" land at the same airport at the sametime you left. Its just a theory and one that cant ever be proven but its cool.
When you fly very long distances you can actually go forward or backward in time. If you fly west to east you go forward in time but its only by a second or less. And if you go east to west you go back in time by a second or less. But you have to fly very long distances and in a jet liner. Like Bangkok to LAX or Berlin to New York.
There is actually a theory if you can stay in a plane flying east to west continuously long enough you could actually land at the same airport you took off from as your plane was taking off. But they cant really test that theory because it would cost way too much and fuel would be a major problem because everytime you slow to fuel up in midair you lose some of the time you jumped. Lastly you would have to stay in the air for up to a year your time.
It has actually been surmised that this extremely minor timeshift is one of the many factors that leads to jetlag. But I dont know about that. I only experiance jetlag flying from west to east and if I only drink water (no coffee, soda, or juice) and keep covered up I dont experiance jetlag at all.
As for whether or not time travel will be possible I dont know. Anything is possible. And maybe we are being visited all the time. But it could be that they can only watch and not interact. Like viewing a movie. I would love that. Plano and I could then bet $1 and go see who is right. heh
Kai
Time dilation at orbital velocities is on the order of 1/1000 of a second over the course of weeks. I.E. if you have a clock that very accurately measure time over the period of weeks moving 20 thousand miles per hour it will end up ~ 1 millisecond behind a clock that didnt move.
Im not even sure the time dilation effect from a jet aircraft is large enough to measure. The direction of travel relative to the earths rotation would not matter because time dilation effects are always relative to some other frame of reference. I.E. the only way any motion can be described is relative to some other object, and the reference we normally use is the earths surface. I.E. the passage of time we consider "normal" is for an object sitting stationary wrt the earths surface.
For more interesting info on how the earths rotation and revolution fail to impact time and motion calculations wiki the MichelsonMorley experiment.
*Hugs Lomiller* Thank you for that wonderful post! You hit it exactly on the nose . Now if you are traveling the speed of light that dialation effect is FAR more noticeable. If every 20,000 miles per hour is 1/1000th a second then every 20 million miles per hour is a second slower. So at the speed of light youd be traveling about 50 seconds slower. So in realtive terms about 10 seconds would pass on the object for every minute on earth. If you traveled around earth for 10 months youd feel one month and the rest 10 months. Thats really REALLY rough calculations and just off the top of my head hehe. No paper even Wouldnt be surprised if Im off by a power of 10 lol.
I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I haven't given alot of time to the theory of time travel i just like theoretical physics. It's a hobby much like games. Theoretical physics is the science of dreamers. It's plausible but not proven.In essence anything is possible.
There was a great PBS show that went into detail about "String Theory" that if you did not have a chance to check out, it might be worth your time. It involves a couple things, mainly multiple dimensions...but it lends itself well to the "Anything is possible" arguement. I think they did an example where if you tried to walk through a wall enough times (some crazy ass number), eventually you would be able to do it. It might not have been the "String Theory" show where I heard that, as I also enjoy a slight dabbling into theoretical physics.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Originally posted by kaibigan34 When you fly very long distances you can actually go forward or backward in time. If you fly west to east you go forward in time but its only by a second or less. And if you go east to west you go back in time by a second or less. But you have to fly very long distances and in a jet liner. Like Bangkok to LAX or Berlin to New York.
There is actually a theory if you can stay in a plane flying east to west continuously long enough you could actually land at the same airport you took off from as your plane was taking off. But they cant really test that theory because it would cost way too much and fuel would be a major problem because everytime you slow to fuel up in midair you lose some of the time you jumped. Lastly you would have to stay in the air for up to a year your time.
It has actually been surmised that this extremely minor timeshift is one of the many factors that leads to jetlag. But I dont know about that. I only experiance jetlag flying from west to east and if I only drink water (no coffee, soda, or juice) and keep covered up I dont experiance jetlag at all.
As for whether or not time travel will be possible I dont know. Anything is possible. And maybe we are being visited all the time. But it could be that they can only watch and not interact. Like viewing a movie. I would love that. Plano and I could then bet $1 and go see who is right. heh
Kai
Time dilation at orbital velocities is on the order of 1/1000 of a second over the course of weeks. I.E. if you have a clock that very accurately measure time over the period of weeks moving 20 thousand miles per hour it will end up ~ 1 millisecond behind a clock that didnt move.
Im not even sure the time dilation effect from a jet aircraft is large enough to measure. The direction of travel relative to the earths rotation would not matter because time dilation effects are always relative to some other frame of reference. I.E. the only way any motion can be described is relative to some other object, and the reference we normally use is the earths surface. I.E. the passage of time we consider "normal" is for an object sitting stationary wrt the earths surface.
For more interesting info on how the earths rotation and revolution fail to impact time and motion calculations wiki the MichelsonMorley experiment.
I haven't given alot of time to the theory of time travel i just like theoretical physics. It's a hobby much like games. Theoretical physics is the science of dreamers. It's plausible but not proven.In essence anything is possible.
There was a great PBS show that went into detail about "String Theory" that if you did not have a chance to check out, it might be worth your time. It involves a couple things, mainly multiple dimensions...but it lends itself well to the "Anything is possible" arguement. I think they did an example where if you tried to walk through a wall enough times (some crazy ass number), eventually you would be able to do it. It might not have been the "String Theory" show where I heard that, as I also enjoy a slight dabbling into theoretical physics.
Originally posted by Draenor I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
I also heard one of the main problems with travelling at the speed of light or beyond (if you hold to Einstein's E=MC^2) is the fact that mass actually moves towards being infinite hence needing and infinite amount of energy to keep it moving. Now that is a heavy subject : here is a link CLICKY
One of the reasons that prevent any object with a mass going at or faster than the speed of light is that the mass is not constant - it increases with velocity and it goes to infinity at the speed of light. So that eventually you need infinite amounts of energy to accelerate infinite mass past the speed of light mark! (and as far as I know we have yet to find an infinite source of energy :-)
We really do not know what would happen to time when an object passes the speed of light. The only thing we have to rely on is the Special Theory of Relativity (Einstein 1905) and according to it time in a moving reference frame (say your space ship) goes slower as compared to a stationary frame (say Earth) the faster you go. In fact the equation that governs this so called time dilation is given below:
So you see when you start off - at zero speed (0% of speed of light) your time is just regular i.e. the time slowing factor (xt) is equal to 1. As you speed up your time runs slower by the factor shown on the y-axis. As you are approaching 100% of the speed of light your time slows more and more until it is infinitely slowed down. (You should realize that everything slows down including your heart beats, your thoughts, etc.) So for an example if your ship goes at 98% of the speed of light and you take a one year journey, when you return to Earth five years have gone by.
This region of speeds below 100% of the speed of light is the region of our regular time or Real Time.
Now say somehow you were able to go faster than the speed of light (i.e. the v in the above equation is now greater than c the speed of light). The equation will then give us a square root of a negative number on the right hand side (which is an imaginary number.) Well I can factor out the imaginary unit number (i or the square root of minus one) and plot the result on the same graph. This region I call Imaginary Time since it is some weird time with an imaginary unit attached to it (so I don't really know what this time means.)
However you see that time in this imaginary region will speed up from infinity to the regular time speed of 1 and continue speeding up. At 140% or higher speed of light, time slowdown factor is less than one, i.e. time will go faster than in the stationary frame! So for an example if your ship goes at 200% of the speed of light and you take a one year journey, when you return to Earth only about 7 months have gone by. However I need to stress again that this is just a crazy thought experiment which produces some weird imaginary time and has no physical meaning.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Firstoff, could a person travel back to a time in which they were alive, that is, co-exist with themselves by occupying the same instant in the time continuim?
Second, if it is possible to travel back in time, and affect events that would alter the future, could you threaten your own existance? That is, could you travel back in the past, murder your mother and father prior to your birth? Thus, you would never exist to travel back in the past.
Third, if a time traveler could go back and alter the future, wouldn't the powers that be upline from the altering event have some sort of a mechanism to prevent this from happening? Something like a time patrol force to ensure the upliner's existance is not altered. maybe there are time wars going on in the continuim?
Originally posted by olddaddy Firstoff, could a person travel back to a time in which they were alive, that is, co-exist with themselves by occupying the same instant in the time continuim? Second, if it is possible to travel back in time, and affect events that would alter the future, could you threaten your own existance? That is, could you travel back in the past, murder your mother and father prior to your birth? Thus, you would never exist to travel back in the past. Third, if a time traveler could go back and alter the future, wouldn't the powers that be upline from the altering event have some sort of a mechanism to prevent this from happening? Something like a time patrol force to ensure the upliner's existance is not altered. maybe there are time wars going on in the continuim? Anyone sense a MMORPG opportunity here?
Originally posted by olddaddy Firstoff, could a person travel back to a time in which they were alive, that is, co-exist with themselves by occupying the same instant in the time continuim? Second, if it is possible to travel back in time, and affect events that would alter the future, could you threaten your own existance? That is, could you travel back in the past, murder your mother and father prior to your birth? Thus, you would never exist to travel back in the past. Third, if a time traveler could go back and alter the future, wouldn't the powers that be upline from the altering event have some sort of a mechanism to prevent this from happening? Something like a time patrol force to ensure the upliner's existance is not altered. maybe there are time wars going on in the continuim? Anyone sense a MMORPG opportunity here?
**Raise's hand** I saw this one...it had Jean-Claude Van Drunk. It was called "Time Cop" or was it CrazyAss Tom Cruise in "Minority Report"
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Originally posted by Draenor I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Draenor I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass. ......somebodys monkey ass, duh.
Originally posted by Draenor I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Don't take yourself or what I said to seriously. It was a good natured jab, after reading many many of your posts, I have a good idea where you are coming from. No need to beat any dead horses.
If you look what I posted, it almost agrees with what you wrote. If you tried to go back in time moving at the speed of light then everything would slow down...as it says, so your movement, your heartbeat, even your thoughts would slow down as well. It would most likely slow down to where "controlling" anything would be impossible.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Originally posted by Draenor I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Don't take yourself or what I said to seriously. It was a good natured jab, after reading many many of your posts, I have a good idea where you are coming from. No need to beat any dead horses.
If you look what I posted, it almost agrees with what you wrote. If you tried to go back in time moving at the speed of light then everything would slow down...as it says, so your movement, your heartbeat, even your thoughts would slow down as well. It would most likely slow down to where "controlling" anything would be impossible.
Or you could take my point of view of the whole light speed travel thing: you'll never move at the speed of light so it doesn't matter
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
If someone traveled back in time from the future, then it would have already happened, and the effects already taken place IMO.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
Originally posted by Awakened If someone traveled back in time from the future, then it would have already happened, and the effects already taken place IMO.
John Titor claimed to have done it and he was promptly dismissed.
Originally posted by Draenor I have never bought into the theory that a person traveling at light speed would be able to manipulate time or even go back through time...I've never heard any real solid science for it to be based on, only that it is a theory accepted by some scientists.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Don't take yourself or what I said to seriously. It was a good natured jab, after reading many many of your posts, I have a good idea where you are coming from. No need to beat any dead horses.
If you look what I posted, it almost agrees with what you wrote. If you tried to go back in time moving at the speed of light then everything would slow down...as it says, so your movement, your heartbeat, even your thoughts would slow down as well. It would most likely slow down to where "controlling" anything would be impossible.
Or you could take my point of view of the whole light speed travel thing: you'll never move at the speed of light so it doesn't matter
No its theoreticly impossible for matter to travel at the speed of light in 3 dimensional space but if you take into account the universe is made up or more dimensions then we precieve which is most certainly the case according to all recent findings done on theoretical quantum physics. Alter the space around an object with a very dense gravitational and magnetic field and you bend space, once we learn what dark matter and dark enrgy is and discover an actual tachyeon then you will see how easy time travel actualy is if you take into account a multi-dimensional universe which I would bet is the case.
No its theoreticly impossible for matter to travel at the speed of light in 3 dimensional space but if you take into account the universe is made up or more dimensions then we precieve which is most certainly the case according to all recent findings done on theoretical quantum physics. Alter the space around an object with a very dense gravitational and magnetic field and you bend space, once we learn what dark matter and dark enrgy is and discover an actual tachyeon then you will see how easy time travel actualy is if you take into account a multi-dimensional universe which I would bet is the case.
theories based on theories based on theories. not only will i be able to travel through time, but ill also be able to teleport me atoms to distant planets and such. lol, sorry, just poking fun. personally, i dont believe it will ever happen. if it does, ill come back on here to issue an official apology. good read tho. hey, slickinfinit, i already asked you this once, but can you point me to some scientific papers or sites online that deal specificly about this. im abolutely fasciated by it.
No its theoreticly impossible for matter to travel at the speed of light in 3 dimensional space but if you take into account the universe is made up or more dimensions then we precieve which is most certainly the case according to all recent findings done on theoretical quantum physics. Alter the space around an object with a very dense gravitational and magnetic field and you bend space, once we learn what dark matter and dark enrgy is and discover an actual tachyeon then you will see how easy time travel actualy is if you take into account a multi-dimensional universe which I would bet is the case.
theories based on theories based on theories. not only will i be able to travel through time, but ill also be able to teleport me atoms to distant planets and such. lol, sorry, just poking fun. personally, i dont believe it will ever happen. if it does, ill come back on here to issue an official apology. good read tho. hey, slickinfinit, i already asked you this once, but can you point me to some scientific papers or sites online that deal specificly about this. im abolutely fasciated by it.
Here is an explanation of a Tachyon and I stongly believe they exist and have neither been observed nor disproved but some models of superstring theory include them: http://www.scienceforums.net/
Seriously though I have an open mind and can accept that many scientists and myself who believe that there is many undiscovered universal phenomenon at all levels could be wrong but I highly doubt it, I think were just scratching the surface and only discovered a fraction of whats really out there.
Comments
Its all supposition really. Mind you whether its real or not is realtively unimportant. Most of us can except that we think we feel and we except that the other things around us do to. The fact theres a aggreance of whats going on is enough. We use these aggreances to feel and enjoy and supposedly progress. Supposition is enough for me
im seriously curious about this subject. can you point me to scientific papers or docs or something online, that i can study up on this. this is fasciating. ive never heard that before. and as far as what i wrote, thats just me own opinion. i dont have any facts to support it. however, if we find out that im right, you all are going to owe me an apology, lol.
i still believe what i wrote, and the fact that we have never met any time travelers yet seems to support that. i believe like some other guy wrote in this thread, that if it were possible. we would have already experienced something like it. if in 100 years, 200 years, they were to develop it, theres no doubt in me mind that they would have come back here and changed me post, lol. you thought i was going to say 9/11, eh? lol.
anyway, i really wanna read up on this 4th dimension thing you were talking about. i love science.
______________________________
im seriously curious about this subject. can you point me to scientific papers or docs or something online, that i can study up on this. this is fasciating. ive never heard that before. and as far as what i wrote, thats just me own opinion. i dont have any facts to support it. however, if we find out that im right, you all are going to owe me an apology, lol.
i still believe what i wrote, and the fact that we have never met any time travelers yet seems to support that. i believe like some other guy wrote in this thread, that if it were possible. we would have already experienced something like it. if in 100 years, 200 years, they were to develop it, theres no doubt in me mind that they would have come back here and changed me post, lol. you thought i was going to say 9/11, eh? lol.
anyway, i really wanna read up on this 4th dimension thing you were talking about. i love science.
When you fly very long distances you can actually go forward or backward in time. If you fly west to east you go forward in time but its only by a second or less. And if you go east to west you go back in time by a second or less. But you have to fly very long distances and in a jet liner. Like Bangkok to LAX or Berlin to New York.
There is actually a theory if you can stay in a plane flying east to west continuously long enough you could actually land at the same airport you took off from as your plane was taking off. But they cant really test that theory because it would cost way too much and fuel would be a major problem because everytime you slow to fuel up in midair you lose some of the time you jumped. Lastly you would have to stay in the air for up to a year your time.
It has actually been surmised that this extremely minor timeshift is one of the many factors that leads to jetlag. But I dont know about that. I only experiance jetlag flying from west to east and if I only drink water (no coffee, soda, or juice) and keep covered up I dont experiance jetlag at all.
As for whether or not time travel will be possible I dont know. Anything is possible. And maybe we are being visited all the time. But it could be that they can only watch and not interact. Like viewing a movie. I would love that. Plano and I could then bet $1 and go see who is right. heh
Kai
COPELAND!! Gosh darn it! Get in here and give a verbal beating to Kai!!!
Kai, if you fly from LAX to say.. Manila. If you left LAX at say Monday 1pm, you get in manila 34 hours later. So youd arrive tuesday 11pm pst. In manila it would be Wed. 2am. Not because you traveled fowards in time. Rather because your on the bloody other side of the world! THe other person isnt experiencing things several hours earlier. There experiences it at the same exact moment! Just the clock shows time diffrently because theyre basing there clock off the shadow and light of the sun! When It rises and falls.
Now the person on the plane would be a milisecond younger the rest of the world because to him time traveled slower the entire trip on the plane because of speed. Objects moving faster then there relative surroundings have slightly less temporal connectivity to there surrounding matter. Youd have to travel VERY fast to see any noticeable diffrence. Satellites moving 74,000 mph do notice it enough that there instruments have to take it into account.
And it wouldnt take 34 bloody hours to get to manila. From LAX it takes about 14 hours. 16 if you stop in Hawaii for fuel.
If you fly west to east your a millisecond older and if your flying east to west your a millisecond younger so some such thing. I wish I had that article on it that I found at San Fransico's airport. But I left it on the plane. It was a real ripping read. And the theory sounded cool too. If you can stay flying 24/7 for one year you could "theoritically" land at the same airport at the sametime you left. Its just a theory and one that cant ever be proven but its cool.
Kai
Time dilation at orbital velocities is on the order of 1/1000 of a second over the course of weeks. I.E. if you have a clock that very accurately measure time over the period of weeks moving 20 thousand miles per hour it will end up ~ 1 millisecond behind a clock that didnt move.
Im not even sure the time dilation effect from a jet aircraft is large enough to measure. The direction of travel relative to the earths rotation would not matter because time dilation effects are always relative to some other frame of reference. I.E. the only way any motion can be described is relative to some other object, and the reference we normally use is the earths surface. I.E. the passage of time we consider "normal" is for an object sitting stationary wrt the earths surface.
For more interesting info on how the earths rotation and revolution fail to impact time and motion calculations wiki the MichelsonMorley experiment.
*Hugs Lomiller*
every 20 million miles per hour is a second slower. So at the speed of light youd be traveling about 50 seconds slower. So in realtive terms about 10 seconds would pass on the object for every minute on earth. If you traveled around earth for 10 months youd feel one month and the rest 10 months. Thats really REALLY rough calculations and just off the top of my head hehe. No paper even
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Time dilation at orbital velocities is on the order of 1/1000 of a second over the course of weeks. I.E. if you have a clock that very accurately measure time over the period of weeks moving 20 thousand miles per hour it will end up ~ 1 millisecond behind a clock that didnt move.
Im not even sure the time dilation effect from a jet aircraft is large enough to measure. The direction of travel relative to the earths rotation would not matter because time dilation effects are always relative to some other frame of reference. I.E. the only way any motion can be described is relative to some other object, and the reference we normally use is the earths surface. I.E. the passage of time we consider "normal" is for an object sitting stationary wrt the earths surface.
For more interesting info on how the earths rotation and revolution fail to impact time and motion calculations wiki the MichelsonMorley experiment.
thank you lomiller for this, im studying it now.
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I haven't given alot of time to the theory of time travel i just like theoretical physics. It's a hobby much like games. Theoretical physics is the science of dreamers. It's plausible but not proven. In essence anything is possible.
There was a great PBS show that went into detail about "String Theory" that if you did not have a chance to check out, it might be worth your time. It involves a couple things, mainly multiple dimensions...but it lends itself well to the "Anything is possible" arguement. I think they did an example where if you tried to walk through a wall enough times (some crazy ass number), eventually you would be able to do it. It might not have been the "String Theory" show where I heard that, as I also enjoy a slight dabbling into theoretical physics.
are you sure it wasnt Jackass the movie, lol?
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Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
I also heard one of the main problems with travelling at the speed of light or beyond (if you hold to Einstein's E=MC^2) is the fact that mass actually moves towards being infinite hence needing and infinite amount of energy to keep it moving. Now that is a heavy subject : here is a link CLICKY
One of the reasons that prevent any object with a mass going at or faster than the speed of light is that the mass is not constant - it increases with velocity and it goes to infinity at the speed of light. So that eventually you need infinite amounts of energy to accelerate infinite mass past the speed of light mark! (and as far as I know we have yet to find an infinite source of energy :-)
We really do not know what would happen to time when an object passes the speed of light. The only thing we have to rely on is the Special Theory of Relativity (Einstein 1905) and according to it time in a moving reference frame (say your space ship) goes slower as compared to a stationary frame (say Earth) the faster you go. In fact the equation that governs this so called time dilation is given below:
So you see when you start off - at zero speed (0% of speed of light) your time is just regular i.e. the time slowing factor (xt) is equal to 1. As you speed up your time runs slower by the factor shown on the y-axis. As you are approaching 100% of the speed of light your time slows more and more until it is infinitely slowed down. (You should realize that everything slows down including your heart beats, your thoughts, etc.) So for an example if your ship goes at 98% of the speed of light and you take a one year journey, when you return to Earth five years have gone by.
This region of speeds below 100% of the speed of light is the region of our regular time or Real Time.
Now say somehow you were able to go faster than the speed of light (i.e. the v in the above equation is now greater than c the speed of light). The equation will then give us a square root of a negative number on the right hand side (which is an imaginary number.) Well I can factor out the imaginary unit number (i or the square root of minus one) and plot the result on the same graph. This region I call Imaginary Time since it is some weird time with an imaginary unit attached to it (so I don't really know what this time means.)
However you see that time in this imaginary region will speed up from infinity to the regular time speed of 1 and continue speeding up. At 140% or higher speed of light, time slowdown factor is less than one, i.e. time will go faster than in the stationary frame! So for an example if your ship goes at 200% of the speed of light and you take a one year journey, when you return to Earth only about 7 months have gone by. However I need to stress again that this is just a crazy thought experiment which produces some weird imaginary time and has no physical meaning.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Firstoff, could a person travel back to a time in which they were alive, that is, co-exist with themselves by occupying the same instant in the time continuim?
Second, if it is possible to travel back in time, and affect events that would alter the future, could you threaten your own existance? That is, could you travel back in the past, murder your mother and father prior to your birth? Thus, you would never exist to travel back in the past.
Third, if a time traveler could go back and alter the future, wouldn't the powers that be upline from the altering event have some sort of a mechanism to prevent this from happening? Something like a time patrol force to ensure the upliner's existance is not altered. maybe there are time wars going on in the continuim?
Anyone sense a MMORPG opportunity here?
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"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
......somebodys monkey ass, duh.
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Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Don't take yourself or what I said to seriously. It was a good natured jab, after reading many many of your posts, I have a good idea where you are coming from. No need to beat any dead horses.
If you look what I posted, it almost agrees with what you wrote. If you tried to go back in time moving at the speed of light then everything would slow down...as it says, so your movement, your heartbeat, even your thoughts would slow down as well. It would most likely slow down to where "controlling" anything would be impossible.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Don't take yourself or what I said to seriously. It was a good natured jab, after reading many many of your posts, I have a good idea where you are coming from. No need to beat any dead horses.
If you look what I posted, it almost agrees with what you wrote. If you tried to go back in time moving at the speed of light then everything would slow down...as it says, so your movement, your heartbeat, even your thoughts would slow down as well. It would most likely slow down to where "controlling" anything would be impossible.
Or you could take my point of view of the whole light speed travel thing: you'll never move at the speed of light so it doesn't matter
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
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Not that you were ever one for science in the first place..... I kid, I kid.
despite that you are joking, you probably do believe this..and it's not true, I believe whole heartedly in science, I just don't believe in science when it's based upon nothing but speculation and conjectures based upon pre concieved notions that came from somebody's ass.
Don't take yourself or what I said to seriously. It was a good natured jab, after reading many many of your posts, I have a good idea where you are coming from. No need to beat any dead horses.
If you look what I posted, it almost agrees with what you wrote. If you tried to go back in time moving at the speed of light then everything would slow down...as it says, so your movement, your heartbeat, even your thoughts would slow down as well. It would most likely slow down to where "controlling" anything would be impossible.
Or you could take my point of view of the whole light speed travel thing: you'll never move at the speed of light so it doesn't matter
No its theoreticly impossible for matter to travel at the speed of light in 3 dimensional space but if you take into account the universe is made up or more dimensions then we precieve which is most certainly the case according to all recent findings done on theoretical quantum physics. Alter the space around an object with a very dense gravitational and magnetic field and you bend space, once we learn what dark matter and dark enrgy is and discover an actual tachyeon then you will see how easy time travel actualy is if you take into account a multi-dimensional universe which I would bet is the case.
{(RIP)} SWG
No its theoreticly impossible for matter to travel at the speed of light in 3 dimensional space but if you take into account the universe is made up or more dimensions then we precieve which is most certainly the case according to all recent findings done on theoretical quantum physics. Alter the space around an object with a very dense gravitational and magnetic field and you bend space, once we learn what dark matter and dark enrgy is and discover an actual tachyeon then you will see how easy time travel actualy is if you take into account a multi-dimensional universe which I would bet is the case.
theories based on theories based on theories. not only will i be able to travel through time, but ill also be able to teleport me atoms to distant planets and such. lol, sorry, just poking fun. personally, i dont believe it will ever happen. if it does, ill come back on here to issue an official apology. good read tho. hey, slickinfinit, i already asked you this once, but can you point me to some scientific papers or sites online that deal specificly about this. im abolutely fasciated by it.
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No its theoreticly impossible for matter to travel at the speed of light in 3 dimensional space but if you take into account the universe is made up or more dimensions then we precieve which is most certainly the case according to all recent findings done on theoretical quantum physics. Alter the space around an object with a very dense gravitational and magnetic field and you bend space, once we learn what dark matter and dark enrgy is and discover an actual tachyeon then you will see how easy time travel actualy is if you take into account a multi-dimensional universe which I would bet is the case.
theories based on theories based on theories. not only will i be able to travel through time, but ill also be able to teleport me atoms to distant planets and such. lol, sorry, just poking fun. personally, i dont believe it will ever happen. if it does, ill come back on here to issue an official apology. good read tho. hey, slickinfinit, i already asked you this once, but can you point me to some scientific papers or sites online that deal specificly about this. im abolutely fasciated by it.
Sure here is a site that has alot of smart people discussing these topics daily: http://www.scienceforums.net/
Here is an explanation of a Tachyon and I stongly believe they exist and have neither been observed nor disproved but some models of superstring theory include them: http://www.scienceforums.net/
Here is a brief explanation of string theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory
Seriously though I have an open mind and can accept that many scientists and myself who believe that there is many undiscovered universal phenomenon at all levels could be wrong but I highly doubt it, I think were just scratching the surface and only discovered a fraction of whats really out there.
{(RIP)} SWG