This is getting to be a very tired subject for editorials. Yeah, yeah, holy grail...*yawn*. Female gamer here and mother of four adult daughter gamers. Not holy grails, but the five of us can kick arse with the best of you. Been playing online for seven years....Next!
A good friend of mine plays CoH, puzzle pirates and AO. And unless she had some very good doctors and years of hormone therapy I can say with confidence girl gamers exsist. And I've met them in the flesh, not just one, but many. To think they don't exsist, or they must be ugly or something like that is just laughable. From P&P, to LARP, to shooters to MMO's, I know lots of women who are very active in their respective communities.
I think the issue with more guys is not a question of whether girls game, but whether "hot" girls game. Naturally, when we hear rumors of a girl gamer, we look around at our male gamer buddies, and figure that the female equivilent must look somewhat similar. And trust me, we aren't a pretty bunch.
There is an old saying in this genre that MMORPG really stands for - Many Men Online RolePlaying Girls. As long as this type of thing happens(Which will be forever) girls online will have to put up with the unbelievers. Guys play girl avatars all the time and most will tell you that they are really a guy but there are some that actually try to pass themselves off as women. As long as this type of behavior ensues, which will be as long as there are MMORPGs, Girl gamers will have to put up with a certain amount of prejudice from the gaming comunity where sexual identity is concerned. Have we heard this all before?.....yes. Will we hear it again?.....yes. Will we hear it ten years from now?....yes. It will never go away, sorry ladies.
yes, there are alot of female players. reasons? 1. most of mmorpgs pose no challenege or any sence of adventure. the hardcore style games are gone, with them, the awesomness of pure hardcore male group gave way to casual players and female player market. 2. alot of casual player guys are playing, and they have to brind their wifes in to play, so they dont get wife agro. 3. North America: The number of overweight people are growing astronomcally, where they to go? Gaming, this includes fugly girls too that explains your 15 females in every 100 gamers.
Much to my sadness, I have never run into a female video gamer in real life. I've run into one or two who play traditional pen-and-paper RPGs, and quite a few who enjoy LARPing, but never one that enoyed the electronic medium as well.
In terms of those I have met online, I met a decent number during my time in SWG (perhaps one in twenty of the people I knew in game was female IRL). However, that is a direct contrast to EVE Online, which could mildly be described as a "sausage-fest". I've run into, perhaps, five or six female gamers in the entire time I've played, compared to the hundreds of guys I've been in corps and alliances with.
There have been a lot of theories thrown about as to why this is, from "women don't enjoy true sci-fi games" to "they don't like it because there's no avatar and they can't dress up pretty" to "women don't like games where players kill other players". Some of the theories are clearly bullshit, but others may hold some grain of truth.
Any females care to comment on why we don't see more of the fairer sex playing EVE?
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Originally posted by afsolesky I think the issue with more guys is not a question of whether girls game, but whether "hot" girls game. Naturally, when we hear rumors of a girl gamer, we look around at our male gamer buddies, and figure that the female equivilent must look somewhat similar. And trust me, we aren't a pretty bunch.
Two of my four daughters have been asked to sign at modeling agencies. I'd say that makes them hot female gamers, and not just a mother's prejudice. They all have cute female gamer friends too. They have boyfriends and husbands that are tall dark and handsome young men too. Girl gamers AND guy gamers come in all varieties. We don't all look like toons from South Park.
>.. what happened to gaming news. Everyone knows girls game just as much as guys How the hell does it make news here on this site? I'm kinda of sick of the stupid articles filling my email. How about reporting on games instead of this garbage.
Matter of fact let me cancel these notices and the newsletter, there all better now. This sites on a downward spiral. Wtf happened to good old fashion game reporting. This gossip hour crap is disgusting. I mean seriously look at the title here and the last several email notifications we've been getting... You folks need to get out more.
I don't find this editorial sad. I find it sad that it's still needed among many people. Oh, obviously not this crowd here- seems most everyone here knows better. So I guess this editorial, while meant with the best intentions, was just aimed at the wrong crowd. But, in gaming, I do have to defend my gender far more often than not. Am I just unlucky? I'm more of a gamer than my husband, have been since before we got together, yet when we meet people online they give him the thumbs up for 'getting his woman into the game'. Sigh. It's usually the other way around.
Originally posted by Wrayeth Any females care to comment on why we don't see more of the fairer sex playing EVE?
I can only answer this for myself: I don't play EVE because I found it to be the most boring thing I'd ever tried to play. Due to friends who got me into it I gave it my best and played for nearly 3 months before I couldn't take it anymore. I honestly found no fun in it whatsoever. Just not my thing, I guess. I was very sad to find that it wasn't... SciFi is my favorite genre (I like Fantasy too, sure, but I'm getting so sick of it!), and I really did want to like it. I just couldn't manage to.
Female here and sci-fi is my favorite genre too. But I beta tested Eve and hated the game. I spent all this time in character creation to create this face for a toon that never got out of her spaceship. I like RP with my mmorpg's. I'm highly amped about the Stargate game in production. Highly Amped.
And I was the one that got the hubby hooked onto WoW, met him in EQ, we both went hand in hand to EQ2, and he got me into Guild Wars. We take turns getting each other into games and every one of our family get togethers, like this last Thanksgiving....almost entirely made up of gaming talk. My husband just stands there beaming proudly at all his step-daughters yakking about the gaming, their men getting a word in edgewise occasionally.
And by the way...my ex hated my gaming. He wanted me to spend more "quality" time with him on the couch watching him flip channels all night or stare like a zombie all weekend on Dukes of Hazzard marathons. He even threatened to cut off my acrylic nails because of the noise they make while I'm slapping keys and killing mobs.
My present and forever hubby....says that the sound of my acrylic french-nails pounding on my keyboard are sounds of a happy gamer. I love that man. Best husband evah!!!
Well, here's another female gamer, and I can speak to the eve conundrum. I started playing wow because all the guys at the place I worked played. I worked in tech support, where mmorpgs are very popular. I played wow for a year, and I enjoyed it, but there were several things missing. I too, am awaiting vanguard with bated breath, since the crafting is supposed to be uber.
My favorite genre is sci-fi, and when I heard eve was out there I was pumped. Several things delayed me trying it. Mostly, eveyone I talked to about it said it was boring and I would never catch up. Also, I was put off by the lack of body and walking around interacting with people. FInally I tried it a month ago, and I have to say, I like it so far. The space feel is very real, and getting into a player corp makes it easy to focus on what you need to do to get where you want to be. But the truth is, we females *do* like to make things. We like to color things. We like to buy shoes, for crying out loud. It's obvious with too many games, they are really overlooking the people who are not about fighting all the time. I like to incinerate people just as much as the next person, but there's more to me than that.
Wow was smart to put fishing in there. Sometimes you just want to stand and listen to the birds and the water lapping at the shore and get you some fish.
Okay I'm sorry, If someone cares what gender you are when you game, especially to the point of having make you prove it, they need to realize a couple things.
At least a third of the players in my "corporation" in EVE are women. I generally find that, among mature roleplayers -- the people who roleplay fully developed characters with realistic personalities, and who use complete sentences -- the numbers of women and men draw more even. In general, the presence of women in a playing group tends to suggest it's a group of mature, serious players, the sort who will, at the very least, stomp down upon expressions of sexism.
I should add, by the way, that while EVE is most famous for PVP, there is a great deal of roleplaying to be had on the basis of politics and diplomacy within the game.
I think the frequent denial that any women are present, that any player who claims to be a woman has to prove it, is a tactic by sexist men to intimidate women into silence and chase them out of the game. For some reason, some men find the presence of women to be threatening. It usually goes along with a very narrow vision of what gaming means, and heavily stereotyped ideas of gender roles and gaming styles.
I think things have moved on a bit now, girl gamers are much more common than ever before. When I first started I got all the usual 'girls don't game' nonsense, but what I found mostly was the horrified comments bacause I was not only female, but horror of horrors, a mature female. I play MMO's with my hubby and kids and even now find that some players, most especially the younger ones, find this very hard to come to terms with. I often get told 'your too old to play games' and yet my hubby never gets told that. My kids however think it is very cool, and many older guys comment that they wish their wife/girlfriend would show an interest
I believe a lot of the problem with the female issue is the males who make females char and then pretend to be girls in order to get items, powerleveling etc. We had a discussion about this on guild chat just the other day, one of my guildies said "I know you and (my daughter who is 18) are real girls cos you don't flirt with everyone and ask for stuff. I like to think I can spot a fake from a mile away, but some of them are pretty good at it
Yes girl gamers are real, and I think the question should have been are girl chars real
As long as it still happens in games, that females playing female characters are in ooc-chat referred to as "he" and "him" there is need for such an article!!!!
Guys in games always assume that they talk to other guys until there is proof to the contrary -.-
As long as it still happens in games, that females playing female characters are in ooc-chat referred to as "he" and "him" there is need for such an article!!!!
I'm sorry, but I use 'he' most of the time if I have to use a pronoun like that because there is no singular, third person, gender neutral pronoun in the English language!
Women in RPGs runs in the family and friends of the family. My father dated several girls back in the days around when 2ed D&D came out who played in his tabletop RPG group. Also, my mom and dad meet though a theatre fraternity group and he introduced her to D&D there, since many of them played it. I have also introduced several of my female friends to D&D.
I know many lady gamers, though all the ones I know personally aren't into online games. For example, one girl I went to school with plays snowboarding games and the like hardcore. However, until we both graduated from high school, she juggled all that with cheerleading, school, softball, a VERY healthy social life, and working full time in her parent's miniature golf place. Oh, and did I mention that she was drop-dead gorgeous? Others include my sister, mother and grandmother.
Yes, I know that there are women out there who share my interests and I salute them for standing against the social norms.
Originally posted by stpatty Yes, I know that there are women out there who share my interests and I salute them for standing against the social norms.
That's the whole thing though, woman gaming is not against social norms, it is so common now that a woman gaming is just as normal as a guy gaming. We may outnumber them but I am sure woman gaming is by no means a surprise thing anymore
I know that female players do exist since my wife is one
The thing is that as someone told earlier in this thread the real queston is why males make female toons?
And there are a few reason for that...
What I think is that most of the times you can spot easily in any game a female or a male player unless there is one hardcore roleplayer playing the character.
I don't care about the gerne of the player although I get a bit frustrated seen female characters named Lord Valdemor or Superdooperkiller
The industry knows there are females playing mmorpg's and they are trying to make there games appea;ling to them.
Without wanting to be controversial but I would kind of say mmorpgs are kind of a feminine genre. What I mean by this is that there are some games girls are more likely to play than others, for example, the Sims. A feature of the Sims is you aren't being competitive asuch, the same goes for mmorpgs. Mmorpgs are more perhaps social inclined than many of the other genres. A game like a fps less girls will play, sure there are girls that will play them but they are a much more distinct minority than they are in either the Sims or mmorpgs with the reason fps' can be a lot more aggressive, antisocial and more competitive.
Hopefully I haven't offended anyone by saying this but pointing out an obvious correlation I don't think is out of line. Its kind of like saying builders is quite a masculine dominated job, yes there are female builders, but the majority are male. Yes, there probably could be more female builders as part of the reason there aren't so many female builders is because of tradition but even with that aside the jobs would be dominated by males as a perhaps physical leaning.
Comments
This is getting to be a very tired subject for editorials. Yeah, yeah, holy grail...*yawn*. Female gamer here and mother of four adult daughter gamers. Not holy grails, but the five of us can kick arse with the best of you. Been playing online for seven years....Next!
By the way, you want statistics, check out the Daedelus project at: http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/
Thanks for the demographic site link. I found what I was looking for in a few areas.
"We
know that 85% of MMORPG players are male..."
Therefore 15 gamers in 100 are girls.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_genderbend.html
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/demographics.html#1
Give a man fire and he''s warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he''s warm the rest of his life.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
playing eq2 and two worlds
There is an old saying in this genre that MMORPG really stands for - Many Men Online RolePlaying Girls. As long as this type of thing happens(Which will be forever) girls online will have to put up with the unbelievers. Guys play girl avatars all the time and most will tell you that they are really a guy but there are some that actually try to pass themselves off as women. As long as this type of behavior ensues, which will be as long as there are MMORPGs, Girl gamers will have to put up with a certain amount of prejudice from the gaming comunity where sexual identity is concerned. Have we heard this all before?.....yes. Will we hear it again?.....yes. Will we hear it ten years from now?....yes. It will never go away, sorry ladies.
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
1. most of mmorpgs pose no challenege or any sence of adventure. the hardcore style games are gone, with them, the awesomness of pure hardcore male group gave way to casual players and female player market.
2. alot of casual player guys are playing, and they have to brind their wifes in to play, so they dont get wife agro.
3. North America: The number of overweight people are growing astronomcally, where they to go? Gaming, this includes fugly girls too
that explains your 15 females in every 100 gamers.
Much to my sadness, I have never run into a female video gamer in real life. I've run into one or two who play traditional pen-and-paper RPGs, and quite a few who enjoy LARPing, but never one that enoyed the electronic medium as well.
In terms of those I have met online, I met a decent number during my time in SWG (perhaps one in twenty of the people I knew in game was female IRL). However, that is a direct contrast to EVE Online, which could mildly be described as a "sausage-fest". I've run into, perhaps, five or six female gamers in the entire time I've played, compared to the hundreds of guys I've been in corps and alliances with.
There have been a lot of theories thrown about as to why this is, from "women don't enjoy true sci-fi games" to "they don't like it because there's no avatar and they can't dress up pretty" to "women don't like games where players kill other players". Some of the theories are clearly bullshit, but others may hold some grain of truth.
Any females care to comment on why we don't see more of the fairer sex playing EVE?
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Matter of fact let me cancel these notices and the newsletter, there all better now. This sites on a downward spiral. Wtf happened to good old fashion game reporting. This gossip hour crap is disgusting. I mean seriously look at the title here and the last several email notifications we've been getting... You folks need to get out more.
FoE Fist of the Empire
I don't find this editorial sad. I find it sad that it's still needed among many people. Oh, obviously not this crowd here- seems most everyone here knows better. So I guess this editorial, while meant with the best intentions, was just aimed at the wrong crowd. But, in gaming, I do have to defend my gender far more often than not. Am I just unlucky? I'm more of a gamer than my husband, have been since before we got together, yet when we meet people online they give him the thumbs up for 'getting his woman into the game'. Sigh. It's usually the other way around.
I can only answer this for myself: I don't play EVE because I found it to be the most boring thing I'd ever tried to play. Due to friends who got me into it I gave it my best and played for nearly 3 months before I couldn't take it anymore. I honestly found no fun in it whatsoever. Just not my thing, I guess. I was very sad to find that it wasn't... SciFi is my favorite genre (I like Fantasy too, sure, but I'm getting so sick of it!), and I really did want to like it. I just couldn't manage to.
/Z/
Female here and sci-fi is my favorite genre too. But I beta tested Eve and hated the game. I spent all this time in character creation to create this face for a toon that never got out of her spaceship. I like RP with my mmorpg's. I'm highly amped about the Stargate game in production. Highly Amped.
And I was the one that got the hubby hooked onto WoW, met him in EQ, we both went hand in hand to EQ2, and he got me into Guild Wars. We take turns getting each other into games and every one of our family get togethers, like this last Thanksgiving....almost entirely made up of gaming talk. My husband just stands there beaming proudly at all his step-daughters yakking about the gaming, their men getting a word in edgewise occasionally.
And by the way...my ex hated my gaming. He wanted me to spend more "quality" time with him on the couch watching him flip channels all night or stare like a zombie all weekend on Dukes of Hazzard marathons. He even threatened to cut off my acrylic nails because of the noise they make while I'm slapping keys and killing mobs.
My present and forever hubby....says that the sound of my acrylic french-nails pounding on my keyboard are sounds of a happy gamer. I love that man. Best husband evah!!!
Well, here's another female gamer, and I can speak to the eve conundrum. I started playing wow because all the guys at the place I worked played. I worked in tech support, where mmorpgs are very popular. I played wow for a year, and I enjoyed it, but there were several things missing. I too, am awaiting vanguard with bated breath, since the crafting is supposed to be uber.
My favorite genre is sci-fi, and when I heard eve was out there I was pumped. Several things delayed me trying it. Mostly, eveyone I talked to about it said it was boring and I would never catch up. Also, I was put off by the lack of body and walking around interacting with people. FInally I tried it a month ago, and I have to say, I like it so far. The space feel is very real, and getting into a player corp makes it easy to focus on what you need to do to get where you want to be. But the truth is, we females *do* like to make things. We like to color things. We like to buy shoes, for crying out loud. It's obvious with too many games, they are really overlooking the people who are not about fighting all the time. I like to incinerate people just as much as the next person, but there's more to me than that.
Wow was smart to put fishing in there. Sometimes you just want to stand and listen to the birds and the water lapping at the shore and get you some fish.
Miner Ed (Eve)
Snowflurry (Wow)
"Did you see us fight?"
"No"
"Trap!"
Okay I'm sorry, If someone cares what gender you are when you game, especially to the point of having make you prove it, they need to realize a couple things.
1) They're here to game, not date you
2) Chances are she wouldn't date you anyways.
I should add, by the way, that while EVE is most famous for PVP, there is a great deal of roleplaying to be had on the basis of politics and diplomacy within the game.
I think the frequent denial that any women are present, that any player who claims to be a woman has to prove it, is a tactic by sexist men to intimidate women into silence and chase them out of the game. For some reason, some men find the presence of women to be threatening. It usually goes along with a very narrow vision of what gaming means, and heavily stereotyped ideas of gender roles and gaming styles.
I think things have moved on a bit now, girl gamers are much more common than ever before. When I first started I got all the usual 'girls don't game' nonsense, but what I found mostly was the horrified comments bacause I was not only female, but horror of horrors, a mature female. I play MMO's with my hubby and kids and even now find that some players, most especially the younger ones, find this very hard to come to terms with. I often get told 'your too old to play games' and yet my hubby never gets told that. My kids however think it is very cool, and many older guys comment that they wish their wife/girlfriend would show an interest
I believe a lot of the problem with the female issue is the males who make females char and then pretend to be girls in order to get items, powerleveling etc. We had a discussion about this on guild chat just the other day, one of my guildies said "I know you and (my daughter who is 18) are real girls cos you don't flirt with everyone and ask for stuff. I like to think I can spot a fake from a mile away, but some of them are pretty good at it
Yes girl gamers are real, and I think the question should have been are girl chars real
~Huff
For me , i just dont care if is a girl or boy for me is a
PLAYER he can say " oh im a girl ! " or " im a boy "
For me is a PLAYER i dont care if have 18 years or 10 years or if is a girl or boy
i just care about have another player it me playng in same team or enemy team .
I never ask for age i never ask if is a boy or girl
i just dont care all who enter in a game are PLAYERS
ps: sorry bad english
Have fun
characters are in ooc-chat referred to as "he" and "him" there is need
for such an article!!!!
Guys in games always assume that they talk to other guys until there is proof to the contrary -.-
GirlGamer here -.- and really succesful at it
I'm sorry, but I use 'he' most of the time if I have to use a pronoun like that because there is no singular, third person, gender neutral pronoun in the English language!
Women in RPGs runs in the family and friends of the family. My father dated several girls back in the days around when 2ed D&D came out who played in his tabletop RPG group. Also, my mom and dad meet though a theatre fraternity group and he introduced her to D&D there, since many of them played it. I have also introduced several of my female friends to D&D.
I know many lady gamers, though all the ones I know personally aren't into online games. For example, one girl I went to school with plays snowboarding games and the like hardcore. However, until we both graduated from high school, she juggled all that with cheerleading, school, softball, a VERY healthy social life, and working full time in her parent's miniature golf place. Oh, and did I mention that she was drop-dead gorgeous? Others include my sister, mother and grandmother.
Yes, I know that there are women out there who share my interests and I salute them for standing against the social norms.
I'm amazed that this is even a topic in todays society.
I know that female players do exist since my wife is one
The thing is that as someone told earlier in this thread the real queston is why males make female toons?
And there are a few reason for that...
What I think is that most of the times you can spot easily in any game a female or a male player unless there is one hardcore roleplayer playing the character.
I don't care about the gerne of the player although I get a bit frustrated seen female characters named Lord Valdemor or Superdooperkiller
The industry knows there are females playing mmorpg's and they are trying to make there games appea;ling to them.
anyway that's my 2 cents on the matter
Get me that ALE!!!!
Without wanting to be controversial but I would kind of say mmorpgs are kind of a feminine genre. What I mean by this is that there are some games girls are more likely to play than others, for example, the Sims. A feature of the Sims is you aren't being competitive asuch, the same goes for mmorpgs. Mmorpgs are more perhaps social inclined than many of the other genres. A game like a fps less girls will play, sure there are girls that will play them but they are a much more distinct minority than they are in either the Sims or mmorpgs with the reason fps' can be a lot more aggressive, antisocial and more competitive.
Hopefully I haven't offended anyone by saying this but pointing out an obvious correlation I don't think is out of line. Its kind of like saying builders is quite a masculine dominated job, yes there are female builders, but the majority are male. Yes, there probably could be more female builders as part of the reason there aren't so many female builders is because of tradition but even with that aside the jobs would be dominated by males as a perhaps physical leaning.