Worried about pvp in this game.

tbox

Its instanced and after playing wow and Guild wars I have had enough of instanced pvp.  A game about sailing and pirates should include good pvp.  Lets pray.

Samizdat

All combat in the game is instanced, npc or otherwise. What is cool about the PVP are the zones that will open and close as ports come into and out of contention. Should always keep the trade lanes interesting.

AutemOx

PvP is not instanced in the same sense as the WoW battlegrounds or GW PvP, except for the final battles, I believe.  Most of the PvP is going to be in open pvp zones, its not so much that two people talk to a PvP NPC or clickie on enter PvP mission button, it has a very open feel to it.

As opposed to calling it instanced, I would suggest that combat takes place in a Combat Cloud, sort of like in Realm Online   or like in other popular pirate games, such as Sid Meier's Pirates.  While navigating from port to port your ship moves far too fast to be engaged in strategic combat, and if you moved slower in navigation zones then well,   It would take weeks to get from port to port, and that is insanely lame.

hazmats

anyone know if they are gonna pvp servers... meaning open PvP anywhere on the map? (nation v nation is fine)

I hope it's not confined to certain PvP flagged areas. (minus safe zones for newbs or something)

afroburzing

instanced combat = fail. no risk, another possibly good mmo gone into the trash, yawn.

fastback67

Originally posted by afroburzing

instanced combat = fail. no risk, another possibly good mmo gone into the trash, yawn.

 

You're confused. You don't "go to an instance" to get into PvP combat. You attack players on the open sea, which is a persistent zone. Once you engage an enemy ship, you're transported to an instance so that the environment in which your combat takes place has a more realistic scale. Other players can even enter the instance to aid you, or ruin you, if the conditions are right. It's not instanced combat in the sense you're thinking of, this wont be a carebear MMO by a longshot.

isildur

I see this a lot, and I still have no idea what it means.  Can someone explain to me what, precisely, people mean when they say 'I won't play this game because of the instanced PvP'?



Because here's what we mean by it:



All ship combat takes place in an instance that we start up when ships go into battle.  We leave a marker behind on the world map showing where the battle is taking place.  Other people can sail up, and if one side or the other has called for help, they can join the battle.



Whether or not an area is PvP+ is determined at the world-map level, and has nothing to do with instancing.



What happens to you when you're sunk or captured is determined by game systems, and also has nothing to do with instancing.



I'd love to hear what people who show up here ranting about 'instancing' think we mean, so that I can come up with a different way to phrase how we do our ship combat so as not to provoke this reaction.

Doctorx777

You'd better thank your lucky stars there is instanced combat.  Without it, everything would probably be of a realistic scale and it would take forever to get anywhere in the game world.  I'm certain that would kill interest in the game far faster than instances ever could.

Cannabis12

agreed doctor

kano71

Ya realtime  sea travel by sail  would be very boring

Samuraisword

Allowing people to join an exisiting battle on one side or another is retarded though. Soloers would be at a clear disadvantage, even though the reality of the time period was that most pirates and privateers were soloers.

It's not realistic for ships to be able to communicate with each other over long distances during this time period. Artificial real world communication and sped up travel times should not be allowed to destroy the immersion factor of a vast sea and the real time distance factor of  this time period.

Ebil_Piwat

Soloers are at a dissadvantage! Michael Jordon, Kobe Bryant, and Shaq are all great basketball players, and yet if they stood on a basketball court alone I'd bet even a high school varsity team could score on, even beat them. Even a grizzly bear, can be taken down by a pack of wolves working together. In both cases it was strength in numbers, over a solo hunter who has to reassure himmself it was failure due to a vicious gank squad

As for your high tech communication device.... well walk outside. A plane at 35,000 feet can still be seen, and herd without 'calling' you to annouce it's location. Cannons are quite loud, the sound of which can be herd for miles. Just as smoke can be seen, or lookouts spotting sails of far off ships.

Imagine you wish to play a Naval captain of some country, and wish to PVP. Does it not make sence to be able to join a battle in defence of a merchant trader getting assailed by pirates? The pirates in turn get to battle something that puts up a fight, or try an escape with the goods. Either way it's a better challenge to PvP than just ganking a trader, or the slaughter of Noobs to get your kicks.

kjm2006

Originally posted by Samuraisword


Allowing people to join an exisiting battle on one side or another is retarded though. Soloers would be at a clear disadvantage, even though the reality of the time period was that most pirates and privateers were soloers.
It's not realistic for ships to be able to communicate with each other over long distances during this time period. Artificial real world communication and sped up travel times should not be allowed to destroy the immersion factor of a vast sea and the real time distance factor of  this time period.

I think you haven't heard of the term Fun Vs realism, where ideas just for the realism are not put in because it lessens the fun, you may think it would be cool to start off with, but you would soon want those fun things. Thus Devs don't put things in if they don't think it will make the game fun in the long run as, well that is the most important part of the game.

Sizzle69

As far as i know the combat instance system works like in rome total war, or the other games in the series if you played those. Where there is the strategy of movement/ placement of your ship within the overall enviroment, but when you engage in combat it goes into an instance as it is more suited to the strategy of combat rather than moving around vast areas. Nothing stopping more people engaging in the battle though, remember this on an ocean - totally different scale to normal MMOs, hence the instance.

kjm2006

Also something interesting that came out on the POTB site, that people won't be able to join the battle after 60secs of it starting (at this time anyway) which is cool as just when your going to win a whole load of his mates can't all sail up and blow you to bits, so basically only players nearby will be able to help you.

Samuraisword

Originally posted by kjm2006

Also something interesting that came out on the POTB site, that people won't be able to join the battle after 60secs of it starting (at this time anyway) which is cool as just when your going to win a whole load of his mates can't all sail up and blow you to bits, so basically only players nearby will be able to help you.

Glad to hear it. It makes sense that no one should be able to join an existing fight unless they were already in the immediate area. Soloers have an equal chance now.

Unknown

Originally posted by kjm2006

Also something interesting that came out on the POTB site, that people won't be able to join the battle after 60secs of it starting (at this time anyway) which is cool as just when your going to win a whole load of his mates can't all sail up and blow you to bits, so basically only players nearby will be able to help you.

 

I'm not sure I'm a fan of this.  It seems like a double-edged sword.  Sure, there's situations where I'd be plenty happy someone couldn't get their friends to help if they were out of the 60 second zone.  Alternatively, if my friends are on their way and they miss the 60 second zone by a few moments, then it turns into a bad thing. 

For example, myself and two friends are engaged by five pirate players.  We have two friends relatively close by, and they start heading over.  We're holding on well but really can't win the fight without our allies, as we are outnumbered.  Unfortunately, our allies arive about one minute and twenty seconds after the fight starts, and can't get into the battle.  In this situation, I really don't like this policy at all.  Obviously, if I'm part of the group of five that ganked two ships, then I guess I'm happy about the policy (although that's not my playstyle - I hate mismatch fights).  And of course I'd be happy if I'm winning a one on one with no interference.

Still, I'd rather have to worry about getting ganked in a one on one battle then my allies not being able to join in the truly good multiplayer battles.  So I guess in the end I really don't like this idea.

kraiden

"instanced" in this game wont be the instances you normaly know.

I had a full sit down with the CEO and lead designer of Flying labs "pirates of the burning sea" and infact I just got back. I will just say in short all of the types of pvp you can think of are covered in the game from ship to ship, avast we cbe bordin ya ship arr" type combat, and even destroying a city...... in more than one way...... (evil grin)

I am working on an editorial now, look for it in the next week for more information on all aspects on PoBC.

-Hasani-

havocthefirs

   I agree with the OP, an instance is a game kiiler as far as I'm concerned. An instance makes it feel like a stand alone game where you fight one or a few players online so why bother making it a mmorpg, because it no longer is. 

Samuraisword

I despise geographic instancing in MMOGs, which as you said ruins immersion and makes you feel like you are playing a single box game, but locked PVP combat only instancing makes perfect sense.

Unfortunately technological advances have enabled players to circumvent game design and use modern day voice communication devices to speak with each other in real time. In MMOGs you are supposed to be restricted to the environment setting of that particular world. Obviously ships at sea during this time period had no way of instant communication, and the locked PvP combat instancing prevents those players who undoubtedly won't respect the environment, from abusing real world communication devices for an advantage to call in reinforcements to aid them in PvP.

Without locked PvP combat instancing, immersion of the time period truly would be ruined.

Ahiles

The wounders of modern technology hey. 

godmathias

This combat system seems very intriguing.  I like the fact that others can join the instanced battle midway, althought i don't understand what the lead designer means "when one person calls for help".  Hmm.. nonetheless this game seems to have a lot of potential.  A lot of games have potential and end up being crap, so we will see where this goes.

mcdope66

I don't know everything about the game (yet), but when i think of 'calling for help', it may be something like if ships from your guild/country saw your flag and they were within sight distance they could get there in time to help.  Or maybe you would have to fly a certain flag to signal you need help???  I assume they are implementing some sort of flag system...?



This brings up another question for me though.  Are there at least sufficient distances between ports that you can catch merchant/solo ships "alone" so you can do 'piratey' things to them without a chance for them to get help?

Theutus

Originally posted by isildur

I see this a lot, and I still have no idea what it means.  Can someone explain to me what, precisely, people mean when they say 'I won't play this game because of the instanced PvP'?



Because here's what we mean by it:



All ship combat takes place in an instance that we start up when ships go into battle.  We leave a marker behind on the world map showing where the battle is taking place.  Other people can sail up, and if one side or the other has called for help, they can join the battle.



Whether or not an area is PvP+ is determined at the world-map level, and has nothing to do with instancing.



What happens to you when you're sunk or captured is determined by game systems, and also has nothing to do with instancing.



I'd love to hear what people who show up here ranting about 'instancing' think we mean, so that I can come up with a different way to phrase how we do our ship combat so as not to provoke this reaction.

Cptjuju

well, im pretty sure i understand what the devs are talking about. If youve ever played Pirates of the carribean (hehe) for xbox, its something like this:  There are two kinds of maps; a battle one and navigation one. on the navigation map you travel to other ports, yadda yadda yadda, this makes for much faster travel to distant ports. now when you are traveling the high seas, encounter another ship, and one of you attacks the other, you go into your own little mini-map sector of the ocean. in this you can control your ship with much greater efficiency and skill, as well as doing combat things, as opposed to navigation actions. anyone who comes along this point in the ocean where the two fighting ships met can join in (im guessing) and help either side. this all happens in real-time so as to keep everything all fine and dandy. this makes it much easier to have battles in which you can narrowly dodge an enemy's cannon shots and then travel a couple hundred miles to your destination.

hope this helps to anyone who is still confuzed

Samuraisword

Originally posted by Cptjuju


well, im pretty sure i understand what the devs are talking about. If youve ever played Pirates of the carribean (hehe) for xbox, its something like this:  There are two kinds of maps; a battle one and navigation one. on the navigation map you travel to other ports, yadda yadda yadda, this makes for much faster travel to distant ports. now when you are traveling the high seas, encounter another ship, and one of you attacks the other, you go into your own little mini-map sector of the ocean. in this you can control your ship with much greater efficiency and skill, as well as doing combat things, as opposed to navigation actions. anyone who comes along this point in the ocean where the two fighting ships met can join in (im guessing) and help either side. this all happens in real-time so as to keep everything all fine and dandy. this makes it much easier to have battles in which you can narrowly dodge an enemy's cannon shots and then travel a couple hundred miles to your destination.
hope this helps to anyone who is still confuzed

Well what I understand is that you cannot join an existing battle between players unless you were in the immediate area. The individual PvP encounters are locked for realism purposes so that players cannot call in reinforcements that were not within view already. Only the port PvP areas where control of a port is being waged will be open for new players to join continuously.