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Is there a hidden agenda behind Vsoh bashing?
sololoco
Member Posts: 542
You've seen many games of this type come out, games similar to WoW and EQ2. People go try them, some like, some don't and they'll post it on these and other forums. But that's it, afterwards you really don't see much said about it, especially if it's bad reviews because those who didn't like the new game went back to their old ones, games like WoW or just moved on to another game.
But!!! For some reason as can be seen here, you have lots and lots of negative feedback. Many from the same people, over and over again. So, me not being a fan of WoW I begin to think maybe, just maybe those who love and play WoW (not all but some) have been threaten or should I say, they saw Vanguard as being the game to surpass WoW and now they feel an obligation to put this game down as much as they can.
Now, I'm not defending Vanguard as I haven't even played the beta. I've had problems downloading the beta cd, but thats another story. I'm not defending it but it just seems a bit much the same people coming in day after day to put this game down. I figured, if you tried it and you didn't like it, while you have evey right to express yourself as much as you like, you've already said your piece and nothing anyone says will keep this game down if in fact, this game is destined to be a good one in the future.
I do agree on the game needing so much to play, it shouldn't be so. But as I've already said on another post, many of the new games coming out require as much and some even more then this one.
I'm not flaming anyone and as I already stated I'm not defending this game. Whether I'm wrong or right I'm simply making and stating an observation.
Comments
Another is they are ex-SWG players, pre-NGE of course, and they are out to get SOE no matter what, because they were betrayed. How's that?
Seems more viable. With WoW dominating the lands with 7 million subscribers I don't understand why they would feel threatened...personally I wouldn't mind to see that number cut in half for a better experience for all ;P
Sinq, 60 Night Elf Hunter Skullcrusher Alliance [RIP]
Xange, 57 Undead Mage Mage Executus Horde [RIP]
Currently Playing: I live in fear of the NDA police.
Yes, I have an agenda. I want a decent game to play not a half-arsed, unpolished wanna be something else of a game. The game is horrible in its current condition so why would I defend it? It's people who defend these kinds of lackluster performances that continue the tradition of pay to beta. Hater this, basher that, yeah whatever. If you like the game fine play it. But just because thousands of people see MAJOR problems with Vanguard doesn't mean it's some kind of conspiracy. Oh no, we better call Kiefer!
Eh, whatever. You can have youre crappy game, you deserve it. If you want to play the game like it is be my guest. But don't come cryin' to me when the fan base is shrinking because they promised gold and delivered an inferior product to the market place...
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
When I wrote threaten, I meant they bash this game being they might feel Vanguard will so as well down the line, that's all.
And btw I'm an ex swg pre-nge and yes I dislike SoE terribly. But I'm going to give this game a shot, a fair one. Meaning I won't make judgement based solely on it's beta if I was in it which I'm currently not. To judge it fairly, I believe you need to play it a few months after it's released as beta doesn't always put the entire game out or is it fully finished.
Last, I don't believe there are 7 million current subscribers, maybe that number is of all those who have played it at one time or another. Then again, judging from all the woW hate mail, you'd think there would be just as many people who dislike it.
Just an observation, that's all.
edit: I also want a good game as does everyone else but this isn't what I wrote about. Why write a thousand times the game is no good? What does anyone accomplish by doing this time after time? if you tried it and you don't like it, fine. Say so and move on, let those who want to play it do so.
But that's not what you see here. day in and day out you have the same people complaining about the same exact thing. Why? If a person trys the game doesn't like it and they comment on it, fine. But then if they continue to do so every time then obviously something is up because why stick around? Are they trying to convince everyone else the game isn't any good? Again, why?
Sure you can say we haven't paid a dime for this game, it's beta,etc,etc. This is where you are wrong, we have invested our time waiting and following and anticipating this game, we even gave our hopes to this game, something that is priceless. We are hurt and we are angry that we are regarded as moronic beings such as yourself who enjoy getting abused by the developers.
It is NOT WoW. If you're looking for the next WoW, I don't think it is it.
If you looking for something different than WoW, then you might find
it a refreshing change. I suspect that the majority who enjoyed EQ and
EQ II will enjoy it.
For me however, it lacks something. I tend to lose interest which each
character that I get past level 10. That doesn't mean you won't love it.
WHY? Because we wan't a decent game like they promised! And kissing butt isn't going to make that happen. I have been waiting for this game for a LONG time with very high hopes and what I downloaded was nothing short of a travesty. Waiting 14 hours to download a patch on cable was the first warning sign followed by silly gameplay. So why you ask? Because we actually care and actually want a good game to play!
Not everything in life is like a 24 episode...
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
There are certainly plenty of ex-SWG players that feel playing any game that SOE is associated with is tanamount treason. The fact that Brad et al. originally sold the game on notion that SOE screwed up EQ, they were wrong, we are right, follow-us to the MMO promise land of old, didn't help.
There are some other reasons to see a fair amount of negative hype (I'm not saying Vanguard deserves it necessarily, but why you might expect to see it):
1. Really High Expectations, particulary from the former EQ players;
2. Vanguard is targeted to more hard core MMO players when the rest of the industry led by WoW is heading casual. So if you are part of the herd, most likely Vanguard isn't going to be for you.
3. The game is technically very demanding and its not going to run extremely well on alot of rigs out there today. If WoW is the trend in the market by designing the lowest common demoniator in terms of PCs so more people can play WoW, Vanguard is again bucking the market trend.
So while I don't think WoW players would be threatend, if WoW brought them into the the market there are several reasons why they wouldn't like Vanguard.
I think there are many variables to the bashing.
One problem is an instant gratification society.
People got the beta, logged in, didn't 'get it' right away and logged out. It doesn't smash you in the face with its awesomeness, it unfolds and sneaks up on you if you start to delv into its features. This 'instant gratification' can be applied to a lot about the game. Because its in beta, there is effort involved to tweek settings since they are not final, people gave up rather than put effort. Because its beta, 100% of the content isn't in (although they are getting closer every day), people gave up rather than explore for what was out there, no hand holding.
Another problem is the 'Gimme what I'm due" attitude.
Because of problem one, problem two rears its head. Haters are quick to place blame in our society. If we aren't happy, its someone elses fault and we demand retribution. Because people weren't instantly gratified, they immediately wanted to place blame and came to the boards to vent. Although Vanguard didn't force anyone into beta, the beta haters feel that somehow Vanguard owes them something. People can't say 'the game isn't for me' they have to say, 'Sigil owes me'.
Adolescents
I believe the majority of the haters are between 13 and 18 years old. Because with a teenagers level of maturity, coupled with their susceptibility to the first two problems, we wind up with a lot of hate posts.
Misplaced rage
Its a sad thing to think that we have people so outraged about a computer game. It is as if their game play is the central focus of their life. They act as if the development companies is the government responsible for keeping them happy. This is a sad life. So this is a big faceless corporation that has done you wrong? Welcome to the club. Don't you think you should focus your rage at big faceless corporations who are committing actual crimes against humanity, rather than taking it out on a computer company? Bet Enron cost you a lot more than that open beta, and I bet you didn't register your distaste in forums around the world. Sorry haters, your posting and reposting about a game you aren't gonna play is just pathetic.
Misinformation
The 'seen that, done that' argument. Everyone keeps saying how this game copied every other game, forgetting that these guys invented the system. They created this model. This is Sigil's schtick, this kind of gameplay. It is the others who are copycats, this isn't understood.
Trying to save face
The hate really started the first day or two of beta. As improvements have been made to the game in almost every area the original posts bashed, the haters with the lowest self esteem hunkered down and readied themselves in defense. It doesn't matter how wrong they are, or are proved to be, the socially unstable will now never realise their mistake, all because they need to SAVE FACE. Like cornering a wolverine, they get louder and angrier the closer they come to being proven wrong.
7 million subscribers can't be wrong
Millions have played and enjoyed WoW. It was a solid game but didn't hold my interest due to lack of depth. Others could never play it for that reason. Millions of others love it with a passion, I can't expect they would crossover to a game like this one easily. Some people think this game will have fewer subscription numbers than WoW, I don't doubt that a bit. Millions won't be able to upgrade, millions won't understand a game like Vanguard, but I think a million or so will.
I'm taking my ball and going home
Imagine a guy in WoW playing on a 5000 series nvidia with a 1.8 processor and maybe 1g of ram. The guild is getting pretty tired of WoW and is starting the process of moving to Vanguard. The player in our scenario, tries beta, can't run it, cries on the boards that the game is Suxxor, likely centering on 'performance issues will bring this game down' rather than understanding why his feelings are really hurt. His friends are leaving and he can't go with them.
Or
Maybe he does have a screamin machine, but he's just topped out in WoW, getting his first epic gear and the guild is moving to Vanguard....this hater is more likely to talk about 'the broken promises that it hasn't delivered' or 'the art/gameplay is bland'
Fear of change
People say they want new and innovative but the truth is that people get very comfortable in their own ez chair. Topped out in your game, loads of loot, unstoppable armor....it's easy to see why some wouldn't want to climb that ladder all over again. It's hard to understand why people would choose to bash a game they have no intention of playing, soley because they like their own kingdom they've created for themselves. Don't worry, Vanguard will not disturb your realm. Unless you guild is leavin you behind....
Iam just pissed every dev team is promising anything and then the game is just garbage ... seriously which good MMO has come out this year ? I cant even count one at least for me, Iam just pissed by the devs already thats it.
Oh and for Vanguard, well I had this crap already with EQ2. Bad graphics but still needs a monster machine sorry but /lol or better /cry. That doesnt mean I cant run it, I have a good machine here but even at highest settings EQ2 / Vanguard doesnt look good, oh well Vanguard even worse than EQ2 in terms of graphics.
To be fair I cant tell about gameplay I just quit the game after 10min. cause I couldnt stand the graphics anymore. (yes I care alot about graphics, maybe not you its ok maybe the game is overall good and you will enjoy it but Iam done with it)
Just to throw my two cents into the hat. I'm not a fanboy, nor a hater, just an average gamer.
I've tried the Vanguard beta and thought it looked pretty interesting. "Tried" being key here because I, like many others, have a middle of the road machine and had a real hard time with all the lag. To the point that I ended up deleting it as wasted space.
I'm hoping that what I've read is true and that the release version will speed things up a bit since the background software won't be as dramatic. I've also decided that maybe it is time to upgrade a bit...maybe a new video card or some extra ram...with the hope that this will make the difference I need. I can't afford a whole new machine right now.
Like many others, I'm waiting until release to make any kind of final decision as to whether or not I'll actually buy this game...I'm hoping things get better, but if not, there are lots of other games that look promising on the horizon and I'm sure there's one out there to suit everyones play style and machine limitations.
There could be a hidden agenda by a thimble full of people, but WoW subscribers are unlikely for the reason mentioned. I played the game and while I am not playing at current(not playing any MMO with any regularity atm though), when I was playing, I did very much enjoy my time.
I think the reason so much bashing goes on is maybe too high of an expectation level from MMO fans, about Sigil. And as mentioned, by releaseing a freeplay beta client this unpolished(not unfinished because it is still entertaining to play), the fans, such as myself feel excited yet fustrated. The biggest case for the fustration being the server crashes(and today I experienced my first client crash). Cause ya take Sigil, with years and years of collective MMO developement and management skills + SOE server management experience and you should get a fairly smooth release, yes? Well then the monkeywrench known as profit steps in and plays its cards of marketing and shareholder expectation and voila, pile up on I95.
If ya think about it, if anyone has a hidden agenda, maybe it's Sigil. I think they know the game isn't ready for release and might have pushed it out the door sooner to make that point loud and clear and buy them a lil time. If you were a CEO of SOE and had Sigil management walk into your office with a couple stacks of DVDs full of bitter emails about the unreadiness of the game. You might think about waiting another couple months for some more polish and preening, than to ok the release of a game that has that much negative feedback.
I really don't see a ton of negativity so far though. The only major negative thing I have to say about it is the server stability. This far from release date and takeing into account the experience of the Sigil people, the stability is horrendous. And yes, I know it's freaking beta, don't gimme that crap. I have been playing MMOs a longggggg time(and have the gut and pale skin to prove it
). But if that is my most hated thing about this game then the devs have done a good job don't ya think? It's kinda funny, it's gotten to the point right now, on the second server atleast, where it's like we are all playing street hockey and yelling CARRRR!!!! when it crashes. Typical convo goes like this:
Player1 - Crash?
Player2 - Crash?
Player3 - Crash.
Player4 - Yup, there she blows!
Player5 - Wasn't me this time
Player 6 - I think it was me, I accidently clicked on something or moved or something.
But that being said, I will enjoy this game when it is stable and wish the devs continued, bug-fixing, game-tweaking, success.
Well I think the number one reason why people are complaining is really do to VSOH themselves. I believe that most people expected it to really be something other than what it was built up to be. I've followed this game for a long , long time and was anxiously awaiting its release. After reading post after posts on their official forums about this really being the Second Coming in the field of MMORPGS to the point of pure arrogence. But after playing the open Beta it is way different than what I had envisioned the game to be. Maybe I (we) was reading into to many official Vanguard post about this game or I (we) was being delusional thinking that this game was really gonna knock our socks off right off the bat. But, alas it didn't. At least for me it hasn't. Perhaps in the coming year it will but for now it doesn't for me.
On another note there are the ex SOE players that are really rejoicing in the fact that there are so many negative things being said about this game due to the simple fact that SOE is remotely involved with this package.
Hidden agenda? Yup that must be it. Its Elvis and the third gunman that stole an alien spaceship and is now trying to control peoples minds by posting negative thoughs about a not so popular game, to take over the world.
Or.. A lot of people think that the evolution of games and graphics should not step back five years each time a new MMO is released. Of course, I have nothing against the few people that think everything was better five years ago, and looked better and was less complicated, and probably tasted better too. BUt the majority of people think evolution should move forward, not backward.
BUt hey, I like your theory better. More believable and it sure sounds better, right?
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Threads like these never cease to amaze me. Bashing goes on in every forum on this site? Are there hidden agendas for every game listed? No.
Simple answer: some players take their games far too seriously. If you need evidence, watch what happens when certain games dip in the polls. Or, notice how many threads/posts are created by people with no interest in playing the game.
This site does little to foster constructive fan discussion.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry?
i think whats interesting is the near fanatical fervor that grips ppl on both sides of the argument. its almost religious in nature and for those of us with a less-than-religious mindset, its a bit disturbing. the emotional diatribes overwhelm the more objective posts and turn off a lot of ppl who are simply looking for rational, reasonable descriptions of peoples gaming experiences so that they can make a better decision on whether or not to purchase once it goes live.
[size=16pt]The Scions[/size]
~A Mortal Online Guild~
www.scionsonline.com
I think the true reasons is because it's not the game many people were promised so far, thats because it's being released about 6-12 months tooo early and isnt polished enough.
+ most people are mad over performance issues