See, I dont come on your Smurfy forum to burn down WoW, even though it is the most "cookie cutter", "mass marketed" garbage I have ever laid my hands on. Clearly developed with the lowest common denominator in mind and this is the reason it is so financially successful. You can pretend its hard all you like, it doesn't make it so. Getting to Lvl 60 in 2 weeks (I know people who have) is absolutely laughable. Keep your "hard" game and if you don't like Vanguard, go back to the WoW playground and leave us alone.
/Here endeth the lesson!
Newsflash artard : Vanguard has been touted and shilled on almost every single forum in existance to drive up initial interest in the game. They've pushed out free beta invites by the thousands, and yet how many people still play from Beta 2 or 3? It took me 4 days to hit 60 actually in WoW - but I guess you're a giant noob.
Vanguard is a joke, I hit level cap in beta 3 without even trying, the leveling pace is similar to EQ. i.e newbies will take a month, real players will take less than 2 weeks to cap out.
Let me repeat this : Leveling pace has nothing to do with how "hard" an MMO is. If you think Vanguard is "Hard" check out L2 - whose leveling grind makes Vanguard appear retarded, and kiddie like.
Vanguard was touted as the "Messiah" and the "First truly Revolutionary MMORPG".
Somewhere along the way this was changed to "evolutionary", and even then - I fail to see how it is evolutionary in the least sense. I already played EQ2 - I'd rather not play again tyvm.
it has to do more with the amount of flaming Brad/EQ fanboys/girls that attack everyone who dislikes something about vanguard. other than that the bashing seem to be consistent of that of any upcoming new game.
Absolutely untrue, people who make valid points are treated respectfully! Haters/People who only come here to grief are not!
See, I dont come on your Smurfy forum to burn down WoW, even though it is the most "cookie cutter", "mass marketed" garbage I have ever laid my hands on. Clearly developed with the lowest common denominator in mind and this is the reason it is so financially successful. You can pretend its hard all you like, it doesn't make it so. Getting to Lvl 60 in 2 weeks (I know people who have) is absolutely laughable. Keep your "hard" game and if you don't like Vanguard, go back to the WoW playground and leave us alone.
/Here endeth the lesson!
Newsflash artard : Vanguard has been touted and shilled on almost every single forum in existance to drive up initial interest in the game. They've pushed out free beta invites by the thousands, and yet how many people still play from Beta 2 or 3? It took me 4 days to hit 60 actually in WoW - but I guess you're a giant noob.
Vanguard is a joke, I hit level cap in beta 3 without even trying, the leveling pace is similar to EQ. i.e newbies will take a month, real players will take less than 2 weeks to cap out.
Let me repeat this : Leveling pace has nothing to do with how "hard" an MMO is. If you think Vanguard is "Hard" check out L2 - whose leveling grind makes Vanguard appear retarded, and kiddie like.
Vanguard was touted as the "Messiah" and the "First truly Revolutionary MMORPG".
Somewhere along the way this was changed to "evolutionary", and even then - I fail to see how it is evolutionary in the least sense. I already played EQ2 - I'd rather not play again tyvm.
I never said Vanguard was hard, I merely pointed out that WoW wasn't. Seriously mate, just leave, only an idiot would stay here and rag on a game they have no interest in and are not going to play. It's absolutely pathetic how you people hang around spitting your venom. PATHETIC!
EDIT - Playing it right now on a "real" system although Im not sure what that means? What's a fake system?
You've seen many games of this type come out, games similar to WoW and EQ2. People go try them, some like, some don't and they'll post it on these and other forums. But that's it, afterwards you really don't see much said about it, especially if it's bad reviews because those who didn't like the new game went back to their old ones, games like WoW or just moved on to another game. But!!! For some reason as can be seen here, you have lots and lots of negative feedback. Many from the same people, over and over again. So, me not being a fan of WoW I begin to think maybe, just maybe those who love and play WoW (not all but some) have been threaten or should I say, they saw Vanguard as being the game to surpass WoW and now they feel an obligation to put this game down as much as they can. Now, I'm not defending Vanguard as I haven't even played the beta. I've had problems downloading the beta cd, but thats another story. I'm not defending it but it just seems a bit much the same people coming in day after day to put this game down. I figured, if you tried it and you didn't like it, while you have evey right to express yourself as much as you like, you've already said your piece and nothing anyone says will keep this game down if in fact, this game is destined to be a good one in the future. I do agree on the game needing so much to play, it shouldn't be so. But as I've already said on another post, many of the new games coming out require as much and some even more then this one. I'm not flaming anyone and as I already stated I'm not defending this game. Whether I'm wrong or right I'm simply making and stating an observation.
There is an old sying in business about that: As long as customers complain they care.
I never said Vanguard was hard, I merely pointed out that WoW wasn't. Seriously mate, just leave, only an idiot would stay here and rag on a game they have no interest in and are not going to play. It's absolutely pathetic how you people hang around spitting your venom. PATHETIC!
EDIT - Playing it right now on a "real" system although Im not sure what that means? What's a fake system?
I'm not ragging on a game I have no interest in - I am informing others as to my opinion of the game, and telling it how it actually is from the eyes of a 8+ month Beta Tester.
Vanguard initially showed alot of promise, but slowly my guild and other friends gained from V:SOH just gradually stopped playing. Then they released the dreaded poll - to see why no one was logging in. After this is what ruined the game for me.
Anyone who likes Roleplaying or Tradeskills will love Vanguard, since those sections were done fairly well (tradeskills anyways). The tradeskill system is as rich as I've ever seen in another game, and the new diplomacy systems coming out (haggling, Diplomacy raiding, etc) seem to be fairly well thought out - but only time will tell if the execution is carried out properly.
A "real" system is one that isn't 100% new. I pull 30fps on medium (anything under medium makes the game look terrible) with alot of hiccups. Hopefully they complete the optimization before release.
Unfortunately the fact remains that the game is *not* ready for release, and really could do with another 2-3 months of hardcore polishing to fix alot of the rough spots, espescially within the lower level areas.
Good luck to all of those who play V:SOH - hopefully they take a look at EQ2 and don't make the same mistakes . I'll end up buying the game 5-6 months later after release if it goes how I think it will. Someday it could be a really great game, but currently it is just missing that hook, and unfortunately that "hook" is what keeps new players playing.
I never said Vanguard was hard, I merely pointed out that WoW wasn't. Seriously mate, just leave, only an idiot would stay here and rag on a game they have no interest in and are not going to play. It's absolutely pathetic how you people hang around spitting your venom. PATHETIC!
EDIT - Playing it right now on a "real" system although Im not sure what that means? What's a fake system?
I'm not ragging on a game I have no interest in - I am informing others as to my opinion of the game, and telling it how it actually is from the eyes of a 8+ month Beta Tester.
Vanguard initially showed alot of promise, but slowly my guild and other friends gained from V:SOH just gradually stopped playing. Then they released the dreaded poll - to see why no one was logging in. After this is what ruined the game for me.
Anyone who likes Roleplaying or Tradeskills will love Vanguard, since those sections were done fairly well (tradeskills anyways). The tradeskill system is as rich as I've ever seen in another game, and the new diplomacy systems coming out (haggling, Diplomacy raiding, etc) seem to be fairly well thought out - but only time will tell if the execution is carried out properly.
A "real" system is one that isn't 100% new. I pull 30fps on medium (anything under medium makes the game look terrible) with alot of hiccups. Hopefully they complete the optimization before release.
Unfortunately the fact remains that the game is *not* ready for release, and really could do with another 2-3 months of hardcore polishing to fix alot of the rough spots, espescially within the lower level areas.
Good luck to all of those who play V:SOH - hopefully they take a look at EQ2 and don't make the same mistakes . I'll end up buying the game 5-6 months later after release if it goes how I think it will. Someday it could be a really great game, but currently it is just missing that hook, and unfortunately that "hook" is what keeps new players playing.
My system is brand new (2 weeks old), runs sweet as! Hope you enjoy WoW and maybe give Vanguard another try later on!
Vanguard was hyped for a very long time, the Hari Kryshna like Vanbois regurgitated the Sigil mantra over and over on these forums for over 6 months.
Then Vanguard is rushed out, unfinished and doesn't come close to any of the hype. Many people are angry and want to know where their 3rd generation MMO is, where are all the new innovations that Vanguard is bringing to the MMO genre? What happened to all the unique features being touted by Sigil?
Seems I might have been right about vanguard combat being like watching paint dry whilst listening to a Leonard Cohen record!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
A hidden agenda to the bashing? Same could be said for the praising, which for the most part doesn't mention any bad points. Every MMO has good AND bad points, both must be mentioned in order to form a constructive arguement. At least alot of the bashing mentions whats good about the game, can't say the same about the lovers.
The problem with even giving Vanguard a benefit of the doubt is can you see yourself playing this for the long haul, the answer is no. I'd rather waste time not wasting time if that makes sense. All these games are a waste of time as much as just watching TV is, but there is a key difference. I know that if I invest time in the game I want it to be something I know I will be playing despite other mmorpgs since it will take so much effort to get shiny objects and level up,etc. I know I would not play Vanguard because I would drop it in a heartbeat for games like AOC or Warhammer, so why even bother starting it up? How do I know this well I've been in beta and even now I see that with even 5-6 months progress they can't ever change the one glaring flaw, the world is too damn big. Even with 3k people on one server once you get out of noobie land you are in a wasteland and even the mobs are so sparse, you travel for 5-20 minutes on average before you see any kind of npc outside of cities and noob start areas. There are even fewer players out in these areas, you will really get lost in this world, but you won't be playing, just getting lost. It feels like a 3D nature walk then anykind of meaningful mmorpg.
One other thing I have noticed allot on these forums is there is one particular member that likes to bash people about their PCs to answer anything they feel as negative comments towards Vanguard. They are acting like a 3 year old, not even a troll as a troll would make me laugh and does require skill to be a good one anyway, much like all things. They also like to go reporting posts that call them out on who they are, and continue to deficate upon this forum with the fervor of a japanese scat actress. I just can't stand how the community would put up with such an unintelligent individual that berates anyone who has the right to make any comment via freedom of speech by saying their machine is incapable of running the game, and they should go away.
A troll FullMetalAlc you mean like this guy Everyone who wants to know whats going on here on this site with the vanguard bashers look at my posting history on page 6 read the tread Wanna see something funny , strangly enough the poster of the short little conversation quckly let the thread die to keep it off the front page ya real good troll's Also notice the guys post counts and who isnt here bashing vanguard everyday sence this and up till than he was one of the biggest vanguard bashers on this site
I don't think it's about people bashing Vanguard for the sake of bashing it or because of some wierd fan boy loyalty to which ever MMO they hold closely to their hearts. It's because they expect more then what Vanguard or "insert game" currently offers if you notice you have both extremes of the spectrum on any MMO game that gets developed you have the people who claim the game is fantastic and has no faults and that any one who says otherwise is a noob or "insert offensive remark" etc and you have those who expect the game to live up to the hype surrounding it yet are sort of purplexed by what they have played and what people have been raving about.
Vanguard if you look at it and whats been written about it was billed as a 3rd gen MMO which would be ground breaking, I played it in beta and currently playing it now and I can tell you that it is neither of those it's not ground breaking and it's not original at all. What I expect from a 3rd gen MMO is to surpass previous incarnations of the MMO generation i.e. EQ, WOW, DAOC, AOC, SWG-PRE NGE, EQ2 etc by taking the depth, immersion, playability and satisfaction of being in a MMO world to a new level and raise the bar. However what we have is your run of the mill MMORPG nothing is new in the game and whats worse is its not got any polish and so is very rough around the edges.
I've listened to so many players billing up games saying this is fantastic this rocks etc but the games normally tank because they are far from what the "fan boys" (I use the term loosely here) paint it out to be. Vanguard won't fail but it won't be a massive success either if you're going to compare it to WoW. Fact is developers need to start coming up with original ideas now or every subsequent MMO is just going to be the same as the previous ones but with improved GFX and bits and bobs here and there.
So in short Vanguard isn't a terrible game it's an average game thats been built up by Hype by the developers and certain members of the gaming population to be something it isn't and the people who realise it are retaliating and saying otherwise and thats all that is happening. You can see this occuring in numerous other games just go back and have a look through the forums.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
I have a question about Vanguard. I am in beta but just dont log in now because the game runs like crap. The FPS are about 20 at the most and thats with settings real low and only if there is not any burning buildings around me. Also, the Charactor models (while they look great in the creation screen, kinda) dont even come close to comparing with EQ2, and the charactor animation is well, not even worth mentioning. While the animation thing, or lack of has nothing to do with my system, the charactor models might (though I doubt it, because they looked about the same before I dropped the settings when I still had everything on high.
My Comp:
Intel P4 3.0ghz
2gb DDR2 ram
GeForce 7600 256mg video ram
Cable Modem
Now before anyone jumps in here and says stop hating or whatever, let it be known, I will buy VSoH just because its going to be part of the Station Pass. Also, I am not a fan boy for anyone, I play the best game out when it comes out. I have no loyalty to any one game, I want to play the best one for my money. I played UO until EQ1 came out, played EQ1 all the way up until DAoC came out (one of the best ever in my opinion) Played DAoC until the release of EQ2, now I am playing EQ2 , and will until something better is out there. I thought that would be LoTR, I beta tested that game and was wrong, thats just AC2 with a little whip cream on it. Then I thought Vanguard had to be the one. And now I am thinking I am stuck waiting on AoC or something, which is ok because I do still enjoy EQ2.
Anyways, I want to try Vanguard a bit more but it simply runs to badly so I was wondering, is it my computer or will they code it better before launch ?
It's not your pc mate it's the gaming code that needs to be optimised and not to mention the servers have a massively high Latency at times so your going to be suffering lag aswell. The game at launch should run better then it currently is.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
First I'd like to say that I'm new to MMORGP.com forums. /greet
I'm currently playing WoW. I played EQ for years. I've also played EQ2, EvE, AO, AC, E&B and a few others. I recently got into the Vanguard beta. I'm not going to bash WoW or Vanguard. In it's current state I wouldn't pay for Vanguard. An earlier poster said that they would give VG a shot after 6 months or so. I think I will be doing the same.
Fundamental problems with the game engine (clipping, collision detection and graphic performance) and server issues make me think it's being rushed to GA. I'll come back to VG sometime after launch to give it a fair and objective try. Until then my MMO dollars will go elsewhere.
It's not your pc mate it's the gaming code that needs to be optimised and not to mention the servers have a massively high Latency at times so your going to be suffering lag aswell. The game at launch should run better then it currently is.
If you indeed have the PC you claim to have then you should not be having any performance issues whatsoever. You might try turning off SLI as it has been known to be problematic with Vanguard. My system is VERY similar to yours and I have no issues whatsoever (apart from occasional latency).
I'm not calling you a liar BTW, it's just that most people dont put their hardware config in their sig here. That's the kind of thing you do at guru3d etc, this is an MMO forum.
I have a question about Vanguard. I am in beta but just dont log in now because the game runs like crap. The FPS are about 20 at the most and thats with settings real low and only if there is not any burning buildings around me. Also, the Charactor models (while they look great in the creation screen, kinda) dont even come close to comparing with EQ2, and the charactor animation is well, not even worth mentioning. While the animation thing, or lack of has nothing to do with my system, the charactor models might (though I doubt it, because they looked about the same before I dropped the settings when I still had everything on high. My Comp: Intel P4 3.0ghz 2gb DDR2 ram GeForce 7600 256mg video ram Cable Modem Now before anyone jumps in here and says stop hating or whatever, let it be known, I will buy VSoH just because its going to be part of the Station Pass. Also, I am not a fan boy for anyone, I play the best game out when it comes out. I have no loyalty to any one game, I want to play the best one for my money. I played UO until EQ1 came out, played EQ1 all the way up until DAoC came out (one of the best ever in my opinion) Played DAoC until the release of EQ2, now I am playing EQ2 , and will until something better is out there. I thought that would be LoTR, I beta tested that game and was wrong, thats just AC2 with a little whip cream on it. Then I thought Vanguard had to be the one. And now I am thinking I am stuck waiting on AoC or something, which is ok because I do still enjoy EQ2. Anyways, I want to try Vanguard a bit more but it simply runs to badly so I was wondering, is it my computer or will they code it better before launch ?
no its not your computer. no it won't miraculously get better before launch.
and FPS is not the be all and end all in an MMO.. its consistent FPS with no server lag which leads to a smooth experience..
I played again a tiny bit last night and i must say they've improved the performance for me quite a bit, although the lag spikes and the huge stutter whenever you turn is very annoying (i.e. when you look in a new direction, it hangs for a few secs). but on Balanced, even in the mekalia city, i was getting 25-30 fps on balanced, 15-25 fps on High Quality (usually around the 16-19 mark). Specs as follows (built this at least 18 months ago i'd say):
P4 3.4ghz (Never ever getting one of these again, not only do they not perform as well as my old AMD's for games, but that pos fan/heatsink is diaboloical) 1.5gb Corsair 533mhz DDR-2 Asus P5GD2 Deluxe Mobo GeForce 6600GT 256mb And i think i got a baracuda 250gb HDD 7,200, or a western digital, can't remember heh.
Not that great by todays standards, especially as the memory isn't dual channelled (doh!).
I'm getting into the game more and will buy it at release, but the people saying it's amazing are just fanning flames i think or are just over-hyped.
I played again a tiny bit last night and i must say they've improved the performance for me quite a bit, although the lag spikes and the huge stutter whenever you turn is very annoying (i.e. when you look in a new direction, it hangs for a few secs). but on Balanced, even in the mekalia city, i was getting 25-30 fps on balanced, 15-25 fps on High Quality (usually around the 16-19 mark). Specs as follows (built this at least 18 months ago i'd say): P4 3.4ghz (Never ever getting one of these again, not only do they not perform as well as my old AMD's for games, but that pos fan/heatsink is diaboloical)
1.5gb Corsair 533mhz DDR-2
Asus P5GD2 Deluxe Mobo
GeForce 6600GT 256mb
And i think i got a baracuda 250gb HDD 7,200, or a western digital, can't remember heh. Not that great by todays standards, especially as the memory isn't dual channelled (doh!). I'm getting into the game more and will buy it at release, but the people saying it's amazing are just fanning flames i think or are just over-hyped.
Some people do like it. Just because they dont share your opinion doesnt make their opinion equivalent to "fanning flames". Opinions are always subjective. You are, of course, entitled to yours. Let others have theirs without labelling them "Fanboys" etc.
These people, however, are using these opinions to counter any bad comments made on the game. In order to do this really, they should at least back it up with reasons, as the haters are always asked to do.
People are enttled to say they really enjoy it, but saying its the best thing ever because of that, aswell as rubbishing any bad comment made, isn't really fair unless it's justified, else it's just adding to an argument.
These people, however, are using these opinions to counter any bad comments made on the game. In order to do this really, they should at least back it up with reasons, as the haters are always asked to do. People are enttled to say they really enjoy it, but saying its the best thing ever because of that, aswell as rubbishing any bad comment made, isn't really fair unless it's justified, else it's just adding to an argument.
No, I don't think thats the case at all. I can back up any positive things I have to say about Vanguard based on MY experiences. There is a very big difference between someone who has concerns about the game (I have some of my own) and people who blatently spew venom filled hate just because they can. There really shouldn't be much of an argument in any case, if someone doesn't like it, they should voice their opinions and criticisms, but it's when it escalates and they derail threads with nonsense etc, thats when I object. Put simply, if whoever doesn't think it is for them, say so and then move on. There is no need to stay here spouting the same negatvity every day, thats just common sense.
That is true. What is more annoying for me however is when fans compare this unreleased games to current, highly successful, complete, released games out atm. Peopl saying this is better than WoW in everyway are, like i said, using a tinted view.
If a player new to MMO's played both Vanguard and WoW, he may be inclined to choose vanguard for the art style, but in no way in terms of the game. It's why every Magazine and website rated WoW 90%+ or so, why it has 8 million players and why everyone here played it in the first place to even compare it.
People love this game because it's the best of a bad bunch and others get bored fast. When people cap and get bored of this, they will say "Age of Conan is so much better than Vanguard, you are so misinformed, i capped like 3 chars on vanguard, it's a kiddy game"
I personally like it, but from a neutral standpoint, that's the stupidity of some of the topics, but again, i agree, people who flame or praise a game just for the heck of it don't need to be here.
That is true. What is more annoying for me however is when fans compare this unreleased games to current, highly successful, complete, released games out atm. Peopl saying this is better than WoW in everyway are, like i said, using a tinted view. If a player new to MMO's played both Vanguard and WoW, he may be inclined to choose vanguard for the art style, but in no way in terms of the game. It's why every Magazine and website rated WoW 90%+ or so, why it has 8 million players and why everyone here played it in the first place to even compare it. People love this game because it's the best of a bad bunch and others get bored fast. When people cap and get bored of this, they will say "Age of Conan is so much better than Vanguard, you are so misinformed, i capped like 3 chars on vanguard, it's a kiddy game" I personally like it, but from a neutral standpoint, that's the stupidity of some of the topics, but again, i agree, people who flame or praise a game just for the heck of it don't need to be here.
I try to be objective and see Vanguard as somewhat of a work in progress TBH. In a great many ways it shares similarities with the ORIGINAL SWG (Pre-CU). SWG was very BETA when it hit the market. I was on the BETA and I remember being very surprised that they were releasing it in the state it was in. Still, until they totally killed it trying to turn it into something it wasnt it was HANDS DOWN the best MMO I've ever played alongside EQ1.
There are problems with Vanguard, there is no doubt of that, but I think they will be ironed out. Some of them will still be there at launch but TBH, thats the case with every MMO. Some people accuse it of having no soul but I don't think BETAs ever do. No one is really sticking to one character and there is a lot of experimenting going on. I think when it's released, the real community will take root and people will start to develop long term characters, alliances etc.
I think its always very improtant to remember that everyone's opinion is subjective. We all have an opinion about the game and negative opinions are fine in my eyes. After all, I dont like WoW particularly, but I wont spam WoW players with my view point. I've said it once, I don't play it and I don't frequent the WoW forums.
Like you, I find the constant comparisons irksome. For the most part a game that is still in BETA (Vanguard) is being compared to games that are 2 years old or more (EQ2, WoW). No one game is in effect "better" than another. It depends on what you are looking for in an MMO. That is where you base your choices on what you play. If whoever decides Vanguard is for them, fantastic and if they don't, they should make their opinions known in a constructive fashion and move on.
After reading some more of the post here, I decided to toss my opinion in. In order to help everyone understand my view point before I post, understand this:
I hate WoW, I tried really hard to like it because I love the first two Warcraft single player games and since I am a big MMORPG fan I thought this should be great. however, the graphics style they chose to go with simply causes me pain. It may be a great game (I doubt it) but the look and feel of the game simply kept me from being able to get into it.
Graphics are not everything, a game must have substance but that does not mean you should look for a game with horrible graphics. I played UO for years and loved it, then switched to EQ1, then DAoC and now EQ2. I think each of those games, in their own times had nice looking graphics as well as alot of substance. EQ2, as I am playing it now, has incredible graphics and the game play both solo and group/raid is very good (my opinion). So I am not trying to find a game to replace it, but at the same time, I love the new game feeling you get when you start off on a new experience. Not to mention I want to spend my money on the best game out, not keep playing a game that is no longer the best, out of some strange since of loyalty.
With all that said, Vanguard terrain looks awsome, they did a great job on that, the charactor models look great, as long as you dont move. but the charactor movement and, well, all the animations are simply awful. combine that with the unplayable lag/whatever it is, I dont see anything to pull me from EQ2 (though I will buy VSoH because its on the station pass). Everything I have read about Vangiard feature wise sounds really good, if it all turns out right, so I am hopeful, but my beta experience has been lacking to say the least.
You've seen many games of this type come out, games similar to WoW and EQ2. People go try them, some like, some don't and they'll post it on these and other forums. But that's it, afterwards you really don't see much said about it, especially if it's bad reviews because those who didn't like the new game went back to their old ones, games like WoW or just moved on to another game. But!!! For some reason as can be seen here, you have lots and lots of negative feedback. Many from the same people, over and over again. So, me not being a fan of WoW I begin to think maybe, just maybe those who love and play WoW (not all but some) have been threaten or should I say, they saw Vanguard as being the game to surpass WoW and now they feel an obligation to put this game down as much as they can. Now, I'm not defending Vanguard as I haven't even played the beta. I've had problems downloading the beta cd, but thats another story. I'm not defending it but it just seems a bit much the same people coming in day after day to put this game down. I figured, if you tried it and you didn't like it, while you have evey right to express yourself as much as you like, you've already said your piece and nothing anyone says will keep this game down if in fact, this game is destined to be a good one in the future. I do agree on the game needing so much to play, it shouldn't be so. But as I've already said on another post, many of the new games coming out require as much and some even more then this one. I'm not flaming anyone and as I already stated I'm not defending this game. Whether I'm wrong or right I'm simply making and stating an observation.
God god.. I have as much reason to say wow supporting the game without even testing it? Hmm must be a SOE employee board hype troll.
I don'y play WoW, I did however play EQ for 5 years. I did Play EQ2 and I did play SWG. On top of that I had a rather good time working as a guide in EQ for 5+ years.
The reason I hate Vanguard, is because the developers are liars, incompetent, and uninspired... period.
The game is crap, the development is substandard, the code is abysmal, and anyone worth a damn when the project started jumped ship over a year ago. Even the original devs knew the game was crap. You are now dealing with the replacement devs. You know the 15 year olds who up until a year ago were flipping burgers at McDonalds.. couple of lies on their applications and they developing a game. Hell why not, no real developers wanted it.
Personally I just feel sorry for people like the guy in the other thread who believes he doesnt have to grind monsters, he buys the lies that he can play as a diplomat and explore the whole game without having to pick up a sword.
Yea well good luck with that. Although considering none of the content past level 20 is in, and most that is isn't working...75% of the zones are closed, shrug I guess it is true he can explore the whole world as a diplomat. what litte there is to explore.
It just really tweaks my buttons that once again a developer can spin the hype, lie their ass off, and package up a pos in pretty wrapping and by fellow gamers fall all over themselves salivating at the mouth to get hold of it.
Oh well it's your money... on no scratch that... it's SOE's money.
Comments
See, I dont come on your Smurfy forum to burn down WoW, even though it is the most "cookie cutter", "mass marketed" garbage I have ever laid my hands on. Clearly developed with the lowest common denominator in mind and this is the reason it is so financially successful. You can pretend its hard all you like, it doesn't make it so. Getting to Lvl 60 in 2 weeks (I know people who have) is absolutely laughable. Keep your "hard" game and if you don't like Vanguard, go back to the WoW playground and leave us alone.
/Here endeth the lesson!
Newsflash artard : Vanguard has been touted and shilled on almost every single forum in existance to drive up initial interest in the game. They've pushed out free beta invites by the thousands, and yet how many people still play from Beta 2 or 3? It took me 4 days to hit 60 actually in WoW - but I guess you're a giant noob.
Vanguard is a joke, I hit level cap in beta 3 without even trying, the leveling pace is similar to EQ. i.e newbies will take a month, real players will take less than 2 weeks to cap out.
Let me repeat this : Leveling pace has nothing to do with how "hard" an MMO is. If you think Vanguard is "Hard" check out L2 - whose leveling grind makes Vanguard appear retarded, and kiddie like.
Vanguard was touted as the "Messiah" and the "First truly Revolutionary MMORPG".
Somewhere along the way this was changed to "evolutionary", and even then - I fail to see how it is evolutionary in the least sense. I already played EQ2 - I'd rather not play again tyvm.
Absolutely untrue, people who make valid points are treated respectfully! Haters/People who only come here to grief are not!
Absolutely untrue, people who make valid points are treated respectfully! Haters/People who only come here to grief are not!
I made valid points - you have yet to refute any.Have you even played the game? Or actually seen it played on a real system?
See, I dont come on your Smurfy forum to burn down WoW, even though it is the most "cookie cutter", "mass marketed" garbage I have ever laid my hands on. Clearly developed with the lowest common denominator in mind and this is the reason it is so financially successful. You can pretend its hard all you like, it doesn't make it so. Getting to Lvl 60 in 2 weeks (I know people who have) is absolutely laughable. Keep your "hard" game and if you don't like Vanguard, go back to the WoW playground and leave us alone.
/Here endeth the lesson!
Newsflash artard : Vanguard has been touted and shilled on almost every single forum in existance to drive up initial interest in the game. They've pushed out free beta invites by the thousands, and yet how many people still play from Beta 2 or 3? It took me 4 days to hit 60 actually in WoW - but I guess you're a giant noob.
Vanguard is a joke, I hit level cap in beta 3 without even trying, the leveling pace is similar to EQ. i.e newbies will take a month, real players will take less than 2 weeks to cap out.
Let me repeat this : Leveling pace has nothing to do with how "hard" an MMO is. If you think Vanguard is "Hard" check out L2 - whose leveling grind makes Vanguard appear retarded, and kiddie like.
Vanguard was touted as the "Messiah" and the "First truly Revolutionary MMORPG".
Somewhere along the way this was changed to "evolutionary", and even then - I fail to see how it is evolutionary in the least sense. I already played EQ2 - I'd rather not play again tyvm.
I never said Vanguard was hard, I merely pointed out that WoW wasn't. Seriously mate, just leave, only an idiot would stay here and rag on a game they have no interest in and are not going to play. It's absolutely pathetic how you people hang around spitting your venom. PATHETIC!
EDIT - Playing it right now on a "real" system although Im not sure what that means? What's a fake system?
There is an old sying in business about that: As long as customers complain they care.
I never said Vanguard was hard, I merely pointed out that WoW wasn't. Seriously mate, just leave, only an idiot would stay here and rag on a game they have no interest in and are not going to play. It's absolutely pathetic how you people hang around spitting your venom. PATHETIC!
EDIT - Playing it right now on a "real" system although Im not sure what that means? What's a fake system?
I'm not ragging on a game I have no interest in - I am informing others as to my opinion of the game, and telling it how it actually is from the eyes of a 8+ month Beta Tester.
Vanguard initially showed alot of promise, but slowly my guild and other friends gained from V:SOH just gradually stopped playing. Then they released the dreaded poll - to see why no one was logging in. After this is what ruined the game for me.
Anyone who likes Roleplaying or Tradeskills will love Vanguard, since those sections were done fairly well (tradeskills anyways). The tradeskill system is as rich as I've ever seen in another game, and the new diplomacy systems coming out (haggling, Diplomacy raiding, etc) seem to be fairly well thought out - but only time will tell if the execution is carried out properly.
A "real" system is one that isn't 100% new. I pull 30fps on medium (anything under medium makes the game look terrible) with alot of hiccups. Hopefully they complete the optimization before release.
Unfortunately the fact remains that the game is *not* ready for release, and really could do with another 2-3 months of hardcore polishing to fix alot of the rough spots, espescially within the lower level areas.
Good luck to all of those who play V:SOH - hopefully they take a look at EQ2 and don't make the same mistakes
I never said Vanguard was hard, I merely pointed out that WoW wasn't. Seriously mate, just leave, only an idiot would stay here and rag on a game they have no interest in and are not going to play. It's absolutely pathetic how you people hang around spitting your venom. PATHETIC!
EDIT - Playing it right now on a "real" system although Im not sure what that means? What's a fake system?
I'm not ragging on a game I have no interest in - I am informing others as to my opinion of the game, and telling it how it actually is from the eyes of a 8+ month Beta Tester.
Vanguard initially showed alot of promise, but slowly my guild and other friends gained from V:SOH just gradually stopped playing. Then they released the dreaded poll - to see why no one was logging in. After this is what ruined the game for me.
Anyone who likes Roleplaying or Tradeskills will love Vanguard, since those sections were done fairly well (tradeskills anyways). The tradeskill system is as rich as I've ever seen in another game, and the new diplomacy systems coming out (haggling, Diplomacy raiding, etc) seem to be fairly well thought out - but only time will tell if the execution is carried out properly.
A "real" system is one that isn't 100% new. I pull 30fps on medium (anything under medium makes the game look terrible) with alot of hiccups. Hopefully they complete the optimization before release.
Unfortunately the fact remains that the game is *not* ready for release, and really could do with another 2-3 months of hardcore polishing to fix alot of the rough spots, espescially within the lower level areas.
Good luck to all of those who play V:SOH - hopefully they take a look at EQ2 and don't make the same mistakes
My system is brand new (2 weeks old), runs sweet as! Hope you enjoy WoW and maybe give Vanguard another try later on!
Vanguard was hyped for a very long time, the Hari Kryshna like Vanbois regurgitated the Sigil mantra over and over on these forums for over 6 months.
Then Vanguard is rushed out, unfinished and doesn't come close to any of the hype. Many people are angry and want to know where their 3rd generation MMO is, where are all the new innovations that Vanguard is bringing to the MMO genre? What happened to all the unique features being touted by Sigil?
Seems I might have been right about vanguard combat being like watching paint dry whilst listening to a Leonard Cohen record!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
A hidden agenda to the bashing? Same could be said for the praising, which for the most part doesn't mention any bad points. Every MMO has good AND bad points, both must be mentioned in order to form a constructive arguement. At least alot of the bashing mentions whats good about the game, can't say the same about the lovers.
I don't think it's about people bashing Vanguard for the sake of bashing it or because of some wierd fan boy loyalty to which ever MMO they hold closely to their hearts. It's because they expect more then what Vanguard or "insert game" currently offers if you notice you have both extremes of the spectrum on any MMO game that gets developed you have the people who claim the game is fantastic and has no faults and that any one who says otherwise is a noob or "insert offensive remark" etc and you have those who expect the game to live up to the hype surrounding it yet are sort of purplexed by what they have played and what people have been raving about.
Vanguard if you look at it and whats been written about it was billed as a 3rd gen MMO which would be ground breaking, I played it in beta and currently playing it now and I can tell you that it is neither of those it's not ground breaking and it's not original at all. What I expect from a 3rd gen MMO is to surpass previous incarnations of the MMO generation i.e. EQ, WOW, DAOC, AOC, SWG-PRE NGE, EQ2 etc by taking the depth, immersion, playability and satisfaction of being in a MMO world to a new level and raise the bar. However what we have is your run of the mill MMORPG nothing is new in the game and whats worse is its not got any polish and so is very rough around the edges.
I've listened to so many players billing up games saying this is fantastic this rocks etc but the games normally tank because they are far from what the "fan boys" (I use the term loosely here) paint it out to be. Vanguard won't fail but it won't be a massive success either if you're going to compare it to WoW. Fact is developers need to start coming up with original ideas now or every subsequent MMO is just going to be the same as the previous ones but with improved GFX and bits and bobs here and there.
So in short Vanguard isn't a terrible game it's an average game thats been built up by Hype by the developers and certain members of the gaming population to be something it isn't and the people who realise it are retaliating and saying otherwise and thats all that is happening. You can see this occuring in numerous other games just go back and have a look through the forums.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
I have a question about Vanguard. I am in beta but just dont log in now because the game runs like crap. The FPS are about 20 at the most and thats with settings real low and only if there is not any burning buildings around me. Also, the Charactor models (while they look great in the creation screen, kinda) dont even come close to comparing with EQ2, and the charactor animation is well, not even worth mentioning. While the animation thing, or lack of has nothing to do with my system, the charactor models might (though I doubt it, because they looked about the same before I dropped the settings when I still had everything on high.
My Comp:
Intel P4 3.0ghz
2gb DDR2 ram
GeForce 7600 256mg video ram
Cable Modem
Now before anyone jumps in here and says stop hating or whatever, let it be known, I will buy VSoH just because its going to be part of the Station Pass. Also, I am not a fan boy for anyone, I play the best game out when it comes out. I have no loyalty to any one game, I want to play the best one for my money. I played UO until EQ1 came out, played EQ1 all the way up until DAoC came out (one of the best ever in my opinion) Played DAoC until the release of EQ2, now I am playing EQ2 , and will until something better is out there. I thought that would be LoTR, I beta tested that game and was wrong, thats just AC2 with a little whip cream on it. Then I thought Vanguard had to be the one. And now I am thinking I am stuck waiting on AoC or something, which is ok because I do still enjoy EQ2.
Anyways, I want to try Vanguard a bit more but it simply runs to badly so I was wondering, is it my computer or will they code it better before launch ?
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
I'm currently playing WoW. I played EQ for years. I've also played EQ2, EvE, AO, AC, E&B and a few others. I recently got into the Vanguard beta. I'm not going to bash WoW or Vanguard. In it's current state I wouldn't pay for Vanguard. An earlier poster said that they would give VG a shot after 6 months or so. I think I will be doing the same.
Fundamental problems with the game engine (clipping, collision detection and graphic performance) and server issues make me think it's being rushed to GA. I'll come back to VG sometime after launch to give it a fair and objective try. Until then my MMO dollars will go elsewhere.
If you indeed have the PC you claim to have then you should not be having any performance issues whatsoever. You might try turning off SLI as it has been known to be problematic with Vanguard. My system is VERY similar to yours and I have no issues whatsoever (apart from occasional latency).
I'm not calling you a liar BTW, it's just that most people dont put their hardware config in their sig here. That's the kind of thing you do at guru3d etc, this is an MMO forum.
no its not your computer. no it won't miraculously get better before launch.
and FPS is not the be all and end all in an MMO.. its consistent FPS with no server lag which leads to a smooth experience..
I played again a tiny bit last night and i must say they've improved the performance for me quite a bit, although the lag spikes and the huge stutter whenever you turn is very annoying (i.e. when you look in a new direction, it hangs for a few secs). but on Balanced, even in the mekalia city, i was getting 25-30 fps on balanced, 15-25 fps on High Quality (usually around the 16-19 mark). Specs as follows (built this at least 18 months ago i'd say):
P4 3.4ghz (Never ever getting one of these again, not only do they not perform as well as my old AMD's for games, but that pos fan/heatsink is diaboloical)
1.5gb Corsair 533mhz DDR-2
Asus P5GD2 Deluxe Mobo
GeForce 6600GT 256mb
And i think i got a baracuda 250gb HDD 7,200, or a western digital, can't remember heh.
Not that great by todays standards, especially as the memory isn't dual channelled (doh!).
I'm getting into the game more and will buy it at release, but the people saying it's amazing are just fanning flames i think or are just over-hyped.
It's called common sense.
These people, however, are using these opinions to counter any bad comments made on the game. In order to do this really, they should at least back it up with reasons, as the haters are always asked to do.
People are enttled to say they really enjoy it, but saying its the best thing ever because of that, aswell as rubbishing any bad comment made, isn't really fair unless it's justified, else it's just adding to an argument.
That is true. What is more annoying for me however is when fans compare this unreleased games to current, highly successful, complete, released games out atm. Peopl saying this is better than WoW in everyway are, like i said, using a tinted view.
If a player new to MMO's played both Vanguard and WoW, he may be inclined to choose vanguard for the art style, but in no way in terms of the game. It's why every Magazine and website rated WoW 90%+ or so, why it has 8 million players and why everyone here played it in the first place to even compare it.
People love this game because it's the best of a bad bunch and others get bored fast. When people cap and get bored of this, they will say "Age of Conan is so much better than Vanguard, you are so misinformed, i capped like 3 chars on vanguard, it's a kiddy game"
I personally like it, but from a neutral standpoint, that's the stupidity of some of the topics, but again, i agree, people who flame or praise a game just for the heck of it don't need to be here.
I try to be objective and see Vanguard as somewhat of a work in progress TBH. In a great many ways it shares similarities with the ORIGINAL SWG (Pre-CU). SWG was very BETA when it hit the market. I was on the BETA and I remember being very surprised that they were releasing it in the state it was in. Still, until they totally killed it trying to turn it into something it wasnt it was HANDS DOWN the best MMO I've ever played alongside EQ1.
There are problems with Vanguard, there is no doubt of that, but I think they will be ironed out. Some of them will still be there at launch but TBH, thats the case with every MMO. Some people accuse it of having no soul but I don't think BETAs ever do. No one is really sticking to one character and there is a lot of experimenting going on. I think when it's released, the real community will take root and people will start to develop long term characters, alliances etc.
I think its always very improtant to remember that everyone's opinion is subjective. We all have an opinion about the game and negative opinions are fine in my eyes. After all, I dont like WoW particularly, but I wont spam WoW players with my view point. I've said it once, I don't play it and I don't frequent the WoW forums.
Like you, I find the constant comparisons irksome. For the most part a game that is still in BETA (Vanguard) is being compared to games that are 2 years old or more (EQ2, WoW). No one game is in effect "better" than another. It depends on what you are looking for in an MMO. That is where you base your choices on what you play. If whoever decides Vanguard is for them, fantastic and if they don't, they should make their opinions known in a constructive fashion and move on.
Cheers
After reading some more of the post here, I decided to toss my opinion in. In order to help everyone understand my view point before I post, understand this:
I hate WoW, I tried really hard to like it because I love the first two Warcraft single player games and since I am a big MMORPG fan I thought this should be great. however, the graphics style they chose to go with simply causes me pain. It may be a great game (I doubt it) but the look and feel of the game simply kept me from being able to get into it.
Graphics are not everything, a game must have substance but that does not mean you should look for a game with horrible graphics. I played UO for years and loved it, then switched to EQ1, then DAoC and now EQ2. I think each of those games, in their own times had nice looking graphics as well as alot of substance. EQ2, as I am playing it now, has incredible graphics and the game play both solo and group/raid is very good (my opinion). So I am not trying to find a game to replace it, but at the same time, I love the new game feeling you get when you start off on a new experience. Not to mention I want to spend my money on the best game out, not keep playing a game that is no longer the best, out of some strange since of loyalty.
With all that said, Vanguard terrain looks awsome, they did a great job on that, the charactor models look great, as long as you dont move. but the charactor movement and, well, all the animations are simply awful. combine that with the unplayable lag/whatever it is, I dont see anything to pull me from EQ2 (though I will buy VSoH because its on the station pass). Everything I have read about Vangiard feature wise sounds really good, if it all turns out right, so I am hopeful, but my beta experience has been lacking to say the least.
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
God god.. I have as much reason to say wow supporting the game without even testing it? Hmm must be a SOE employee board hype troll.
I don'y play WoW, I did however play EQ for 5 years. I did Play EQ2 and I did play SWG. On top of that I had a rather good time working as a guide in EQ for 5+ years.
The reason I hate Vanguard, is because the developers are liars, incompetent, and uninspired... period.
The game is crap, the development is substandard, the code is abysmal, and anyone worth a damn when the project started jumped ship over a year ago. Even the original devs knew the game was crap. You are now dealing with the replacement devs. You know the 15 year olds who up until a year ago were flipping burgers at McDonalds.. couple of lies on their applications and they developing a game. Hell why not, no real developers wanted it.
Personally I just feel sorry for people like the guy in the other thread who believes he doesnt have to grind monsters, he buys the lies that he can play as a diplomat and explore the whole game without having to pick up a sword.
Yea well good luck with that. Although considering none of the content past level 20 is in, and most that is isn't working...75% of the zones are closed, shrug I guess it is true he can explore the whole world as a diplomat. what litte there is to explore.
It just really tweaks my buttons that once again a developer can spin the hype, lie their ass off, and package up a pos in pretty wrapping and by fellow gamers fall all over themselves salivating at the mouth to get hold of it.
Oh well it's your money... on no scratch that... it's SOE's money.