Well I still think the majority of the blame for SWG is with Lucas Arts. EQ2 turned around and became a very good game. My experiences in the Vanguard beta were positive and nothing at all like SWG. Vanguard will be around for quite awhile I think so when people decide to let go of their SOEphobia they can try it out.
Assuming a game is bad before it releases just seems somewhat narrowminded.
You can see why Sigil wanted to develop a game outside of SOE interferance.
You can see why they have total control of the game development.
You can see why...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Well I still think the majority of the blame for SWG is with Lucas Arts. EQ2 turned around and became a very good game. My experiences in the Vanguard beta were positive and nothing at all like SWG. Vanguard will be around for quite awhile I think so when people decide to let go of their SOEphobia they can try it out.
Assuming a game is bad before it releases just seems somewhat narrowminded.
You're free to blame LucasArts for everything that went wrong with SWG, even though it goes against everything we have been told by SOE employees (both the CU and the NGE were concieved and developed by SOE, according to SOE employees). The only reason EQ2 didn't have an NGE of its own was because of the NGE's failure and the resulting cancelled subscriptions. EQ2 has had severe changes made to the core of the game (it went from an attempted EQ clone to an attempted WoW clone), they just made those changes slowly over time instead of dumping themunfinished on the EQ2 playerbase. I quite enjoyed EQ2 and would like to go back and play it again. As long as SOE continues to behave in an unprofessional and hostile manner towards their customers, I'm not spending a single dime on any product that SOE will earn revenue from. Vanguard could very well be the greates game in the world, but since SOE is making money from it, I'm not going to be trying it. It has nothing to do with assuming the game is bad, it has everything to do with not wanting to give money to SOE.
I would rather see what happens the first 6 months before they get my dime.
I just do NOT trust them and base that on track record, history, common sense and some good ole fashion "OPEN EYES" type thought.
I just want to see if they get involved.... I just think they will at some point.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I would rather see what happens the first 6 months before they get my dime. I just do NOT trust them and base that on track record, history, common sense and some good ole fashion "OPEN EYES" type thought. I just want to see if they get involved.... I just think they will at some point.
QFE Same here, Vanhuard looks to have a lot of good things on paper, But because of SOE name behind it, I won't touch it.
SoE on the box would by itself stop me getting it IF I actuelly liked the look of the game. I'm not into level class loot grinds though so I have lots of other reasons not to buy/play Vanguard.
Vanguard will be around for quite awhile I think so when people decide to let go of their SOEphobia they can try it out.
Assuming a game is bad before it releases just seems somewhat narrowminded.
SOEphobia? Oh yeah its so unreasonible to dislike and boycott a company that has show in the past that they don't care about their playerbase and that they will lie to and try to trick every last cent they can out of you. SoE admited they knew they were changing SWG in ways the current player would not like and they certainly wouldn't have offer the refund on ToOW unless they were in a hard place legaly for annouceing the NGE a full day after ToOWs offical release.
Assuming a company with that track record of lack of respect for their customers and dishonest buisness practices will change is nieve.
I am struggling with this question now. I thought I would try to forgive SOE, at least enough to play a game like Vanguard that they claim at least they have no creative control. However, the reality of that really hit home when I tried beta and that same despicable SOE logo we saw in SWG popped up during loading and I was reminded of the way they treated us.
Anyone with hindsight would wait till at least the 6 month mark before commiting themselves to putting any money into vanguard, it is $oe im wary of not sigil, give it time and im sure they pull a rabbit out the hat like in swg.
Despite what soe says i doubt they dont have influence over the game, bullshit it has to run on there servers, wont be long before there calling the shots for an nge.
I'd never play another game by SOE no matter what it looked like. They milk as much money out of you as they can and don't care anything about their customers.
You have a problem with how wonderful the EQ2 launch was compared to the WoW launch? SOE didn't have to worry about pointless things like a surge of customers flooding the EQ2 servers, in fact they were prepared for EQ2's launch so well that a few months later they were able to merge the game servers. Blizzard is so pathetic that they still, a couple years after WoW's launch, have to add more game servers.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually equating EQ2's underwhelming amount of people playing the game at launch as a good thing? Or the underwhelming amount of people currently playing it as just being "selective"? Or merging the servers as a sign of success? Or WoW's giantic playerbase that grows by leaps and bounds as unsuccessful?
Sorry.. my sarcasm detector wasn't going off. Either you are Pythonesque in your deadpan, or you really believe that. If it's the former, well played. If it's the latter, please don't use any sharp objects.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Vanguard will be around for quite awhile I think so when people decide to let go of their SOEphobia they can try it out.
Assuming a game is bad before it releases just seems somewhat narrowminded.
SOEphobia? Oh yeah its so unreasonible to dislike and boycott a company that has show in the past that they don't care about their playerbase and that they will lie to and try to trick every last cent they can out of you. SoE admited they knew they were changing SWG in ways the current player would not like and they certainly wouldn't have offer the refund on ToOW unless they were in a hard place legaly for annouceing the NGE a full day after ToOWs offical release.
Assuming a company with that track record of lack of respect for their customers and dishonest buisness practices will change is nieve.
Right.. It's like saying that the next Justin Timberlake album won't be another album of him sucking and pretending he was black, even though EVERY other album was.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I hope vangaurd can stay as is,creativly far far away from soe. I truelly do wish this game success and maybe months down the line I might give it a go If I can convince myself soe are not going to touch.
My spare time is very sparse so I will chose what I spend it on mutch more carefully in future.
I fully intend to give Vanguard at least my first 30 day free period to prove its worth to me. If It cannot do that, or if I cannot at least be well on an enjoyable road to finding my niche in the game, then I will not become a paid subscriber.
I don't mind SOE handling the servers, the tech support and the subscriptions as long as they do not gain a creative foothold post-launch. As long as Sigil retains exclusive creative control, I'm fine with the arrangement.
People talk as if Vanguard is SOE's creation. Well, it is not. That is why I intend to at least give it a chance
You have a problem with how wonderful the EQ2 launch was compared to the WoW launch? SOE didn't have to worry about pointless things like a surge of customers flooding the EQ2 servers, in fact they were prepared for EQ2's launch so well that a few months later they were able to merge the game servers. Blizzard is so pathetic that they still, a couple years after WoW's launch, have to add more game servers.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually equating EQ2's underwhelming amount of people playing the game at launch as a good thing? Or the underwhelming amount of people currently playing it as just being "selective"? Or merging the servers as a sign of success? Or WoW's giantic playerbase that grows by leaps and bounds as unsuccessful?
Sorry.. my sarcasm detector wasn't going off. Either you are Pythonesque in your deadpan, or you really believe that. If it's the former, well played. If it's the latter, please don't use any sharp objects.
It was definatly sarcasm. I thought the line about Blizzard having to still add servers (because they are still trying to keep up with the demand for their product) would give that away. I just found "Cokey"'s 'EQ2 had a better launch because nobody wanted to play it' post was funny for some odd reason.
I'm not fond of SoE after what they did to SWG but i'd tryed the open beta for Vanguard and to be honest im not impressed enough to go buy it.. but thats just me.
You have a problem with how wonderful the EQ2 launch was compared to the WoW launch? SOE didn't have to worry about pointless things like a surge of customers flooding the EQ2 servers, in fact they were prepared for EQ2's launch so well that a few months later they were able to merge the game servers. Blizzard is so pathetic that they still, a couple years after WoW's launch, have to add more game servers.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually equating EQ2's underwhelming amount of people playing the game at launch as a good thing? Or the underwhelming amount of people currently playing it as just being "selective"? Or merging the servers as a sign of success? Or WoW's giantic playerbase that grows by leaps and bounds as unsuccessful?
Sorry.. my sarcasm detector wasn't going off. Either you are Pythonesque in your deadpan, or you really believe that. If it's the former, well played. If it's the latter, please don't use any sharp objects.
It was definatly sarcasm. I thought the line about Blizzard having to still add servers (because they are still trying to keep up with the demand for their product) would give that away. I just found "Cokey"'s 'EQ2 had a better launch because nobody wanted to play it' post was funny for some odd reason.
I thought you were being sarcastic... but on these forums, stranger things have posted stranger things.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
true if I invested my money It would suck to have it taken away over night but, playing a game online is not an investment it is a service you are paying for. Plain and simple. if you njoy a certain resteraunt and you eat there 2 or 3 times a week for several years then one day it's closed and gone. would this really effect you? I'd say wow didnt see that coming that sucks, well time to find a new place that I like. Same can be applied to games IMO.
How can you compare eating at a restaurant to playing a mmo? really lol
Well I still think the majority of the blame for SWG is with Lucas Arts. EQ2 turned around and became a very good game. My experiences in the Vanguard beta were positive and nothing at all like SWG. Vanguard will be around for quite awhile I think so when people decide to let go of their SOEphobia they can try it out.
Assuming a game is bad before it releases just seems somewhat narrowminded.
No this is plain consumer common sense.
DO NOT CONFUSE this with not trying somthing "new"... AND with the track record and history with SOE and a few products one has to expect this.
SOEphobia is what people should observe. Now then, sure they claim to not be that involved but we know how that can change now don't we?
LEC always refers to SOE and Sony online WHEVEVER there is a issue with SWG, thought or concept behind it... go LOOK on the LA's website.... it tells you who they like to shift any blame to about this product.
In fact it is the most un claimed product they have... NOBODY wants to be the one that said "Yep we did this"...lol.....
Again, do not confuse common sense and track record with "not trying somthing new"...... big difference. Sure this may be a new product BUT SOE's name is on it and any person that does not consider that after what they did to SWG is a fool for thinking so.
I don't buy cars from a company that at one time made them with 4 wheels and a engine, then mid production change it to 3 wheels and half a motor.... sorry.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Sony is a horrible company. They manipulate and treat their cusomters/playerbase like absolute crap. The only way a game can really survive under their wing is if they have as little connection to Sony Entertainment as possible in regards to development and CS. I mean really, the PS3 launch just emphesized how greedy and arrogant these guys are.
theres all sorts of hubbub about the involvement of soe. yes things went bad in swg. many people didnt even like it from the beginning, but you know what, there are lots of things about vanguard that reminds me of the original swg, owwning buildings and such. swg was a hardcore game, no fluff, just hours upon hours of not quite so easy gaming. of course it wasnt perfect but i liked it and it shouldnt have been changed, but hey if i have some time and find some money laying around i will definitely give this game chance whether soe(a VERY large company) is handling the server and support side of it or not.
Comments
Assuming a game is bad before it releases just seems somewhat narrowminded.
You can see why Sigil wanted to develop a game outside of SOE interferance.
You can see why they have total control of the game development.
You can see why...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Yep... Im in that line.
I would rather see what happens the first 6 months before they get my dime.
I just do NOT trust them and base that on track record, history, common sense and some good ole fashion "OPEN EYES" type thought.
I just want to see if they get involved.... I just think they will at some point.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
SOEphobia? Oh yeah its so unreasonible to dislike and boycott a company that has show in the past that they don't care about their playerbase and that they will lie to and try to trick every last cent they can out of you. SoE admited they knew they were changing SWG in ways the current player would not like and they certainly wouldn't have offer the refund on ToOW unless they were in a hard place legaly for annouceing the NGE a full day after ToOWs offical release.
Assuming a company with that track record of lack of respect for their customers and dishonest buisness practices will change is nieve.
I am struggling with this question now. I thought I would try to forgive SOE, at least enough to play a game like Vanguard that they claim at least they have no creative control. However, the reality of that really hit home when I tried beta and that same despicable SOE logo we saw in SWG popped up during loading and I was reminded of the way they treated us.
Not sure what I will do.
The only thing Sony has control of with Vanguard is advertising, distribution, and server management.
The developers of Vanguard retain full creative and production control over the game, and all intellectual rights to the work.
Quite frankly I wouldn't like to give them the skin off my shit, let alone $15 a month.
They'd have to employ some pretty hefty measures to make up for the grief hey've caused before I'd start playing one of their games again.
Anyone with hindsight would wait till at least the 6 month mark before commiting themselves to putting any money into vanguard, it is $oe im wary of not sigil, give it time and im sure they pull a rabbit out the hat like in swg.
Despite what soe says i doubt they dont have influence over the game, bullshit it has to run on there servers, wont be long before there calling the shots for an nge.
i just dont trust em
You have a problem with how wonderful the EQ2 launch was compared to the WoW launch? SOE didn't have to worry about pointless things like a surge of customers flooding the EQ2 servers, in fact they were prepared for EQ2's launch so well that a few months later they were able to merge the game servers. Blizzard is so pathetic that they still, a couple years after WoW's launch, have to add more game servers.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually equating EQ2's underwhelming amount of people playing the game at launch as a good thing? Or the underwhelming amount of people currently playing it as just being "selective"? Or merging the servers as a sign of success? Or WoW's giantic playerbase that grows by leaps and bounds as unsuccessful?
Sorry.. my sarcasm detector wasn't going off. Either you are Pythonesque in your deadpan, or you really believe that. If it's the former, well played. If it's the latter, please don't use any sharp objects.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
SOEphobia? Oh yeah its so unreasonible to dislike and boycott a company that has show in the past that they don't care about their playerbase and that they will lie to and try to trick every last cent they can out of you. SoE admited they knew they were changing SWG in ways the current player would not like and they certainly wouldn't have offer the refund on ToOW unless they were in a hard place legaly for annouceing the NGE a full day after ToOWs offical release.
Assuming a company with that track record of lack of respect for their customers and dishonest buisness practices will change is nieve.
Right.. It's like saying that the next Justin Timberlake album won't be another album of him sucking and pretending he was black, even though EVERY other album was.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I hope vangaurd can stay as is,creativly far far away from soe. I truelly do wish this game success and maybe months down the line I might give it a go If I can convince myself soe are not going to touch.
My spare time is very sparse so I will chose what I spend it on mutch more carefully in future.
I fully intend to give Vanguard at least my first 30 day free period to prove its worth to me. If It cannot do that, or if I cannot at least be well on an enjoyable road to finding my niche in the game, then I will not become a paid subscriber.
I don't mind SOE handling the servers, the tech support and the subscriptions as long as they do not gain a creative foothold post-launch. As long as Sigil retains exclusive creative control, I'm fine with the arrangement.
People talk as if Vanguard is SOE's creation. Well, it is not. That is why I intend to at least give it a chance
In Christ,
G. B. Jackson
"Darth Olomew in Exile"
You have a problem with how wonderful the EQ2 launch was compared to the WoW launch? SOE didn't have to worry about pointless things like a surge of customers flooding the EQ2 servers, in fact they were prepared for EQ2's launch so well that a few months later they were able to merge the game servers. Blizzard is so pathetic that they still, a couple years after WoW's launch, have to add more game servers.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually equating EQ2's underwhelming amount of people playing the game at launch as a good thing? Or the underwhelming amount of people currently playing it as just being "selective"? Or merging the servers as a sign of success? Or WoW's giantic playerbase that grows by leaps and bounds as unsuccessful?
Sorry.. my sarcasm detector wasn't going off. Either you are Pythonesque in your deadpan, or you really believe that. If it's the former, well played. If it's the latter, please don't use any sharp objects.
It was definatly sarcasm. I thought the line about Blizzard having to still add servers (because they are still trying to keep up with the demand for their product) would give that away. I just found "Cokey"'s 'EQ2 had a better launch because nobody wanted to play it' post was funny for some odd reason.
You have a problem with how wonderful the EQ2 launch was compared to the WoW launch? SOE didn't have to worry about pointless things like a surge of customers flooding the EQ2 servers, in fact they were prepared for EQ2's launch so well that a few months later they were able to merge the game servers. Blizzard is so pathetic that they still, a couple years after WoW's launch, have to add more game servers.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually equating EQ2's underwhelming amount of people playing the game at launch as a good thing? Or the underwhelming amount of people currently playing it as just being "selective"? Or merging the servers as a sign of success? Or WoW's giantic playerbase that grows by leaps and bounds as unsuccessful?
Sorry.. my sarcasm detector wasn't going off. Either you are Pythonesque in your deadpan, or you really believe that. If it's the former, well played. If it's the latter, please don't use any sharp objects.
It was definatly sarcasm. I thought the line about Blizzard having to still add servers (because they are still trying to keep up with the demand for their product) would give that away. I just found "Cokey"'s 'EQ2 had a better launch because nobody wanted to play it' post was funny for some odd reason.
I thought you were being sarcastic... but on these forums, stranger things have posted stranger things.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
No this is plain consumer common sense.
DO NOT CONFUSE this with not trying somthing "new"... AND with the track record and history with SOE and a few products one has to expect this.
SOEphobia is what people should observe. Now then, sure they claim to not be that involved but we know how that can change now don't we?
LEC always refers to SOE and Sony online WHEVEVER there is a issue with SWG, thought or concept behind it... go LOOK on the LA's website.... it tells you who they like to shift any blame to about this product.
In fact it is the most un claimed product they have... NOBODY wants to be the one that said "Yep we did this"...lol.....
Again, do not confuse common sense and track record with "not trying somthing new"...... big difference. Sure this may be a new product BUT SOE's name is on it and any person that does not consider that after what they did to SWG is a fool for thinking so.
I don't buy cars from a company that at one time made them with 4 wheels and a engine, then mid production change it to 3 wheels and half a motor.... sorry.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!