One thing I would like to point out that I didn't in my first post is,... Yes, SOE dropped the ball in SWG but I have also had people tell me that SOE has put out patch notes in other games, "Everquest" of items that were "new in game", people spent hours trying to get these items, only to find out that SOE really did not put the items in the game, but added them 2 or 3 months latter??.. So, its not only with SWG that SOE has pulled this BS stuff...
Again, I was not trying to be bad to Vanguard or anything like that,... I am just seeing how many people will not touch this game because of SOE.
Been there done that: Asherons Call,SWG,AOC,D&D,COH,Anarchy Online,DAOC,EVE,Guild Wars,LOTRO,POTBS,WAR,WW2, and Rift
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
Although I was part of a great game back in the day(SWG) and really am not impressed with SOE at all in several areas I gave them a shot with EQ2. Right off the bat I knew EQ2 was going to be a very good game with longevity however like so many others I got caught up in the whole WoW craze and left EQ2 behind. Warcraft was fun but once I got to the point where raiding turned boring it was back to EQ2 for me due to lore quests and a much friendlier helpful community.
As far as combat goes, I find Vanguard to be inbetween WoW and EQ2. Not quite as fluid as WoW but not as 'locked' as EQ2 is at the moment and I'm enjoying it very much. The world is huge, it takes a LONG time to get around in the game. If you don't like long travel times then this isn't the game for you, if you remember the long shuttle waits in SWG and you were able to tolerate them then you'll be ok.
The original SWG was a true sandbox game and to be honest Vanguard is the closest thing I've found to that feeling since, the quests are nice and not mind numbing at this point. While crafting isn't up to where the old SWG was(and nothing ever has been) it is much more complex than EQ2 and your ability to make top grade stuff requires you to actually pay attention.
In the end, I gave SOE a 2nd and 3rd shot and don't regret it. have fun
You know Sony didn't actually develop Vanguard, they're just providing the servers and the publishing. Sigil built the game. Granted SOE's development teams built / destroyed SWG (with the help of lucas arts). If Vanguard is bad its not from Sony but Sigil. There's such a mixed opinion and flame war over Vanguard I'm undecided on whether I'll eeventually play Vanguard.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
So basically, you're saying that it is bad to punish a company that does bad things to their customers and put out lowsy products. Every time a bad company puts out another product, we should welcome it with open arms and forget their horrible track record.
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
So basically, you're saying that it is bad to punish a company that does bad things to their customers and put out lowsy products. Every time a bad company puts out another product, we should welcome it with open arms and forget their horrible track record.
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Actually it's a good product put out by a not so hot company Yes sometimes that kinda thing happends.
Tried: Vanguard, UO, Rappelz, Archlord, RF Online, SWG, WAR, Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AC, APB, STO, Perfect World, Black Prophecy...
Played: EQ,EQII, Lineage, Lineage 2, GW, EVE Online, AoC, DoAC, iRO, AC2, WoW, SWTOR, Runes of Magic, Allods, Rift.. Currently Playing: Tera
Since SWG, I have one rule about subscribing to MMORPGs that trumps all others: If SOE is involved in any way, no matter how "minimal" the claim is that they are involved, I'm having none of it. Period.
There is an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
SOE fooled me once. Dammit I even got on their official forums way back in '03 and defended those people. Yes, they fooled me once, with SWG. So I made a promise to myself, and it's one I'm going to keep:
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
So basically, you're saying that it is bad to punish a company that does bad things to their customers and put out lowsy products. Every time a bad company puts out another product, we should welcome it with open arms and forget their horrible track record.
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Actually it's a good product put out by a not so hot company Yes sometimes that kinda thing happends. Hmmmm. I am not too sure where you get the information you use in that supposition. So if YOU alone like the game it is a good product? Please define good?
Can it be judged a good product if hundreds of thousands of people have left the game within a couple of years? I think not.
Some of the features promised at launch are STILL not in game.
They don't listen to their customers and have suffered as a result.
SHAYDE was being VERY generous in my opinion. This product and the companies that built it are far less than mediocre--they are hypocritical and incompetent at best.
it is just another raiding game with quests kill loot rinse repeat some of us are tired of that same ole same ole
while we realize there isn't a sandbox offering in the near future, more then just not trusting Soe I think many of us just may be burned out on the only formula developers are offering currently.
This is the longest period i have not been actively playing a mmorpg or have a current subscription, with that stated i am however enjoying console gaming and miss my mmorpg addiction it was cheaper ..................
I can remember a time when we wore first day releases badges proudly now we are just a waiting and seeing what happens, and in the mean time doing other things.......
No, you actually want Vanguard - Because they are made up of former EQ and SWG people who were fed up with SOE's destructive meddling.
The only thing Sony has control of with Vanguard is advertising, distribution, and server management.
The developers of Vanguard retain full creative and production control over the game, and all intellectual rights to the work.
And you know this for a fact because...... someone said so? No, Brad said "what HE wanted you to hear". Brad also said the game WOULD NOT BE RELEASED UNTIL READY. Of course now he says they have to release it due to financial reasons. Actually, what he means is, SoE payed him a ton of money, and THEY want it released now.They have their logo everywhere you see something about Vanguard. They dont get thier logo there just for looks.
If you think SoE wont have creative contribution to VG, you're lost. I cant see SoE saying, "hey, we'll toss up the servers, pay to have this game distributed, take a chance at losing millions, but develope however you like". If Sigil is not bringing in the cash or subs on thier end, SoE has to get payed somehow for the money they put in Brads face. If VG doesnt get the subs, how can SoE get thier cut? They have more say over VG then you think, money talks, thats why thier logo is on the game.
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
People kinda overstate or understate what the deal with SoE an Sigil..
As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOEs Station Access subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOEs MMO titles for one low monthly price.
Quote: Originally Posted by erentil0 View Post Just heard that SOE has lent Sigil several of its devs from the EQ2 team for a 6-8 month assignment. Wondering what everyone thinks about this and whether it bodes good or bad for Vanguard.
SOE, at our request, has sent some designers and artists up our way to make Vanguard even better. That's it. We appreciate it very much, and they are working just like Sigil people are working under Sigil's schedule and management. I hope there are no conspiracy theories about this. It's as simple as that.
We also hired a beta tester too. The more help the better.
thanks all, __________________ Brad McQuaid CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
People kinda overstate or understate what the deal with SoE an Sigil..
As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price.
Just heard that SOE has lent Sigil several of its devs from the EQ2 team for a 6-8 month assignment. Wondering what everyone thinks about this and whether it bodes good or bad for Vanguard.
SOE, at our request, has sent some designers and artists up our way to make Vanguard even better. That's it. We appreciate it very much, and they are working just like Sigil people are working under Sigil's schedule and management. I hope there are no conspiracy theories about this. It's as simple as that.
We also hired a beta tester too. The more help the better.
If you choose to put off a great game becouse you have some sorta problem with a company that makes great games then thats your loss. Think for yourslef, give it a try. Besides SOE is only handling the billing and such, the game is still by Sigil.
So basically, you're saying that it is bad to punish a company that does bad things to their customers and put out lowsy products. Every time a bad company puts out another product, we should welcome it with open arms and forget their horrible track record.
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Actually it's a good product put out by a not so hot company Yes sometimes that kinda thing happends.
I was once young like you....
Trust me kid, a few times around the block of being shit on and you learn a few things.
Business is business.... track record, history, common sense all matter when buying anything in life.
Ask a few car companies about that one....
Bottom line is this, first off SOE put themselves in this situation with how that have handled a few things... but then continued to do so.
If they had resolved things and came forward admiting mistakes then that is one thing, like anyone else... IF you fess up and step up to the bar to take your hits... that is respectful, sure it sucks... but at least you know you fucked up, admited it, intended to fix it and move on and make things right.
This is not the case here. In fact if anything the hole got deeper and worse. SO again, based on common sense, track record and history... the verdict will be out on this thing for a few months.
IF IT IS TRUE and they are already asking for Devs from SOE and thier staff... then I dare say..... this could be fucked up before it gets big even. EQ2 even..... and OMG if they ask any dev from SWG, they might as well get the coffin out now and all jump in it.
I can't think of one gamer that has some common sense that actually thinks SWG has promise or a future.......even my 8 year old son sees how bad the game sucks.... so I mean it's not that hard.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Comments
One thing I would like to point out that I didn't in my first post is,... Yes, SOE dropped the ball in SWG but I have also had people tell me that SOE has put out patch notes in other games, "Everquest" of items that were "new in game", people spent hours trying to get these items, only to find out that SOE really did not put the items in the game, but added them 2 or 3 months latter??.. So, its not only with SWG that SOE has pulled this BS stuff...
Again, I was not trying to be bad to Vanguard or anything like that,... I am just seeing how many people will not touch this game because of SOE.
Been there done that:
Asherons Call,SWG,AOC,D&D,COH,Anarchy Online,DAOC,EVE,Guild Wars,LOTRO,POTBS,WAR,WW2, and Rift
Although I was part of a great game back in the day(SWG) and really am not impressed with SOE at all in several areas I gave them a shot with EQ2. Right off the bat I knew EQ2 was going to be a very good game with longevity however like so many others I got caught up in the whole WoW craze and left EQ2 behind. Warcraft was fun but once I got to the point where raiding turned boring it was back to EQ2 for me due to lore quests and a much friendlier helpful community.
As far as combat goes, I find Vanguard to be inbetween WoW and EQ2. Not quite as fluid as WoW but not as 'locked' as EQ2 is at the moment and I'm enjoying it very much. The world is huge, it takes a LONG time to get around in the game. If you don't like long travel times then this isn't the game for you, if you remember the long shuttle waits in SWG and you were able to tolerate them then you'll be ok.
The original SWG was a true sandbox game and to be honest Vanguard is the closest thing I've found to that feeling since, the quests are nice and not mind numbing at this point. While crafting isn't up to where the old SWG was(and nothing ever has been) it is much more complex than EQ2 and your ability to make top grade stuff requires you to actually pay attention.
In the end, I gave SOE a 2nd and 3rd shot and don't regret it. have fun
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Actually it's a good product put out by a not so hot company
Tried: Vanguard, UO, Rappelz, Archlord, RF Online, SWG, WAR, Ryzom, Anarchy Online, AC, APB, STO, Perfect World, Black Prophecy...
Played: EQ,EQII, Lineage, Lineage 2, GW, EVE Online, AoC, DoAC, iRO, AC2, WoW, SWTOR, Runes of Magic, Allods, Rift..
Currently Playing: Tera
There is an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
SOE fooled me once. Dammit I even got on their official forums way back in '03 and defended those people. Yes, they fooled me once, with SWG. So I made a promise to myself, and it's one I'm going to keep:
Never again.
C
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Actually it's a good product put out by a not so hot company
Can it be judged a good product if hundreds of thousands of people have left the game within a couple of years? I think not.
Some of the features promised at launch are STILL not in game.
They don't listen to their customers and have suffered as a result.
SHAYDE was being VERY generous in my opinion. This product and the companies that built it are far less than mediocre--they are hypocritical and incompetent at best.
while we realize there isn't a sandbox offering in the near future, more then just not trusting Soe I think many of us just may be burned out on the only formula developers are offering currently.
This is the longest period i have not been actively playing a mmorpg or have a current subscription, with that stated i am however enjoying console gaming and miss my mmorpg addiction it was cheaper ..................
I can remember a time when we wore first day releases badges proudly now we are just a waiting and seeing what happens, and in the mean time doing other things.......
And you know this for a fact because...... someone said so? No, Brad said "what HE wanted you to hear". Brad also said the game WOULD NOT BE RELEASED UNTIL READY. Of course now he says they have to release it due to financial reasons. Actually, what he means is, SoE payed him a ton of money, and THEY want it released now.They have their logo everywhere you see something about Vanguard. They dont get thier logo there just for looks.
If you think SoE wont have creative contribution to VG, you're lost. I cant see SoE saying, "hey, we'll toss up the servers, pay to have this game distributed, take a chance at losing millions, but develope however you like". If Sigil is not bringing in the cash or subs on thier end, SoE has to get payed somehow for the money they put in Brads face. If VG doesnt get the subs, how can SoE get thier cut? They have more say over VG then you think, money talks, thats why thier logo is on the game.
People kinda overstate or understate what the deal with SoE an Sigil..
As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOEs Station Access subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOEs MMO titles for one low monthly price.
from http://www.sigilgames.com/sonypressrelease.html
but theirs a little more realy ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by erentil0 View Post
Just heard that SOE has lent Sigil several of its devs from the EQ2 team for a 6-8 month assignment. Wondering what everyone thinks about this and whether it bodes good or bad for Vanguard.
SOE, at our request, has sent some designers and artists up our way to make Vanguard even better. That's it. We appreciate it very much, and they are working just like Sigil people are working under Sigil's schedule and management. I hope there are no conspiracy theories about this. It's as simple as that.
We also hired a beta tester too. The more help the better.
thanks all,
__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
from http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?t=88693&page=6
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
People kinda overstate or understate what the deal with SoE an Sigil..
As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price.
from http://www.sigilgames.com/sonypressrelease.html
but theirs a little more realy ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by erentil0 View Post
Just heard that SOE has lent Sigil several of its devs from the EQ2 team for a 6-8 month assignment. Wondering what everyone thinks about this and whether it bodes good or bad for Vanguard.
SOE, at our request, has sent some designers and artists up our way to make Vanguard even better. That's it. We appreciate it very much, and they are working just like Sigil people are working under Sigil's schedule and management. I hope there are no conspiracy theories about this. It's as simple as that.
We also hired a beta tester too. The more help the better.
thanks all,
__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
from http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?t=88693&page=6
Well, lets just hope we wont have to hear from the "SoE wont contribute to the design of vanguard" crowd anymore..
Wow. Truly astounding.
Guess that's how mediocrity survives.
Actually it's a good product put out by a not so hot company
I was once young like you....
Trust me kid, a few times around the block of being shit on and you learn a few things.
Business is business.... track record, history, common sense all matter when buying anything in life.
Ask a few car companies about that one....
Bottom line is this, first off SOE put themselves in this situation with how that have handled a few things... but then continued to do so.
If they had resolved things and came forward admiting mistakes then that is one thing, like anyone else... IF you fess up and step up to the bar to take your hits... that is respectful, sure it sucks... but at least you know you fucked up, admited it, intended to fix it and move on and make things right.
This is not the case here. In fact if anything the hole got deeper and worse. SO again, based on common sense, track record and history... the verdict will be out on this thing for a few months.
IF IT IS TRUE and they are already asking for Devs from SOE and thier staff... then I dare say..... this could be fucked up before it gets big even. EQ2 even..... and OMG if they ask any dev from SWG, they might as well get the coffin out now and all jump in it.
I can't think of one gamer that has some common sense that actually thinks SWG has promise or a future.......even my 8 year old son sees how bad the game sucks.... so I mean it's not that hard.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
im going to be 100% true to you guys..
that man looks little weird.. like he would rape little girls.. or a murder....
and im not saying it because of what he did to SWG or SOE or anything.. he just looks like a bad guy in gernal.. thats all
Nasedoo: You said traders would get a revamp under my supervision.
Darth Lord Blixtev: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
i will eat broken glass before soe gets a penny from me. i have decided that on my part, this is now a grass roots movement.
deny sony cash.
buy no t.v.
buy no ps3.
buy no dvd player.
buy no blu-ray.
and to borrow a closing statement, BRING IT ON DOWN NOW!!!!!!!!
im going to be 100% true to you guys..
that man looks little weird.. like he would rape little girls.. or a murder....
and im not saying it because of what he did to SWG or SOE or anything.. he just looks like a bad guy in gernal.. thats all
if he was on fire, i would not piss on him.stupidiest think I ever heard! SOE is not that bad, been on EQ1 at launch and still playing EQ2 and never had 1 single ptoblem.
Perhaps the people having a problem are the ones that ruin most games by always crying. Like getting the best crafting system of
EQ2 changed to the crap it is now!
im going to be 100% true to you guys..
that man looks little weird.. like he would rape little girls.. or a murder....
and im not saying it because of what he did to SWG or SOE or anything.. he just looks like a bad guy in gernal.. thats all
if he was on fire, i would not piss on him.What if he wasn't on fire?
I will not go to Vanguard because it would require me to spend WAY too much money for a new computer & its being hosted by SOE.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
