Ok, wow had to post on this, Vanguard is a big disapointment, the hardware requirements, the point that they patched about 20+percent of MAJOR BUGS the day before the release in the stores, to having made crapy games like EQ2 they are on the same path with that game. Soon they will have to release expansions every month to keep the few ppl there that they have lol. I have beta tested vanguard so I know what Im talkn about, I refused to buy the retail and canceled my account with them. I really dont know what THE WHOLE THREAD is about, but to the person that was upset that ppl complain on the forums, THAT IS THE POINT OF A FORUM NUB!. to find out what is wrong with a game and fix it, also to get good feedback. but mainly for READING TESTERS/PLAYERS COMPLAINTS. SO mr game guru write down what ur thinking next time before your going to post, EMAIL IT TO ME: christracks@christracks.com and Ill go over it so next time you dont look like a fool.
I to have suffered the performance issues with this said game. It bothered me to a point I started looking on different forums. Besides I always read mmorpg.com news, reviews and boards to see whats coming down the pipe in general.
Then I keep seeing really crazy posts, like dont play vanguard, your nipples will be engulfed in flames while demons sprout from your nose and run around your desk telling you you are going to to hell. I felt the need to express my frustration wading through all this pure and utter crap trying to find a solution to my issues.
Just for reference I have:
Pentium 950
2 Gigs of 667 DDR2
Raid 5 array (3 80gig drives)
X800xl 256meg
Loading up the game I was like this is awesome. Then reality sets in and i figured out the ctrl-p for FPS. Low and behold 15-20 fps. Grrrr.. Ok I fiddle with some sttings, look online and finally get it running smooth as silk at 40-50 fps.
Granted, I admit to this major flaw. Sigil needs to correct it asap, hopefully they will change somethings and learn from SOE's mistakes with EQ2 performance. But even for most novice computer gamers with said hardware or above, it should not be that difficult to tweak as I did in one freaking hour after figuring out how the settings work (IE: which ones have the most impact on performance).
First note I have played every mmo since I started early on with EQ1. I have been through many releases and even play tested games professionally. I have been a computer professional/ gamer most of my life. First off I can’t express how it makes me sick to continue to see posts all over the web every time a new is released about how bad it is for that person. I am all about free speech and all, but come on, these posts and people are crazy. If you have such a hatred for such games or issues with them, please for the sake of all the sane gamers, choose a different hobby. Through the years I have seen the whole computer gaming trend go through the roof. I would assume a lot of people are not used to the bugs and issues with computers in general! I would have never thought in a million years that the whole internet/online gaming would take such a turn for the worst. I am refering to the people and players. I dont post anywhere often, make a scene, or discuss much about different games. I can tell you that I do read different boards often and the quality of posts is starting to make me wonder where peoples heads are at or what type of people they really are in real life. A sad place to be in as a gamer looking for a new fun game and finding all these crazy posts.
All that aside and my venting done. This is a great game and the concept is one of the best I have seen since that UO/EQ1 era. I have finally gotten that creepy, scared feeling back when playing this game. It has that level of immersion from the "old" days. There are bugs; they should be fixed promptly by the devs if Sigil is true to their word and fans. More importantly their game! Do some searching, look around and ignore a lot of these posts. Try the game, if you dont like it dont play it, plain and simple! Dont come crying on boards telling people the game wont run well because you have this uber gaming rig and you really have an old PIII machine with a 16mb TNT card. Upgrades are part of computer gaming, always have been, always will be!!!! Do I have faith? Some. Can I see the long term ideas and goals of the devs, yes. The game is not as bad as the crazy people make it out to be. Word of advise, if some one gets so upset by the game and feels they need to troll or rant about it there is most likely something wrong with that person or their life .
The simple fact of the matter is this.
If Sigil hadn't gone around promising to be the best game ever, to usher in the "3rd generation" of MMORPG's, and made more promises than they could ever realistically achieve, this game wouldn't take the backlash.
It's because McQuaid had to make this "vision" and fall short on every front.
Has I never heard all the garbage associated with how tremendous Vanguard would be, I think this game could have been a sleeper hit. However, because Sigil and other folks wanted to live off their past achievements, and tout about how amazing their game would be, they're catching flak for it.
I expect people to be pissed at this; if you went to a board meeting and promised a 700% profit increase, and ended up losing 15% instead, you'd likely be fired. Sigil and co. are lucky that they're not judged on what was promised vs. what was yielded, or they'd be in a whole world of hurt right now.
That's why people are mad.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
First note I have played every mmo since I started early on with EQ1. I have been through many releases and even play tested games professionally. I have been a computer professional/ gamer most of my life. First off I can’t express how it makes me sick to continue to see posts all over the web every time a new is released about how bad it is for that person. I am all about free speech and all, but come on, these posts and people are crazy. If you have such a hatred for such games or issues with them, please for the sake of all the sane gamers, choose a different hobby. Through the years I have seen the whole computer gaming trend go through the roof. I would assume a lot of people are not used to the bugs and issues with computers in general! I would have never thought in a million years that the whole internet/online gaming would take such a turn for the worst. I am refering to the people and players. I dont post anywhere often, make a scene, or discuss much about different games. I can tell you that I do read different boards often and the quality of posts is starting to make me wonder where peoples heads are at or what type of people they really are in real life. A sad place to be in as a gamer looking for a new fun game and finding all these crazy posts.
All that aside and my venting done. This is a great game and the concept is one of the best I have seen since that UO/EQ1 era. I have finally gotten that creepy, scared feeling back when playing this game. It has that level of immersion from the "old" days. There are bugs; they should be fixed promptly by the devs if Sigil is true to their word and fans. More importantly their game! Do some searching, look around and ignore a lot of these posts. Try the game, if you dont like it dont play it, plain and simple! Dont come crying on boards telling people the game wont run well because you have this uber gaming rig and you really have an old PIII machine with a 16mb TNT card. Upgrades are part of computer gaming, always have been, always will be!!!! Do I have faith? Some. Can I see the long term ideas and goals of the devs, yes. The game is not as bad as the crazy people make it out to be. Word of advise, if some one gets so upset by the game and feels they need to troll or rant about it there is most likely something wrong with that person or their life .
The simple fact of the matter is this.
If Sigil hadn't gone around promising to be the best game ever, to usher in the "3rd generation" of MMORPG's, and made more promises than they could ever realistically achieve, this game wouldn't take the backlash.
It's because McQuaid had to make this "vision" and fall short on every front.
Has I never heard all the garbage associated with how tremendous Vanguard would be, I think this game could have been a sleeper hit. However, because Sigil and other folks wanted to live off their past achievements, and tout about how amazing their game would be, they're catching flak for it.
I expect people to be pissed at this; if you went to a board meeting and promised a 700% profit increase, and ended up losing 15% instead, you'd likely be fired. Sigil and co. are lucky that they're not judged on what was promised vs. what was yielded, or they'd be in a whole world of hurt right now.
That's why people are mad.
Agreed. Despite how much I am enjoying the game, I expected MUCH better then this.
If Sigil hadn't gone around promising to be the best game ever, to usher in the "3rd generation" of MMORPG's, and made more promises than they could ever realistically achieve, this game wouldn't take the backlash.
It's because McQuaid had to make this "vision" and fall short on every front.
Has I never heard all the garbage associated with how tremendous Vanguard would be, I think this game could have been a sleeper hit. However, because Sigil and other folks wanted to live off their past achievements, and tout about how amazing their game would be, they're catching flak for it.
I expect people to be pissed at this; if you went to a board meeting and promised a 700% profit increase, and ended up losing 15% instead, you'd likely be fired. Sigil and co. are lucky that they're not judged on what was promised vs. what was yielded, or they'd be in a whole world of hurt right now.
That's why people are mad.
I started playing MMOs with EQ1 in November 1999. Since then it's been my main leisure activity. I am a hardcore casual player, in that I play from 20 - 40+ hours a week, but use that time entirely to potter about, without any interest in reaching the "end-game".
I have played EQ1 continually, if sporadically since 1999 and EQ2 since mid-beta. I've also played and enjoyed DAOC, Guild Wars, Rubies of Eventide, Ferentus, Minions of Mirth, Anarchy Online, Endless Ages and more. I've played and not much enjoyed UO, AC1, Horizons, SWG among others. Basically, I enjoy MMOs.
I think Vanguard is, quite simply, the best MMO since EQ1. It's the only full-scale, mainstream MMO that gives me that "gosh-wow" feeling EQ1 did before it became overfamiliar. I also think does pretty much everything I expected it would from the marketing (something I definitley would not have said during beta 3. ). Yes, it's ridiculously buggy, but I don't care. It's better with the bugs than any other game i have played in the last 5 years.
The thing it really lives up to is the promise of freedom. I do really feel my characters can do whatever I choose to have them do. That, in and of itself, makes this the best game I have played since EQ1. Frankly, so long as enough people pay to play it to keep it commercially viable, I could care less if its a "hit". I don't care if Brad gets a bonus or has to sell his limo. Just so the servers stay up and I can spend evenings and weekends in Telon, I'll be happy.
EXPECTATION MANAGEMENT is probably 90% of what management actually is. On all fronts (with owners, with public, with employees, etc). I didn't read that anywhere, that's just my own thoughts after running a business etc. The other 10% is actually forcing yourself to do the boring stuff... hehe
But VG has to be taken in context too. The mmo market is a BARREN WASTELAND right now.... D&L flops and becomes an almost criminal endeavor. DDO misses being a hit. WoW killed the open-world pvp very early, then took 2+ years for an xpack. And LOTRO has the shadow of Turbine's performance hanging over it.... PotBS gets delayed a year, AoC gets delayed another couple of quarters (that could be a good thing btw, just that it means nothing to play now)
So people are thirsty and starving right now. They come to these forums because they want to believe VG is good. They react so vehamently when they judge it to be less than expected. .... it's a tough time to release an MMO... better get it DONE is all I can say....
I am also an old timer. Hell, I played pong when it was new. I schlepped to the mall with a bag of quarters to play at the arcade - games like Asteroids, William's Defender, Joust, you name it. I was there for EQ pre-Luclin, and I have played pretty much everything since, either at launch or in beta. And I say this one is crap! I can elaborate on that, but frankly despite your rant about the lack of detail in other people's posts you really have little to say in support of the game other than your dislike of people who disagree with you. There is nothing in Vanguard that makes it a preferred game for "old timers". It's just another buggy grindfest, content light, for people who want to sink lots of time into a game and call that skill lol.
think everyones has that typical pc , execpt a gamer uses AMD . LOL
As he is using a P 950 and I'm using a core2duo and we are both using 2 years old gfx cards and get the game running smooth as silk I can now only see why the game runs like crap on all your gamers PCs
First note I have played every mmo since I started early on with EQ1. I have been through many releases and even play tested games professionally. I have been a computer professional/ gamer most of my life. First off I can’t express how it makes me sick to continue to see posts all over the web every time a new is released about how bad it is for that person. I am all about free speech and all, but come on, these posts and people are crazy. If you have such a hatred for such games or issues with them, please for the sake of all the sane gamers, choose a different hobby. Through the years I have seen the whole computer gaming trend go through the roof. I would assume a lot of people are not used to the bugs and issues with computers in general! I would have never thought in a million years that the whole internet/online gaming would take such a turn for the worst. I am refering to the people and players. I dont post anywhere often, make a scene, or discuss much about different games. I can tell you that I do read different boards often and the quality of posts is starting to make me wonder where peoples heads are at or what type of people they really are in real life. A sad place to be in as a gamer looking for a new fun game and finding all these crazy posts.
All that aside and my venting done. This is a great game and the concept is one of the best I have seen since that UO/EQ1 era. I have finally gotten that creepy, scared feeling back when playing this game. It has that level of immersion from the "old" days. There are bugs; they should be fixed promptly by the devs if Sigil is true to their word and fans. More importantly their game! Do some searching, look around and ignore a lot of these posts. Try the game, if you dont like it dont play it, plain and simple! Dont come crying on boards telling people the game wont run well because you have this uber gaming rig and you really have an old PIII machine with a 16mb TNT card. Upgrades are part of computer gaming, always have been, always will be!!!! Do I have faith? Some. Can I see the long term ideas and goals of the devs, yes. The game is not as bad as the crazy people make it out to be. Word of advise, if some one gets so upset by the game and feels they need to troll or rant about it there is most likely something wrong with that person or their life .
I am on the other side of your coin. I've been working in the industry, alpha/beta testing the games, and playing since AOL's NWN.
In case you don't know thats a very long time. Before this I was into Mud's in a big way and even hosted 2 off my community BBS. Heh even a much longer time ago even before the internet as we know it.
As sick as you are of players complaining about the state of game development, I am just as sick of players defending them.
Game development has gone down the toilet. In the early days, devs lacked the skills, knowledge, and experience of other devs and their trials and errors. However what they did have was a pioneer spirit, and dreams, and creativity. Game devs use to be gamers themselves. old school gamers who wanted to take their visions of those pen and paper games into the bold new world of computers. They had passion.
Now we have a whole new generation of developers, techno hacks. Graduates of the fine 6 week online course, you too can be a game developer. They know what works because that's whats been done 1000 times before and what they will do 1000 times after. They lack for any true creativity and are simply code thieves taking apart other people's work and stealing the best parts of it. Most times it doesnt work right because they don't understand it. When all you do is copy someone elses code over and over having the metal capacity to really understand it and see what it is that makes it tick goes right out the door. God forbid there truly is a new dev with a new idea because the hacks for the big devs will steal it before its even outta alpha. (SOE is the leader in this practice and it sickens me to the core.) Game developing has become strictly about the $ and no longer about the game.
The other problem with player defense is the wide reaching drop in gamer IQ. Gamers use to be the best and the brightest, the brilliant, creative, and analytical minds. Not too long ago people use to make fun of gamers, redicule them, call them names. Geek, dork, nerd... four eyes. Now thinks to mindless gaming craze where any idiot can pick up a controller and call themselves a gamer, the same people that use to make fun of us are now right in here with us. Problem is they are still making fun of us.
The nerds, geeks, old school gamers are fighting for our survival in a world that is rapidly falling into the hands of the casual braindead gamers. You are too stupid to know what makes a truly good game. You are all about that race to cap, that l33t uber sword and armor, how much gold you can sell on ebay, and of course how many frags you can get along the way. It's disgusting and pathetic. Go back to your locker room slapping each other on the ass and telling lies about Sally slut and how you hit that, and leave the gaming to the people with a braincell in their head.
Lastly and imo the biggest problem we have in player defense is the corporate plant, the paid fanbois who spend 12 hours a day making new account after new account hyping games, and flaming anyone who has anything negative to say about a title. This has become a HUGE problem in the industry as some developers have entire departments dedicated to doing just this issue. Ya know its marketing, but in a truly unethical and aggressive way.
Whatever though I know I won't get thru to you, I've learned that over the last few years, but ultimately its not you I'm trying to get thru to. It's them, the devs who sold out, the few old school gamer devs who compromised their principles for that bonus check. That's really what its all about trying to save that last visage of true gaming before its lost forever.
Lastly and imo the biggest problem we have in player defense is the corporate plant, the paid fanbois who spend 12 hours a day making new account after new account hyping games, and flaming anyone who has anything negative to say about a title. This has become a HUGE problem in the industry as some developers have entire departments dedicated to doing just this issue. Ya know its marketing, but in a truly unethical and aggressive way. Whatever though I know I won't get thru to you, I've learned that over the last few years, but ultimately its not you I'm trying to get thru to. It's them, the devs who sold out, the few old school gamer devs who compromised their principles for that bonus check. That's really what its all about trying to save that last visage of true gaming before its lost forever.
These corperate plants are known as "shills" in the political forums. Deceitfull they are, but easily spotted. They serve only to spam out any negative posts from the front page, and create a local following of rabid dogs. I can link 2 posts loaded with "shills" that ran amuck trying to get more than a few negative posts off the front page today. Any takers as to which 2 posts I am reffering too?
Combine the anonymity of the Internet (intarweb) with the immaturity of someone who plays games in that space and you can easily see why you get the posts you find most of the time. Like a few others posting in this thread, I'm 30+ and have been a gamer for a long time -- but I'm not here to toot my horn, only share my opinion.
I expect nothing constructive to come from forums unless they're from developers or official game representatives in some other form or capacity. As a matter of fact, I'm quite shocked when I see well thought out, literate, and often times constructive, posts.
I purchased Vanguard to hang out with a guild that I thought would be cool to hang with and they imploded trying to decide if they wanted to play on PvE or PvP for Vanguard. Their decision was to not have guild representation in Vanguard. Quite honestly, I haven't spent much time playing it. I played in beta long enough to figure out that my system was sub par for the game and although it's well above the "minimum" requirements, it chopped and kicked me in the shin every chance it got. I managed a PC swap with my wife, who has a more updated computer and much better for upgrading than my computer, but it still has issues with load-chop. It's not enough to stop me from playing, but it's annoying and reminds me of flying into Theed on a speeder... not a pleasant memory by any means.
I find that I'm not really entertained by the quests in Vanguard, although, and here's the admittance from which I'll be ignored and flamed, I've spent very little time on any one character. The combat is very boring for me. I suspect that as I get higher in levels things will change, but does it have to be so dull at low levels?
I never played EQ. My first MMO was SWG. In SWG, things were new and interesting. The combat system was alright, but the game felt like there was so much more.. well, when it first came out. Too long of a story, but I have fond memories of it.
I then played several other MMO's and eventually WoW. For all the bashing and "kiddy MMO" comments it gets, WoW is very polished. Even on release, it was pretty darn good. They had some server issues, overcrowding and whatnot, but overall, it was much better than any other MMO release I had seen. Animations and combat are so clean in that game. Yes, Vanguard is a much bigger game, but WoW is good at what it does. I quit WoW because I honestly wanted a game like Vanguard. It's just bugging me that it's so unpolished and I'm worried that the changes they're going to be making will be too severe. Delicate balancing and thorough testing are always important.
Anyway, my rant will be ignored or completely misunderstood, so I'll cut this short. Yeah, I have a lot more I could say, but at this point, I feel like I've already typed too much.
NWN on AOL, yeah, I played it. Played Gemstone and Dragon Realms to. Oh, I also played one of the first massive graphical games, The Realm, I believe that's what it was called. Really quite funny when you look back at it.
I agree with OP in principle. We need to remember though, that trolling and constructive criticism are subject to personal interpretation. Some may consider someones post a valid criticism, but some may consider that to be trollism.
@ apocalance
I agree with 95% of what you said. I dont want to repeat your words so ill just make a simple comparison: WoW is like a dumb blond bimbo with bit hooters, shes incredibly sexy and quick to please, doesnt take much effort to get into her.. pants. VSoH on the other hand is a worker class of woman, she knows how to cook, how to clean, how to do taxes, but shes just not too much fun, shes "bulky", has nervous breakdowns, likes to shout and sometimes beat the crap out of her man. In the last 2 days I couldnt find a group in Lotus Hold for group quests, so in a way, im stuck grinding, doing nerfed crafting or unbalanced diplomacy. Im still having fun so far, but, Im getting that EQ1ish feeling of waiting for something to happen.
Comments
Ok, wow had to post on this, Vanguard is a big disapointment, the hardware requirements, the point that they patched about 20+percent of MAJOR BUGS the day before the release in the stores, to having made crapy games like EQ2 they are on the same path with that game. Soon they will have to release expansions every month to keep the few ppl there that they have lol. I have beta tested vanguard so I know what Im talkn about, I refused to buy the retail and canceled my account with them. I really dont know what THE WHOLE THREAD is about, but to the person that was upset that ppl complain on the forums, THAT IS THE POINT OF A FORUM NUB!. to find out what is wrong with a game and fix it, also to get good feedback. but mainly for READING TESTERS/PLAYERS COMPLAINTS. SO mr game guru write down what ur thinking next time before your going to post, EMAIL IT TO ME: christracks@christracks.com and Ill go over it so next time you dont look like a fool.
Best Reguards.
www.Christracks.com
Airhead,
I to have suffered the performance issues with this said game. It bothered me to a point I started looking on different forums. Besides I always read mmorpg.com news, reviews and boards to see whats coming down the pipe in general.
Then I keep seeing really crazy posts, like dont play vanguard, your nipples will be engulfed in flames while demons sprout from your nose and run around your desk telling you you are going to to hell. I felt the need to express my frustration wading through all this pure and utter crap trying to find a solution to my issues.
Just for reference I have:
Pentium 950
2 Gigs of 667 DDR2
Raid 5 array (3 80gig drives)
X800xl 256meg
Loading up the game I was like this is awesome. Then reality sets in and i figured out the ctrl-p for FPS. Low and behold 15-20 fps. Grrrr.. Ok I fiddle with some sttings, look online and finally get it running smooth as silk at 40-50 fps.
Granted, I admit to this major flaw. Sigil needs to correct it asap, hopefully they will change somethings and learn from SOE's mistakes with EQ2 performance. But even for most novice computer gamers with said hardware or above, it should not be that difficult to tweak as I did in one freaking hour after figuring out how the settings work (IE: which ones have the most impact on performance).
If Sigil hadn't gone around promising to be the best game ever, to usher in the "3rd generation" of MMORPG's, and made more promises than they could ever realistically achieve, this game wouldn't take the backlash.
It's because McQuaid had to make this "vision" and fall short on every front.
Has I never heard all the garbage associated with how tremendous Vanguard would be, I think this game could have been a sleeper hit. However, because Sigil and other folks wanted to live off their past achievements, and tout about how amazing their game would be, they're catching flak for it.
I expect people to be pissed at this; if you went to a board meeting and promised a 700% profit increase, and ended up losing 15% instead, you'd likely be fired. Sigil and co. are lucky that they're not judged on what was promised vs. what was yielded, or they'd be in a whole world of hurt right now.
That's why people are mad.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
If Sigil hadn't gone around promising to be the best game ever, to usher in the "3rd generation" of MMORPG's, and made more promises than they could ever realistically achieve, this game wouldn't take the backlash.
It's because McQuaid had to make this "vision" and fall short on every front.
Has I never heard all the garbage associated with how tremendous Vanguard would be, I think this game could have been a sleeper hit. However, because Sigil and other folks wanted to live off their past achievements, and tout about how amazing their game would be, they're catching flak for it.
I expect people to be pissed at this; if you went to a board meeting and promised a 700% profit increase, and ended up losing 15% instead, you'd likely be fired. Sigil and co. are lucky that they're not judged on what was promised vs. what was yielded, or they'd be in a whole world of hurt right now.
That's why people are mad.
Agreed. Despite how much I am enjoying the game, I expected MUCH better then this.
I have played EQ1 continually, if sporadically since 1999 and EQ2 since mid-beta. I've also played and enjoyed DAOC, Guild Wars, Rubies of Eventide, Ferentus, Minions of Mirth, Anarchy Online, Endless Ages and more. I've played and not much enjoyed UO, AC1, Horizons, SWG among others. Basically, I enjoy MMOs.
I think Vanguard is, quite simply, the best MMO since EQ1. It's the only full-scale, mainstream MMO that gives me that "gosh-wow" feeling EQ1 did before it became overfamiliar. I also think does pretty much everything I expected it would from the marketing (something I definitley would not have said during beta 3. ). Yes, it's ridiculously buggy, but I don't care. It's better with the bugs than any other game i have played in the last 5 years.
The thing it really lives up to is the promise of freedom. I do really feel my characters can do whatever I choose to have them do. That, in and of itself, makes this the best game I have played since EQ1. Frankly, so long as enough people pay to play it to keep it commercially viable, I could care less if its a "hit". I don't care if Brad gets a bonus or has to sell his limo. Just so the servers stay up and I can spend evenings and weekends in Telon, I'll be happy.
But VG has to be taken in context too. The mmo market is a BARREN WASTELAND right now.... D&L flops and becomes an almost criminal endeavor. DDO misses being a hit. WoW killed the open-world pvp very early, then took 2+ years for an xpack. And LOTRO has the shadow of Turbine's performance hanging over it.... PotBS gets delayed a year, AoC gets delayed another couple of quarters (that could be a good thing btw, just that it means nothing to play now)
So people are thirsty and starving right now. They come to these forums because they want to believe VG is good. They react so vehamently when they judge it to be less than expected. .... it's a tough time to release an MMO... better get it DONE is all I can say....
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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To the OP.
I am on the other side of your coin. I've been working in the industry, alpha/beta testing the games, and playing since AOL's NWN.
In case you don't know thats a very long time. Before this I was into Mud's in a big way and even hosted 2 off my community BBS. Heh even a much longer time ago even before the internet as we know it.
As sick as you are of players complaining about the state of game development, I am just as sick of players defending them.
Game development has gone down the toilet. In the early days, devs lacked the skills, knowledge, and experience of other devs and their trials and errors. However what they did have was a pioneer spirit, and dreams, and creativity. Game devs use to be gamers themselves. old school gamers who wanted to take their visions of those pen and paper games into the bold new world of computers. They had passion.
Now we have a whole new generation of developers, techno hacks. Graduates of the fine 6 week online course, you too can be a game developer. They know what works because that's whats been done 1000 times before and what they will do 1000 times after. They lack for any true creativity and are simply code thieves taking apart other people's work and stealing the best parts of it. Most times it doesnt work right because they don't understand it. When all you do is copy someone elses code over and over having the metal capacity to really understand it and see what it is that makes it tick goes right out the door. God forbid there truly is a new dev with a new idea because the hacks for the big devs will steal it before its even outta alpha. (SOE is the leader in this practice and it sickens me to the core.) Game developing has become strictly about the $ and no longer about the game.
The other problem with player defense is the wide reaching drop in gamer IQ. Gamers use to be the best and the brightest, the brilliant, creative, and analytical minds. Not too long ago people use to make fun of gamers, redicule them, call them names. Geek, dork, nerd... four eyes. Now thinks to mindless gaming craze where any idiot can pick up a controller and call themselves a gamer, the same people that use to make fun of us are now right in here with us. Problem is they are still making fun of us.
The nerds, geeks, old school gamers are fighting for our survival in a world that is rapidly falling into the hands of the casual braindead gamers. You are too stupid to know what makes a truly good game. You are all about that race to cap, that l33t uber sword and armor, how much gold you can sell on ebay, and of course how many frags you can get along the way. It's disgusting and pathetic. Go back to your locker room slapping each other on the ass and telling lies about Sally slut and how you hit that, and leave the gaming to the people with a braincell in their head.
Lastly and imo the biggest problem we have in player defense is the corporate plant, the paid fanbois who spend 12 hours a day making new account after new account hyping games, and flaming anyone who has anything negative to say about a title. This has become a HUGE problem in the industry as some developers have entire departments dedicated to doing just this issue. Ya know its marketing, but in a truly unethical and aggressive way.
Whatever though I know I won't get thru to you, I've learned that over the last few years, but ultimately its not you I'm trying to get thru to. It's them, the devs who sold out, the few old school gamer devs who compromised their principles for that bonus check. That's really what its all about trying to save that last visage of true gaming before its lost forever.
Combine the anonymity of the Internet (intarweb) with the immaturity of someone who plays games in that space and you can easily see why you get the posts you find most of the time. Like a few others posting in this thread, I'm 30+ and have been a gamer for a long time -- but I'm not here to toot my horn, only share my opinion.
I expect nothing constructive to come from forums unless they're from developers or official game representatives in some other form or capacity. As a matter of fact, I'm quite shocked when I see well thought out, literate, and often times constructive, posts.
I purchased Vanguard to hang out with a guild that I thought would be cool to hang with and they imploded trying to decide if they wanted to play on PvE or PvP for Vanguard. Their decision was to not have guild representation in Vanguard. Quite honestly, I haven't spent much time playing it. I played in beta long enough to figure out that my system was sub par for the game and although it's well above the "minimum" requirements, it chopped and kicked me in the shin every chance it got. I managed a PC swap with my wife, who has a more updated computer and much better for upgrading than my computer, but it still has issues with load-chop. It's not enough to stop me from playing, but it's annoying and reminds me of flying into Theed on a speeder... not a pleasant memory by any means.
I find that I'm not really entertained by the quests in Vanguard, although, and here's the admittance from which I'll be ignored and flamed, I've spent very little time on any one character. The combat is very boring for me. I suspect that as I get higher in levels things will change, but does it have to be so dull at low levels?
I never played EQ. My first MMO was SWG. In SWG, things were new and interesting. The combat system was alright, but the game felt like there was so much more.. well, when it first came out. Too long of a story, but I have fond memories of it.
I then played several other MMO's and eventually WoW. For all the bashing and "kiddy MMO" comments it gets, WoW is very polished. Even on release, it was pretty darn good. They had some server issues, overcrowding and whatnot, but overall, it was much better than any other MMO release I had seen. Animations and combat are so clean in that game. Yes, Vanguard is a much bigger game, but WoW is good at what it does. I quit WoW because I honestly wanted a game like Vanguard. It's just bugging me that it's so unpolished and I'm worried that the changes they're going to be making will be too severe. Delicate balancing and thorough testing are always important.
Anyway, my rant will be ignored or completely misunderstood, so I'll cut this short. Yeah, I have a lot more I could say, but at this point, I feel like I've already typed too much.
NWN on AOL, yeah, I played it. Played Gemstone and Dragon Realms to. Oh, I also played one of the first massive graphical games, The Realm, I believe that's what it was called. Really quite funny when you look back at it.
so...
@ apocalance
I agree with 95% of what you said. I dont want to repeat your words so ill just make a simple comparison: WoW is like a dumb blond bimbo with bit hooters, shes incredibly sexy and quick to please, doesnt take much effort to get into her.. pants. VSoH on the other hand is a worker class of woman, she knows how to cook, how to clean, how to do taxes, but shes just not too much fun, shes "bulky", has nervous breakdowns, likes to shout and sometimes beat the crap out of her man. In the last 2 days I couldnt find a group in Lotus Hold for group quests, so in a way, im stuck grinding, doing nerfed crafting or unbalanced diplomacy. Im still having fun so far, but, Im getting that EQ1ish feeling of waiting for something to happen.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.