Originally posted by Cymdai Hell, there's only 4 users on this forum, we're all just using alts. We've got a Vanboi, a hater, a curious potential customer, and the guy who sits on the fence; we're each just using 100 alts.
Actually, there's a fifth person here. The one that wishes you'd all just shut the holy hell up, already. The signal to noise ratio here has gotten worse than Whineplay, the SWG official forums, and the WoW general forums combined. Perhaps all you Holy Crusaders could meet up behind the gym after school, and settle this once and for all?
Oh, and since objectivity was mentioned, Fox News has fair and objective reporting as well. Or so they say.
Originally posted by Tnice Not only do all the people who like Vanguard bash WoW in game and on any forum you visit, WoW is simply a totally different game.
You sure it's all the people? Perhaps it goes against the laws of physics, but I'd be willing to bet there's plenty of people who like both games for what they are.
This is interesting but I was wondering, what does Better Homes and Gardens have to say about Vanguard? They are at least as much an authority on gaming as the NYT.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I do know quite a few retired people who play MMORPGs, and considering the time sinks that Vanguard employs they would be about the only mature gamers who have the time to be able to invest in this game. On another forum I was reading a thread about Vanguard and one of the posters was lamenting the fact that now that he has a wife and while Vanguard appealed to his old EQ1 days with kids and a wife now he just coiuld not play a game where only 20% of the content was geared toward solo play ( Brads words not mine) and significant time sinks such as corpse runs were involved. As far as the advertising concept, I agree it hit a lot of people but was it the right target market. Just my opinion here but the people who read the NY Times might be more inclined to play a more casual oriented game such as WoW, or EQII, rather than Vanguard. That's just my opinion there and while it might help sales some, wil Vanguard be able to retain the casual gamers who decide to try it based on the article. Like others I think those who like Vanguard and will stick wiith it have already made up their minds and have purchased it. Now all it can do is try and retain those who have purchased it, and hope that in a few months some of the open beta players who put off buying it at release will return for another try when they polish it more and start a free trial.
I was trying to figure out the demographic for Vanguard. I think the SOE guys are smart and identified the right demographic. They used the NYT to speak to that demographic. I see retired persons as the Vanguard's primary demographic. Retired persons have much more free time than students or those in the working age range.
Gameplay mechanics like corpse runs, large race segregated world, mandatory group progression, waiting for boats, long travel times, etc are timesinks that do make the game more realistic but very inconvenient to those with much less time on their hands.
Maybe SOE should start advertising the game on Fox News. It does seem like the game is definitely attracting an older crowd. But I don't think it's going to draw in a lot of 55+ non-gamers. Aside from a few spouses who get sucked in by their significant other, these people seem to be mostly made up of old time RP gamers, probably mostly EQ vets. I fit somewhere in the middle so maybe that's why I'm not quite ready to "retire" to another grind-intensive game.
Maybe AARP magazine might be a better vehicle than the NY Times. On the serious side there are a lot of retired people who do play MMORPG's but because of their fixed incomes I doubt they would want to invest the cash for a system that could run the game decently. I am sure a few would but not enough to matter really.
Oh and by the way this is way off topic but a couple of pages back Chonicles of the Spellborn was mentioned in this thread and some body replied that they thought it would be delayed till 2008, I called a friend of mine who is in the beta and she said it is still on schedule for release next quarter and is coming along really well.
Cymdai if you dont like the game I dont care because I do like it. Havent played a perfect game yet and prolly never will. Notice its a GAME, some will like it some wont. You are totally wrong to say you cant talk about how the game will be in the future. If its a dead end game that wont last a year I would want to know and yes its just my opinion but I believe this game will go the distance. Your opinions are just that, YOURS. Your objections are just that also, YOURS. Maybe you think that whatever you spew out the masses should gobble up. If everyone was clueless and under the age of 4 that might hold true. I believe some of the people that come here are way above that age and can think for themselves. I never take someone else word for anything. I research as much as I can get as many facts as I can and make my own decision. I got a feeling theres a lot like me out there. One hugh fact is that everyone I have showed the game to has bought it and is playing it and is loving it. Teenagers too which I never thought they would like the game because it is harder to play. Who knows how long they or anyone will play. Thats a personal decision. Posting that all the other games coming out is gonna hurt VG is a wrong statement also. Everytime a new game comes out it either takes a gamer from another game, brings back a player that has quit other games or brings in new gamers. The market is hugh and getting bigger all the time. Theres plenty of room for all the games. Some will be great successes some will fail. Only Time can answer who will do what.
Played EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC, D&D,Tibia, and others. Now playing Vanguard.
Cymdai if you dont like the game I dont care because I do like it. Havent played a perfect game yet and prolly never will. Notice its a GAME, some will like it some wont. You are totally wrong to say you cant talk about how the game will be in the future. If its a dead end game that wont last a year I would want to know and yes its just my opinion but I believe this game will go the distance. Your opinions are just that, YOURS. Your objections are just that also, YOURS. Maybe you think that whatever you spew out the masses should gobble up. If everyone was clueless and under the age of 4 that might hold true. I believe some of the people that come here are way above that age and can think for themselves. I never take someone else word for anything. I research as much as I can get as many facts as I can and make my own decision. I got a feeling theres a lot like me out there. One hugh fact is that everyone I have showed the game to has bought it and is playing it and is loving it. Teenagers too which I never thought they would like the game because it is harder to play. Who knows how long they or anyone will play. Thats a personal decision. Posting that all the other games coming out is gonna hurt VG is a wrong statement also. Everytime a new game comes out it either takes a gamer from another game, brings back a player that has quit other games or brings in new gamers. The market is hugh and getting bigger all the time. Theres plenty of room for all the games. Some will be great successes some will fail. Only Time can answer who will do what.
Played EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC, D&D,Tibia, and others. Now playing Vanguard.
Oops the first poster Thanks that was a good read
Unnecessary rant.
Everything I state is an opinion, so saying it's my opinion is just pointing out the obvious.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I don't think WoW is Vanguard's demographic. Not only do all the people who like Vanguard bash WoW in game and on any forum you visit, WoW is simply a totally different game. If I were a WoW player and visited a Vanguard Fan Site and the game I really liked was being bashed, why would I think I would want to play it? I would think that Vanguard is made for people who are not like me. As a WoW player I would be turned off by the terms "Gamer's game" or "hardcore". WoW players are in it for the fun only and do not take it too seriously except the Raiders of course. Vanguard may be able to pull in some of the WoW Raiders but again those are a very small population and not enough to finance a 30 million dollar game. Contrary to popular belief WoW is not just a game for the youngsters. Indeed a lot of youngsters play it but I think you would be surprised to find a lot of old school EQ1 peeps play the game. I played EQ1 for 3 years and the few people I keep up with from those days play WoW. They have kids, mortgages, and Wifes now and do not have the free time they had during our EQ1 days. Some go "hardcore" on the weekends in instances but for the most part they dabble around at night after their kids go to bed during the week. That can not be done in Vanguard.
I completely agree with Tnice here.
I can't help but giggle endlessly in game when I see people constently bashing WoW in /shout or /region.
I mean, I've played EQ2 and seen the WoW Bashing there, I've played DDO and seen more of it but in Vanguard, it's absolutely rampant. It's in the forums over at tenton and Silkyvenom, it's the IRC chats and it's in the game. I'm amazed any of them have time to play Vanguard at all considering the time they spend bitching about WoW everywhere.
It's not just the player base either, anyone ever notice how Brad and Co. can't help but mention Warcraft in almost every interview they do? They're obssessed.
It's no wonder theres so many similarities between the two games, it's all they could think about for the love of god!
Seriously though, for Vanguard and it's community to move forward, their just going to have to let it go. Let the game speak for itself, let the children debate over which is better and which has this and which has that.
Adult gamers will delight in the knowledge that as gamers we have these two good games are our disposal, we'll sit and enjoy them and their futures to the best of our abilitys. My only fear is that crowd over in Vanguard is so envious, they just can't think that way any more.
... rather like dating a new woman and slamming your old girlfriend to her constantly.. I think that'd get old pretty fast.
I think the constant mentioning of WoW is because it's the "big name" and, from what I've seen, it's always in the context of "Vanguard is deeper than WoW"... or in some other way comparing itself as better than that game. People will see.. "Whoah... WoW is immensely popular, and this McQuaid guy is claiming Vanguard is going to be better?" and there ya go.. they're interested. Could also be a way to help associate the type of game Vanguard is with those who don't really know MMORPGs.. but hear alot about WoW and would make the connection.
As for the constant bashing of WoW in VG and other games.. hell.. people bash WoW in WoW... It's the "cool thing" to do to many -shrug-
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Cymdai if you dont like the game I dont care because I do like it. Havent played a perfect game yet and prolly never will. Notice its a GAME, some will like it some wont. You are totally wrong to say you cant talk about how the game will be in the future. If its a dead end game that wont last a year I would want to know and yes its just my opinion but I believe this game will go the distance. Your opinions are just that, YOURS. Your objections are just that also, YOURS. Maybe you think that whatever you spew out the masses should gobble up. If everyone was clueless and under the age of 4 that might hold true. I believe some of the people that come here are way above that age and can think for themselves. I never take someone else word for anything. I research as much as I can get as many facts as I can and make my own decision. I got a feeling theres a lot like me out there. One hugh fact is that everyone I have showed the game to has bought it and is playing it and is loving it. Teenagers too which I never thought they would like the game because it is harder to play. Who knows how long they or anyone will play. Thats a personal decision. Posting that all the other games coming out is gonna hurt VG is a wrong statement also. Everytime a new game comes out it either takes a gamer from another game, brings back a player that has quit other games or brings in new gamers. The market is hugh and getting bigger all the time. Theres plenty of room for all the games. Some will be great successes some will fail. Only Time can answer who will do what.
Played EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC, D&D,Tibia, and others. Now playing Vanguard.
Oops the first poster Thanks that was a good read
Unnecessary rant.
Everything I state is an opinion, so saying it's my opinion is just pointing out the obvious.
I think he was basically trying to tell you to shut up.. in not so few words.
But yeah... definitely has that endless, run-on-paragraph ranting element to it... was a bit tough to get through.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You clearly have no knowledge whatsoever pertinent to advertising and marketing.
But I'm not gonna get into an argument with a Van, there's no direction it can go but down. If you can't see the obvious PR overtones associated with the article, then you're in complete denial.
I can absolutely, 100% percent assure you that the New York Times wasn't the one knocking on Brad's door begging for the interview though. Since I do work for the media, I can assure you, we get approached by people ALL THE TIME who would like to have a story written about them. If Brad wanted to be written about, he'd pretty much just have to ask, and wa-lah, free face time.
If Brad went up and said "Hi, I'm Brad McQuaid, tbe brainchild behind the first successful MMORPG of all time, and I have a new product, a new vision, and it's going to shake the foundations of the MMORPG industry. Would you like to hear my story?" there's not a whole lot of folks who would say "No". Catch my drift?
For a writer, you really speak in far too many absolutes. I clearly have no knowledge whatsoever pertinent to advertising and marketing? Hmm, ok. New coke was a mistake. There, see how easy it is to prove someone wrong who is speaking this way? Obviously having an article about your game in the New York Times is GREAT PR, if you think I don't know that then you are just clueless. The point was you treated it like it was an advertisement, which IT IS NOT. It's an article and interview.
Show me proof that Brad McQuaid approached the New York Times begging for an interview. As a writer you are entitled to your opinion, but you are just a pure Vanguard troll now. First you just HAD to publish your personal negative preview because the one the other writer submitted was just too positive, and you show your face in almost every thread and keep spreading your negative rhetoric without citing any specific examples because you feel like you have been on your crusade so long you just don't have to have proof anymore.
Be honest with us, what exactly is it that is pushing you to keep coming back to bash everything related to Vanguard? I'm asking seriously. Do you play one of the other games that is out and you feel like Vanguard might steal some of its thunder? I'm sure you aren't deluded enough to know that that sort of thing is very common.
I will be honest with you now. The reason I return here is because message boards are inherently negative. Always have been and seems only to be getting worse as the years go by. If you have been on this earth llong enough you will have noticed it is very easy to hate, and much more difficult to love. I have been playing Vanguard for 4 months now and enjoy every part of it, except of course any bugs and forgetting where I got some quest and searching for the npc for 20 minutes. I come here so that there is at least one positive voice that isn't over exaggerating a games faults. I love video games and to me they are all good because they are such a wonderful diversion from the creeps who can inhabit the real world.
I find it sad when people have to return day in and day out focusing on the negative and saying things that are just outright false. I imagine the cities in which they live just being worse off because of their presence and I hope that they will find something to love enough to change them into more positive people. I have found that something and he is Jesus Christ and he has changed my life in ways I can't even begin to express.
Vanguard, in it's entirety as it stands right now, is an epic undertaking and an amazing game. I haven't liked a game this much since EQ/UO, which I never thought would happen. It just saddens me that people as seemingly intelligent as you could return to bash a game with such high aspirations just because of its slight lack of polish. I wish you well and I mostly hope you find a game you like as much as I like Vanguard.
I write because people will listen.
Someone's got to counter the blind fanboi-ism and rampant hatred running about here. I do so objectively.
I'm sorry that you're just so jaded by the game, I really am. However, my preview was objective, it subtracted the ''hope'' element for the ''reality'' element. I do NOT rate a game on what it can become, I rate it on what it currently is. Right now, this game is a sub-par MMO that's getting WAY too much praise on what it can become in a few weeks/months/years.
I write about this because I don't want potential customers to be misled by posters into thinking this is a great game right now. It isn't, period.
As for swede2, you're just clueless man. I've never seen such rampant paranoia on a forum. CLEARLY I'm a different user because I have similar perspectives with someone. Oh well, I guess all the people saying Vanguard is a great game are the same person too. Hell, there's only 4 users on this forum, we're all just using alts. We've got a Vanboi, a hater, a curious potential customer, and the guy who sits on the fence; we're each just using 100 alts.
lol... is it just me or does that last paragraph echo of Breakfast Club? "A Brain.. an Athlete... A Basket Case... A Princess... and a Criminal..."
I also find the claims of Vanguard being "the best MMO out there" as a bit... umm... premature and very fanboy-ish... hardly objective... The game just came out for Pete's sake...
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Actually, there's a fifth person here. The one that wishes you'd all just shut the holy hell up, already. The signal to noise ratio here has gotten worse than Whineplay, the SWG official forums, and the WoW general forums combined. Perhaps all you Holy Crusaders could meet up behind the gym after school, and settle this once and for all?
Oh, and since objectivity was mentioned, Fox News has fair and objective reporting as well. Or so they say.
You sure it's all the people? Perhaps it goes against the laws of physics, but I'd be willing to bet there's plenty of people who like both games for what they are.EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I was trying to figure out the demographic for Vanguard. I think the SOE guys are smart and identified the right demographic. They used the NYT to speak to that demographic. I see retired persons as the Vanguard's primary demographic. Retired persons have much more free time than students or those in the working age range.
Gameplay mechanics like corpse runs, large race segregated world, mandatory group progression, waiting for boats, long travel times, etc are timesinks that do make the game more realistic but very inconvenient to those with much less time on their hands.
Maybe SOE should start advertising the game on Fox News. It does seem like the game is definitely attracting an older crowd. But I don't think it's going to draw in a lot of 55+ non-gamers. Aside from a few spouses who get sucked in by their significant other, these people seem to be mostly made up of old time RP gamers, probably mostly EQ vets. I fit somewhere in the middle so maybe that's why I'm not quite ready to "retire" to another grind-intensive game.
Maybe AARP magazine might be a better vehicle than the NY Times. On the serious side there are a lot of retired people who do play MMORPG's but because of their fixed incomes I doubt they would want to invest the cash for a system that could run the game decently. I am sure a few would but not enough to matter really.
Oh and by the way this is way off topic but a couple of pages back Chonicles of the Spellborn was mentioned in this thread and some body replied that they thought it would be delayed till 2008, I called a friend of mine who is in the beta and she said it is still on schedule for release next quarter and is coming along really well.
I miss DAoC
Played EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC, D&D,Tibia, and others. Now playing Vanguard.
Oops the first poster Thanks that was a good read
Everything I state is an opinion, so saying it's my opinion is just pointing out the obvious.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I completely agree with Tnice here.
I can't help but giggle endlessly in game when I see people constently bashing WoW in /shout or /region.
I mean, I've played EQ2 and seen the WoW Bashing there, I've played DDO and seen more of it but in Vanguard, it's absolutely rampant. It's in the forums over at tenton and Silkyvenom, it's the IRC chats and it's in the game. I'm amazed any of them have time to play Vanguard at all considering the time they spend bitching about WoW everywhere.
It's not just the player base either, anyone ever notice how Brad and Co. can't help but mention Warcraft in almost every interview they do? They're obssessed.
It's no wonder theres so many similarities between the two games, it's all they could think about for the love of god!
Seriously though, for Vanguard and it's community to move forward, their just going to have to let it go. Let the game speak for itself, let the children debate over which is better and which has this and which has that.
Adult gamers will delight in the knowledge that as gamers we have these two good games are our disposal, we'll sit and enjoy them and their futures to the best of our abilitys. My only fear is that crowd over in Vanguard is so envious, they just can't think that way any more.
... rather like dating a new woman and slamming your old girlfriend to her constantly.. I think that'd get old pretty fast.
I think the constant mentioning of WoW is because it's the "big name" and, from what I've seen, it's always in the context of "Vanguard is deeper than WoW"... or in some other way comparing itself as better than that game. People will see.. "Whoah... WoW is immensely popular, and this McQuaid guy is claiming Vanguard is going to be better?" and there ya go.. they're interested. Could also be a way to help associate the type of game Vanguard is with those who don't really know MMORPGs.. but hear alot about WoW and would make the connection.
As for the constant bashing of WoW in VG and other games.. hell.. people bash WoW in WoW... It's the "cool thing" to do to many -shrug-
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Everything I state is an opinion, so saying it's my opinion is just pointing out the obvious.
I think he was basically trying to tell you to shut up.. in not so few words.
But yeah... definitely has that endless, run-on-paragraph ranting element to it... was a bit tough to get through.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
For a writer, you really speak in far too many absolutes. I clearly have no knowledge whatsoever pertinent to advertising and marketing? Hmm, ok. New coke was a mistake. There, see how easy it is to prove someone wrong who is speaking this way? Obviously having an article about your game in the New York Times is GREAT PR, if you think I don't know that then you are just clueless. The point was you treated it like it was an advertisement, which IT IS NOT. It's an article and interview.
Show me proof that Brad McQuaid approached the New York Times begging for an interview. As a writer you are entitled to your opinion, but you are just a pure Vanguard troll now. First you just HAD to publish your personal negative preview because the one the other writer submitted was just too positive, and you show your face in almost every thread and keep spreading your negative rhetoric without citing any specific examples because you feel like you have been on your crusade so long you just don't have to have proof anymore.
Be honest with us, what exactly is it that is pushing you to keep coming back to bash everything related to Vanguard? I'm asking seriously. Do you play one of the other games that is out and you feel like Vanguard might steal some of its thunder? I'm sure you aren't deluded enough to know that that sort of thing is very common.
I will be honest with you now. The reason I return here is because message boards are inherently negative. Always have been and seems only to be getting worse as the years go by. If you have been on this earth llong enough you will have noticed it is very easy to hate, and much more difficult to love. I have been playing Vanguard for 4 months now and enjoy every part of it, except of course any bugs and forgetting where I got some quest and searching for the npc for 20 minutes. I come here so that there is at least one positive voice that isn't over exaggerating a games faults. I love video games and to me they are all good because they are such a wonderful diversion from the creeps who can inhabit the real world.
I find it sad when people have to return day in and day out focusing on the negative and saying things that are just outright false. I imagine the cities in which they live just being worse off because of their presence and I hope that they will find something to love enough to change them into more positive people. I have found that something and he is Jesus Christ and he has changed my life in ways I can't even begin to express.
Vanguard, in it's entirety as it stands right now, is an epic undertaking and an amazing game. I haven't liked a game this much since EQ/UO, which I never thought would happen. It just saddens me that people as seemingly intelligent as you could return to bash a game with such high aspirations just because of its slight lack of polish. I wish you well and I mostly hope you find a game you like as much as I like Vanguard.
I write because people will listen.
Someone's got to counter the blind fanboi-ism and rampant hatred running about here. I do so objectively.
I'm sorry that you're just so jaded by the game, I really am. However, my preview was objective, it subtracted the ''hope'' element for the ''reality'' element. I do NOT rate a game on what it can become, I rate it on what it currently is. Right now, this game is a sub-par MMO that's getting WAY too much praise on what it can become in a few weeks/months/years.
I write about this because I don't want potential customers to be misled by posters into thinking this is a great game right now. It isn't, period.
As for swede2, you're just clueless man. I've never seen such rampant paranoia on a forum. CLEARLY I'm a different user because I have similar perspectives with someone. Oh well, I guess all the people saying Vanguard is a great game are the same person too. Hell, there's only 4 users on this forum, we're all just using alts. We've got a Vanboi, a hater, a curious potential customer, and the guy who sits on the fence; we're each just using 100 alts.
lol... is it just me or does that last paragraph echo of Breakfast Club? "A Brain.. an Athlete... A Basket Case... A Princess... and a Criminal..."
I also find the claims of Vanguard being "the best MMO out there" as a bit... umm... premature and very fanboy-ish... hardly objective... The game just came out for Pete's sake...
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops