I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
Ok, I have no inside knowledge,. But when a suit says something is impossible, he means "unprofitable".
Obviously it's possible.
Here's the thing, though:
It takes a team to support the game - even if you aren't making any changes, and if you aren't then the game will slowly die.
Put up a new codebase and you need another team to support that. So pre-CU servers need to be profitable enough to at least pay for themselves: for a support team just for them.
So that's two teams, unless you wipe NGE servers. (What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)
This is the codebase which, when they had it, lead to this conclusion:
With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business.
-J Smedley
So what you are suggesting is to double the operating costs, put up a codebase that wasn't "viable as a business" before, and believe that all the players you've pissed-off will just forgive-n-forget, delete their 70th level Shamans, and rush back bringing all their new friends with them?
Annnnd, you can't just roll back, but also have to re-implement every critical thing - every credit dupe, client-crash, server-crash, town-delete bug fixed since ever. Then the old combat system still has issues (granted, they can be fixed without a total rewrite) and there's still a lack of mid- to high-end content... oh, and you've just reverted back to not having content-creation tools...
In my opinion, it's beyond not profitable; it's a waste of time.
You're all way better off trying to get aspects of the game you liked re-implemented .
I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
Ok, I have no inside knowledge,. But when a suit says something is impossible, he means "unprofitable".
Obviously it's possible.
Here's the thing, though:
It takes a team to support the game - even if you aren't making any changes, and if you aren't then the game will slowly die.
Put up a new codebase and you need another team to support that. So pre-CU servers need to be profitable enough to at least pay for themselves: for a support team just for them.
So that's two teams, unless you wipe NGE servers. (What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)
This is the codebase which, when they had it, lead to this conclusion:
With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business.
-J Smedley
So what you are suggesting is to double the operating costs, put up a codebase that wasn't "viable as a business" before, and believe that all the players you've pissed-off will just forgive-n-forget, delete their 70th level Shamans, and rush back bringing all their new friends with them?
Annnnd, you can't just roll back, but also have to re-implement every critical thing - every credit dupe, client-crash, server-crash, town-delete bug fixed since ever. Then the old combat system still has issues (granted, they can be fixed without a total rewrite) and there's still a lack of mid- to high-end content... oh, and you've just reverted back to not having content-creation tools...
In my opinion, it's beyond not profitable; it's a waste of time.
You're all way better off trying to get aspects of the game you liked re-implemented .
So by that statement even running swg today is not profitable and a total waste of time. So why would SOE re-impliment anything into a game structure that has a likely operating cost above its revenue? Less then half the subscribers it had before it made the change makes this system viable? Come on Jeff. If the Pre-CU development staff wasn't viable how is the NGE staff viable? You cannot have it both ways. The NGE combat system by all accounts isn't viable and cannot be fixed without a total client/server side rewrite for a true FPS swg model which was promised. IE true collision detection. So score 1 point for Pre-cu because at least its combat model is fixable without a total rewrite.
Lets look at this content creation tool that you are boosting about. What content has been added to swg since they have had this wonderful content creation tool to create volumes of mid to high level content in swg? There has to date since the NGE been 1 added event I know of that likely used this tool and that was Restuss. Didn't this event cause servers to crash, clients to severely lag out? How was this tool successfully used? What are its benefits? You can add quests but lost over half the subscribers so you could have a tool by all accounts isn't being utilized? Has there been 1 space mission created since JTLS came out?
I know you've said running two support teams is not viable for this game and its a year since this NGE has been released. If by all accounts the NGE isn't viable and Pre-Cu isn't viable as it seems to be why even hold a trivial discussion asking for feedback from the community? What purpose does that serve? If you cannot give the Pre-cu community what they want which is a pre-cu game and the NGE game is frankly too small to support itself either what possible development choice is there but to sunset the game?
If you agree that sunset seems to be a logical choice given both systems failures why would you need but a skelaton crew for the servers? If that was the case you could easily push out a single pre-cu server unsupported in sunset mode with the NGE servers in sunset mode right? Since you seem to be agreeing the code still exists along with all the patch coding. Meaning getting to say pre-cu pub 14 is possible especially if you took test center and just loaded pre-cu on them and said no more test center as the game is sunset and there is no more development being done. Right? That would give 3 pre-cu servers running on a seperate client/patch relationship while the NGE servers ran on there current model.
That to me seems the logical outcome for swg. Hell you could still define Test Center as Test and not run into a licensing issue with LA. Since your just pushing out "pre-cu test code" as its not the "official swg release" Why let the code rot on disk? Wouldn't that work?
P.S. Thanks for taking some time with this community to answer some tough questions.
I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
Why would they think it wouldnt be profitable? cause my math says 300,000= more than the current 10,000 active paying accounts.So why not revamp it back to 32 professions and the combat and call it the NGE2..to save face of course we wouldnt want them to be wrong about the New Garbage Enhancements now would we?
Hey if SOE doesnt want to fix the game back thats fine i voted with my money as did alot of players like me.But no other game has had a overall effect as SWGPRECU..It was a unique and tons of fun for alot of players.Now its the Joke of MMO's and wont ever be profittable without another massive change..
Facts are facts even if we agree to disagree the Game is dying slowly and nothing short of a total revamp will save it..Call it whatever they want too but change it back ,and see how fast they make a profitt..If the bottom line is all that matters as so many have stated, then why in the world would they not Revamp it?Or at least put out a classic server cause we know the code still exsist regaurdless of the statements otherwise.
I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
Not be profitable means "Everyone would move to the classic servers, and ALL the money we wasted and continue to waste on developing the nge and the game as it is is just a loss. We'd have to chalk the nge up as a total failure and invest money bringing the vastly more popular classic game foreward with a group of developers who have no idea how to make it work."
Thus... not profitable. It's much easer to continue putting out a substandard product that less people play that is easy to maintain than to put out a game with more players that their devs wouldn't understand.
It has NOTHING to do with the Classic game not making a great deal of money... and everything to do with the fact that putting it out there to play would make the nge version bleed so much red it'd look like a bloodbank explosion.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Smed's own words, when asked why they didn't keep a classic server.
While I understand the desire to have that server, it's not like we
didn't consider it seriously. We just literally couldn't do it. There
was no practical way for us to make it work due to a lot of constraints
we are under.
Smed
That is not an answer on why. That is another way of wording its impossible for SOE to do.
The closest to an answer I have seen is Jeff Freeman who doesn't work for them anymore. I appreciate Jeff's post and hope to see more feedback from him as he has been pretty insightful on these boards at least today. I posted a suggestion I have heard as a reasonable way to get Pre-CU servers using Test Center and its unique secondary client to host a "sunset" pre-cu publish 14 version of the game. If the code exists, as many seem to believe how is it not possible to restore that code to the test center servers and use them as the Pre-CU servers?
I mean doesn't that basically mean you have a server guy who does backups and restores and that is all the support your going to get? I am pretty sure that is a fair method to do a pre-cu version.
Thats the thing, if SWG has say 10-15k subcribers right now and still manages to stay afloat, I think of the 200K+ that quit, a minimum of say 30-40k would come back, which is over double what they have now I bet. Then you would get them telling folk that the original SWG is back which would bring more old friends back. Then you would also get thousands who have heard SWG vets raving about how good it used to be subscribing to see what we were all talking about. Seems like a win win situation to me.
Dundee
"(What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)"
Well this is $OE we're talking about, so yes is the answer to that, I would guess!
Thats the thing, if SWG has say 10-15k subcribers right now and still manages to stay afloat, I think of the 200K+ that quit, a minimum of say 30-40k would come back, which is over double what they have now I bet. Then you would get them telling folk that the original SWG is back which would bring more old friends back. Then you would also get thousands who have heard SWG vets raving about how good it used to be subscribing to see what we were all talking about. Seems like a win win situation to me. Dundee "(What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)" Well this is $OE we're talking about, so yes is the answer to that, I would guess!
Dundee
if 300,000 players didnt matter why would the few thousand left matter? and your wrong about twice it would be a 4th time..ill explain
1-The first Jedi revamp called publish 9 it affected few thousand players but it was still a bad choice to do so late in the game
2-The CU-it wasnt suppose to be what we got there were numerous SOE people past and present who stated that what we got wasn't what was originally planned..
3-The New Garbage Enhancements- Nothing i can say about this mess
so there you go 3 times the game changed on the current playerbase but yet you would think 300,000 that were effected would matter more than the skeleton crew left..Im so confused at why this game has had so many changes it needed bug fixes and content not 3 revamps and massive changes..Gamers that spend their time and money dont want the game changed..We paid for Galaxies:a Empire divided we got the shaft..so tell me why would anything change?
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
Hm. Well there's the cost of making that happen, then the cost of maintaining both. So those are some dollars.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
Hm. Well there's the cost of making that happen, then the cost of maintaining both. So those are some dollars.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
The past players are hardly imaginary. The gamble for past players isn't weither they exist but if enough of them to make it worthwhile would play again and that I'd guess is a valid worry. As much as I loved PreCU SWG I won't play a SoE run game after the way the NGE was done.
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
Hm. Well there's the cost of making that happen, then the cost of maintaining both. So those are some dollars.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
I'd say it is the costs of making servers for past immaginary players, along with the probability of demonstrating the past year's (two? Depends on the date you folks started developiong the NGE) worth of development was completely wasted money, is why. Unless LucasArts is still really pissed off at SOE, I doubt they would prevent them from opening classic servers.
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
Hm. Well there's the cost of making that happen, then the cost of maintaining both. So those are some dollars.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
I'd say it is the costs of making servers for past immaginary players, along with the probability of demonstrating the past year's (two? Depends on the date you folks started developiong the NGE) worth of development was completely wasted money, is why. Unless LucasArts is still really pissed off at SOE, I doubt they would prevent them from opening classic servers.
I could see SoE only having a license from LA to run only one Star Wars MMO and two version of the one MMO could cause trouble with that.... I've got nothing to back that up with though, it's just completely random guessing.
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
Hm. Well there's the cost of making that happen, then the cost of maintaining both. So those are some dollars.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
I'd say it is the costs of making servers for past immaginary players, along with the probability of demonstrating the past year's (two? Depends on the date you folks started developiong the NGE) worth of development was completely wasted money, is why. Unless LucasArts is still really pissed off at SOE, I doubt they would prevent them from opening classic servers.
I could see SoE only having a license from LA to run only one Star Wars MMO and two version of the one MMO could cause trouble with that.... I've got nothing to back that up with though, it's just completely random guessing.
There has been a great deal of friction between LEC and SOE recently. Most of it has been cleared up, but I don't think there would have been a pre-existing clause in the licensing contract that would prevent SOE from running classic servers. I think SOE could mend a large number of fences with classic servers, but I would agree that they wouldn't be profitable, as long as the NGE version is the main focus of development. If SOE pops up a classic server, or two, without investing any further development, it will die out eventually as people get bored. I fully believe that most of the current players would move to the classic servers (hence the still constant calls on the official forums for pre-NGE servers that keeps the developers from listening to the community, as per John Smedley), which would leave the NGE servers even more barren of life than they already are.
Now, if you were on the Board of Directors of a company, and the company just provided concrete evidence that they just wasted several million dollars working on something that actually drove away revenue, when they could have done nothing and kept a larger revenue stream, wouldn't you be a little upset? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who made the decision to drive away most of the revenue? Opening one or more pre-NGE servers would cost a couple folks in SOE's management their jobs. That risk is too great to take.
Now, if you were on the Board of Directors of a company, and the company just provided concrete evidence that they just wasted several million dollars working on something that actually drove away revenue, when they could have done nothing and kept a larger revenue stream, wouldn't you be a little upset? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who made the decision to drive away most of the revenue? Opening one or more pre-NGE servers would cost a couple folks in SOE's management their jobs. That risk is too great to take.
I think that some of guys here are dreaming that, if SOE/LA starts PRE-CU servers, then all old players would magically come back and you could continue your life in SWG fantasy world like nothing happened.
I believe that majority of old players will never come back. Whatever SOE or LA will do - they have already lost veteran players trust forever. At least I am not ready to invest anymore time or money to companies that seem to think that they can do whatever they want without negotiations with another party - their customers. I have also found my new MMO community from another game and I am not going to leave them.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
$OE should just release the pre-cu code, this will keep us occupied and I think basicly stop most of the negative press and marketing we all do against them. Would be a sign of peace on the part of $OE towards the vets they know they dumped on.
Let private servers deal with the pre-cu as long as no one tries to make any money out of it with subscriptions etc. As is planned with the duck.
I know they spent a crap load of money on developing it but if they aint gonna use, why not let others?
Now, if you were on the Board of Directors of a company,
John Smedley doesn't report to a Board of Directors, he reports to Yair Landau, president of Sony Pictures Digital.
and the company just provided concrete evidence that they just wasted several million dollars working on something that actually drove away revenue, when they could have done nothing and kept a larger revenue stream,wouldn't you be a little upset? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who made the decision to drive away most of the revenue?
Of course not, that's the very definition of risk: if you fail, you're worse off than if you'd done nothing.
Nobody is wants an exec who doesn't take any risks and no one expects an exec who never fails. As long as the company can afford to take those risks - as long as the quarterlies to meet or beat projections - then you are doing a fine, fine job.
Even if you took a big risk and missed, if the quarterlies still met projections, well good on ya.
Opening one or more pre-NGE servers would cost a couple folks in SOE's management their jobs. That risk is too great to take.
Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually believe this stuff?
Has anyone even considered their hands quite possibly could be tied in this situation ? They may have the code , They may even have the money . But that means squat if they are bound by contract , Or they are at their spending limit . We all know that their parent company is in dire need of rebuilding their image and their bank account . Sony as whole is in financial turmoil right now , I really don't think this is the time they should be taking anymore risks .Sure it could possibly bring in some money , But there at one point was a possibility NGE or even CU could have brought in money . We all know how that turned out .
I wish as much as anyone that this never happened Or that we could regain our game . At this point , though getting fired up or angered over Smeds or anyone else at SOE's excuses . Isn't going to cause anyone any heartache but yourself .
So be happy damn it
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Opening one or more pre-NGE servers would cost a couple folks in SOE's management their jobs. That risk is too great to take.
Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually believe this stuff?
I'm not speaking for Obee but I'd find it possible to believe for two reasons. One, the whole attituide and way the NGE was presented to the current players rang of the "we don't care what you want we will tell you what you like" arrogance. Which according to the current CEO of Sony Howard Stringer is a problem in the main Sony company as well. Two, statements from SoE along the lines of "we would shut down the servers before we go back to PreNGE servers". Both scream a big mix of arrogrance and stubborn pride which don't mix well with good business practices/behaviour.
I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
Agreed and understood.
As one of the most vocal about (Or was) getting the game back, I cannot at all see how this could be a affordable concept.
I have said it before and I will say it again, There is no business man in his right mind that sees SWG as somthing worth investing in.
Facelift or not, it is out dated and now tainted. You can only use so many carrots to get people to play and only so many free slots, or server transfers to keep them.
Sooner or later people see that the leadership has dwindled, been replaced over and over, after being told to "follow" Helios, people should at least understand that trying to go back now is not even a option as far as costs go.
This product is now upside down in the profit area and investment level for SOE to try to add new things to it. I would be very very very suprised if they tried to make a expansion at this point.
(New in game content should not be charged as a milking at this point) -- If anything they should cut the fee to 5.00 a month and be glad they have people that are willing to pay them for that product.
(Sorry Jeff) no offense... BUT I know you were paid to be part of the NGE process.... at the same time, they also thought it would be some sort of a cash cow... or at least a (New marketing concept to get the "new" gamer into SWG) --- I have to think did you actually think it would work like that? I know you can't say much but I mean really did you think this was going to get MORE people into SWG?
Or is that to loose of a question?
I mean there was hundreds of thousands of us emailing Mr. Smedley telling him NOT to do this and it would clear us out.... of course now, he has agreed lol.. but still.. Did you guys really think this would work?
(Not sure if you can answer this, if you can't) I do understand.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I think that some of guys here are dreaming that, if SOE/LA starts PRE-CU servers, then all old players would magically come back and you could continue your life in SWG fantasy world like nothing happened. I believe that majority of old players will never come back. Whatever SOE or LA will do - they have already lost veteran players trust forever. At least I am not ready to invest anymore time or money to companies that seem to think that they can do whatever they want without negotiations with another party - their customers. I have also found my new MMO community from another game and I am not going to leave them.
This is a very realistic statement.
I sadly agree with it.... I wish this was wrong too.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I love how they say pre-cu is impossible and never list a reason why. I'd like that responsibly addressed before the discussion could continue. Is that really to much to ask?
Impossible means "It would not be profitable."
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
Ok, I have no inside knowledge,. But when a suit says something is impossible, he means "unprofitable".
Obviously it's possible.
Here's the thing, though:
It takes a team to support the game - even if you aren't making any changes, and if you aren't then the game will slowly die.
Put up a new codebase and you need another team to support that. So pre-CU servers need to be profitable enough to at least pay for themselves: for a support team just for them.
So that's two teams, unless you wipe NGE servers. (What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)
This is the codebase which, when they had it, lead to this conclusion:
With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business.
-J Smedley
So what you are suggesting is to double the operating costs, put up a codebase that wasn't "viable as a business" before, and believe that all the players you've pissed-off will just forgive-n-forget, delete their 70th level Shamans, and rush back bringing all their new friends with them?
Annnnd, you can't just roll back, but also have to re-implement every critical thing - every credit dupe, client-crash, server-crash, town-delete bug fixed since ever. Then the old combat system still has issues (granted, they can be fixed without a total rewrite) and there's still a lack of mid- to high-end content... oh, and you've just reverted back to not having content-creation tools...
In my opinion, it's beyond not profitable; it's a waste of time.
You're all way better off trying to get aspects of the game you liked re-implemented .
Well that's the closest thing I've ever seen to an explanation of what "going back to pre-cu is impossible" might mean. I appreciate the candor in your analysis. I'd rather get some information any day instead of just the "party line."
I wonder though how many people would be happy with their pre-cu sandbox, bugs and all, even without additional content. This was a "sandbox" after all, just living in the virtual world with the freedom to explore it, interact with the community, and continually explore possible character builds seemed to keep a lot of people happy.
Sometimes when SOE looks at its options, it seems as though they define them too rigidly. They appear to make assumptions about what certain directions "must" entail, that I'm not sure are really that written in stone.
Also, for those that want their sandbox back, most if not all do not want SOE to take the NGE away from those that enjoy it. They most definitely do not want SOE to do the same thing to a gaming community twice. They want NGE folks to have that option, and enjoy it. At the same time, they want the option of pre-cu servers.
As for possible SOE polls. I'd like to see the following information collected:
What type of server(s) would you like to see running alongside NGE servers? a) pre-cu, b) cu, c) either one as long as it's not NGE.
Would you play on this type of server, even with all known bugs and issues?
In my mind I'd like to see people that like the simplified quest-based NGE, have the option to play it. I'd also like others that enjoy community, complexity and character development to have the option to play in a sandbox..
Originally posted by Obee Now, if you were on the Board of Directors of a company,
John Smedley doesn't report to a Board of Directors, he reports to Yair Landau, president of Sony Pictures Digital.
and the company just provided concrete evidence that they just wasted several million dollars working on something that actually drove away revenue, when they could have done nothing and kept a larger revenue stream,wouldn't you be a little upset? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who made the decision to drive away most of the revenue?
Of course not, that's the very definition of risk: if you fail, you're worse off than if you'd done nothing.
Nobody is wants an exec who doesn't take any risks and no one expects an exec who never fails. As long as the company can afford to take those risks - as long as the quarterlies to meet or beat projections - then you are doing a fine, fine job.
Even if you took a big risk and missed, if the quarterlies still met projections, well good on ya.
Opening one or more pre-NGE servers would cost a couple folks in SOE's management their jobs. That risk is too great to take.
Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually believe this stuff?
No, I actually believe there would be the possibility of one or more SOE executives losing their jobs if classic servers were offered. The NGE was a major black eye to SOE's reputation. It also cost the company a large number of customers. If classic servers were opened and attracted more players than the NGE servers, it would be a big flashing light that somebody screwed up in a major way. In a major way that cost a bunch of money. Companies like risk, when it succeeds. Executives get forced to resign over failed risks all the time.
You folks spent a lot of time and money developing something that had the opposite affect that it was intended to have. The NGE wasn't just a failed product, it has done damage to SOE, in reputation and, more importantly, in the bank account. The NGE is now held up as an example, even by folks currently at SOE, as an example of what not to do. The only thing opening classic servers would accomplish is to prove that you folks could have done nothing and been better off than the company is now.
I agree with Obee here. Opening classic servers, and having them jam-packed while NGE servers remain empty, would be absolute proof of what right now is only (well-founded, but nevertheless) speculation. We all know SWG was hemorrhaging players before the CU, and after the CU it was hemorrhaging even more so, so the NGE was an attempt to reverse that. There is no actual proof that, had the NGE not happened, all the people who canceled in late 2005, would not have done so anyway -- because the lines on the graph were already heading down pretty precipitously.
Now, I think most of us probably believe that the decline, though it may well have continued, would not have been so dramatic as the avalanche of cancellations that occurred in Nov-Dec 2005. However, because no classic servers were ever left up, there is really no hard data to prove us right. It's all speculation. The people responsible for the NGE can thus point to the pre-NGE downward trend and say, "That would've happened anyway... and might have been worse without the NGE."
Indeed, one thing the NGE did was chase off anyone but the real hard-line loyalists... the people who say things like, "No matter what they do, as long as it's Star Wars I will be here forever." (I have friends, more than a few, who have this, by my lights extremely bananas, perspective.) Since the rest of us left, the NGE has been pretty stable in subs numbers -- low, but not hemorrhaging continuously as it did in summer/fall 2005. Therefore, again, since there is no way to prove them wrong, the NGE creators can point to that stabilization and say, "OK, we lost a bunch of subs but we finally stopped the bleeding."
Here again, those of us who left would probably say, "You'd have more today than that if you hadn't done NGE." And my guess would be that's right, but it's just speculation.
However, if they opened up classic servers and suddenly thousands of new accounts flooded into SOE as a result of it, this would prove us right, and prove that the subs drop-off was caused by the NGE, and was not merely a continuation of a previous downward trend.
And I think Obee is right... they don't dare open classic servers, because they know there's a better-than-even chance that those will fill up right away. Because even the loyalists who say, "As long as it's Star Wars...", many of them will prefer pre-CU/NGE. If they only have ONE Star Wars game, and it's NGE, they stick with it. But if you offered them pre-CU and NGE, a goodly number of them would switch over (because it's still Star Wars, so they can pick whatever game they want). And then there are all the old vets who liked pre-CU who'd come back (not me, but many), and so forth. It might not be a flood, but there's a very high chance it would be, and the results would prove numerically (rather than by speculation/inference) that the NGE was a major mistake.
And so they can't open up those servers, for fear of providing the noose with which they are hung.
Comments
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
Ok, I have no inside knowledge,. But when a suit says something is impossible, he means "unprofitable".
Obviously it's possible.
Here's the thing, though:
It takes a team to support the game - even if you aren't making any changes, and if you aren't then the game will slowly die.
Put up a new codebase and you need another team to support that. So pre-CU servers need to be profitable enough to at least pay for themselves: for a support team just for them.
So that's two teams, unless you wipe NGE servers. (What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)
This is the codebase which, when they had it, lead to this conclusion:
So what you are suggesting is to double the operating costs, put up a codebase that wasn't "viable as a business" before, and believe that all the players you've pissed-off will just forgive-n-forget, delete their 70th level Shamans, and rush back bringing all their new friends with them?
Annnnd, you can't just roll back, but also have to re-implement every critical thing - every credit dupe, client-crash, server-crash, town-delete bug fixed since ever. Then the old combat system still has issues (granted, they can be fixed without a total rewrite) and there's still a lack of mid- to high-end content... oh, and you've just reverted back to not having content-creation tools...
In my opinion, it's beyond not profitable; it's a waste of time.
You're all way better off trying to get aspects of the game you liked re-implemented .
Jeff Freeman
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
Ok, I have no inside knowledge,. But when a suit says something is impossible, he means "unprofitable".
Obviously it's possible.
Here's the thing, though:
It takes a team to support the game - even if you aren't making any changes, and if you aren't then the game will slowly die.
Put up a new codebase and you need another team to support that. So pre-CU servers need to be profitable enough to at least pay for themselves: for a support team just for them.
So that's two teams, unless you wipe NGE servers. (What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)
This is the codebase which, when they had it, lead to this conclusion:
So what you are suggesting is to double the operating costs, put up a codebase that wasn't "viable as a business" before, and believe that all the players you've pissed-off will just forgive-n-forget, delete their 70th level Shamans, and rush back bringing all their new friends with them?
Annnnd, you can't just roll back, but also have to re-implement every critical thing - every credit dupe, client-crash, server-crash, town-delete bug fixed since ever. Then the old combat system still has issues (granted, they can be fixed without a total rewrite) and there's still a lack of mid- to high-end content... oh, and you've just reverted back to not having content-creation tools...
In my opinion, it's beyond not profitable; it's a waste of time.
You're all way better off trying to get aspects of the game you liked re-implemented .
So by that statement even running swg today is not profitable and a total waste of time. So why would SOE re-impliment anything into a game structure that has a likely operating cost above its revenue? Less then half the subscribers it had before it made the change makes this system viable? Come on Jeff. If the Pre-CU development staff wasn't viable how is the NGE staff viable? You cannot have it both ways. The NGE combat system by all accounts isn't viable and cannot be fixed without a total client/server side rewrite for a true FPS swg model which was promised. IE true collision detection. So score 1 point for Pre-cu because at least its combat model is fixable without a total rewrite.
Lets look at this content creation tool that you are boosting about. What content has been added to swg since they have had this wonderful content creation tool to create volumes of mid to high level content in swg? There has to date since the NGE been 1 added event I know of that likely used this tool and that was Restuss. Didn't this event cause servers to crash, clients to severely lag out? How was this tool successfully used? What are its benefits? You can add quests but lost over half the subscribers so you could have a tool by all accounts isn't being utilized? Has there been 1 space mission created since JTLS came out?
I know you've said running two support teams is not viable for this game and its a year since this NGE has been released. If by all accounts the NGE isn't viable and Pre-Cu isn't viable as it seems to be why even hold a trivial discussion asking for feedback from the community? What purpose does that serve? If you cannot give the Pre-cu community what they want which is a pre-cu game and the NGE game is frankly too small to support itself either what possible development choice is there but to sunset the game?
If you agree that sunset seems to be a logical choice given both systems failures why would you need but a skelaton crew for the servers? If that was the case you could easily push out a single pre-cu server unsupported in sunset mode with the NGE servers in sunset mode right? Since you seem to be agreeing the code still exists along with all the patch coding. Meaning getting to say pre-cu pub 14 is possible especially if you took test center and just loaded pre-cu on them and said no more test center as the game is sunset and there is no more development being done. Right? That would give 3 pre-cu servers running on a seperate client/patch relationship while the NGE servers ran on there current model.
That to me seems the logical outcome for swg. Hell you could still define Test Center as Test and not run into a licensing issue with LA. Since your just pushing out "pre-cu test code" as its not the "official swg release" Why let the code rot on disk? Wouldn't that work?
P.S. Thanks for taking some time with this community to answer some tough questions.
Why would they think it wouldnt be profitable? cause my math says 300,000= more than the current 10,000 active paying accounts.So why not revamp it back to 32 professions and the combat and call it the NGE2..to save face of course we wouldnt want them to be wrong about the New Garbage Enhancements now would we?
Hey if SOE doesnt want to fix the game back thats fine i voted with my money as did alot of players like me.But no other game has had a overall effect as SWGPRECU..It was a unique and tons of fun for alot of players.Now its the Joke of MMO's and wont ever be profittable without another massive change..
Facts are facts even if we agree to disagree the Game is dying slowly and nothing short of a total revamp will save it..Call it whatever they want too but change it back ,and see how fast they make a profitt..If the bottom line is all that matters as so many have stated, then why in the world would they not Revamp it?Or at least put out a classic server cause we know the code still exsist regaurdless of the statements otherwise.
Not be profitable means "Everyone would move to the classic servers, and ALL the money we wasted and continue to waste on developing the nge and the game as it is is just a loss. We'd have to chalk the nge up as a total failure and invest money bringing the vastly more popular classic game foreward with a group of developers who have no idea how to make it work."
Thus... not profitable. It's much easer to continue putting out a substandard product that less people play that is easy to maintain than to put out a game with more players that their devs wouldn't understand.
It has NOTHING to do with the Classic game not making a great deal of money... and everything to do with the fact that putting it out there to play would make the nge version bleed so much red it'd look like a bloodbank explosion.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Smed's own words, when asked why they didn't keep a classic server.
While I understand the desire to have that server, it's not like we
didn't consider it seriously. We just literally couldn't do it. There
was no practical way for us to make it work due to a lot of constraints
we are under.
Smed
That is not an answer on why. That is another way of wording its impossible for SOE to do.
The closest to an answer I have seen is Jeff Freeman who doesn't work for them anymore. I appreciate Jeff's post and hope to see more feedback from him as he has been pretty insightful on these boards at least today. I posted a suggestion I have heard as a reasonable way to get Pre-CU servers using Test Center and its unique secondary client to host a "sunset" pre-cu publish 14 version of the game. If the code exists, as many seem to believe how is it not possible to restore that code to the test center servers and use them as the Pre-CU servers?
I mean doesn't that basically mean you have a server guy who does backups and restores and that is all the support your going to get? I am pretty sure that is a fair method to do a pre-cu version.
Thats the thing, if SWG has say 10-15k subcribers right now and still manages to stay afloat, I think of the 200K+ that quit, a minimum of say 30-40k would come back, which is over double what they have now I bet. Then you would get them telling folk that the original SWG is back which would bring more old friends back. Then you would also get thousands who have heard SWG vets raving about how good it used to be subscribing to see what we were all talking about. Seems like a win win situation to me.
Dundee
"(What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)"
Well this is $OE we're talking about, so yes is the answer to that, I would guess!
Dundee
if 300,000 players didnt matter why would the few thousand left matter? and your wrong about twice it would be a 4th time..ill explain
1-The first Jedi revamp called publish 9 it affected few thousand players but it was still a bad choice to do so late in the game
2-The CU-it wasnt suppose to be what we got there were numerous SOE people past and present who stated that what we got wasn't what was originally planned..
3-The New Garbage Enhancements- Nothing i can say about this mess
so there you go 3 times the game changed on the current playerbase but yet you would think 300,000 that were effected would matter more than the skeleton crew left..Im so confused at why this game has had so many changes it needed bug fixes and content not 3 revamps and massive changes..Gamers that spend their time and money dont want the game changed..We paid for Galaxies:a Empire divided we got the shaft..so tell me why would anything change?
Simple solutions to solve this issue would be to offer both systems and let the Gamers decided were to spend their money..Mine would be spent on The PRECU version...all 4 accounts would pop back up and 4x15 is more than what they get from me now which is 0....
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
Jeff Freeman
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
The past players are hardly imaginary. The gamble for past players isn't weither they exist but if enough of them to make it worthwhile would play again and that I'd guess is a valid worry. As much as I loved PreCU SWG I won't play a SoE run game after the way the NGE was done.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
I'd say it is the costs of making servers for past immaginary players, along with the probability of demonstrating the past year's (two? Depends on the date you folks started developiong the NGE) worth of development was completely wasted money, is why. Unless LucasArts is still really pissed off at SOE, I doubt they would prevent them from opening classic servers.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
I'd say it is the costs of making servers for past immaginary players, along with the probability of demonstrating the past year's (two? Depends on the date you folks started developiong the NGE) worth of development was completely wasted money, is why. Unless LucasArts is still really pissed off at SOE, I doubt they would prevent them from opening classic servers.
I could see SoE only having a license from LA to run only one Star Wars MMO and two version of the one MMO could cause trouble with that.... I've got nothing to back that up with though, it's just completely random guessing.
All that at a gamble: this time not on future imaginary players, but on past imaginary players.
Then you've got two teams worth of developers tied-up supporting an old game, when half or more of them ought to be working on the next game.
But I could be totally wrong, Maybe there are contractual restrictions and such.
I'd say it is the costs of making servers for past immaginary players, along with the probability of demonstrating the past year's (two? Depends on the date you folks started developiong the NGE) worth of development was completely wasted money, is why. Unless LucasArts is still really pissed off at SOE, I doubt they would prevent them from opening classic servers.
I could see SoE only having a license from LA to run only one Star Wars MMO and two version of the one MMO could cause trouble with that.... I've got nothing to back that up with though, it's just completely random guessing.
There has been a great deal of friction between LEC and SOE recently. Most of it has been cleared up, but I don't think there would have been a pre-existing clause in the licensing contract that would prevent SOE from running classic servers. I think SOE could mend a large number of fences with classic servers, but I would agree that they wouldn't be profitable, as long as the NGE version is the main focus of development. If SOE pops up a classic server, or two, without investing any further development, it will die out eventually as people get bored. I fully believe that most of the current players would move to the classic servers (hence the still constant calls on the official forums for pre-NGE servers that keeps the developers from listening to the community, as per John Smedley), which would leave the NGE servers even more barren of life than they already are.
Now, if you were on the Board of Directors of a company, and the company just provided concrete evidence that they just wasted several million dollars working on something that actually drove away revenue, when they could have done nothing and kept a larger revenue stream, wouldn't you be a little upset? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who made the decision to drive away most of the revenue? Opening one or more pre-NGE servers would cost a couple folks in SOE's management their jobs. That risk is too great to take.
I think that some of guys here are dreaming that, if SOE/LA starts PRE-CU servers, then all old players would magically come back and you could continue your life in SWG fantasy world like nothing happened.
I believe that majority of old players will never come back. Whatever SOE or LA will do - they have already lost veteran players trust forever. At least I am not ready to invest anymore time or money to companies that seem to think that they can do whatever they want without negotiations with another party - their customers. I have also found my new MMO community from another game and I am not going to leave them.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
$OE should just release the pre-cu code, this will keep us occupied and I think basicly stop most of the negative press and marketing we all do against them. Would be a sign of peace on the part of $OE towards the vets they know they dumped on.
Let private servers deal with the pre-cu as long as no one tries to make any money out of it with subscriptions etc. As is planned with the duck.
I know they spent a crap load of money on developing it but if they aint gonna use, why not let others?
John Smedley doesn't report to a Board of Directors, he reports to Yair Landau, president of Sony Pictures Digital.
Of course not, that's the very definition of risk: if you fail, you're worse off than if you'd done nothing.
Nobody is wants an exec who doesn't take any risks and no one expects an exec who never fails. As long as the company can afford to take those risks - as long as the quarterlies to meet or beat projections - then you are doing a fine, fine job.
Even if you took a big risk and missed, if the quarterlies still met projections, well good on ya.
Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually believe this stuff?
Jeff Freeman
I wish as much as anyone that this never happened Or that we could regain our game . At this point , though getting fired up or angered over Smeds or anyone else at SOE's excuses . Isn't going to cause anyone any heartache but yourself .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually believe this stuff?
I'm not speaking for Obee but I'd find it possible to believe for two reasons. One, the whole attituide and way the NGE was presented to the current players rang of the "we don't care what you want we will tell you what you like" arrogance. Which according to the current CEO of Sony Howard Stringer is a problem in the main Sony company as well. Two, statements from SoE along the lines of "we would shut down the servers before we go back to PreNGE servers". Both scream a big mix of arrogrance and stubborn pride which don't mix well with good business practices/behaviour.
Agreed and understood.
As one of the most vocal about (Or was) getting the game back, I cannot at all see how this could be a affordable concept.
I have said it before and I will say it again, There is no business man in his right mind that sees SWG as somthing worth investing in.
Facelift or not, it is out dated and now tainted. You can only use so many carrots to get people to play and only so many free slots, or server transfers to keep them.
Sooner or later people see that the leadership has dwindled, been replaced over and over, after being told to "follow" Helios, people should at least understand that trying to go back now is not even a option as far as costs go.
This product is now upside down in the profit area and investment level for SOE to try to add new things to it. I would be very very very suprised if they tried to make a expansion at this point.
(New in game content should not be charged as a milking at this point) -- If anything they should cut the fee to 5.00 a month and be glad they have people that are willing to pay them for that product.
(Sorry Jeff) no offense... BUT I know you were paid to be part of the NGE process.... at the same time, they also thought it would be some sort of a cash cow... or at least a (New marketing concept to get the "new" gamer into SWG) --- I have to think did you actually think it would work like that? I know you can't say much but I mean really did you think this was going to get MORE people into SWG?
Or is that to loose of a question?
I mean there was hundreds of thousands of us emailing Mr. Smedley telling him NOT to do this and it would clear us out.... of course now, he has agreed lol.. but still.. Did you guys really think this would work?
(Not sure if you can answer this, if you can't) I do understand.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
This is a very realistic statement.
I sadly agree with it.... I wish this was wrong too.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
So the NGE version with less then half the population of pre-cu is profitable?
I guess in SOE logic that is a valid expression of impossible.
Ok, I have no inside knowledge,. But when a suit says something is impossible, he means "unprofitable".
Obviously it's possible.
Here's the thing, though:
It takes a team to support the game - even if you aren't making any changes, and if you aren't then the game will slowly die.
Put up a new codebase and you need another team to support that. So pre-CU servers need to be profitable enough to at least pay for themselves: for a support team just for them.
So that's two teams, unless you wipe NGE servers. (What? Just tell all the current players that the game is radically changing, maybe give them a respec, plus a special painting for the former-jedi, when their class is removed as an option... Could one company even do that do its players twice?)
This is the codebase which, when they had it, lead to this conclusion:
So what you are suggesting is to double the operating costs, put up a codebase that wasn't "viable as a business" before, and believe that all the players you've pissed-off will just forgive-n-forget, delete their 70th level Shamans, and rush back bringing all their new friends with them?
Annnnd, you can't just roll back, but also have to re-implement every critical thing - every credit dupe, client-crash, server-crash, town-delete bug fixed since ever. Then the old combat system still has issues (granted, they can be fixed without a total rewrite) and there's still a lack of mid- to high-end content... oh, and you've just reverted back to not having content-creation tools...
In my opinion, it's beyond not profitable; it's a waste of time.
You're all way better off trying to get aspects of the game you liked re-implemented .
Well that's the closest thing I've ever seen to an explanation of what "going back to pre-cu is impossible" might mean. I appreciate the candor in your analysis. I'd rather get some information any day instead of just the "party line."
I wonder though how many people would be happy with their pre-cu sandbox, bugs and all, even without additional content. This was a "sandbox" after all, just living in the virtual world with the freedom to explore it, interact with the community, and continually explore possible character builds seemed to keep a lot of people happy.
Sometimes when SOE looks at its options, it seems as though they define them too rigidly. They appear to make assumptions about what certain directions "must" entail, that I'm not sure are really that written in stone.
Also, for those that want their sandbox back, most if not all do not want SOE to take the NGE away from those that enjoy it. They most definitely do not want SOE to do the same thing to a gaming community twice. They want NGE folks to have that option, and enjoy it. At the same time, they want the option of pre-cu servers.
As for possible SOE polls. I'd like to see the following information collected:
What type of server(s) would you like to see running alongside NGE servers? a) pre-cu, b) cu, c) either one as long as it's not NGE.
Would you play on this type of server, even with all known bugs and issues?
In my mind I'd like to see people that like the simplified quest-based NGE, have the option to play it. I'd also like others that enjoy community, complexity and character development to have the option to play in a sandbox..
Thinking out loud here
Arc
John Smedley doesn't report to a Board of Directors, he reports to Yair Landau, president of Sony Pictures Digital.
Of course not, that's the very definition of risk: if you fail, you're worse off than if you'd done nothing.
Nobody is wants an exec who doesn't take any risks and no one expects an exec who never fails. As long as the company can afford to take those risks - as long as the quarterlies to meet or beat projections - then you are doing a fine, fine job.
Even if you took a big risk and missed, if the quarterlies still met projections, well good on ya.
Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually believe this stuff?
No, I actually believe there would be the possibility of one or more SOE executives losing their jobs if classic servers were offered. The NGE was a major black eye to SOE's reputation. It also cost the company a large number of customers. If classic servers were opened and attracted more players than the NGE servers, it would be a big flashing light that somebody screwed up in a major way. In a major way that cost a bunch of money. Companies like risk, when it succeeds. Executives get forced to resign over failed risks all the time.
You folks spent a lot of time and money developing something that had the opposite affect that it was intended to have. The NGE wasn't just a failed product, it has done damage to SOE, in reputation and, more importantly, in the bank account. The NGE is now held up as an example, even by folks currently at SOE, as an example of what not to do. The only thing opening classic servers would accomplish is to prove that you folks could have done nothing and been better off than the company is now.
Now, I think most of us probably believe that the decline, though it may well have continued, would not have been so dramatic as the avalanche of cancellations that occurred in Nov-Dec 2005. However, because no classic servers were ever left up, there is really no hard data to prove us right. It's all speculation. The people responsible for the NGE can thus point to the pre-NGE downward trend and say, "That would've happened anyway... and might have been worse without the NGE."
Indeed, one thing the NGE did was chase off anyone but the real hard-line loyalists... the people who say things like, "No matter what they do, as long as it's Star Wars I will be here forever." (I have friends, more than a few, who have this, by my lights extremely bananas, perspective.) Since the rest of us left, the NGE has been pretty stable in subs numbers -- low, but not hemorrhaging continuously as it did in summer/fall 2005. Therefore, again, since there is no way to prove them wrong, the NGE creators can point to that stabilization and say, "OK, we lost a bunch of subs but we finally stopped the bleeding."
Here again, those of us who left would probably say, "You'd have more today than that if you hadn't done NGE." And my guess would be that's right, but it's just speculation.
However, if they opened up classic servers and suddenly thousands of new accounts flooded into SOE as a result of it, this would prove us right, and prove that the subs drop-off was caused by the NGE, and was not merely a continuation of a previous downward trend.
And I think Obee is right... they don't dare open classic servers, because they know there's a better-than-even chance that those will fill up right away. Because even the loyalists who say, "As long as it's Star Wars...", many of them will prefer pre-CU/NGE. If they only have ONE Star Wars game, and it's NGE, they stick with it. But if you offered them pre-CU and NGE, a goodly number of them would switch over (because it's still Star Wars, so they can pick whatever game they want). And then there are all the old vets who liked pre-CU who'd come back (not me, but many), and so forth. It might not be a flood, but there's a very high chance it would be, and the results would prove numerically (rather than by speculation/inference) that the NGE was a major mistake.
And so they can't open up those servers, for fear of providing the noose with which they are hung.
C