It's a dead-end game and I reckon you better get out of it before you stand there with the best gear and realises you've just lost about 2 years of your life, 6 months (?) infront of the compy, days & weeks that you will never see again, and to what point? I do feel an urge to start playing again but I keep reminding myself that each day inside there, is like a deja vu. Peace people, hope I diden't flame - argue with me if u like I care not
You just described every MMORPG. How exactly do you get back all that time RPing, baking bread and breaking into houses in UO? How do you get back all that time PvPing in DAOC endlessly, even though you NEVER won. How do you get back all that time mining asteroids and chatting in Eve, because once you cancel, that virtual space ship and all that isk is now POOF.
If you think WOW is a waste of time, every videogame you ever played was a waste of time for you. You can't take anything you do in a videogame with you after you quit....unless you're making real money doing it=) If you're having fun playing, its never a waste of time. If you're playing for months and you ask yourself," Why am I playing?", you're a very bored person and need a new hobby.
It's a dead-end game and I reckon you better get out of it before you stand there with the best gear and realises you've just lost about 2 years of your life, 6 months (?) infront of the compy, days & weeks that you will never see again, and to what point? I do feel an urge to start playing again but I keep reminding myself that each day inside there, is like a deja vu. Peace people, hope I diden't flame - argue with me if u like I care not
You just described every MMORPG. How exactly do you get back all that time RPing, baking bread and breaking into houses in UO? How do you get back all that time PvPing in DAOC endlessly, even though you NEVER won. How do you get back all that time mining asteroids and chatting in Eve, because once you cancel, that virtual space ship and all that isk is now POOF.
If you think WOW is a waste of time, every videogame you ever played was a waste of time for you. You can't take anything you do in a videogame with you after you quit....unless you're making real money doing it=) If you're having fun playing, its never a waste of time. If you're playing for months and you ask yourself," Why am I playing?", you're a very bored person and need a new hobby.he didnt just describe every mmorpg. because not every mmo takes 3 years to get the best armor. and then better armor is always coming out for some of these mmos. wow on the other hand makes you waste valuable hours of your life gathering materials for your armor and getting enough gold to forge it. and "you cant take anything you do in a videogame with you after you quit"...thats what a save feature is for(non mmo's). and most mmos leave you off where you started with all of your items with all the same stats and with all the same.....everything. and why would you want to take it with you...plus. video games were made for entertaining. so every video game has not been a waste of time. and thats very straight sighted of you to say that(straight sighted adj, : looking in one direction; narrow-minded thinking; not looking at the broad picture; refusing to look at all angles.)had to make that word up by the way. if a game is just not entertaining, i.e. WoW, then that game has been a waste of time. not every game ever made.
I'll try to come back with a better reply than this one, but feel free to check out some of the posts that have been made lately (march 19-21) and read into the grinding aspects. That will give you some idea about what is bothering people. Also, the game itself is usually not under attack - people mostly dislike the playing options offered by Blizzard while applauding the technical aspects of the game.
You should remember that most of the haters are isolated. It just sounds like there's many. In truth, there are very few. World of Warcraft is the most successful MMO in history and will be remembered as just that.
But, to answer your question with an analogy, WoW is hated much like many successful sports teams that continually repeat their success each year. Case in point, the New York Yankees. Accept for the east coast crowd, it's one of the best teams to hate because they basically buy their success.
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
I "hate" WoW because it is ruining MMOs. They're all the same now. I am being forced to play simpletons games now.
*simpleton means stupid, for you WoW fans out there.
I'll be happy to play a game with only 200k players. WoW says they have 8 mil. So what? If I was a retard, I would play WoW, so don't make 100 different versions of it because why play a fake when I can play the real thing?.
Not all of us have downs syndrome, please make games fun again.
You should remember that most of the haters are isolated. It just sounds like there's many. In truth, there are very few. World of Warcraft is the most successful MMO in history and will be remembered as just that.
But, to answer your question with an analogy, WoW is hated much like many successful sports teams that continually repeat their success each year. Case in point, the New York Yankees. Accept for the east coast crowd, it's one of the best teams to hate because they basically buy their success.
world of warcraft tho it is the most successful mmo, to date, there will be more successful ones. so it will not be remembered as "just that". WoW does have alot of haters wether you believe it or not. WoW does have like 80 million subscribers...but how many actually play any more. many have left the game. some leaving their subscription active. WoW does ruin other mmo's. because when ever a new mmo comes out thats actually innovative or something it is looked at as a "WoW clone" or a "WoW rip-off" and people refuse to buy it.
and just for the heck of it..ill say again. wow has the worst community ever. and alot of drawbacks to the game make it uninteresting. and i know 10 minutes later some guys gonna come in here and say something along the lines of..."almost all mmo's have their draw backs so saying wow has drawbacks doesnt prove the game is bad"...yes all games have draw backs but they are minor. WoWs drawbacks are major. many you notice right away(i.e. the community). other major drawbacks you notice about a week or two into the game. for example the terrible risk reward system. look at another game like guild wars.theres reward, but theres also risk. reward...good item drop or good armor. risk: theres a death penalty every time you die. subtracts for your health and your energy.other risks: not getting the item after several tries; your death penalty getting so high that you cant succesfully fight.
The people who hate WoW are mostly gamers who have played a lot of other MMORPGs, and want a lot more than WoW has to offer. WoW has also attracted millions of players who have never played an MMO before, and they praise WoW like it's the first of its kind. That gets annoying pretty quickly, so we like to heap a little extra scorn on them, just for fun.
I don't hate WoW. I just laugh at it. The plain lack of inovation, and imho f*c* ugly gfx (never liked the original warcraft grf/artwork, allways thought it a cheap Warhammer rip-off) didn't stop me from trying tho. 3 months later I laughed harder at it. I really don't see what that game has to offer the genre tbh...
But WoW isn't a MMORPG..... It's a MMOTP (Massive Multiplayer Online Theme Park). Hell change the orcs and elfs with Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse and you'll have Disneyland on drugs.
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you, If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
I might have already posted this but I don't hate WoW... I hate some of the fanboys though who think any other MMO that comes out is a ripoff of WoW as if WoW was the first ever MMO.
I'm just curious. Not starting a flame thread or any arguments...I have played WoW and in my opinion its not as bad as people think. It's not perfect but what game is? I'm just wondering if anyone opened their mind to WoW and tried to see it as a good game? When i played i had alot of fun, but i never reached 60. So really my opinion isnt as important right now. Since i havent experienced the full content and length of the game. Thinking about rejoining because quite a few friends of mine play. Yeah its pretty simple getting levels, pretty fast, but if it was really slow would that not become a complaint as well? I think its a fun game and people don't give it a chance because of the negative comments others make. Those are my two cents, im looking forward to non-assy replies.
-Johnny Ringo the MMORPGinator
I hate WoW because its like a horrible movie, but still all go and see it.
Example Aliens vs Predator movie....many went and saw it..and liked it, then they see some kick ass movies..and a year after they rent Aliens vs Predator and takes another look at it....and they think "what the hell is this?... how could i like this?"
a few fanboys come on some gaming forums and hate but can't explain why without getting into mud slinging that could be applied accross the board and suddenly everyone hates WoW? Rofl, with over 8.5 million players one has to wonder if everyone hates WoW what are their feelings towards rehashed EQ knock offs (Vanguard), slow and tedious mindless grinding titles (every korean MMO ever made), or SOE governed trash. WoW has put the MMO market on the map; its taken MMOs from a niche category by bringing the industry to the mainstream.
WoW isn't innovative at all in the technological sense,
It bloody well is.
The (working) Auction house.
The show item panel in the trade menu.
The GUI options.
The mod support.
The AI.
The comedy names.
The seamless worlds/on the fly loading.
The linking of items into the chat channel.
The wardrobe function where you can see what an item will look like on you by simply clicking a hyper link.
Bind on pick up.
The warriors rage.
The rogues stealth.
The symbols for marking enemies.
The scaleability of the GFX engine.
Bosses with drops only placed in instances.
The factional language filter.
Innovation after innovation.
And yes they have also successfully copied and amalgamated a lot of great features from it's predesscors also.
It's just another RPG to be sure, but it is also a technical marvel.
Hunter that have tanking pets....
Warlocks that can summon tanks to aid them in fighting...
Spell Casting mechanics.. look awesome compared to some...
Availabilty of many different types of weapons and armor
most of the things you said have already been done before in other games...especially the language filter. thats been done alot of times. more than most people know. the ai...not exactly bright...rogue stealth has been done before..look at this one game called knight online for rogue stealth. and do you know how many other games have scalable graphics engines. games that came out before WoW?! and most other games ...have mod support. GUI...i have no comment on that until i do more research.
so WoW...not a technological marvel...just another mmo...with a few new things..but nothing extremely new thats so facinating the world names a city after it...
p.s.
i dont think WoW even lets you map travel...BIG WASTE OF TIME WALKING TO A CITY 10,000,000,000 MILES AWAY.
imagine picking up a quest and your goal is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay on the other side of the map...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay on the other side. and you have to walk there...because you cant fly yet or something. enjoy your 10 hours. rofl. while im playing guild wars map traveling to my favorite towns. enjoying the beautiful(for an mmo. oblivion looks better:) ) graphics.
I thought you were serious until you mentioned guild wars. Then I lol IRL. Have fun with your 6 skills boring cookie cutter enviroments and pointless gaming.
o wow...the six sklls come back. like i havent heard that a few thousand times. guild wars only allows you to have EIGHT, not six, skills in your skill bar at once. kinda makes things easier than having like 50 and trying to scroll through them allt o find your flaming arrows. theres no challenge in that. and plus the skills are alot better in gw. put your skills together and you can make an unstopable combination...maybe.
then other party members have skills that go hand in hand with your skills. and when im in a guild battle id rather not be the "slow clicker" whos sitting there for like 5 minutes scrolling through like 40 skills trying to find his flaming balls of doom while some undead guy is pwning me... thats just no fun. by the time i find them im dead."ok i found my flaming balls of...oh...im dead..i guess ill wait for someone to resurrect me"... mage:" hold on the monk is trying to find one of his ressurection skills... hes got 500 skills equiped it may be a while."
and the worlds are not cookie cutter. their nicely constructed for one thing. they look waaay better than WoW for another thing. and the fact that you dont have to spawn camp a few undead legions is fine with me. id rather get my own personal map to go kill the undead with.
and i hear ppl whining about the level cap being at 20. ok..wow lvl 20 cap...big whoop. better than trying to level through 70 levels. id rather have my skill in the game be my legend not my level. because you can be a level 70 night elf but still suck at the game. you could have been pwned by every newb in the world. so level doesnt really mean anything. and why have so many levels? its like rating things on a 10 point scale. why? whats the difference between a 7.5 and a 7.6??? is there a difference. whats the difference between a level41 and a level 42? not much.
Your seriousness only makes your support for Guild Wars all the more hilarious. Its awful. The fighting system is boring, klunky, and lacks action as a result of forcing you to stand still while attacking. The game is a slightly improved korean rpg with a lowered lvl cap and limited class and skill selection. The game has no direction, no premise, and no lasting value. You have the gaul to compare this cookie cutter lineage 2 knock off to WoW? Rofl. I've had more fun with Never Winter Nights online than I did with Guild Wars.
I could lvl 1-30 in WoW in the time it would take you to go 1-20 in guildwars. I'd have more skills thant you EIGHT, more things to do and have more fun.
Your seriousness only makes your support for Guild Wars all the more hilarious. Its awful. The fighting system is boring, klunky, and lacks action as a result of forcing you to stand still while attacking. The game is a slightly improved korean rpg with a lowered lvl cap and limited class and skill selection. The game has no direction, no premise, and no lasting value. You have the gaul to compare this cookie cutter lineage 2 knock off to WoW? Rofl.
First off, I'm not really playing much of anything right now, so don't think I'm out to talk about how great my current addiction is. I haven't touched Guild Wars in weeks, and probably won't for a good while still.
Normally I just ignore blatant uninformed idiocy. Normally, I don't even post on these forums. Normally, I understand and accept that fanboyism, like addiction, is a brain disease and all that. Normally, I just leave that crowd to their drool and crayons... But today isn't a normal day, and something smells like bullsh*t, seasoned with idiocy, and topped off with a huge helping of Fanboi Flakes.
I've played Lineage II. I've played Guild Wars. I've played a good deal of WoW, I've watched, and played in, those "wonderfully tactically diverse" grind- er.. Raids.
Lineage II has a twofold purpose:
1: Grind. You spend hours, days, weeks killing monsters in an environment largely like any other korean MMO. You have a class, that class has skills, you use them and stuff dies. You get experience, you heal up, rinse, and repeat. Extends to trying to get equipment drops.
2: PvP. From the sound of it, hardcore Guild vs Guild pvp is the flavor of choice in Lineage. I'll admit I haven't participated in this part of the game, but based on the system, it's pretty standard fare, swap real people for monsters, add in an objective to capture.
Your skills are determined by your class, they're relatively linear, and there isn't much in the way of customization of builds aside from which skills the player wants to use.
As such, it's a fine example of "A slightly improved korean rpg with limited class and skill selection", as you put it.
WoW has a different sort of progression from Lineage... oh, wait.
1: Getting to the level cap. This part is relatively entertaining and well paced. You've got quests to offer some kind of storyline, the occasional short grind, and even some smaller group raids. You level up at a speed that is appropriate for casual play, and you have the rest system charging up a double xp period while in town or logged out.
2: At the level cap. This part is relatively... boring. You get yourself a nice raiding guild, you meet and waste hours of your life several times a week (varies with activity of guild) doing raids. But wait! raids have monsters that are hard! and they take skill!! Bull. The group progresses through the dungeon/area, and stops when told to. characters pull monsters when told to, then the fighting gets "good". (By "good", I refer to that amazingdynamic new battle system that Blizzard clearly invented wherein.. get this: healers heal! Tanks tank! Buffers buff! Debuffers debuff! and DD's DPS! A-Frickin-Mazing. I've seen the light.). Oh, almost missed something. You move around sometimes so that you avoid aggro or get out of the way of an AOE attack. Guess where else I've seen this? oh! I know! FFXI!.... Hell, I think I saw it somewhere else too.... Oh! EverQuest! Where else have I seen combat with such depth and complexity? Right, Lineage II! Yup, this stuff was original.. back in 1997. On top of that, you've got guild mechanics to deal with. You'll be doing the same damn raids over and over and over just to have a chance at that epic gear (read: Carrot in front of the nose), because you either have to get lucky with the draws, or earn the DKP for it. Sounds like a boring, repetitive grind to me.
Now I won't lie, there are other things to do in WoW.. You can PvP, for example. Whoo. I go to contested or enemy territory, I kill the players, half the time when they're just trying to do quests or level up. Don't even throw town raiding onto the table. "Whoo hoo! I killed every NPC in town! Now they'll... just....respawn." Oh, and you can get some honor points for (insert carrot here)... More grinding.
Alternatively, there is the arena. Enter, fight against another team, other individuals, whatever. Win or lose. Get your points, repeat till you have the points to get the newest carrot-on-a-stick armor Blizzard's made for you.
Lastly, you can craft. This is a pretty blatant grind. Get materials, click an item name, click "make". Succeed or fail. Rinse, repeat hundreds of times. This one is approaching pointless from the start, as eventually anything you can make is outpaced by the raid and pvp loot anyway.
And don't let me forget the amazing character customization! For each race you have... a few general looks and hairstyles. I'm celebrating already.
Guild Wars was actually story driven. You never had to grind if you didn't want to. You could pretty much do quests and consistently be at an appropriate level for whatever you would be coming up against next. Typically, you reach the level cap WELL before the end of any campaign, but that's probably why most everything you encounter in the larger part of every campaign is endgame-level. See, Guild Wars actually did something novel in that you have to be able to understand how classes and subclasses, character attributes, and skills work together in order to be at all effective, and you have to be able to utilize the resulting character well in a team to succeed. The point of Guild Wars in PvE is to enjoy the story and progress through the challenges offered by your quests and missions, which are relatively varied compared to the "Kill this, bring me three roots, and talk to him over there, and I'll give you a new helmet" stuff seen so often in WoW. When the game's over, it's over. If you want, you can grind away at some very difficult endgame areas for materials for prestige gear, but that gear isn't any better than the stuff you can earn with relative ease, it just has a unique appearance to acknowledge your accomplishments.
Like WoW, Guild Wars has pvp offerings, though most are arena style. Typical 1v1 with 3 hero NPC's each, 4v4 random teams, 4v4 planned teams(in survival, kill count, and protect the priest flavors), and 8v8 Kill the King style play is available (the last only to guilds), and also 6v6(sometimes v6) arenas wherein the objectives change with each battle. Am I going to tout this as the best thing ever? nope.. Am I going to say it's better than WoW's? Probably. The people here are doing it 'cause they enjoy it (not for that uber loot that they can get if they just spend three more hours a day playing), and are using their ability to design and use an effective character (in the way of gear customization, attributes, and skill choices), and their ability to act in battle (maneuvering, timing skills to the quarter-second, and observing the enemy for the opportunity to disable them or attack). No one setup can just stroll up and get lucky with a few crit nukes to instakill one player after another. No person is guaranteed to win a fight because they wasted months of their life grinding instances for some gear.
I'm not sure where you heard Guild Wars was cookie cutter, but it's got 9 classes, each with around a hundred skills available to them. Add that to the fact that you're choosing 8 at any given time from the skills of both your primary and secondary class, and I call that customization. Add THAT to the fact that you can change your attributes and skills around whenver you're in town, and later on your subclass as well, and I call that innovative. Sure you've got a skillbar orf 8 skills, but unlike WoW, where a healing priest has (optimally) the same gear as the next healer priest and the same points invested into one of three talent trees, (Now who was calling cookie cutter again?) two healers in Guild Wars may not use a single skill alike, Hell, they may not even be the same class, and they can be just as effective. Some healers will even heal strictly by reversing and blocking damage done to a player.... That's not cookie cutter, that's well-thought-out strategy. On top of that, the 6-10 or so attributes you use to customize how well your character uses certain types of skills is simple and straightforward.
Want to use Healing spells to heal? Healing Prayers might be a good attribute to max out.. Granted, you could always just go with Divine Favor and protection prayers attributes to heal and buff at the same time.. Choosing where and when to fire off your 1/4 second 3s recharge shield to counter a particular attack and outdo a standard healer in the process takes a little more skill than dropping a fort buff on your crew every 5 minutes. When the 'healing class' can tank or nuke, the Fighters will use magic to compliment their fighting skills, and the archers can depend solely on necromancy for damage and healing while directing their pet to help them out, all in combat that is far faster paced than WoW or LII, "cookie cutter" just doesn't seem to fit.
And I dunno who's lying to the addicted swarm, but comparing WoW and GW's graphics isn't a matter of "wow has superior artistic style" or "GW's graphics suck". WoW's graphics aren't bad, but they aren't great either. Guild Wars isn't the best, but it's certainly a long sight better than what WoW offers. I'll take the well textured decently modeled world over the chunky, lazily textured WoW world any day.
GRIND: endgame, affects balance Optional, no effect on balance Mandatory.
Customization: Few effective builds Tons of effective class setups A skill tree? maybe?
for each class
Dependent on Nope, not really. No fee, Just a bajillion
Carrot/addiction : Always and equipment is equal. XP to level 67!
In the end , WoW is far closer to being a Lineage II clone than Guld Wars.
Am I saying one is better for me, you, or the other guy? Nope. I'm just pointing out how utterly misinformed some morons are.
Next time just spare the objective folks the trouble and keep your damn mouth shut.
By the way: I never see a warrior stand still and attack in GW... and congratulations on summoning one measly tank. GW necroes can summon eight... and a bigger tank, and three ranged beasts at the same time. or whatever other mix they feel like.
-------------------------- Society: Reaching new lows every day.
People dont hate Wow... its a fashion on MMO sites to say you hate WoW by (normally) ex WoW players that now think 2 years in WoW makes them Hardcore, and complete MMO noobs that see others bash it, so they join in. Most of them also say "I played EQ since release", to sound like they are really old players. Funny enough, when they mention examples, its often in WoW terminology. But yes, they rant and rave about this "kiddie glorified chatroom, mainstream junk, easy to solo AND grinding endgame (Meaning its too easy AND too hard at the same time.. often from the same person)" and so on and so forth, because its "kewl" to bash WoW. Just kids that dont know better, trying to sound like experts. Then they speak in the most glorifying words about "their" game" that apparently is the exact opposite of WoW and its designers that are gods.
What these kiddies always fail to realize and never will realize. is that "their" developers of "their" game.... They play WoW. A lot... All of them. And learn game design from it. Its funny, but in a sad way...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
Originally posted by Harafnir What these kiddies always fail to realize and never will realize. is that "their" developers of "their" game.... They play WoW. A lot... All of them. And learn game design from it. Its funny, but in a sad way...
I think what you're looking for is "copy" not "learn game design from". Originality is a long way off in game design, and with the corporate side of the industry pushing for numbers like WoW has, nobody will risk an untested type of game. Hence why I play whatever I feel like playing at a given time, and stay out of the "WoW Killer" arguments for the most part.
On topic, I think everyone hates WoW because it's got a huge following with plenty of addicts who are generally louder of mouth and larger in number than the smaller following of addicts every other game has. It makes them angry. And overall, it's really not all that superior to those games, more like on level with them, but its success is being used as a standard that effectively oppresses everything new that comes out =/.
-------------------------- Society: Reaching new lows every day.
I'd have to say Guild Wars beats WoW, and Guild wars is a free MMO.
WoW is just another cookie cutter game, coping the WarHammer Series and graphics, that look horrible anyways IMHO. The only thing I can't complain about is that WoW will work on almost any system, that's most likely why they also have so many subscribers.
Comments
If you think WOW is a waste of time, every videogame you ever played was a waste of time for you. You can't take anything you do in a videogame with you after you quit....unless you're making real money doing it=) If you're having fun playing, its never a waste of time. If you're playing for months and you ask yourself," Why am I playing?", you're a very bored person and need a new hobby.
I donno if this has been said yet cause im not gunna take a hour to ready all of these post
im just gunna say my peace and leave and here it is
I cant say i hate the game WoW but i cant support blizzard because of wow and i dont
"Why, you may ask" or "What Did they do"
and the awser to that question is simple THEY HAVE DONT NOTHING SINCE THE LANCH OF WOW
no new releases have been out since there 1st mmorpg has been released
they have halted all dev because of the fat cash that there getting from this mmo
and they are fully hung on this
for all the above they will not get a dime from me untill they release something new and get back to work
now u may say "Hell i would do what u do but i dont wanna stop playin WoW"
ha then dont but with out gettin into any forbidden topics i close that there
theres always another way but thats the jest of it and enjoy
What Ever You Do
If you think WOW is a waste of time, every videogame you ever played was a waste of time for you. You can't take anything you do in a videogame with you after you quit....unless you're making real money doing it=) If you're having fun playing, its never a waste of time. If you're playing for months and you ask yourself," Why am I playing?", you're a very bored person and need a new hobby.he didnt just describe every mmorpg. because not every mmo takes 3 years to get the best armor. and then better armor is always coming out for some of these mmos. wow on the other hand makes you waste valuable hours of your life gathering materials for your armor and getting enough gold to forge it. and "you cant take anything you do in a videogame with you after you quit"...thats what a save feature is for(non mmo's). and most mmos leave you off where you started with all of your items with all the same stats and with all the same.....everything. and why would you want to take it with you...plus. video games were made for entertaining. so every video game has not been a waste of time. and thats very straight sighted of you to say that(straight sighted adj, : looking in one direction; narrow-minded thinking; not looking at the broad picture; refusing to look at all angles.)had to make that word up by the way. if a game is just not entertaining, i.e. WoW, then that game has been a waste of time. not every game ever made.
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function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
}
But, to answer your question with an analogy, WoW is hated much like many successful sports teams that continually repeat their success each year. Case in point, the New York Yankees. Accept for the east coast crowd, it's one of the best teams to hate because they basically buy their success.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
DarkSpace Developer - Play DarkSpace - Play For Free!
Medusa Engine SDK - Free MMO Game Engine
Hampton Roads/East Coast Video Gamers Association
I "hate" WoW because it is ruining MMOs. They're all the same now. I am being forced to play simpletons games now.
*simpleton means stupid, for you WoW fans out there.
I'll be happy to play a game with only 200k players. WoW says they have 8 mil. So what? If I was a retard, I would play WoW, so don't make 100 different versions of it because why play a fake when I can play the real thing?.
Not all of us have downs syndrome, please make games fun again.
world of warcraft tho it is the most successful mmo, to date, there will be more successful ones. so it will not be remembered as "just that". WoW does have alot of haters wether you believe it or not. WoW does have like 80 million subscribers...but how many actually play any more. many have left the game. some leaving their subscription active. WoW does ruin other mmo's. because when ever a new mmo comes out thats actually innovative or something it is looked at as a "WoW clone" or a "WoW rip-off" and people refuse to buy it.
and just for the heck of it..ill say again. wow has the worst community ever. and alot of drawbacks to the game make it uninteresting. and i know 10 minutes later some guys gonna come in here and say something along the lines of..."almost all mmo's have their draw backs so saying wow has drawbacks doesnt prove the game is bad"...yes all games have draw backs but they are minor. WoWs drawbacks are major. many you notice right away(i.e. the community). other major drawbacks you notice about a week or two into the game. for example the terrible risk reward system. look at another game like guild wars.theres reward, but theres also risk. reward...good item drop or good armor. risk: theres a death penalty every time you die. subtracts for your health and your energy.other risks: not getting the item after several tries; your death penalty getting so high that you cant succesfully fight.
in wow is there a punishment for death?
except people in the community saying you suck
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function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
}
But WoW isn't a MMORPG..... It's a MMOTP (Massive Multiplayer Online Theme Park). Hell change the orcs and elfs with Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse and you'll have Disneyland on drugs.
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant:
"If I live, I will kill you, If I die, you are forgiven."
Such is the Rule of Honor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
It bloody well is.
The (working) Auction house.
The show item panel in the trade menu.
The GUI options.
The mod support.
The AI.
The comedy names.
The seamless worlds/on the fly loading.
The linking of items into the chat channel.
The wardrobe function where you can see what an item will look like on you by simply clicking a hyper link.
Bind on pick up.
The warriors rage.
The rogues stealth.
The symbols for marking enemies.
The scaleability of the GFX engine.
Bosses with drops only placed in instances.
The factional language filter.
Innovation after innovation.
And yes they have also successfully copied and amalgamated a lot of great features from it's predesscors also.
It's just another RPG to be sure, but it is also a technical marvel.
Hunter that have tanking pets....Warlocks that can summon tanks to aid them in fighting...
Spell Casting mechanics.. look awesome compared to some...
Availabilty of many different types of weapons and armor
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
I hate WoW because its like a horrible movie, but still all go and see it.
Example Aliens vs Predator movie....many went and saw it..and liked it, then they see some kick ass movies..and a year after they rent Aliens vs Predator and takes another look at it....and they think "what the hell is this?... how could i like this?"
Thats how i feel with WoW
It bloody well is.
The (working) Auction house.
The show item panel in the trade menu.
The GUI options.
The mod support.
The AI.
The comedy names.
The seamless worlds/on the fly loading.
The linking of items into the chat channel.
The wardrobe function where you can see what an item will look like on you by simply clicking a hyper link.
Bind on pick up.
The warriors rage.
The rogues stealth.
The symbols for marking enemies.
The scaleability of the GFX engine.
Bosses with drops only placed in instances.
The factional language filter.
Innovation after innovation.
And yes they have also successfully copied and amalgamated a lot of great features from it's predesscors also.
It's just another RPG to be sure, but it is also a technical marvel.
Hunter that have tanking pets....Warlocks that can summon tanks to aid them in fighting...
Spell Casting mechanics.. look awesome compared to some...
Availabilty of many different types of weapons and armor
most of the things you said have already been done before in other games...especially the language filter. thats been done alot of times. more than most people know. the ai...not exactly bright...rogue stealth has been done before..look at this one game called knight online for rogue stealth. and do you know how many other games have scalable graphics engines. games that came out before WoW?! and most other games ...have mod support. GUI...i have no comment on that until i do more research.
so WoW...not a technological marvel...just another mmo...with a few new things..but nothing extremely new thats so facinating the world names a city after it...
p.s.
i dont think WoW even lets you map travel...BIG WASTE OF TIME WALKING TO A CITY 10,000,000,000 MILES AWAY.
imagine picking up a quest and your goal is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay on the other side of the map...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay on the other side. and you have to walk there...because you cant fly yet or something. enjoy your 10 hours. rofl. while im playing guild wars map traveling to my favorite towns. enjoying the beautiful(for an mmo. oblivion looks better:) ) graphics.
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function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
}
o wow...the six sklls come back. like i havent heard that a few thousand times. guild wars only allows you to have EIGHT, not six, skills in your skill bar at once. kinda makes things easier than having like 50 and trying to scroll through them allt o find your flaming arrows. theres no challenge in that. and plus the skills are alot better in gw. put your skills together and you can make an unstopable combination...maybe.
then other party members have skills that go hand in hand with your skills. and when im in a guild battle id rather not be the "slow clicker" whos sitting there for like 5 minutes scrolling through like 40 skills trying to find his flaming balls of doom while some undead guy is pwning me... thats just no fun. by the time i find them im dead."ok i found my flaming balls of...oh...im dead..i guess ill wait for someone to resurrect me"... mage:" hold on the monk is trying to find one of his ressurection skills... hes got 500 skills equiped it may be a while."
and the worlds are not cookie cutter. their nicely constructed for one thing. they look waaay better than WoW for another thing. and the fact that you dont have to spawn camp a few undead legions is fine with me. id rather get my own personal map to go kill the undead with.
and i hear ppl whining about the level cap being at 20. ok..wow lvl 20 cap...big whoop. better than trying to level through 70 levels. id rather have my skill in the game be my legend not my level. because you can be a level 70 night elf but still suck at the game. you could have been pwned by every newb in the world. so level doesnt really mean anything. and why have so many levels? its like rating things on a 10 point scale. why? whats the difference between a 7.5 and a 7.6??? is there a difference. whats the difference between a level41 and a level 42? not much.
////////////
function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
}
I could lvl 1-30 in WoW in the time it would take you to go 1-20 in guildwars. I'd have more skills thant you EIGHT, more things to do and have more fun.
Your over glorified PSO beats WoW 10:1!!11
First off, I'm not really playing much of anything right now, so don't think I'm out to talk about how great my current addiction is. I haven't touched Guild Wars in weeks, and probably won't for a good while still.
Normally I just ignore blatant uninformed idiocy. Normally, I don't even post on these forums. Normally, I understand and accept that fanboyism, like addiction, is a brain disease and all that. Normally, I just leave that crowd to their drool and crayons... But today isn't a normal day, and something smells like bullsh*t, seasoned with idiocy, and topped off with a huge helping of Fanboi Flakes.
I've played Lineage II. I've played Guild Wars. I've played a good deal of WoW, I've watched, and played in, those "wonderfully tactically diverse" grind- er.. Raids.
Lineage II has a twofold purpose:
1: Grind. You spend hours, days, weeks killing monsters in an environment largely like any other korean MMO. You have a class, that class has skills, you use them and stuff dies. You get experience, you heal up, rinse, and repeat. Extends to trying to get equipment drops.
2: PvP. From the sound of it, hardcore Guild vs Guild pvp is the flavor of choice in Lineage. I'll admit I haven't participated in this part of the game, but based on the system, it's pretty standard fare, swap real people for monsters, add in an objective to capture.
Your skills are determined by your class, they're relatively linear, and there isn't much in the way of customization of builds aside from which skills the player wants to use.
As such, it's a fine example of "A slightly improved korean rpg with limited class and skill selection", as you put it.
WoW has a different sort of progression from Lineage... oh, wait.
1: Getting to the level cap. This part is relatively entertaining and well paced. You've got quests to offer some kind of storyline, the occasional short grind, and even some smaller group raids. You level up at a speed that is appropriate for casual play, and you have the rest system charging up a double xp period while in town or logged out.
2: At the level cap. This part is relatively... boring. You get yourself a nice raiding guild, you meet and waste hours of your life several times a week (varies with activity of guild) doing raids. But wait! raids have monsters that are hard! and they take skill!! Bull. The group progresses through the dungeon/area, and stops when told to. characters pull monsters when told to, then the fighting gets "good". (By "good", I refer to that amazing dynamic new battle system that Blizzard clearly invented wherein.. get this: healers heal! Tanks tank! Buffers buff! Debuffers debuff! and DD's DPS! A-Frickin-Mazing. I've seen the light.). Oh, almost missed something. You move around sometimes so that you avoid aggro or get out of the way of an AOE attack. Guess where else I've seen this? oh! I know! FFXI!.... Hell, I think I saw it somewhere else too.... Oh! EverQuest! Where else have I seen combat with such depth and complexity? Right, Lineage II! Yup, this stuff was original.. back in 1997. On top of that, you've got guild mechanics to deal with. You'll be doing the same damn raids over and over and over just to have a chance at that epic gear (read: Carrot in front of the nose), because you either have to get lucky with the draws, or earn the DKP for it. Sounds like a boring, repetitive grind to me.
Now I won't lie, there are other things to do in WoW.. You can PvP, for example. Whoo. I go to contested or enemy territory, I kill the players, half the time when they're just trying to do quests or level up. Don't even throw town raiding onto the table. "Whoo hoo! I killed every NPC in town! Now they'll... just....respawn." Oh, and you can get some honor points for (insert carrot here)... More grinding.
Alternatively, there is the arena. Enter, fight against another team, other individuals, whatever. Win or lose. Get your points, repeat till you have the points to get the newest carrot-on-a-stick armor Blizzard's made for you.
Lastly, you can craft. This is a pretty blatant grind. Get materials, click an item name, click "make". Succeed or fail. Rinse, repeat hundreds of times. This one is approaching pointless from the start, as eventually anything you can make is outpaced by the raid and pvp loot anyway.
And don't let me forget the amazing character customization! For each race you have... a few general looks and hairstyles. I'm celebrating already.
Guild Wars was actually story driven. You never had to grind if you didn't want to. You could pretty much do quests and consistently be at an appropriate level for whatever you would be coming up against next. Typically, you reach the level cap WELL before the end of any campaign, but that's probably why most everything you encounter in the larger part of every campaign is endgame-level. See, Guild Wars actually did something novel in that you have to be able to understand how classes and subclasses, character attributes, and skills work together in order to be at all effective, and you have to be able to utilize the resulting character well in a team to succeed. The point of Guild Wars in PvE is to enjoy the story and progress through the challenges offered by your quests and missions, which are relatively varied compared to the "Kill this, bring me three roots, and talk to him over there, and I'll give you a new helmet" stuff seen so often in WoW. When the game's over, it's over. If you want, you can grind away at some very difficult endgame areas for materials for prestige gear, but that gear isn't any better than the stuff you can earn with relative ease, it just has a unique appearance to acknowledge your accomplishments.
Like WoW, Guild Wars has pvp offerings, though most are arena style. Typical 1v1 with 3 hero NPC's each, 4v4 random teams, 4v4 planned teams(in survival, kill count, and protect the priest flavors), and 8v8 Kill the King style play is available (the last only to guilds), and also 6v6(sometimes v6) arenas wherein the objectives change with each battle. Am I going to tout this as the best thing ever? nope.. Am I going to say it's better than WoW's? Probably. The people here are doing it 'cause they enjoy it (not for that uber loot that they can get if they just spend three more hours a day playing), and are using their ability to design and use an effective character (in the way of gear customization, attributes, and skill choices), and their ability to act in battle (maneuvering, timing skills to the quarter-second, and observing the enemy for the opportunity to disable them or attack). No one setup can just stroll up and get lucky with a few crit nukes to instakill one player after another. No person is guaranteed to win a fight because they wasted months of their life grinding instances for some gear.
I'm not sure where you heard Guild Wars was cookie cutter, but it's got 9 classes, each with around a hundred skills available to them. Add that to the fact that you're choosing 8 at any given time from the skills of both your primary and secondary class, and I call that customization. Add THAT to the fact that you can change your attributes and skills around whenver you're in town, and later on your subclass as well, and I call that innovative. Sure you've got a skillbar orf 8 skills, but unlike WoW, where a healing priest has (optimally) the same gear as the next healer priest and the same points invested into one of three talent trees, (Now who was calling cookie cutter again?) two healers in Guild Wars may not use a single skill alike, Hell, they may not even be the same class, and they can be just as effective. Some healers will even heal strictly by reversing and blocking damage done to a player.... That's not cookie cutter, that's well-thought-out strategy. On top of that, the 6-10 or so attributes you use to customize how well your character uses certain types of skills is simple and straightforward.
Want to use Healing spells to heal? Healing Prayers might be a good attribute to max out.. Granted, you could always just go with Divine Favor and protection prayers attributes to heal and buff at the same time.. Choosing where and when to fire off your 1/4 second 3s recharge shield to counter a particular attack and outdo a standard healer in the process takes a little more skill than dropping a fort buff on your crew every 5 minutes. When the 'healing class' can tank or nuke, the Fighters will use magic to compliment their fighting skills, and the archers can depend solely on necromancy for damage and healing while directing their pet to help them out, all in combat that is far faster paced than WoW or LII, "cookie cutter" just doesn't seem to fit.
And I dunno who's lying to the addicted swarm, but comparing WoW and GW's graphics isn't a matter of "wow has superior artistic style" or "GW's graphics suck". WoW's graphics aren't bad, but they aren't great either. Guild Wars isn't the best, but it's certainly a long sight better than what WoW offers. I'll take the well textured decently modeled world over the chunky, lazily textured WoW world any day.
so, in summary.
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WoW GW L2
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GRIND: endgame, affects balance Optional, no effect on balance Mandatory.
Customization: Few effective builds Tons of effective class setups A skill tree? maybe?
for each class
Dependent on Nope, not really. No fee, Just a bajillion
Carrot/addiction : Always and equipment is equal. XP to level 67!
In the end , WoW is far closer to being a Lineage II clone than Guld Wars.
Am I saying one is better for me, you, or the other guy? Nope. I'm just pointing out how utterly misinformed some morons are.
Next time just spare the objective folks the trouble and keep your damn mouth shut.
By the way: I never see a warrior stand still and attack in GW... and congratulations on summoning one measly tank. GW necroes can summon eight... and a bigger tank, and three ranged beasts at the same time. or whatever other mix they feel like.
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Society: Reaching new lows every day.
People dont hate Wow... its a fashion on MMO sites to say you hate WoW by (normally) ex WoW players that now think 2 years in WoW makes them Hardcore, and complete MMO noobs that see others bash it, so they join in. Most of them also say "I played EQ since release", to sound like they are really old players. Funny enough, when they mention examples, its often in WoW terminology. But yes, they rant and rave about this "kiddie glorified chatroom, mainstream junk, easy to solo AND grinding endgame (Meaning its too easy AND too hard at the same time.. often from the same person)" and so on and so forth, because its "kewl" to bash WoW. Just kids that dont know better, trying to sound like experts. Then they speak in the most glorifying words about "their" game" that apparently is the exact opposite of WoW and its designers that are gods.
What these kiddies always fail to realize and never will realize. is that "their" developers of "their" game.... They play WoW. A lot... All of them. And learn game design from it. Its funny, but in a sad way...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I think what you're looking for is "copy" not "learn game design from". Originality is a long way off in game design, and with the corporate side of the industry pushing for numbers like WoW has, nobody will risk an untested type of game. Hence why I play whatever I feel like playing at a given time, and stay out of the "WoW Killer" arguments for the most part.
On topic, I think everyone hates WoW because it's got a huge following with plenty of addicts who are generally louder of mouth and larger in number than the smaller following of addicts every other game has. It makes them angry. And overall, it's really not all that superior to those games, more like on level with them, but its success is being used as a standard that effectively oppresses everything new that comes out =/.
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Society: Reaching new lows every day.
WoW is just another cookie cutter game, coping the WarHammer Series and graphics, that look horrible anyways IMHO. The only thing I can't complain about is that WoW will work on almost any system, that's most likely why they also have so many subscribers.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!