^^ Do you play albs? Both my reaver and my mins can solo red mobs. My mins can take red mobs as pets. He is made strickly for pve on a toa server and have solod grape mobs with a sally as my pet.
Yeah, I played both a Reaver and a Mins. I never got high enough on a Mins to solo reds, but I soloed reds from the very beginning with my Reaver. Reavers are overpowered in PvE, but they balance out in PvP. Minstrels also balance out in PvP. I bet you need some awsome gear to solo reds though, which you can get on ToA servers. ToA gear actually makes you stronger than a person of equal level, so it doesn't suprise me that you can kill a red. I'm a by the book type of person. I do understand a lot of classes can solo reds without a problem, but the book says that reds are only killable by groups. I'm not sure if you got a book with your copy or if you even read it. When the book says red and purples are only killable by groups, you know a class is overpowered in PvE when they can kill them solo.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
It has been a long time since you played JK or you just suck. Killing ojs, reds, and purples are pretty easy for the majority of classes in the game. As for being a "group" game, the impact of WoW drove DAOC to make this a solo game for the most part. Pretty much every class and almost every spec can solo from 1-50 in a short amount of time killing yellows or oranges. If you look at the changes made in 1.85-1.87 you will see them giving characters more power, more solo potential, and far less down time.
Characters that can kill reds solo:
Animists, Bainshes, Champs, Heors, Elds, Enchanters, Maulers, NS, Rangers, Warden, VW, Vamps, necros, theurgists, wizards, socerers, infs, ok well this is going to take to long, here are the classes that CAN'T:
Bards, Minstrals, Reavers?, Healers?, Clerics?, Druids (demends on the mob)
This are not new for many classes either. When SI came out I soloed my Void Eld and killed reds. Not all reds, but given my RA and not missing bolts every red would drop in 2-4 bolts. PbAOE classes would commonly be able to take out reds. It is very easy with a chanter. You send in your pet and keep it healed. Then once it has argo you walk up and PbAoE 2-3 times and they would all die. My friend used to play a druid. Between him and his pet he could take a red (it just took a very long time and sometimes he would need to root and run).
The fact is in DAOC leveling is fastest solo/duo now. Unless you are going to be on for a long time, have a good well rounded group of 8 hitting very high purples, then leveling with a group is slower. In fact the only reason I can think of to have a full group now is doing a TD because of the 125% bonus XP.
To answer your first question, neither apply. I did play since 2002, so the old group dynamic and balancing ways are burnt into my brain. I do know that many classes can solo a red, but note that I said solo them effectively, meaning they are worth grinding out over an our over oj's. I have realized the impact that WoW has made on the game and I've faught it tooth and nail instead of rolling over and taking it like you have obviously.
Groups are still more effective than solo/duo's. Maybe not if you are one of the recently introduced overpowered classes, but for most classes a group is still the fastest. By the way Classic and SI zones have 1.5x xp + camp bonus and group bonus and RvR has 2x xp +camp bonus and group bonus. So while TD's are still a viable way to level, you can now level anywhere else and it be just as viable too. If you play for only an hour at a time or something then maybe soloing and duoing is better, but who really plays for only an hour? What can you possibly get accomplished in an hour besides a little bit of xp or a few quests? RvR and raids take hours to accomplish something, so naturally this game attracts the players that can devote 2-3 hours at a time to the game. So the way I see it, the game is still a grouping game, but now has the abillity to solo it viably depending on the class you roll. I think the real situation is that WoW players have came to DAoC expecting to be able to play like they did in WoW, which was solo for the majority of the game. Truthfully, I find myself playing with the other old dogs like myself, which means we are typically grouped, having a good time chatting, and tearing up the other realms with or without "The Best Class/Race/Spec."
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Logged into my minstrel and the only thing he had on that is from toa is Dream Sphere. And it doesn't help him at pve at all, just turns my whole group into black panthers. Everything else is from cats, laby or pc'd. High instruments spec/+'s from gear lets you take a higher lvl pet, high CHA lets you hold onto it without resists. Don't use him in NF much, but the times I've sent a red hoary worm onto a caster, they didn't last long at all. Mentioned those two because in your previous post you listed reavers and mins as NOT being able to solo reds.
I understand what you meant by the book saying reds are group only, but since this game came out, almost every class has been buffed up and I really am having a hard time coming up with a class that has trouble taking on reds. Most of my toons are albs and hibs with just a few mids so I don't know how well lvl 50 mids fair on certain mobs. I started playing this game when SI came out and even back then, when I read that I should be fighting blues it made me laugh. I think those are really just a guideline so that some wizard doesn't die to an oj mob and quit the game thinking it is too hard. I don't think I've ever had a caster that couldn't solo oj's easily from any level. Sure, they can hope to melee them down, but learning to kite fixed any probs I have had with mobs. This morning I went to hib/gareth and made a Druid. Specced 75% heals and 25% buffs and he was soloing oj and reds in the bg's and he's a healer. Now, with the new regen rates, almost any class can solo reds oj if they get even halfway decent gear. Healers and clerics are the only ones I can think of atm.
Logged into my minstrel and the only thing he had on that is from toa is Dream Sphere. And it doesn't help him at pve at all, just turns my whole group into black panthers. Everything else is from cats, laby or pc'd. High instruments spec/+'s from gear lets you take a higher lvl pet, high CHA lets you hold onto it without resists. Don't use him in NF much, but the times I've sent a red hoary worm onto a caster, they didn't last long at all. Mentioned those two because in your previous post you listed reavers and mins as NOT being able to solo reds.
I understand what you meant by the book saying reds are group only, but since this game came out, almost every class has been buffed up and I really am having a hard time coming up with a class that has trouble taking on reds. Most of my toons are albs and hibs with just a few mids so I don't know how well lvl 50 mids fair on certain mobs. I started playing this game when SI came out and even back then, when I read that I should be fighting blues it made me laugh. I think those are really just a guideline so that some wizard doesn't die to an oj mob and quit the game thinking it is too hard. I don't think I've ever had a caster that couldn't solo oj's easily from any level. Sure, they can hope to melee them down, but learning to kite fixed any probs I have had with mobs. This morning I went to hib/gareth and made a Druid. Specced 75% heals and 25% buffs and he was soloing oj and reds in the bg's and he's a healer. Now, with the new regen rates, almost any class can solo reds oj if they get even halfway decent gear. Healers and clerics are the only ones I can think of atm.
Just so you know, I wasn't the one who said Reavers and Minstrels couldn't solo reds, that was the other guy. The reason I adhere to the by the book definitions still is because people still complain if their class can't solo reds or they accuse a spec line of being gimp if they can't solo reds. Neither would be true if people went in with the understanding that reds are meant to be killed with a group, not solo. The lower a persons expectations are, the less hurt they will be when they can't solo something. The less people are hurt by their class not being able to solo a red, the less people like me have to hear "why are you this spec, when this spec is better or that class can do it better?" Elitists and min/maxers have ruined this game a lot for me and no other game comes close to having a community that descriminates against people who don't play the cookie cutter specs. If I wasn't able to find people like me in-game rather easily, I wouldn't be playing it anymore. Lucky for Mythic, I have found people like me.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Sorry about that, put the ^^ to show I was directing that at the poster above and you quoted me and repsonded in the next post so I assumed that was you in the previous one.
Everyone that say hibs are OPed, that animists are Oped and I will tell you that is not true the reason why hibs look Oped because they work well together as a realm at least on the Killibury Cluster when we have a good leader to lead the realm to get our relics back. I will also tell you when the hibs and mids ever get a Oped toon mythic will always nerf it because they want to keep hibs and mids as the underdogs when fighting the albs. Everyone can look at every toon that came out for hibs and mids since 2005 and all have been zerfed. Banishee, Warlocks, Vamps, All the Stealther Class, Zerkers and now the Animists the only best PVE toon the hibs had. How many albs have been nerfed 0 Mythic only made them better and more harder to kill. The reason why the albs don't have any relics is because they don't work as a realm just a 8 man. From my view of the game as a nightshade it is now harder for me to kill a RR 2 Reaver than a RR 9 Inf where I can Perf a RR 8 Zerker for 800+ damage and turn around an Perf a RR 7 Fire Wizard for 400 damage in my eyes something is not right about that. Mythic is making the game better but only if your an Alb. If your a hib or mid and your toon is on a roll and everyone that plays that toon is on a roll expect to get zerf.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch Now Playing : Black Desert Online "America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
I decided to test your theory of EVERY class being able to solo reds with my lvl 12 Shaman and my lvl 17 Eldritch. My shaman was able to solo reds, but my Eldritch couldn't even kill an oj because my spells kept getting resisted. My Eldritch's gear was fine, my stats were capped out, and my focus staff was good. I was even using my spec line spells. They got resisted every time and I died a very horrible death. So it seems that your statement is only have true. You can solo reds if you have melee capability and some armor, and it is iffy on soloing even Oj's with casters because of resist problems.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Everyone that say hibs are OPed, that animists are Oped and I will tell you that is not true the reason why hibs look Oped because they work well together as a realm at least on the Killibury Cluster when we have a good leader to lead the realm to get our relics back. I will also tell you when the hibs and mids ever get a Oped toon mythic will always nerf it because they want to keep hibs and mids as the underdogs when fighting the albs. Everyone can look at every toon that came out for hibs and mids since 2005 and all have been zerfed. Banishee, Warlocks, Vamps, All the Stealther Class, Zerkers and now the Animists the only best PVE toon the hibs had. How many albs have been nerfed 0 Mythic only made them better and more harder to kill. The reason why the albs don't have any relics is because they don't work as a realm just a 8 man. From my view of the game as a nightshade it is now harder for me to kill a RR 2 Reaver than a RR 9 Inf where I can Perf a RR 8 Zerker for 800+ damage and turn around an Perf a RR 7 Fire Wizard for 400 damage in my eyes something is not right about that. Mythic is making the game better but only if your an Alb. If your a hib or mid and your toon is on a roll and everyone that plays that toon is on a roll expect to get zerf.
I will hunt you till I can't hunt you no more or till I get nerfed.
RR 8L1 50 Nightshade
RR 6L3 50 Druid
RR 4L8 50 Ranger
RR 3L8 50 Heretic
Gah... a pure caster (damage dealer) should NOT get baseline stun. Thats just so wrong. rr1 chanter could solo almost all classes if ppl dont have purge 3 or det 5.
So hib casters got a nice adventage... if my 11L3 rm would get baseline stun whoo hoo hoo!!!! nobody could stop me:D
How you spec is important. If you spec Light for Eld it is harder to solo than if you spec void. Also, baseline stun is your friend. Add on to that going out to the BG and getting MoM and WP helps. My Eld has been killing ojs since release and reds since SI.
So I think most on here agree that most if not all classes can solo ojs/reds. As for leveling the fastest, it really comes down to how fast you can do it. In order for groups to be the best XP you need to kill high level purple mobs at a rate that is as fast if not faster than you can solo an oj or do a Cats quest. This is highly unlikely. If you will notice that most grouping is duo/bot because this is the fastest way to do it. I will only group for fun or to help others. As for XP it is just too damn slow in groups given how easy ojs/reds are and the XP cap. The only way to help this out is either a significant group bonus, or to increase the XP cap per level you can get so that when you add more to your party it does not cut into your XP.
How you spec is important. If you spec Light for Eld it is harder to solo than if you spec void. Also, baseline stun is your friend. Add on to that going out to the BG and getting MoM and WP helps. My Eld has been killing ojs since release and reds since SI.
So I think most on here agree that most if not all classes can solo ojs/reds. As for leveling the fastest, it really comes down to how fast you can do it. In order for groups to be the best XP you need to kill high level purple mobs at a rate that is as fast if not faster than you can solo an oj or do a Cats quest. This is highly unlikely. If you will notice that most grouping is duo/bot because this is the fastest way to do it. I will only group for fun or to help others. As for XP it is just too damn slow in groups given how easy ojs/reds are and the XP cap. The only way to help this out is either a significant group bonus, or to increase the XP cap per level you can get so that when you add more to your party it does not cut into your XP.
So you are one of those people that doesn't believe in diversity? You don't believe in being able to customize your character to your liking? Well I am one of those people that believes in it and sees the value in every spec. We are going to have to agree to disagree for the best xp thing. My experience tells me that grouping is the best xp and yours tells you that playing a maximum race/class/spec is the best way. Well I am glad that you want to play with a lot of clones. You should really try out an asian game, it sounds right up your league. They don't care about diversity, plus they usually create classes without the ability to specialize anything. It will avoid the hassle of figuring out what the best spec is for the class you are playing.
Seriously though. People are allowed to play a class the way they want. People need to open their eyes to the value of each spec. Certainly I, and others like me aren't the only ones with brains that can figure out the strength behind each class/spec.
There are 15 classes per realm. There is no reason to be pigeon holed into a particular class to be accepted. There is also no need to be pigeon holed into a certain spec in that class to be accepted. Mythic made 3 specs and many RA's for the ability to individualize ourselves. I'm sure there are some specs and RA's that do better for soloers, but you should understand that not all of us care about getting to max lvl asap and some of us like to group.
I'm tired of people being such elitists and narrow minded. I guarantee all of you would go home crying if mythic revamped the game like SOE did to SWG and made every class like WoW, where you get an ability at a certain lvl and every class is the same as the next. If you know you wouldn't like for Mythic to do that, then why do you force your race/class/specs on people as a standard that they have to meet? Since I am sure none of you want that to happen, why not be fair and open up your standards to all race/class/spec/RA combonations when saying that everyone can solo oj's and reds.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
JK it is not that people are trying to force there specs onto people its just people are trying to give people an idea of how to spec a toon I had a tons of people ask me how I speced my nightshade. Sometimes I just told people just for an idea I dont force anything on no one. But if mythic did revamp this game like WOW I will sell my 3 accounts cause WOW is a kids game. WOW is for those people that don`t understand MMORPGs and just bounce from every new MMORPG that comes out. DAOC is the first MMORPG I have ever played and I been playing it for 4 years now and I`m still playing strong. WOW was my second MMORPG I just wanted to see what was the big deal was in WOW since alot of people played it on my ship and I found out that WOW is the most simpleton game I have ever played. Blizzard just made something and just put it on the market I wonder if they even tested the game themselves before they released it. For the people that haven`t seen it look at www.vidilife.com and look for South Park Make Love Not Warcraft video for a funny time.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch Now Playing : Black Desert Online "America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
Wow, so you would prefer diversity over death? You and your friends can pat each other on the back for daring to spec 25% SM, 25% VE, 25% Dem 25% pierce on a vamp while you take a dirt nap and cry about how hard the game is. My void eldy was solo in every bg until he hit 20. Every time I would enter a new bg I had to kill reds to level. Just because YOU cannot do something on your toons somehow translates into anyone that claims the contrary is a liar? Lol. How many PW necros you think are out there?
Comments
Yeah, I played both a Reaver and a Mins. I never got high enough on a Mins to solo reds, but I soloed reds from the very beginning with my Reaver. Reavers are overpowered in PvE, but they balance out in PvP. Minstrels also balance out in PvP. I bet you need some awsome gear to solo reds though, which you can get on ToA servers. ToA gear actually makes you stronger than a person of equal level, so it doesn't suprise me that you can kill a red. I'm a by the book type of person. I do understand a lot of classes can solo reds without a problem, but the book says that reds are only killable by groups. I'm not sure if you got a book with your copy or if you even read it. When the book says red and purples are only killable by groups, you know a class is overpowered in PvE when they can kill them solo.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
To answer your first question, neither apply. I did play since 2002, so the old group dynamic and balancing ways are burnt into my brain. I do know that many classes can solo a red, but note that I said solo them effectively, meaning they are worth grinding out over an our over oj's. I have realized the impact that WoW has made on the game and I've faught it tooth and nail instead of rolling over and taking it like you have obviously.
Groups are still more effective than solo/duo's. Maybe not if you are one of the recently introduced overpowered classes, but for most classes a group is still the fastest. By the way Classic and SI zones have 1.5x xp + camp bonus and group bonus and RvR has 2x xp +camp bonus and group bonus. So while TD's are still a viable way to level, you can now level anywhere else and it be just as viable too. If you play for only an hour at a time or something then maybe soloing and duoing is better, but who really plays for only an hour? What can you possibly get accomplished in an hour besides a little bit of xp or a few quests? RvR and raids take hours to accomplish something, so naturally this game attracts the players that can devote 2-3 hours at a time to the game. So the way I see it, the game is still a grouping game, but now has the abillity to solo it viably depending on the class you roll. I think the real situation is that WoW players have came to DAoC expecting to be able to play like they did in WoW, which was solo for the majority of the game. Truthfully, I find myself playing with the other old dogs like myself, which means we are typically grouped, having a good time chatting, and tearing up the other realms with or without "The Best Class/Race/Spec."
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I understand what you meant by the book saying reds are group only, but since this game came out, almost every class has been buffed up and I really am having a hard time coming up with a class that has trouble taking on reds. Most of my toons are albs and hibs with just a few mids so I don't know how well lvl 50 mids fair on certain mobs. I started playing this game when SI came out and even back then, when I read that I should be fighting blues it made me laugh. I think those are really just a guideline so that some wizard doesn't die to an oj mob and quit the game thinking it is too hard. I don't think I've ever had a caster that couldn't solo oj's easily from any level. Sure, they can hope to melee them down, but learning to kite fixed any probs I have had with mobs. This morning I went to hib/gareth and made a Druid. Specced 75% heals and 25% buffs and he was soloing oj and reds in the bg's and he's a healer. Now, with the new regen rates, almost any class can solo reds oj if they get even halfway decent gear. Healers and clerics are the only ones I can think of atm.
Just so you know, I wasn't the one who said Reavers and Minstrels couldn't solo reds, that was the other guy. The reason I adhere to the by the book definitions still is because people still complain if their class can't solo reds or they accuse a spec line of being gimp if they can't solo reds. Neither would be true if people went in with the understanding that reds are meant to be killed with a group, not solo. The lower a persons expectations are, the less hurt they will be when they can't solo something. The less people are hurt by their class not being able to solo a red, the less people like me have to hear "why are you this spec, when this spec is better or that class can do it better?" Elitists and min/maxers have ruined this game a lot for me and no other game comes close to having a community that descriminates against people who don't play the cookie cutter specs. If I wasn't able to find people like me in-game rather easily, I wouldn't be playing it anymore. Lucky for Mythic, I have found people like me.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch
Now Playing : Black Desert Online
"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I will hunt you till I can't hunt you no more or till I get nerfed.
RR 8L1 50 Nightshade
RR 6L3 50 Druid
RR 4L8 50 Ranger
RR 3L8 50 Heretic
Gah... a pure caster (damage dealer) should NOT get baseline stun. Thats just so wrong. rr1 chanter could solo almost all classes if ppl dont have purge 3 or det 5.
So hib casters got a nice adventage... if my 11L3 rm would get baseline stun whoo hoo hoo!!!! nobody could stop me:D
DAoC - Midgard/Guinevere
Alvery - R11L3 Runemaster
So I think most on here agree that most if not all classes can solo ojs/reds. As for leveling the fastest, it really comes down to how fast you can do it. In order for groups to be the best XP you need to kill high level purple mobs at a rate that is as fast if not faster than you can solo an oj or do a Cats quest. This is highly unlikely. If you will notice that most grouping is duo/bot because this is the fastest way to do it. I will only group for fun or to help others. As for XP it is just too damn slow in groups given how easy ojs/reds are and the XP cap. The only way to help this out is either a significant group bonus, or to increase the XP cap per level you can get so that when you add more to your party it does not cut into your XP.
So you are one of those people that doesn't believe in diversity? You don't believe in being able to customize your character to your liking? Well I am one of those people that believes in it and sees the value in every spec. We are going to have to agree to disagree for the best xp thing. My experience tells me that grouping is the best xp and yours tells you that playing a maximum race/class/spec is the best way. Well I am glad that you want to play with a lot of clones. You should really try out an asian game, it sounds right up your league. They don't care about diversity, plus they usually create classes without the ability to specialize anything. It will avoid the hassle of figuring out what the best spec is for the class you are playing.
Seriously though. People are allowed to play a class the way they want. People need to open their eyes to the value of each spec. Certainly I, and others like me aren't the only ones with brains that can figure out the strength behind each class/spec.
There are 15 classes per realm. There is no reason to be pigeon holed into a particular class to be accepted. There is also no need to be pigeon holed into a certain spec in that class to be accepted. Mythic made 3 specs and many RA's for the ability to individualize ourselves. I'm sure there are some specs and RA's that do better for soloers, but you should understand that not all of us care about getting to max lvl asap and some of us like to group.
I'm tired of people being such elitists and narrow minded. I guarantee all of you would go home crying if mythic revamped the game like SOE did to SWG and made every class like WoW, where you get an ability at a certain lvl and every class is the same as the next. If you know you wouldn't like for Mythic to do that, then why do you force your race/class/specs on people as a standard that they have to meet? Since I am sure none of you want that to happen, why not be fair and open up your standards to all race/class/spec/RA combonations when saying that everyone can solo oj's and reds.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
JK it is not that people are trying to force there specs onto people its just people are trying to give people an idea of how to spec a toon I had a tons of people ask me how I speced my nightshade. Sometimes I just told people just for an idea I dont force anything on no one. But if mythic did revamp this game like WOW I will sell my 3 accounts cause WOW is a kids game. WOW is for those people that don`t understand MMORPGs and just bounce from every new MMORPG that comes out. DAOC is the first MMORPG I have ever played and I been playing it for 4 years now and I`m still playing strong. WOW was my second MMORPG I just wanted to see what was the big deal was in WOW since alot of people played it on my ship and I found out that WOW is the most simpleton game I have ever played. Blizzard just made something and just put it on the market I wonder if they even tested the game themselves before they released it. For the people that haven`t seen it look at www.vidilife.com and look for South Park Make Love Not Warcraft video for a funny time.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch
Now Playing : Black Desert Online
"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."