Sometimes I'm of the opinion that many of these hardcore players don't really praise a game for its difficulty, but rather for its tediousness. How on earth can anyone claim that slow leveling and meaningless time sinks = hard gameplay? Its certainly a different approach from the non-raiding aspect of WoW, but it most certainly isn't harder, just much more time consuming. I would equate harder to the difficulty of the combat system in general. How difficult is it to defeat monsters your level? How difficult is it to defeat group based encounters? How difficult are the raid encounters? Is it plain button mashing or do I have to actually use stragety to defeat an AI monster? How often do I die in equal level combat? Those are the comparisons that can be made to actually guage a game's difficulty.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is.
Sorry, I can't do that.
See, I have a full time job, and a wife and I like going outside my house sometimes when not at work. I didn't have 10 hours a shot to raid the same dungeon over and over and over and over and over to possibly get the drop I needed.
Dont mistake repition for difficulty. Just cause you have to repeat something several hundred times to get what you need doesnt make it hard.
"Here is your burger sir" "Um...Where is the meat? "Well...Sir, The burger wasn't quite ready yet so we thought you might like to start with the lettuce and the bun...We will get the meat to you as soon as we can it's just not ready yet."
MMMmmmm good, Mc Vanbois
HAHAHHA sooooooooo true.
I'd rather snack on delicious cookies all day to fill me up then get served a meal that isn't cooked right, is missing half the ingredients, presented to me by the worst wait staff in history, and isn't going to be served for another six months....
Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is.
WoW is hard? Didnt know that.
It isn't hard to get to 60, or even 70. Many of the instances are not that hard. But there is content in the game for people who like a challenge. Most people never experience it. My point is that I want to see those who say it's easy to demonstrate they have faced and met those challenges.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is.
WoW is hard? Didnt know that.
It isn't hard to get to 60, or even 70. Many of the instances are not that hard. But there is content in the game for people who like a challenge. Most people never experience it. My point is that I want to see those who say it's easy to demonstrate they have faced and met those challenges.
Yeah anyone who think there is no challenge in WoW or that the ENTIRE game is too easy, post up some pics of you next to defeated boss' in MC, BWL, AQ40, NAXX, or any of the new raids. And don't just steal them from my guild's website.
Its all a matter of perspective and gameplay style.
I start a mmo under the assumption that I will be playing that game for years. I do play them for years. I commited to Vanguard now for at least 2-3 years..longer I hope. I may have a fling on the side here and there...maybe..but after a 3 year stint in Horizons..playing daily...I know that these worlds have there ups and downs and experiencing these worlds over the long haul is what makes a mmorpg really different than other types of video game entertainment.
I pick a mmorpg...i stick with it...through the good times and the bad...and in the end..what I find that I have a much more enriching and fullfilling experience. It's almost like any real life relationship ...and sadly..much like todays real life relationships..many leave soon as the going gets rough. They do not understand the sweet aint so sweet without some bitter ! The just want sweet..sweet..sweet..much like my own real life children. To me...a mmorpg is in it's own right ...a living entity..that grows and evolves..and eventualy dies.
Its all a matter of perspective and gameplay style. I start a mmo under the assumption that I will be playing that game for years. I do play them for years. I commited to Vanguard now for at least 2-3 years..longer I hope. I may have a fling on the side here and there...maybe..but after a 3 year stint in Horizons..playing daily...I know that these worlds have there ups and downs and experiencing these worlds over the long haul is what makes a mmorpg really different than other types of video game entertainment. I pick a mmorpg...i stick with it...through the good times and the bad...and in the end..what I find that I have a much more enriching and fullfilling experience. It's almost like any real life relationship ...and sadly..much like todays real life relationships..many leave soon as the going gets rough. They do not understand the sweet aint so sweet without some bitter ! The just want sweet..sweet..sweet..much like my own real life children. To me...a mmorpg is in it's own right ...a living entity..that grows and evolves..and eventualy dies.
WOW is that chocolate chip cookie on your way out the door, VG is that steak and potato you have to sit down for. WOW is a bowl of ice cream, VG is a bucket of KFC. WOW is a piece of white cake, VG is a large bowl of beef stew.
When your finished with WoW, You ask, now where can I get soemthing to eat. When your finished with VG, You just think, WOW...
I am a vegetarian m8.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is.
I agree with that to an extent, but...well.... someone got from 60 - 70 in 28 hours..... 1/3rd of my guild went from 60-70 in just over a week.... that doesn't seem like a difficult endeavour for an expansion that was 2 years in the making. I like WoW, I still have my account. and it is fun when I play. I do agree Vanguard is like work, but when I ding a lvl, I feel i've accomplished something, when the time comes that i've helped my guild build their guild hall, and my wife her house, and i'm wearing armor that matches, again, i'll feel like I've accomplished something. Sure, Vanguard has it's problems, sure WoW has it's problems, but each game is going to have those that prefer X over Y, or Y over X. if everyone wanted the same game, after 15 years people would have figured it out you'd think having said that 7 million people seem to prefer the 'cookies' that WoW is offering. VG will continue to evolve into what alot of us are expecting to see, or it won't.... time will tell, i guess.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is.
Sorry, I can't do that.
See, I have a full time job, and a wife and I like going outside my house sometimes when not at work. I didn't have 10 hours a shot to raid the same dungeon over and over and over and over and over to possibly get the drop I needed.
Dont mistake repition for difficulty. Just cause you have to repeat something several hundred times to get what you need doesnt make it hard.
I hear you there brother.... work 10 hours a day, and as bad as I would like to spend all day playing an online game that I pay for, the Wife still needs my time. Not complaining, because we do go out and have a life outside of a cyber world. and TBH MMOs < Sex.
"Here is your burger sir" "Um...Where is the meat? "Well...Sir, The burger wasn't quite ready yet so we thought you might like to start with the lettuce and the bun...We will get the meat to you as soon as we can it's just not ready yet."
Its all a matter of perspective and gameplay style. I start a mmo under the assumption that I will be playing that game for years. I do play them for years. I commited to Vanguard now for at least 2-3 years..longer I hope. I may have a fling on the side here and there...maybe..but after a 3 year stint in Horizons..playing daily...I know that these worlds have there ups and downs and experiencing these worlds over the long haul is what makes a mmorpg really different than other types of video game entertainment. I pick a mmorpg...i stick with it...through the good times and the bad...and in the end..what I find that I have a much more enriching and fullfilling experience. It's almost like any real life relationship ...and sadly..much like todays real life relationships..many leave soon as the going gets rough. They do not understand the sweet aint so sweet without some bitter ! The just want sweet..sweet..sweet..much like my own real life children. To me...a mmorpg is in it's own right ...a living entity..that grows and evolves..and eventualy dies.
I can admire your perspective but I play to relax and have fun. I stick with real life situations through good times and bad; not a video game.
Originally posted by chiege WOW is that chocolate chip cookie on your way out the door, VG is that steak and potato you have to sit down for. WOW is a bowl of ice cream, VG is a bucket of KFC. WOW is a piece of white cake, VG is a large bowl of beef stew.
When your finished with WoW, You ask, now where can I get soemthing to eat. When your finished with VG, You just think, WOW...
Actually, for me VG is more like a tofu burger. Completely bland with no real substance and just pointless filler.
The way I see it, if you liked EQ you'll like VG. And I don't mean the EQ now, I mean the old EQ . It's not a new game, it's just EQ in a different setting. If you enjoy the wandering, no direction, create your own reason to play game style then it seems you got it again with this. Though honestly I dunno why someone would play this and not EQ seeing as how it has a tons more content...
Originally posted by Dawgrum WoWs raiding content could be hard. You'd have to get rid of all the mods that do everything for you first. Keep kidding yourselves though.
Obviously you never raided in WoW.
I am sure having those mods that make a gui layout for healing your party like cheating when you got such a craptacular UI as some other games.
Old games like EQ didn't have the ability to track DPS, Healing and what not and some people like archaic mmos so I guess I can see your point... if you like archaic mmos. Personally I like flexible UIs that let me see what I want to see... whether I am playing a healer or a tank or a DPS class.
WOW is that chocolate chip cookie on your way out the door,
VG is that steak and potato you have to sit down for.
WOW is a bowl of ice cream,
VG is a bucket of KFC.
WOW is a piece of white cake,
VG is a large bowl of beef stew.
When your finished with WoW,
You ask, now where can I get soemthing to eat.
When your finished with VG,
You just think, WOW...
Actually, for me VG is more like a tofu burger. Completely bland with no real substance and just pointless filler.
The way I see it, if you liked EQ you'll like VG. And I don't mean the EQ now, I mean the old EQ . It's not a new game, it's just EQ in a different setting. If you enjoy the wandering, no direction, create your own reason to play game style then it seems you got it again with this. Though honestly I dunno why someone would play this and not EQ seeing as how it has a tons more content...
I guess if you're a vegan VG is great.
That is the beauty of the MMO industry today. There are many choices for us. One mans meat is another mans poison, or tofu as you say. I, like the O.P., think Vanguard is like a nice steak with some potatoes and seasonal vegetables and WoW to me is like a happy meal. It will keep you happy for a short time, but after you're done you feel used and you can't eat it every day or you'll become fat and lazy.
Everyone has different tastes though. That is also the beauty of life itself!
One of the problems I am seeing pop up in game and guild chat already in your "full meal" game is the subject of boredom. And it seems to be getting said more and more. I myself have dropped my playtime by over half already, and am finding it less and less compelling to log onto VG rather than EQ2. This game, despite the promises - is boring. It is a grindfest. I have not yet done any quests - what I have done though is 133 "kill-a-rat" missions. The much touted scenery is all the same - repeated for miles. What is there looks great, but it is all the same hills, grass, rocks, mountains. Nothing new, interesting, or innovative.
No quests/tasks?! WTF are you playing? Sure, some x of y here and there, but that statement can be applied to EVERY MMO.
"Here is your burger sir" "Um...Where is the meat? "Well...Sir, The burger wasn't quite ready yet so we thought you might like to start with the lettuce and the bun...We will get the meat to you as soon as we can it's just not ready yet."
MMMmmmm good, Mc Vanbois
ROFL!!!!!!!! Thats So True LOL After waiting for an hour....
"Here is your burger sir"
"Um...It so small and only ketchup?!"
"Well... SIr, The burger is popular here. So we do it the easy way. It's also microwaved and pre-heated. We just made sure it was easy to do and easy to eat"
Amanthe said: Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is. I agree with that to an extent, but...well.... someone got from 60 - 70 in 28 hours..... 1/3rd of my guild went from 60-70 in just over a week.... that doesn't seem like a difficult endeavour for an expansion that was 2 years in the making.
Leveling is not much of an accomplishment, no matter what mmo you play. A monkey can level, be it WoW or Vanguard or EQ. All you have to do is find some weaksaurce mob to kill over and over, or get invited to groups. I had a friend in EQ who may possibly be the most incompetent player I know, and yet he reached max level (pre-Luclin). I don't care how fast the leveling is because I could give a rat's ass about levels, in this or any other game. I assume if you have an IQ over 50 and even some spare time you will hit max level in every game you play.
So if your point is that WoW is easy because people level fast, that's not much of a point. The question is, how hard is the hardest content after you hit max level? The hardest content in WoW is pretty damn hard, and if anyone says otherwise then prove you have met the challenge by posting your Tier 5s.
I thnk one of the reasons some people hate WoW is that their only real accomplishment in the game is hitting max level and getting lower tier gear. They see a lot of other people do that too and that means they aren't special, which causes them to say it's "easy mode." That is not , however, a reflection of WoW's being easy so much as it is a testimony to the fact that those people really aren't taking on the real challenges in WoW and distingishing themselves by anything other than a silly number over their head.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Amanthe said: Post pics of you in Tier 5 gear. then, and only then, can you tell me how easy WoW is. I agree with that to an extent, but...well.... someone got from 60 - 70 in 28 hours..... 1/3rd of my guild went from 60-70 in just over a week.... that doesn't seem like a difficult endeavour for an expansion that was 2 years in the making.
Leveling is not much of an accomplishment, no matter what mmo you play. A monkey can level, be it WoW or Vanguard or EQ. All you have to do is find some weaksaurce mob to kill over and over, or get invited to groups. I had a friend in EQ who may possibly be the most incompetent player I know, and yet he reached max level (pre-Luclin). I don't care how fast the leveling is because I could give a rat's ass about levels, in this or any other game. I assume if you have an IQ over 50 and even some spare time you will hit max level in every game you play.
So if your point is that WoW is easy because people level fast, that's not much of a point. The question is, how hard is the hardest content after you hit max level? The hardest content in WoW is pretty damn hard, and if anyone says otherwise then prove you have met the challenge by posting your Tier 5s.
I thnk one of the reasons some people hate WoW is that their only real accomplishment in the game is hitting max level and getting lower tier gear. They see a lot of other people do that too and that means they aren't special, which causes them to say it's "easy mode." That is not , however, a reflection of WoW's being easy so much as it is a testimony to the fact that those people really aren't taking on the real challenges in WoW and distingishing themselves by anything other than a silly number over their head.
WOW is that chocolate chip cookie on your way out the door, VG is that steak and potato you have to sit down for. WOW is a bowl of ice cream, VG is a bucket of KFC. WOW is a piece of white cake, VG is a large bowl of beef stew.
When your finished with WoW, You ask, now where can I get soemthing to eat. When your finished with VG, You just think, WOW...
You are so right. Pat yourself on the back. WOW is a treat. Vanguard is a meal. A half-cooked meal that gives food poisoning. FYI I don't play WOW but since you went that way I went along.
Comments
I look at it this way ....
WoW would be a game of checkers....
Vanguard would be a game of chess....
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Sorry, I can't do that.
See, I have a full time job, and a wife and I like going outside my house sometimes when not at work. I didn't have 10 hours a shot to raid the same dungeon over and over and over and over and over to possibly get the drop I needed.
Dont mistake repition for difficulty. Just cause you have to repeat something several hundred times to get what you need doesnt make it hard.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
HAHAHHA sooooooooo true.
I'd rather snack on delicious cookies all day to fill me up then get served a meal that isn't cooked right, is missing half the ingredients, presented to me by the worst wait staff in history, and isn't going to be served for another six months....
It isn't hard to get to 60, or even 70. Many of the instances are not that hard. But there is content in the game for people who like a challenge. Most people never experience it. My point is that I want to see those who say it's easy to demonstrate they have faced and met those challenges.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It isn't hard to get to 60, or even 70. Many of the instances are not that hard. But there is content in the game for people who like a challenge. Most people never experience it. My point is that I want to see those who say it's easy to demonstrate they have faced and met those challenges.
Yeah anyone who think there is no challenge in WoW or that the ENTIRE game is too easy, post up some pics of you next to defeated boss' in MC, BWL, AQ40, NAXX, or any of the new raids. And don't just steal them from my guild's website.
Its all a matter of perspective and gameplay style.
I start a mmo under the assumption that I will be playing that game for years. I do play them for years. I commited to Vanguard now for at least 2-3 years..longer I hope. I may have a fling on the side here and there...maybe..but after a 3 year stint in Horizons..playing daily...I know that these worlds have there ups and downs and experiencing these worlds over the long haul is what makes a mmorpg really different than other types of video game entertainment.
I pick a mmorpg...i stick with it...through the good times and the bad...and in the end..what I find that I have a much more enriching and fullfilling experience. It's almost like any real life relationship ...and sadly..much like todays real life relationships..many leave soon as the going gets rough. They do not understand the sweet aint so sweet without some bitter ! The just want sweet..sweet..sweet..much like my own real life children. To me...a mmorpg is in it's own right ...a living entity..that grows and evolves..and eventualy dies.
Good post.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
I agree with that to an extent, but...well.... someone got from 60 - 70 in 28 hours..... 1/3rd of my guild went from 60-70 in just over a week.... that doesn't seem like a difficult endeavour for an expansion that was 2 years in the making. I like WoW, I still have my account. and it is fun when I play. I do agree Vanguard is like work, but when I ding a lvl, I feel i've accomplished something, when the time comes that i've helped my guild build their guild hall, and my wife her house, and i'm wearing armor that matches, again, i'll feel like I've accomplished something. Sure, Vanguard has it's problems, sure WoW has it's problems, but each game is going to have those that prefer X over Y, or Y over X. if everyone wanted the same game, after 15 years people would have figured it out you'd think
having said that 7 million people seem to prefer the 'cookies' that WoW is offering. VG will continue to evolve into what alot of us are expecting to see, or it won't.... time will tell, i guess.
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
Sorry, I can't do that.
See, I have a full time job, and a wife and I like going outside my house sometimes when not at work. I didn't have 10 hours a shot to raid the same dungeon over and over and over and over and over to possibly get the drop I needed.
Dont mistake repition for difficulty. Just cause you have to repeat something several hundred times to get what you need doesnt make it hard.
I hear you there brother.... work 10 hours a day, and as bad as I would like to spend all day playing an online game that I pay for, the Wife still needs my time. Not complaining, because we do go out and have a life outside of a cyber world. and TBH MMOs < Sex.
QFT
Now there is an intelligent post
lol.
Actually, for me VG is more like a tofu burger. Completely bland with no real substance and just pointless filler.
The way I see it, if you liked EQ you'll like VG. And I don't mean the EQ now, I mean the old EQ . It's not a new game, it's just EQ in a different setting. If you enjoy the wandering, no direction, create your own reason to play game style then it seems you got it again with this. Though honestly I dunno why someone would play this and not EQ seeing as how it has a tons more content...
I guess if you're a vegan VG is great.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Obviously you never raided in WoW.
I am sure having those mods that make a gui layout for healing your party like cheating when you got such a craptacular UI as some other games.
Old games like EQ didn't have the ability to track DPS, Healing and what not and some people like archaic mmos so I guess I can see your point... if you like archaic mmos. Personally I like flexible UIs that let me see what I want to see... whether I am playing a healer or a tank or a DPS class.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Actually, for me VG is more like a tofu burger. Completely bland with no real substance and just pointless filler.
The way I see it, if you liked EQ you'll like VG. And I don't mean the EQ now, I mean the old EQ . It's not a new game, it's just EQ in a different setting. If you enjoy the wandering, no direction, create your own reason to play game style then it seems you got it again with this. Though honestly I dunno why someone would play this and not EQ seeing as how it has a tons more content...
I guess if you're a vegan VG is great.
That is the beauty of the MMO industry today. There are many choices for us. One mans meat is another mans poison, or tofu as you say. I, like the O.P., think Vanguard is like a nice steak with some potatoes and seasonal vegetables and WoW to me is like a happy meal. It will keep you happy for a short time, but after you're done you feel used and you can't eat it every day or you'll become fat and lazy.
Everyone has different tastes though. That is also the beauty of life itself!
eqnext.wikia.com
"Here is your burger sir"
"Um...It so small and only ketchup?!"
"Well... SIr, The burger is popular here. So we do it the easy way. It's also microwaved and pre-heated. We just made sure it was easy to do and easy to eat"
Which MMO i'm i talking abou?
eqnext.wikia.com
Seafood, no thanks. (raiding no thanks)
Treat or meal, don't care, it belong to the sea!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Leveling is not much of an accomplishment, no matter what mmo you play. A monkey can level, be it WoW or Vanguard or EQ. All you have to do is find some weaksaurce mob to kill over and over, or get invited to groups. I had a friend in EQ who may possibly be the most incompetent player I know, and yet he reached max level (pre-Luclin). I don't care how fast the leveling is because I could give a rat's ass about levels, in this or any other game. I assume if you have an IQ over 50 and even some spare time you will hit max level in every game you play.
So if your point is that WoW is easy because people level fast, that's not much of a point. The question is, how hard is the hardest content after you hit max level? The hardest content in WoW is pretty damn hard, and if anyone says otherwise then prove you have met the challenge by posting your Tier 5s.
I thnk one of the reasons some people hate WoW is that their only real accomplishment in the game is hitting max level and getting lower tier gear. They see a lot of other people do that too and that means they aren't special, which causes them to say it's "easy mode." That is not , however, a reflection of WoW's being easy so much as it is a testimony to the fact that those people really aren't taking on the real challenges in WoW and distingishing themselves by anything other than a silly number over their head.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Leveling is not much of an accomplishment, no matter what mmo you play. A monkey can level, be it WoW or Vanguard or EQ. All you have to do is find some weaksaurce mob to kill over and over, or get invited to groups. I had a friend in EQ who may possibly be the most incompetent player I know, and yet he reached max level (pre-Luclin). I don't care how fast the leveling is because I could give a rat's ass about levels, in this or any other game. I assume if you have an IQ over 50 and even some spare time you will hit max level in every game you play.
So if your point is that WoW is easy because people level fast, that's not much of a point. The question is, how hard is the hardest content after you hit max level? The hardest content in WoW is pretty damn hard, and if anyone says otherwise then prove you have met the challenge by posting your Tier 5s.
I thnk one of the reasons some people hate WoW is that their only real accomplishment in the game is hitting max level and getting lower tier gear. They see a lot of other people do that too and that means they aren't special, which causes them to say it's "easy mode." That is not , however, a reflection of WoW's being easy so much as it is a testimony to the fact that those people really aren't taking on the real challenges in WoW and distingishing themselves by anything other than a silly number over their head.
/Sign