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Anyone else shocked this game is still going?
Spykes_wab
Member Posts: 2
Longtime ex-MxO player here.
I beta tested the game, was a subscriber for about a year and got my character up to level 50 in beta and in Live. The game was a blast in beta and overall, MxO had a ton of potential going for it... but with the average reviews and lack luster lauch, the game went downhill in a hurry. I wanted this game to be good in the worst way, but its pretty clear now that MxO is going nowhere. Instead of giving the game what it REALLY needs (expansions to get new players interested, end game content, new weapons, etc), all SOE does is tweek the gameplay (making it much worse compared to what it was in beta imo). The developers aren't doing anything to keep they're current subscribers or pull in new ones. Once you hit 50, there is very little to do in the game. And even the few things you do have (Pandora's Boxes) are just as repetitive and boring as the mission grinds. Then there is the community, which like the game itself, used to be really good, but now is dying off aswell. And then theres all of the things that we're supposed to be in the game or be released later that will assuredly never see the light of day. Faction contructs (like SG Bases in CoH/V), the rumored "Freeway" Expansion, drivable vehicles, melee weapons (swords, axes, etc), extra districts (there was originally supposed to be about 10 iirc), and I'm sure there are even more I'm missing... Hell, they still haven't even put in the /afk command yet!
The little tweeks and additions SOE have have done are ok... I guess. But in the end, its like they're putting frosting on a turd and telling me its a cupcake. Unless they fix the REAL problems, its still just gonna be a turd (with frosting on top ofcourse).
I have a gut feeling that if we could get the raw numbers of how many subscribers MxO has and the average population of each server, the numbers would be downright depressing.
So my question is, what keeps this game running? Is it just Sony's need for a few extra bucks in they're pockets?
For someone who is a big Matrix fan and was a fan of MxO, I really wish they would have just cancelled this game instead of limping it along on life support like it currently is.
[/rant]
I beta tested the game, was a subscriber for about a year and got my character up to level 50 in beta and in Live. The game was a blast in beta and overall, MxO had a ton of potential going for it... but with the average reviews and lack luster lauch, the game went downhill in a hurry. I wanted this game to be good in the worst way, but its pretty clear now that MxO is going nowhere. Instead of giving the game what it REALLY needs (expansions to get new players interested, end game content, new weapons, etc), all SOE does is tweek the gameplay (making it much worse compared to what it was in beta imo). The developers aren't doing anything to keep they're current subscribers or pull in new ones. Once you hit 50, there is very little to do in the game. And even the few things you do have (Pandora's Boxes) are just as repetitive and boring as the mission grinds. Then there is the community, which like the game itself, used to be really good, but now is dying off aswell. And then theres all of the things that we're supposed to be in the game or be released later that will assuredly never see the light of day. Faction contructs (like SG Bases in CoH/V), the rumored "Freeway" Expansion, drivable vehicles, melee weapons (swords, axes, etc), extra districts (there was originally supposed to be about 10 iirc), and I'm sure there are even more I'm missing... Hell, they still haven't even put in the /afk command yet!
The little tweeks and additions SOE have have done are ok... I guess. But in the end, its like they're putting frosting on a turd and telling me its a cupcake. Unless they fix the REAL problems, its still just gonna be a turd (with frosting on top ofcourse).
I have a gut feeling that if we could get the raw numbers of how many subscribers MxO has and the average population of each server, the numbers would be downright depressing.
So my question is, what keeps this game running? Is it just Sony's need for a few extra bucks in they're pockets?
For someone who is a big Matrix fan and was a fan of MxO, I really wish they would have just cancelled this game instead of limping it along on life support like it currently is.
[/rant]
Comments
have left due to lack of content, And alot of people (me included|) wishes that monoloth didnt sell this game to
SOE...And like many other SOE games. this one is going down hill.
You ignore the maybe most important aspect of MxO: the storyline. Many people keep playing because the storyline is constantly progressing, because they like participating in (official, not player made) live events, and, well, maybe also community and community-dev communication as a nice bonus.
The game can't run without the storyline and meeting certain requirements (that's a legal issue), it's what the devs (or one of the relataively few, actually) spend(s) lots of time on, and what many players are interested in.
Also the reason why Matrix don't cancel out of pride - especially because this storyline and stuff are directed at and interesting to Matrix fans.
I don't agree about the Pandora's Box - I even don't fine normal missions with interesting texts and story meaning boring, I found PB very interesting with its search for collectors and box fights.
But opinion is opinion, I don't wanna start another argument.
And oh, they have put in the /afk command.
The story was part of the reason I stayed with the game for as long as I did. But after stepping back and taking an honest look at that aspect of the game, the storylines simply aren't that good. Obviously thats subjective to everyones taste, but with all the legal problems they've had which lead to changing how a lot of the characters look (leading to Niobe's hair and Ghost becoming a blad white guy to name a few...) and with them killing off Morpheus within the first few months of the game, they simply don't have any character that people should care about anymore imo. I have never cared about Niobe, even back to the movies, and I simply couldn't get into the characters they have since tried to introduce (Cryptos, Ookami, etc).
That being said, I see where your coming from with the storyline argument. The text can be interesting from time to time, but honestly, its nothing more than a glorified "Fan Fiction" imho.
And I will agree that some of the events could be fun. Again, going back to beta, the Events they had going as beta was closing was very exciting. Seeing the system messages pop-up was awesome. Even post-beta, those were pretty interesting and fun. Its another one of those things that really gave this game such great potential... but those events alone simply dont make for a good game.
But again, as the game went on, the storyline simply lost me. It simply wasn't interesting anymore. Not to mention I was disgusted with how the hunt for the Assassin turned out. They took forever leading up too our chance to really attack the Assassin, I was pumped for that even. Then the event turned out to just be a giant laggy clusterf**k of people amassed around the Assassin wildly clicking away on a single button for about an hour.
I just wish Sony (or someone else) would open up they're wallet, shut down the game for a few months, completely re-do that thing from the ground up and then re-launch it with a big advertising campaign. Seeing as that has no chance of happening, I would rather that thing just be put out of its misery.
From all it seems now, Morpheus isn't actually dead, his death might have been faked and he be held captive in the Machine city. But anyway, his "death" and his Assassin were the Wachowskis' ideas, so you should consider at least this "canon".
"Fan fiction" is a good point, because although many consider MxO "canon", it is actually written by an appointed writer who is let very much freedom, and in accordance to his outlines, again, members of the staff (right now it's just one, before it were a few dozens) are being creative.
In some way, it is fan fiction. In some way, it's canon.
The Assassin event... didn't have lag there
What I might really not like about MxO, as a Matrix fan, is that is has too much of "game" and "mainstream" - it includes a seriously meant storyline in it, but there's also meaningless stuff like level grinding, farming and weird NPCs in the city, anniversary celebration events are made - and that makes it less a "part of the universe" like EtM, and more of a "game inspired by the movies". Lots of gamers wouldn't like this, most of those you see complain here probably won't understand it at all, but I'd of course prefer a new version of the game without all this stuff.
But yea, not gonna happen.
Station pass is the key. Or the MMO's greaveyard as I like to call it.
Hate on SOE all you like, (and there are plenty of good reasons too), but SOE is the only thing that has kept The Matrix switched on. Monolith didn't make a great game and the Sony killed it, Monolith made a really crap game that never got anywhere and Sony bought it off them for peanuts.
It doesn't get any particular expansion or development time spent on it, because it doesn't have enough customers to warrant it. The original programmers no longer work on the game. The development it see's is thus restricted to balance tweaks (adjusting the variables..changing the damage score of a gun from 4 to 5 for example), or minor additions. A new 3D model for gun etc. Nothing that takes any time or great skill.
The PR people will of course tell you that the original programmers are still working on the game, while this may even be technically true, it is misrepresentative. The junior texture artist or beta tester/ janitor may have been bought by Sony with the game but obviously Monolith's core staff still work at Monolith and have been busy making games such as FEAR instead. In fact they all stopped working on the project long before Monolith sold it to Sony. most of them stopped the day the disc went gold, and a small support team, (not necessarily anyone who even wrote the game) took over.
I don't know what PR noobs you're talking about - the game developer "Rarebit" answers all questions on the forums, and he admitted many times that lots of artist who worked on this and that are not in the team anymore. Common knowledge, as we like to say.
"Not necessarily anyone who wrote the game" - I think Rarebit said he was involved in designing the city, and was one of the five mission writers back then. The other one, "HCFrog", was somewhere on par with Rarebit until he left MxO for another game (not DC).
There are two other developers that have forum nicks and we know of, one of them definitely, and most probably both, have been involved in the game before it was launched.
And don't talk about "no time and skill to develop" - MxO appears to have a very inconvenient and unflexible coding, and with the small developer team working on it, things like these do require time and skill. It's all relative, you know. But I don't think players or potential buyers are really interested in how hard the devs work, but rather in what they get of it - granted.
Yeah about two years before Sony bought it.
Then they released the game.
20 people working on it now. LMAO.
That's about a million dollars a year in wages alone.
20 people working on all of Sony's games combined more like.
One of the mission writers still works on the game? A bloke who can write 3 lines of text. Woot. He must be a core programmer then. As I said some office junior.
A damned good thing the janitor can't do his job too. Oh wait a minute he can. Anyone can.
Well if it took skill and time to develop it wouldn't be like that now would it.
P.S. your imaginary team of 20 programmers could hardly be considered a small team.
I think 1 programmer is closer to the truth.
I think it was instantly apparent to the majority of both players and potential buyers exactly how hard the dev's worked on it. That's why so few bought it, and so many players instantly abandoned it.
Yeah about two years before Sony bought it. Then they released the game.
There were 60+ devs right before SOE bought it. Let's make up stuff, yea?
20 people working on it now. LMAO.
Look at the quote right above. Look at the second sentence. I said there were less than 20 by now, there were 20 a few years ago when SOE bought it. Some appear to have left since then.
You can't even understand mindlessly simplistic statements if they are contained in one of the two sentences you quote in your post.
One of the mission writers still works on the game? A bloke who can write 3 lines of text. Woot. He must be a core programmer then. As I said some office junior.
A damned good thing the janitor can't do his job too. Oh wait a minute he can. Anyone can.
3 lines of text = absurd.
Your point: writing doesn't require skills.
You think the entire plot of MxO consist of three lines per month. No wonder you think it doesn't take skill.
Lol you're a hopeless case. There's nothing more I can say, apart from the insults I've just edited out.
Well if it took skill and time to develop it wouldn't be like that now would it.
The game development was done by the inexperienced Monolith and messed up. I'm talking about the current development team that has to rely both on this failure and the lack of itself.
P.S. your imaginary team of 20 programmers could hardly be considered a small team.
I think 1 programmer is closer to the truth.
It's at least two programmer (not the story writer) who we know on the forums. And we all know all devs post on the forums. LOL at the "20".
60 + people working on Matrix online right before Sony bought it?
F
A
N
T
A
S
Y
Name them.
Name 10 of them.
Name 5.
Why would you imagine there were 60+ people working on the game?
Battlefield 2 one of the highest budget games of this century only had a total of 50 to create that; and even then that 50 were only on the project for one year of it's development.
Do you really think the plots for you nightly "live events" are longer than 3 lines?
Why don't you try writing last night's one down and see how many words it takes.
"Neo goes to abandoned building and gives a speech".
"Neo tells X to go and talk to/ kill/ rob Y"
"Neo says Z is a very bad person"
Imagine the 20 people all huddled round the table each writing one letter in turn.
That's all I know, I don't know their names, or their forum nicks if they had any. The statement said "60 developers", it didn't contain a list of 60 names. Give me a break.
I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, I don't think you even mean it seriously.
Totally serious.
I think you vastly over estimate the amount of work that goes into this. My personal experience of the live events is not something I could not have personally coded within about an hour, (and frequently do in other games).
There may have been 60+ developers when the game went live, but there certainly weren't afterwards. The bulk of those 60+ developers have other work to do. They started work on Monoliths next project FEAR I should imagine and any subcontractors sought work elsewhere.
After launch they have a support team only. They don't need 20 texture artists and 20 level designers anymore. They aren't producing that kind of content. Matrix online didn't double in size in the first year. It didn't grow at all. No significant work was done. Just minor tweaks and bugfixes.
No new content was added to the game in the first few months, did you *assume* that Monolith was just paying 60+ people to sit around and do nothing for a few months? 1/2 a miilion USD in wages handed out for no result?
There weren't 60+ devs working on Matrix anytime after release. There weren't 20 + devs working on Matrix anytime after release. Unless they make an expansion pack there never will be again.
I very much doubt they even have 2 dedicated full time dev's for this project. Most likely they have a small support team who work on a few of SOE's games simultaneously. Have there been any new zones added? How many new dungeons? I honestly see no sign of any significant programming manhours added to this game. Surely a single level designer can make a new dungeon every 2 months? It's not like they are especially complex.
That's the real beauty of the live events. You can claim ongoing development and additional content without much in the way of costs. One person can do the whole lot and still have time free.
The team worked on CR 2.0 and Pandora's Box at Monolith and continued at SOE. I'd say those did require manhours and programming. Otherwise, the game was sold to SOE after 1-2 months, so the team wasn't big for a long time.
Right now, at least 3 devs work on MxO, because they post on the forums. Anything else is purely assumptive. It's apparent that it's pretty small - even the devs admit it.
There has been "gameplay content" and other stuff that looked like programming since then. Although probably nothing you'd call significant. I think I have to repeat myself again: the devs at Monolith messed up, and coded the game in a bad way. Things that might be a piece of cake in better coded games are more difficult and problematic here.
You're right about the live events and costs. I think I've even said that before you.
The problem is, you underestimate the fact that they need organization and preparation. And that they are really ongoing content, and not merely claimed. Or rather a part of it.
Your personal experience of the game doesn't exceed a week, according to yourself; according to yourself, your experience with live events doesn't contain more than one or two live events, and you haven't seen anything more than a few lines. But that's your problem, you base everything on your personal experience only. My experience with live events shouldn't be much larger than yours, but there are other ways to know what's going on - like official reports.
These used to take lots of hours in a day and people when the game started. There were like 10-15 people who were responsible for organizing events and stories pretty much around the clock I've heard. That's not the case anymore - one dev works on live events, missions, and other areas of the game. And as you see, live events are now much smaller, rarer and last for about an hour each.
Less manpower/manhours, less results. I think that's apparent. I'm not trying to say the live events as they are in MxO now take the entire day to organize and execute - that's wrong, and not even on an assumptive basis. But I also think you vastly underestimate their value and the work or skills they require.
You think it's some janitor that logs in for 15 minutes, "plays with you" and says a few text lines. This indicates that you underestimate both how live events are, and concordantly, what kind of work they require. You can't claim to have knowledge about the required work if you have almost zero clue about the actual product.
Now, I've already gone through this with you several times, so if you want any back up, scroll up and read there. But I don't think any kind of explanation of evidence is going to make even doubt a little about your correctness, and for these two reasons, so I'm leavin' it be.
2 words - Who, Cares.
Matrix is over, the movies, the franchise, the games. Everyone move along!
Known by you only.
There have never been 60+ devs supporting this game anywhere except in your imagination.
Frankly I have a hard time believing they even had half that number in the production phase, given the amount of results they achieved.
You still do live events. Happy to hear you find them stimulating. You say that more work goes into them now that only 3 dev's work on them than when 60+ did? You don't half talk a load of crap.
Do you honestly imagine people have to do more than one to get the idea?
Did you think it was impossible to complete the content of this game in 8 days?
Think again.
Things that might be a piece of cake to improve in other games aren't more difficult in MXO. There are plenty of games out there with equally as little development. Matrix isn't special. The reason they haven't fixed, is not because it is unfixable, but because it is unprofitable.
Other examples of minimum cost "code improvements" are nerfs and buffs, the editing of variables and integers. Adding new items. Adding new quests. There are loads of dead MMO's out there mate Matrix isn't the only one. We all know the routine. We've all seen it before. We've all been spun the same stories by different PR people on different forums also. In fact we've even been spun the same stories by the same PR people on different forums.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
There have never been 60+ devs supporting this game anywhere except in your imagination.
It. Was. An. Official. Statement. Grasped?
You still do live events. Happy to hear you find them stimulating.
I don't do any live events, and I don't partake in them. This isn't the first time I say that.
You say that more work goes into them now that only 3 dev's work on them than when 60+ did? You don't half talk a load of crap.
Somewhere at launch, there were 60+ devs. Among them, five/three mission designers, and a Live Events team that consisted of something like 10-15 members.
Now, we don't know how many devs there are. Anything you or I say is speculation. Get it into your head. Three devs have forum accounts. Only one of them does live events and missions. Not three, one.
I said there are less of them now, and less results. I don't know where you take your interpretations. Yea, one developer has to work more if he has more tasks to fulfill, but it isn't more work objectively.
Did you think it was impossible to complete the content of this game in 8 days?
If you played really many hours a day and didn't read or pay any attention... maybe. But it's *very hard* to believe that you leveled to 50 in a few days without an exploit.
Things that might be a piece of cake to improve in other games aren't more difficult in MXO. There are plenty of games out there with equally as little development. Matrix isn't special. The reason they haven't fixed, is not because it is unfixable, but because it is unprofitable.
It's both, dude. Bad game engine = more difficult to improve. Non-profitable - less money, less developers.
Its ridiculous, I've heard it's difficult to change a music track for a certain type of missions without spending very much time on it and risking to break something else.
Do you wanna tell me that even the better MMOs have this kind of problems?
Other examples of minimum cost "code improvements" are nerfs and buffs, the editing of variables and integers. Adding new items. Adding new quests. There are loads of dead MMO's out there mate Matrix isn't the only one. We all know the routine. We've all seen it before. We've all been spun the same stories by different PR people on different forums also. In fact we've even been spun the same stories by the same PR people on different forums.
Yea yea. Some new quests, some new items. That happens in MxO, but relatively rarely, and isn't really HUGE in size. Didn't say that's wrong or something.
It's official there were not 60+ dev's working on Matrix after launch.
Does that make you feel better now that I've told you it's official?
I'm glad we've settled that only one dev does the live events. It's been like trying to get blood out of a stone.
As for changing a music track causing other parts of the game to break, you're right, that is ridiculous.
So ridiculous in fact that i would openly ridicule anyone who came out with it. I hope you did the same.
Jesus H Christ, it's just game. Get over it.
You're acting like someone just deflowered your retarded sister or something. So what if there were 60 developers? So what if there were 1000? Who the hell cares?
The point is, the game is still very much alive. There are more devoted people in MxO than in SWG right now, and the storyline is progressing and not stale. But anyways, .... it's just a damn video game.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I'm not so arrogant to ridicule the statement of a developer who sits right there in the studio and works with the game's engine every day because I'm surprised at it.
I know nothing about computer or game programming. You might or might not know more, but you still don't know the code of MxO.
You should learn that there are people who have more knowledge, understanding or experience than you in particular areas, and that what they say about these areas values more than what you assume about them.
That's something we all have to follow, and it's laughable when someone doesn't.
I mean, you're so against MxO and stuff. Why is it so hard for you to believe that it not only lacks budget and devs but also has a shit engine?
That person, is not you.
Perhaps you should take your own advice.
I'm perfectly willing to accept that Matrix has a poor game engine. I believe that to be true. I also know what an excuse sounds like when I hear one.
There are aspects of MxO I know very or relatively little about, and many other players understand and know better. I do respect their superior knowledge.
My knowledge about other MMOs is definitely sub par to yours or Freiheit's - I never claimed to know more about them than you, and I didn't behave like that.
There's lots of areas in life and internet forums where my knowledge is limited, and I have no problems realizing it. Well, at least I try.
Although the person I was talking about in particular here, wasn't me, it was "Rarebit", the main developer of MxO who stated that. But of course, you interpreted it in your own way.
Your 8 day experience with MxO isn't an argument at itself, but you've proven in our discussion that your knowledge and understanding of this game is correspondingly small - definitely smaller than mine, in most areas, which might even be mediocre.
So although I didn't mean that, I'm also such a person. Yea, artificial humbleness sucks.
And dude, you gotta set your mind: either you believe MxO has a shit engine and is problematic in the most trivial matters, or you think it's an excuse. Either one or the other.
If it's an excuse, it's not mine - it's a conspiracy by the devs.
PS: In response to your answer in the previous thread - as I said, the reason I "flamed" you was not the negativity, it was the convinced ignorant nature of it, and your constant misreading of simple text. Just like right now, when you thought it was the negativity, although the opposite was stated.
Amen, I have a station pass, and I would rather play MXO then any other game on the pass time and time again.
It's alive and were having fun.
Jesus H Christ, it's just game. Get over it.
You're acting like someone just deflowered your retarded sister or something. So what if there were 60 developers? So what if there were 1000? Who the hell cares?
The point is, the game is still very much alive. There are more devoted people in MxO than in SWG right now, and the storyline is progressing and not stale. But anyways, .... it's just a damn video game.
No it's a chatroom with kung fu.
Bah, these forums have become too ripe with frightingly over exagerrated and unbacked opinion and the blindness of closed minded people to be worth it anymore.
What shocks me? That some human beings can be so ignorant and willfully blind to clear facts.
Take my advice forum readers, if you're looking for unbiased info/advice on MxO - these forums arn't the place for it anymore.