Has anyone found a chair they can sit in? A bar they can actually walk around and socialize in? Any tools to help DM a player run event? Is there any in game tools at all that support role playing? Yeah, no, sorry. Sure the "Setting" might be ideal for role playing, there's absolutely no support at a gaming level to make Vanguard a great roleplaying venue. Quite honestly EQ2, WoW, MxO, Lineage2, SWG, SoR all do a much better job at promoting RolePlaying, if not only marginally.
There are bars, they are called taverns and they are in every major city in game. on florendyl they hold weekly tavern nights in khals tavern. and the sitting in chairs are coming, was something that had to be postponed till after launch. So all your points you made with the exception of sitting in chairs are invalid.
Oh excelent, could you please link me a few things.
First the post where a developer states the date of the patch when they'll be introducing such animations as sitting, laying down and craftable goods that people can use for these animations.
Second, can you please post a link to the DM tools provided in game.
Third you can please detail any other tools provided to players to create and run player-run events.
Since your so quick to call my oppinion invalid, I'd imagine you have all this information on hand, correct??
Name a game that has built in tools for rp and name the tools? rp is usually always outside game community driven and taken in game. I can't give a link for the statement about the sitting animations as i don't feel like searching for it and 2 i really don't care if you believe it or not.
Not a problem, unlike yourself I'm not just talking out my ass.
Saga of Ryzom actually released an ENTIRE expansion devoted to giving players the tools to create lands and RP situations. You can find it at http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring. And that's not even bringing up their former live events, not sure if their still around but they used to be amazing.
-----------------------------------------
Star Wars Galaxies actually used to (I'm using past tense because I havn't played in a while and don't know what they support now) support player run events at the player level no less. Things like house decorating contests, silent/live auctions were always posted on the main site and the live event team would introduce structures and npc's as needed. It also had many in game tools and structures that were built specifically for RP options.
Matrix Online, both it's original and current development team at SOE have gone out of it's way to create a roleplay environment by creating a gigantic list of emotion animations, and pair animations, allowing players to interact together. Other ways consist of player run environments (bars), team run events (along the same lines of SWG PRE's) and of course RP story line events.
-----------------------------------------
I wont even get into Lineage1, Lineage2, Second Life, Roma Victor, Ultima Online and even the old Horizons which all do some sort of set up for Role Playing Fascility.
Now how about you, can you once again back up anything you said?
Ryzom's rp tools was added with an expansion, for what 2 to 3 years it didn't have any rp tools, vanguards only been out a month and even I who likes vanguard will agree it was released to early, but the exception is i'm willing to give it time and in time these tools you talk about may put in, but it may take a EXPANSION just like ryzom. The little things for rp i have faith they will be put in eventually.
Now SWG at release didn't have these things you mention when first released from what i remember but i could be wrong on that as it's been awhile since i even touched it, never really got into it even pre-cu/nge. So this reason may be why i'm not one those soe haters although i'm not a fan of 'em either.
Now speaking of VG it also has built in structures for rp, has player owned houses, player own boats, taverns, good lore, huge world, meaning full travel, complex crafting, well diversified classes and races, and eventually will have player shops, sitting animations, among other things they left out due to financial and time restraints, etc. but yet some of these things especially houses and boats will take time to come to it's own in the game world. Now you may not consider these RP structures but to actual rp'ers it is. RP is just about imagination within the game world, even wow could be rp'd in if you used your brain a bit even though it had no built in tools/structures to really bring out the rp.
All this is just my opinion and you may think differently and you have that right.
So wait, I actually answered your question, and I even provide you with links and yet you still respond by talking about things you don't know. To answer your blind statements, because it's only fair to do so as you don't seem to mind spreading around outright lies.
Saga of Ryzome had live events and RP tools way before the incarnation of Ryzome Ring.
SWG did have a live event team at release, on TOP of that, there was a Universal Story Arch which died eventually but was basically one huge RP event which players determined the outcome of and thus impacted the story over time.
Besides that though.
Show me links to support tools for Player Shops in Vanguard
Show me links to support this meaningfull travel (what this has to do with RP I have no idea, but whatever)
Not once did I say that Housing is important, it is and it's good and so are the player owned boats. But that does not a game that is supportive of RolePlay, show me one viable feature that does this or that is planed to be put in with a date???
You can't because there is none. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that. A game does not have to be the perfect RP venue but stop BS'ing and saying it is.
You can say what you want, believe what you want, i have a different view on what rp actually is, and is doesn't always involve dev ran events. To me real rp is community driven but i'm not going to argue about it anymore so you can say you won, or as the other poster said destroyed me, etc. etc. but in the end we all have our different views and that is that. Story over, thread done for me.
I don't have a lot of experience with other MMO's, but I did play SWG for three years... At launch they did have a Story Arc, but if I remember right it only had 3 chapters and was rather weak story wise, it was a long time later before we saw another story arc.... Most of the RP tools were not put into the game until after player cities were introduced (which again if I remember right was like 6 months after launch)
And yes you could sit in chairs in SWG at launch, but usally within a few mins you would slide across the room and would be sitting on thin air. And this never did get fixed, at least not during the time i played the game...
The Dev team did do special events like the time droids invaded theed, but stuff like this was several months after launch also... At least Vanguard has transportation, In SWG it took the Dev's a few months before we got speeders and like 2 years later before we could have multiple people riding in them...
One thing I will fault Vanguard for is the lack of story (or lore) within the game. If any game needed a big Story Arc to get people drawn into the game, Vangaurd is it... Hopefully will see some story arc's soon...
I find vanguard offers the best rp experience ever.
Having existing lore means nothing, look at warcraft, has more lore than lord of the rings, keep in mind lord of the rings was written by one man, and warcraft lore has constantly been updated and re-written and added to by teams of 100's of writters. There is no roleplaying warcraft. So what makes you think there is going to be roleplaying in lotr when most people i know who play it are harry potter fans?
Haha, you liked an rp event in Lineage 2 and trying to diss Vanguard's chances of being a good rp game?
Take away all the people that can't respect a RP pref. server, dump all the rp:ers there and it would beat
your Second Life 13 timers over.
Yah, it lacks tons of stuff. But in the end, it's about the surrounding people.
You come of as the queen of poing-poings in most of your posts, Shae. Starting to think you are.
LOL, queen of poing-poings??? I'm sorry, I'm sure if I was an 8 year old with an IQ of 50 I'd find that offensive but otherwise, thanks for the laugh?
To clarify, I never once "dissed" Vanguard or it's chance at being a good RP game, in fact I even said it was a great environement for RP. Why dont' you read a little. What I said was, as it stands now I do not find it a good game for roleplayers, not what it's going to be in 2 years, or 3 years, right now.
I provided links as a matter of comparison. So if you want to reply and try to insult me, pull up your skirt, read what I actually wrote and come at me with something more than "poing-poings" if you dissagree with me.
I LOVE the graphics in Lineage II. Were it not for the well known grind and the cheaters/botters taking the game over, I would have played it in a heartbeat.
Here's why I think Roleplaying has a chance in Vanguard:
The game world is huge which means that there is room for all of us and that you can actually find a remote location where you're more likely not to be interrupted by outsiders. You can take your secret meeting into the wilds and actually feel like you're miles from everything.
There are a lot of settlements and towns already in the game, and there are a lot of Factions governing the responses within these settlements. This means that you can have an individual relationship with all the Factions in the game regardless of your Class/Race combination. For instance, if you take the time as a Dark Elf to help Khal get rid of the various highwaymen etc surrounding the city, you are allowed safe access into the city by the guards. If you do nothing for Khal, you're automatically seen as a representative for the Dark Elf territory and therefore an enemy. Your actions matter.
In order to really succeed beyond the mediocre range of the Adventuring sphere you have to be social. Have to be. This will not be to the liking of all but since I'm a social creature it suits me fine. Bringing people together can (and does) make for nice times.
Harvesting is set up in such a way that it is preferable to do in groups. Your yield is better and you are therefore encouraged to become more social. Again, some people prefer a soloable game while others do not.
You can build your own houses and guild halls. Once a town is properly established, it gets it own Faction. This means the possibility for cross-standardFaction relationships. You discard the mannerisms and prejudice of your original race in favour of devoting yourself to your community.
Crafting is (as far as I have heard from our Crafters in my gaming group) co-dependent at higher levels, meaning that not everything can be created from scratch by a single individual.
Diplomacy, the non-violent social interaction and manipulation of the NPC sphere is also in the game. More people working together to create a sort of coven that controls the atmosphere, bias, and attitude of a settlement is possible. It is a game effect, that's true, but it is a nice game effect. I'm aware that it needs to be a bit more bug-fixed, but it is already vastly more stable (and therefore reliable) than it was at launch.
Character customization is good. There are two shortcomings: The amount of haircuts and the amount of facial hairstyles. I hope more are added to those two categories, the rest are great. I saw a post where somebody complained only four faces were available. Try turning everything in Nose, Eyes, and Lips to the far right and choose the four faces. Now turn everything to the far left and choose the four faces. They look VERY different, so faces are really just there to dictate lip color and a few tattoos/markings.
Character customization is not set in stone. At any time before logging in with the character you can change any part of him/her you want. You can have a hairstyle change, or put on weight, anything you like. If you have been away from the game for a few weeks, waste away some of the muscle and put on a pot-belly. You can claim you have been away on a long hiatus at a rich noble's house and eaten more than usual with no exercise.
THE BAD THINGS:
You can't sit on chairs. Yet. I think that's a huge oversight and "yet" doesn't quite cut it for me personally.
There are too few interaction emotes that has no other purpose instead of being of a social nature. Yes, you can bow, wave, cower, and so on, but you can't drink a toast, give a hug (as the DDO hug, not the "X gives Y a hug" crap).
You can't build roads and bridges. Let us carve a path in the wilderness, I would enjoy that immensely. And I would name the bridge after myself ofcourse!
Propably lots more, that's the first three that popped into my mind.
Has anyone found a chair they can sit in? A bar they can actually walk around and socialize in? Any tools to help DM a player run event? Is there any in game tools at all that support role playing? Yeah, no, sorry. Sure the "Setting" might be ideal for role playing, there's absolutely no support at a gaming level to make Vanguard a great roleplaying venue. Quite honestly EQ2, WoW, MxO, Lineage2, SWG, SoR all do a much better job at promoting RolePlaying, if not only marginally.
There are bars, they are called taverns and they are in every major city in game. on florendyl they hold weekly tavern nights in khals tavern. and the sitting in chairs are coming, was something that had to be postponed till after launch. So all your points you made with the exception of sitting in chairs are invalid.
Oh excelent, could you please link me a few things.
First the post where a developer states the date of the patch when they'll be introducing such animations as sitting, laying down and craftable goods that people can use for these animations.
Second, can you please post a link to the DM tools provided in game.
Third you can please detail any other tools provided to players to create and run player-run events.
Since your so quick to call my oppinion invalid, I'd imagine you have all this information on hand, correct??
Name a game that has built in tools for rp and name the tools? rp is usually always outside game community driven and taken in game. I can't give a link for the statement about the sitting animations as i don't feel like searching for it and 2 i really don't care if you believe it or not.
Not a problem, unlike yourself I'm not just talking out my ass.
Saga of Ryzom actually released an ENTIRE expansion devoted to giving players the tools to create lands and RP situations. You can find it at http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring. And that's not even bringing up their former live events, not sure if their still around but they used to be amazing.
-----------------------------------------
Star Wars Galaxies actually used to (I'm using past tense because I havn't played in a while and don't know what they support now) support player run events at the player level no less. Things like house decorating contests, silent/live auctions were always posted on the main site and the live event team would introduce structures and npc's as needed. It also had many in game tools and structures that were built specifically for RP options.
Matrix Online, both it's original and current development team at SOE have gone out of it's way to create a roleplay environment by creating a gigantic list of emotion animations, and pair animations, allowing players to interact together. Other ways consist of player run environments (bars), team run events (along the same lines of SWG PRE's) and of course RP story line events.
-----------------------------------------
I wont even get into Lineage1, Lineage2, Second Life, Roma Victor, Ultima Online and even the old Horizons which all do some sort of set up for Role Playing Fascility.
Now how about you, can you once again back up anything you said?
Ryzom's rp tools was added with an expansion, for what 2 to 3 years it didn't have any rp tools, vanguards only been out a month and even I who likes vanguard will agree it was released to early, but the exception is i'm willing to give it time and in time these tools you talk about may put in, but it may take a EXPANSION just like ryzom. The little things for rp i have faith they will be put in eventually.
Now SWG at release didn't have these things you mention when first released from what i remember but i could be wrong on that as it's been awhile since i even touched it, never really got into it even pre-cu/nge. So this reason may be why i'm not one those soe haters although i'm not a fan of 'em either.
Now speaking of VG it also has built in structures for rp, has player owned houses, player own boats, taverns, good lore, huge world, meaning full travel, complex crafting, well diversified classes and races, and eventually will have player shops, sitting animations, among other things they left out due to financial and time restraints, etc. but yet some of these things especially houses and boats will take time to come to it's own in the game world. Now you may not consider these RP structures but to actual rp'ers it is. RP is just about imagination within the game world, even wow could be rp'd in if you used your brain a bit even though it had no built in tools/structures to really bring out the rp.
All this is just my opinion and you may think differently and you have that right.
Vanguard was released AFTER SoR's expansion and AFTER every other MMORPG with RPing tools in it. In my opinion, each game that is released AFTER another MMORPG should incorporate everything that prior MMORPG's have implemented over the years. This is called using what is already known. Don't take that literrally either, because obviously I don't mean the content and added world size and levels. I just mean the basics like RPing tools, helmet graphics, and more customizability.
To also be fair, WoW incorporates these tools either and makes sense in the in-game world. You can sit, get drunk, emote, use your voice with some emotes, among other things. You have taverns, churches, Inn's, and empty stores that can be used for RPing. How much sense does it make for an adventurer to actually own a home, when in most fantasy novels and movies the adventurer sleeps in Inn's or camps out until the story is over, which is when the adventurer returns home. In WoW, every class is an adventurer, so it makes sense not to have player cities or houses.
Anyways, I'm glad you enjoy your game, but nothing that Vanguard released so far has been worth leaving the old games behind that offer the same or more, except Diplomacy which isn't finished.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Has anyone found a chair they can sit in? A bar they can actually walk around and socialize in? Any tools to help DM a player run event? Is there any in game tools at all that support role playing? Yeah, no, sorry. Sure the "Setting" might be ideal for role playing, there's absolutely no support at a gaming level to make Vanguard a great roleplaying venue. Quite honestly EQ2, WoW, MxO, Lineage2, SWG, SoR all do a much better job at promoting RolePlaying, if not only marginally.
There are bars, they are called taverns and they are in every major city in game. on florendyl they hold weekly tavern nights in khals tavern. and the sitting in chairs are coming, was something that had to be postponed till after launch. So all your points you made with the exception of sitting in chairs are invalid.
Oh excelent, could you please link me a few things.
First the post where a developer states the date of the patch when they'll be introducing such animations as sitting, laying down and craftable goods that people can use for these animations.
Second, can you please post a link to the DM tools provided in game.
Third you can please detail any other tools provided to players to create and run player-run events.
Since your so quick to call my oppinion invalid, I'd imagine you have all this information on hand, correct??
Name a game that has built in tools for rp and name the tools? rp is usually always outside game community driven and taken in game. I can't give a link for the statement about the sitting animations as i don't feel like searching for it and 2 i really don't care if you believe it or not.
Not a problem, unlike yourself I'm not just talking out my ass.
Saga of Ryzom actually released an ENTIRE expansion devoted to giving players the tools to create lands and RP situations. You can find it at http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring. And that's not even bringing up their former live events, not sure if their still around but they used to be amazing.
-----------------------------------------
Star Wars Galaxies actually used to (I'm using past tense because I havn't played in a while and don't know what they support now) support player run events at the player level no less. Things like house decorating contests, silent/live auctions were always posted on the main site and the live event team would introduce structures and npc's as needed. It also had many in game tools and structures that were built specifically for RP options.
Matrix Online, both it's original and current development team at SOE have gone out of it's way to create a roleplay environment by creating a gigantic list of emotion animations, and pair animations, allowing players to interact together. Other ways consist of player run environments (bars), team run events (along the same lines of SWG PRE's) and of course RP story line events.
-----------------------------------------
I wont even get into Lineage1, Lineage2, Second Life, Roma Victor, Ultima Online and even the old Horizons which all do some sort of set up for Role Playing Fascility.
Now how about you, can you once again back up anything you said?
Ryzom's rp tools was added with an expansion, for what 2 to 3 years it didn't have any rp tools, vanguards only been out a month and even I who likes vanguard will agree it was released to early, but the exception is i'm willing to give it time and in time these tools you talk about may put in, but it may take a EXPANSION just like ryzom. The little things for rp i have faith they will be put in eventually.
Now SWG at release didn't have these things you mention when first released from what i remember but i could be wrong on that as it's been awhile since i even touched it, never really got into it even pre-cu/nge. So this reason may be why i'm not one those soe haters although i'm not a fan of 'em either.
Now speaking of VG it also has built in structures for rp, has player owned houses, player own boats, taverns, good lore, huge world, meaning full travel, complex crafting, well diversified classes and races, and eventually will have player shops, sitting animations, among other things they left out due to financial and time restraints, etc. but yet some of these things especially houses and boats will take time to come to it's own in the game world. Now you may not consider these RP structures but to actual rp'ers it is. RP is just about imagination within the game world, even wow could be rp'd in if you used your brain a bit even though it had no built in tools/structures to really bring out the rp.
All this is just my opinion and you may think differently and you have that right.
So wait, I actually answered your question, and I even provide you with links and yet you still respond by talking about things you don't know. To answer your blind statements, because it's only fair to do so as you don't seem to mind spreading around outright lies.
Saga of Ryzome had live events and RP tools way before the incarnation of Ryzome Ring.
SWG did have a live event team at release, on TOP of that, there was a Universal Story Arch which died eventually but was basically one huge RP event which players determined the outcome of and thus impacted the story over time.
Besides that though.
Show me links to support tools for Player Shops in Vanguard
Show me links to support this meaningfull travel (what this has to do with RP I have no idea, but whatever)
Not once did I say that Housing is important, it is and it's good and so are the player owned boats. But that does not a game that is supportive of RolePlay, show me one viable feature that does this or that is planed to be put in with a date???
You can't because there is none. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that. A game does not have to be the perfect RP venue but stop BS'ing and saying it is.
You can say what you want, believe what you want, i have a different view on what rp actually is, and is doesn't always involve dev ran events. To me real rp is community driven but i'm not going to argue about it anymore so you can say you won, or as the other poster said destroyed me, etc. etc. but in the end we all have our different views and that is that. Story over, thread done for me.
I don't think Shae was saying you need those for RP, she was saying that RPing tools makes a game a good place for RP. You can RP in any game really, because you just need an imagination for RP. However, some games aren't very supportive of RPers. To be supportive, you need to host a RPing server, offer tools, and possibly have events on a regular basis. Anything that makes the game feel more like a world instead of a game.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I find vanguard offers the best rp experience ever. Having existing lore means nothing, look at warcraft, has more lore than lord of the rings, keep in mind lord of the rings was written by one man, and warcraft lore has constantly been updated and re-written and added to by teams of 100's of writters. There is no roleplaying warcraft. So what makes you think there is going to be roleplaying in lotr when most people i know who play it are harry potter fans?
I was in a 80+ member medium RPing guild on the RPing server Moonguard. Our guild was just one of many other guilds just like ours. So don't try to say there is no RPing in WoW, when there are more RPers in WoW than there are people playing many MMORPGs out there.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Vanguard was released AFTER SoR's expansion and AFTER every other MMORPG with RPing tools in it. In my opinion, each game that is released AFTER another MMORPG should incorporate everything that prior MMORPG's have implemented over the years. This is called using what is already known. Don't take that literrally either, because obviously I don't mean the content and added world size and levels. I just mean the basics like RPing tools, helmet graphics, and more customizability. To also be fair, WoW incorporates these tools either and makes sense in the in-game world. You can sit, get drunk, emote, use your voice with some emotes, among other things. You have taverns, churches, Inn's, and empty stores that can be used for RPing. How much sense does it make for an adventurer to actually own a home, when in most fantasy novels and movies the adventurer sleeps in Inn's or camps out until the story is over, which is when the adventurer returns home. In WoW, every class is an adventurer, so it makes sense not to have player cities or houses. Anyways, I'm glad you enjoy your game, but nothing that Vanguard released so far has been worth leaving the old games behind that offer the same or more, except Diplomacy which isn't finished.
Is this really your oppinion?
In that case I have one question for you: Have you thought about what you have been typing?
How long do you think it takes to create a computer game as complex as Vanguard (this is not meant as stamp of quality or anything, "complex" as in how big it is) ?
Do you really expect every game designer currently developing a computer game should take into account ALL other computer games in a given genre when creating a new game?
Have you even CONSIDERED how many times you would have to redo a lot of what you had already done and finished if whenever a patch, expansion, or something similar was added to ANY online game?
That is your oppinion? Truthfully?
If you have the complete audacity (or misunderstood pride?) to think "Yes", let me give you the short outcome of such an attitude: There would not be released any new games in any genres ever again.
Originally posted by Kcissem You can say what you want, believe what you want, i have a different view on what rp actually is, and is doesn't always involve dev ran events. To me real rp is community driven but i'm not going to argue about it anymore so you can say you won, or as the other poster said destroyed me, etc. etc. but in the end we all have our different views and that is that. Story over, thread done for me.
I don't think Shae was saying you need those for RP, she was saying that RPing tools makes a game a good place for RP. You can RP in any game really, because you just need an imagination for RP. However, some games aren't very supportive of RPers. To be supportive, you need to host a RPing server, offer tools, and possibly have events on a regular basis. Anything that makes the game feel more like a world instead of a game.
LOL.
Thank you JK !!! I had given up because I just dind't feel like gettng the hand puppets out but you've clarified my point briefly and accurately.
When I wrote the original post RP tools, DMs and Event Teams was not at all what I had in mind.
What I had in mind was a game that was set up in a way that could make you feel a part of the world, where your actions mattered and where the game system actually supported this. I wrote another post regarding that and whether or not Shae believes she has in some way "torn me apart" as was stated (gives cause to think a bit doesn't it, since my original post was an opener and the second post hasn't really been commented on) I still think Vanguard is a good possible venue for Roleplaying.
Whether or not it will become a better venue as time goes by is impossible to say.
When I wrote the original post RP tools, DMs and Event Teams was not at all what I had in mind.
What I had in mind was a game that was set up in a way that could make you feel a part of the world, where your actions mattered and where the game system actually supported this. I wrote another post regarding that and whether or not Shae believes she has in some way "torn me apart" as was stated (gives cause to think a bit doesn't it, since my original post was an opener and the second post hasn't really been commented on) I still think Vanguard is a good possible venue for Roleplaying.
Whether or not it will become a better venue as time goes by is impossible to say.
/sigh
Do we need to have a hug party to get this out of our system?
Let's clear this up, I don't by any stretch of the imagination want or have a need to "tear you apart", nor did I go out of my way to do so. The only time I got into details of other games and other situations was when I was asked to do so, all I did was provide proof and linked content.
All I did was provide MY oppinion, that doesn't mean I believe it's the global truth, just what I feel about the game itself. This is not in any way an attack against Vanguard, it doesn't have to be the BEST at everything. I just simply believe their are better RP venues out there and that Vanguard hasn't concentrated on this specifically yet.
That does not mean I don't believe it can't ever be a decent RP game, if not even a great one, because it certainly could. As I said in another post, once the developement team takes care of what they should be doing, which is making the game better, they might very well turn around and concentrate on some great RP tools, which I really hope they do of course.
By the way, I'm getting really tired of having to write a 3 paragraph disclamer everytime I may not agree completely with what someone writes. If you can't handle someone putting up a different point of view in your thread, dont' write it in the first place.
I have to disagree I think LotRO is a much better game for roleplayers, it has well written lore, instruments, smoking, and no performance issues, it also looks wonderful and the art style is amazing. I think roleplayers would appreciate not having to worry about system performance but still have a great looking game. You can also change your facial expression in LotRO.
Wow holy crap shae, in all my time being a troll on MMO forum's i have never seen some one destroy the OP as much as you just did....
Yeah, common sense and being in touch with reality has a way of doing things like that. It's nothing much better community members than myself wouldn't have picked up on had I not jumped on it.
Basically put Shae, if you do not want a confrontation, get your facts straight.
The arguments have not between me and you (I'm the OP), it has been between you and Kcissem primarily. If you then berate me for being out of contact with reality and without common sense, you're basically accusing me of being insane even though we have never really traded words.
The fact that other posters missed the point as well is not an excuse and playing coy about you not wanting to give hugs to people you slander is pointless. I never asked for any proof or anything else, that's something you have made up or it is targeted at other posters.
I wouldn't want a hug from you anyway, you come off as a person who would not only wield a knife to stab you in the back, but would also give you a knee to the groin.
Comments
There are bars, they are called taverns and they are in every major city in game. on florendyl they hold weekly tavern nights in khals tavern. and the sitting in chairs are coming, was something that had to be postponed till after launch. So all your points you made with the exception of sitting in chairs are invalid.
Oh excelent, could you please link me a few things.
First the post where a developer states the date of the patch when they'll be introducing such animations as sitting, laying down and craftable goods that people can use for these animations.
Second, can you please post a link to the DM tools provided in game.
Third you can please detail any other tools provided to players to create and run player-run events.
Since your so quick to call my oppinion invalid, I'd imagine you have all this information on hand, correct??
Name a game that has built in tools for rp and name the tools? rp is usually always outside game community driven and taken in game. I can't give a link for the statement about the sitting animations as i don't feel like searching for it and 2 i really don't care if you believe it or not.
Not a problem, unlike yourself I'm not just talking out my ass.
Saga of Ryzom actually released an ENTIRE expansion devoted to giving players the tools to create lands and RP situations. You can find it at http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring. And that's not even bringing up their former live events, not sure if their still around but they used to be amazing.
-----------------------------------------
Star Wars Galaxies actually used to (I'm using past tense because I havn't played in a while and don't know what they support now) support player run events at the player level no less. Things like house decorating contests, silent/live auctions were always posted on the main site and the live event team would introduce structures and npc's as needed. It also had many in game tools and structures that were built specifically for RP options.
Here's some Live event info for you: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/en_US/players/content.vm?page=live%20event%20Support&resource=event_info
--------------------------------------------
Matrix Online, both it's original and current development team at SOE have gone out of it's way to create a roleplay environment by creating a gigantic list of emotion animations, and pair animations, allowing players to interact together. Other ways consist of player run environments (bars), team run events (along the same lines of SWG PRE's) and of course RP story line events.
-----------------------------------------
I wont even get into Lineage1, Lineage2, Second Life, Roma Victor, Ultima Online and even the old Horizons which all do some sort of set up for Role Playing Fascility.
Now how about you, can you once again back up anything you said?
Ryzom's rp tools was added with an expansion, for what 2 to 3 years it didn't have any rp tools, vanguards only been out a month and even I who likes vanguard will agree it was released to early, but the exception is i'm willing to give it time and in time these tools you talk about may put in, but it may take a EXPANSION just like ryzom. The little things for rp i have faith they will be put in eventually.
Now SWG at release didn't have these things you mention when first released from what i remember but i could be wrong on that as it's been awhile since i even touched it, never really got into it even pre-cu/nge. So this reason may be why i'm not one those soe haters although i'm not a fan of 'em either.
Now speaking of VG it also has built in structures for rp, has player owned houses, player own boats, taverns, good lore, huge world, meaning full travel, complex crafting, well diversified classes and races, and eventually will have player shops, sitting animations, among other things they left out due to financial and time restraints, etc. but yet some of these things especially houses and boats will take time to come to it's own in the game world. Now you may not consider these RP structures but to actual rp'ers it is. RP is just about imagination within the game world, even wow could be rp'd in if you used your brain a bit even though it had no built in tools/structures to really bring out the rp.
All this is just my opinion and you may think differently and you have that right.
So wait, I actually answered your question, and I even provide you with links and yet you still respond by talking about things you don't know. To answer your blind statements, because it's only fair to do so as you don't seem to mind spreading around outright lies.
Saga of Ryzome had live events and RP tools way before the incarnation of Ryzome Ring.
SWG did have a live event team at release, on TOP of that, there was a Universal Story Arch which died eventually but was basically one huge RP event which players determined the outcome of and thus impacted the story over time.
Besides that though.
Show me links to support tools for Player Shops in Vanguard
Show me links to support this meaningfull travel (what this has to do with RP I have no idea, but whatever)
Not once did I say that Housing is important, it is and it's good and so are the player owned boats. But that does not a game that is supportive of RolePlay, show me one viable feature that does this or that is planed to be put in with a date???
You can't because there is none. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that. A game does not have to be the perfect RP venue but stop BS'ing and saying it is.
You can say what you want, believe what you want, i have a different view on what rp actually is, and is doesn't always involve dev ran events. To me real rp is community driven but i'm not going to argue about it anymore so you can say you won, or as the other poster said destroyed me, etc. etc. but in the end we all have our different views and that is that. Story over, thread done for me.
I don't have a lot of experience with other MMO's, but I did play SWG for three years... At launch they did have a Story Arc, but if I remember right it only had 3 chapters and was rather weak story wise, it was a long time later before we saw another story arc.... Most of the RP tools were not put into the game until after player cities were introduced (which again if I remember right was like 6 months after launch)
And yes you could sit in chairs in SWG at launch, but usally within a few mins you would slide across the room and would be sitting on thin air. And this never did get fixed, at least not during the time i played the game...
The Dev team did do special events like the time droids invaded theed, but stuff like this was several months after launch also... At least Vanguard has transportation, In SWG it took the Dev's a few months before we got speeders and like 2 years later before we could have multiple people riding in them...
One thing I will fault Vanguard for is the lack of story (or lore) within the game. If any game needed a big Story Arc to get people drawn into the game, Vangaurd is it... Hopefully will see some story arc's soon...
Haha, you liked an rp event in Lineage 2 and trying to diss Vanguard's chances of being a good rp game?
Take away all the people that can't respect a RP pref. server, dump all the rp:ers there and it would beat
your Second Life 13 timers over.
Yah, it lacks tons of stuff. But in the end, it's about the surrounding people.
You come of as the queen of poing-poings in most of your posts, Shae. Starting to think you are.
I find vanguard offers the best rp experience ever.
Having existing lore means nothing, look at warcraft, has more lore than lord of the rings, keep in mind lord of the rings was written by one man, and warcraft lore has constantly been updated and re-written and added to by teams of 100's of writters. There is no roleplaying warcraft. So what makes you think there is going to be roleplaying in lotr when most people i know who play it are harry potter fans?
LOL, queen of poing-poings??? I'm sorry, I'm sure if I was an 8 year old with an IQ of 50 I'd find that offensive but otherwise, thanks for the laugh?
To clarify, I never once "dissed" Vanguard or it's chance at being a good RP game, in fact I even said it was a great environement for RP. Why dont' you read a little. What I said was, as it stands now I do not find it a good game for roleplayers, not what it's going to be in 2 years, or 3 years, right now.
I provided links as a matter of comparison. So if you want to reply and try to insult me, pull up your skirt, read what I actually wrote and come at me with something more than "poing-poings" if you dissagree with me.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I
who me ?
A story arch and one or two live events? Wow, high standard you have on roleplaying.
As I roleplayer I'd want to see 14 orcs (players) attack my little village, while a bunch
of guards (players) were fighting them off. I would of course be there and the crazy druid down the road (player).
Now this would beat any lame story arch. I don't roleplay myself, But hell, even I could get into that.
Tool to help make events is a fancy +, but far from needed. Being able to sit on a chair, sure, but not needed.
Now tell me about a better classic fantasy style mmorpg that can pull above off?
Of course, you'd have to be on the pvp server, so again we're back at the people....
And if I wanted to offend you I'd say something offensive. Glad you liked it though.
You were however right, about the "chance of being a good roleplaying game" thing. My bad.
But hopefully you know what I was getting at or I'll start to believe the 50 thing.
The game world is huge which means that there is room for all of us and that you can actually find a remote location where you're more likely not to be interrupted by outsiders. You can take your secret meeting into the wilds and actually feel like you're miles from everything.
There are a lot of settlements and towns already in the game, and there are a lot of Factions governing the responses within these settlements. This means that you can have an individual relationship with all the Factions in the game regardless of your Class/Race combination. For instance, if you take the time as a Dark Elf to help Khal get rid of the various highwaymen etc surrounding the city, you are allowed safe access into the city by the guards. If you do nothing for Khal, you're automatically seen as a representative for the Dark Elf territory and therefore an enemy. Your actions matter.
In order to really succeed beyond the mediocre range of the Adventuring sphere you have to be social. Have to be. This will not be to the liking of all but since I'm a social creature it suits me fine. Bringing people together can (and does) make for nice times.
Harvesting is set up in such a way that it is preferable to do in groups. Your yield is better and you are therefore encouraged to become more social. Again, some people prefer a soloable game while others do not.
You can build your own houses and guild halls. Once a town is properly established, it gets it own Faction. This means the possibility for cross-standardFaction relationships. You discard the mannerisms and prejudice of your original race in favour of devoting yourself to your community.
Crafting is (as far as I have heard from our Crafters in my gaming group) co-dependent at higher levels, meaning that not everything can be created from scratch by a single individual.
Diplomacy, the non-violent social interaction and manipulation of the NPC sphere is also in the game. More people working together to create a sort of coven that controls the atmosphere, bias, and attitude of a settlement is possible. It is a game effect, that's true, but it is a nice game effect. I'm aware that it needs to be a bit more bug-fixed, but it is already vastly more stable (and therefore reliable) than it was at launch.
Character customization is good. There are two shortcomings: The amount of haircuts and the amount of facial hairstyles. I hope more are added to those two categories, the rest are great. I saw a post where somebody complained only four faces were available. Try turning everything in Nose, Eyes, and Lips to the far right and choose the four faces. Now turn everything to the far left and choose the four faces. They look VERY different, so faces are really just there to dictate lip color and a few tattoos/markings.
Character customization is not set in stone. At any time before logging in with the character you can change any part of him/her you want. You can have a hairstyle change, or put on weight, anything you like. If you have been away from the game for a few weeks, waste away some of the muscle and put on a pot-belly. You can claim you have been away on a long hiatus at a rich noble's house and eaten more than usual with no exercise.
THE BAD THINGS:
You can't sit on chairs. Yet. I think that's a huge oversight and "yet" doesn't quite cut it for me personally.
There are too few interaction emotes that has no other purpose instead of being of a social nature. Yes, you can bow, wave, cower, and so on, but you can't drink a toast, give a hug (as the DDO hug, not the "X gives Y a hug" crap).
You can't build roads and bridges. Let us carve a path in the wilderness, I would enjoy that immensely. And I would name the bridge after myself ofcourse!
Propably lots more, that's the first three that popped into my mind.
There are bars, they are called taverns and they are in every major city in game. on florendyl they hold weekly tavern nights in khals tavern. and the sitting in chairs are coming, was something that had to be postponed till after launch. So all your points you made with the exception of sitting in chairs are invalid.
Oh excelent, could you please link me a few things.
First the post where a developer states the date of the patch when they'll be introducing such animations as sitting, laying down and craftable goods that people can use for these animations.
Second, can you please post a link to the DM tools provided in game.
Third you can please detail any other tools provided to players to create and run player-run events.
Since your so quick to call my oppinion invalid, I'd imagine you have all this information on hand, correct??
Name a game that has built in tools for rp and name the tools? rp is usually always outside game community driven and taken in game. I can't give a link for the statement about the sitting animations as i don't feel like searching for it and 2 i really don't care if you believe it or not.
Not a problem, unlike yourself I'm not just talking out my ass.
Saga of Ryzom actually released an ENTIRE expansion devoted to giving players the tools to create lands and RP situations. You can find it at http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring. And that's not even bringing up their former live events, not sure if their still around but they used to be amazing.
-----------------------------------------
Star Wars Galaxies actually used to (I'm using past tense because I havn't played in a while and don't know what they support now) support player run events at the player level no less. Things like house decorating contests, silent/live auctions were always posted on the main site and the live event team would introduce structures and npc's as needed. It also had many in game tools and structures that were built specifically for RP options.
Here's some Live event info for you: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/en_US/players/content.vm?page=live%20event%20Support&resource=event_info
--------------------------------------------
Matrix Online, both it's original and current development team at SOE have gone out of it's way to create a roleplay environment by creating a gigantic list of emotion animations, and pair animations, allowing players to interact together. Other ways consist of player run environments (bars), team run events (along the same lines of SWG PRE's) and of course RP story line events.
-----------------------------------------
I wont even get into Lineage1, Lineage2, Second Life, Roma Victor, Ultima Online and even the old Horizons which all do some sort of set up for Role Playing Fascility.
Now how about you, can you once again back up anything you said?
Ryzom's rp tools was added with an expansion, for what 2 to 3 years it didn't have any rp tools, vanguards only been out a month and even I who likes vanguard will agree it was released to early, but the exception is i'm willing to give it time and in time these tools you talk about may put in, but it may take a EXPANSION just like ryzom. The little things for rp i have faith they will be put in eventually.
Now SWG at release didn't have these things you mention when first released from what i remember but i could be wrong on that as it's been awhile since i even touched it, never really got into it even pre-cu/nge. So this reason may be why i'm not one those soe haters although i'm not a fan of 'em either.
Now speaking of VG it also has built in structures for rp, has player owned houses, player own boats, taverns, good lore, huge world, meaning full travel, complex crafting, well diversified classes and races, and eventually will have player shops, sitting animations, among other things they left out due to financial and time restraints, etc. but yet some of these things especially houses and boats will take time to come to it's own in the game world. Now you may not consider these RP structures but to actual rp'ers it is. RP is just about imagination within the game world, even wow could be rp'd in if you used your brain a bit even though it had no built in tools/structures to really bring out the rp.
All this is just my opinion and you may think differently and you have that right.
Vanguard was released AFTER SoR's expansion and AFTER every other MMORPG with RPing tools in it. In my opinion, each game that is released AFTER another MMORPG should incorporate everything that prior MMORPG's have implemented over the years. This is called using what is already known. Don't take that literrally either, because obviously I don't mean the content and added world size and levels. I just mean the basics like RPing tools, helmet graphics, and more customizability.
To also be fair, WoW incorporates these tools either and makes sense in the in-game world. You can sit, get drunk, emote, use your voice with some emotes, among other things. You have taverns, churches, Inn's, and empty stores that can be used for RPing. How much sense does it make for an adventurer to actually own a home, when in most fantasy novels and movies the adventurer sleeps in Inn's or camps out until the story is over, which is when the adventurer returns home. In WoW, every class is an adventurer, so it makes sense not to have player cities or houses.
Anyways, I'm glad you enjoy your game, but nothing that Vanguard released so far has been worth leaving the old games behind that offer the same or more, except Diplomacy which isn't finished.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
There are bars, they are called taverns and they are in every major city in game. on florendyl they hold weekly tavern nights in khals tavern. and the sitting in chairs are coming, was something that had to be postponed till after launch. So all your points you made with the exception of sitting in chairs are invalid.
Oh excelent, could you please link me a few things.
First the post where a developer states the date of the patch when they'll be introducing such animations as sitting, laying down and craftable goods that people can use for these animations.
Second, can you please post a link to the DM tools provided in game.
Third you can please detail any other tools provided to players to create and run player-run events.
Since your so quick to call my oppinion invalid, I'd imagine you have all this information on hand, correct??
Name a game that has built in tools for rp and name the tools? rp is usually always outside game community driven and taken in game. I can't give a link for the statement about the sitting animations as i don't feel like searching for it and 2 i really don't care if you believe it or not.
Not a problem, unlike yourself I'm not just talking out my ass.
Saga of Ryzom actually released an ENTIRE expansion devoted to giving players the tools to create lands and RP situations. You can find it at http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring. And that's not even bringing up their former live events, not sure if their still around but they used to be amazing.
-----------------------------------------
Star Wars Galaxies actually used to (I'm using past tense because I havn't played in a while and don't know what they support now) support player run events at the player level no less. Things like house decorating contests, silent/live auctions were always posted on the main site and the live event team would introduce structures and npc's as needed. It also had many in game tools and structures that were built specifically for RP options.
Here's some Live event info for you: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/en_US/players/content.vm?page=live%20event%20Support&resource=event_info
--------------------------------------------
Matrix Online, both it's original and current development team at SOE have gone out of it's way to create a roleplay environment by creating a gigantic list of emotion animations, and pair animations, allowing players to interact together. Other ways consist of player run environments (bars), team run events (along the same lines of SWG PRE's) and of course RP story line events.
-----------------------------------------
I wont even get into Lineage1, Lineage2, Second Life, Roma Victor, Ultima Online and even the old Horizons which all do some sort of set up for Role Playing Fascility.
Now how about you, can you once again back up anything you said?
Ryzom's rp tools was added with an expansion, for what 2 to 3 years it didn't have any rp tools, vanguards only been out a month and even I who likes vanguard will agree it was released to early, but the exception is i'm willing to give it time and in time these tools you talk about may put in, but it may take a EXPANSION just like ryzom. The little things for rp i have faith they will be put in eventually.
Now SWG at release didn't have these things you mention when first released from what i remember but i could be wrong on that as it's been awhile since i even touched it, never really got into it even pre-cu/nge. So this reason may be why i'm not one those soe haters although i'm not a fan of 'em either.
Now speaking of VG it also has built in structures for rp, has player owned houses, player own boats, taverns, good lore, huge world, meaning full travel, complex crafting, well diversified classes and races, and eventually will have player shops, sitting animations, among other things they left out due to financial and time restraints, etc. but yet some of these things especially houses and boats will take time to come to it's own in the game world. Now you may not consider these RP structures but to actual rp'ers it is. RP is just about imagination within the game world, even wow could be rp'd in if you used your brain a bit even though it had no built in tools/structures to really bring out the rp.
All this is just my opinion and you may think differently and you have that right.
So wait, I actually answered your question, and I even provide you with links and yet you still respond by talking about things you don't know. To answer your blind statements, because it's only fair to do so as you don't seem to mind spreading around outright lies.
Saga of Ryzome had live events and RP tools way before the incarnation of Ryzome Ring.
SWG did have a live event team at release, on TOP of that, there was a Universal Story Arch which died eventually but was basically one huge RP event which players determined the outcome of and thus impacted the story over time.
Besides that though.
Show me links to support tools for Player Shops in Vanguard
Show me links to support this meaningfull travel (what this has to do with RP I have no idea, but whatever)
Not once did I say that Housing is important, it is and it's good and so are the player owned boats. But that does not a game that is supportive of RolePlay, show me one viable feature that does this or that is planed to be put in with a date???
You can't because there is none. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that. A game does not have to be the perfect RP venue but stop BS'ing and saying it is.
You can say what you want, believe what you want, i have a different view on what rp actually is, and is doesn't always involve dev ran events. To me real rp is community driven but i'm not going to argue about it anymore so you can say you won, or as the other poster said destroyed me, etc. etc. but in the end we all have our different views and that is that. Story over, thread done for me.
I don't think Shae was saying you need those for RP, she was saying that RPing tools makes a game a good place for RP. You can RP in any game really, because you just need an imagination for RP. However, some games aren't very supportive of RPers. To be supportive, you need to host a RPing server, offer tools, and possibly have events on a regular basis. Anything that makes the game feel more like a world instead of a game.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I was in a 80+ member medium RPing guild on the RPing server Moonguard. Our guild was just one of many other guilds just like ours. So don't try to say there is no RPing in WoW, when there are more RPers in WoW than there are people playing many MMORPGs out there.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
In that case I have one question for you: Have you thought about what you have been typing?
How long do you think it takes to create a computer game as complex as Vanguard (this is not meant as stamp of quality or anything, "complex" as in how big it is) ?
Do you really expect every game designer currently developing a computer game should take into account ALL other computer games in a given genre when creating a new game?
Have you even CONSIDERED how many times you would have to redo a lot of what you had already done and finished if whenever a patch, expansion, or something similar was added to ANY online game?
That is your oppinion? Truthfully?
If you have the complete audacity (or misunderstood pride?) to think "Yes", let me give you the short outcome of such an attitude: There would not be released any new games in any genres ever again.
I don't think Shae was saying you need those for RP, she was saying that RPing tools makes a game a good place for RP. You can RP in any game really, because you just need an imagination for RP. However, some games aren't very supportive of RPers. To be supportive, you need to host a RPing server, offer tools, and possibly have events on a regular basis. Anything that makes the game feel more like a world instead of a game.
LOL.
Thank you JK !!! I had given up because I just dind't feel like gettng the hand puppets out but you've clarified my point briefly and accurately.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
What I had in mind was a game that was set up in a way that could make you feel a part of the world, where your actions mattered and where the game system actually supported this. I wrote another post regarding that and whether or not Shae believes she has in some way "torn me apart" as was stated (gives cause to think a bit doesn't it, since my original post was an opener and the second post hasn't really been commented on) I still think Vanguard is a good possible venue for Roleplaying.
Whether or not it will become a better venue as time goes by is impossible to say.
/sigh
Do we need to have a hug party to get this out of our system?
Let's clear this up, I don't by any stretch of the imagination want or have a need to "tear you apart", nor did I go out of my way to do so. The only time I got into details of other games and other situations was when I was asked to do so, all I did was provide proof and linked content.
All I did was provide MY oppinion, that doesn't mean I believe it's the global truth, just what I feel about the game itself. This is not in any way an attack against Vanguard, it doesn't have to be the BEST at everything. I just simply believe their are better RP venues out there and that Vanguard hasn't concentrated on this specifically yet.
That does not mean I don't believe it can't ever be a decent RP game, if not even a great one, because it certainly could. As I said in another post, once the developement team takes care of what they should be doing, which is making the game better, they might very well turn around and concentrate on some great RP tools, which I really hope they do of course.
By the way, I'm getting really tired of having to write a 3 paragraph disclamer everytime I may not agree completely with what someone writes. If you can't handle someone putting up a different point of view in your thread, dont' write it in the first place.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I'm not paying $15 to sit in chairs. I can sit in chairs in real life.
Basically put Shae, if you do not want a confrontation, get your facts straight.
The arguments have not between me and you (I'm the OP), it has been between you and Kcissem primarily. If you then berate me for being out of contact with reality and without common sense, you're basically accusing me of being insane even though we have never really traded words.
The fact that other posters missed the point as well is not an excuse and playing coy about you not wanting to give hugs to people you slander is pointless. I never asked for any proof or anything else, that's something you have made up or it is targeted at other posters.
I wouldn't want a hug from you anyway, you come off as a person who would not only wield a knife to stab you in the back, but would also give you a knee to the groin.