Yes i'm glad the Vanguard backer's love gritty (I would actually call them something that rhymes with gritty) looks but their art direction is absolutely horrid. The gameplay can overcome that but unfortunately that might take a while Although I've completely left the SOE camp for good, I'm hoping the VG fanboys get a good product soon.
Yes i'm glad the Vanguard backer's love gritty (I would actually call them something that rhymes with gritty) looks but their art direction is absolutely horrid. The gameplay can overcome that but unfortunately that might take a while Although I've completely left the SOE camp for good, I'm hoping the VG fanboys get a good product soon.
The Vanguard photos don't do the real thing justice at all.
Vanguard's graphics are beyond amazing. Go to a mountain top outside of Halgarad on a clear day and the view is literally mind-boggling. I had a tweaked, overclocked vid card driver for a few days (before my cards decided they didn't like it) and man, I've never had a games graphics effect me like Vanguards. What I saw on my screen that day looked more real than what I saw when I looked out the window and it blew my mind.
Unfortunately, once I went back to the old driver, the world went back to looking bland and generic (like the screens you linked)
And the world's prettiest game world to .00000001% of the world's population does not make a fun game. In fact it makes a really boring one apparently.
But, considering LoTR world is about 1/100th the size, it's not really a fair comparison.
Why is justice involved when most PCs may not be able to display the game at the highest resolutions ?
Why would I want to compare screen shots at a resolution I am never going to be able to see ? Are you
setting me up for disappointment because I can't see the graphics as advertised ?
Why is the size of the world relevant ?
Who asked which game was more fun ?
Someone simply asked us which screenshots we liked better.
Preference in art has always been subjective. Always will be.
To me the LOTR screenshots look less computer generated than the Vanguard shots.
To me the LOTR screenshot colors look more natural.
To me the LOTR screenshots feel warmer.
To me the LOTR shots were better, but only marginally.
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
Originally posted by anarchyart I took these shots today in VG, click them to make them full screen. LotR looks really great for what it does, I just prefer Vanguards gritty look.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
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I took these shots today in VG, click them to make them full screen. LotR looks really great for what it does, I just prefer Vanguards gritty look.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
I took these shots today in VG, click them to make them full screen. LotR looks really great for what it does, I just prefer Vanguards gritty look.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
You seem to have forgotten two words that are implied in his statement -- "That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery,(To me) it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch".
It is simply his opinion and nothing else. If it looks like that to him, how can he be lying ?
Originally posted by roadwarriors And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
Yes, actually I can know that by looking at the terrain model the character is standing on, comparing it to their relative model size and the detail of the environment directly behind them (which even with a decrease of detail due to draw distance still displays more detailed, even texture application).
As I began my post with "Not knocking VSOH", it should be apparent that my statement was not a flame.
Nor is it an insult; it was a statement of fact. Someone just wasn't paying enough attention to that particular texture map. Whether it is an overly large texture or simply poorly mapped to the environment, the fact remains that it was badly executed. That happens from time to time.
Finally, I have no small amount of experience with exactly that type of situation so I am not "lying". I'm basing my statements on experience.
I've had similar problems mapping textures in the Unreal Editor on projects of a much smaller scale, so it doesn't surprise me that a few of these gaffs slipped through.
Again, not a hit on VSoH as a game; just an observation. I guess in my final estimation, I personally would not have included that particular screenshot as an example of VSoH's graphics capabilities.
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Maybe next time take your screens of vanguard with all the settings maxed lol .
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
Seems like we go through this every other thread, but credit to the OP, this is the best one so far
I have to say though - LotR is graphically the superiour, but having played both I'm stikcing with V:SoH as its a better MMO.
Anyway whichever game you go for enjoy it and try not to bash others.
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Maybe next time take your screens of vanguard with all the settings maxed lol .
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Originally posted by rungard once again technically superior graphics are beaten into the ground by superior art style.
What exactly makes Vanguard's graphics technically superior, btw? That everything's all shiny and bump-mapped, even though the game doesn't even have reflective surfaces, anti-aliasing, etc?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
In my opinion, having played both games in the "next to highest settings" (with the high rez DVD graphics active in LOTRO), LOTRO clearly looks better in every aspect. The fact that i can also run LOTRO smoothly on the "Ultra High" settings, makes it even better for me. I was a VG fan for a long time, and only recently got into LOTRO beta... but I just can't justify playing VG anymore. LOTRO is far more polished, far more optimized and far more fun to me. The suprising part is that I LOVED EQ1 and despised WoW, so from everything that gets posted about VG & LOTRO, the logical choice for me should have been VG... just not the case...
I'm in the same boat as you. I disliked WOW and being a veteran of old school UO you would think I would dive into Vanguard with my eyes closed. Thats just not the case. After playing in the BETA of LOTRO, I was so impressed that I preordered it. Who would have figured? The graphics in LOTRO are my cup ot tea, the world just feels so much more alive and vibrant. My computer also ran LOTRO graphics much easier than Vanguards. Its a win win !
Maybe next time take your screens of vanguard with all the settings maxed lol .
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
The main 'edge' LOTr has in the images is the water -- gotta love the reflections. But it's also hard to judge without playing both; games aren't pictures, games are movies. In Vg, the waving grass and trees, the changing patterns of light due to reflections, the 'feel' of the textures when they're up close, all add to the overall immersiveness. (At least when you play with all the settings way up...). Hard to tell from the photos if LOTR will look that good in actual play.
Maybe next time take your screens of vanguard with all the settings maxed lol .
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
Sorry I just heard "Blah blah blah, insult insult insults, I have an overactive imagination"
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
I dumped Vanguard and I have been playing LOTRO for a while. But when I saw these screens, I was still awed by the graphical integrity, the use of color and textures, immersiveness and art direction in Lotro as if I don't see it everyday.
I understand that it was hard work to clip and compare all those side by side. Thanks a lot
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The reason I think LotRO looks better is because of a coherant creative direction.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I don't know, we can't compare using the screens you provided. On the first one, you have a dusk shot from Vanguard in a different environment with the graphics settings on low. Whereas the LoTR screen shot is day and looks like the settings are high.
If you were to do it again, use that same first LoTR screen (hobbit town?), but compare that to a Vanguard screen of Rindol field during the day. They would be very comparible environements for comparison purposes. You'd also have to crank up the VG graphic settings too so you can compare the shadows and water reflections.
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Some of the Vanguard world looks a lot better in the game then it does in any screenshot. There are places that are breathtaking. But at the same time, only a small fraction of the Vanguard world is screenshot worthy. Most of it is bland and dull.
LoTR graphics are odd. They make awesome screenshots. Almost everything in that world makes for an awesome screenshot. But the in game experience is much different. As you move around, it feels like you are going from one picture to the next. It doesn't feel real, and it can even be a bit disorienting.
Personally I prefer the graphics in many other games to both of them.
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Comments
Yes i'm glad the Vanguard backer's love gritty (I would actually call them something that rhymes with gritty) looks but their art direction is absolutely horrid. The gameplay can overcome that but unfortunately that might take a while
Although I've completely left the SOE camp for good, I'm hoping the VG fanboys get a good product soon.
Why would I want to compare screen shots at a resolution I am never going to be able to see ? Are you
setting me up for disappointment because I can't see the graphics as advertised ?
Why is the size of the world relevant ?
Who asked which game was more fun ?
Someone simply asked us which screenshots we liked better.
Preference in art has always been subjective. Always will be.
To me the LOTR screenshots look less computer generated than the Vanguard shots.
To me the LOTR screenshot colors look more natural.
To me the LOTR screenshots feel warmer.
To me the LOTR shots were better, but only marginally.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
You seem to have forgotten two words that are implied in his statement -- "That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery,(To me) it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch".
It is simply his opinion and nothing else. If it looks like that to him, how can he be lying ?
Yes, actually I can know that by looking at the terrain model the character is standing on, comparing it to their relative model size and the detail of the environment directly behind them (which even with a decrease of detail due to draw distance still displays more detailed, even texture application).
As I began my post with "Not knocking VSOH", it should be apparent that my statement was not a flame.
Nor is it an insult; it was a statement of fact. Someone just wasn't paying enough attention to that particular texture map. Whether it is an overly large texture or simply poorly mapped to the environment, the fact remains that it was badly executed. That happens from time to time.
Finally, I have no small amount of experience with exactly that type of situation so I am not "lying". I'm basing my statements on experience.
I've had similar problems mapping textures in the Unreal Editor on projects of a much smaller scale, so it doesn't surprise me that a few of these gaffs slipped through.
Again, not a hit on VSoH as a game; just an observation. I guess in my final estimation, I personally would not have included that particular screenshot as an example of VSoH's graphics capabilities.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I have to say though - LotR is graphically the superiour, but having played both I'm stikcing with V:SoH as its a better MMO.
Anyway whichever game you go for enjoy it and try not to bash others.
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
the bottom line for me:
lotro looks, plays, and feels better.
once again technically superior graphics are beaten into the ground by superior art style.
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Hmm, is this your alternate account (OP)?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
Sorry I just heard "Blah blah blah, insult insult insults, I have an overactive imagination"
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I dumped Vanguard and I have been playing LOTRO for a while. But when I saw these screens, I was still awed by the graphical integrity, the use of color and textures, immersiveness and art direction in Lotro as if I don't see it everyday.
I understand that it was hard work to clip and compare all those side by side. Thanks a lot
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
The reason I think LotRO looks better is because of a coherant creative direction.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I don't know, we can't compare using the screens you provided. On the first one, you have a dusk shot from Vanguard in a different environment with the graphics settings on low. Whereas the LoTR screen shot is day and looks like the settings are high.
If you were to do it again, use that same first LoTR screen (hobbit town?), but compare that to a Vanguard screen of Rindol field during the day. They would be very comparible environements for comparison purposes. You'd also have to crank up the VG graphic settings too so you can compare the shadows and water reflections.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Using the death of friend or family, for a forum comeback? Now that's what I call offensive...
Here's what the screenshots don't show.
Some of the Vanguard world looks a lot better in the game then it does in any screenshot. There are places that are breathtaking. But at the same time, only a small fraction of the Vanguard world is screenshot worthy. Most of it is bland and dull.
LoTR graphics are odd. They make awesome screenshots. Almost everything in that world makes for an awesome screenshot. But the in game experience is much different. As you move around, it feels like you are going from one picture to the next. It doesn't feel real, and it can even be a bit disorienting.
Personally I prefer the graphics in many other games to both of them.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests