Sorry but the same logic applies. You would have to show me a 1,000 evil dictators from Kansas before Razors point would have any bearing on the subject.
I think the major point here, is that we don't have 2,000 to 4,000 years of data on same sex parenting to call up. That's why I consider it a social experiment. It's never been done before, we don't have any previous examples to examine. (Unlike with different sex parenting of which we have endless examples and which has been broadly successful for mankind across the board for millenia). I can't provide you evidence of failed upbrings from same sex couples, because there haven't been many recorded, not because there is any evidence to suggest they raise balanced children or not.
I also agree that sticking my nose into other peoples business. It is not something I advocate. None of my business is none of my business. Who cares about anyone in Kansas? I certainly don't.
That does not mean that I won't stick my nose into the business of children who I do care about and that when I do, I won't have an opinion.
For most boys, your father is your primary role model. Your hero. What he does and the way he does it is the correct way.
Some people rebel, most do not. Many people rebel and still end up taking after their father who probably was a rebel too.
In farming, when a sheep dies in childbirth it's lamb is abandoned. That same lamb when it becomes a mother, abandons it's lambs too. Those lambs if fostered go on to abandon their lambs too. And so on.
Children take on the traits of their parents. It's a natural law.
He will likely come out of it gay. That's not to say that all children don't take after their parents, only that most do.
So a child brought up by a single parent is likely to be single all his life? He will also likely come out it without the major influence of a female role model.
It happens with children of single parents too. If you like, you can strike them down too. These aren't things that I consider of strength to a person.
______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
People look up to their parents. For most boys, your father is your primary role model. Your hero. What he does and the way he does it is the correct way. Some people rebel, most do not. Many people rebel and still end up taking after their father who probably was a rebel too.
In farming, when a sheep dies in childbirth it's lamb is abandoned. That same lamb when it becomes a mother, abandons it's lambs too. Those lambs if fostered go to abandon their lambs too. And so on. Children take on the traits of their parents. It's a natural law.
That's all true enough, but the question comes down to whether homosexuality is a biological urge or caused by social conditions. Whilst socially the child may be more predisposed to homosexuality without data we can only speculate about what his urges may be. If you think how most gays have been brought up in a heterosexual parent environment, I'm not sure your argument necessarily follows in this case.
As I said, there are always rebels. I expect a number of people brought up in a homosexual enviroment to turn out straight too.
What about people who shag sheep? Do you think that is a biological urge or brought about by social conditions?
Well clearly their mothers must have been sheep.
I can't claim any expertise in the area of bestiality, but I would suspect that in most cases the natural urge is to shag something and the sheep is convenient. For the odd case that might actually be attracted to the sheep: well, it's quite possible that it is biological - some brain imbalance or something, but I'm just guessing.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Homosexuals … model a poor view of marriage to children. They are taught by example and belief that marital relationships are transitory and most sexual in nature. Sexual relationships are primarily for pleasure rather than procreation. And they are taught that monogamy in a marriage is not the norm [and] should be discouraged if one wants a good 'marital' relationship.
I'm against gay marriages. Why?! Because in order to mantain a healthy environment for children.(which they always seem to want to adopt) there has to be a healthy relationship. Now a child grows up, and sees two men/women dating eachother. That can confuse the child as to whether they should also be gay. It is not only harmful to the family environment, but also to society.
i'd have to agree with zell miller, keep in mind thats just 45million that has been aborted actually the number is much higher cause those babies would grow up and have more babies, that number could easily dbl. so in essence we have killed off areound 25% of our current population but also prevented up to 33% or more of population growth. You think about what could have been, and there is a whole world of things. I'm not one for speculating but who knows zell could be right, but this we do know Abortion is an atrocity it is mass genocide a war waged against babies from mothers who hate them who can't stand the responsibility of raising a child but want to continue having promiscuis sex serving their bellies, and will murder to continue in their sins.
i'd have to agree with zell miller, keep in mind thats just 45million that has been aborted actually the number is much higher cause those babies would grow up and have more babies, that number could easily dbl. so in essence we have killed off areound 25% of our current population but also prevented up to 33% or more of population growth. You think about what could have been, and there is a whole world of things. I'm not one for speculating but who knows zell could be right, but this we do know Abortion is an atrocity it is mass genocide a war waged against babies from mothers who hate them who can't stand the responsibility of raising a child but want to continue having promiscuis sex serving their bellies, and will murder to continue in their sins.
KeeperofKeb
ummm
I am against abortion, but I think you are being a little extreme here.
i'd have to agree with zell miller, keep in mind thats just 45million that has been aborted actually the number is much higher cause those babies would grow up and have more babies, that number could easily dbl. so in essence we have killed off areound 25% of our current population but also prevented up to 33% or more of population growth. You think about what could have been, and there is a whole world of things. I'm not one for speculating but who knows zell could be right, but this we do know Abortion is an atrocity it is mass genocide a war waged against babies from mothers who hate them who can't stand the responsibility of raising a child but want to continue having promiscuis sex serving their bellies, and will murder to continue in their sins.
KeeperofKeb
ummm
I am against abortion, but I think you are being a little extreme here.
Whoah! Someone actually exists that Outofctrl considers "extreme"? Man, if he says that, you're way out there.
This argument makes no sense. At no stage in my life did i conciously decide to be hetrosexual, not once, nor do i think people concioucly decide to be gay.
You know what i think of strength to a person ? The person themselves, not their parents. Some of the most amazing sucess stories of our time have come from people with less than fortunate backgrounds involving neglect and abuse. These people are a true inspiration, not this ill thought argument againsts homosexuals.
I consciously made a decision not to be gay pretty much from the first moment I understood what gay was. Long before I discovered what gay was I already understood that one day I would be married to a woman and have a family of my own. That I would have girlfriends and a wife etc. That this is how people behave and the way life works. (Admittedly I didn't realise it was going to be my sister...).The importance of family, and what a family looks like.
My role models never discussed this with me. They were simply my example.The role of a father in this family and the role of a mother, weren't taught to me, I learnt by observation.
I completly agree that some and indeed many success stories come from broken homes and unfortunate backgrounds, are you advocating breaking up your family to make your kids stronger? What nonsense.
It doesn't make kids stronger. The exception doesn't disprove the rule. You look at that kid who's mum and dad are breaking up. Tell me if that is a happy face. Ask their teachers if their grades are going up or down. Watch them get into trouble to get more attention from their parents bla bla bla. Watch them cry at the wedding when the woman daddy is marrying isn't mummy. We've all seen it. Just because we like the people it is happening to and are supportive of them in difficult times, doesn't mean we should advocate it or even except it as an agreable result.
I'm predjudice against gays. And I'm not the only one. Being gay isn't an advantage in life.
It is my responsability to provide the children I care about with the tools that best equip them to get what they want out of life. To manipulate the odds in their favour. Not to neglect them, or to be a negative role model.
I'm not gay. I don't want to be gay. I don't want any child I care about to grow up in the enviroment where gay is the default setting. Where being straight is not the norm.
If I truely believed there to be an advantage to be had by being gay, I would. But I don't.
If you're gay, good for you, I'm quite capable of appreciating you and enjoying your company. But I don't want to shag you, and I don't want to raise children with you. If you are a woman and you are not capable of forming a stable monogamous life long relationship, I don't want to raise children with you either. It's lambing season though so if those eyes are big enough I could still go for Ewe.
What about people who shag sheep? Do you think that is a biological urge or brought about by social conditions?
Well clearly their mothers must have been sheep.
I can't claim any expertise in the area of bestiality, but I would suspect that in most cases the natural urge is to shag something and the sheep is convenient. For the odd case that might actually be attracted to the sheep: well, it's quite possible that it is biological - some brain imbalance or something, but I'm just guessing.
Is it possible that gays have difficult times in their life because heterosexuals are narrowminded?
I'm going to switch the homosexuals with nearsighted people:
There is a child that has glasses and now all the children at school tease him and beat him up. You baff are prejudice at the child with glasses because being nearsighted isn't an advantage in life.
______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
So if I see a short sighted woman, I find her less attractive than a 20/20 vision girl. That goes for all physical, mental and even tempramental attributes. I'm just trying to adjust the odds. Good breeding stock is a factor.
Why gays have a harder time than hetero's is irrelevant. They do.
What more do you need to know?
You either have the childs best intrest at heart, or you don't. I am far more intrested in fostering the best intrests any of the children I care about; than I am about supporting gay liberation.
In fact I don't see where the priority for gay rights comes into the raising of children at all. While it's not for me to judge, in my persoanl life I would consider that to be very misguided and in fact somewhat irresponsable. Kids rights before gay rights.
Originally posted by baff I consciously made a decision not to be gay pretty much from the first moment I understood what gay was. Long before I discovered what gay was I already understood that one day I would be married to a woman and have a family of my own. That I would have girlfriends and a wife etc. That this is how people behave and the way life works. (Admittedly I didn't realise it was going to be my sister...).The importance of family, and what a family looks like. My role models never discussed this with me. They were simply my example.The role of a father in this family and the role of a mother, weren't taught to me, I learnt by observation.
So would you say that you believe that homosexuals have made a conscious choice to be gay?
That 99.99999% of homosexuals are from "normal families". I only leave the 0.000001% to allow for the fact that I dont know about test tube baby statistics.
Also Baff is right to say that not having any super positive outcomes from same sex relationship reared children (somewhat) invalidates my point, (as I disagree that it totally invalidates it). However lets agree to revisit that in 3 or 4 generations time, when these people have had a chance to set some results.
The runs are on the board for the so called "normal" family unit. We need time to see whether, on average gay couples produce Hitlers or Martin luther Kings.
I agree with Baff 100% that its about the good of the children. Which is why it is all the more important to focus on that and that alone.
Even having an opinion about what 2 men do with thier own bums behind closed doors.... is somewhat arrogant at best and a little disturbing in terms of why you care, at worst.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Of course I will bring up my child believing that sleeping with other family members is socially acceptable. If not normal. Mum, Aunty, what's in a name? People round here don't trust if you don't share the same surname.
Do you think gay people will bring up their children to think sleeping with members of the same sex is socially acceptable?
I'm sorry but I just don't see how that is in the childs best intrests.
I understand that it is in gay peoples best intrests, but I don't see it as in the childrens.
For me children come first.
Raising a child not to be prejudice is one thing, raising a child to be prejudiced against by society is another quite another thing completely.
"The exception doesn't disprove the rule. You look at that kid who's mum and dad are breaking up. Tell me if that is a happy face. Ask their teachers if their grades are going up or down. Watch them get into trouble to get more attention from their parents bla bla bla. Watch them cry at the wedding when the woman daddy is marrying isn't mummy. " - These are all examples from a hetrosexual family.... i fail to see your point.
Then you really need to stop getting hung up on the whole "gay" thing and pay more attention to the important part of the issue. Raising children to the best advantage you are able.
Sterilization at or before birth. If someone wants to have a child, take a test to see if you'll be a fit parent. This way we'll have less people(yay) without killing anyone(yay) and can argue about global sterilization instead of one woman's business.
They came from the sea and they came from the sky, Captain America is going to die!
i personally think they should at least have the baby and give it up for adoption, this way it doesn't have to die and the parents don't have to worry about it
It's unfortunate the we can't figure out how to take care of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of unwanted children who already spend thier lives growing up in orphanages; unwanted, unloved, and uncared for.
I spent one week in foster care as a child and I would not wish what I went through on any child. Until more care is given to our foster, and adoption system I just don't think that it is a viable alternative to abortion. I already see far to many children still living with there parents that aren't being given the oportunity to grow up and become functioning members or society.
This country is in a sad state as far as its youth are concerned, and abortion is just a pin prick in a much larger issue.
Also, there is a lot more attached to the 9-10 month of pregnancy that a lot of woman aren't able to overcome to bear children they can put in already overcrowded orphanages and undermonitored foster homes. Bills, stress, medical problems. It's a lot to ask of a woman who doesn't want the child to start with.
Comments
And notice that all those children of hetrosexual couples reached the top of their professions.
How many gay parented world leaders of the 20th century can you name?
How many of whatever role models you happen to deem acceptable had gay parenting?
Not so many I am thinking. This is going to be one big social experiment. I'm not keen to have any kids that I care about experimented on.
If it's not broke, don't fix it.
Sorry but the same logic applies. You would have to show me a 1,000 evil dictators from Kansas before Razors point would have any bearing on the subject.
I think the major point here, is that we don't have 2,000 to 4,000 years of data on same sex parenting to call up. That's why I consider it a social experiment. It's never been done before, we don't have any previous examples to examine. (Unlike with different sex parenting of which we have endless examples and which has been broadly successful for mankind across the board for millenia). I can't provide you evidence of failed upbrings from same sex couples, because there haven't been many recorded, not because there is any evidence to suggest they raise balanced children or not.
I also agree that sticking my nose into other peoples business. It is not something I advocate. None of my business is none of my business. Who cares about anyone in Kansas? I certainly don't.
That does not mean that I won't stick my nose into the business of children who I do care about and that when I do, I won't have an opinion.
He will likely come out of it gay.
That's not to say that all children don't take after their parents, only that most do.
He will also likely come out it without the major influence of a female role model.
These aren't things that I consider of strength to a person.
People look up to their parents.
For most boys, your father is your primary role model. Your hero. What he does and the way he does it is the correct way.
Some people rebel, most do not. Many people rebel and still end up taking after their father who probably was a rebel too.
In farming, when a sheep dies in childbirth it's lamb is abandoned. That same lamb when it becomes a mother, abandons it's lambs too. Those lambs if fostered go on to abandon their lambs too. And so on.
Children take on the traits of their parents. It's a natural law.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Almost. A child brought up by a single parent is more likely to become a single parent.
And yes, I'm not personally into single parenting either. I don't believe that is the most advantageous circumstance for raising children.
As I said, there are always rebels.
I expect a number of people brought up in a homosexual enviroment to turn out straight too.
What about people who shag sheep? Do you think that is a biological urge or brought about by social conditions?
Well clearly their mothers must have been sheep.
I can't claim any expertise in the area of bestiality, but I would suspect that in most cases the natural urge is to shag something and the sheep is convenient. For the odd case that might actually be attracted to the sheep: well, it's quite possible that it is biological - some brain imbalance or something, but I'm just guessing.
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
SAME-SEX PARENTING IS HARMFUL TO CHILDREN
Homosexuals … model a poor view of marriage to children. They are taught by example and belief that marital relationships are transitory and most sexual in nature. Sexual relationships are primarily for pleasure rather than procreation. And they are taught that monogamy in a marriage is not the norm [and] should be discouraged if one wants a good 'marital' relationship.
LINK
I'm against gay marriages. Why?! Because in order to mantain a healthy environment for children.(which they always seem to want to adopt) there has to be a healthy relationship. Now a child grows up, and sees two men/women dating eachother. That can confuse the child as to whether they should also be gay. It is not only harmful to the family environment, but also to society.
i'd have to agree with zell miller, keep in mind thats just 45million that has been aborted actually the number is much higher cause those babies would grow up and have more babies, that number could easily dbl. so in essence we have killed off areound 25% of our current population but also prevented up to 33% or more of population growth. You think about what could have been, and there is a whole world of things. I'm not one for speculating but who knows zell could be right, but this we do know Abortion is an atrocity it is mass genocide a war waged against babies from mothers who hate them who can't stand the responsibility of raising a child but want to continue having promiscuis sex serving their bellies, and will murder to continue in their sins.
KeeperofKeb
ummm
I am against abortion, but I think you are being a little extreme here.
ummm
I am against abortion, but I think you are being a little extreme here.
Whoah! Someone actually exists that Outofctrl considers "extreme"? Man, if he says that, you're way out there.
I consciously made a decision not to be gay pretty much from the first moment I understood what gay was. Long before I discovered what gay was I already understood that one day I would be married to a woman and have a family of my own. That I would have girlfriends and a wife etc. That this is how people behave and the way life works. (Admittedly I didn't realise it was going to be my sister...).The importance of family, and what a family looks like.
My role models never discussed this with me. They were simply my example.The role of a father in this family and the role of a mother, weren't taught to me, I learnt by observation.
I completly agree that some and indeed many success stories come from broken homes and unfortunate backgrounds, are you advocating breaking up your family to make your kids stronger? What nonsense.
It doesn't make kids stronger. The exception doesn't disprove the rule. You look at that kid who's mum and dad are breaking up. Tell me if that is a happy face. Ask their teachers if their grades are going up or down. Watch them get into trouble to get more attention from their parents bla bla bla. Watch them cry at the wedding when the woman daddy is marrying isn't mummy. We've all seen it. Just because we like the people it is happening to and are supportive of them in difficult times, doesn't mean we should advocate it or even except it as an agreable result.
I'm predjudice against gays. And I'm not the only one. Being gay isn't an advantage in life.
It is my responsability to provide the children I care about with the tools that best equip them to get what they want out of life. To manipulate the odds in their favour. Not to neglect them, or to be a negative role model.
I'm not gay. I don't want to be gay. I don't want any child I care about to grow up in the enviroment where gay is the default setting. Where being straight is not the norm.
If I truely believed there to be an advantage to be had by being gay, I would. But I don't.
If you're gay, good for you, I'm quite capable of appreciating you and enjoying your company. But I don't want to shag you, and I don't want to raise children with you. If you are a woman and you are not capable of forming a stable monogamous life long relationship, I don't want to raise children with you either. It's lambing season though so if those eyes are big enough I could still go for Ewe.
Well clearly their mothers must have been sheep.
I can't claim any expertise in the area of bestiality, but I would suspect that in most cases the natural urge is to shag something and the sheep is convenient. For the odd case that might actually be attracted to the sheep: well, it's quite possible that it is biological - some brain imbalance or something, but I'm just guessing.
Any theories on blow up dolls?
I'm going to switch the homosexuals with nearsighted people:
There is a child that has glasses and now all the children at school tease him and beat him up. You baff are prejudice at the child with glasses because being nearsighted isn't an advantage in life.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
That's right I am.
So if I see a short sighted woman, I find her less attractive than a 20/20 vision girl. That goes for all physical, mental and even tempramental attributes. I'm just trying to adjust the odds. Good breeding stock is a factor.
Why gays have a harder time than hetero's is irrelevant. They do.
What more do you need to know?
You either have the childs best intrest at heart, or you don't. I am far more intrested in fostering the best intrests any of the children I care about; than I am about supporting gay liberation.
In fact I don't see where the priority for gay rights comes into the raising of children at all. While it's not for me to judge, in my persoanl life I would consider that to be very misguided and in fact somewhat irresponsable. Kids rights before gay rights.
I forgot to mention in my initial post....
That 99.99999% of homosexuals are from "normal families". I only leave the 0.000001% to allow for the fact that I dont know about test tube baby statistics.
Also Baff is right to say that not having any super positive outcomes from same sex relationship reared children (somewhat) invalidates my point, (as I disagree that it totally invalidates it). However lets agree to revisit that in 3 or 4 generations time, when these people have had a chance to set some results.
The runs are on the board for the so called "normal" family unit. We need time to see whether, on average gay couples produce Hitlers or Martin luther Kings.
I agree with Baff 100% that its about the good of the children. Which is why it is all the more important to focus on that and that alone.
Even having an opinion about what 2 men do with thier own bums behind closed doors.... is somewhat arrogant at best and a little disturbing in terms of why you care, at worst.
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I'm from the fens.
Of course I will bring up my child believing that sleeping with other family members is socially acceptable. If not normal. Mum, Aunty, what's in a name? People round here don't trust if you don't share the same surname.
Do you think gay people will bring up their children to think sleeping with members of the same sex is socially acceptable?
I'm sorry but I just don't see how that is in the childs best intrests.
I understand that it is in gay peoples best intrests, but I don't see it as in the childrens.
For me children come first.
Raising a child not to be prejudice is one thing, raising a child to be prejudiced against by society is another quite another thing completely.
Then you really need to stop getting hung up on the whole "gay" thing and pay more attention to the important part of the issue. Raising children to the best advantage you are able.
They came from the sea and they came from the sky, Captain America is going to die!
It's unfortunate the we can't figure out how to take care of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of unwanted children who already spend thier lives growing up in orphanages; unwanted, unloved, and uncared for.
I spent one week in foster care as a child and I would not wish what I went through on any child. Until more care is given to our foster, and adoption system I just don't think that it is a viable alternative to abortion. I already see far to many children still living with there parents that aren't being given the oportunity to grow up and become functioning members or society.
This country is in a sad state as far as its youth are concerned, and abortion is just a pin prick in a much larger issue.
Also, there is a lot more attached to the 9-10 month of pregnancy that a lot of woman aren't able to overcome to bear children they can put in already overcrowded orphanages and undermonitored foster homes. Bills, stress, medical problems. It's a lot to ask of a woman who doesn't want the child to start with.