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Immersiveness and realism - it's not there

2

Comments

  • FariicFariic Member Posts: 1,546
    Originally posted by grinreaper

    Originally posted by Amathe


    The following criticism isn't unique to Vanguard. Most mmos are equally guilty. But it applies to Vanguard a bit more because even though it is a fantasy game, some effort was supposedly made to make it more "realistic."
    You have a grown man, in a set of plate armor, wielding a giant two handed sword, go out into a meadow and fight a frigging gopher or similar woodland creature. And IT'S A FAIR FIGHT. Heck, the warrior may even die. What the hell is immersive and realistic about that?
    That is just one of a million examples I could give where it is ludicrous to say that this game, or any of the others, is realistic.
    How may blows from an axe should it take to kill a spider?
    How exactly do you kill a giant with a sword when you can't even reach its shin? It bleeds to death from a toe laceration?
    I hear a lot about Vanguard's vaunted "immersiveness", "realism", and how "cartoony" it's competitors are, but I don't get it.
    It's still the same old, same old. Another example - every NPC and monster in the game, like every game before it, is BLIND AND DEAF. You can stand in plain view and obvious earshot of a a monster or NPC, kill his friend, make all the noise you want in the process, including explosions, and unless you are within its "aggro range" they just watch, oblivious. But take one step closer and whoops, now they care. Wtf?
    When is a real 3rd generation game coming? Where the monsters have a danger level appropriate to what they are, instead of all these Monty Python rabbit mobs? When will they be able to see? When will they be able to hear? When will they be able to smell? When will they behave as anything more than the cigar store indian, pixilated loot pinatas they are in every game so far?



    first of all, spoken like a true city boy...I have seen a gopher attack a man in full armor.

    secondly, VG is WAY less guilty of this than, say EQ2 used to be...as a DE, the first things you kill are feeble DE's

    Thirdly, at least VG takes facing into account...I can move behind a MOB safley, but if he turns around, he will aggro. DAOC did a good job with this with their 'bring a friend' code and scouts, but I do agree alot more needs to be done.

    Full armor huh?

    That's some funny stuff.  Laughed my butt off. 

  • swede2swede2 Member Posts: 975
    Must have a sad little life to keep running to the vanguard forums trying  to bash the game when you dont even play it,   this is to the OP and dosen't apply to all the other normal people in this tread
  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    In regards to the OP it's a game, get over it. I get realism 20 hours a day, in real life if I looked out my back door and saw 2 wargs and a goblin hoofing around my back yard I would soil myself and call 911.

    I miss DAoC

  • PoldanoPoldano Member Posts: 244
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    In regards to the OP it's a game, get over it. I get realism 20 hours a day, in real life if I looked out my back door and saw 2 wargs and a goblin hoofing around my back yard I would soil myself and call 911.
    Don't have kids or dogs, eh?
  • FariicFariic Member Posts: 1,546

    I'm still laughing at the city boy comment. 

    Jackdog making a good point on a VG thread.  OK, that's it for. 

  • FariicFariic Member Posts: 1,546
    Originally posted by Poldano

    Originally posted by Jackdog

    In regards to the OP it's a game, get over it. I get realism 20 hours a day, in real life if I looked out my back door and saw 2 wargs and a goblin hoofing around my back yard I would soil myself and call 911.
    Don't have kids or dogs, eh?

    I gotta ask.  Wich are the Wargs and wich are the Goblins?
  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by Fariic


    I'm still laughing at the city boy comment. 
    Jackdog making a good point on a VG thread.  OK, that's it for. 
    Farlic onr of these days you will learn that I just call em as I see em

    I miss DAoC

  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    Realism will always take a backseat to gameplay. Sure, in "reality", you'd kill that lil badger in one thrust, so long as you didn't just graze it. However it works both ways. It's not as if that orc wailing away on you wouldn't kick your ass in with two swings in "reality". Unless you're looking too play the "Who can one shot who first" game, reality has no place in a game with Xraistlynx the level 6 magic user, and indestructible badgers. Or snakes and mushrooms.

    Mob AI just isn't there yet mostly due to technological restrictions. And frankly, I don't think people would be quite as thrilled about having mob AI that emulated a human opponent. Imagine you're whacking away at that poor frazzled badger, and an orc and three of his buddies, all at least 10 levels higher than you, jump out of some nearby shrubbery, and whack your ass, take all your cash, and /spit on you before leaving.

    I can hear the screaming all the way from here.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630

    /sigh

    Yes, it's a game.

    Yes, it's a fantasy game and only so much realism is possible or even desirable.

    Yes, we start out fighting smaller things and progress. That's part of the journey.

    Yes, other games have the same or similar things, and they have become customary, if not expected, in this genre.

    Now that we have cleared the obvious out of the way, can we put aside our Vanboi/hater factions for a moment and dig a little deeper?

    It's time for these games to step forward. The technology is there. I want to see less predictability, less script, and more interesting behavior in the enemies we fight. It can be done and it's frankly a convenience at best, and laziness and sloppy design at worst, that it hasn't been done.

    Since you guys like to trash WoW, let me pick on it for a moment. So many of the boss fights in WoW are scripted. "We are now entering phase 3, sub A, sub sub ii of this encounter .... That is so lame.

    In EQ, the fights were much less predicable, and much less controlable. The same guild could fight the same boss using the same tactics and the fight turn out different. That is because the EQ AI, while in many ways more sophisticated than anything before or since, was also broke lol and that introduced a random element to the game which actually made it more challenging.

    There is no reason at all that modern computers cannot be programmed to make the behavior of the mobs we fight less static and routine. And no, giving us more buttons to mash isn't the same thing. 

    Why can't a wolf, to use a simple example, have a variety of reactions to a player? Sometimes it may run away in fear. Sometimes it may stand off a bit, watch you, and then follow you if you leave and attack from behind. Sometimes it may howl and call on other wolves to join the fight. Goddamn I could program that. Why can't the experts? Why does every wolf have to do the same freakin thing every time?

    If all of the mobs had a choice of behaviors that they may employ in each encounter, the game would be so much more interesting and feel a lot more like a world and less like a shooting gallery of numbered yellow ducks.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Cor4xCor4x Member Posts: 241
    Originally posted by Amathe


    Why can't a wolf, to use a simple example, have a variety of reactions to a player? Sometimes it may run away in fear. Sometimes it may stand off a bit, watch you, and then follow you if you leave and attack from behind. Sometimes it may howl and call on other wolves to join the fight. Goddamn I could program that. Why can't the experts? Why does every wolf have to do the same freakin thing every time?
    If all of the mobs had a choice of behaviors that they may employ in each encounter, the game would be so much more interesting and feel a lot more like a world and less like a shooting gallery of numbered yellow ducks.


    I can think of 2 reasons off the top of my head.



    One, from the programming aspect... yes, programming AI for a few or 20 mobs wouldn't be that big of a deal. However, having thousands of mobs of which tens, if not hundreds of thousands of mobs are evaluating their environment every heartbeat would be pretty damned hard.



    Two: The AI, programmed well, would slaughter the players. Easily. Computers have instant reaction times and perfect execution. They don't get bored or sad or angry or hungry or have to have a bio break.



    If that wolf you spoke about followed the player and waited for the player to get involved with another mob or get low on health; how angry do you think the players would be when the wolves jumped on them?



    Most intelligent critters would run away when they saw a party and go get their friends. They wouldn't stand there and probably wouldn't follow some little shrimp that shot them with an arrow.



    Spell casters would do the same thing to players that is always being done to them. Taunt would be useless.



    Picture this: There is a spawn of 4 orks around a rock.



    The intrepid party: 1 warrior, 1 cleric, 1 thief, and 1 mage approach the rock at a distance.



    First instance: The Orcs see them first and hide. The players look around for a second and suddenly the orcs sprint from cover and hack the mage to death before anyone can do anything. Then they hack away on the cleric until the fighter begins to damage one.



    The hacked-on orc backs up and kites the warrior around while the other 2 finish off the cleric and 1 ties up the thief.



    Once the cleric is dead, the thief is next then the warrior. The orcs are happy.



    Scenario 2: The party, having gotten rezed, is more careful now. They approach the rock once again with the thief in the lead.



    The orcs are happily munching some bbq elf they bought with the mage's pocket change. They've had a little too much to drink so the players get the drop on them.



    The mage blasts them and they all instantly spring into action... They run away until the party stops chasing them, then they begin harassing bow fire from the distance; harrying the party.



    Or: Plan B: They all rush the mage and hack him to death again, ignoring everyone else until one of them begins to take substantial damage, then an orc begins to kite that one around, attacking when the fighter stops chasing them, hacking on the cleric trying for an interrupt, or beating on the thief.



    Eventually the scenario will play out pretty much the same: The mage loses. If the cleric spent too much mana trying to heal, the cleric's next, followed or preceded by the thief. Then the orcs will deal with the hapless tank once again.



    And these don't cast.



    Imagine some high-end content. The players would be screwed.



    A necromancer in the same instance: Ahh. A party. Pet on the mage. Root the fighter. Darkness and fear the cleric to keep from casting. Fear the thief. Mage dies. Send pet on cleric. Cleric dies. Send pet on thief, re-root fighter. Thief dies. Fear kite the fighter to death. Necromancer never gets touched.



    Imagine how angry a fighter would be when a druid mob root-dots the poor bastard to death. Just stand there and watch his health drip away...



    Or how furious a party would be when a bard mob begins to harass the hell out of them and kite them all around. If they leave him alone, he'll kill them in the same order: mage first, cleric 2nd, thief third, then the fighter. If they try to catch him, he'll likely still kill the mage and then run if he gets into trouble.



    Fact is: the AI has to be dumbed down even from a practical standpoint (not heeding the technical reasons). Properly programmed AI would slaughter the players easily and in vast numbers with a simple upgrade.



    Even having the mobs run when they should would be disastrous. Those stupid door guards at every zone, castle, and keep in mmorpg-land would immediately run inside and get their buddies. Then the entire fort, boss and all, would sally forth to steamroll the poor party into red paste.



    If you wanted to do that on the cheap, just let players drive the mobs. *evil grin* That'd make sure the players died in huge bunches.



    image

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495

    I don't want real life realizm, i would like to see more "movie" realizm other then that i think VSoH is more immersive then some see.

    I wonder do some of you people also complain on movies sites telling that things in movie's are not real ??? or maybe some people  think things in movies are alway's real? No bash at the OP cause he made us think about it, and we did  Subject was good, but lets just say  we have to be realistic

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by Riho06


    Another pointless post being thrown on the Vanguard forums, using your own words 'this isn't just about Vanguard' should've told you that this crap belong in the General MMOs section and not the VG one. Every other example is just an excuse to get a reaction, OMG the trees move in the wind but where are the squirrels that are mad because the trees are moving?
    Take this crap somewhere else, perhaps you can start in with the 'Build your own MMO' posts that are rampant in the 'General Population' area.
    This crap actually belongs here, since he is addressing the VG advertising of being immersive and realistic. Its not. In response to the OP, it looks like Age of Conan should have the AI you are looking for. Apparently you have to dispatch of sentries silently otherwise they will rally the whole camp against you. Fun stuff like that.
  • ThonyThony Member Posts: 215
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Originally posted by Riho06


    Another pointless post being thrown on the Vanguard forums, using your own words 'this isn't just about Vanguard' should've told you that this crap belong in the General MMOs section and not the VG one. Every other example is just an excuse to get a reaction, OMG the trees move in the wind but where are the squirrels that are mad because the trees are moving?
    Take this crap somewhere else, perhaps you can start in with the 'Build your own MMO' posts that are rampant in the 'General Population' area.
    This crap actually belongs here, since he is addressing the VG advertising of being immersive and realistic. Its not. In response to the OP, it looks like Age of Conan should have the AI you are looking for. Apparently you have to dispatch of sentries silently otherwise they will rally the whole camp against you. Fun stuff like that.



    It will become amuzing again to read after its release of  AoC "Ohh noeeeeesss i can not run this game ouch ouch it's to system demanding, oh noeeesss i get killed every time because the AI is so "real" What a shitty game i really was hoping it would be the bomb.

    Now seriously i really look forward to the slash and hack game but to already think that it will be the next big thing in MMORPG land we can only wait and see if it delivers. Yes when i first started beta Vanguard i was not impressed, the second time i went back in beta i was impressed and thought the game will blow away every other mmorpg at this moment, but in time i got to know some of it audience and seeing it is displeasing allot of players i do not think it the next big thing anymore, this i actualy already thought at release of Vanguard, but on the other side it is delivering a true MMORPG experiance unlike some MMO's that just are fun games.

  • Inf666Inf666 Member UncommonPosts: 513
    I agree mostly with Cor4X.



    1: A good AI for all mobs would need an insane amount of processing power. Todays MMORPG already needs a huge cluster to hold up the virtual world without complicated AIs. As an example: Build a huge army in supreme commander and look at your computer dieing under the strain. MMORPGs would have to cope with 1000x this strain.



    2: clever NPC's would act like good PvPers and that would be like letting loose a hurricane onto a camp of tents. You really would need a lot of PLAYER SKILL to win against well played NPCs. As we all know a lot of players already think that todays mob is hard (ask your typical Vanboy). I for one would love the scenarios Cor4X described. Give the player precise control over his character (manual movement fps style, aiming required, you manage blocking,  "headshot" = 3x damage). You would need a clever strategy (luring NPCs into a trap/catching them in a a bad spot) and good tactics (micromanagement and good ideas). Of course your normal PvEer would die horribly ten times in a row without even trying to change his tactics and leave the game ("I am a good player and this game is way too hard" ). Games are being dumbed down for a good reason. The companies know where the money is.



    3: Realism means: instant death on hit, clever NPCs, free pvp, full player looting, dieing = you get to use a clone which you created earlier (less xp and skills), scamming allowed, killing quest npcs allowed, ganking allowed, NPCs only drop specific loot (animals = fur, claws; humans = swords, armor), magic stuff is rare and has to be created, cartels in the virtual economy, no swimming in armor, no dodging in heavy armor, no blocking a dual dagger thief in close range with a two hander. In the end most players would get ganked and killed again and again by either good PvPers or even clever NPCs. No fun -> player leaves.





    A realistic game with clever NPCs and open pvp would be a niche game.

    ---
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627


    Originally posted by Amathe
    The following criticism isn't unique to Vanguard. Most mmos are equally guilty. But it applies to Vanguard a bit more because even though it is a fantasy game, some effort was supposedly made to make it more "realistic."
    You have a grown man, in a set of plate armor, wielding a giant two handed sword, go out into a meadow and fight a frigging gopher or similar woodland creature. And IT'S A FAIR FIGHT. Heck, the warrior may even die. What the hell is immersive and realistic about that?
    That is just one of a million examples I could give where it is ludicrous to say that this game, or any of the others, is realistic.
    How may blows from an axe should it take to kill a spider?
    How exactly do you kill a giant with a sword when you can't even reach its shin? It bleeds to death from a toe laceration?
    I hear a lot about Vanguard's vaunted "immersiveness", "realism", and how "cartoony" it's competitors are, but I don't get it.
    It's still the same old, same old. Another example - every NPC and monster in the game, like every game before it, is BLIND AND DEAF. You can stand in plain view and obvious earshot of a a monster or NPC, kill his friend, make all the noise you want in the process, including explosions, and unless you are within its "aggro range" they just watch, oblivious. But take one step closer and whoops, now they care. Wtf?
    When is a real 3rd generation game coming? Where the monsters have a danger level appropriate to what they are, instead of all these Monty Python rabbit mobs? When will they be able to see? When will they be able to hear? When will they be able to smell? When will they behave as anything more than the cigar store indian, pixilated loot pinatas they are in every game so far?


    I do not know if you ever had the pleasure of playing SWG, but one of its unique features where the MOBS in the game had their own factions. Would definately assit one another if one of their kind where attacked and they saw you doing it, and if there was none of their kind close enough to witness it some MOBS would run and find one and bring back friends to whoop your arse. Banthas were just one of the MOBS that would definately stomp the snot out of your character if you messed with just one of them and the others were close enough to realize what you were doing. It's funny though...because the MOBs had their own factions, you could use that to your advantage in some cases in game. You could lure the Banthas to a Scyk or a nest of scyk's and they'd help you kill teh banthas. That is what I refered to as a poor girls version of Creature Handler. Then there was the off chance you'd catch MOB's attacking one another - which was neat. That is one thing I really enjoyed about SWG was the MOBS had decent AI.

    Now as for realism in these games. I'd like some level of realism, but to much and it is no longer fantasy or like in the case of SWG it would no longer be sci-fi.

  • LifePositiveLifePositive Member UncommonPosts: 130

    If you all want to play a realistic MMO so much, look no further.



    Aside from that, realism in a game is never going to happen in the purest sense of the word. The game will always be a game, and should always be a game. Frankly most of the things suggested by the OP would actually make Vanguard (and most other MMOs) worse then it already is.



    For example, if all the guard / quest giver NPCs did all their work themselves, newbies would quite literally have NOTHING to do in their first moments of the game, "Sorry, but everything is under control here. We've got these Kobolds sorted out well enough... Stupid blighters can't take a nasty scare without tipping over. Maybe you could go talk to Ol' Miss Turner, I hear she can't pick her own apples for herself these days. Bad back and whatnot."



    Better yet, perhaps you would like every single giant spider / scorpion / diseased rat / etc to give permanent nerve damage, anaphylactic shock, or rabies every single time one of them poisons you. Maybe you'd like every goblin with a club to crack your shin, bring you to your knees, and brain your stupid ass because he happens to be 3 levels higher then you.



    Maybe you would like every single encounter involve one guy spotting you, running for help, and raising an alarm, just so you can have an entire Instance full of Elite Defias theives gutting your sorry ass in one go. Maybe you would like dying in any circumstance imaginable except maybe a fucking 40 man raid.



    It just wouldn't work; it wouldn't be fun, it wouldn't be immersive, it wouldn't be entertaining, and it sure as hell wouldn't be worth playing.



    I do have some gripes about the way MMOs are designed these days, though.



    My biggest one actually involves the very beginning of the game, before you even get into the world. Every character creation system I've seen in an MMO is lame (with the possible exception to City of Heroes, which was really cool but still not fantastic) simply because they all pretty much assume you were born yesterday. You start playing as a Human Warrior, your avatar looks to be in his early 30s, and yet you have no history, no skills, no talents, no uniqueness... Nothing to either distinguish your character from anyone else except by the most superficial of differences, and nothing to show that your character didn't just materialize out of thin air.



    I'm not saying that you should start the game knowing everything you need to know, or that you shouldn't need to level / gain skills / do quests to advance yourself. All I'm saying is that the Character Creator should be given more significance... You should be able to pick your race, your subrace/nationality, your social status, your education, and your basic skill set.



    Your race would determine the difference between a Human and a Elf and include basic racial traits, your subrace/nationality would determine the difference between a (to use examples from Earth) Englishman and a Arab or Japanese and include further traits, your social status would determine the difference between someone from a lower class (better trade skills, roguish skills), various groups of middle class (military, priestly, artisan), and upper class (scholastic/magical, diplomatic), all of which would set you in a basic direction towards a basic archetype choice. Then, once you have your background put together, you can choose your actual, specific skills or class that you start as... By then, you would have a fully developed character that actually fits into the background lore and has a place in the world. Not to mention all of these choices would be reflected in your avatar customization.



    But anyway, that's one thing I'd like to see that I think would make starting one of these games much more enjoyable.

    “How do you kill that which has no life

  • xAlrythxxAlrythx Member Posts: 585

    You want realism?

    Ok then....

    When someone cuts you with a sword, you WILL get seriously injured, you can die from the blood, you have to have someone heal you fast before you die. If you do die I am afraid you are dead forever unless your body is intact enough to be rezzed. Spell casters will kill everyone with fire 50 feet away. Overpowered? Nah it's realism! Unless you have some resistance then maybe just your legs will burn off. Like the hunter class? Well now you have to train your pet just like in real life, don't feed him, he dies, don't pet him, he runs away. Also you have to toilet train him when you build your house which btw you have to build by hand meaning if you build it wrong it will proberly collapse on you and kill you (and no your healer cannot rez a mashed up corpse). If a storm comes your house could be destroyed. When you build your ship, you better hope it don't receive a hole in it from a sneaky enemy, or you will drown, never to return. Think the wolves in your local starting noob area are easy pickings? WRONG! 3 of them suckers can just jump you and eat your face off! Basically unless you are nobel, rich or all of the above....you won't make it past level 1 unless you are a mage GG.

    Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
    Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
    Looking Forward To: SW:TOR

  • jimmyman99jimmyman99 Member UncommonPosts: 3,221
    Originally posted by eccoton

    Originally posted by PnHobbit

    It may look like a gopher, it may sound like a gopher, but it ain't a gopher.



    It's called fantasy and sometimes it isn't real.
    Well of course it is fantasy and the op was not talking about that, he was talking about mob reactions in relation to immersion. I like this topic it did not have to be tied to Vanguard or any game really. I also am waiting for better ai. I do think it is coming as developers realize immersion can be the holy grail in mmos that keep the subscriptions renewing for years. One of the reason I left WoW after 6 months, a game iI enjoyed a great deal, was lack of immersion. I felt I was just playing a game. One reason I keep playing EQ2 after 2 years is it does a better job as immersion. Sometime I feel in the game world of EQ2 instead of just controlling it. Well if you go all the way in a realism then anything small should not be able to kill anything large (unless with poison). Which means that the world should be populated by giant everything, giant wasps, giant rats, giant giants...etc etc.



    This is not a real world simulation, this is fantasy. In fantasy, if you get hit, you dont dont die right away, you lose health and can be healed, resurrected, cast spell, have pet phoenixes and do a lot of other stuff.



    PS2: talk about immersion in EQ2, where in real life did u walk through the door and then had to wait for 10-20 seconds for that room to "load" itself??

    I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
    image
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
    imageimage

  • swede2swede2 Member Posts: 975
    Originally posted by Harafnir

    [Mod Edit]
    The pot calling the kettle black or is it it takes one to know one. I think they both apply
  • kanezfankanezfan Member UncommonPosts: 482

    All you guys telling the OP to stuff it are hypocrites. I remember constantly hearing about how realistic and immersive this game is before it came out for months and months. Now it's just the same old northshire abbey crap and you defend it like the good fanbois that you are. Grow a set will you? You're all an embarrassment to manhood. Eh, never mind, just keep bending over for SOE, your NGE is coming soon.

  • AreelAreel Member Posts: 285

    "Immersion" and "realism" are not necessarily synonymous concepts.  Immersive merely means that the game draws you in and makes you want to keep playing.  Factors for immersion can vary, from RP values to a friendly community to a believeable world.

    Realism is just that, things that are realistic.  However, that term can be used to describe individual parts of the gameworld, not just the entire gameworld altogether.  You could say that Vanguard's graphics are fairly realistic.  To be honest, realism in games usually sucks.  You only need some basic concepts that people can identify with, then build a FUN game around.  Realism is rarely FUN.

    Seriously.
    It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.

  • ThonyThony Member Posts: 215
    Originally posted by kanezfan


    All you guys telling the OP to stuff it are hypocrites. I remember constantly hearing about how realistic and immersive this game is before it came out for months and months. Now it's just the same old northshire abbey crap and you defend it like the good fanbois that you are. Grow a set will you? You're all an embarrassment to manhood. Eh, never mind, just keep bending over for SOE, your NGE is coming soon.



    You know what is embarrasing people complaining about a product only costing about 50 $ and oh yeah sub-fee monthly. If people consider it to be much money shouldn't they need to start taking responsebiltiy upon THEIR OWN ACTION!!, hey don't get me wrong everyone has the right to complain, but some people here it seems they have put their life-savings in this game cause in how they react. And then to read the teen-ager comment when you said "eh,never mind.......and you are telling some other people to grow up

    ps i thought the OP made a good Topic but i didn't agree in the way he feels realism should added to a game.

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159
    Originally posted by anarchyart


    When was the last time you tried to fight a badger in real life? When you start out in an MMORPG you are supposed to be new in the world. I liken that to being a child. How do you think a 10 year old kid would fare against a full grown Badger even if he did have plate armor and a 2 hander? Sorry, I'm smiling now with the mental picture of a 10 year old kid in a full suit of armor trying to beat down a badger with a 2 handed sword. Anyways, the kid would probably get killed. At the very least an appendage chewed off.
    Is there any indication that we're starting out as 10-year-olds?  Any at all?  I mean, that'd be an interesting twist, but I don't see it.  I guess that explains your positive nature.  You adjust your view to fit the game.  Some would call that healthy, others might call it oblivious.  Me, I just wonder what kind of sick world would send thier little kids out to fight man-eating gophers.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,861
    Originally posted by anarchyart
    When was the last time you tried to fight a badger in real life? When you start out in an MMORPG you are supposed to be new in the world. I liken that to being a child. How do you think a 10 year old kid would fare against a full grown Badger even if he did have plate armor and a 2 hander? Sorry, I'm smiling now with the mental picture of a 10 year old kid in a full suit of armor trying to beat down a badger with a 2 handed sword. Anyways, the kid would probably get killed. At the very least an appendage chewed off.

     

    I feel so silly for replying to this but...

    It's funny you should mention fighting badgers because I actually have fought badgers in real life.  Now a badger wouldn't normally attack a person but growing up on the farm I walked around with the dogs a lot.  There were several times when they got into fights with coyotes, coons, and yes...the dreaded badger.

    Of course I rarely had a gun with me when this happened.  So here are my farm-boy bragging rights:

    I've killed a coyote with a rock.  Not thrown, I held it and hit the mangy varmit in the head while my dogs had it distracted.

    I've also killed coyotes with wooden clubs.  Whatever was handy.

    Coons, well the dogs never needed help with those but I've clubbed some anyway.  And a few times I felt sorry for them and saved them from the dogs.

    Ah, and the dreaded badger.  Believe this if you dare but I once killed a badger with nothing more than my boots.  There were no clubs or rocks handy (out in the middle of a milo field).  But my dogs wouldn't leave it so I kicked it repeately untill it died.

    On a few other occasions I clubbed badgers with whatever was handy.

    Oh, and I don't remember my exact age during all of these incidents but these thing happened all through my childhood and teen years.  Oh, and I never did have a suit of armor.

    God, I feel so silly for mentioning this stuff...but it's true.



  • Deathstrike2Deathstrike2 Member UncommonPosts: 1,777
    This is why City of Heroes is very appealing at the beginning.  You aren't fighting rats and badgers.  You're fighting thugs with baseball bats and sledge hammers.  You actually feel somewhat powerful from the beginning because you can take on a small gang of them.  I think CoH got it right here.  Fighting a rat is lame at best.  Having  a rat beat you in a fight is just embarassing. 
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