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  • Clever_GloveClever_Glove Member Posts: 996

    Very good point.
    Alot of people get the impression a Beta is the final Product. This is of course not true an in this case a fine example of many reasons why there is a Beta to begin with. I would not start writing off WoW because of this "test".



    This is why I was hoping to keep said game nameless, since it's not implemented in a game on the market yet.

    Wow has a long road between now and the market.

    For those that support the idea, it's true the game doesn't force you to log out, but it does impede your progress to the point you might as well.

    Let's look at from a average player prospective. You log in you play for a hour, you get 10% a level.  After a hour (or whatever time elapse) you only get 7% a level a hour, then only 5% then 3, then 1.

    What point are you going to stop playing for night? Even though the game doesn't force you out, you get used to the fast and steady exp of hour 1, after that it begins to get frustrating. Do you want to pay to be frustrated.

    IF Blizzard what's to make cap the time it takes to get new skills why not take the EvE approach and skills take Real life time to learn? (both on and off line). This is a mucky hybrid solution.

    WoW isn't the only game on the market, but they will be the only game that tries to limit your game time.

    -=-=-=-=-
    "We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..."
    John Blakely Senior lead for EQ2. Link

    Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.

    -=-=-=-=-
    Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle


    Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.

  • DaryoonDaryoon Member Posts: 44

    My favorite part is the people in BETA bitching that they don't like the feature and stating "they will never play again until it is removed". That is some funny stuff. BETA BETA BETA BETA BETA. Beta is the time to try new things. And hey, if you are in beta and it really bothers you, turn over that account to someone that wouldn't mind. ::::18::::::18::

    Spooooon!!!!

    Spooooon!!!!

  • Clever_GloveClever_Glove Member Posts: 996
    In spite of the whole linking this to WoW part. I think it's interesting to debate the feaure. It doesn't need to part of a game to do that.

    -=-=-=-=-
    "We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..."
    John Blakely Senior lead for EQ2. Link

    Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.

    -=-=-=-=-
    Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle


    Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.

  • MistiMisti Member Posts: 724

    I love the rest Idea.  Seems like a great way to bring people together, make villages and inns more useful and opportunities for roleplayers as well.

    I know this will probably be flamed but imo a game that puts restrictions and rules around their world and players tends to be far superior to one that lets you do whatever you want.  Lots will argue the point but people in general are more content and satisfied in an environment with rules then they are in a world of chaos.

  • AdrealAdreal Member Posts: 2,087
    I think the idea's alright. In gemstone III you had to rest and "think on" what you learned in combat to drain the experience from your mind into your level.You'd be fighting and then your mind bar would go from nothing to light brown to brown to red and dark red and then you couldn't gain any more experience. Usually you would go back to town square which was a "node" and resting there a while would help you regain experience faster into your level. A lot of people gathered here and would chat and sometimes they would just do other things in RL while they were waiting for their exp meter to drain. This was alright with me. It usually took 20 mins to drain it completely. I would say (in your case) the resting is alright but I wouldn't want to rest for hours. I'd rather rest for maybe 10-25 mins and then be ready for some battle. I also thought of an idea of making drinks and certain foods help gain you experience when consumed. Maybe you would fight and earn experience but it wouldn't drain into your level until you went to the tavern and bought a few drinks or meals or something. This, along with other things, would help others to socialize perhaps and act as a money drain.

    "Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
    "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
    AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain

  • SpetnautSpetnaut Member UncommonPosts: 61

    Take from World of Warcraft patch notes:

    Rest State, Inns & Hearthstones:
    To broaden and balance some of the gameplay elements, we've incorporated a few new features. One of them is the Rest State modifier, which gives players a time-limited bonus to combat (PvE) experience. This frees up time for exploring other aspects of the game without penalty, such as tradeskilling and social activities, and helps players avoid level-grinding. We've also added Inns, which serve as a good place to hang up your sword or staff for the night because they confer special bonuses. Inns also act as home locations, which our third new feature, Hearthstones, take advantage of. Hearthstones provide a speedy way to travel back to an Inn when you need to take care of business in town or when you're ready to check in and call it a night. The basics of these new features are covered below.


    Rest State

    The Rest state modifier only affects experience earned from killing monsters. It does not affect experience earned from quest rewards or other experience rewards in the game (such as future PvP experience rewards).

    As players kill monsters and gain experience points, they become increasingly tired. Their rest level reflects this tiredness in five tiers: well rested, rested, normal, fatigued and exhausted.

    Well-rested players receive bonus experience points for killing monsters. Rested players receive a smaller bonus. At the normal rest level, players receive no bonus experience points for killing monsters. Fatigued players receive half of the normal experience points from their kills, and when exhausted they will receive a quarter of normal experience from a kill.

    To become well rested and start earning bonus experience from killing monsters again, players must either log out or rest online at an Inn (see below) for several hours.

    Thanks to the comforts of a warm bed and a hearty meal, players who rest or log out at an Inn can regain energy up to the maximum level: well rested (it takes 8 hours to go from exhausted back to well rested). Players who log out anywhere else in the world will only regain energy up to the normal level.

    Note that while your character is resting at an Inn, you can play other characters on your account. The rest state is per character only.

     

    here is the game this is happening to, and this sux :(

    The Black Hand

    ---------------------------------------------
    The BlackHand
    "We Always Prevail"

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    The forcing you to log out in an Inn thing really sucks... But, if they have these Hearthstones and you can just transport back there, then what is the point in having that bonus at all???


  • darkmandarkman Member UncommonPosts: 767

    I just don't like the idea at all, yes i can understand testing it, but if they ever implemented this in a commericialized game, think of it, like it was stated before, I just paid $50.00, and am paying $12.95 or whatever a month, I'm paying all that money so I can just sit on my but starting at the other player in front of me? I want to pay to PLAY. Also, I have a great party working, then alll of the sudden "sorry guys, have to go to the inn, I'm fatigued". Wow that just SUCKS.

    It really would not work at all, it would just flat out get people mad. I for one wish not to see this happen in an MMORPG.

    New PR rep for the North American Version of RYL
    www.planetwidegames.com

  • ObiyerObiyer Member UncommonPosts: 511

    This in general in any mmorpg is a bad idea. Why will someone pay not to play?

    Why not make resting a bonus? Like per hour you rest and spend time in an Inn you get a set percentage of experience increase. Or make the health regen higher. I like this idea because it forces people to come to the Inn and socialize. But since WoW players probably will not RP an individual on a non-rp (if they choose to designate srevers) will have to sit through a few hours of : "I R TEH |_33|X!" Its creative but in a negative way.

    As stated before: why pay not to play? If your main goal is leveling and it is what you like doing, it deters people. Well, it doesn't matter in the end whatever company chooses to incorporate this - it's their money.

    I agree with most; it's a good idea but implemented in a bad way. However personally if I ever saw anything like this in a MMORPG, or RPG in general - well I'm lying because I probably will not have bought the product in the first place. They need to improve the system or else I'll be the guy screaming in leet. I'm in favor of the change because it makes it easier for me on which new MMORPG I am going to purchase if it's kept through retail. I bet the devs of EQ2 are tickled to death right now. Even if they do not implement it, there is nothing keeping them from putting it in the game when the game goes gold. Just the fact they thought of it scares me.

    A Solution

    Reward the people who fight through the bad experience gains with bonuses after they have rested. Lets say an individual can go past being fatigued. Since the developers wanted to make the game more realistic it makes sense. The harder your push when the going gets tough the more it matters in the end. If an individual decides to go log off at 50% experience gain he will recieve a bonus. Lets say his fatigue level reached 50% experience, and he will have to rest 12 hours instead of the regular eight to go back to "well rested". However, the character needs to recieve a bonus in the resting phase because the character / avatar worked "harder" in worse conditions. Maybe lower level cap for the next few levels or even permanent stats. Maybe this approach will satisfy both casual and hardcore gamers.

    ----
    BTW:

    When they stated it was to make the game realistic is 90 - 95% bs. They are too tired to gain experience but aren't to tired to start making things or talking. Killing rats and goblins isnt really a mentally tiring endevour. Even if this is not included in the retail its a reminder of what the devs are capable of doing, and how with a toss of the wind they can ruin your investment of time. Another thing which is present is they are suggesting people to log out and stop using their bandwidth. Again very unrealistic, your character doesn't even exist within the game world within the time slot. Furthermore Eno even stated they are too lazy to balance mobs and decided to put a capping system instead. LOL!

  • GalootGaloot Member Posts: 177



    Originally posted by Viridia

    This quote that Aluaden got from the WoW message boards worries me

     


    The fact that you have to spend 8 hrs CONSECUTIVELY to work off your fatigue is the worst of all. If you rest for 7.5 hrs and then leave the inn, you are reset and you get ZERO benefit from the 7.5 hrs you did spend in the Inn. I don't see how this is fair, and mind you, a lot of people new to MMORPGs are not going to get this sort of mechanism.


    Is this true?   If it is it has to be the most exceptionally stupid idea ever.    People say you can do quests and do trade skills if you are too tired to fight, but this quote seems to contradict that.

     



    I don't know if it is or not. But yes it would be a mistake.

    The thing that I really hated about SWG was that it seemed that they made the game more complicated then they needed to. It is enough to try and get healed. Then they put in the mind wounds which seems to have been put in the game simply to justify having entertainers. Having to go sit in a canteen for however long was a real pain and just made me resent the game. It was just a waste of time. Time I would much rather spend doing something worthwhile.

  • waveslayerwaveslayer Member UncommonPosts: 609

    I think its a great idea.

    This brings to mind...DAoC does something in the same line, after you have killed a certain set of spawns for a bit the exp bonus gets smaller and eventaully goes away, funny thing most hardcore gamers still keep on killn same spawn for hours when they could move and get better exp, but they would rather stay where its safe and easy even if its half the exp....

    A rest period wont stop an addict and if you play 7 or more hours a day your definatly something akin to one.

    Godz of War I call Thee

    Godz of War I call Thee

  • AzzazzimonAzzazzimon Member UncommonPosts: 211

    I hate the whole idea, forcing people to log or do something they don't want to is never a good idea.

     

    If they want people to sit at inns for 8 hours (yes you can't even leave the inn) or want people to do something else than killing mobs then they should make that more interesting so people want to do it, not force people to do it.

    If they want to make it easier for the casual player that have very little time then add a bonus for first 1-2 hours you are playing, but don't penalize those that are most active and playing most.

    This system will affect many casual players too, even if you only play 2-3 hours normally, in the weekend you maybe want to catch up or play with friends abit longer, but with this system you will get penalized for it..

     

    Maybe the biggest problem with this system is that you can't always play with friends, if I'm at work all day, come home and want to team with my friends...and they already spent too much time killing mobs today so they 'can't' play more, in what they is that good?

    After awhile the 200% bonus will be the regular xp you count with so the diffrence will be 1/8 when you are exasted, not 1/4, noone will kill mobs for xp if they only get half or 1/8 xp per kill from what they get the first few hours, not even if it is to play with friends.

     

    I don't see any good with this system for the normal player or the power gamer, let people choose what they want to do, don't force anyone to do what you want them to do.

    Azzazzimon

    -------------------------
    Azzazzimon

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    Peoples seem to confuse:

     

    Forced and limited.

     

    A limited amount of turns can be nice, it all depend on how they do it.  Forced mean you need to do something, you dont need to do anything with a limit, you cant do any more for today.

     

    Someone a tadbit fanatic(like me) would dream over the game and the next turns, as long as you can *think* to improve what you do sure...if you keep it real time, I disagree...

     

    I mean, if someone have a limit they cant bypass, if the game is in real time, there is no point in such a limit as it only bring frustrations...yet, if someone have an amount of turns they can use everyday and they dont stack if unuse(or stack in a very limited and decreasing way with time), then it is like a test of skills to do your best with limited ressources...IMHO.

     

    You dont *forced* peoples to log, you limit how much a toon can be developped over a time, this can be nice, but they need to work hard on making it nice so peoples can think overnight what to do, and honestly, in real time, folks cant think much overnight, for many reason, first it is hard to evolve a situation without knowing the details well, game based turn grant you this.  Yet, the action can be in real time, yet, there need to be some kinds of decisions that get more and more complex that are in a *game based turn* setting, where folks can think on it clearly at start, it just get deeper and deeper...

     

    Limited play can be nice, and hardcores players can play more toons or more games and maybe there is a goal to achieve stuff with more then 1 toon as well,  thereby granting them the right to play more to some extend.

     

    Limited amount of play is very casual friendly, folks can think over it in way to job or after sweety half say headache not tonight, without actually moving far...The challenge is to keep everyone motivated in playing MORE and looking forward to play MORE, so thereby, they need to be able to think over it, and real time is a real impediment to this aspect!

     

    Casuals will LOVE limited amount of play, and I can live with that althought I dont promise I wont be playing 5 toons.  Yet, I see a direct problem in real time, the whole idea behind limited play is to allow peoples to think, and game based turn allow it a lot better because folks understand the dynamic a lot easier.  IMHO...


    - "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • ShagsbeardShagsbeard Member Posts: 71

    This is really the difference between casual play and power gamers.  Casual players will benefit, and power gamers will be penalized.  If you don't like the idea.... don't play it.  DAoC does this to a lessor degree by having "camp bonus" to experience.  It's really the same idea.  If you sit at the same spot, killing the same mobs over and over... you don't gain as fast.  It's a good idea for a game, provided that you think that leveling up is playing the game.  If you consider the leveling up as a grind you must undergo in order to start playing... then you don't like any idea that slows your progression.

    For this to succeed in WoW, the leveling process needs to be fun.  The problem with L2, DAoC, and most other games out there... the level process is not fun.

    -Sig-
    Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
    It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.

    -Sig-
    Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
    It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.

  • DaryoonDaryoon Member Posts: 44

    I don't really want to takes sides regarding whether or not this feature will be a boon or bane (should it make "Final") until I have a chance to try the game. But what I will say is that I find it amusing that the hardcore players suddenly have their panties in a bunch over a feature that doesn't benefit them. There was a time when I was a hardcore gamer, but graduation from college, entering the professional job market and now having a family (wife, family, dog, etc) I am now stuck in the casual gamer world. This means when before I start a new MMORPG I usually 1) test it or 2) ask around on boards about whether the game is "reasonable" for a casual gamer. While there are always helpful people, there are ivariably the hardcore people that come by and tell me I shouldn't play MMORPGs if I don't have the "time", that I should load up final fantasy VII or KOTOR and leave "the real players" to the MMORPGs. In essence, the hardcore argument is "if your schedule doesn't work with the requirements of the game, shut up and go away." Now, as karma would have it, a game MAY have a feature which (albeit minimially) is not conduscive to the most hardcore of hardcore schedules (16 hour exp fests). Now those same people that once said "if you don't like the play schedule, screw off" are now whining because the game creates a "play schedule" that isn't condusive to their style. I guess this long post serves as little more than to point to the irony of the situation.

    At any rate, I have no desire to inhibit anyone elses ability to have fun. Hopefully the feature will be well tested and IF it benefits the general gaming community, fanbase and the WoW vision, it will stay in. If not, I hope it comes out. But, either way, its fun to see all of the people that basically told casual players to F-off suddenly become whiners.

    Ah well, flame away! ::::40::

    Spooooon!!!!

    Spooooon!!!!

  • ChronicRickChronicRick Member Posts: 569



    Originally posted by Daryoon

    I don't really want to takes sides regarding whether or not this feature will be a boon or bane (should it make "Final") until I have a chance to try the game. But what I will say is that I find it amusing that the hardcore players suddenly have their panties in a bunch over a feature that doesn't benefit them.



    Lol I like it already too Daryoon. (Damn non-social MMO grinders...)


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  • AdrealAdreal Member Posts: 2,087
    I'm a hardcore player when it comes to playing a good MMORPG. I used to fight and earn experience in AC 1 for a day straight. I'd get on to play in the morning and (with the exception of eating) I'd play until night if it was a weekend. I used to do the same thing with gs3 and this didn't bother me at all. Leveling actually meant something. You couldn't become level 40 or 60 in one week. Infact it took months to become level 16, and the max level was 160+. I do hate exp fests now as opposed to how I really liked leveling in the past, and I view an mmorpG as more of a game now than a hobby. In short though, I don't really see this as a downside since it may actually make it so the hardcore gamer can't get to max level in one month...and I'm assuming it will force people to do other things as well while they are resting; maybe they will socialize, craft, plan events for guilds, er whatever else-who knows but the player.

    "Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
    "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
    AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767

    well there is a good argument in favor of blizzard's implementation of the rest system:

    I am sure that blizzard has done their research regarding consumer age groups, etc.

    *1: Most mmo subscribers are socially dysfunctional 

    *2: *1/total_market <= 10%  

    *3: free time by total_market - *1 >> *1

    *4: time spent playing proportional to character advancement

    *5: since total profit = C (consumed)- TC (total cost) and C = time * k  (some constant) * n (users)

    *6: total_market - *1

    *7: let T be the time for the lvling with rest implementation

    *8: let t be the time for the lvling without the rest implementation

    *9: Assumption: total game time played is a function of how quickly the characters lvl

    *10: *9 => T > t

    *11: the rest feature would not affect (*6) in any other manner besides *9

    *11: => T * (*6) * k > t * (*1) * k 

             since (*6) >> 1 and T > t

     

    So please try convincing them otherwise -_-

     

     

     

    //\//\00 (oVV

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • ObiyerObiyer Member UncommonPosts: 511

    Yeah //\, it's a really good business idea. However will people pay not to play is the question. I do agree there needs to be game out there friendly to casual gamers, and at least one mmorpg needs to cater to them. I hope this change is placed in retail, because the idea really helps me on which mmorpg to get next - there are so many coming out.

  • JiraiyaJiraiya Member Posts: 150

    I think u guys are taking the word rest from 'Rest-State' too seriously....by implementing this feature..blizzard want players to go out and do other things in the game.....

    They don't want players to just level grind non-stop and keep thinking of reaching max level. You would miss out other aspects of the game. This could encourage pple to do other things nt just leaving their character staring at space. Players could train theri tradeskills, socialise etc etc. You guys are thinking that by implementing this feature....blizzard is asking u guys to let ur char idle while u rest. (I'm no beta player so im nt sure how the rest-state really works out)

    Although this the gd point of it...theres the bad points too like those of u who are against it have posted. 

    P.S I think i read frm the blizz webby that getting frm totally exhauted to totally fit takes about 8hrs......but anyone here knows how long it takes frm Fully fit to totally exhausted?

     

  • JiraiyaJiraiya Member Posts: 150

    Hey - you guys should realize that many people here are Hard core gamers too, and we didn't pull the trigger on this without realizing the huge uproar it could cause.

    Most people on the forums have not been playing with the change and are theorizing all these ways THEY could get screwed over. In the reality of play testing the change, it hasn't been a big deal.

    Ultimately the beta is the right time to try out new ideas in the game. We fully intend to look through the feedback and work on the system. All we ask in return of our beta testers is to give the new system a fair shake rather then blasting it on paper.

    -Eno

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sorry for double posts....the above is frm a blizz employee.

    Btw i think blizzard is being arrogant here by implementing this feature...they are trying to say that their game is so great that by implementing this feature...they could prevent pple frm playing 10+ hrs a day. image

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