first up i want to say that all that is said in my post is speculation and probably full of holes but here it goes
AoC = will be the first true MMORPG on a console, which will bring in a whole new breed of gamers, it MIGHT also be cross platform which will also make people who own both platforms want to play together with housemates and friends without top end PCs, this game will be big imho
Actually, Final Fantasy XI was the first true MMORPG on a console, by far. In fact, it's on 3 different platforms and still kicking successfully. It's second to WoW according to mmogchart.
Wow what a desperate thread to save a sinking ship of a game. Hopefully somwhere down the road vanguard will accomplish what WAR has in alpha, helmets and more than 5 spell effects : O.....
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game. War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever. LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content. Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either. Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
Age of Conan is superior to VG in graphics. Making you only play as a human adds balance. You no longer have to balance out 15 racials, you are equal. The game is coming out on PC 10 -30- 07 and will be released for 360 around 6 months later. The game has PVE raids, and PVP raids, and the battle system is new and unique.
In WAR there is pve and pvp content on every tier land. It simply will do good for the name alone.
You claim LOTRO will die when content dries up. What will WoW due when the content dries up? What will Vanguard do WHEN IT GETS SOME CONENT?
Not even going to get into GnH.
Now, Vanguard is sitting on around 130k subs. I am willing to be that Age of Conan, Warhammer, and Lord of the Rings Online do that in their first month. Also by the time these other games come out, players from other MMOs flock to what is new and Vanguard WILL lose some players to each of these games. Not like Vanguard needs help losing subs though. The sole reason VG will never die completely is because of the SOE station pass.
Vanguard added what that was new? Diplomacy. A mini game. I used to be on the Vanguard bandwagon for quite some time, but after playing it since launch and reading/watching videos of AoC and WAR, it is safe to say they are going to do just fine. LOTRO will sell even if it is a horrible game, but it has been fun in the beta. The same can not be said for Vanguards beta. Oh wait... it still IS in the beta...
first up i want to say that all that is said in my post is speculation and probably full of holes but here it goes
AoC = will be the first true MMORPG on a console, which will bring in a whole new breed of gamers, it MIGHT also be cross platform which will also make people who own both platforms want to play together with housemates and friends without top end PCs, this game will be big imho
Actually, Final Fantasy XI was the first true MMORPG on a console, by far. In fact, it's on 3 different platforms and still kicking successfully. It's second to WoW according to mmogchart. ok i completely forgot about FFXI truth be told, but as i said before i posted that, the post was probably full of holes, and i only really wanted to get onto the WAR debate but didnt want to dangle that and that alone, but thanks for the correction should have said AoC will be the first true mmorpg targeted at the next gen consoles
Each of those game will pull subscribers away from Vanguard, don't kid yourself. Especially the "I played WoW too long and need a change" crowd, which makes up a significant portion of Vanguards subscriber base.
I truly find it funny that people are telling me to brush up on my reading skills when they obviouisly cannot read at all. I have never said that WAR was a WoW clone. No where. I also reiterated and clarified that point. You obviously can't read though or you would see this. Vanguard is NOT half as bad as you people are claiming. Granted on your 486's it might be a bit slow but for people who are actually realize that when a game isn't giving you the performance you want, you need to tweak it. Leareth will be running around in Telon until the servers shut down or until another game comes out that isn't based solely on PvP, Graphics or an IP that I know like the back of my hand.
You said war "is a wow'ish graphical clone". Instead of bashing peoples ability or inability to read you should first learn how to write in a clear and consice manner in order to get your point across smoothly and effectively. Secondly as to how good or bad Vanguard is is entirely a subjective matter best left to the individuals. It may be your cup of tea and that is great, I do so hope that it keeps you and your kind far the *bleep* away from any game that I decide to play.
Let's see, one of the largest points for vanguard is supposedly it's graphics, then you go and say you won't run to a game based on graphics? You are such a graphics whore that you automatically assume that everyone that see's vanguard for the trite rehashed bs that it is leaves because they do not have a decent hardware setup? You are indicative of the general population that I had the misfortune of running across in my short stay in vanguard and, as I have said before please, stay and enjoy your game and keep far the hell away from normal people that don't feel a need to drop to their knees in front of Brad McQuaid.
I truly find it funny that people are telling me to brush up on my reading skills when they obviouisly cannot read at all. I have never said that WAR was a WoW clone. No where. I also reiterated and clarified that point. You obviously can't read though or you would see this. Vanguard is NOT half as bad as you people are claiming. Granted on your 486's it might be a bit slow but for people who are actually realize that when a game isn't giving you the performance you want, you need to tweak it. Leareth will be running around in Telon until the servers shut down or until another game comes out that isn't based solely on PvP, Graphics or an IP that I know like the back of my hand.
You said war "is a wow'ish graphical clone". Instead of bashing peoples ability or inability to read you should first learn how to write in a clear and consice manner in order to get your point across smoothly and effectively. Secondly as to how good or bad Vanguard is is entirely a subjective matter best left to the individuals. It may be your cup of tea and that is great, I do so hope that it keeps you and your kind far the *bleep* away from any game that I decide to play.
Let's see, one of the largest points for vanguard is supposedly it's graphics, then you go and say you won't run to a game based on graphics? You are such a graphics whore that you automatically assume that everyone that see's vanguard for the trite rehashed bs that it is leaves because they do not have a decent hardware setup? You are indicative of the general population that I had the misfortune of running across in my short stay in vanguard and, as I have said before please, stay and enjoy your game and keep far the hell away from normal people that don't feel a need to drop to their knees in front of Brad McQuaid.
From the original post "War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever."
Where is the word clone in there again?
Also where did I say that VG had great graphics? Didn't happen once again. You people just love to put words into peoples mouths don't you? Personally I think VG's PC/NPC models need some work.
I play because I actually enjoy earning my levels and not having everything handed to me.
Before you start to criticize and bash my ability to write in a clear and concise manner, maybe you should read what you are replying to instead skimming one or two sentences for what you want to see.
Kill? Who want to kill another game? If Vanguard is dying/died, it is commiting suicide, it doesn't need any help.
AoC and WAR will prolly be at least ten times more popular, if not hundred of times more popular than Vanguard. (both of them, even if AoC is not for me in any form)
LotRO? I think it will do a little better than Vanguard, solely due to the franchise name.
Any comparaison toward a successfull project is obviously a good thing for a game such as Vanguard, it need any publicity it can get, even if the publicity says Vanguard is inferior to WAR or AoC, it is still publicity...so I understand the OP wishes. Just like every game keep comparing themselves to WoW.
Now...about Vanbois...they keep comparing Vanguard to...EvE. I didn't see any other game that keep been compared to a game that has 50k subscribers. Quite funny that the peoples here thinks EvE is worthy of such attention, of course EvE is doing slightly better than Vanguard since these 50k are firm and solid subscribtions, but still...should be compairing itself to the top dog...not EvE!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Now that's funny. PvP is niche now? That's the kind of awesome thinking that led to Vanguard's stellar success.
Exactly!! Vanguard gets cancelled, I promise it will happen.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
I played for the first month of release, just about everyone I met in game was playing it because there is nothing else new around right now. The general chat was filled with people talking about whatever game they are waiting for.
WAR - imo it will be the big winner this year. Aswell as the WoW pvp crowd I think this one will make VG pvp servers barren.
AoC - has a lot of stuff that sounds pretty cool including the mounted combat,.. hmmm didn't VG say it was having mounted combat a while back? I think this will deal the biggest blow to VG.
LOTR - it will take vanguard players who have had enough, its released before the others so unhappy VG players who dont want to go back to old games are likely to check it out.
Chronicles of Spellborn - has a nice sounding quest system and solo instances(VG was meant to cater to the solo player too). Also has a different aproach to progressing with its sklll system It sounds interesting but doesn't seem to get talked about so much which is not great.
With all these games and others I think VG will be lucky to have 50k subs by christmas.
Now that's funny. PvP is niche now? That's the kind of awesome thinking that led to Vanguard's stellar success.
Exactly!! Vanguard gets cancelled, I promise it will happen.
Hehe, not in the near future.
Even if it would only have 10k subscribers, Sony would want to cash some money from it. Any money is better than none. Sony already has the servers, no sense in closing them all.
Now Sigil will work on some other project pretty soon and leave a skeletal crew, that is more likely. Servers merging? That is harder to say, since it isn't expensive to keep a server running, it depend on the impact they want on their playerbase. Vanguard in it current state is extremely unlikely to get 3 expansions.
PS: Matrix never get any serious amount of players, and the game is still running. Vanguard, despite been a deception considering the cash invested, is still interesting more players than Matrix...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game. War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever. LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content. Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either. Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
No flame necessary. If you think this is an intelligent way to validate the game you enjoy go right ahead, but IMHO it might be better to point out the pro's of your chosen game instead of the cons of all others.. you sound like a politician.
Hey you forgot Tabula Rasa - its out in September.
Designed by Richard Garriott - You know the guy behind all those Ultima Games - not to mention Ultima Online which is still around.
And WAR - its going to be big - you know its developed by the guys who did Dark Age of Camelot. The guys who introduced realm vs realm. I don't see that being a niche game at all. Should easily do a million subscriptions in its first year. Its got a great I.P, big base of potential fans in all those people who play the tabletop game.
And of course with the WoWish graphics that means it will run on millions of PC's that are out now. Unlike some games we don't need to name.
And of course Age of Conan and LOTRO - with those games coming out - who will be playing Vanguard at the end of the year?
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game. War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever. LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content. Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either. Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
War is not a WoW clone by any stretch of the imagination. Do some research before spouting nonsense.
I must say, its seldom you need to say anything... Vanguard fans do a great job proving how little they know, and spend thousands of words a day proving it over.. and over... again. Its like they cant open their mouth without starting the flamebait.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
OP is definitely a VG fanboy. That's the problem with today gamers - they don't want to acknowledge the truth and live in their own world full of dreams. 1. Let me get this right, WAR is not gonna kill VG, because it's graphics look like WoW?? Jesus, do you really believe that ppl play MMO ONLY for graphics?! What are your other arguements? None.... 2. LOTRO won't be popular, because it's content gonna dry after a while? As if VG's content won't....Plus, as you mentioned, LOTRO has a lot of fans, which VG doesn't have and never will. 3. AoC . Same arguements: graphics, one race. So the hell what?! The game's gonna be popular not because of the graphics, but because of the CONTENT. You can defend VG as long as you want, but if you put your stupid fanboysm aside, you'll see that you are wrong.
Hmm just like to point out Sigil's contractual agreements with SOE.
Those subscriber numbers get too low and you can wave goodbye to Vanguard station pass or no. Remember this isn't SOE game, they are just under contract to host it.
Soon as Sigil can no longer afford to pay SOE for bandwidth, server maintance, and CS support, under their contract agreement either
A ) Vanguard is tossed from the SOE lineup.
or
Sigil is bought out much the same way Verant was, just for much much less.
Understand that Sigil came back to SOE with a huge debt hanging over their heads. Development costs are not just gifts, they are loans. Sigil has already had to cut staff 3 times because they could not afford to pay them.
Personally I don't care how good or bad you think the game is, its life and or death all depend on the money, and Sigil's inability to balance a budget, manage money, and extravagent market spending are the reasons Vanguard is doomed to die before year's end.
Players rarely ever think about the business end of game development, and in Brad's own words he is a player just like you.
Players, devs, support staff always like to bitch about the " suits " the business managers and financial staff but I am telling you from personal experience the MOST important member of any new game development, scratch that, of any business venture at all, is the Financial Officer.
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game. War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever. LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content. Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either. Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
War is not a WoW clone by any stretch of the imagination. Do some research before spouting nonsense.
Well I still can't see ANYWHERE in the original post the word CLONE.
P.S [edit] Might I suggest you take heed of your own advice there?
Anyone who is stupid enough to buy and pay monthly to test a game in Alpha stage deserves pity.
VG has supposedly been in development for 6 years to get to it's current laughable state. If we ignore it, it might just go away!
Sort out your financial problems and you too can enjoy Vanguard, the lousy sub-fee or cost of the game should not hurt your wallet, at least not if you are in the range of being an adult. Funny how some people can be so incridible ignorant and small-minded.
I laugh at the idea of a game that makes about 120Mil a MONTH and the only thing they are giving back to those that play that game is a little tiny expension in the name of BC, now that is funny
AoC will be a very cool game for everone that wants a different and new kind of experiance in a MMO, though i'm not into pvp( anymore) i might get back at it with AoC, only time can tell. I really love the way they seem to work on quests, cutscenes make it look very promising.
WAR will be a very cool game for those that like/love pvp, by the looks of the game it isn't the game i'm looking forward too.
Turbine made a smart move with their lifetime subs, even if some might become bored in a few months after release with that sub you probebly return back in a a few weeks/months to see if something is changed or expensions are in place. Other then that LotrO will most likely have a much better launch then Vanguard has i think no one can or will deny that the game already as we speak feels ready for release. LotrO is also less of a "time-sink" compared to Vanguard, while this "time-sink" is something that is pure in some people minds that play their games like a job, they are still so it seems by reading forums a large portion of the playersbase in mmo's.
GaH will be targetted at a complete different audience, most likely bring the RTS crowed into MMO's as it seems to become a sort of MMORTS, which might also creat a new set of gamers that maybe never played regular RTS (i havn't looked into much of the game but made this out of what i read here at reply's).
All we can say is that this year finaly looks promising with Vanguard at the helm (not meaning at the top but pure at the start of new mmo's this year) of a nice year of great new games coming our way
I don't think any one game or combination of games is going to "do in vanguard".
I think it'll languish at the low end like SWG, DDO, or AO because of its poor launch and newer games coming out. The horrible word of mouth (in which I am happily playing a part) will do them more damage in terms of numbers than additional games. That just adds weight to the argument. "Don't play vanguard dude. It sucks. Play <game x> instead".
In pure numbers, AoC and/or WAR are going to do more damage to WoW than they are to Vanguard.
I believe that the pool of mmorpg players is reaching saturation where the growth will be a slow percentage of the population.
There is a fixed (percentage) segment of the population that will be interested in these games at any one given time. Some people will play more and some less, but at some point (which I theorize is either here or soon to be) the number of gamers will be relatively stable.
Any new game that comes out will attract fewer and fewer people. (This is not to say they won't get game buys or subscriptions, but they won't be keeping active players or maintaining subscriptions.)
As much as I hate SOE right now (because of the problems I had canceling my account(!) and being irritated that they knew it was a problem and didn't bother to fix it.), I think they're on the right track.
I see them continuing to put games into their portfolio as they lag behind the herd and not developing as many games. They will eventually have a pretty sizable storehouse of games and thusly keep a significant segment of the player base. This is a good idea unless there is some revolution in the marketplace. If that happens, I expect Sony to do a Crusty the Clown offer and bring truckloads of cash to their doorstep to bring the innovator in house.
I see miker$of staying out of the business because they can't compete with Sony and they aren't happy in any market in which there is fair competition. miker$of in all things is the oatmeal of breakfast foods.
Comments
Age of Conan is superior to VG in graphics. Making you only play as a human adds balance. You no longer have to balance out 15 racials, you are equal. The game is coming out on PC 10 -30- 07 and will be released for 360 around 6 months later. The game has PVE raids, and PVP raids, and the battle system is new and unique.
In WAR there is pve and pvp content on every tier land. It simply will do good for the name alone.
You claim LOTRO will die when content dries up. What will WoW due when the content dries up? What will Vanguard do WHEN IT GETS SOME CONENT?
Not even going to get into GnH.
Now, Vanguard is sitting on around 130k subs. I am willing to be that Age of Conan, Warhammer, and Lord of the Rings Online do that in their first month. Also by the time these other games come out, players from other MMOs flock to what is new and Vanguard WILL lose some players to each of these games. Not like Vanguard needs help losing subs though. The sole reason VG will never die completely is because of the SOE station pass.
Vanguard added what that was new? Diplomacy. A mini game. I used to be on the Vanguard bandwagon for quite some time, but after playing it since launch and reading/watching videos of AoC and WAR, it is safe to say they are going to do just fine. LOTRO will sell even if it is a horrible game, but it has been fun in the beta. The same can not be said for Vanguards beta. Oh wait... it still IS in the beta...
The steaming pile is on it's way out the end of the poop chute. It's just a matter of time.
All that'll be left is the clingers that can't let go. Like a dingle-berry.
Each of those game will pull subscribers away from Vanguard, don't kid yourself. Especially the "I played WoW too long and need a change" crowd, which makes up a significant portion of Vanguards subscriber base.
Let's see, one of the largest points for vanguard is supposedly it's graphics, then you go and say you won't run to a game based on graphics? You are such a graphics whore that you automatically assume that everyone that see's vanguard for the trite rehashed bs that it is leaves because they do not have a decent hardware setup? You are indicative of the general population that I had the misfortune of running across in my short stay in vanguard and, as I have said before please, stay and enjoy your game and keep far the hell away from normal people that don't feel a need to drop to their knees in front of Brad McQuaid.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
From the original post
"War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever."
Where is the word clone in there again?
Also where did I say that VG had great graphics? Didn't happen once again. You people just love to put words into peoples mouths don't you? Personally I think VG's PC/NPC models need some work.
I play because I actually enjoy earning my levels and not having everything handed to me.
Before you start to criticize and bash my ability to write in a clear and concise manner, maybe you should read what you are replying to instead skimming one or two sentences for what you want to see.
Kill? Who want to kill another game? If Vanguard is dying/died, it is commiting suicide, it doesn't need any help.
AoC and WAR will prolly be at least ten times more popular, if not hundred of times more popular than Vanguard. (both of them, even if AoC is not for me in any form)
LotRO? I think it will do a little better than Vanguard, solely due to the franchise name.
Any comparaison toward a successfull project is obviously a good thing for a game such as Vanguard, it need any publicity it can get, even if the publicity says Vanguard is inferior to WAR or AoC, it is still publicity...so I understand the OP wishes. Just like every game keep comparing themselves to WoW.
Now...about Vanbois...they keep comparing Vanguard to...EvE. I didn't see any other game that keep been compared to a game that has 50k subscribers. Quite funny that the peoples here thinks EvE is worthy of such attention, of course EvE is doing slightly better than Vanguard since these 50k are firm and solid subscribtions, but still...should be compairing itself to the top dog...not EvE!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
Vanguard is already dead.
I played for the first month of release, just about everyone I met in game was playing it because there is nothing else new around right now. The general chat was filled with people talking about whatever game they are waiting for.
WAR - imo it will be the big winner this year. Aswell as the WoW pvp crowd I think this one will make VG pvp servers barren.
AoC - has a lot of stuff that sounds pretty cool including the mounted combat,.. hmmm didn't VG say it was having mounted combat a while back? I think this will deal the biggest blow to VG.
LOTR - it will take vanguard players who have had enough, its released before the others so unhappy VG players who dont want to go back to old games are likely to check it out.
Chronicles of Spellborn - has a nice sounding quest system and solo instances(VG was meant to cater to the solo player too). Also has a different aproach to progressing with its sklll system It sounds interesting but doesn't seem to get talked about so much which is not great.
With all these games and others I think VG will be lucky to have 50k subs by christmas.
Hehe, not in the near future.
Even if it would only have 10k subscribers, Sony would want to cash some money from it. Any money is better than none. Sony already has the servers, no sense in closing them all.
Now Sigil will work on some other project pretty soon and leave a skeletal crew, that is more likely. Servers merging? That is harder to say, since it isn't expensive to keep a server running, it depend on the impact they want on their playerbase. Vanguard in it current state is extremely unlikely to get 3 expansions.
PS: Matrix never get any serious amount of players, and the game is still running. Vanguard, despite been a deception considering the cash invested, is still interesting more players than Matrix...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think that you all think that I think I care what you think.
I also think that if any of the mentioned games are good, I'll be there.
Can't wait for some sweet ass gore though! Go Conan!
If not, I'll probably be in Vanguard thinking that you thinking too much.
No flame necessary. If you think this is an intelligent way to validate the game you enjoy go right ahead, but IMHO it might be better to point out the pro's of your chosen game instead of the cons of all others.. you sound like a politician.
Hey you forgot Tabula Rasa - its out in September.
Designed by Richard Garriott - You know the guy behind all those Ultima Games - not to mention Ultima Online which is still around.
And WAR - its going to be big - you know its developed by the guys who did Dark Age of Camelot. The guys who introduced realm vs realm. I don't see that being a niche game at all. Should easily do a million subscriptions in its first year. Its got a great I.P, big base of potential fans in all those people who play the tabletop game.
And of course with the WoWish graphics that means it will run on millions of PC's that are out now. Unlike some games we don't need to name.
And of course Age of Conan and LOTRO - with those games coming out - who will be playing Vanguard at the end of the year?
I can see Vanguard becoming a niche game.
War is not a WoW clone by any stretch of the imagination. Do some research before spouting nonsense.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
T.R.
Hmm just like to point out Sigil's contractual agreements with SOE.
Those subscriber numbers get too low and you can wave goodbye to Vanguard station pass or no. Remember this isn't SOE game, they are just under contract to host it.
Soon as Sigil can no longer afford to pay SOE for bandwidth, server maintance, and CS support, under their contract agreement either
A ) Vanguard is tossed from the SOE lineup.
or
Understand that Sigil came back to SOE with a huge debt hanging over their heads. Development costs are not just gifts, they are loans. Sigil has already had to cut staff 3 times because they could not afford to pay them.
Personally I don't care how good or bad you think the game is, its life and or death all depend on the money, and Sigil's inability to balance a budget, manage money, and extravagent market spending are the reasons Vanguard is doomed to die before year's end.
Players rarely ever think about the business end of game development, and in Brad's own words he is a player just like you.
Players, devs, support staff always like to bitch about the " suits " the business managers and financial staff but I am telling you from personal experience the MOST important member of any new game development, scratch that, of any business venture at all, is the Financial Officer.
Brad however can't even balance a checkbook.
Anyone who is stupid enough to buy and pay monthly to test a game in Alpha stage deserves pity.
VG has supposedly been in development for 6 years to get to it's current laughable state. If we ignore it, it might just go away!
War is not a WoW clone by any stretch of the imagination. Do some research before spouting nonsense.
Well I still can't see ANYWHERE in the original post the word CLONE.
P.S [edit] Might I suggest you take heed of your own advice there?
I think it'll languish at the low end like SWG, DDO, or AO because of its poor launch and newer games coming out. The horrible word of mouth (in which I am happily playing a part) will do them more damage in terms of numbers than additional games. That just adds weight to the argument. "Don't play vanguard dude. It sucks. Play <game x> instead".
In pure numbers, AoC and/or WAR are going to do more damage to WoW than they are to Vanguard.
I believe that the pool of mmorpg players is reaching saturation where the growth will be a slow percentage of the population.
There is a fixed (percentage) segment of the population that will be interested in these games at any one given time. Some people will play more and some less, but at some point (which I theorize is either here or soon to be) the number of gamers will be relatively stable.
Any new game that comes out will attract fewer and fewer people. (This is not to say they won't get game buys or subscriptions, but they won't be keeping active players or maintaining subscriptions.)
As much as I hate SOE right now (because of the problems I had canceling my account(!) and being irritated that they knew it was a problem and didn't bother to fix it.), I think they're on the right track.
I see them continuing to put games into their portfolio as they lag behind the herd and not developing as many games. They will eventually have a pretty sizable storehouse of games and thusly keep a significant segment of the player base. This is a good idea unless there is some revolution in the marketplace. If that happens, I expect Sony to do a Crusty the Clown offer and bring truckloads of cash to their doorstep to bring the innovator in house.
I see miker$of staying out of the business because they can't compete with Sony and they aren't happy in any market in which there is fair competition. miker$of in all things is the oatmeal of breakfast foods.