AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game. War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever. LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content. Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either. Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
War is not a WoW clone by any stretch of the imagination. Do some research before spouting nonsense.
Well I still can't see ANYWHERE in the original post the word CLONE.
P.S [edit] Might I suggest you take heed of your own advice there?
Talk about augmenting your post count, was there actually a point to what you just said or do you have problems with English comprehension?
"War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever."
Ok, so he didnt use the word "clone" but the effect is the same. The FACT is that it is nothing like WoW. Moving on /yawn.
Lineage 2 is better than Vanguard..hell just about anything is.
And why listen to DMEnoc??? I mean any1 who puts their game avatar in there sig has gotta be 12, a complete and utter nerd, or just straight up gay. Go play your Vanguard and stop trying to convince yourself VG is a good game by trashing games that haven't even come out yet.
Also if you check out his Guild Forums..its funny how there is only 26 posts in the General Forum and id say over 70% of the topics have 0 replies LOL
Hahahaha you all make me laugh. I don’t understand your negative frustrated crap.
I’m having soo much fun in Vanguard. It’s beautiful and a very exciting journey.
Playing: TESO (great!) ************** Most looking forward for: Everquest Next ************** Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
Pirates of the Burning Sea is the sleeper MMORPG of 07. Nothing else matters.
I run the Mature Minded Gamers. We do video and board gaming videos and reviews. We also have a big Dungeons and Dragons community with multiple games active each week. Join us at: https://www.maturemindedgamers.com
This thread is a joke. For your information its not other games that will destroy Vangaurd, its Sigil themselves. Because they released a crappy unfinished and buggy game that should stay another year in beta. I am in LotR beta and they certainly have nothing to worry about, the big difference between LoTR and Vanguard is that LOTR doesn't feel like a completely unfinished and unstable game.
Vanguard has so far managed only about 100k subscribers. To put things in perspective that is the same number that the Sims Online managed a few weeks after their release. Back in those days EA claimed their game was a huge success, but of course now we know it was a huge failure, just as everyone will is now starting to realise that Vanguard has been a huge commercial failure. Don't let fanboys make you think otherwise.
Anyways fanboys shouldnt worry about when the game comes that will destroy vanguard, rather they should demand that Sigil fix a game that is already destroyed. Because if they don't do that this game will find its place on the graveyard of broken dreams where they will share space with other 100k "successes" like The Sims Online.
first up i want to say that all that is said in my post is speculation and probably full of holes but here it goes
AoC = will be the first true MMORPG on a console, which will bring in a whole new breed of gamers, it MIGHT also be cross platform which will also make people who own both platforms want to play together with housemates and friends without top end PCs, this game will be big imho
Actually, Final Fantasy XI was the first true MMORPG on a console, by far. In fact, it's on 3 different platforms and still kicking successfully. It's second to WoW according to mmogchart.
I feel I should point out that mmogchart.com hasn't been updated in almost a year.
Unless it's been moved to a new URL that I don't know about?
first up i want to say that all that is said in my post is speculation and probably full of holes but here it goes
AoC = will be the first true MMORPG on a console, which will bring in a whole new breed of gamers, it MIGHT also be cross platform which will also make people who own both platforms want to play together with housemates and friends without top end PCs, this game will be big imho
Actually, Final Fantasy XI was the first true MMORPG on a console, by far. In fact, it's on 3 different platforms and still kicking successfully. It's second to WoW according to mmogchart.
I feel I should point out that mmogchart.com hasn't been updated in almost a year.
Unless it's been moved to a new URL that I don't know about?
No, doesn't look like it has been updated since last year.
However, last year he didn't begin until April and finished in June.
I don't think any one game or combination of games is going to "do in vanguard".
I think it'll languish at the low end like SWG, DDO, or AO because of its poor launch and newer games coming out. The horrible word of mouth (in which I am happily playing a part) will do them more damage in terms of numbers than additional games. That just adds weight to the argument. "Don't play vanguard dude. It sucks. Play <game x> instead".
In pure numbers, AoC and/or WAR are going to do more damage to WoW than they are to Vanguard.
I believe that the pool of mmorpg players is reaching saturation where the growth will be a slow percentage of the population.
There is a fixed (percentage) segment of the population that will be interested in these games at any one given time. Some people will play more and some less, but at some point (which I theorize is either here or soon to be) the number of gamers will be relatively stable.
Any new game that comes out will attract fewer and fewer people. (This is not to say they won't get game buys or subscriptions, but they won't be keeping active players or maintaining subscriptions.)
As much as I hate SOE right now (because of the problems I had canceling my account(!) and being irritated that they knew it was a problem and didn't bother to fix it.), I think they're on the right track.
I see them continuing to put games into their portfolio as they lag behind the herd and not developing as many games. They will eventually have a pretty sizable storehouse of games and thusly keep a significant segment of the player base. This is a good idea unless there is some revolution in the marketplace. If that happens, I expect Sony to do a Crusty the Clown offer and bring truckloads of cash to their doorstep to bring the innovator in house.
I see miker$of staying out of the business because they can't compete with Sony and they aren't happy in any market in which there is fair competition. miker$of in all things is the oatmeal of breakfast foods.
There's really no evidence in the past of MMOs cannibalizing one another, or saturation ever being reached. There's just been periods of stagnation between the release of big successes that open the market up more.
I won't spam this thread with quotes, but I'd suggest reading this page of an interview with Richard Garriott that might change your outlook on future MMOs and how subscribers might pan out for them: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/765/765698p3.html
first up i want to say that all that is said in my post is speculation and probably full of holes but here it goes
AoC = will be the first true MMORPG on a console, which will bring in a whole new breed of gamers, it MIGHT also be cross platform which will also make people who own both platforms want to play together with housemates and friends without top end PCs, this game will be big imho
Actually, Final Fantasy XI was the first true MMORPG on a console, by far. In fact, it's on 3 different platforms and still kicking successfully. It's second to WoW according to mmogchart.
I feel I should point out that mmogchart.com hasn't been updated in almost a year.
Unless it's been moved to a new URL that I don't know about?
No, doesn't look like it has been updated since last year.
However, last year he didn't begin until April and finished in June. Final Fantasy is up there, but I'm pretty sure World of Warcraft, Lineage and Lineage II are still the big three when it comes to worldwide success.
Final Fantasy might have more subscribers than Lineage and Lineage II with just North America and Europe considered, I'm not sure. I know when the Xbox 360 version released last year, Square-Enix mentioned they'd already had over 500,000 subscribers in just Europe, North America and Japan before introducing a new expansion pack and that third platform.
And yes, Age of Conan is supposed to have at least some kind of cross-platform play. Not on every server I don't think, but on some of them.
Funcom is sitting pretty good with their ties with Microsoft. Xbox Live, the free marketing for being a DX10/Vista showcase game at all of the conferences the past year, the whole Games for Windows deal, and the summer release of Windows Live that will mirror it's console counterpart.
From were I am sitting Sigil and to some extent SoE allready did an outstanding job with the destruction of Vanguard.
I do however think that come april 24th there will be a noticeable effect on VG's playerbase.
Lotro migth very well be lacking some in the content department but it is beatiful and has atmosphere, it is alive so to speak, wereas VG is mostly dead, in terms of gameworld that is, not talking about players.
War and AoC is PvP centric to a great degree and I am not sure they even compete for the same market segment.
None the less, I find it harder and harder to believe VG will do some kind of Phoenix manouever and raise to any great heigths.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think any one game or combination of games is going to "do in vanguard".
I think it'll languish at the low end like SWG, DDO, or AO because of its poor launch and newer games coming out. The horrible word of mouth (in which I am happily playing a part) will do them more damage in terms of numbers than additional games. That just adds weight to the argument. "Don't play vanguard dude. It sucks. Play <game x> instead".
In pure numbers, AoC and/or WAR are going to do more damage to WoW than they are to Vanguard.
I believe that the pool of mmorpg players is reaching saturation where the growth will be a slow percentage of the population.
There is a fixed (percentage) segment of the population that will be interested in these games at any one given time. Some people will play more and some less, but at some point (which I theorize is either here or soon to be) the number of gamers will be relatively stable.
Any new game that comes out will attract fewer and fewer people. (This is not to say they won't get game buys or subscriptions, but they won't be keeping active players or maintaining subscriptions.)
As much as I hate SOE right now (because of the problems I had canceling my account(!) and being irritated that they knew it was a problem and didn't bother to fix it.), I think they're on the right track.
I see them continuing to put games into their portfolio as they lag behind the herd and not developing as many games. They will eventually have a pretty sizable storehouse of games and thusly keep a significant segment of the player base. This is a good idea unless there is some revolution in the marketplace. If that happens, I expect Sony to do a Crusty the Clown offer and bring truckloads of cash to their doorstep to bring the innovator in house.
I see miker$of staying out of the business because they can't compete with Sony and they aren't happy in any market in which there is fair competition. miker$of in all things is the oatmeal of breakfast foods.
There's really no evidence in the past of MMOs cannibalizing one another, or saturation ever being reached. There's just been periods of stagnation between the release of big successes that open the market up more.
I won't spam this thread with quotes, but I'd suggest reading this page of an interview with Richard Garriott that might change your outlook on future MMOs and how subscribers might pan out for them: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/765/765698p3.html
Pretty interesting read. I'm going to watch Tabula Rasa closely, but I think it has fundamental design flaws if they're looking to go above a niche market.
It looks cool to me so far though.
I read what he said about users cannibalizing games, but I'm not sure I agree with his conclusions. His ideas about Lineage I and II not cannibalizing off of each other might simply have been people having accounts in both games.
I kept my AO account and even my UO account open FOREVER after I was no longer actively playing those games.
There are a finite number of people. This number does increase.
Some portion of those people will be playing mmorpgs and others will arrive at an age where they will play as well.
I feel that at some point the number of users will rise as a percentage of the population. More people will add on as more people get broadband internet across the globe, so there will be waves of those increasing the overall population.
The trick is predicting where that stop percentage is.
EQ2 pulled a large number of EQ1 players at first and so did WoW. So at least in some respects, cannibalization does happen. (SOE put both on the station account now, so all station accounts count as 1 person for 1 game IMO.)
I expect WoW's numbers to begin to dwindle after those players have matured.
I'm thinking many people new to mmorpgs joined up with WoW and veterans, like us, are now faster to move from game to game and keep fewer active accounts.
I know I used to have a half-dozen accounts at one point. (MxO before SOE, EQ1, CoH, and AO at one point I know.) Then I did some house cleaning and canceled all the ones I didn't play.
Anyway, it was more speculation than anything else. I was just betting that the significant market set was nearing its peak.
Well lets see other then the fact that I have my game avatar in my sig and I said I was playing VG, never said I was a fanboi. I never said VG was the greatest game ever and never even implied that it was. As a matter of fact, all I said was that some of the games that you are promoting and talking about as being better, aren't the godsends that your making them out to be.
I have now had many personal attacks against me for my reading ability, writing ability, against my guild, against my personal life and my friends.
The funniest part of the whole thing is that I could go through and list each of the games that you all are 'fanbois' of.
Well lets see other then the fact that I have my game avatar in my sig and I said I was playing VG, never said I was a fanboi. I never said VG was the greatest game ever and never even implied that it was. As a matter of fact, all I said was that some of the games that you are promoting and talking about as being better, aren't the godsends that your making them out to be. I have now had many personal attacks against me for my reading ability, writing ability, against my guild, against my personal life and my friends. The funniest part of the whole thing is that I could go through and list each of the games that you all are 'fanbois' of.
You made a bunch of baseless overly opinionated accusations towards games you obviously knew very little about. Why expect anyone to put a lot of effort and respect in retorting when your original post lacks both?
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game. This game is going through a major simplification. Just like the VG Dev's, they bit off a bit too much. This would have been THE PVP game, but now it's questionable. It still looks good, and may beat VG in Subs. War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever. A Dark Version of WoW. It will do well, and have a good chance to pass VG at first, but won't have a lot of lasting power, since it's target audience will expect more content much too quickly for this small team. LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content. A well built & AMAZING Sub concept. This won't be bigger then VG, but has a chance to equal it. Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either. Looking at the early Vid's and play, this game is a joke. Unless it's free to play, it's set to fail horribly. Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away. A few of these games could beat VG. That said, VG has a longer play cycle. Pesonally, I don't believe any game with LVL's can last...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by sepher Originally posted by DMEnoc Well lets see other then the fact that I have my game avatar in my sig and I said I was playing VG, never said I was a fanboi. I never said VG was the greatest game ever and never even implied that it was. As a matter of fact, all I said was that some of the games that you are promoting and talking about as being better, aren't the godsends that your making them out to be. I have now had many personal attacks against me for my reading ability, writing ability, against my guild, against my personal life and my friends. The funniest part of the whole thing is that I could go through and list each of the games that you all are 'fanbois' of.
You made a bunch of baseless overly opinionated accusations towards games you obviously knew very little about. Why expect anyone to put a lot of effort and respect in retorting when your original post lacks both?
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
And yet another attack. Funnier yet is this person is claiming I made baseless and opinionated accusations. Every single thing I said is true (discount what other people put into my mouth, like calling War and WoW clone). Not made up and in one post even used a link from AoC's own website to prove what I had said. As far as opinionated, unfortunately, Sepher, anything anybody ever writes or says is colored by their 'opinion'.
Originally posted by DMEnoc Well lets see other then the fact that I have my game avatar in my sig and I said I was playing VG, never said I was a fanboi. I never said VG was the greatest game ever and never even implied that it was. As a matter of fact, all I said was that some of the games that you are promoting and talking about as being better, aren't the godsends that your making them out to be.
I have now had many personal attacks against me for my reading ability, writing ability, against my guild, against my personal life and my friends.
The funniest part of the whole thing is that I could go through and list each of the games that you all are 'fanbois' of.
You made a bunch of baseless overly opinionated accusations towards games you obviously knew very little about. Why expect anyone to put a lot of effort and respect in retorting when your original post lacks both?
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
And yet another attack. Funnier yet is this person is claiming I made baseless and opinionated accusations. Every single thing I said is true (discount what other people put into my mouth, like calling War and WoW clone). Not made up and in one post even used a link from AoC's own website to prove what I had said. As far as opinionated, unfortunately, Sepher, anything anybody ever writes or says is colored by their 'opinion'.
Well, to be fair that last post wasn't really an attack, at least as I understand you saying (ad hominem is what I believe you're referring to). You did attack him as well. ("...won't run on your 486..." or something to that effect earlier.)
Also, trying to build Vanguard: Sofa Rage Hos up by tearing all the other games down isn't really going to make it a better game anyway. If the accusations were correct, then it'd only make them... well... as crappy as VG: SRH.
You, me, and the dog named Flea's babbling about the state of other unreleased games has to be 99% speculation by default. We don't know dick about how they are really going to launch.
As a piece of advice, don't say "you all" in a blanket statement. That sounds argumentative to the whole thread.
And plays for sympathy don't really work either. Forums are known for their collective lack of empathy in general.
Originally posted by DMEnoc Well lets see other then the fact that I have my game avatar in my sig and I said I was playing VG, never said I was a fanboi. I never said VG was the greatest game ever and never even implied that it was. As a matter of fact, all I said was that some of the games that you are promoting and talking about as being better, aren't the godsends that your making them out to be.
I have now had many personal attacks against me for my reading ability, writing ability, against my guild, against my personal life and my friends.
The funniest part of the whole thing is that I could go through and list each of the games that you all are 'fanbois' of.
You made a bunch of baseless overly opinionated accusations towards games you obviously knew very little about. Why expect anyone to put a lot of effort and respect in retorting when your original post lacks both?
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
And yet another attack. Funnier yet is this person is claiming I made baseless and opinionated accusations. Every single thing I said is true (discount what other people put into my mouth, like calling War and WoW clone). Not made up and in one post even used a link from AoC's own website to prove what I had said. As far as opinionated, unfortunately, Sepher, anything anybody ever writes or says is colored by their 'opinion'.
You think 'insinuation' is a new concept to anyone here?
Originally posted by DMEnoc
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game.
So did you not insinuate there that Age of Conan would not run on DX9 cards perfectly fine? That because certain aspects of it was designed for console gaming, it wasn't designed for PC gaming?
Fact: Age of Conan runs fine on DX9 cards, as demonstrated the freakin' entire development of the game since the DX10 version debuted less than half a year ago.
Fact: Funcom has a development deal with Microsoft for Age of Conan to be a showcase title for Vista and Games for Windows. If anything, expect this game to run more optimally on your PC. But you should go let them know that they should change that to a showcase title for Xbox 360 since according to you; the game skewed towards consoles moreso than PCs.
Originally posted by DMEnoc
War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever.
You insinuate by calling WAR 'niche' for being a PvP-centric that it'll have a fixed population possibility.
Fact: It'll have consensual PvP on all servers. WoW has consensual PvP on all servers. Vanguard doesn't have consensual PvP.
Maybe you were insinuating WAR is geared towards that multi-million player niche, whereas Vanguard the couple hundred thousand niche? Gotcha. Don't see how bringing that up helps Vanguard's case when comparing the two though.
Originally posted by DMEnoc
LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content.
Brad couldn't have stated that better. The good ol' count on other MMOs to dry up strategy.
You insinuate Turbine for some reason is going to never update their game pass release with new quality content. Or rather, it's your 'opinion' that anything added would be crap. How is that fact?
Originally posted by DMEnoc
Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but
<snip>
Should've been quiet there.
Originally posted by DMEnoc
Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
Based solely on empty insinuations and childish opinions. Forgive me if I'm not convinced.
It is safe to assume that people who will play AoC, TCoS, PotBS,PotC,LotRO,WAR,GnH, among many other MMOs WILL take players from all current MMOs which is going to hurt them all a little bit, but Vanguard is hurtin' pretty bad just from itself. These will only add to it. There will be the hardcore fan base that sticks it out, just like other MMOs but it is not going to be some 300k subscriber game.
To the other guy who said that even though AoC is good for DX10, and that it can run on DX9... that is true.
If you admit WAR and LOTRO will sell more because of their name alone, then why bring them into the argument?
If you admit you have little knowledge on Gods and Heroes, why bring it into the argument?
Since you clearly had little information on Age of Conan, why bother creating this topic at all?
every game gets a bit of a loss when a new one comes out, whats the whole point of this argument? will vanguard die...no..will it lose subscribers because of the new games comeing ...certainly...but so will every single mmo. If ya think about it this whole ''games coming is gonna kill this game'' argument is kinda dumb and unproven, for godsakes eq and swg and eq2 and ryl and saga of ryzom are still in existence and some of those named are doing well enuff even after all these years. If this kill game argument was true there should be a lot of mmo's that should have fallen by this rule.
Comments
War is not a WoW clone by any stretch of the imagination. Do some research before spouting nonsense.
Well I still can't see ANYWHERE in the original post the word CLONE.
P.S [edit] Might I suggest you take heed of your own advice there?
Talk about augmenting your post count, was there actually a point to what you just said or do you have problems with English comprehension?
"War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever."
Ok, so he didnt use the word "clone" but the effect is the same. The FACT is that it is nothing like WoW. Moving on /yawn.
Um, does anyone really care? VG is a dead game.
I got my laugh and that "I told you so" feeling after release. Who's even thinking about this dead game?
And why listen to DMEnoc??? I mean any1 who puts their game avatar in there sig has gotta be 12, a complete and utter nerd, or just straight up gay. Go play your Vanguard and stop trying to convince yourself VG is a good game by trashing games that haven't even come out yet.
Also if you check out his Guild Forums..its funny how there is only 26 posts in the General Forum and id say over 70% of the topics have 0 replies LOL
How can you "Destroy" something that's doing such a fine job of it all by itself?
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
I’m having soo much fun in Vanguard. It’s beautiful and a very exciting journey.
Playing: TESO (great!)
**************
Most looking forward for: Everquest Next
**************
Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift
Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
I like pie !
T.R.
Join us at: https://www.maturemindedgamers.com
This thread is a joke. For your information its not other games that will destroy Vangaurd, its Sigil themselves. Because they released a crappy unfinished and buggy game that should stay another year in beta. I am in LotR beta and they certainly have nothing to worry about, the big difference between LoTR and Vanguard is that LOTR doesn't feel like a completely unfinished and unstable game.
Vanguard has so far managed only about 100k subscribers. To put things in perspective that is the same number that the Sims Online managed a few weeks after their release. Back in those days EA claimed their game was a huge success, but of course now we know it was a huge failure, just as everyone will is now starting to realise that Vanguard has been a huge commercial failure. Don't let fanboys make you think otherwise.
Anyways fanboys shouldnt worry about when the game comes that will destroy vanguard, rather they should demand that Sigil fix a game that is already destroyed. Because if they don't do that this game will find its place on the graveyard of broken dreams where they will share space with other 100k "successes" like The Sims Online.
I feel I should point out that mmogchart.com hasn't been updated in almost a year.
Unless it's been moved to a new URL that I don't know about?
I feel I should point out that mmogchart.com hasn't been updated in almost a year.
Unless it's been moved to a new URL that I don't know about?
No, doesn't look like it has been updated since last year.
However, last year he didn't begin until April and finished in June.
I won't spam this thread with quotes, but I'd suggest reading this page of an interview with Richard Garriott that might change your outlook on future MMOs and how subscribers might pan out for them: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/765/765698p3.html
I feel I should point out that mmogchart.com hasn't been updated in almost a year.
Unless it's been moved to a new URL that I don't know about?
No, doesn't look like it has been updated since last year.
However, last year he didn't begin until April and finished in June. Final Fantasy is up there, but I'm pretty sure World of Warcraft, Lineage and Lineage II are still the big three when it comes to worldwide success.
Final Fantasy might have more subscribers than Lineage and Lineage II with just North America and Europe considered, I'm not sure. I know when the Xbox 360 version released last year, Square-Enix mentioned they'd already had over 500,000 subscribers in just Europe, North America and Japan before introducing a new expansion pack and that third platform.
And yes, Age of Conan is supposed to have at least some kind of cross-platform play. Not on every server I don't think, but on some of them.
Funcom is sitting pretty good with their ties with Microsoft. Xbox Live, the free marketing for being a DX10/Vista showcase game at all of the conferences the past year, the whole Games for Windows deal, and the summer release of Windows Live that will mirror it's console counterpart.
It's going to do really well.
You mean destroy it again?
From were I am sitting Sigil and to some extent SoE allready did an outstanding job with the destruction of Vanguard.
I do however think that come april 24th there will be a noticeable effect on VG's playerbase.
Lotro migth very well be lacking some in the content department but it is beatiful and has atmosphere, it is alive so to speak, wereas VG is mostly dead, in terms of gameworld that is, not talking about players.
War and AoC is PvP centric to a great degree and I am not sure they even compete for the same market segment.
None the less, I find it harder and harder to believe VG will do some kind of Phoenix manouever and raise to any great heigths.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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I won't spam this thread with quotes, but I'd suggest reading this page of an interview with Richard Garriott that might change your outlook on future MMOs and how subscribers might pan out for them: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/765/765698p3.html
Pretty interesting read. I'm going to watch Tabula Rasa closely, but I think it has fundamental design flaws if they're looking to go above a niche market.
It looks cool to me so far though.
I read what he said about users cannibalizing games, but I'm not sure I agree with his conclusions. His ideas about Lineage I and II not cannibalizing off of each other might simply have been people having accounts in both games.
I kept my AO account and even my UO account open FOREVER after I was no longer actively playing those games.
There are a finite number of people. This number does increase.
Some portion of those people will be playing mmorpgs and others will arrive at an age where they will play as well.
I feel that at some point the number of users will rise as a percentage of the population. More people will add on as more people get broadband internet across the globe, so there will be waves of those increasing the overall population.
The trick is predicting where that stop percentage is.
EQ2 pulled a large number of EQ1 players at first and so did WoW. So at least in some respects, cannibalization does happen. (SOE put both on the station account now, so all station accounts count as 1 person for 1 game IMO.)
I expect WoW's numbers to begin to dwindle after those players have matured.
I'm thinking many people new to mmorpgs joined up with WoW and veterans, like us, are now faster to move from game to game and keep fewer active accounts.
I know I used to have a half-dozen accounts at one point. (MxO before SOE, EQ1, CoH, and AO at one point I know.) Then I did some house cleaning and canceled all the ones I didn't play.
Anyway, it was more speculation than anything else. I was just betting that the significant market set was nearing its peak.
Well lets see other then the fact that I have my game avatar in my sig and I said I was playing VG, never said I was a fanboi. I never said VG was the greatest game ever and never even implied that it was. As a matter of fact, all I said was that some of the games that you are promoting and talking about as being better, aren't the godsends that your making them out to be.
I have now had many personal attacks against me for my reading ability, writing ability, against my guild, against my personal life and my friends.
The funniest part of the whole thing is that I could go through and list each of the games that you all are 'fanbois' of.
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
And yet another attack. Funnier yet is this person is claiming I made baseless and opinionated accusations. Every single thing I said is true (discount what other people put into my mouth, like calling War and WoW clone). Not made up and in one post even used a link from AoC's own website to prove what I had said. As far as opinionated, unfortunately, Sepher, anything anybody ever writes or says is colored by their 'opinion'.
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
And yet another attack. Funnier yet is this person is claiming I made baseless and opinionated accusations. Every single thing I said is true (discount what other people put into my mouth, like calling War and WoW clone). Not made up and in one post even used a link from AoC's own website to prove what I had said. As far as opinionated, unfortunately, Sepher, anything anybody ever writes or says is colored by their 'opinion'.
Well, to be fair that last post wasn't really an attack, at least as I understand you saying (ad hominem is what I believe you're referring to). You did attack him as well. ("...won't run on your 486..." or something to that effect earlier.)
Also, trying to build Vanguard: Sofa Rage Hos up by tearing all the other games down isn't really going to make it a better game anyway. If the accusations were correct, then it'd only make them... well... as crappy as VG: SRH.
You, me, and the dog named Flea's babbling about the state of other unreleased games has to be 99% speculation by default. We don't know dick about how they are really going to launch.
As a piece of advice, don't say "you all" in a blanket statement. That sounds argumentative to the whole thread.
And plays for sympathy don't really work either. Forums are known for their collective lack of empathy in general.
Come up with some real founded facts as to why those games aren't 'godsends' and then expect some civility.
And yet another attack. Funnier yet is this person is claiming I made baseless and opinionated accusations. Every single thing I said is true (discount what other people put into my mouth, like calling War and WoW clone). Not made up and in one post even used a link from AoC's own website to prove what I had said. As far as opinionated, unfortunately, Sepher, anything anybody ever writes or says is colored by their 'opinion'.
You think 'insinuation' is a new concept to anyone here?So did you not insinuate there that Age of Conan would not run on DX9 cards perfectly fine? That because certain aspects of it was designed for console gaming, it wasn't designed for PC gaming?
Fact: Age of Conan runs fine on DX9 cards, as demonstrated the freakin' entire development of the game since the DX10 version debuted less than half a year ago.
Fact: Funcom has a development deal with Microsoft for Age of Conan to be a showcase title for Vista and Games for Windows. If anything, expect this game to run more optimally on your PC. But you should go let them know that they should change that to a showcase title for Xbox 360 since according to you; the game skewed towards consoles moreso than PCs.
You insinuate by calling WAR 'niche' for being a PvP-centric that it'll have a fixed population possibility.
Fact: It'll have consensual PvP on all servers. WoW has consensual PvP on all servers. Vanguard doesn't have consensual PvP.
Maybe you were insinuating WAR is geared towards that multi-million player niche, whereas Vanguard the couple hundred thousand niche? Gotcha. Don't see how bringing that up helps Vanguard's case when comparing the two though.
Brad couldn't have stated that better. The good ol' count on other MMOs to dry up strategy.
You insinuate Turbine for some reason is going to never update their game pass release with new quality content. Or rather, it's your 'opinion' that anything added would be crap. How is that fact?
Should've been quiet there.
Based solely on empty insinuations and childish opinions. Forgive me if I'm not convinced.
Hmm, i dont seem to be able to figure out just what the point of this post is.
Vanguard and its innept dev team are going to kill Vanguard.
Any other MMO that comes along might speed that up some, but the true killer will be itself.
So what does it matter if,how, when,which,etc.. other mmos help to kill off Vanguard ?
It is safe to assume that people who will play AoC, TCoS, PotBS,PotC,LotRO,WAR,GnH, among many other MMOs WILL take players from all current MMOs which is going to hurt them all a little bit, but Vanguard is hurtin' pretty bad just from itself. These will only add to it. There will be the hardcore fan base that sticks it out, just like other MMOs but it is not going to be some 300k subscriber game.
To the other guy who said that even though AoC is good for DX10, and that it can run on DX9... that is true.
If you admit WAR and LOTRO will sell more because of their name alone, then why bring them into the argument?
If you admit you have little knowledge on Gods and Heroes, why bring it into the argument?
Since you clearly had little information on Age of Conan, why bother creating this topic at all?
playing eq2 and two worlds