how about skill caps in that game, i saw in the statistics that max lvl is 50, are there any other skills that can be developed without artificial cap-limits ... or is this like in many other mmorgs, when you reached max lvl you can't improve your character anymore ?
As far as i know, and I could be wrong, but there is skill caps in the game as well. Once you reach 50, it appears that you will have a ceiling with your skills. There are also attributes which can be raised as you reach milestones in a level. It seems as though you get additional attribute points about ever quater of a level to spend. This would more then likely stop at 50 as your no longer leveling.
However, I'm hoping that they will be proactive concerning the level cap and raise it faster then other titles such as WoW, where you were level 60 for over 2 years. Who knows?
I'm sure there will be a level cap increase soon. Along with skills being able to go higher. I've noticed that people are more to defend WoW even though they don't even play it. That strikes me as funny. Yet, they can bash another game because it's the "trendy" thing to do. If you want to be trendy, Play WoW... Leave the games like Vanguard, Everquest II, Ect for the people that enjoy playing them. Another simple solution.
321abcde: Hehe, I just read your post. I quit vanguard because the crafting and diplomacy parts of the game were, in my opinion, the reason the game was going to fail. I felt those additional pursuits made grouping for Adventure Quests, more difficult. <Shrug> To each his own. I thought the graphics, even at max performance on my somewhat-older machine were pretty nice. The classes, levelling, weapon and armor art, etc were the strong points. That and they didn't make you wait 60 levels to get a mount.
It is ok if you enjoy Vanguard, it is your priviledge to do so, but cut the whines about others that criticize it. It deserves all the criticism and more.
You have to understand people laid out money for a game that was not ready for distribution, it is understandable that they are upset by that. Just reading the posts by the lead designer makes me want to run from this game, he constantly contradicts his design decisions. Mark my words, this game will not get much better with such a poor designer running it.
So get used to the complaints about this game, they are not going away. Personally I am glad people are posting about it. Seeing that my bad vibes playing this game was reinforced by many others gave me sufficient reason to ditch the game after 30 days,
Hopefully this will sway others from wasting their money on it. So quit whining that others do not like the game, people deserve to know that before purchasing.
As for why grinding is "fun" in WoW; It's because its so damn easy, the game practically throws exp at you by mmo standards. After awhile though, you realize that your character isn't really progressing all that much per level, they just made it easier to get each level to give you a false sense of accomplishment. EXP is obviously important, but as far as progression goes, it takes a back seat role in WoW, and believe me, it is extremely easy to level in that game. Compared to most mmo's, you actually gain very little progression per level, but you level alot. Hell someone hit the new level cap in BC what, a day after it's release?
I found it a bit insulting really; It's like the took a normal exp gain system, gave you 1/5 of the bonus from leveling, but made you level 5 times faster. So essentially, your character isn't really progressing per level very much, they just did it so you can easily keep getting the leveling sound and see the number for your level increase more often, make the game pat you on the back more often to make you feel better or something, but apparently it works.
Just think about it, what if it took 5 times aslong to level in WoW as it does now, but you got 5 times the bonus per level? It be exactly the same when it comes to how long it takes to actually progress, but you would get bored because it seem to take longer to you, only because you don't get to see the game do a little dance for you all the time. (yes thats a metaphorical statement). Thats why people call it so noob friendly, take the same old tried and true formula, but make it clap and dance and look pretty to satisfy the easily amused. If anything the level cap in WoW should be 100 or maybe even more for how easy it is to level, it should take a very very long time before ANYONE hits the level cap and runs out of things todo. I guess they just want you to reroll so the game can start clapping for you all over again. WoW is about as "softcore" as it gets.
For how fast you level, you would think they would have put alot more focus into high level content, as in, that would be their main focus, but eventually you will realize that WoW was made to attract new players in droves, but does very little to hold on to players in the long run. It's aimed at the "casual" mmo crowd, because they won't play much so they don't need tons of endgame content. It's the first MMO i have played that actually ends up punishing you for playing alot, because you get near the end and have nothing intresting todo anymore. The more you play, the faster you run out of content; There isn't all that much content at all, it just paints what it does have really nicely to make it seem diffrent, just like the exp system.
You make a lot of really good points here, but I think you go astray when you say "took a normal EXP gain system...", I think that should have been "take a traditional EXP gain system..." and then you would have nailed it. Yes, Blizzard broke the mold on traditional EXP systems and made it available to the masses. There's nothing wrong with that and apparently a ton of people like it that way. That doesn't make them noobs. Harder is not always better, it's just harder. Some people want to keep it hard so that only the hard core gamer can ever get there, like it's some kind of right of passage or something. Blizzard said screw that, we want everyone to be able to get to the end game content whether they play 6 hours a day or 1 hour a day. That was a smart business decision in my opinion, not a flaw in the game design.
And you're wrong that people just like it because they get patted on the back more often. They like it because the end-game is within reach. That keeps you motivated. That keeps you wanting to progress. That keeps the casual gamer coming back for more. Sure it means that some of the hard-core will run out of stuff to do a little earlier, but it also means that the casual gamer can actually get to accomplish most of the stuff that the hard-core gamer will get to as well. That's not insulting, it's genious.
your poll is a little inaccurate. SOE's only involvement in this game is server hosting and technical assistance. If you wanna blame a company on Vanguard's failures, blame Sigil. Im not defending SOE in anyway (good lord...not after what they did to SWG) but you gotta blame the right people
That's not true. It is a fact that SOE staffers did work on the design of the game. This was reported by Brad Mcquaid. It has also been factually reported that SOE made the decision to release Vanguard in an incomplete state. Both companies are equally to blame.
I like to point out how bad SoE are as much as any other ex SWG vet that quit with the NGE but while SoE staffers did work on Vanguard surely they were under the direction of Sigil staff and following the Sigil design documents?
After EoF went live some of the EQ2 developers who had been working on it were lent to Sigil to help with the push towards Vanguard launch. They were only there for a few months so they certain were not in any senior developer positions.
SOE and Sigil agreed to an approximate launch date when SOE replaced Microsoft as distributor. The only thing SOE did to “force” Vanguard to launch was to not give Sigil yet another extension and yet another check.
321abcde: Hehe, I just read your post. I quit vanguard because the crafting and diplomacy parts of the game were, in my opinion, the reason the game was going to fail. I felt those additional pursuits made grouping for Adventure Quests, more difficult. <Shrug> To each his own. I thought the graphics, even at max performance on my somewhat-older machine were pretty nice. The classes, levelling, weapon and armor art, etc were the strong points. That and they didn't make you wait 60 levels to get a mount.
Mado
I sort of agree with this. I also didn't like diplomacy, because I don't like card games. I know some did, but it's definitely not my thing. It's supposed to be a group game, but you find less people to group with because some are spending their time playing a solo card game. WTH?
The game was designed for grouping as far as the mobs and quests go. GREAT! I love grouping in an MMORPG. However, they then spread the players all over the place so it's hard to get together and group. What sort of sense does that make?
This design might have made sense in a PvP game, if for example the dwarves were fighting the Elves, but it's NOT a PvP game, so why place them so far apart? Then if I take the time to travel all the way to another land, they don't even have trainers for my class. What kind of sense does that make?
It's sort of like they remade EQ, and then made it more tedious.
The biggest problem is, if they fix it so that it's more players friendly, and they probably will, I'm just not going to be bothered with looking back to start a game from the bottom, that most players have already leveled up in, and will probably just play a newer release.
You make a lot of really good points here, but I think you go astray when you say "took a normal EXP gain system...", I think that should have been "take a traditional EXP gain system..." and then you would have nailed it. Yes, Blizzard broke the mold on traditional EXP systems and made it available to the masses. There's nothing wrong with that and apparently a ton of people like it that way. That doesn't make them noobs. Harder is not always better, it's just harder. Some people want to keep it hard so that only the hard core gamer can ever get there, like it's some kind of right of passage or something. Blizzard said screw that, we want everyone to be able to get to the end game content whether they play 6 hours a day or 1 hour a day. That was a smart business decision in my opinion, not a flaw in the game design.
Why do you say Blizzard broke the mold by allowing fast leveling? WoW is certainly not the first game where you could level quickly.
And yes, as far as games go, within reason harder is almost always better. This is because something that is too easy quickly becomes mindless repetition, which is almost the definition of boring.
Comments
Hi there,
how about skill caps in that game, i saw in the statistics that max lvl is 50, are there any other skills that can be developed without artificial cap-limits ... or is this like in many other mmorgs, when you reached max lvl you can't improve your character anymore ?
As far as i know, and I could be wrong, but there is skill caps in the game as well. Once you reach 50, it appears that you will have a ceiling with your skills. There are also attributes which can be raised as you reach milestones in a level. It seems as though you get additional attribute points about ever quater of a level to spend. This would more then likely stop at 50 as your no longer leveling.
However, I'm hoping that they will be proactive concerning the level cap and raise it faster then other titles such as WoW, where you were level 60 for over 2 years. Who knows?
321abcde: Hehe, I just read your post. I quit vanguard because the crafting and diplomacy parts of the game were, in my opinion, the reason the game was going to fail. I felt those additional pursuits made grouping for Adventure Quests, more difficult. <Shrug> To each his own. I thought the graphics, even at max performance on my somewhat-older machine were pretty nice. The classes, levelling, weapon and armor art, etc were the strong points. That and they didn't make you wait 60 levels to get a mount.
Mado
It is ok if you enjoy Vanguard, it is your priviledge to do so, but cut the whines about others that criticize it. It deserves all the criticism and more.
You have to understand people laid out money for a game that was not ready for distribution, it is understandable that they are upset by that. Just reading the posts by the lead designer makes me want to run from this game, he constantly contradicts his design decisions. Mark my words, this game will not get much better with such a poor designer running it.
So get used to the complaints about this game, they are not going away. Personally I am glad people are posting about it. Seeing that my bad vibes playing this game was reinforced by many others gave me sufficient reason to ditch the game after 30 days,
Hopefully this will sway others from wasting their money on it. So quit whining that others do not like the game, people deserve to know that before purchasing.
You make a lot of really good points here, but I think you go astray when you say "took a normal EXP gain system...", I think that should have been "take a traditional EXP gain system..." and then you would have nailed it. Yes, Blizzard broke the mold on traditional EXP systems and made it available to the masses. There's nothing wrong with that and apparently a ton of people like it that way. That doesn't make them noobs. Harder is not always better, it's just harder. Some people want to keep it hard so that only the hard core gamer can ever get there, like it's some kind of right of passage or something. Blizzard said screw that, we want everyone to be able to get to the end game content whether they play 6 hours a day or 1 hour a day. That was a smart business decision in my opinion, not a flaw in the game design.
And you're wrong that people just like it because they get patted on the back more often. They like it because the end-game is within reach. That keeps you motivated. That keeps you wanting to progress. That keeps the casual gamer coming back for more. Sure it means that some of the hard-core will run out of stuff to do a little earlier, but it also means that the casual gamer can actually get to accomplish most of the stuff that the hard-core gamer will get to as well. That's not insulting, it's genious.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
I like to point out how bad SoE are as much as any other ex SWG vet that quit with the NGE but while SoE staffers did work on Vanguard surely they were under the direction of Sigil staff and following the Sigil design documents?
The game was designed for grouping as far as the mobs and quests go. GREAT! I love grouping in an MMORPG. However, they then spread the players all over the place so it's hard to get together and group. What sort of sense does that make?
This design might have made sense in a PvP game, if for example the dwarves were fighting the Elves, but it's NOT a PvP game, so why place them so far apart? Then if I take the time to travel all the way to another land, they don't even have trainers for my class. What kind of sense does that make?
It's sort of like they remade EQ, and then made it more tedious.
The biggest problem is, if they fix it so that it's more players friendly, and they probably will, I'm just not going to be bothered with looking back to start a game from the bottom, that most players have already leveled up in, and will probably just play a newer release.
Why do you say Blizzard broke the mold by allowing fast leveling? WoW is certainly not the first game where you could level quickly.
And yes, as far as games go, within reason harder is almost always better. This is because something that is too easy quickly becomes mindless repetition, which is almost the definition of boring.