I personally don't mind WoW..I don't like it, but I don't mind it lol. I tried 4 different times resubscribing, so I really did give it an honest try..just not for me. I personally don't like games where it is that easy to solo..because then EVERYONE is soloing and no one wants to group up.
The only thing I don't buy out of that list is the "8 Million" subscribers arguement. That is suggesting that if a huge mass of people all agree on something then that makes it the best choice. Let's see...57 Million voted for Bush (the highest vote count for an American president so far) so does that mean he was the best President ever? Highly doubtfull. Please look past the political tone in that statement and see the real analogy there. Just because a mass number of people collectively agree on something doesn't necessarilly mean it is the "best." People in large quantities on several seperate occassions, have royalty screwed the pooch when it comes to making decisions on this planet for thousands of years lol.
Not bashing the game, don't get me wrong..I just think it's silly to bring up subscriber base..I'd rather put my faith in the game itself than in the people who think it's great. Nothing personal.
what I find funny (more annoying) is how many people think their opinions are so much better than everyone else. it's a little bit like politics, where even protesters piss me off cause they're hypocritical, and most of them probably sniff crystal for breakfast. One person's opinion is a leaf falling on the ground. if you can't make a better point than just "it sucks", then nobody's going to take you seriously.
give a real reason why you don't like something. So many people who say bad things about a game are naive, don't know jack about the game industry or even what the game's developers meant to do. I say if you want to say something bad about a game, make something better first. until then just save us and yourself the trouble of discreditting you.
thank you
You know i'm honestly not even going to bother, this post just proves what i'm talking about so there
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
what I find funny (more annoying) is how many people think their opinions are so much better than everyone else. it's a little bit like politics, where even protesters piss me off cause they're hypocritical, and most of them probably sniff crystal for breakfast. One person's opinion is a leaf falling on the ground. if you can't make a better point than just "it sucks", then nobody's going to take you seriously.
give a real reason why you don't like something. So many people who say bad things about a game are naive, don't know jack about the game industry or even what the game's developers meant to do. I say if you want to say something bad about a game, make something better first. until then just save us and yourself the trouble of discreditting you.
thank you
You know i'm honestly not even going to bother, this post just proves what i'm talking about so there
Metzen admitted that he didn't do a very good work with the lore for the upcoming expansion.
My point of view isn't about being picky on the details, but more on the stylistic choices being made. While I really liked the WoW's universe even in its cartoonish traits and use of humor, I also think that there was always an epic theme that drove things forward. A thread. From my comment: My opinion is that the use of odd bits like technology or other elements not consistent with the setting is good when it remains CIRCUMSCRIBED.
The problem is when it becomes the main theme.
The same about the use of "humor". It's all good till it remains a sidetrack, but it becomes much more annoying when it's all about that. Overdone. Too emphasized. It's not anymore an added flavor.
It is not directly related to the "lore", but for example I really, really HATE the look of all the new armor sets. They aren't anymore consistent with any setting. They just look like colored plastic and completely miss any sense.
Where's the metal, bones and leather?
The point is when it isn't anymore "epic", and it becomes just "goofy".
Anyway back to Metzen
Mirrored here so that it doesn't vanishes off the internet.
Hit #1: Lore Train-Wreck
Right To be totally up-front with you guys, it's my bad, straight up. The obvious lore contradiction with Sargeras and his encounter with the eredar was clearly documented in the Warcraft III manual. I wrote those bits about four years ago, and to be totally honest, I simply forgot. Genius, right? With my excitement to get the draenei up to speed and root them more firmly in the setting, I forgot to do my homework and go back over my earlier writing. I can assure you, no ones more crushed about this mistake than I am. Ive spent the last few days kicking my own ass over this one. Sucks to fail. It may not always be evident, but we take this story stuff really seriously at Blizzard. It's been one of my personal missions at this company to maintain a high level of integrity throughout the Warcraft game setting (all of them, actually) and I think weve done a pretty decent job of upholding the continuity over the years.
I think it's important to note that world building is far bigger than just storytelling, and it requires (in my humble opinion) a certain amount of flexibility. Sometimes you need to expand certain ideas or retcon whole sections of continuity to broaden the scope and accessibility of your setting. There are a good number of these types of situations already (like totally revising our timeline, suggesting trolls were the progenitors of all elven subspecies, etc. there's a hundred other examples). To make an omelet, ya need to break a few eggs, and WoWs one big omelet.
The trouble is, this has become a pretty big setting. There are literally thousands of characters, hundreds of locations, and all sorts of creatures, items, and plot themes that all define this world. As you can imagine, it's a lot to police. Sometimes things do fall through the cracks, mistakes get made and were forced to scramble to come up with clever solutions to continuity errors. (Hakkar, anyone? ). You not only have me jamming ideas, but a ninja team of quest designers, an army of freelance RPG writers, and a commando squad of red-hot novelists who are all involved in fleshing out the lore and making it more than just wallpaper on a game.
I'm explaining all this not to excuse this particular mistake, but to give you some understanding of how the mistake was made. I've read a fair amount of posts over the past few days and I know theres a lot of confusion and frustration surrounding the whole eredar/draenei train wreck. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. At the end of the day, we're all just a bunch of geeky fanboys and fangirls, and we all get pretty fired up when people start screwing with the worlds we love. If anything, all of the venting and creative suggestions Ive seen over the past few days have reinforced for me the fact that you guys really do care about this world and its troubled denizens.
While I can't promise that these types of mistakes will never happen again, I do want to state clearly that we take the responsibility of crafting and maintaining this lore very seriously. You all pay good money to adventure through this world month by month, and you deserve the best we can give.
Dont lose faith well do ya proud!
Hit #2: So Whats the Story, Blizzard?
Ok, so what's the real scoop behind the eredar/draenei story then? At this point, even though the NEW lore directly counters the Warcraft III manual, we're still going to run with it. There are a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which is that I think it's far stronger than what I crafted back in the day. The eredar were not necessarily all evil. Sargeras did come to them and tempt them with power. They did NOT make Sargeras crazy. This gives the eredar more dimensionality and roots the draenei to a key moment in Burning Legion history.
We've also woven all of this new lore into an upcoming novel by Christie Golden (author of Lord of the Clans) that depicts the draeneis escape from Argus and the RISE OF THE HORDE on Draenor. The book DOMINATES, and you're going to really dig it. Durotan, Nerzhul, Guldan, Doomhammer, Hellscream, Kiljaeden, Velen; this story is the one youve been waiting for. I'm getting geeked up just thinking about it.
However, this new lore does leave a large hole. How did Sargeras go nuts? What drove him to fall and begin his Burning Crusade? I dont know yet. It will be his encounter with some evil race (who dares me to use Old Gods???), but it wont be the eredar.
I'll chew on this. Maybe we'll solve this by the end of the expansion. See this is that flexibility stuff I was talking about earlier
Hit #3: World of Spacecrafts
Another concern I've been hearing about is the inclusion of certain sci-fi elements into the setting. I appreciate that this stuff is pretty far out, but thats the whole point: Outland, and the greater universe out there in the void, ARE far out. Change is always difficult. I remember people getting really upset about dwarves with guns, steam-tech, Gnomeregan as a hi-tech city many people had a hard time rolling with those technologies in a fantasy setting. But I ask you all can you imagine WoW without those elements now?
We're definitely throwing some new concepts at you all, but I'm very confident that when youre able to see these elements in context, over the course of the game play, you'll understand why we've been so excited to include them.
To be clear, were not talking about having the Millennium Falcon cruising around the Twisting Nether (Im certain there would be some legal issues there, to say the least). The draenei nether-ship you've been hearing about is far more than it seems. Its part of a larger dimension-traveling fortress called Tempest Keep that essentially teleports through alternate realities. It doesnt bank and roll or shoot proton torpedoes (not yet, anyway).
While we will be introducing a number of naaru technologies (like this ship, for instance), we're not planning on going hog-wild. Conceptual balance is everything. For those of you who are fearful of seeing jet-packs and laser pistols filling up the AH, never fear. If you did see them, theyd likely be goblin engineered and get your character killed anyway.
Hit #4: Blood Elves Sure Get Around
I also saw some strangeness about the apparent contradiction of how the blood elves could have sabotaged the draenei nether-ship since they're all holed up in QuelThalas. Remember, there are twisted blood elves in Outland who have been there since TFT campaign. It's those creepy elves who sabotaged the draeneis flight to Azeroth.
I'd love to elaborate on this further, but I'm afraid I'd spoil your appetites for dessert.
In conclusion, I just want to reiterate that we do take these continuity errors very seriously.
It's very important to me that you all feel you can trust us as developers and know that were out to build a world thats worthy of your time and your passion.
Thanks for bearing with me here. See y'all on the other side of the Portal!
That's a good example, and answer to my question Battlekruse. And yet, one mistake doesn't make the lore completely 'f'd up'. There have always been conflicts in many mythologies, even the good ones.
You do understand that even Tolkien made mistakes with his lore and re-wrote parts of his mythology so that the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings didn't conflict?
TOLKIEN made mistakes.
The same is happening here. I don't see a big deal about it. Most of the lore is consistent, interesting and lends itself toward an interesting, yet refreshingly different mythology, with regards to humour and pop culture references.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Many mythologies change over time. The legend of King Arthur for example, was he a Briton, or was he french, or an alien ? And Everquest 1 and 2, does the world of EQ1 get obliterated like in EQ2, or is the "alternate universe" just an excuse?
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Many mythologies change over time. The legend of King Arthur for example, was he a Briton, or was he french, or an alien ? And Everquest 1 and 2, does the world of EQ1 get obliterated like in EQ2, or is the "alternate universe" just an excuse?
Yes, Mr Recant, But God I miss the lore. I mean the good old orignal Lore. Now there is space craft and there was one these insect swarms form the Deseart.,
Well at first I just wanted to have some fun seeing as how it was April fools day when I posted this, then I just wanted to point out the futility of WoW 'fanbois' posting hate to anyone who doesn't play their game..... Now I'm really just pointing and laughing since because of those very same people the thread has gone down to the..... Molten Core? :P
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Okay, seeing as how it's April fools and I wanted a laugh, I'm putting up a poll to decide what is the most common comeback you've seen a WoW player (or fanboi if you will) after someone posts a 'bad' opinion about their game. If you pick "Other" maybe you could describe the post below? I'm interested to see how this will turn out hehe.
Somewhat trivial don'tcha think? Nothing informative here. "Just nutha brutha tryin' to stir dah pot" as I see...
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Okay, seeing as how it's April fools and I wanted a laugh, I'm putting up a poll to decide what is the most common comeback you've seen a WoW player (or fanboi if you will) after someone posts a 'bad' opinion about their game. If you pick "Other" maybe you could describe the post below? I'm interested to see how this will turn out hehe.
Somewhat trivial don'tcha think? Nothing informative here. "Just nutha brutha tryin' to stir dah pot" as I see...
Why did you expect from a 16 year old kid?, something constructive /?
Comments
I personally don't mind WoW..I don't like it, but I don't mind it lol. I tried 4 different times resubscribing, so I really did give it an honest try..just not for me. I personally don't like games where it is that easy to solo..because then EVERYONE is soloing and no one wants to group up.
The only thing I don't buy out of that list is the "8 Million" subscribers arguement. That is suggesting that if a huge mass of people all agree on something then that makes it the best choice. Let's see...57 Million voted for Bush (the highest vote count for an American president so far) so does that mean he was the best President ever? Highly doubtfull. Please look past the political tone in that statement and see the real analogy there. Just because a mass number of people collectively agree on something doesn't necessarilly mean it is the "best." People in large quantities on several seperate occassions, have royalty screwed the pooch when it comes to making decisions on this planet for thousands of years lol.
Not bashing the game, don't get me wrong..I just think it's silly to bring up subscriber base..I'd rather put my faith in the game itself than in the people who think it's great. Nothing personal.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Heh, Not really Mr Ok21
Simple as that.
"But Blizzard is sticking to the lore!!!" lol
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
WoW's lore officially fucked up
Metzen admitted that he didn't do a very good work with the lore for the upcoming expansion.
My point of view isn't about being picky on the details, but more on the stylistic choices being made. While I really liked the WoW's universe even in its cartoonish traits and use of humor, I also think that there was always an epic theme that drove things forward. A thread. From my comment: My opinion is that the use of odd bits like technology or other elements not consistent with the setting is good when it remains CIRCUMSCRIBED.
The problem is when it becomes the main theme.
The same about the use of "humor". It's all good till it remains a sidetrack, but it becomes much more annoying when it's all about that. Overdone. Too emphasized. It's not anymore an added flavor.
It is not directly related to the "lore", but for example I really, really HATE the look of all the new armor sets. They aren't anymore consistent with any setting. They just look like colored plastic and completely miss any sense.
Where's the metal, bones and leather?
The point is when it isn't anymore "epic", and it becomes just "goofy".
Anyway back to Metzen
Mirrored here so that it doesn't vanishes off the internet.
Hit #1: Lore Train-Wreck
Right To be totally up-front with you guys, it's my bad, straight up. The obvious lore contradiction with Sargeras and his encounter with the eredar was clearly documented in the Warcraft III manual. I wrote those bits about four years ago, and to be totally honest, I simply forgot. Genius, right? With my excitement to get the draenei up to speed and root them more firmly in the setting, I forgot to do my homework and go back over my earlier writing. I can assure you, no ones more crushed about this mistake than I am. Ive spent the last few days kicking my own ass over this one. Sucks to fail. It may not always be evident, but we take this story stuff really seriously at Blizzard. It's been one of my personal missions at this company to maintain a high level of integrity throughout the Warcraft game setting (all of them, actually) and I think weve done a pretty decent job of upholding the continuity over the years.
I think it's important to note that world building is far bigger than just storytelling, and it requires (in my humble opinion) a certain amount of flexibility. Sometimes you need to expand certain ideas or retcon whole sections of continuity to broaden the scope and accessibility of your setting. There are a good number of these types of situations already (like totally revising our timeline, suggesting trolls were the progenitors of all elven subspecies, etc. there's a hundred other examples). To make an omelet, ya need to break a few eggs, and WoWs one big omelet.
The trouble is, this has become a pretty big setting. There are literally thousands of characters, hundreds of locations, and all sorts of creatures, items, and plot themes that all define this world. As you can imagine, it's a lot to police. Sometimes things do fall through the cracks, mistakes get made and were forced to scramble to come up with clever solutions to continuity errors. (Hakkar, anyone? ). You not only have me jamming ideas, but a ninja team of quest designers, an army of freelance RPG writers, and a commando squad of red-hot novelists who are all involved in fleshing out the lore and making it more than just wallpaper on a game.
I'm explaining all this not to excuse this particular mistake, but to give you some understanding of how the mistake was made. I've read a fair amount of posts over the past few days and I know theres a lot of confusion and frustration surrounding the whole eredar/draenei train wreck. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. At the end of the day, we're all just a bunch of geeky fanboys and fangirls, and we all get pretty fired up when people start screwing with the worlds we love. If anything, all of the venting and creative suggestions Ive seen over the past few days have reinforced for me the fact that you guys really do care about this world and its troubled denizens.
While I can't promise that these types of mistakes will never happen again, I do want to state clearly that we take the responsibility of crafting and maintaining this lore very seriously. You all pay good money to adventure through this world month by month, and you deserve the best we can give.
Dont lose faith well do ya proud!
Hit #2: So Whats the Story, Blizzard?
Ok, so what's the real scoop behind the eredar/draenei story then? At this point, even though the NEW lore directly counters the Warcraft III manual, we're still going to run with it. There are a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which is that I think it's far stronger than what I crafted back in the day. The eredar were not necessarily all evil. Sargeras did come to them and tempt them with power. They did NOT make Sargeras crazy. This gives the eredar more dimensionality and roots the draenei to a key moment in Burning Legion history.
We've also woven all of this new lore into an upcoming novel by Christie Golden (author of Lord of the Clans) that depicts the draeneis escape from Argus and the RISE OF THE HORDE on Draenor. The book DOMINATES, and you're going to really dig it. Durotan, Nerzhul, Guldan, Doomhammer, Hellscream, Kiljaeden, Velen; this story is the one youve been waiting for. I'm getting geeked up just thinking about it.
However, this new lore does leave a large hole. How did Sargeras go nuts? What drove him to fall and begin his Burning Crusade? I dont know yet. It will be his encounter with some evil race (who dares me to use Old Gods???), but it wont be the eredar.
I'll chew on this. Maybe we'll solve this by the end of the expansion. See this is that flexibility stuff I was talking about earlier
Hit #3: World of Spacecrafts
Another concern I've been hearing about is the inclusion of certain sci-fi elements into the setting. I appreciate that this stuff is pretty far out, but thats the whole point: Outland, and the greater universe out there in the void, ARE far out. Change is always difficult. I remember people getting really upset about dwarves with guns, steam-tech, Gnomeregan as a hi-tech city many people had a hard time rolling with those technologies in a fantasy setting. But I ask you all can you imagine WoW without those elements now?
We're definitely throwing some new concepts at you all, but I'm very confident that when youre able to see these elements in context, over the course of the game play, you'll understand why we've been so excited to include them.
To be clear, were not talking about having the Millennium Falcon cruising around the Twisting Nether (Im certain there would be some legal issues there, to say the least). The draenei nether-ship you've been hearing about is far more than it seems. Its part of a larger dimension-traveling fortress called Tempest Keep that essentially teleports through alternate realities. It doesnt bank and roll or shoot proton torpedoes (not yet, anyway).
While we will be introducing a number of naaru technologies (like this ship, for instance), we're not planning on going hog-wild. Conceptual balance is everything. For those of you who are fearful of seeing jet-packs and laser pistols filling up the AH, never fear. If you did see them, theyd likely be goblin engineered and get your character killed anyway.
Hit #4: Blood Elves Sure Get Around
I also saw some strangeness about the apparent contradiction of how the blood elves could have sabotaged the draenei nether-ship since they're all holed up in QuelThalas. Remember, there are twisted blood elves in Outland who have been there since TFT campaign. It's those creepy elves who sabotaged the draeneis flight to Azeroth.
I'd love to elaborate on this further, but I'm afraid I'd spoil your appetites for dessert.
In conclusion, I just want to reiterate that we do take these continuity errors very seriously.
It's very important to me that you all feel you can trust us as developers and know that were out to build a world thats worthy of your time and your passion.
Thanks for bearing with me here. See y'all on the other side of the Portal!
Chris Metzen
5-12-06
Orignal Link: http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=26322
Was there something wrong with my question?
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Was there something wrong with my question?
Naaj, its okie Recant
It dont matter anyway
That's a good example, and answer to my question Battlekruse. And yet, one mistake doesn't make the lore completely 'f'd up'. There have always been conflicts in many mythologies, even the good ones.
You do understand that even Tolkien made mistakes with his lore and re-wrote parts of his mythology so that the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings didn't conflict?
TOLKIEN made mistakes.
The same is happening here. I don't see a big deal about it. Most of the lore is consistent, interesting and lends itself toward an interesting, yet refreshingly different mythology, with regards to humour and pop culture references.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Should have a most common come back by the WOW hater.
" It doesnt really have 8 million players and here is why...."
"The game will die in a year....trust me!"
"This game coming out next year is goign to stomp WOW and take all its customers!"
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
I'm just sayin......
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Why did you expect from a 16 year old kid?, something constructive /?