Do people think anymore or just go SoE bashing

hercules

Much like an old fashion dumb mob i am amazed how in last 2 years we started to get people here who lack the simple ability to reason thru things.

One of this is the SoE bashing.

Firstly,we had the SWG changes which is a joint venture of LA/SoE yet 99% of the post are directed against SoE .Where is LA in all this?I even seen some of this bashers kissing LA butt simply because they own star wars licence and the star wars geeks know that they are only source of a new SW mmorpg for them.

Then you have the vanguard issue.So many saying oh SoE ruined vanguard.Hello,SoE runs the CSR,billing,servers and publish it.The development of this game is purely sigil work.What do you want SoE to do?Print more nice looking boxes?Will that make the game better?

Give them more time?Have they not done it already after M$ wanted a summer 2006 release?Vanguard had ample development time.SoE bought them some more months but i am sure like any company they don't plan to give a blank cheque to any game .

Servers?What do you want them to do?The game engine is nowhere optimized .Not much you can do with servers when this happens.

Dreneth

SoE is responsible for the mess with SWG, just as it was with its own EQ2.  SoE has HORRIBLE customer service, and I can guarantee that they will manage to screw the pooch with Vanguard too.

I think before I bash SoE.  I think about all the issues I have had with them in the past as a former customer.  I will never purchase another SoE product again, and I will continue to recommend against it whenever I have the chance.

I played EQ2 from the first week of December 2004 until January 2006.  My issues:

- game released early - unfinished - to compete with WoW

- major adjustments to mob difficulty at least 3 different times

- class rebalancing with every update, usually screwing something up

- horrible server stability - zones crashed OFTEN for almost the entire time I was with EQ2

- combat system completely reworked halfway through my experience with EQ2, lots of unhappy players

- crafting system completely pooched

- horrible customer support, rarely a GM available when needed

- memory leak... game poorly coded for memory management, a 4 hour gaming session requires at least 2 reboots with an avarage PC rig (average for the time I played, and based on the observation of both myself and my guildies)

- glitches, bugs, exploits galore... in-game economy ruined

I could go on and on.  I have never experienced the level of issues with any other MMO that I have played.  SoE really does suck... it's not so much "bashing" as it is discussing real issues with a company that sees $$$ not players.

miagisan

i know what you mean..fortunately i am in the minority who thinks the majority of the NGE is LA's fault mostly. SOE is not the evil empire everyone thinks it is, my only real complaint uis that their csr's suck. And as for Vanguard, i blame the programmers for the poorly coded engine, which would be sigil. People are, as you said, in mob mentality. Majority of SOE games are pretty good, but people blindly hate SOE.

godpuppet

Originally posted by hercules


Much like an old fashion dumb mob i am amazed how in last 2 years we started to get people here who lack the simple ability to reason thru things.
One of this is the SoE bashing.
Firstly,we had the SWG changes which is a joint venture of LA/SoE yet 99% of the post are directed against SoE .Where is LA in all this?I even seen some of this bashers kissing LA butt simply because they own star wars licence and the star wars geeks know that they are only source of a new SW mmorpg for them.
Then you have the vanguard issue.So many saying oh SoE ruined vanguard.Hello,SoE runs the CSR,billing,servers and publish it.The development of this game is purely sigil work.What do you want SoE to do?Print more nice looking boxes?Will that make the game better?
Give them more time?Have they not done it already after M$ wanted a summer 2006 release?Vanguard had ample development time.SoE bought them some more months but i am sure like any company they don't plan to give a blank cheque to any game .
Servers?What do you want them to do?The game engine is nowhere optimized .Not much you can do with servers when this happens.

ahem... To identify two of your points...



LA has been labeled as a cause to the NGE, the issue has been discussed and rediscussed. But at the end of the day Sony is responsible for making those changes, more time and effort could have been made to further ensure the NGE was smooth and that the games features met the players demands. Instead what you had was a stealth patch which durastically changed the nature of a game, changed peoples classes and further more, they did it without announcing its full changes and did it just before the pre-orders for obi wan expansions.



As for Vanguard, I dont seem to read many threads regarding SoE, people however still feel negativity towards SoE due to their actions prior, and so they should. Just becuase time has progressed, we have no reason to avoid being weary and cautious of their actions. it was due to that caution that many avoided wasting (IMO) money on Vanguard. But as you say, Sigil are responsible for the problems...



Categorizing people as "Haters" and then making a general opinion on the actions of a few can be deemed as ignorant. People dislike SoE for different reasons, and as you say, some are less justified then others. Please take that into consideration that not everyone makes rash judgements based on indecisive facts.

hercules

Originally posted by Dreneth


SoE is responsible for the mess with SWG, just as it was with its own EQ2.  SoE has HORRIBLE customer service, and I can guarantee that they will manage to screw the pooch with Vanguard too.
I think before I bash SoE.  I think about all the issues I have had with them in the past as a former customer.  I will never purchase another SoE product again, and I will continue to recommend against it whenever I have the chance.

Explain this EQ2 mess?Considering it is one of the highest rated mmorpg around and has a healthy population(please do not drag wow numbers in this as that game is way ahead in numbers of all the rest!)

CaesarsGhost

Originally posted by hercules

Then you have the vanguard issue.So many saying oh SoE ruined vanguard.Hello,SoE runs the CSR,billing,servers and publish it.The development of this game is purely sigil work.What do you want SoE to do?Print more nice looking boxes?Will that make the game better?
Give them more time?Have they not done it already after M$ wanted a summer 2006 release?Vanguard had ample development time.SoE bought them some more months but i am sure like any company they don't plan to give a blank cheque to any game .
Servers?What do you want them to do?The game engine is nowhere optimized .Not much you can do with servers when this happens.

Actually I have much hope that SOE will take Sigil out of the equation and fix Vanguard.  I really really hope SOE kicks Brad in the nuts and takes the game into their own hands, they'd do a much better job.

godpuppet

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

Originally posted by hercules

Then you have the vanguard issue.So many saying oh SoE ruined vanguard.Hello,SoE runs the CSR,billing,servers and publish it.The development of this game is purely sigil work.What do you want SoE to do?Print more nice looking boxes?Will that make the game better?
Give them more time?Have they not done it already after M$ wanted a summer 2006 release?Vanguard had ample development time.SoE bought them some more months but i am sure like any company they don't plan to give a blank cheque to any game .
Servers?What do you want them to do?The game engine is nowhere optimized .Not much you can do with servers when this happens.

Actually I have much hope that SOE will take Sigil out of the equation and fix Vanguard.  I really really hope SOE kicks Brad in the nuts and takes the game into their own hands, they'd do a much better job. Thats probably not far from Smedlys thinking either.

Dreneth

Originally posted by hercules



Explain this EQ2 mess?Considering it is one of the highest rated mmorpg around and has a healthy population(please do not drag wow numbers in this as that game is way ahead in numbers of all the rest!)

Of course it has a healthy population... SoE merges servers to hide dwindling numbers.  I saw it twice before I left.  As for the ratings... I never trust them.  Hype sells crap to stupid people, and I would rather not be one of those people.

Samuraisword

There still seem to be people willing to make excuses for SOE's past actions. They are the ones that don't think.

When Smedley ridicules the players who were alienated by the SWG changes, and SOE again and again keeps changing fundamental design aspects of every game they are involved with after gamers have bought a product and invested time in a product based on it's original design, that should be clear indication to anyone with any sense to stay away from their products.

elvenangel

Originally posted by Dreneth


SoE is responsible for the mess with SWG, just as it was with its own EQ2.  SoE has HORRIBLE customer service, and I can guarantee that they will manage to screw the pooch with Vanguard too.
I think before I bash SoE.  I think about all the issues I have had with them in the past as a former customer.  I will never purchase another SoE product again, and I will continue to recommend against it whenever I have the chance.
I played EQ2 from the first week of December 2004 until January 2006.  My issues:
- game released early - unfinished - to compete with WoW
Uh..I played EQ 2 during Beta and release and for quite a whiel after...The game was not unfinished, it did have issues but nothing out of the ordinary atleast in my opinion.   Infact it was WOW that changed THEIR release date to release in time with EQ2 not the other way around.
- major adjustments to mob difficulty at least 3 different times
They needed these changes!  EQ2 was so hard that you couldn't even solo a meager crap quest.    They finally got it right when they went with much more simple system for mob difficulty.    This isn't out of the ordinary  WOW has done this alot too you know.
- class rebalancing with every update, usually screwing something up
Again normal to MMOs ... Balancing is never perfect and when they added pvp in it just glorfied imbalance issues since the game was made for grouping not pvping.
- horrible server stability - zones crashed OFTEN for almost the entire time I was with EQ2
I've never had this happen maybe this was something that started after the first expansion I stopped playing for a brief time after that, then came back for a while (played myself out )
- combat system completely reworked halfway through my experience with EQ2, lots of unhappy players
all the people i know that still play have no complaint with the combat system changes.   I think this comment is more your opinion than anything.
- crafting system completely pooched
their crafting system was overly complicated and produced alot of waste right from the start.  I heard they've wow'fied it to a simplistic manner now.    Im not sure if that's really pooching it or not I prefer a system where i dont have to spend 3 housr to make 1 stack of soups
- horrible customer support, rarely a GM available when needed
I've not played any MMO since EQ1 where GM's were actually available to talk in person, ive never spoken live to a wow one or a EQ2 one so...well come on seriously *eye roll*.    So this doesn't make it horrible customer support, though large droves of people here seem to hate their CS i'm started to wonder why they need to rely on a bunch of people with al ittle black book infront of them fo rhelp if they're gamers.    
- memory leak... game poorly coded for memory management, a 4 hour gaming session requires at least 2 reboots with an avarage PC rig (average for the time I played, and based on the observation of both myself and my guildies) 
Whats your version of average at the time of EQ2 release?  At eq2's launch I had slightly less than average and I never had to reboot like that The game did how ever play like crap because my system was crap they leaned to much on the high / fantasy computer end then they should have.
- glitches, bugs, exploits galore... in-game economy ruined
...completely normal for MMOS....Point to a game that doesn't have these problems..and yes WOW has these too i played both games at launch (and no consquenetly i play neither).
I could go on and on.  I have never experienced the level of issues with any other MMO that I have played.  SoE really does suck... it's not so much "bashing" as it is discussing real issues with a company that sees $$$ not players.

 

I have no issues with SOE though i do wonder what crack their devs are smoking when they launch stuff.

Zarraa

 

While SOE has employed shaddy tactics at times, I'll bet half of those lambasting them are mere bandwagon jumpers. Same thing with WOW & Vanguard haters. Allot of people haven't even bothered to play those games yet are more than willing to latch on to others thoughts.

It seems many prefer to follow and can't be bothered to attempt independent thought.

arctarus

Well, it takes both hands to clap. i think both soe and the dev should shoulder some blame each when a game fail, but as soe is mostly the 1 that controls the money, they will be blame more...

Dreneth

I can only say that I am amazed people are actually defending SoE.

I think you work for them. 

goneglockin

I'm mostly pissed off because I watched them completely bail on PlanetSide.  I think the only thing stopping me from walking into their server farm and smashing everything with a lead pipe is the very real threat of jail time and restitution.  I hate them that much. 

seabass2003

Originally posted by hercules

Originally posted by Dreneth


SoE is responsible for the mess with SWG, just as it was with its own EQ2.  SoE has HORRIBLE customer service, and I can guarantee that they will manage to screw the pooch with Vanguard too.
I think before I bash SoE.  I think about all the issues I have had with them in the past as a former customer.  I will never purchase another SoE product again, and I will continue to recommend against it whenever I have the chance.

Explain this EQ2 mess?Considering it is one of the highest rated mmorpg around and has a healthy population(please do not drag wow numbers in this as that game is way ahead in numbers of all the rest!)

I would have to say that EQ2 WAS definatly a huge mess and a complete blunder when it first released. Having said that SOE really stuck with that game and really worked hard on it to make it the good game that it is now. Although it did take close to 2 years before EQ2 became the nicely polished game that it is. Imagine if SOE had launched EQ2 as it is now, it would be way bigger than it is.

So I really have neither a good or bad opinion of SOE, but I do alot of extra research on their MMO's because of the unfinished releases they always seem to have.

It's early for me I hope this made some sense.

Adythiel

My disdain for SOE goes back to Everquest when they removed Verant from development and began bringing out expansions such as Scars of Velious and Luclin.



Did you know that the Scars of Velious was the beginning of the faction grind? Between the dwarves, the dragons and the giants, it was a nightmare to get the quest armor.

Deathstrike2

People saying SOE ruined Vanguard are really out there.  If it wasn't for SOE bailing Sigil's sorry broke butts out, there'd be no Vanguard.  SOE saved Vanguard from the scrap heap.

SOE has become a fall guy company for all the players to blame when their MMO fails.  Take Gods and Heroes as an example.  If it does well, SOE will get no credit.  If it flops, they'll get the blame.  Mark my words...

 

elvenangel

Originally posted by Dreneth


I can only say that I am amazed people are actually defending SoE.
I think you work for them. 

I'm not defending anyone I'm merely saying you people spout crap which half the time isn't even true or you blame it on SOE when its your crap system or your crap connection but your too lazy to figure it out.   I certaintly don't work for SOE I think i'd rather lob my own arm off then work on an MMO.

You all complain oh they just want your money but you know what?   thats what EVERY game company is like even Blizz don't fool yourselves companies are out to make money when it all reaches the end of the day.  Its not the happy go friendly 80s game world where they were making stuff to have fun, certainly the designers and the programmers want their stuff to be fun but big brother wants your money.   Thats what happens when corporations get involved to mass distribute things.

If you want to cry about injustice you should cry and lash out at the companies that Rinse and REpeat buy and sell Horizons, all the 'mishaps' and 'accidental overchargings' killed that game.  If SOE was such a shite company no one would play their games.

Dreneth

Originally posted by seabass2003


I would have to say that EQ2 WAS definatly a huge mess and a complete blunder when it first released. Having said that SOE really stuck with that game and really worked hard on it to make it the good game that it is now. Although it did take close to 2 years before EQ2 became the nicely polished game that it is. Imagine if SOE had launched EQ2 as it is now, it would be way bigger than it is.
So I really have neither a good or bad opinion of SOE, but I do alot of extra research on their MMO's because of the unfinished releases they always seem to have.
It's early for me I hope this made some sense.

See, I found the challenge at launch for EQ2 to be excellent, it was difficult but fun.  You actually had to pay attention.  The server stablity was the main issue.  Zones and their instances crashed rather often... especially TS... ooooh... the agony!

elvenangel

Originally posted by Adythiel

My disdain for SOE goes back to Everquest when they removed Verant from development and began bringing out expansions such as Scars of Velious and Luclin.



Did you know that the Scars of Velious was the beginning of the faction grind? Between the dwarves, the dragons and the giants, it was a nightmare to get the quest armor.

 

They didn't 'remove' Verant.  Verant sold their company to SOE and their employees were merged into the company.   Verant was a small company like Sigil is and they couldn't handle the load.  SOE seeing a chance to get into the MMO market sweeped in and saved the game from going to the wayside.   Actually the buying of Verant sort of started SOE.

RabbitFly

Well thruthfully I do believe SOE has taken more shit than they deserve, but they also deserve their fair share.

First off, swg went down the drain because of SOE. LucasArts had the final say in yay or nay, but were as far as I know never the main game designers, at least the point where everything really went down the drain was were SOE took the reins over more than before.

However I think the claim to bad support is extremely wrong. Yes GMs aren't exactly a dime a dusin in that game, and CS tickets take awfully long to get cleared up and more often than not you get a generic answer that doesn't help you at all. But SOE does have by far the best account customer service of any mmo company out there. The live chat function is extremely good and I have never had a problem with my account for lone exactly due to this. Live chat support should really be part of any mmo account management. As for gms and cs tickets I have yet to see any game where that really work very well, except in beta's where gms are always around and always helpful.

Dreneth

Originally posted by elvenangel


I'm not defending anyone I'm merely saying you people spout crap which half the time isn't even true or you blame it on SOE when its your crap system or your crap connection but your too lazy to figure it out.   I certaintly don't work for SOE I think i'd rather lob my own arm off then work on an MMO.
You all complain oh they just want your money but you know what?   thats what EVERY game company is like even Blizz don't fool yourselves companies are out to make money when it all reaches the end of the day.  Its not the happy go friendly 80s game world where they were making stuff to have fun, certainly the designers and the programmers want their stuff to be fun but big brother wants your money.   Thats what happens when corporations get involved to mass distribute things.
If you want to cry about injustice you should cry and lash out at the companies that Rinse and REpeat buy and sell Horizons, all the 'mishaps' and 'accidental overchargings' killed that game.  If SOE was such a shite company no one would play their games.

I'm certainly not lying about my experiences with the EQ2 or SoE in general, nor am I technologically impared.  My PC met the recommended system requirements to the letter, and I never suffered latency issues from my broadband connection.  Everything I posted about can be found on the EQ2 forums.

I'm not crying about injustice, I am discussing horrible business practices and poor service and support.  SoE is a shite company with plenty of marketing dollars.  Look at Walmart... nobody cares that the largest class action lawsuit in the history of the world is currently pending against them for equal rights violations when that stupid little smiley face is whistling.

Don't be an ass.

Xzen

It is sad but true. Most people do not think for them selves these days.

Dreneth

Originally posted by Xzen

It is sad but true. Most people do not think for them selves these days.

I agree 100%

Knightblast

The thing that shocked me the most about SOE is what they did with SWG.  That was just ... outrageously unfair to the players of the game.  SOE lost so much credibility in my eyes after that (and no, I was not personally impacted by it as I was not playing SWG at the time), that it's really hard for me to view them objectively.  Now that doesn't mean EQ2 is a bad game because it is published by SOE, but EQ2 can be a good game and you can still be suspicious of SOE at the same time.

Wizardry

 

 

Originally posted by Dreneth


SoE is responsible for the mess with SWG, just as it was with its own EQ2.  SoE has HORRIBLE customer service, and I can guarantee that they will manage to screw the pooch with Vanguard too.
I think before I bash SoE.  I think about all the issues I have had with them in the past as a former customer.  I will never purchase another SoE product again, and I will continue to recommend against it whenever I have the chance.
I played EQ2 from the first week of December 2004 until January 2006.  My issues:
- game released early - unfinished - to compete with WoW
- major adjustments to mob difficulty at least 3 different times
- class rebalancing with every update, usually screwing something up
- horrible server stability - zones crashed OFTEN for almost the entire time I was with EQ2
- combat system completely reworked halfway through my experience with EQ2, lots of unhappy players
- crafting system completely pooched
- horrible customer support, rarely a GM available when needed
- memory leak... game poorly coded for memory management, a 4 hour gaming session requires at least 2 reboots with an avarage PC rig (average for the time I played, and based on the observation of both myself and my guildies)
- glitches, bugs, exploits galore... in-game economy ruined
I could go on and on.  I have never experienced the level of issues with any other MMO that I have played.  SoE really does suck... it's not so much "bashing" as it is discussing real issues with a company that sees $$$ not players.

 

Well it just happens i played EQ2 myself for 2 years and see it ALL totally different than you did.I am very picky to everything that goes on in a game so i notice just about everything that goes on around me.

The release date was actually a christams thing and WOW was actually the game that pushed forward to beat EQ2 to the table.

Mob adjustments? so what is your point?every single game ever made does this ,at least on PC as concoles cannot do this.It's cal;led tweaking the battle system,i would EXPECT each and every game to do so.

Class rebalancing? yes again i would expect any game with half a care to do this.Often screwing it up is of course your own opinion.I saw the same type people bashing vanguard when there much overpowered calsses i nthat game were nerfed.I think this really shows alot about  a gamers character,in that they want everything easy ,not challenging at all.

Not once in my MANY hours over 2 years did i experience a zone crash.I would think this was isolated occurences on certain servers most likely brought about by DUPERS/CHEATS.We are/were playing on the same game engine so you figure it out.

Combat system was reworked ?not sure exactly what you mean.The worse case scenario i remebred was noob WOW type gamers filling out the eekly petitions crying about shard runs and they don't like death.Is this one of the changes you talk about because YES i did'nt like it but guess what ,that's called listening to your MAJORITY of players.

Crafting pooched?again i am assuming you mean made easier?Again this was because all the whiners who cry about having to make hundreds of the same craft over and over,when really they again just wanterd everything easy and fast.Guess what this is again because of the MANY petitions SOE put out every week to see what the gamers wanted.So blame your fellow gamers not SOE.

Hoorible GM support? compared to what game that gives a good one?as a matter of fact i had to get GM support a few times and i had no problems what so ever.I got some dude named "ROBERT" who just so happened to be a bigshot that also handled there online forums ,so he was really overworked and a very busy GM,but i was stil lable to get a hold of him and he spent alot of time solving my issues.At least i know they were there,some games i have played the GM NEVER shows"LINEAGE2 is one".

Memory leaks?guess what i leave my PC on sometimes for several weeks before a reboot and i played this game for 2 yrs.That is just hearsay rumours people talk about.There is/was bugs in the system to wich i don't/didn't  like ,but they are more to do with mobs stuck underground/inside walls.Aggro through walls that sorta thing i didn't like.Some mobs would become bugged too,but it wasn't bad or often enough to ruin my gaming experience.

Economy ruined?i agree 100%,you are blaming SOE for this? rflmao think about it.This again you can blame your fellow gamers for  that NOT SOE.As a matter of fact i am sure you are aware of there servers they run that allow virtual sales?Soe is the ONLY game to ever do this while still running servers that DON'T allow it.They were at least attempting to filter the cheats away from servers/players that didn't want it.If you want to take it even one step further,there year end analysis of the player IP's revealed that the majority of cheats were AMERICANS from pennsyvania and california,so blame your fellow american friends if you like ,nothing to do with SOE whatsoever.

I think after what i just told you SOE has shown the HIGHEST reguard towards the gamer and totally shows all others that refute it are either biased or don't like a challenge in there game,they want it easy like "WOW "players do.You can specualate about a games reguard towards players but in fact name one that beats SOE?99% of the games on the market do NOTHING to interact wit hthe player base.only recently we are seeing BRAD interact with the public and taking TONS of heat for doing so.This again shows people DON"t want interaction with devs they are more about fanbois bashing games with false info.