Withouth posting warning mmorpg.com has knowingly endangered portion of their users.
Anyone who has entered this site from computer withouth AV, and with IE was infected. They know about it. Yet they decided to keep it quiet.
If it would compared to legal , and life experience , it would be same as
Person having sex with the woman that has HIV. She never tells him. But when heu finds out, she says that she is battling it , and that she got it because she was raped by thug.
Was this legally and morraly right ? No. She would be prosecuted , for endangering life of another person. Even though she was victim.
Back to mmorpg.com
At least 1% of site visitors were knowingly infected with keylogger trojan. And they were not warned.
And although the trojan attacked mmorpg.com site , it was targeted at users of this site.
If admins didnt manage to destroy the virus. They should have closed the site to prevent their users getting infected.
Ok , so they didnt want to lose 1 day worth of advertisment money....
But a warning is the least thing they could do. Yet they decided for silence.
And if they posted a warning?????? Where is the logic in that, you would still be infected. As the admin said they would have had to post a "Hey you might be infected". You chose to come to this site, they did not invite you here and kudos to MMORPG.com for a quick resolve to their problem.
Hmm there is a problem that not everyone comes to the forums, so people who don't come to the forums may not be aware of it. I'm not sure how dangerous the trojan is though.
Hmm there is a problem that not everyone comes to the forums, so people who don't come to the forums may not be aware of it. I'm not sure how dangerous the trojan is though.
Not come to the forums..... MMORPG.com is all about the forums..... no point in being here otherwise...the rest is just filler
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hello everyone, I am very sorry about our handling of this. To be honest it really caught us by suprise and in retrospect I do agree we should have posted a warning about this and/or shutoff the web site completely. Most of today we thought we were finding solutions to the problem when in fact we were not...and it kept coming back. Apparently someone in Korea really had it out for us and had their hooks deeper into our machines than we realized. You might have noticed that our site was down for over 5 hours earlier today - this was when we realized we were not winning this battle and needed drastic measures to counter the threat. We have taken these measures and we are fairly confident that it will not happen again (3 hours since updates and still clean - *crossing fingers*) During this time we were doing what we thought was our best to stop this attack and we probably removed it from our code over 30 different times, I agree we could have helped by posting a notice, but honestly it would have pretty much been a notice to let you know you were just infected if you were running IE with no anti-virus protection - because in this case it got you on the first page. I apologize for any mistakes we made here - but please don't fail to recognize that none of this would have happened if a) some evil bastard did not make this virus and hijack our site and b) Microsoft did not leave a giant exploitable hole in their codebase for .ANI files (also note there should be a Windows Update to fix this very, very soon from Microsoft). Rattrap: We did not try to hide from this at all, I located every thread I could find in the past 2 days and answered people's questions the best I could and explained what we were trying to do to stop it. Both Meddle (Ben) and I made every effort to "firefight" this mess from the moment we discovered it and we never left our servers infected when we knew they were. When we realized we could not stop the attacks we DID shut the site down and took drastic measures to try and block it. I don't think we did the best we could have and countering this threat, but we did ACT and our motives were not greed as you implied in your message...
It's because this site was revealing their games to be the worthless grindfests they really are. Lol@Korea
Hello everyone, I am very sorry about our handling of this. To be honest it really caught us by suprise and in retrospect I do agree we should have posted a warning about this and/or shutoff the web site completely. Most of today we thought we were finding solutions to the problem when in fact we were not...and it kept coming back. Apparently someone in Korea really had it out for us and had their hooks deeper into our machines than we realized. You might have noticed that our site was down for over 5 hours earlier today - this was when we realized we were not winning this battle and needed drastic measures to counter the threat. We have taken these measures and we are fairly confident that it will not happen again (3 hours since updates and still clean - *crossing fingers*) During this time we were doing what we thought was our best to stop this attack and we probably removed it from our code over 30 different times, I agree we could have helped by posting a notice, but honestly it would have pretty much been a notice to let you know you were just infected if you were running IE with no anti-virus protection - because in this case it got you on the first page. I apologize for any mistakes we made here - but please don't fail to recognize that none of this would have happened if a) some evil bastard did not make this virus and hijack our site and b) Microsoft did not leave a giant exploitable hole in their codebase for .ANI files (also note there should be a Windows Update to fix this very, very soon from Microsoft). Rattrap: We did not try to hide from this at all, I located every thread I could find in the past 2 days and answered people's questions the best I could and explained what we were trying to do to stop it. Both Meddle (Ben) and I made every effort to "firefight" this mess from the moment we discovered it and we never left our servers infected when we knew they were. When we realized we could not stop the attacks we DID shut the site down and took drastic measures to try and block it. I don't think we did the best we could have and countering this threat, but we did ACT and our motives were not greed as you implied in your message...
You know what
MMORPG.COM i rest my case and appologise.
From reactions of the users on this forums it is quite obvious they are E-OK with being infected by keylogger trojans.
Hell they are even thankfull for it!?
So who the hell I am to complain? After all i use firefox, AV and firewall at all times ....
It is just ironic. People here. Actually reveling and being happy about this incident?
What are they saying? If you use IE without AV it is your own fault?
So if I would go to the butcher , buy a stake. Eat it and get infected by uncurable salmonela. It serves me well because i eat meat ?
Would you not think , this stake should not have been infected in first place, and that butcher should not sell infected meat?
Now it is e-OK to surf web and get viruses from completely legitimate sites?
Wait until google and gamespot hear about this! Perhaps it is new trend! Users want to be infected...well at least it seems so from people replyng to this forum.
All in all. I didnt get infected.So i join the bandwagon with other users that just do not care
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Funny how many people will blame IE for viruses. I use IE and not once have I ever had any problems getting a virus. Firefox on the other hand, I have gotten one. Luckily my Anti-virus(McAfee-the best one in my opinion), caught it as I opened the page. And for all of you that don't know what a trojan can do, I'll tell you some of what they can do. They can destroy your cpu, harddrive and memory. Not to mention files ect, ect, ect. Of course some play other parts in what they do. There are several and I mean several types of trojans. The point is, all trojans are dangerous. And any site that does not tell you when it happens is at fault no matter the reason. I'm glad they took the site down when they knew they were losing. But next time, some notice about it would be appreciated. Other sites that have had this similiar problem have let all of thier users know what was going on. One more thing, if people use decent anti-virus software, they hardly deserve getting a virus. The twit that said that, i hope you get ransacked by a dozen trojans.
Funny how many people will blame IE for viruses. I use IE and not once have I ever had any problems getting a virus. Firefox on the other hand, I have gotten one. Luckily my Anti-virus(McAfee-the best one in my opinion), caught it as I opened the page. And for all of you that don't know what a trojan can do, I'll tell you some of what they can do. They can destroy your cpu, harddrive and memory. Not to mention files ect, ect, ect. Of course some play other parts in what they do. There are several and I mean several types of trojans. The point is, all trojans are dangerous. And any site that does not tell you when it happens is at fault no matter the reason. I'm glad they took the site down when they knew they were losing. But next time, some notice about it would be appreciated. Other sites that have had this similiar problem have let all of thier users know what was going on. One more thing, if people use decent anti-virus software, they hardly deserve getting a virus. The twit that said that, i hope you get ransacked by a dozen trojans.
It is true that you can't blame IE for viruses. After all, Microsoft isn't trying to put a trojan on our computers, riiiggghhhtt? Phew, glad I use Firefox. Anyway, the problem is that IE is used by a lot of people and it is easily exploited by viruses. Microsoft even knows this is true, that's why they release service packs and ways of combating viruses.
Yes, in this day and age if you don't have any anti-virus software on your computer and you are connected to the internet then you are just asking for trouble. I think that is what the person up above that you responded to had mentioned. That if you don't have anti-virus software on your computer then you deserve what you get or something along those lines. Updates, firewalls, anti-virus software and a safer browser are just some steps to staying informed. Is ignorance an excuse? I don't think that it is legally and so you might be held accountable for not protecting your computer.
I agree that there should have been some announcement and it seems that the staff agrees as well, so I think that can be laid to rest. I certainly wouldn't be happy if my computer had been hit by this attack, but I certainly would be more informed as to what I should be doing to protect my computer in the future. I know that MMORPG.COM is not responsible for protecting my computer from the internet.
Should MMORPG.com be accountable for any damage done to other people's computers? No, but they should accept responsiblity because it is their fault. No matter how you want to twist it, they knew about this long before we heard any word from them about it and they didn't make a statement until users started noticing. This left anyone who may have been infected no way of knowing it, thus leaving them vulnerable. Now you can say it is the users fault for not protecting their computer, but that doesn't excuse MMORPG.com for keeping quiet on the whole thing.
It would be like Taco Bell continuing to sell food knowing it was contaminated with e-coli. Now I know this website is a free and public forum of exchange, but that makes them even more responsible for their user base. You have so many people from so many walks of life visiting, not everyone is going to be computer literate enough to know what's going on with their computer.
As a professional website if they don't take responsibilty for such a stupid mistake, it could really tarnish their image.
You make it sound as though they maliciously withheld information. Sheesh, they admitted that they should have given notice. They admitted they were fighting the attacks. They admitted that they should have handled the situation better. Let it go. Repeating the same thing over and over again in the same thread isn't going to make the past rewrite itself. What do you want from them? The promise that they will give you their newborn baby if it happens again? I swear if you let go of the grudge you will feel better. Really.
How about taking the blame to the source. How about helping to inform other people what they need to do to keep their computers safe at night from the big bad internet. Yes, next time this happens they should inform people right away. There are no guarantees the lesson is learned, but it is out there and we can only hope.
Oh, as for the Taco Bell analogy, as far as I know no little children were killed during this malicious trojan attack. If there had been then I'm certain that the authorities would be all over this site.
So if I would go to the butcher , buy a stake. Eat it and get infected by uncurable salmonela. It serves me well because i eat meat ?
Would you not think , this stake should not have been infected in first place, and that butcher should not sell infected meat?
It's not an good idea to eat an raw steak.
The steak just needs to get an surface temperature of 75 celcius, and you'll only have bacterial spores left.
Well there you go
Either go to a good butcher, buy a salmonela free steak and enjoy it medium rare - as god intended it to be.
or
Turn it into a piece of coal , cause you can not trust your butcher
Do you know what you're talking about, at all?
Bacteries are everywhere. The so-called "good butcher" can't be sure that his meat isn't a salmonella bomb unless he runs an lab test, or heats it up to 75 celcius(And quickly gets it temperature back to under 10 celcius - Bacteries enjoys a temperatur of 20-40 celcius). Even then, there will still be bacterial spores on the meat. You can't kill those without heating it up to 120-140 celcius. Freezing the meat down doesn't kill bacteries either, it just slows down their system(So it might take 3 hours for the bacteries to multiply, instead of the 20 minutes).
A good butcher can only make sure that the bacteries doesn't have optimal conditions for growth, he cannot be sure that his meat is totally clean of bacteries(Not that it ever would be).
It's not a matter of "trust". The way you handle, keep, prepare your food is cruical too. If you belive a surface temperature of 75 celcius makes your meat into coal, then you should read up on cooking. It's easy to grill a steak, achive 75 celcius on the surface, and still have red delicious meat inside.
Yes i know it's stupid for me to use internet without anti virus but my subscription is gone and i have no cc so i don't know what one to use that is free or if i should just go to a store a buy one oh well if i get infected i just won't use any cc on this system again
Guys -- noone should ever use MSIE. I havent used it in years, and no, FFX doesnt have the same issues as MSIE -- at least not to date.
That does not negate the responsibility MMORPG.com has to prevent their users from having their PC's infected by a virus they know is there. They should have taken the site offline.
If I get fired... I will persue legal action.
Good luck with that.
There isnt any legal duty of a free site in any respect, so you're swimming upstream legally (yes, I am a lawyer) -- if you can't prove a duty of care (and there isn't one here), there isn't any hat to hang liability on.
Uh.. I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps he could use-
"res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet" - Someone has this as their sig.
Due to negligence... Byron v. Boadle(?)... Couldn't something like that be used?
That being said, I'll be mighty surprised if there isn't a Site Disclaimer, you probably agreed to when you created your login, that doesn't cover this type of incident.
It's me again may someone please tell me if it's not a problem where i can find a free virus scan that i can check my system..
I've tried a few but i will scan and find something i go and delete i need to buy the program to delete which is such a tease to me but if any help i will be grateful Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.
It's me again may someone please tell me if it's not a problem where i can find a free virus scan that i can check my system..
I've tried a few but i will scan and find something i go and delete i need to buy the program to delete which is such a tease to me but if any help i will be grateful Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.
It's me again may someone please tell me if it's not a problem where i can find a free virus scan that i can check my system..
I've tried a few but i will scan and find something i go and delete i need to buy the program to delete which is such a tease to me but if any help i will be grateful Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.
I agree. You don't want to use Norton or McAffee. They utilize too much of your systems resources. It's also a pain in the $%^ to uninstall because it imbeds itself into everything in your machine.
It's me again may someone please tell me if it's not a problem where i can find a free virus scan that i can check my system..
I've tried a few but i will scan and find something i go and delete i need to buy the program to delete which is such a tease to me but if any help i will be grateful Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.
I agree. You don't want to use Norton or McAffee. They utilize too much of your systems resources. It's also a pain in the $%^ to uninstall because it imbeds itself into everything in your machine.
Heh, McAffee is a pain. Norton should be classified as a virus
Comments
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy
I found it hard
It's hard to find
Oh Well
Whatever
Nevermind
Sorry for double post.
And to reiterate my statement, instead of them wasting time warning you, they were working there asses off trying to fix the problem.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy
I found it hard
It's hard to find
Oh Well
Whatever
Nevermind
Hmm there is a problem that not everyone comes to the forums, so people who don't come to the forums may not be aware of it. I'm not sure how dangerous the trojan is though.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's because this site was revealing their games to be the worthless grindfests they really are. Lol@Korea
It's like running into rush hour traffic wearing a blindfold. Your only going to get away with it for a while then Kasplat
Both Firefox and AVG are free.
Opera is even safer than Firefox though not just as friendly to use.
MMORPG.COM i rest my case and appologise.
From reactions of the users on this forums it is quite obvious they are E-OK with being infected by keylogger trojans.
Hell they are even thankfull for it!?
So who the hell I am to complain? After all i use firefox, AV and firewall at all times ....
It is just ironic. People here. Actually reveling and being happy about this incident?
What are they saying? If you use IE without AV it is your own fault?
So if I would go to the butcher , buy a stake. Eat it and get infected by uncurable salmonela. It serves me well because i eat meat ?
Would you not think , this stake should not have been infected in first place, and that butcher should not sell infected meat?
Now it is e-OK to surf web and get viruses from completely legitimate sites?
Wait until google and gamespot hear about this! Perhaps it is new trend! Users want to be infected...well at least it seems so from people replyng to this forum.
All in all. I didnt get infected.So i join the bandwagon with other users that just do not care
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
The steak just needs to get an surface temperature of 75 celcius, and you'll only have bacterial spores left.
The steak just needs to get an surface temperature of 75 celcius, and you'll only have bacterial spores left.
I wonder how many people know that without having HEARD IT SOMEWHERE.
- - - -
Support Independent Game Developers
The steak just needs to get an surface temperature of 75 celcius, and you'll only have bacterial spores left.
Well there you go
Either go to a good butcher, buy a salmonela free steak and enjoy it medium rare - as god intended it to be.
or
Turn it into a piece of coal , cause you can not trust your butcher
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Yes, in this day and age if you don't have any anti-virus software on your computer and you are connected to the internet then you are just asking for trouble. I think that is what the person up above that you responded to had mentioned. That if you don't have anti-virus software on your computer then you deserve what you get or something along those lines. Updates, firewalls, anti-virus software and a safer browser are just some steps to staying informed. Is ignorance an excuse? I don't think that it is legally and so you might be held accountable for not protecting your computer.
I agree that there should have been some announcement and it seems that the staff agrees as well, so I think that can be laid to rest. I certainly wouldn't be happy if my computer had been hit by this attack, but I certainly would be more informed as to what I should be doing to protect my computer in the future. I know that MMORPG.COM is not responsible for protecting my computer from the internet.
My 2 cents
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/123665
Of course not... however... they are responsible for preventing themselves from knowingly spreading a virus to their users.
- - - -
Support Independent Game Developers
Should MMORPG.com be accountable for any damage done to other people's computers? No, but they should accept responsiblity because it is their fault. No matter how you want to twist it, they knew about this long before we heard any word from them about it and they didn't make a statement until users started noticing. This left anyone who may have been infected no way of knowing it, thus leaving them vulnerable. Now you can say it is the users fault for not protecting their computer, but that doesn't excuse MMORPG.com for keeping quiet on the whole thing.
It would be like Taco Bell continuing to sell food knowing it was contaminated with e-coli. Now I know this website is a free and public forum of exchange, but that makes them even more responsible for their user base. You have so many people from so many walks of life visiting, not everyone is going to be computer literate enough to know what's going on with their computer.
As a professional website if they don't take responsibilty for such a stupid mistake, it could really tarnish their image.
How about taking the blame to the source. How about helping to inform other people what they need to do to keep their computers safe at night from the big bad internet. Yes, next time this happens they should inform people right away. There are no guarantees the lesson is learned, but it is out there and we can only hope.
Oh, as for the Taco Bell analogy, as far as I know no little children were killed during this malicious trojan attack. If there had been then I'm certain that the authorities would be all over this site.
The steak just needs to get an surface temperature of 75 celcius, and you'll only have bacterial spores left.
Well there you go
Either go to a good butcher, buy a salmonela free steak and enjoy it medium rare - as god intended it to be.
or
Turn it into a piece of coal , cause you can not trust your butcher
Do you know what you're talking about, at all?
Bacteries are everywhere. The so-called "good butcher" can't be sure that his meat isn't a salmonella bomb unless he runs an lab test, or heats it up to 75 celcius(And quickly gets it temperature back to under 10 celcius - Bacteries enjoys a temperatur of 20-40 celcius). Even then, there will still be bacterial spores on the meat. You can't kill those without heating it up to 120-140 celcius. Freezing the meat down doesn't kill bacteries either, it just slows down their system(So it might take 3 hours for the bacteries to multiply, instead of the 20 minutes).
A good butcher can only make sure that the bacteries doesn't have optimal conditions for growth, he cannot be sure that his meat is totally clean of bacteries(Not that it ever would be).
It's not a matter of "trust". The way you handle, keep, prepare your food is cruical too. If you belive a surface temperature of 75 celcius makes your meat into coal, then you should read up on cooking. It's easy to grill a steak, achive 75 celcius on the surface, and still have red delicious meat inside.
That does not negate the responsibility MMORPG.com has to prevent their users from having their PC's infected by a virus they know is there. They should have taken the site offline.
If I get fired... I will persue legal action.
Good luck with that.
There isnt any legal duty of a free site in any respect, so you're swimming upstream legally (yes, I am a lawyer) -- if you can't prove a duty of care (and there isn't one here), there isn't any hat to hang liability on.
Uh.. I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps he could use-
"res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet" - Someone has this as their sig.
Due to negligence... Byron v. Boadle(?)... Couldn't something like that be used?
That being said, I'll be mighty surprised if there isn't a Site Disclaimer, you probably agreed to when you created your login, that doesn't cover this type of incident.
Mado
I've tried a few but i will scan and find something i go and delete i need to buy the program to delete which is such a tease to me but if any help i will be grateful
www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
AVG is the best free one, in my opinion. Here's the download link: http://free.grisoft.com/doc/5390/lng/us/tpl/v5#avg-anti-virus-free
AVG is the best free one, in my opinion. Here's the download link: http://free.grisoft.com/doc/5390/lng/us/tpl/v5#avg-anti-virus-free
I agree. You don't want to use Norton or McAffee. They utilize too much of your systems resources. It's also a pain in the $%^ to uninstall because it imbeds itself into everything in your machine.
AVG is the best free one, in my opinion. Here's the download link: http://free.grisoft.com/doc/5390/lng/us/tpl/v5#avg-anti-virus-free
I agree. You don't want to use Norton or McAffee. They utilize too much of your systems resources. It's also a pain in the $%^ to uninstall because it imbeds itself into everything in your machine.
Heh, McAffee is a pain. Norton should be classified as a virus