for such a big IP why are they going with the static roll of the dice figthing???????? thats ancient and sucks.. theres absolutely no skills in it whatsoever !!! when will we see the day where hitting them actually means hitting them! when will mmo's start having god of war and other action games style that actually takes some dam skills... im really dissapointed. at least age of conan is trying it.... yould think that every new mmo would try actual "real" combat but nope same old shit. i understand that it could be a bandwidth problem but dam it work it out. i dont even understand how people can get a kick out of sitting there holding down a dam button while u eat a sandwich. wheres the skill? im a lvl 30 your 20 so... whats the point? we know whos going to win. this shit is stupid.
If by Skills you mean whoever has a faster reaction time, go ahead and play your AoC. Having skills shouldn't be about that, it should be about knowing your character, knowing your surroundings, and controling the battle using tactics and strategy. Have you ever played Guild Wars? That's skills. WAR goes way beyond that. Why can't it be about skills and knowledge?
I always love the whole skill discussion it's totally obsolete since there is no such thing as just "skill" you are always skilled at doing something particular not just skilled in general. You can say a game requires a broader range of different skills, but not it requires more "skill" and the more that range narrows the more important will each particular skill be to be competitive. Different games might require a different level of proficiency for a particular skill. BUT for everything you do you need atleast one of your skills since as humans not many things come to us naturally and we must learn everything we do.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." ~J. Krishnamurti
Originally posted by ricefarmer you saying god of war doesn't need skills? devil may cry? even lara croft???? please make some god dam sense.
i find it interesting that all the examples you gave are from console games. i think this is indicative of a larger problem.
let me see you got a sheild in WAR how do u block? uhhhh get hit and see if u get lucky and block it, that doesn't take any skills.
in AoC there IS skills!!! wtf u talkin about. you dodge, strafe left and right, jump backwards. and actually block with your shield...
sorry to burst your bubble, but in AoC the shield blocking is not player controlled.
anyhow, you love AoC so much? the beta just opened up, go get your name down. personally i like WAR for what it is, its just what i wanted since i quit WoW. you want "moar twitch!" then i suggest BF2142, its a good game.
If "real" combat is what your looking for go play a LARP (live action role playing game), actually look up your local Amtgard group grab a foam padded sword or another weapon and go prove your swordsmanship to that groups veterans.
for such a big IP why are they going with the static roll of the dice figthing???????? thats ancient and sucks.. theres absolutely no skills in it whatsoever !!! when will we see the day where hitting them actually means hitting them! when will mmo's start having god of war and other action games style that actually takes some dam skills... im really dissapointed. at least age of conan is trying it.... yould think that every new mmo would try actual "real" combat but nope same old shit. i understand that it could be a bandwidth problem but dam it work it out. i dont even understand how people can get a kick out of sitting there holding down a dam button while u eat a sandwich. wheres the skill? im a lvl 30 your 20 so... whats the point? we know whos going to win. this shit is stupid.
You have gained 0 troll points.
Have you ever played a tabletop Warhammer game? What do you have to do to attack.
Originally posted by ricefarmer for such a big IP why are they going with the static roll of the dice figthing???????? thats ancient and sucks.. theres absolutely no skills in it whatsoever !!! when will we see the day where hitting them actually means hitting them! when will mmo's start having god of war and other action games style that actually takes some dam skills... im really dissapointed. at least age of conan is trying it.... yould think that every new mmo would try actual "real" combat but nope same old shit. i understand that it could be a bandwidth problem but dam it work it out. i dont even understand how people can get a kick out of sitting there holding down a dam button while u eat a sandwich. wheres the skill? im a lvl 30 your 20 so... whats the point? we know whos going to win. this shit is stupid.
It's more about building your character and playing within the constraints of the game.
One could just as easily say to you: What's with this pc gaming crap? It too based on your computer speed and network connection, if you want to test your skills, you really need to go bare knuckle, toe-to-toe, in organized fighting events.
I realize you think you're hard core by saying that WAR is just another dice rolling game, but what you're missing is the concept of RPG's. You acquire gear, wealth, and other virtual properties, so you can continue to explore higher levels in the game. It's about progression, competition, and fun. If you find more action-based games to be fun, then perhaps RPG's aren't your thing. Or maybe you like hybrid action/RPG games that allow you to acquire level based gear but also require you to handle the players skills.
In any event, I believe WAR is firmly rooted in strategy and the luck of the roll, so it may not be your thing.
Obviously this guy has never actually played a Gameswork shop game. When did Games Workshop start making twitch action games??? Now having been a player of almost all of Games Workshop games since 1984 I personally can speak on this subject and can say that I have yet to play a single game by GW that was anything other then pure stratagy and DICE ROLLING. So go play Halo on XBox live you twit and leave the strategy games to those of us who love them.
By this guys logic, in order for Warhammer tabletop games to involve any sort of skill, each person would be armed with something like slingshots and just shoot pebbles at their opponent's army to knock them off the board. Full contact chess anyone? RPGs are almost exclusively dice rolling games. If you want twitch "skill" adventure games, then try solo games for the pc or console games like you've mentioned. I don't want to play MMOZelda.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
i must say the gap between FPS players and MMO/RPG/RTS players (many exceptions i can understand)is growing bigger and bigger. in this modern day and age the FPS are usually for the impatient people. much like the kids nowdays (comming from another kid ) and because the gap is getting bigger it means the games are becomming more and more varied and different. i personally see this as a godsend to gaming. this will mean you can pick up your favourite FPS and it will be completely different to your RTS (story, gameplay and tactics) i would love to see Warhammer keep its wonderful tabletop game, good looking MMO, its great RTS games and (maybe and hopefully) a FPS. this would give gamers that much needed extra info on the story, genre and world.
so to all those who prefer FPS over RTS or love board games and hate computer games then i hope you express your opinions and have them heard cus the only thing that comes out of this is damn good games
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
To be honest, a squad based FPS shooter version of Necromunda would be very cool. But, Warhammer fantasy is definately not a shooter.
Sure I want gameplay in an MMO that is more than run up to an opponent and spam skills till someone dies. But that is not WAR. WAR does have many innovations.
I personally adore what you call "static fighting". I don't know why, but somehow to me it feels more magical and interesting. And, well, it does require some skill, trust me. I trust everyone who's ever played any MMORPG has been in a terrible group where people only press buttons without really thinking what they're doing. Likewise, it's a true joy to be in a group with a nice tank, a nice healer and nice damage dealers. Real-time fighting is sure nice in some games, but why do you think it should be a neccessity for all the games there is? Why is it so difficult to comprehend that not all people are like you and tastes differ?
I cannot explain the sadness That's fallen on my breast. An old, old fable haunts me, And will not let me rest.
We dont want to here you flame and flame again. If you dont like it, then you dont like it, dont come here and start saying what sucks about this game.
Yeah, no criticisms or outside the box opinions allowed! That might actually influence the devs to think outside the box in the future, and we can’t have that. If we wanted a skill based game, we'd play chess....
Ah, it feels good to get that sarcasm out early in the day. Thanks for the opportunity to do so. The OP makes a very valid point.
The problem here is that you arent thinking far enough into the future. Games like Counter Strike or Battlefield are very daunting for the new player because they join and are completely out matched by people who are simply better than them. It becomes the case that the game caters to a few core elitist who are amazing at the game while scaring off all the new players (who well in contrast) suck. In an MMO how would you balance something like this and how would this be any more fun?
Players completely out matched from the get go due to slower connection speeds, reflexes, ping and play time. Also how do you expect to measure the way in which a player advances without some tier system. Warhammer Online has already opted to remove levels (so to speak) to be replaced with four bands. You cant please everybody whichever end result you choose. Its the reason not everybody enjoys FPS's or JRPG's or WRPG's, etc. There has to be a compromise between player skill (or reflex time in this case) and the base character stats otherwise your catering to a very small niche.
And not until recently has technology really been able to allow for the kind of gameplay many are demanding. Skill is a relative factor comming from a specific point of view. Knowing your class and which buttons to press when and why can be seen as skill by some while others only deem speed and reflex in aiming and firing as skill... so whose right? No one, just different approaches.
Originally posted by Shar Here's a simple fact - If you are playing a game with a combat system like WoW's and you have time to do other things during combat - You aren't fighting enough mobs at once. :P
I agree and let me take it a bit further,
If your fighting SOMEONE IN PVP and you have time to do other things during combat
YOUR DYING!!!
What is it about the AOC fans. Great you like AOC. I dont. I think it looks like a giant steaming PILE OF SHI. But hey, I wish the best to you guys. The hope the game is great and you wont see me knocking your game in YOUR FORUMS....so stay OUT OF OURS.
Oh and one more thing...Im tired of you AOC fans pointing to your combat system and acting like its the best thing since sliced bread. Great you push a button on the number pad and guess what, your charachter swings his sword a certain way and THE PROCESS IS STILL AUTOMATED. Whoop Dee Doo.
i thought the ultimate goal when bandwidth is unlimited speed and cpu power is not an issue is to have realistic fighting.... so you guys actually WANT static fighting wow!!! thats skills??? are u fuckin kidding me? and why the hell are u guys comparing CS an fps to any mmo?? thats a whole nother ball game, make some sense. WAR has skills?? ok lets sit there and attack/potion lets see who dies first .... yep revolutionary.
And since when do some of you consider action games not having skills over static fighting which we know doesn't have any skills?? you saying god of war doesn't need skills? devil may cry? even lara croft???? please make some god dam sense.
let me see you got a sheild in WAR how do u block? uhhhh get hit and see if u get lucky and block it, that doesn't take any skills.
in AoC there IS skills!!! wtf u talkin about. you dodge, strafe left and right, jump backwards. and actually block with your shield... how the hell can anybody be opposed to this is beyond me. what im sayin is WAR is an awesome IP and for a modern mmo it is a step backwards..
p.s. all you static statistic unrealistic fighters out there..... go play god of war statically and see how fun that game is? my point exactly
Actually you don't block with your shield in AoC. From the FAQ:
"2.9 Will there be dodging or blocking in the game? There is dodging, yes, but you dont actually hit a dodge or block button to prevent strikes from hitting you. These are character skills and whether or not you avoid hits are determined from calculations going on in the background. You will be able to step back though, and use the terrain to your advantage by running behind things and so on. It is very dynamic."
So you see, they have "boring static gameplay" as well. Just thought I'd clear this up, but I'm sure it's already been cleared up several times.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
WoW have already shown that static fighting dont work nicely....its the same all over...
How the %&¤*# can you make a MMO where you have to look away from the screen in a fight??? Down on the keys, or maybe if you are alitle "crazy"...you use mouse to puch toolbar.
C´mon we are not children learning to double click or senile 104 year old folk.....we can do it
The gaming industri thinks we cant
What your saying is pointless as WAR have decided to stick to what they know best.You REALLY dont have to follow it at all and Mythic really dont mind if you dont like there COMBAT System because there are plenty other games out there.
I shall use Paul Barneets words"We really DONT have to cater to the masses if you dont like WAR then GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE.
WAR IS COMING....
Ghost Squad...
I still get angry when they dont think we are capable of a real time combat system.
And i hate it......and i suck at it....but i wouldent ever play a "point and click" MMO.
I hate CS, i always loose..but i wouldent ever wanna see CS with WoW combat system..this is not about what i want..its about whats the right thing And its not about that i always wanna win..the better man deserves to win...and someday i will become the better man....i want to deserve my victorys by a fair fight...THATS what RPG is
Not the " he he im higher level and have better gear...so i win " whats the RPG in that??
No more shit combat system in MMO, and atleast we are beginning to see some new things in the future..AoC, Darkfall and Infinity
So I take it you feel that Chess, for example, is a game without player skill?
OMG chess is for noobs! Both factions have the same classes? WTF is up with that? And only six classes? Seriously, WTF? Even WoW has more than that! And the classes are totally unbalanced. We've been telling the devs for centuries that Queens need to be nerfed, and they just won't listen! I'm cancelling my subscription because my Pawn sucks in PvP.
The problem which always comes to light in these threads is that:
*for some people "skill" = real world reflexes and muscle control, as in "if I can manually aim at your head and click a button faster, then I have more skill than you do, and I should win"
*while for other people "skill" = deciding what you want your character to do in the game, and not having the say as to whether they will succeed at it or not.
The first position is a FPS/console position: it basically destroys the wall between the player and character, and makes the character the alter-ego of the player, and, as others have written, reduces game play to the leet players with skillz who have the faster reflexes, more time to hone certain conditioned fine motor muscle responses on the keyboard or controller and the like. It differentiates between success and failure based on the player's real world reflexes and fine motor muscle control.
The second position is an RPG position: it maintains the distinction between the character and the player in the way that RPGs have done since the days of PnP, namely by letting the player decide what he wants the character to do, but making the character's own skills and abilities determine whether the character succeeds at the desired course of action. This preserves the distinction between the character and player, and pits players against each other not on the level of reflexes and fine motor muscle control, but rather on the level of strategy and tacics: the issue isn't "can I do X faster and more accurately than my opponent", but rather "can I come up with a sequence of acts that will outsmart my opponent, or defeat him in an unexpected way before he can adjust or vice-versa".
The first position people are always complaining that "click a button combat requires no skill", when what they really mean is that they only see something as requiring skill if it tests real life reflexes and fine muscle motor control. The second position people acknowledge that FPS games require these reflex and muscle control skills, but see RPGs as not being properly about these things, and are very concerned to see them coming up in the RPG context.
My own opinion is that these 1337 reflexes and fine motor muscle control abilities that people have in the real world should not be what MMORPGs are testing -- MMORPGs, because they are RPGs, should be testing player's abilities to choose the right tactics and strategy quickly enough in a stressful situation, but always being subject to their chracter's ability to execute what the player ideally wants to happen. When we break that character/player distinction down as it relates to such a fundamental issue as to who determines the outcome of an action, we're no longer playing an RPG, but an action-adventure FPS with advancement characteristics, like Oblivion or Dark Messiah.
Whats it all comes around to is this: carebear or not.
Ask anyone on this site, and you can tell.
One month ago i didnt like the term carebear, i believed it was a term to devaulate a specific playstyle....now i know its just a tem for players that dont want to have to care as much when that play MMO.
I have many MMO friends that are proud of beeing a carebears. And that all hate any combat system that involve playerskill.
They all want point-click-wait static system.
So that is the carebear combat system. All should just agree and say "yes thats right you real-time freak"
i thought the ultimate goal when bandwidth is unlimited speed and cpu power is not an issue is to have realistic fighting.... so you guys actually WANT static fighting wow!!! thats skills??? are u fuckin kidding me? and why the hell are u guys comparing CS an fps to any mmo?? thats a whole nother ball game, make some sense. WAR has skills?? ok lets sit there and attack/potion lets see who dies first .... yep revolutionary.
And since when do some of you consider action games not having skills over static fighting which we know doesn't have any skills?? you saying god of war doesn't need skills? devil may cry? even lara croft???? please make some god dam sense.
let me see you got a sheild in WAR how do u block? uhhhh get hit and see if u get lucky and block it, that doesn't take any skills.
in AoC there IS skills!!! wtf u talkin about. you dodge, strafe left and right, jump backwards. and actually block with your shield... how the hell can anybody be opposed to this is beyond me. what im sayin is WAR is an awesome IP and for a modern mmo it is a step backwards..
p.s. all you static statistic unrealistic fighters out there..... go play god of war statically and see how fun that game is? my point exactly
The simple answer is DONT PLAY WAR PLAY AOC instead.Its really that simple to do as you have a choice in what game you play.Now me and i suspect many others are ok with the WAR combat system.
I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far.
WAR IS COMING....
Ghost Squad....
"I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far."
Who said so....you??
If you can't take someone bringing up a discussion point on the game, go to a website that is dedicated to WAR if you want to see only "dancing in the rain" type posts.
Seriously, the "you don't like it, leave" attitude gets really old. People think the forums here are dedicated to hype and to wonderful spin-tastic garbage. Even if you consider him a troll, all you've done is troll him right back and sunk to his level. Stop censoring people, that is most definately not what the forums are here for IMO.
i thought the ultimate goal when bandwidth is unlimited speed and cpu power is not an issue is to have realistic fighting.... so you guys actually WANT static fighting wow!!! thats skills??? are u fuckin kidding me? and why the hell are u guys comparing CS an fps to any mmo?? thats a whole nother ball game, make some sense. WAR has skills?? ok lets sit there and attack/potion lets see who dies first .... yep revolutionary.
And since when do some of you consider action games not having skills over static fighting which we know doesn't have any skills?? you saying god of war doesn't need skills? devil may cry? even lara croft???? please make some god dam sense.
let me see you got a sheild in WAR how do u block? uhhhh get hit and see if u get lucky and block it, that doesn't take any skills.
in AoC there IS skills!!! wtf u talkin about. you dodge, strafe left and right, jump backwards. and actually block with your shield... how the hell can anybody be opposed to this is beyond me. what im sayin is WAR is an awesome IP and for a modern mmo it is a step backwards..
p.s. all you static statistic unrealistic fighters out there..... go play god of war statically and see how fun that game is? my point exactlyThe
simple answer is DONT PLAY WAR PLAY AOC instead.Its really that simple to do as you have a choice in what game you play.Now me and i suspect many others are ok with the WAR combat system.
I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far.
WAR IS COMING....
Ghost Squad....
"I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far."
Who said so....you??
If you can't take someone bringing up a discussion point on the game, go to a website that is dedicated to WAR if you want to see only "dancing in the rain" type posts.
Seriously, the "you don't like it, leave" attitude gets really old. People think the forums here are dedicated to hype and to wonderful spin-tastic garbage. Even if you consider him a troll, all you've done is troll him right back and sunk to his level. Stop censoring people, that is most definately not what the forums are here for IMO.
Isn't it "Singing in the rain"?
I personally think every game requires skill. There is no such thing as you don't need skill to play a game. If that was true then everyone would be equal at games coming. I don't mind the dice roll aspect of the fighting cause its one less thing I have to worry about. Personally if I wanted to control my sword I'd be playing Soul Caliber 2-3. (Which I should really pick back up but I'm having too much fun with Smash Bros Melee in anticipation for Brawl. Gotta get my reflexes ready to go into online ownage.) But saying just cause you don't have to worry about one aspect of the game doesn't neglect skill either. That just means you'll need to pay attention to what else is going on and out think your enemies. And isn't that really the definition of skill? IMO I think its rude to come in and say people don't have skill what so ever. That maybe not what he meant but it came across that way most definitely. Also saying that since people aren't substituting one fighting method to your fighting method isn't thinking outside the box when there really isn't anything new to add to either is a bit pompous. There are really only 2 ways of handling fighting. One is automatic attack and the other is forced attack (By means of you having to hit a button to swing). Now if someone would like to pronounce a new method. Then by all means say what and how it works. Just like RPGs and levels. Its very hard to have one without the other. Skill based is still levels on a different scale. Instead of your character leveling up. The weapon(skill) it uses does. Now I've never played SWG at all, but apparently they had a really good thing going until shit hit the fan with them.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Comments
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
~J. Krishnamurti
i find it interesting that all the examples you gave are from console games. i think this is indicative of a larger problem.
sorry to burst your bubble, but in AoC the shield blocking is not player controlled.
anyhow, you love AoC so much? the beta just opened up, go get your name down. personally i like WAR for what it is, its just what i wanted since i quit WoW. you want "moar twitch!" then i suggest BF2142, its a good game.
Have you ever played a tabletop Warhammer game? What do you have to do to attack.
ROLL DICE.
Dur.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
One could just as easily say to you: What's with this pc gaming crap? It too based on your computer speed and network connection, if you want to test your skills, you really need to go bare knuckle, toe-to-toe, in organized fighting events.
I realize you think you're hard core by saying that WAR is just another dice rolling game, but what you're missing is the concept of RPG's. You acquire gear, wealth, and other virtual properties, so you can continue to explore higher levels in the game. It's about progression, competition, and fun. If you find more action-based games to be fun, then perhaps RPG's aren't your thing. Or maybe you like hybrid action/RPG games that allow you to acquire level based gear but also require you to handle the players skills.
In any event, I believe WAR is firmly rooted in strategy and the luck of the roll, so it may not be your thing.
so...
What is skill to you exactly?
Skill can be found in any game.
The card game "Uno" requires skill...but you say Warhammer Online doesn't?
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
so to all those who prefer FPS over RTS or love board games and hate computer games then i hope you express your opinions and have them heard cus the only thing that comes out of this is damn good games
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Sure I want gameplay in an MMO that is more than run up to an opponent and spam skills till someone dies. But that is not WAR. WAR does have many innovations.
Collision detection among player/npc models.
No stealth classes.
Less crowd control.
No support classes.
Meaningful realm PvP combat.
Count me in! WAR sounds fun!
I cannot explain the sadness
That's fallen on my breast.
An old, old fable haunts me,
And will not let me rest.
Yeah, no criticisms or outside the box opinions allowed! That might actually influence the devs to think outside the box in the future, and we can’t have that. If we wanted a skill based game, we'd play chess....
Ah, it feels good to get that sarcasm out early in the day. Thanks for the opportunity to do so. The OP makes a very valid point.
The problem here is that you arent thinking far enough into the future. Games like Counter Strike or Battlefield are very daunting for the new player because they join and are completely out matched by people who are simply better than them. It becomes the case that the game caters to a few core elitist who are amazing at the game while scaring off all the new players (who well in contrast) suck. In an MMO how would you balance something like this and how would this be any more fun?
Players completely out matched from the get go due to slower connection speeds, reflexes, ping and play time. Also how do you expect to measure the way in which a player advances without some tier system. Warhammer Online has already opted to remove levels (so to speak) to be replaced with four bands. You cant please everybody whichever end result you choose. Its the reason not everybody enjoys FPS's or JRPG's or WRPG's, etc. There has to be a compromise between player skill (or reflex time in this case) and the base character stats otherwise your catering to a very small niche.
And not until recently has technology really been able to allow for the kind of gameplay many are demanding. Skill is a relative factor comming from a specific point of view. Knowing your class and which buttons to press when and why can be seen as skill by some while others only deem speed and reflex in aiming and firing as skill... so whose right? No one, just different approaches.
I agree and let me take it a bit further,
If your fighting SOMEONE IN PVP
and you have time to do other things during combat
YOUR DYING!!!
What is it about the AOC fans. Great you like AOC. I dont. I think it looks like a giant steaming PILE OF SHI. But hey, I wish the best to you guys. The hope the game is great and you wont see me knocking your game in YOUR FORUMS....so stay OUT OF OURS.
Oh and one more thing...Im tired of you AOC fans pointing to your combat system and acting like its the best thing since sliced bread. Great you push a button on the number pad and guess what, your charachter swings his sword a certain way and THE PROCESS IS STILL AUTOMATED. Whoop Dee Doo.
Actually you don't block with your shield in AoC. From the FAQ:
"2.9 Will there be dodging or blocking in the game?
There is dodging, yes, but you dont actually hit a dodge or block button to prevent strikes from hitting you. These are character skills and whether or not you avoid hits are determined from calculations going on in the background. You will be able to step back though, and use the terrain to your advantage by running behind things and so on. It is very dynamic."
So you see, they have "boring static gameplay" as well. Just thought I'd clear this up, but I'm sure it's already been cleared up several times.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Then it should be real time
And FFS its WARHAMMER.
WoW have already shown that static fighting dont work nicely....its the same all over...
How the %&¤*# can you make a MMO where you have to look away from the screen in a fight??? Down on the keys, or maybe if you are alitle "crazy"...you use mouse to puch toolbar.
C´mon we are not children learning to double click or senile 104 year old folk.....we can do it
The gaming industri thinks we cant
What your saying is pointless as WAR have decided to stick to what they know best.You REALLY dont have to follow it at all and Mythic really dont mind if you dont like there COMBAT System because there are plenty other games out there.I shall use Paul Barneets words"We really DONT have to cater to the masses if you dont like WAR then GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE.
WAR IS COMING....
Ghost Squad...
I still get angry when they dont think we are capable of a real time combat system.
And i hate it......and i suck at it....but i wouldent ever play a "point and click" MMO.
I hate CS, i always loose..but i wouldent ever wanna see CS with WoW combat system..this is not about what i want..its about whats the right thing
And its not about that i always wanna win..the better man deserves to win...and someday i will become the better man....i want to deserve my victorys by a fair fight...THATS what RPG is
Not the " he he im higher level and have better gear...so i win " whats the RPG in that??
No more shit combat system in MMO, and atleast we are beginning to see some new things in the future..AoC, Darkfall and Infinity
P.S Besides this..im normal LOL
*for some people "skill" = real world reflexes and muscle control, as in "if I can manually aim at your head and click a button faster, then I have more skill than you do, and I should win"
*while for other people "skill" = deciding what you want your character to do in the game, and not having the say as to whether they will succeed at it or not.
The first position is a FPS/console position: it basically destroys the wall between the player and character, and makes the character the alter-ego of the player, and, as others have written, reduces game play to the leet players with skillz who have the faster reflexes, more time to hone certain conditioned fine motor muscle responses on the keyboard or controller and the like. It differentiates between success and failure based on the player's real world reflexes and fine motor muscle control.
The second position is an RPG position: it maintains the distinction between the character and the player in the way that RPGs have done since the days of PnP, namely by letting the player decide what he wants the character to do, but making the character's own skills and abilities determine whether the character succeeds at the desired course of action. This preserves the distinction between the character and player, and pits players against each other not on the level of reflexes and fine motor muscle control, but rather on the level of strategy and tacics: the issue isn't "can I do X faster and more accurately than my opponent", but rather "can I come up with a sequence of acts that will outsmart my opponent, or defeat him in an unexpected way before he can adjust or vice-versa".
The first position people are always complaining that "click a button combat requires no skill", when what they really mean is that they only see something as requiring skill if it tests real life reflexes and fine muscle motor control. The second position people acknowledge that FPS games require these reflex and muscle control skills, but see RPGs as not being properly about these things, and are very concerned to see them coming up in the RPG context.
My own opinion is that these 1337 reflexes and fine motor muscle control abilities that people have in the real world should not be what MMORPGs are testing -- MMORPGs, because they are RPGs, should be testing player's abilities to choose the right tactics and strategy quickly enough in a stressful situation, but always being subject to their chracter's ability to execute what the player ideally wants to happen. When we break that character/player distinction down as it relates to such a fundamental issue as to who determines the outcome of an action, we're no longer playing an RPG, but an action-adventure FPS with advancement characteristics, like Oblivion or Dark Messiah.
Whats it all comes around to is this: carebear or not.
Ask anyone on this site, and you can tell.
One month ago i didnt like the term carebear, i believed it was a term to devaulate a specific playstyle....now i know its just a tem for players that dont want to have to care as much when that play MMO.
I have many MMO friends that are proud of beeing a carebears. And that all hate any combat system that involve playerskill.
They all want point-click-wait static system.
So that is the carebear combat system. All should just agree and say "yes thats right you real-time freak"
I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far.
WAR IS COMING....
Ghost Squad....
"I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far."
Who said so....you??
If you can't take someone bringing up a discussion point on the game, go to a website that is dedicated to WAR if you want to see only "dancing in the rain" type posts.
Seriously, the "you don't like it, leave" attitude gets really old. People think the forums here are dedicated to hype and to wonderful spin-tastic garbage. Even if you consider him a troll, all you've done is troll him right back and sunk to his level. Stop censoring people, that is most definately not what the forums are here for IMO.
I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far.
WAR IS COMING....
Ghost Squad....
"I really don't see why you are not in the AOC forums as this is for WAR followers who are happy with WARs progress so far."
Who said so....you??
If you can't take someone bringing up a discussion point on the game, go to a website that is dedicated to WAR if you want to see only "dancing in the rain" type posts.
Seriously, the "you don't like it, leave" attitude gets really old. People think the forums here are dedicated to hype and to wonderful spin-tastic garbage. Even if you consider him a troll, all you've done is troll him right back and sunk to his level. Stop censoring people, that is most definately not what the forums are here for IMO.
Isn't it "Singing in the rain"?I personally think every game requires skill. There is no such thing as you don't need skill to play a game. If that was true then everyone would be equal at games coming. I don't mind the dice roll aspect of the fighting cause its one less thing I have to worry about. Personally if I wanted to control my sword I'd be playing Soul Caliber 2-3. (Which I should really pick back up but I'm having too much fun with Smash Bros Melee in anticipation for Brawl. Gotta get my reflexes ready to go into online ownage.) But saying just cause you don't have to worry about one aspect of the game doesn't neglect skill either. That just means you'll need to pay attention to what else is going on and out think your enemies. And isn't that really the definition of skill? IMO I think its rude to come in and say people don't have skill what so ever. That maybe not what he meant but it came across that way most definitely. Also saying that since people aren't substituting one fighting method to your fighting method isn't thinking outside the box when there really isn't anything new to add to either is a bit pompous. There are really only 2 ways of handling fighting. One is automatic attack and the other is forced attack (By means of you having to hit a button to swing). Now if someone would like to pronounce a new method. Then by all means say what and how it works. Just like RPGs and levels. Its very hard to have one without the other. Skill based is still levels on a different scale. Instead of your character leveling up. The weapon(skill) it uses does. Now I've never played SWG at all, but apparently they had a really good thing going until shit hit the fan with them.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht