Originally posted by seabass2003 Originally posted by Coldmeat So, if I were to go preorder the game from my local EB Games, I'd have to plunk down $49.99? Last thing I preordered was the WoW expansion for a whopping $5 or $10, and I never even bothered to buy the game. Come to think of it, I think I switched my preorder over to WAR, but I'm not sure, really. I never got a call to come pick up my copy of TBC, so who knows.
Actually it depends on the store. Some are charging $10 some $5 but most online retailers are charging the full price.
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet.
And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
Originally posted by hundejahre Originally posted by seabass2003 Originally posted by Coldmeat So, if I were to go preorder the game from my local EB Games, I'd have to plunk down $49.99? Last thing I preordered was the WoW expansion for a whopping $5 or $10, and I never even bothered to buy the game. Come to think of it, I think I switched my preorder over to WAR, but I'm not sure, really. I never got a call to come pick up my copy of TBC, so who knows.
Actually it depends on the store. Some are charging $10 some $5 but most online retailers are charging the full price.
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet.
And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat.
Downloaded on the 6th, played early morning on the 7th and was disappointed. Why? The intro movie, area and instance just wasn't exciting; combat was boring; I just was expecting so much more.
Decided to give the game another chance. Played again later in the day on the 7th until about 3 in the morning. Anything different? Yes, I very much like the game now...and will preorder.
I'm still unsure about endgame...other than crafting and a few tools for RP, I see no reason for playing beyond level cap. Other than waiting for expansions and a level increase. Let's see what benefits a Fellowship will gain you...I believe a Fellowship is a guild. If it's a group for quests, someone please correct me. I know of the monster thing...just not so sure about that either. What are the benefits?
Graphics are pleasing to the eye. Lots of autumn colors. Lots of ambient sounds. Yes, there are constellations....tried to see if any star was prevalent in the northern sky, there may be but didn't notice one. The water effects are nice. Shadows are nice. Barely any lag at all. Fire effects could be better. The sky is gorgeous.
Character graphics are very nice. My ONLY gripe is customisation is very limited...but not a game turn off. I feel that can be remedied by MORE armor/gear sets....or allow crafters to color their wares (may be able to, not sure...just a basic woodcrafter myself). Running graphic is good, swimming graphic is nice although I couldn't get my character to go underwater (may not be any need to so no trouble there with me). Ok, two gripes. I want chat bubbles to appear over characters. I looked for an option to do so but couldn't find any. This is a little bit of a major disappointment for me. But, not enough to drive me away. (Chat bubbles ease combat and character RP alot...you don't have to keep checking the chat log + I'm spoiled on SWG).
NPC graphics are nice. They have an option for chat bubbles...which is pleasing. The instance coming out of the starter area with an NPC helping you out was EXCELLENTLY done. I really enjoyed that part. The NPC quests are nicely written up and have had no problems with them...with a little exploration.
AI is about the same as any game out there...but it is fun. When creatures see they are about to get their butt kicked, they will run. Some creatures will chase you if you run. Some creatures will snip at you as you run past but won't chase you. Flocks of birds rising from trees at approach.
All in all....yes, the same thing but done in a fun way. I think the game is worth it and have preordered. Oh, and so far I ran into only one jerk...but, I think he was a child trying to be cool on the chat log. Everyone else is friendly.
Originally posted by Coldmeat So, if I were to go preorder the game from my local EB Games, I'd have to plunk down $49.99? Last thing I preordered was the WoW expansion for a whopping $5 or $10, and I never even bothered to buy the game. Come to think of it, I think I switched my preorder over to WAR, but I'm not sure, really. I never got a call to come pick up my copy of TBC, so who knows.
Actually it depends on the store. Some are charging $10 some $5 but most online retailers are charging the full price.
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet. And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat. So, with that in mind, best selling wha?
Reaching for straws there ain't you? I am really sorry for you that Vanguard turned out to be such a steaming heap, and will never be more than another mediocre wash up of a game in SOEs stable of Station Pass wonders. However it is pretty obvious to most every one that Turbine has a hit on their hands here and all the nay saying is not going to affect that fact, so you may as well suck it up.
Downloaded on the 6th, played early morning on the 7th and was disappointed. Why? The intro movie, area and instance just wasn't exciting; combat was boring; I just was expecting so much more. Decided to give the game another chance. Played again later in the day on the 7th until about 3 in the morning. Anything different? Yes, I very much like the game now...and will preorder. I'm still unsure about endgame...other than crafting and a few tools for RP, I see no reason for playing beyond level cap. Other than waiting for expansions and a level increase. Let's see what benefits a Fellowship will gain you...I believe a Fellowship is a guild. If it's a group for quests, someone please correct me. I know of the monster thing...just not so sure about that either. What are the benefits? Graphics are pleasing to the eye. Lots of autumn colors. Lots of ambient sounds. Yes, there are constellations....tried to see if any star was prevalent in the northern sky, there may be but didn't notice one. The water effects are nice. Shadows are nice. Barely any lag at all. Fire effects could be better. The sky is gorgeous. Character graphics are very nice. My ONLY gripe is customisation is very limited...but not a game turn off. I feel that can be remedied by MORE armor/gear sets....or allow crafters to color their wares (may be able to, not sure...just a basic woodcrafter myself). Running graphic is good, swimming graphic is nice although I couldn't get my character to go underwater (may not be any need to so no trouble there with me). Ok, two gripes. I want chat bubbles to appear over characters. I looked for an option to do so but couldn't find any. This is a little bit of a major disappointment for me. But, not enough to drive me away. (Chat bubbles ease combat and character RP alot...you don't have to keep checking the chat log + I'm spoiled on SWG). NPC graphics are nice. They have an option for chat bubbles...which is pleasing. The instance coming out of the starter area with an NPC helping you out was EXCELLENTLY done. I really enjoyed that part. The NPC quests are nicely written up and have had no problems with them...with a little exploration. AI is about the same as any game out there...but it is fun. When creatures see they are about to get their butt kicked, they will run. Some creatures will chase you if you run. Some creatures will snip at you as you run past but won't chase you. Flocks of birds rising from trees at approach. All in all....yes, the same thing but done in a fun way. I think the game is worth it and have preordered. Oh, and so far I ran into only one jerk...but, I think he was a child trying to be cool on the chat log. Everyone else is friendly.
There is a chat bubble option, but i've only seen chat lines appear over NPCs so far, not sure if it works for players(haven't payed attention when someone talks in /say), plus its not really a chat bubble so much as you see their text floating over their head. Also, i don't believe you can swim underwater (yet)
Originally posted by Jackdog Originally posted by Coldmeat
Originally posted by hundejahre
Originally posted by seabass2003
Originally posted by Coldmeat So, if I were to go preorder the game from my local EB Games, I'd have to plunk down $49.99? Last thing I preordered was the WoW expansion for a whopping $5 or $10, and I never even bothered to buy the game. Come to think of it, I think I switched my preorder over to WAR, but I'm not sure, really. I never got a call to come pick up my copy of TBC, so who knows.
Actually it depends on the store. Some are charging $10 some $5 but most online retailers are charging the full price. To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet. And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling. And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat. So, with that in mind, best selling wha?
Reaching for straws there ain't you? I am really sorry for you that Vanguard turned out to be such a steaming heap, and will never be more than another mediocre wash up of a game in SOEs stable of Station Pass wonders. However it is pretty obvious to most every one that Turbine has a hit on their hands here and all the nay saying is not going to affect that fact, so you may as well suck it up.
No, not really. Until those preorders become sales, they're just potential. So, no, it's not the best selling anything, yet.
As for Vanguard being a crap game... News at 11? Not seeing the pertinence to the current topic, other than a poorly executed attempt on your part to insult me by insinuating that I play, or like, Vanguard or something.
Originally posted by Jackdog Originally posted by Coldmeat
Originally posted by hundejahre
Originally posted by seabass2003
Originally posted by Coldmeat So, if I were to go preorder the game from my local EB Games, I'd have to plunk down $49.99? Last thing I preordered was the WoW expansion for a whopping $5 or $10, and I never even bothered to buy the game. Come to think of it, I think I switched my preorder over to WAR, but I'm not sure, really. I never got a call to come pick up my copy of TBC, so who knows.
Actually it depends on the store. Some are charging $10 some $5 but most online retailers are charging the full price. To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet. And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling. And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat. So, with that in mind, best selling wha?
Reaching for straws there ain't you? I am really sorry for you that Vanguard turned out to be such a steaming heap, and will never be more than another mediocre wash up of a game in SOEs stable of Station Pass wonders. However it is pretty obvious to most every one that Turbine has a hit on their hands here and all the nay saying is not going to affect that fact, so you may as well suck it up.
Indeed I'd say at this point pre-order numbers don't mean much. Why? Vanguard is one reason and Turbines past outings is another. Many people who got burned by Vanguard and had to pay for it will probably never preorder another game as long as they live. Many people who played AC2 or early DDO are probably not going to preorder a Turbine game (many people playing DDO now say it's pretty good and if they'd have a 15 day trial that wasn't limited to Europe I'd love to find out). With that in mind, preorders may be a lot LOWER than post release sales.
I like LOTRO a lot. My wife likes it a lot. That's two confirmed orders that will be paid for, but aren't paid for yet. Since preorder sales can be cancelled before money ever changes hands they aren't a reliabe figure, but in less than 20 days when they WILL be paid for I think we're all going to be supprised.
Also remember this game is releasing the end of April... a time when there's nothing! Spring breaks are most likely over for most kids. Summer is a ways off, Christmas past and future are nowhere to be seen. So any sales of this game you see are likely to be REAL sales, not gift sales, not "Christmas money" impulse buys, not even "Oh, oh, this game OR that game" because as far as I know nothing else good is releasing anytime soon, but real sales made by people planning to play well past the "free" month.
Well I think it's hard to project peak player numbers based on current participation in an open beta. There are all kinds of statistical reasons why this is not a reliable indicator, but to avoid boring everyone to death I'll just say that a lot of people actually don't like beta testing. If I try any new game, this will be it, but beta testing isn't my cup of tea. Arc
yea who would want to try out a game for free before paying 50 bucks for it? The answer? EVERYONE!
So the population isnt going to increase much at release, if at all
Think again....
I've logged into the beta a few times and leveled a couple of characters up to around 7 or 8, but then stopped playing because I don't want to ruin the game for myself when it's actually released. I want it to stay fresh and new.
BTW, I enjoyed what I did see so far. It looks like it's going to be a fun game.
What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
Yeah for the Pre-Order people it's about getting your characters to 15, getting the tradeskills trimmed and so forth before the 24th so you can hit the ground running (if you wish to keep playing) with the same set of characters.
I think that on the numbers issue, this will be a popular game no doubt. I do not think that the main target mass of buyers bothers with pre-orders or Beta testing, though -- I think the main target for this one is the large mass of casual gamers and LOTR fans, and I think many of these people won't pre-order a game or sign up for and download a beta version. They buy the game at release. And I expect that many of them will do so because while this game is not groundbreaking or innovative (except in being pretty much bug-free at release ... now THAT'S a welcome "innovation" ....), it is smooth, runs on a lot of systems, pretty, has familiar and fun (for non-experts) gameplay and offers that great setting which is very well evoked imo. So I expect that the game will go quite well, but that it will become the new whipping boy for jaded MMO elites who do not like popular games.
Downloaded on the 6th, played early morning on the 7th and was disappointed. Why? The intro movie, area and instance just wasn't exciting; combat was boring; I just was expecting so much more.
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I have to wonder what exactly you were expecting? Granted, you did say you gave it another shot, listed off some positive aspects and said you'd pre-order after all. But when Turbine has been saying all along that LOTRO was not going to be some massive revolution for the genre like Sigil did with Vanguard (and I'd hardly describe Vanguard as a revolution of any form whatsoever) but that it would be a casual-friendly, traditional MMO; very easy to play, easy to get into, easy to learn. Similar to AC2, WoW, perhaps EQ2 and a host of other traditional MMOs. I see LOTRO certainly as an evolution from AC2, and very much like Blizzard's forte is refinement, Turbine in my opinion has taken all the good aspects of WoW (and others) and refined them even more with LOTRO. As appreciative as I was with a lot of small things that made you stop and think "oh, cool" in WoW, Turbine has outdone Blizzard here as well.
But long before I ever planned on giving LOTRO a second thought (mostly because I'm not a LOTR geek; it took me months to read the boring books, but I did thoroughly enjoy the films) but I thought 'what the hell' and decided to jump the gun and get in the pre-order beta a few days before public open beta, and I've not regretted that decision so far. Obviously with the low level cap, I have no idea what to expect at end-game, but what I've experienced so far has everything I liked about WoW, with a lot of extra stuff, and none of what I wound up hating at WoW's end-game. Now, if LOTRO turns into nothing but a rep/dungeon/raid grindfest at end-game, my tune will change just like it did with WoW, but so far I'm not hearing that from those who reached end-game in closed beta.
Originally posted by Jackdog What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Coldmeat. I am just pointing out that going by the sales charts LoTRO is doing extremely well. Why does that rile you up? the game is selling like hotcakes and you and I both know that the majority of the people who play these games pre order so they can play release day. As far as try before buy I have been advocating that for this game ever since they announced there would be one and posted the link to the public open beta information at least two dozen times if not more in the past few weeks and for that matter I still do.
Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi Originally posted by Coldmeat
Originally posted by Jackdog What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing. I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game. Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up. It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic. Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
Preorders != Sales
so your position is that most of the people preordering are going to cancel before relese, is that what you are trying to say? Would you like to put a figure on that? would you say that 10% maybe or 50% will cancel or 90% , what is your guess and what is the reasoning behind this guess? Also what is your opinion on that with the free public open beta in progress why is it people are still pre ordering and it is still at number one since before it is over and the European public open starts anyone in the world will be able to play free for a couple of weeks without pre ordering?
Its open beta and they can only fill 11 servers. So this is not going to be a popular game. Its gonna have 150k subscribers max
I don't care how many play it, as long as it's fun. And it is fun so far(to lvl 15). I see the WoW comparisons, but there is one major difference, WoW is Azeroth, LotRO is Middle Earth. Now, which one do you wanna be a part of? I like WoW, but it is cool visiting the prancing pony, or standing on weathertop. It will do well, but it won't reach the numbers WoW does, but so what.
Originally posted by Jackdog Coldmeat. I am just pointing out that going by the sales charts LoTRO is doing extremely well. Why does that rile you up? the game is selling like hotcakes and you and I both know that the majority of the people who play these games pre order so they can play release day. As far as try before buy I have been advocating that for this game ever since they announced there would be one and posted the link to the public open beta information at least two dozen times if not more in the past few weeks and for that matter I still do.
I'm not riled, I swear more when I'm riled.
I'm just saying that 600k or whatever odd pre-orders does not automatically equal 600k odd box sales, which is what it seems you're saying, and even further down the road, doesn't equal 600k subs.
The only thing riling me at the moment is the Loremasters running around with a raven pet named Nevermore, Edgar, Allen, Poe, or some variation thereof. I did see a Booromir earlier that made me shake my head, but no Legolaz, Legolazzzz, Xlegolasx, etc, yet. That's when I'll be riled.
Originally posted by Coldmeat Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi Originally posted by Coldmeat
Originally posted by Jackdog What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing. I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game. Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up. It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder? Preorders != Sales so your position is that most of the people preordering are going to cancel before relese, is that what you are trying to say? Would you like to put a figure on that? would you say that 10% maybe or 50% will cancel or 90% , what is your guess and what is the reasoning behind this guess? Also what is your opinion on that with the free public open beta in progress why is it people are still pre ordering and it is still at number one since before it is over and the European public open starts anyone in the world will be able to play free for a couple of weeks without pre ordering?
How many will cancel? More than 10% less than 50%? If I had to guess.
As for why people are still picking up the pre-order? Some are planning on buying it, I imagine. Some are on the fence, but figure it's worth the $5 to lock down the $9.99 sub price in case they do pick it up. Some, I imagine just wanna try it/play it for free for $5, and can't, or won't download the client from fileplanet, or the like.
What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
Preorders != Sales
ok. gotcha.
Which MMO's had 500k pre-orders and ended with having low subs? Which MMO were the pre-order sales higher than the subription numbers after the 30 days? I still dont know what your trying to say really, i assumed pre-oreder numbers are lower than both the boxes sold at launch and the sub rate...at least for the first 6 months or so. Unless a company totally lied about the game and the quality of the game. Maybe D&L had higher pre-orders numbers lol.
.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi ok. gotcha. Which MMO's had 500k pre-orders and ended with having low subs? Which MMO were the pre-order sales higher than the subription numbers after the 30 days? I still dont know what your trying to say really, i assumed pre-oreder numbers are lower than both the boxes sold at launch and the sub rate...at least for the first 6 months or so. Unless a company totally lied about the game and the quality of the game. Maybe D&L had higher pre-orders numbers lol. .
I would guess they are as well, except D&L, or maybe Vanguard.
This all initially started with Jackdog saying that LotRO was #1 on EB's best sellers chart for 10 weeks, #5 on Amazons sales charts. I pointed out that they hadn't actually sold anything, yet, and it all went to hell from there.
That's just being pedantic. Very few customers cancel preorders. A few % at most.
A better question is to ask how many of the 600K can they keep after the first month? Personally, I think this game will do well.
thats not true at all. People pay ten bucks for a preorder so they can get into the beta and try the game out. If its not a good game, most of them will not buy the game at release
Originally posted by Jackdog Coldmeat. I am just pointing out that going by the sales charts LoTRO is doing extremely well. Why does that rile you up? the game is selling like hotcakes and you and I both know that the majority of the people who play these games pre order so they can play release day. As far as try before buy I have been advocating that for this game ever since they announced there would be one and posted the link to the public open beta information at least two dozen times if not more in the past few weeks and for that matter I still do.
I'm not riled, I swear more when I'm riled. I'm just saying that 600k or whatever odd pre-orders does not automatically equal 600k odd box sales, which is what it seems you're saying, and even further down the road, doesn't equal 600k subs. The only thing riling me at the moment is the Loremasters running around with a raven pet named Nevermore, Edgar, Allen, Poe, or some variation thereof. I did see a Booromir earlier that made me shake my head, but no Legolaz, Legolazzzz, Xlegolasx, etc, yet. That's when I'll be riled.
care to find a quote where I said there would be 600K at launch, I have always said 400K for the most part, recently speculating 500 K with a maybe a million by the end of the year provided they have good CS and some free expansions before the end of the summer. I dunno why you thought that the immature asses would not find their way over to the game. I mean mygawd they do not require an IQ rest and six sworn affidavits in order to public beta or buy the damn thing. I think the names are kind of funny I know a guy witha Minstrel named Clapton, kind of appropriate if you ask me.
Comments
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet.
And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet.
And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat.
So, with that in mind, best selling wha?
Downloaded on the 6th, played early morning on the 7th and was disappointed. Why? The intro movie, area and instance just wasn't exciting; combat was boring; I just was expecting so much more.
Decided to give the game another chance. Played again later in the day on the 7th until about 3 in the morning. Anything different? Yes, I very much like the game now...and will preorder.
I'm still unsure about endgame...other than crafting and a few tools for RP, I see no reason for playing beyond level cap. Other than waiting for expansions and a level increase. Let's see what benefits a Fellowship will gain you...I believe a Fellowship is a guild. If it's a group for quests, someone please correct me. I know of the monster thing...just not so sure about that either. What are the benefits?
Graphics are pleasing to the eye. Lots of autumn colors. Lots of ambient sounds. Yes, there are constellations....tried to see if any star was prevalent in the northern sky, there may be but didn't notice one. The water effects are nice. Shadows are nice. Barely any lag at all. Fire effects could be better. The sky is gorgeous.
Character graphics are very nice. My ONLY gripe is customisation is very limited...but not a game turn off. I feel that can be remedied by MORE armor/gear sets....or allow crafters to color their wares (may be able to, not sure...just a basic woodcrafter myself). Running graphic is good, swimming graphic is nice although I couldn't get my character to go underwater (may not be any need to so no trouble there with me). Ok, two gripes. I want chat bubbles to appear over characters. I looked for an option to do so but couldn't find any. This is a little bit of a major disappointment for me. But, not enough to drive me away. (Chat bubbles ease combat and character RP alot...you don't have to keep checking the chat log + I'm spoiled on SWG).
NPC graphics are nice. They have an option for chat bubbles...which is pleasing. The instance coming out of the starter area with an NPC helping you out was EXCELLENTLY done. I really enjoyed that part. The NPC quests are nicely written up and have had no problems with them...with a little exploration.
AI is about the same as any game out there...but it is fun. When creatures see they are about to get their butt kicked, they will run. Some creatures will chase you if you run. Some creatures will snip at you as you run past but won't chase you. Flocks of birds rising from trees at approach.
All in all....yes, the same thing but done in a fun way. I think the game is worth it and have preordered. Oh, and so far I ran into only one jerk...but, I think he was a child trying to be cool on the chat log. Everyone else is friendly.
Reaching for straws there ain't you? I am really sorry for you that Vanguard turned out to be such a steaming heap, and will never be more than another mediocre wash up of a game in SOEs stable of Station Pass wonders. However it is pretty obvious to most every one that Turbine has a hit on their hands here and all the nay saying is not going to affect that fact, so you may as well suck it up.
I miss DAoC
True, I did find the NPC chat bubble option.
Just me with the chat bubbles...like I said, it's not a game killer of course. Just a little inconvenience...but, I was spoiled by SWG.
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet.
And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat.
So, with that in mind, best selling wha?
Reaching for straws there ain't you? I am really sorry for you that Vanguard turned out to be such a steaming heap, and will never be more than another mediocre wash up of a game in SOEs stable of Station Pass wonders. However it is pretty obvious to most every one that Turbine has a hit on their hands here and all the nay saying is not going to affect that fact, so you may as well suck it up.
No, not really. Until those preorders become sales, they're just potential. So, no, it's not the best selling anything, yet.
As for Vanguard being a crap game... News at 11? Not seeing the pertinence to the current topic, other than a poorly executed attempt on your part to insult me by insinuating that I play, or like, Vanguard or something.
To be fair, most on-line retailers don't actually chargo you anything until the product is ready to ship, and I know my two preorder copied haven't been charged for. So I doubt most of the on-line sales are actually sold yet.
And thank god this is the case, otherwise I'd of had to return the $100 crap-in-a-box that was the Vanguard expensive version instead of just cancelling.
And here we have someone illustrating my point that pre-order numbers mean squat.
So, with that in mind, best selling wha?
Reaching for straws there ain't you? I am really sorry for you that Vanguard turned out to be such a steaming heap, and will never be more than another mediocre wash up of a game in SOEs stable of Station Pass wonders. However it is pretty obvious to most every one that Turbine has a hit on their hands here and all the nay saying is not going to affect that fact, so you may as well suck it up.
Indeed I'd say at this point pre-order numbers don't mean much. Why? Vanguard is one reason and Turbines past outings is another. Many people who got burned by Vanguard and had to pay for it will probably never preorder another game as long as they live. Many people who played AC2 or early DDO are probably not going to preorder a Turbine game (many people playing DDO now say it's pretty good and if they'd have a 15 day trial that wasn't limited to Europe I'd love to find out). With that in mind, preorders may be a lot LOWER than post release sales.
I like LOTRO a lot. My wife likes it a lot. That's two confirmed orders that will be paid for, but aren't paid for yet. Since preorder sales can be cancelled before money ever changes hands they aren't a reliabe figure, but in less than 20 days when they WILL be paid for I think we're all going to be supprised.
Also remember this game is releasing the end of April... a time when there's nothing! Spring breaks are most likely over for most kids. Summer is a ways off, Christmas past and future are nowhere to be seen. So any sales of this game you see are likely to be REAL sales, not gift sales, not "Christmas money" impulse buys, not even "Oh, oh, this game OR that game" because as far as I know nothing else good is releasing anytime soon, but real sales made by people planning to play well past the "free" month.
yea who would want to try out a game for free before paying 50 bucks for it? The answer? EVERYONE!
So the population isnt going to increase much at release, if at all
Think again....
I've logged into the beta a few times and leveled a couple of characters up to around 7 or 8, but then stopped playing because I don't want to ruin the game for myself when it's actually released. I want it to stay fresh and new.
BTW, I enjoyed what I did see so far. It looks like it's going to be a fun game.
What is interesting though is that with the open play before pay beta in progress that pre order sales are still going strong and the game is sticking at number one in pre orders. Seems as if a lot of the open beta players are liking what they see well enough to buy the game. When Vanguard open beta started they dropped from number 5 ( they never made it past five) down into the 20's at Amazon and then steadily went downhill to disappear off the top 100.
I miss DAoC
I think that on the numbers issue, this will be a popular game no doubt. I do not think that the main target mass of buyers bothers with pre-orders or Beta testing, though -- I think the main target for this one is the large mass of casual gamers and LOTR fans, and I think many of these people won't pre-order a game or sign up for and download a beta version. They buy the game at release. And I expect that many of them will do so because while this game is not groundbreaking or innovative (except in being pretty much bug-free at release ... now THAT'S a welcome "innovation" ....), it is smooth, runs on a lot of systems, pretty, has familiar and fun (for non-experts) gameplay and offers that great setting which is very well evoked imo. So I expect that the game will go quite well, but that it will become the new whipping boy for jaded MMO elites who do not like popular games.
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Originally posted by Redmow
Downloaded on the 6th, played early morning on the 7th and was disappointed. Why? The intro movie, area and instance just wasn't exciting; combat was boring; I just was expecting so much more.
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I have to wonder what exactly you were expecting? Granted, you did say you gave it another shot, listed off some positive aspects and said you'd pre-order after all. But when Turbine has been saying all along that LOTRO was not going to be some massive revolution for the genre like Sigil did with Vanguard (and I'd hardly describe Vanguard as a revolution of any form whatsoever) but that it would be a casual-friendly, traditional MMO; very easy to play, easy to get into, easy to learn. Similar to AC2, WoW, perhaps EQ2 and a host of other traditional MMOs. I see LOTRO certainly as an evolution from AC2, and very much like Blizzard's forte is refinement, Turbine in my opinion has taken all the good aspects of WoW (and others) and refined them even more with LOTRO. As appreciative as I was with a lot of small things that made you stop and think "oh, cool" in WoW, Turbine has outdone Blizzard here as well.
But long before I ever planned on giving LOTRO a second thought (mostly because I'm not a LOTR geek; it took me months to read the boring books, but I did thoroughly enjoy the films) but I thought 'what the hell' and decided to jump the gun and get in the pre-order beta a few days before public open beta, and I've not regretted that decision so far. Obviously with the low level cap, I have no idea what to expect at end-game, but what I've experienced so far has everything I liked about WoW, with a lot of extra stuff, and none of what I wound up hating at WoW's end-game. Now, if LOTRO turns into nothing but a rep/dungeon/raid grindfest at end-game, my tune will change just like it did with WoW, but so far I'm not hearing that from those who reached end-game in closed beta.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I miss DAoC
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
Preorders != Sales
so your position is that most of the people preordering are going to cancel before relese, is that what you are trying to say? Would you like to put a figure on that? would you say that 10% maybe or 50% will cancel or 90% , what is your guess and what is the reasoning behind this guess? Also what is your opinion on that with the free public open beta in progress why is it people are still pre ordering and it is still at number one since before it is over and the European public open starts anyone in the world will be able to play free for a couple of weeks without pre ordering?I miss DAoC
I'm not riled, I swear more when I'm riled.
I'm just saying that 600k or whatever odd pre-orders does not automatically equal 600k odd box sales, which is what it seems you're saying, and even further down the road, doesn't equal 600k subs.
The only thing riling me at the moment is the Loremasters running around with a raven pet named Nevermore, Edgar, Allen, Poe, or some variation thereof. I did see a Booromir earlier that made me shake my head, but no Legolaz, Legolazzzz, Xlegolasx, etc, yet. That's when I'll be riled.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
Preorders != Sales
so your position is that most of the people preordering are going to cancel before relese, is that what you are trying to say? Would you like to put a figure on that? would you say that 10% maybe or 50% will cancel or 90% , what is your guess and what is the reasoning behind this guess? Also what is your opinion on that with the free public open beta in progress why is it people are still pre ordering and it is still at number one since before it is over and the European public open starts anyone in the world will be able to play free for a couple of weeks without pre ordering?
How many will cancel? More than 10% less than 50%? If I had to guess.
As for why people are still picking up the pre-order? Some are planning on buying it, I imagine. Some are on the fence, but figure it's worth the $5 to lock down the $9.99 sub price in case they do pick it up. Some, I imagine just wanna try it/play it for free for $5, and can't, or won't download the client from fileplanet, or the like.
You seem stuck on this Vanguard thing.
I remember you on the Vanguard forums, saying this or that in almost every thread, and when called out as a troll, you'd reply that you weren't trolling, merely presenting facts. And in general I agreed with most of what you posted, if for no other reason than you were one of the few that could post rationally, either for, or against the game.
Interesting, though, that when presented with a fact, in this case a not entirely positive one, about your particular pet game, you get pretty riled up.
It may well sell a lot of copies. Hell, I've said previously that it will based simply on the IP. Of course, it's the 30 & 90 day marks that really count. But until it actually is released, saying it's got X number of preorders is just... nothing. Especially coming from someone that so adamantly proscribes to a "try it before you buy it" ethic.
Couldnt seem to find the fact you're talking about here..could you give me a reminder?
Preorders != Sales
ok. gotcha.
Which MMO's had 500k pre-orders and ended with having low subs? Which MMO were the pre-order sales higher than the subription numbers after the 30 days? I still dont know what your trying to say really, i assumed pre-oreder numbers are lower than both the boxes sold at launch and the sub rate...at least for the first 6 months or so. Unless a company totally lied about the game and the quality of the game. Maybe D&L had higher pre-orders numbers lol.
.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I would guess they are as well, except D&L, or maybe Vanguard.
This all initially started with Jackdog saying that LotRO was #1 on EB's best sellers chart for 10 weeks, #5 on Amazons sales charts. I pointed out that they hadn't actually sold anything, yet, and it all went to hell from there.
A better question is to ask how many of the 600K can they keep after the first month? Personally, I think this game will do well.
A better question is to ask how many of the 600K can they keep after the first month? Personally, I think this game will do well.
thats not true at all. People pay ten bucks for a preorder so they can get into the beta and try the game out. If its not a good game, most of them will not buy the game at release
care to find a quote where I said there would be 600K at launch, I have always said 400K for the most part, recently speculating 500 K with a maybe a million by the end of the year provided they have good CS and some free expansions before the end of the summer. I dunno why you thought that the immature asses would not find their way over to the game. I mean mygawd they do not require an IQ rest and six sworn affidavits in order to public beta or buy the damn thing. I think the names are kind of funny I know a guy witha Minstrel named Clapton, kind of appropriate if you ask me.
I miss DAoC