How many months a game needs to be launch ready is largely a function of how well and how fast the team implements their design, and the magnitude of that design. In this case, I think Vanguard was released years too early, not merely months, based on those criteria.
That's not to say the game can't be played at all, by someone. If that is the only standard it was released on time, if not late. But considering the state it is in, this title is barely ready for beta to start.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
City of Heroes? ...lshould have been renamed City of Lag early on.
LOL! You clearly didn't play CoH at launch. I've been in that game since closed beta, and I can tell you that it was far more polished and stable at launch than VG was in its beta. Compared to all the games I'd beta tested and launched by that point, CoH was probably the smoothest MMO launch I've seen so far, and Cryptic were a bunch of n00bs releasing their first game.
Were there issues with the game? Sure. There still are. But it was stable, polished, and playable when it went live. I know, because I was there.
Vanguard was too rough around the edges at launch..agreed..particularly when one considers the time, money and talent invested.
Vanguard wasn't rough around the edges. It was unfinished, unpolished, and unoptimized. They don't even have two of the starting classes in the game, much less standard features like scalability and Anti-Aliasing. How anyone could look at the client they launched with and see anything other than an unfinished mess is beyond me.
Is there the shell of a good game in Vanguard? Yes. And it could be a good game in another year or so. Unfortunately, it got buried under a mountain of shoddy code and less than stellar polish and soul.
I wanted to like the game. I wanted to see it succeed for two reasons: (1) I actually like Brad, and don't think he's a bad guy, just an overwhelmed one, and (2) more choices for consumers is a GOOD thing. But the client they offered up at launch was unacceptable, and the continuing issues that I see around various forums simply don't justify calling this game anything but fubar for the next several months.
Enough has been done already that I would consider Vanguard is NOW at the point where they SHOULD have been at launch. In other words...Vanguard beta is over..it's game on now.
There are enough problems still out there that I don't think this is the case. Their performance issues alone don't offer any confidence, since they're desperately hoping that people dropping lots of cash on higher end rigs will magically fix all their problems in that regard.
People should expect a lot more from these games, especially at launch. They really should. Paying full retail and subscription fees for months after launch until the game finally staggers into some sort of playable state shouldn't be acceptable. It just shouldn't.
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin something to chew on........don't ya think?
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Is that the new Vanboi stance, that because there are starving children in Africa, we shouldn't complain about Vanguard's poor performance, broken content, incomplete features, etc.? You know what, it doesn't even matter what state Vanguard was or is in. The mere fact that you think that the plight of third world countries and the launch of VG are somehow comparable is moronic, and insulting.
Bad things are not justified by the presence of other bad things, that sort of mentality does not lead to improvement everywhere. If you're legitimately concerned about the behavior of State Leaders or the fate of children in the Third World, then go post on forums dealing with those issues. Raise awarenes for those issues and make an attempt to fix them, don't try hiding an MMO behind them, what the hell is wrong with you?
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin
something to chew on........don't ya think?
LOL! More jewels from Thamoris
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin something to chew on........don't ya think?
I think what he proposes is inherently Capitalist. Telling a company what you expect, by withholding hard earned cash if the product doesn't meet certain standards. It seemed pretty clear to me. (shrugs).
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin something to chew on........don't ya think?
Wow. Just...wow. Talk about an incoherent argument. I don't even know where to begin taking this post apart, just because the logic is completely twisted. Since when does having a basic expectation as a consumer have anything to do with Clinton getting a blowjob in office, or people starving in Africa? That makes less than no sense.
BTW, there's nothing inherently wrong with expecting something to work properly out of the box when you buy it, especially if it took five years and $30+ million dollars to create.
After playing mmo's for the last 10 years and playing VG since beta i have to say i have enjoyed myself sofar playing the game.
We came over from WoW with a few people 7 or 8 and after making our guild in VG and getting to know the game its good fun still. Something i dont like other i do but overall i am content with the game. Being lvl 47 ATM Adv and lvl 39 Crafting and halfway into Diplomacy meaning i played all 3 spheres in the game give me a good idea on how this game is and its a great game. VG has its few buggs here and there but nothing that will keep people from lvling and doing thier own thing.
Falling tru the earth from time to time not a big deal /stuck out of it in 60 sec
Bugged quest who cares 1 million other quest to go do
Some items not working as they should bo ho they fix theese things every patch.
So my guess is the people that complain the most r they people that dont even play VG any more most on here talking crap have been doing so since a few weeks after the release and if they had so much to complain prob stoped playing right away so they got no idea what got fixed or what hasnt. To thoose people i got 1 thing to say: you aint got no idea what you talking about so might aswell shut up and play something else instead of wasting your time.
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin something to chew on........don't ya think?
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Is that the new Vanboi stance, that because there are starving children in Africa, we shouldn't complain about Vanguard's poor performance, broken content, incomplete features, etc.? You know what, it doesn't even matter what state Vanguard was or is in. The mere fact that you think that the plight of third world countries and the launch of VG are somehow comparable is moronic, and insulting.
Bad things are not justified by the presence of other bad things, that sort of mentality does not lead to improvement everywhere. If you're legitimately concerned about the behavior of State Leaders or the fate of children in the Third World, then go post on forums dealing with those issues. Raise awarenes for those issues and make an attempt to fix them, don't try hiding an MMO behind them, what the hell is wrong with you?
No..I don't think the problems with VG are related or comparable to world issues....
My point was...directed at people that complain so much about the state of todays online games at launch.....to put it in perspective. That..perhaps..If all these people would re-focus this energy on something actualy meaniful...perhaps we can help solve some of these issues..
The main point was to put things into perspective. To remind us....American folks..just how spoiled we are ( myself included ).
How about just being glad you are alive today and have the ability to entertaine yourself online..period. ?
There will be thousands if not millions today in this world that will not live to see the end of the day. Could be any of us even.
Perspective man...I'm talking about taking a step back and putting things into perspective. The starving children in Africa were just an example to emphasize a point.
I won't bother to explain further because if that is necessary...you wouldn't understand the answer anyways.
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin something to chew on........don't ya think?
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Is that the new Vanboi stance, that because there are starving children in Africa, we shouldn't complain about Vanguard's poor performance, broken content, incomplete features, etc.? You know what, it doesn't even matter what state Vanguard was or is in. The mere fact that you think that the plight of third world countries and the launch of VG are somehow comparable is moronic, and insulting.
Bad things are not justified by the presence of other bad things, that sort of mentality does not lead to improvement everywhere. If you're legitimately concerned about the behavior of State Leaders or the fate of children in the Third World, then go post on forums dealing with those issues. Raise awarenes for those issues and make an attempt to fix them, don't try hiding an MMO behind them, what the hell is wrong with you?
No..I don't think the problems with VG are related or comparable to world issues....
My point was...directed at people that complain so much about the state of todays online games at launch.....to put it in perspective. That..perhaps..If all these people would re-focus this energy on something actualy meaniful...perhaps we can help solve some of these issues..
The main point was to put things into perspective. To remind us....American folks..just how spoiled we are ( myself included ).
How about just being glad you are alive today and have the ability to entertaine yourself online..period. ?
There will be thousands if not millions today in this world that will not live to see the end of the day. Could be any of us even.
Perspective man...I'm talking about taking a step back and putting things into perspective. The starving children in Africa were just an example to emphasize a point.
I won't bother to explain further because if that is necessary...you wouldn't understand the answer anyways.
You don't seem to relise that your no different than the people that complain. You love VG, possibly more than anyone on these forums. Shouldn't you be directing your energy towards helping people? No?
Why not?
Oh wait you should?
I don't know what exactly your point was, your argument has little to do with this discussion.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin something to chew on........don't ya think?
Actually most people just got wind of how bad it sucked and did not buy it. Only reason for the "outcry" as you put it was the obvious shilling of the game by the fan boys who cannot seem to grasp that the vision turned out to be a bad dream.
...fan boys who cannot seem to grasp that the vision turned out to be a bad dream.
Jackdog, you really need to start recognizing that human beings have different opinions. You may see it as a bad dream, but in spite of your perspective, others may enjoy it, even though the sales of Vanguard have not been that what was initially planned by Sigil and SOE, there are still people who are having fun ingame. Now before you start to get jumpy and spam "VANBOI", I like vanguard, its fun, its not the best, about above average, I also like other games.
So:
You are not the only person on the world,
People have different opinions
Every game has its flaws, some more some less.
Things are not static, ie games may change (to the good or bad, but this also depends on the perspective).
My point was...directed at people that complain so much about the state of todays online games at launch.....to put it in perspective. That..perhaps..If all these people would re-focus this energy on something actualy meaniful...perhaps we can help solve some of these issues.
Oy. And the incoherence continues.
It's useful to have perspective about things, but not at the expense of your common sense and your self-respect. People should be savvy consumers, and should not accept shoddy or defective merchandise. MMO's shouldn't be treated any differently. Why? Because you have to pay to play them. For that reason alone, they should be polished, stable, and playable right out of the box, not 3-4 months down the line.
...should be savvy consumers, and should not accept shoddy or defective merchandise. MMO's shouldn't be treated any differently. Why? Because you have to pay to play them. For that reason alone, they should be polished, stable, and playable right out of the box, not 3-4 months down the line.
Sorry for intruding your discussion. But I will try to show your way of thinking by looking at it in a binary way as you do Lidane.
"shoddy and defective merchandise" its a similar discussion as to the glass of water discussion which is filled with 1/2 water.
Is it half full or half empty. some say its half full (fanbois) some say its half empty (haters). Get the hint?
Originally posted by Jackdog ...fan boys who cannot seem to grasp that the vision turned out to be a bad dream.
Jackdog, you really need to start recognizing that human beings have different opinions. You may see it as a bad dream, but in spite of your perspective, others may enjoy it, even though the sales of Vanguard have not been that what was initially planned by Sigil and SOE, there are still people who are having fun ingame. Now before you start to get jumpy and spam "VANBOI", I like vanguard, its fun, its not the best, about above average, I also like other games. So: You are not the only person on the world, People have different opinions Every game has its flaws, some more some less. Things are not static, ie games may change (to the good or bad, but this also depends on the perspective). and, what I have stated is just my opinion.
I doubt even Sigil would say that the release turned out to be what they desired it to be. Anyway it does not matter much now does it? Those who enjoy will continue to play it until they no longer enjoy it then they will move on. No way it will ever get the 400K subs that Sigil once announced that they expected. Between LoTRO, AoC, PoBS, and WAR they really should think about server consolidations to improve the grouping aspect for those still playing.
Originally posted by Tautology Sorry for intruding your discussion. But I will try to show your way of thinking by looking at it in a binary way as you do Lidane.
"shoddy and defective merchandise" its a similar discussion as to the glass of water discussion which is filled with 1/2 water. Is it half full or half empty. some say its half full (fanbois) some say its half empty (haters). Get the hint?
What? No. Not even close. Try again.
One's a matter of opinion, the other is a very basic consumer argument. Please don't confuse Vanguard being technically shoddy and defective with it being a good or bad game. I don't care if people like to play the game or if they hate it. What I'm talking about is the myriad of bugs, performance and optimization issues, and lack of standard technical features in this game that make it shoddy, not the quality of the gameplay.
You're confusing the two. I don't care about the gameplay of Vanguard, because I found it lacking and dull. What I've been talking about this entire thread are TECHNICAL issues with the game that make it subpar, and which make it defective. The code sucks. The game engine is trying to do things it's not designed for. And the only answer Sigil comes up with is that they're hoping that technology upgrades will force the issue of a stable, polished engine.
If VG was a car, people would return it to the dealership because it wasn't built right. If it was a kitchen appliance, they'd be heading back to Bed, Bath & Beyond for a refund or exchange because it only works part of the time. Why should an MMO be treated differently, especially if you're paying to play it? It's a product, just like anything else out there. And as consumers, we have the right to demand products that work right out of the box.
I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
Originally posted by Tautology Sorry for intruding your discussion. But I will try to show your way of thinking by looking at it in a binary way as you do Lidane.
"shoddy and defective merchandise" its a similar discussion as to the glass of water discussion which is filled with 1/2 water. Is it half full or half empty. some say its half full (fanbois) some say its half empty (haters). Get the hint?
What? No. Not even close. Try again.
One's a matter of opinion, the other is a very basic consumer argument. Please don't confuse Vanguard being technically shoddy and defective with it being a good or bad game. I don't care if people like to play the game or if they hate it. What I'm talking about is the myriad of bugs, performance and optimization issues, and lack of standard technical features in this game that make it shoddy, not the quality of the gameplay.
You're confusing the two. I don't care about the gameplay of Vanguard, because I found it lacking and dull. What I've been talking about this entire thread are TECHNICAL issues with the game that make it subpar, and which make it defective. The code sucks. The game engine is trying to do things it's not designed for. And the only answer Sigil comes up with is that they're hoping that technology upgrades will force the issue of a stable, polished engine.
If VG was a car, people would return it to the dealership because it wasn't built right. If it was a kitchen appliance, they'd be heading back to Bed, Bath & Beyond for a refund or exchange because it only works part of the time. Why should an MMO be treated differently, especially if you're paying to play it? It's a product, just like anything else out there. And as consumers, we have the right to demand products that work right out of the box.
I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
But it is not a car, neither a broken one.
I asked you once earlier in this thread if you told off vanboys to be fools.
I would say that most if not everyone would return a broken car or a broken kitchen thing. If they don't well then they are at least somewhat foolish.
But now people continues to play vanguard (the broken car) does that make them foolish.
Are they so stupid that they continues to play a game that dont work (*ffs*).
The game works it just didn't work so well for some specifik things. (And I doubt that a caresalesman would take back the car if the nonworking state of the depends on a flat tire.)
Some just see the speed, gameplay etc all in all as a half-full glass some don't they see it as half-empty.
The glass being half-full or half-empty stuff is nonsense.
It just doesn't make sense in the mmo industry.
The people enjoying the game now act like because Vanguard is not 'polished' or 'finished' that it has utmost potential. The fact is, all mmorpgs have potential, some mmorpgs also have alot more polish than others therefore their potential is much greater considering that they don't have to focus on fixing simple performance and gameplay issues whilst trying to relise their 'potential'.
You can choose to think the game will improve, or you can face the fact that the chances of this happening are very slim. There are alot of signs that point towards it's 'demise' (we know that mmorpgs can be hard to kill).
I hope the game will improve, but do I see it happening? From my experiance, no. Where does that put me?
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
The glass being half-full or half-empty stuff is nonsense. It just doesn't make sense in the mmo industry. The people enjoying the game now act like because Vanguard is not 'polished' or 'finished' that it has utmost potential. The fact is, all mmorpgs have potential, some mmorpgs also have alot more polish than others therefore their potential is much greater considering that they don't have to focus on fixing simple performance and gameplay issues whilst trying to relise their 'potential'. You can choose to think the game will improve, or you can face the fact that the chances of this happening are very slim. There are alot of signs that point towards it's 'demise' (we know that mmorpgs can be hard to kill). I hope the game will improve, but do I see it happening? From my experiance, no. Where does that put me?
And this is just your opinion. but you have no real idea on how the game will go now do you? Speculating like so many others.. I hope this game surprises you and all of the others that keep saying it will fail in the end. The same thing was said about Everquest 2 and look at where it is now, still alive and having plenty of years to be enjoyable. One of many games that proved many of you wrong.
The glass being half-full or half-empty stuff is nonsense. It just doesn't make sense in the mmo industry. The people enjoying the game now act like because Vanguard is not 'polished' or 'finished' that it has utmost potential. The fact is, all mmorpgs have potential, some mmorpgs also have alot more polish than others therefore their potential is much greater considering that they don't have to focus on fixing simple performance and gameplay issues whilst trying to relise their 'potential'. You can choose to think the game will improve, or you can face the fact that the chances of this happening are very slim. There are alot of signs that point towards it's 'demise' (we know that mmorpgs can be hard to kill). I hope the game will improve, but do I see it happening? From my experiance, no. Where does that put me?
And this is just your opinion. but you have no real idea on how the game will go now do you? Speculating like so many others.. I hope this game surprises you and all of the others that keep saying it will fail in the end. The same thing was said about Everquest 2 and look at where it is now, still alive and having plenty of years to be enjoyable. One of many games that proved many of you wrong.
Thank you oh wise and great one. For I did not know this.
No one has a real idea where the game is ahead, no one here can tell the future. I hope the game surprises me too, I have said that countless times.
5 years, 30-40 million dollars spent, poor release due to poor subscription numbers/poor performance for the unfortunate/and zero innovation. The poor subscription comment was based on what Brad has said, he hasn't properly revealed them yet I believe he stated that they are not what he would have liked them to be, then he stated a number under 200k but did not specify if they were active subscribers. Do you think he would reveal the numbers if they were good numbers? Of course he would. Why hasn't he then? I will leave that up to you to figure out.
I don't need to go on, if you think the game will hold you and improve over the future mmorpgs. Then be my guest and keep paying for it and hoping for the best.
I will just wait and see. Either way doesn't bother me.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Originally posted by Tautology Sorry for intruding your discussion. But I will try to show your way of thinking by looking at it in a binary way as you do Lidane.
"shoddy and defective merchandise" its a similar discussion as to the glass of water discussion which is filled with 1/2 water. Is it half full or half empty. some say its half full (fanbois) some say its half empty (haters). Get the hint?
What? No. Not even close. Try again.
One's a matter of opinion, the other is a very basic consumer argument. Please don't confuse Vanguard being technically shoddy and defective with it being a good or bad game. I don't care if people like to play the game or if they hate it. What I'm talking about is the myriad of bugs, performance and optimization issues, and lack of standard technical features in this game that make it shoddy, not the quality of the gameplay.
You're confusing the two. I don't care about the gameplay of Vanguard, because I found it lacking and dull. What I've been talking about this entire thread are TECHNICAL issues with the game that make it subpar, and which make it defective. The code sucks. The game engine is trying to do things it's not designed for. And the only answer Sigil comes up with is that they're hoping that technology upgrades will force the issue of a stable, polished engine.
If VG was a car, people would return it to the dealership because it wasn't built right. If it was a kitchen appliance, they'd be heading back to Bed, Bath & Beyond for a refund or exchange because it only works part of the time. Why should an MMO be treated differently, especially if you're paying to play it? It's a product, just like anything else out there. And as consumers, we have the right to demand products that work right out of the box.
I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
But it is not a car, neither a broken one.
I asked you once earlier in this thread if you told off vanboys to be fools.
I would say that most if not everyone would return a broken car or a broken kitchen thing. If they don't well then they are at least somewhat foolish.
But now people continues to play vanguard (the broken car) does that make them foolish.
Are they so stupid that they continues to play a game that dont work (*ffs*).
The game works it just didn't work so well for some specifik things. (And I doubt that a caresalesman would take back the car if the nonworking state of the depends on a flat tire.)
Some just see the speed, gameplay etc all in all as a half-full glass some don't they see it as half-empty.
Ok i hear what you have said and you make some very valid points regarding comparison to used cars for example. A little OTT maybe...
However Vanguard is a little more trajically flawed in terms of technical release quality than a half empty glass for a program founded on 30 million dollars and five years of development with the expectations born of Sigil developers themselves hyping the application as much as they could pre-release to the masses, only for these expectations to let down a majority of the customers in this online industry...vanguard doesnt have hatred...it has literally thousands upon thousands of disapointed players whom are voicing anguish and concern...if it was a technically good MMORPG let alone a technically great MMORPG on top of its fantastic potential we would all be playing along side you having fun. However a vast majority are not, and our argument is not of whether vanguard is a good game for the individual or not. Our argument is one as such that vanguard is a very technically subpar Gaming application to be released into an industry where the benchmarks and expectations have been raised so far beyond that which existed when the developers of Vanguard first entered the industry that the market then and the market now isnt even comparable. Alas for sometimes "better" or "worse" or both, market leaders tend to define basic consumer expecations. You have blizzard to thank for that and love or hate their child, it is quite simply a fact for the majority of a games playing public. Not Opinion, fact. Over 8 million subscribers and an expansion that sold 2.4million copies in its first 24 hours give it the right to be a business model example and to be considered a benchmark in "Technical" terms not "Individual terms" for this market and industry. And a technical benchmark it was and has been. Its engine scaled on a multitude of hardware across the mass public, and its level of release code and live implementation in regards to "Fulfilling its Objectives for the end customer" are unquestionable.
Two Mandates in this benchmark and business model that Sigil at present have completely disregarded with Vanguard and as it seems at present, to their detrement.
If you take the above into account and considering its recent press across the internet alone i am very pleased you have found vanguard to your tastes, honestly i am. However our argument of it being a good or bad game on its internal offerings to the individual player (or lack thereof) is neither here nor there...our argument is one of its total unsuitability on a technical level and of course performance level, that has disappointed massive amounts of players, for a game to be released into this market in this day and age.
In a previous post i believe i have strongly argued why i believe this game is far from "cutting edge", far from the developers claims of needing "Enthusiast Tech" to become mainstream and support there vision and application, and above all else far from being in any state too release to a broad market population. View my profile for the previous thread.
I am very pleased you enjoy Vanguard and i hope you continue to do so i really mean that. However i believe the argument myself and particularly Lidane are trying to make is one that this game is not in any fit state "technically" to be released now nor in the immediate future to hit what is and what should be expected by gamers in this new market where MMORPG's are no longer Niche products. They are mainstream products. And we have tried to constructively deliver why we and the majority believe this to be the case.
Face it. Sigil is not capable of fixing this game. If they dissolve Sigil and give the game to SOE maybe SOE can fix it but it will be much too late. There will be a handful of diehards (about 10-20k) but that is it. Asking Sigil to fix this game is like asking a retard to build a house. It simply can not be done.
SOE? Fix a game? OHHHHH you mean like they did swg, pardon me for a sec. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH! Ok im sorry, where were we? Oh yes SOE fix anything? Have they ever?
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I have to chuckle at the "I dont play it, so it wont succeed" arrogance of some of the posters.
If youre so confidant about this I wonder why youre so determined to bring down and close any threads that discuss VG in a positive light. Haters are sure getting a defensive and wary air about them nowadays. Not surprising really.
The game is making great advances and the further we are from the days of OB the more obvious is their lack actual knowledge of the game and its current state. New people thinking of joining the game couldnt really give a toss about its beta state or even its state at launch. What matters is what is happening in game right now, and the haters barely have a clue.
My point was...directed at people that complain so much about the state of todays online games at launch.....to put it in perspective. That..perhaps..If all these people would re-focus this energy on something actualy meaniful...perhaps we can help solve some of these issues.
Oy. And the incoherence continues.
It's useful to have perspective about things, but not at the expense of your common sense and your self-respect. People should be savvy consumers, and should not accept shoddy or defective merchandise. MMO's shouldn't be treated any differently. Why? Because you have to pay to play them. For that reason alone, they should be polished, stable, and playable right out of the box, not 3-4 months down the line.
I understand your perspective...however...how much are we really paying? I've figured out my expense to be about 10-20 cents an hour over the course of a year. Is that a major investment to play a game that cost over $30 million to make? It's at least $20 per person to go see a movie in a movie theater if you buy a drink and some popcorn. That's for a two hour movie that one generaly has little idea if they will even enjoy. This $10 an hour ...compared to 10-20 cents an hour. Vanguard ( or any mmo ) is a much better value than any other form of entertainment. My point is....it's such a good value....that one should either play the game of their choice or stfu. I just don't see much room to complain with entertainment that is such a great value.
It's always a trade off. You can get a nice , polished game like Lotr....but it's a small world that makes no attempts to break any molds. You can play a game trying to do new things...but with that comes more trial and error. Developing and maintaining a mmorpg is NOT an exact science. With the sheer size of VG combined with the fact that it is a seamless world combined with the numerous elements of gameplay involved indicate that it is a much, much, ....much more complex world than say ..Lotr, WoW...ect. The servers have to handle the AI for thousands..or tens of thousands of mobs all the time. Compared to a game that is instanced or small...they put a much lower load on the servers.
I like being a part of something massive..progressive...a mmorpg thats TRYING to push the envelope.
One can think of it as ...thought the Toyota Corolla is a fine car..and Toyota has sold millions of them...it's uninspired transportation. I would prefer to own/drive ...say....a Jaguar...despite the fact that requires more maintenance and that maintenance will be alot more expensive. Not to say anything is wrong with the Toyota Corolla....just saying the owners shouldn't go around braggin they have the best care simply because it is so popular.
I see games like WoW and Lotro as the Toyota Corollas of the mmorpg world. I see games like Vanguard as being the Jaguars. Not a perfect comparison...but accurate enough for this post...and the best I can do at 430 am....you know...just sayin
Comments
How many months a game needs to be launch ready is largely a function of how well and how fast the team implements their design, and the magnitude of that design. In this case, I think Vanguard was released years too early, not merely months, based on those criteria.
That's not to say the game can't be played at all, by someone. If that is the only standard it was released on time, if not late. But considering the state it is in, this title is barely ready for beta to start.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
LOL! You clearly didn't play CoH at launch. I've been in that game since closed beta, and I can tell you that it was far more polished and stable at launch than VG was in its beta. Compared to all the games I'd beta tested and launched by that point, CoH was probably the smoothest MMO launch I've seen so far, and Cryptic were a bunch of n00bs releasing their first game.
Were there issues with the game? Sure. There still are. But it was stable, polished, and playable when it went live. I know, because I was there.
Vanguard wasn't rough around the edges. It was unfinished, unpolished, and unoptimized. They don't even have two of the starting classes in the game, much less standard features like scalability and Anti-Aliasing. How anyone could look at the client they launched with and see anything other than an unfinished mess is beyond me.
Is there the shell of a good game in Vanguard? Yes. And it could be a good game in another year or so. Unfortunately, it got buried under a mountain of shoddy code and less than stellar polish and soul.
I wanted to like the game. I wanted to see it succeed for two reasons: (1) I actually like Brad, and don't think he's a bad guy, just an overwhelmed one, and (2) more choices for consumers is a GOOD thing. But the client they offered up at launch was unacceptable, and the continuing issues that I see around various forums simply don't justify calling this game anything but fubar for the next several months.
There are enough problems still out there that I don't think this is the case. Their performance issues alone don't offer any confidence, since they're desperately hoping that people dropping lots of cash on higher end rigs will magically fix all their problems in that regard.
People should expect a lot more from these games, especially at launch. They really should. Paying full retail and subscription fees for months after launch until the game finally staggers into some sort of playable state shouldn't be acceptable. It just shouldn't.
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin
something to chew on........don't ya think?
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Is that the new Vanboi stance, that because there are starving children in Africa, we shouldn't complain about Vanguard's poor performance, broken content, incomplete features, etc.? You know what, it doesn't even matter what state Vanguard was or is in. The mere fact that you think that the plight of third world countries and the launch of VG are somehow comparable is moronic, and insulting.
Bad things are not justified by the presence of other bad things, that sort of mentality does not lead to improvement everywhere. If you're legitimately concerned about the behavior of State Leaders or the fate of children in the Third World, then go post on forums dealing with those issues. Raise awarenes for those issues and make an attempt to fix them, don't try hiding an MMO behind them, what the hell is wrong with you?
Wow. That IS a new low by the vanbois.
Durrr they are starving in Africa so don't expect a good product or you are unethical durrrr.
Give me a break. I feel sorry for those people as much as any one else does, but they are a whole other situation.
Please, get a new tactic to force this game down people's throats. This one is bad.
See..this mentality is why people all over the world hate capitalist societies. We should EXPECT higher quality mmorpg launches? People are starving and dieing all over the world and we sit here expecting our video games HAVE to be perfect. I'm guilty too at times....just saying. To put things in perspective since so many seem to expect more from a video game than they do from the US President. ( seems like ) There is a bigger outcry if a game has a rough launch than if one of our Presidents gets a BJ in the White House and then lies his ass off when he gets caught. ..just sayin
something to chew on........don't ya think?
LOL! More jewels from Thamoris
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
BTW, there's nothing inherently wrong with expecting something to work properly out of the box when you buy it, especially if it took five years and $30+ million dollars to create.
After playing mmo's for the last 10 years and playing VG since beta i have to say i have enjoyed myself sofar playing the game.
We came over from WoW with a few people 7 or 8 and after making our guild in VG and getting to know the game its good fun still. Something i dont like other i do but overall i am content with the game. Being lvl 47 ATM Adv and lvl 39 Crafting and halfway into Diplomacy meaning i played all 3 spheres in the game give me a good idea on how this game is and its a great game. VG has its few buggs here and there but nothing that will keep people from lvling and doing thier own thing.
Falling tru the earth from time to time not a big deal /stuck out of it in 60 sec
Bugged quest who cares 1 million other quest to go do
Some items not working as they should bo ho they fix theese things every patch.
So my guess is the people that complain the most r they people that dont even play VG any more most on here talking crap have been doing so since a few weeks after the release and if they had so much to complain prob stoped playing right away so they got no idea what got fixed or what hasnt. To thoose people i got 1 thing to say: you aint got no idea what you talking about so might aswell shut up and play something else instead of wasting your time.
out of a 100 VG gets a 85 from me
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Is that the new Vanboi stance, that because there are starving children in Africa, we shouldn't complain about Vanguard's poor performance, broken content, incomplete features, etc.? You know what, it doesn't even matter what state Vanguard was or is in. The mere fact that you think that the plight of third world countries and the launch of VG are somehow comparable is moronic, and insulting.
Bad things are not justified by the presence of other bad things, that sort of mentality does not lead to improvement everywhere. If you're legitimately concerned about the behavior of State Leaders or the fate of children in the Third World, then go post on forums dealing with those issues. Raise awarenes for those issues and make an attempt to fix them, don't try hiding an MMO behind them, what the hell is wrong with you?
No..I don't think the problems with VG are related or comparable to world issues....
My point was...directed at people that complain so much about the state of todays online games at launch.....to put it in perspective. That..perhaps..If all these people would re-focus this energy on something actualy meaniful...perhaps we can help solve some of these issues..
The main point was to put things into perspective. To remind us....American folks..just how spoiled we are ( myself included ).
How about just being glad you are alive today and have the ability to entertaine yourself online..period. ?
There will be thousands if not millions today in this world that will not live to see the end of the day. Could be any of us even.
Perspective man...I'm talking about taking a step back and putting things into perspective. The starving children in Africa were just an example to emphasize a point.
I won't bother to explain further because if that is necessary...you wouldn't understand the answer anyways.
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Is that the new Vanboi stance, that because there are starving children in Africa, we shouldn't complain about Vanguard's poor performance, broken content, incomplete features, etc.? You know what, it doesn't even matter what state Vanguard was or is in. The mere fact that you think that the plight of third world countries and the launch of VG are somehow comparable is moronic, and insulting.
Bad things are not justified by the presence of other bad things, that sort of mentality does not lead to improvement everywhere. If you're legitimately concerned about the behavior of State Leaders or the fate of children in the Third World, then go post on forums dealing with those issues. Raise awarenes for those issues and make an attempt to fix them, don't try hiding an MMO behind them, what the hell is wrong with you?
No..I don't think the problems with VG are related or comparable to world issues....
My point was...directed at people that complain so much about the state of todays online games at launch.....to put it in perspective. That..perhaps..If all these people would re-focus this energy on something actualy meaniful...perhaps we can help solve some of these issues..
The main point was to put things into perspective. To remind us....American folks..just how spoiled we are ( myself included ).
How about just being glad you are alive today and have the ability to entertaine yourself online..period. ?
There will be thousands if not millions today in this world that will not live to see the end of the day. Could be any of us even.
Perspective man...I'm talking about taking a step back and putting things into perspective. The starving children in Africa were just an example to emphasize a point.
I won't bother to explain further because if that is necessary...you wouldn't understand the answer anyways.
You don't seem to relise that your no different than the people that complain. You love VG, possibly more than anyone on these forums. Shouldn't you be directing your energy towards helping people? No?
Why not?
Oh wait you should?
I don't know what exactly your point was, your argument has little to do with this discussion.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I miss DAoC
Jackdog, you really need to start recognizing that human beings have different opinions. You may see it as a bad dream, but in spite of your perspective, others may enjoy it, even though the sales of Vanguard have not been that what was initially planned by Sigil and SOE, there are still people who are having fun ingame. Now before you start to get jumpy and spam "VANBOI", I like vanguard, its fun, its not the best, about above average, I also like other games.
So:
You are not the only person on the world,
People have different opinions
Every game has its flaws, some more some less.
Things are not static, ie games may change (to the good or bad, but this also depends on the perspective).
and, what I have stated is just my opinion.
It's useful to have perspective about things, but not at the expense of your common sense and your self-respect. People should be savvy consumers, and should not accept shoddy or defective merchandise. MMO's shouldn't be treated any differently. Why? Because you have to pay to play them. For that reason alone, they should be polished, stable, and playable right out of the box, not 3-4 months down the line.
Sorry for intruding your discussion. But I will try to show your way of thinking by looking at it in a binary way as you do Lidane.
"shoddy and defective merchandise" its a similar discussion as to the glass of water discussion which is filled with 1/2 water.
Is it half full or half empty. some say its half full (fanbois) some say its half empty (haters). Get the hint?
I doubt even Sigil would say that the release turned out to be what they desired it to be. Anyway it does not matter much now does it? Those who enjoy will continue to play it until they no longer enjoy it then they will move on. No way it will ever get the 400K subs that Sigil once announced that they expected. Between LoTRO, AoC, PoBS, and WAR they really should think about server consolidations to improve the grouping aspect for those still playing.
I miss DAoC
One's a matter of opinion, the other is a very basic consumer argument. Please don't confuse Vanguard being technically shoddy and defective with it being a good or bad game. I don't care if people like to play the game or if they hate it. What I'm talking about is the myriad of bugs, performance and optimization issues, and lack of standard technical features in this game that make it shoddy, not the quality of the gameplay.
You're confusing the two. I don't care about the gameplay of Vanguard, because I found it lacking and dull. What I've been talking about this entire thread are TECHNICAL issues with the game that make it subpar, and which make it defective. The code sucks. The game engine is trying to do things it's not designed for. And the only answer Sigil comes up with is that they're hoping that technology upgrades will force the issue of a stable, polished engine.
If VG was a car, people would return it to the dealership because it wasn't built right. If it was a kitchen appliance, they'd be heading back to Bed, Bath & Beyond for a refund or exchange because it only works part of the time. Why should an MMO be treated differently, especially if you're paying to play it? It's a product, just like anything else out there. And as consumers, we have the right to demand products that work right out of the box.
I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
One's a matter of opinion, the other is a very basic consumer argument. Please don't confuse Vanguard being technically shoddy and defective with it being a good or bad game. I don't care if people like to play the game or if they hate it. What I'm talking about is the myriad of bugs, performance and optimization issues, and lack of standard technical features in this game that make it shoddy, not the quality of the gameplay.
You're confusing the two. I don't care about the gameplay of Vanguard, because I found it lacking and dull. What I've been talking about this entire thread are TECHNICAL issues with the game that make it subpar, and which make it defective. The code sucks. The game engine is trying to do things it's not designed for. And the only answer Sigil comes up with is that they're hoping that technology upgrades will force the issue of a stable, polished engine.
If VG was a car, people would return it to the dealership because it wasn't built right. If it was a kitchen appliance, they'd be heading back to Bed, Bath & Beyond for a refund or exchange because it only works part of the time. Why should an MMO be treated differently, especially if you're paying to play it? It's a product, just like anything else out there. And as consumers, we have the right to demand products that work right out of the box.
I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
But it is not a car, neither a broken one.
I asked you once earlier in this thread if you told off vanboys to be fools.
I would say that most if not everyone would return a broken car or a broken kitchen thing. If they don't well then they are at least somewhat foolish.
But now people continues to play vanguard (the broken car) does that make them foolish.
Are they so stupid that they continues to play a game that dont work (*ffs*).
The game works it just didn't work so well for some specifik things. (And I doubt that a caresalesman would take back the car if the nonworking state of the depends on a flat tire.)
Some just see the speed, gameplay etc all in all as a half-full glass some don't they see it as half-empty.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
The glass being half-full or half-empty stuff is nonsense.
It just doesn't make sense in the mmo industry.
The people enjoying the game now act like because Vanguard is not 'polished' or 'finished' that it has utmost potential. The fact is, all mmorpgs have potential, some mmorpgs also have alot more polish than others therefore their potential is much greater considering that they don't have to focus on fixing simple performance and gameplay issues whilst trying to relise their 'potential'.
You can choose to think the game will improve, or you can face the fact that the chances of this happening are very slim. There are alot of signs that point towards it's 'demise' (we know that mmorpgs can be hard to kill).
I hope the game will improve, but do I see it happening? From my experiance, no. Where does that put me?
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Thank you oh wise and great one. For I did not know this.
No one has a real idea where the game is ahead, no one here can tell the future. I hope the game surprises me too, I have said that countless times.
5 years, 30-40 million dollars spent, poor release due to poor subscription numbers/poor performance for the unfortunate/and zero innovation. The poor subscription comment was based on what Brad has said, he hasn't properly revealed them yet I believe he stated that they are not what he would have liked them to be, then he stated a number under 200k but did not specify if they were active subscribers. Do you think he would reveal the numbers if they were good numbers? Of course he would. Why hasn't he then? I will leave that up to you to figure out.
I don't need to go on, if you think the game will hold you and improve over the future mmorpgs. Then be my guest and keep paying for it and hoping for the best.
I will just wait and see. Either way doesn't bother me.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
One's a matter of opinion, the other is a very basic consumer argument. Please don't confuse Vanguard being technically shoddy and defective with it being a good or bad game. I don't care if people like to play the game or if they hate it. What I'm talking about is the myriad of bugs, performance and optimization issues, and lack of standard technical features in this game that make it shoddy, not the quality of the gameplay.
You're confusing the two. I don't care about the gameplay of Vanguard, because I found it lacking and dull. What I've been talking about this entire thread are TECHNICAL issues with the game that make it subpar, and which make it defective. The code sucks. The game engine is trying to do things it's not designed for. And the only answer Sigil comes up with is that they're hoping that technology upgrades will force the issue of a stable, polished engine.
If VG was a car, people would return it to the dealership because it wasn't built right. If it was a kitchen appliance, they'd be heading back to Bed, Bath & Beyond for a refund or exchange because it only works part of the time. Why should an MMO be treated differently, especially if you're paying to play it? It's a product, just like anything else out there. And as consumers, we have the right to demand products that work right out of the box.
I can't believe this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
But it is not a car, neither a broken one.
I asked you once earlier in this thread if you told off vanboys to be fools.
I would say that most if not everyone would return a broken car or a broken kitchen thing. If they don't well then they are at least somewhat foolish.
But now people continues to play vanguard (the broken car) does that make them foolish.
Are they so stupid that they continues to play a game that dont work (*ffs*).
The game works it just didn't work so well for some specifik things. (And I doubt that a caresalesman would take back the car if the nonworking state of the depends on a flat tire.)
Some just see the speed, gameplay etc all in all as a half-full glass some don't they see it as half-empty.
Ok i hear what you have said and you make some very valid points regarding comparison to used cars for example. A little OTT maybe...
However Vanguard is a little more trajically flawed in terms of technical release quality than a half empty glass for a program founded on 30 million dollars and five years of development with the expectations born of Sigil developers themselves hyping the application as much as they could pre-release to the masses, only for these expectations to let down a majority of the customers in this online industry...vanguard doesnt have hatred...it has literally thousands upon thousands of disapointed players whom are voicing anguish and concern...if it was a technically good MMORPG let alone a technically great MMORPG on top of its fantastic potential we would all be playing along side you having fun. However a vast majority are not, and our argument is not of whether vanguard is a good game for the individual or not. Our argument is one as such that vanguard is a very technically subpar Gaming application to be released into an industry where the benchmarks and expectations have been raised so far beyond that which existed when the developers of Vanguard first entered the industry that the market then and the market now isnt even comparable. Alas for sometimes "better" or "worse" or both, market leaders tend to define basic consumer expecations. You have blizzard to thank for that and love or hate their child, it is quite simply a fact for the majority of a games playing public. Not Opinion, fact. Over 8 million subscribers and an expansion that sold 2.4million copies in its first 24 hours give it the right to be a business model example and to be considered a benchmark in "Technical" terms not "Individual terms" for this market and industry. And a technical benchmark it was and has been. Its engine scaled on a multitude of hardware across the mass public, and its level of release code and live implementation in regards to "Fulfilling its Objectives for the end customer" are unquestionable.
Two Mandates in this benchmark and business model that Sigil at present have completely disregarded with Vanguard and as it seems at present, to their detrement.
If you take the above into account and considering its recent press across the internet alone i am very pleased you have found vanguard to your tastes, honestly i am. However our argument of it being a good or bad game on its internal offerings to the individual player (or lack thereof) is neither here nor there...our argument is one of its total unsuitability on a technical level and of course performance level, that has disappointed massive amounts of players, for a game to be released into this market in this day and age.
In a previous post i believe i have strongly argued why i believe this game is far from "cutting edge", far from the developers claims of needing "Enthusiast Tech" to become mainstream and support there vision and application, and above all else far from being in any state too release to a broad market population. View my profile for the previous thread.
I am very pleased you enjoy Vanguard and i hope you continue to do so i really mean that. However i believe the argument myself and particularly Lidane are trying to make is one that this game is not in any fit state "technically" to be released now nor in the immediate future to hit what is and what should be expected by gamers in this new market where MMORPG's are no longer Niche products. They are mainstream products. And we have tried to constructively deliver why we and the majority believe this to be the case.
Regards
Mag
Face it. Sigil is not capable of fixing this game. If they dissolve Sigil and give the game to SOE maybe SOE can fix it but it will be much too late. There will be a handful of diehards (about 10-20k) but that is it. Asking Sigil to fix this game is like asking a retard to build a house. It simply can not be done.
SOE? Fix a game? OHHHHH you mean like they did swg, pardon me for a sec. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH! Ok im sorry, where were we? Oh yes SOE fix anything? Have they ever?
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I have to chuckle at the "I dont play it, so it wont succeed" arrogance of some of the posters.
If youre so confidant about this I wonder why youre so determined to bring down and close any threads that discuss VG in a positive light. Haters are sure getting a defensive and wary air about them nowadays. Not surprising really.
The game is making great advances and the further we are from the days of OB the more obvious is their lack actual knowledge of the game and its current state. New people thinking of joining the game couldnt really give a toss about its beta state or even its state at launch. What matters is what is happening in game right now, and the haters barely have a clue.
It's useful to have perspective about things, but not at the expense of your common sense and your self-respect. People should be savvy consumers, and should not accept shoddy or defective merchandise. MMO's shouldn't be treated any differently. Why? Because you have to pay to play them. For that reason alone, they should be polished, stable, and playable right out of the box, not 3-4 months down the line.
I understand your perspective...however...how much are we really paying? I've figured out my expense to be about 10-20 cents an hour over the course of a year. Is that a major investment to play a game that cost over $30 million to make? It's at least $20 per person to go see a movie in a movie theater if you buy a drink and some popcorn. That's for a two hour movie that one generaly has little idea if they will even enjoy. This $10 an hour ...compared to 10-20 cents an hour. Vanguard ( or any mmo ) is a much better value than any other form of entertainment. My point is....it's such a good value....that one should either play the game of their choice or stfu. I just don't see much room to complain with entertainment that is such a great value.
It's always a trade off. You can get a nice , polished game like Lotr....but it's a small world that makes no attempts to break any molds. You can play a game trying to do new things...but with that comes more trial and error. Developing and maintaining a mmorpg is NOT an exact science. With the sheer size of VG combined with the fact that it is a seamless world combined with the numerous elements of gameplay involved indicate that it is a much, much, ....much more complex world than say ..Lotr, WoW...ect. The servers have to handle the AI for thousands..or tens of thousands of mobs all the time. Compared to a game that is instanced or small...they put a much lower load on the servers.
I like being a part of something massive..progressive...a mmorpg thats TRYING to push the envelope.
One can think of it as ...thought the Toyota Corolla is a fine car..and Toyota has sold millions of them...it's uninspired transportation. I would prefer to own/drive ...say....a Jaguar...despite the fact that requires more maintenance and that maintenance will be alot more expensive. Not to say anything is wrong with the Toyota Corolla....just saying the owners shouldn't go around braggin they have the best care simply because it is so popular.
I see games like WoW and Lotro as the Toyota Corollas of the mmorpg world. I see games like Vanguard as being the Jaguars. Not a perfect comparison...but accurate enough for this post...and the best I can do at 430 am....you know...just sayin