Hmm, I was under the impression that in order to obtain your gun permit, you are required to go through a course on how to handle it... and another class to obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm... at least thats the impression I got from my buddy who works at a shooting range in tennessee that offers such classes... The posts i read from some of the European members of this community seem to think they pass firearms out like bubble gum to the wicked citizens of American society...
Hmm, I was under the impression that in order to obtain your gun permit, you are required to go through a course on how to handle it... and another class to obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm... at least thats the impression I got from my buddy who works at a shooting range in tennessee that offers such classes... The posts i read from some of the European members of this community seem to think they pass firearms out like bubble gum to the wicked citizens of American society...
The requirements vary from state to state, but usually there is some training required (not enough IMO).
Yes, MANY (not all) of the non-US citizens here like to generalize in this forum while bashing the USA (YES there are alot of US citizens that like to do it as well, defending it).
That is why I'm still a member here! It great entertainment.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
I generalize less than the Europeans. I say there are law abiding citizens and outlaws. The Europeans tell us that everyone in the US are teetering on the edge of insanity.
______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
I generalize less than the Europeans...It's probably because Americans are just smarter in general, and Europeans don't shower very often. It's weird though because everybody in Australia is like a criminal and just sort of a European outcast...but it's fine because I'm American and that makes me smarter than both, and not a criminal. It's better than those lazy Mexicans though, man, those people are lazy. Not like Americans, Americans are hard working and righteous in all things, not like Mexicans.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I am a Canadian so I have a different view on this than most of you.
I think banning guns is just down right dumb. UNTILL... You ban the production, importing, selling, ownership of them. You can't do it half assed, thats when only the criminals are armed. If you stop making them, stop selling them, stop making them available, then no one needs them!
Up untill recently, Canada has been a pretty safe place, with less than 600 murders (of any kind) nationwide every year. In Toronto this year, we are on track to hit 400 alone. 85% of those... shootings. Where are the guns coming from? Smugled in from the USA.
Guns are made to kill, plain and simple. The army needs them, and thats about it. (look at England, the police don't carry them) but until you make it so no one can have a gun, criminal or law abiding citizen, don't make stupid rules that work in criminals favour.
To the guy comparing guns to knives, cars, and hands.
First off, as others have mentioned, all the other three have other uses, guns don't.
Second, to kill with a knife, you have to get a hell of a lot closer and actually get your hands dirty. Takes guts, something most of these mass murderers have very little of. Killing with a knife (be it animal or human) is a totally different thing than most anything else. Also, you think that if the kids in Columbine had only knives that the same amount of people would have died?
Third, to kill with your hands, takes training, sure anyone can get lucky, but it's not as easy as Hollywood would have you believe.
fourth, Killing with a car, where it does happen, most often it's by negligence and stupidity. Name me one seriel killer or mass murderer that killed only using cars?
Fifth, anyone, and I mean anyone can pick up a gun and be lethal. The very first time I shot a rifle (never seen a handgun in RL except on a cops hip) I hit the target deadon. It's a simple thing to do. It's not rocket science.
Sixth, guns are the great equilizer. Every schmoo too lazy to learn how to defend himself can pick up a gun and be a tough guy. Funny how most of the guys in prison for shooting people are the bitches to the guys with the balls to use another means.
Guns are for cowards. Period. end of rant
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self. --Aristotle
Few people have a car for self defense, and few people have a car to self defense. the only reason to have a gun is to kill. Cars have other uses and hands have other uses. Guns don't. And yes, I am against carrying knives on the street and other places (except for when you need a knife, for your job for example)
Many people won't use a gun for selfdefense, they will use a gun as a weapon when they get into fights with someone, even just vocal fights.
I loved the red part ^^ And I agree with you in general
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I know a lot of people may not agree with letting everybody have guns but I would like to point out one fact, back in the 20's quite a few people had what were known as pocket guns, small firearms that fit into a pocket or purse. While most people may point to organized crime and say it was a violent era that violence was between gangs, civilians were off limits. The average person on the street was safe and people were polite, one of the biggest reasons they were polite is because you never knew if the person you were talking to had a gun.
Arming the entire population may sound a bit crazy at first but tell me, how many of these wack jobs that walk into offices or schools and shoot everyone would be able to do so if everyone in that office was able to shoot back? Answer, damn few. If someone like that latest nut job were to walk into a campus and start shooting people and a few of those people had been armed the number of people dead would have been a hell of a lot lower.
We have the right, in the US to bear arms, the government nowadays does not want that because they think they may be used against them, they'd fear their own people a lot less if they'd just do their damn job instead of trying to control us. Incidents like what recently happened are used to try and remove that right but if even half those students had weapons there may have only been one wack job looking like swiss cheese instead of a lot of dead kids.
When you remove the right to carry guns the only people carrying them are criminals and they can use them against you without fear of you shooting back, me, I'd rather shoot back than just be a victim any day.
I know some will disagree with me but this is far from a perfect world, if you look at the crime rates from when people could carry guns and watch them over the years as legislation has taken those rights from people you'll see that all they've done is increase the violence. We've gone from a society that use to be able to leave it's front doors open and unlocked to bars on the windows all thanks to fear mongering legislation.
We were given these rights for a reason, they should not be lightly tossed aside. I don't advocate violence but neither should we allow ourselves to be victims.
So I went to visit the inlaws yesterday and low and behold, my mother in law brings up the gun debate when we were talking about VT. Since we had differing opinions at first (like almost any married man will tell you), after a lengthy debate, we came to the following conclusion:
1) Anyone who wants a gun, who is of legal driving age, should be allowed to apply and obtain a gun, provided they pass a background check as defined below.
2) A background check should be a bit more than just a NSA check for a national threat. It should consist of examining all Local, County, State and Federal files regarding the individual applying for the permit. If they broke any law in the past (undefined time period between 1-5 years. We didn't get to the details), they would be denied for a permit. In the argument where people claim people make mistakes and minor violations should not be held against them, you can't make a mistake with a gun, period. Some crimes, such as assault and such should provide a lifetime ban on obtaining a gun.
In addition to this, I believe that medical records should be evaluated as well and taken into account. If the person is on anti-depressants or any other mind altering drugs, they should be denied. People will scream that this is an invasion of privacy, but the bottom line is, guns ARE serious business and nobody is saying you have to have one, but if you want one, you should be willing to forego this privacy.
Anyway, that's pretty much where our discussion ended. My mother in law wanted to extend the banning to introverts in general, which, is insane. She said that everytime you hear someone interviewed who knew the killer, they always say "He was such a quiet person...". I told her for everyone one introvert who goes off killing people, there's hundreds, perhaps thousands who don't. I'm not sure she agreed with me there, but, that's why they are my in-laws.
Comments
The requirements vary from state to state, but usually there is some training required (not enough IMO).
Yes, MANY (not all) of the non-US citizens here like to generalize in this forum while bashing the USA (YES there are alot of US citizens that like to do it as well, defending it).
That is why I'm still a member here! It great entertainment.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
I generalize less than the Europeans. I say there are law abiding citizens and outlaws. The Europeans tell us that everyone in the US are teetering on the edge of insanity.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I am a Canadian so I have a different view on this than most of you.
I think banning guns is just down right dumb. UNTILL... You ban the production, importing, selling, ownership of them. You can't do it half assed, thats when only the criminals are armed. If you stop making them, stop selling them, stop making them available, then no one needs them!
Up untill recently, Canada has been a pretty safe place, with less than 600 murders (of any kind) nationwide every year. In Toronto this year, we are on track to hit 400 alone. 85% of those... shootings. Where are the guns coming from? Smugled in from the USA.
Guns are made to kill, plain and simple. The army needs them, and thats about it. (look at England, the police don't carry them) but until you make it so no one can have a gun, criminal or law abiding citizen, don't make stupid rules that work in criminals favour.
To the guy comparing guns to knives, cars, and hands.
First off, as others have mentioned, all the other three have other uses, guns don't.
Second, to kill with a knife, you have to get a hell of a lot closer and actually get your hands dirty. Takes guts, something most of these mass murderers have very little of. Killing with a knife (be it animal or human) is a totally different thing than most anything else. Also, you think that if the kids in Columbine had only knives that the same amount of people would have died?
Third, to kill with your hands, takes training, sure anyone can get lucky, but it's not as easy as Hollywood would have you believe.
fourth, Killing with a car, where it does happen, most often it's by negligence and stupidity. Name me one seriel killer or mass murderer that killed only using cars?
Fifth, anyone, and I mean anyone can pick up a gun and be lethal. The very first time I shot a rifle (never seen a handgun in RL except on a cops hip) I hit the target deadon. It's a simple thing to do. It's not rocket science.
Sixth, guns are the great equilizer. Every schmoo too lazy to learn how to defend himself can pick up a gun and be a tough guy. Funny how most of the guys in prison for shooting people are the bitches to the guys with the balls to use another means.
Guns are for cowards. Period. end of rant
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.
--Aristotle
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY
Gun training, you say? Professional, you say?
I know a lot of people may not agree with letting everybody have guns but I would like to point out one fact, back in the 20's quite a few people had what were known as pocket guns, small firearms that fit into a pocket or purse. While most people may point to organized crime and say it was a violent era that violence was between gangs, civilians were off limits. The average person on the street was safe and people were polite, one of the biggest reasons they were polite is because you never knew if the person you were talking to had a gun.
Arming the entire population may sound a bit crazy at first but tell me, how many of these wack jobs that walk into offices or schools and shoot everyone would be able to do so if everyone in that office was able to shoot back? Answer, damn few. If someone like that latest nut job were to walk into a campus and start shooting people and a few of those people had been armed the number of people dead would have been a hell of a lot lower.
We have the right, in the US to bear arms, the government nowadays does not want that because they think they may be used against them, they'd fear their own people a lot less if they'd just do their damn job instead of trying to control us. Incidents like what recently happened are used to try and remove that right but if even half those students had weapons there may have only been one wack job looking like swiss cheese instead of a lot of dead kids.
When you remove the right to carry guns the only people carrying them are criminals and they can use them against you without fear of you shooting back, me, I'd rather shoot back than just be a victim any day.
I know some will disagree with me but this is far from a perfect world, if you look at the crime rates from when people could carry guns and watch them over the years as legislation has taken those rights from people you'll see that all they've done is increase the violence. We've gone from a society that use to be able to leave it's front doors open and unlocked to bars on the windows all thanks to fear mongering legislation.
We were given these rights for a reason, they should not be lightly tossed aside. I don't advocate violence but neither should we allow ourselves to be victims.
µV
So I went to visit the inlaws yesterday and low and behold, my mother in law brings up the gun debate when we were talking about VT. Since we had differing opinions at first (like almost any married man will tell you), after a lengthy debate, we came to the following conclusion:
1) Anyone who wants a gun, who is of legal driving age, should be allowed to apply and obtain a gun, provided they pass a background check as defined below.
2) A background check should be a bit more than just a NSA check for a national threat. It should consist of examining all Local, County, State and Federal files regarding the individual applying for the permit. If they broke any law in the past (undefined time period between 1-5 years. We didn't get to the details), they would be denied for a permit. In the argument where people claim people make mistakes and minor violations should not be held against them, you can't make a mistake with a gun, period. Some crimes, such as assault and such should provide a lifetime ban on obtaining a gun.
In addition to this, I believe that medical records should be evaluated as well and taken into account. If the person is on anti-depressants or any other mind altering drugs, they should be denied. People will scream that this is an invasion of privacy, but the bottom line is, guns ARE serious business and nobody is saying you have to have one, but if you want one, you should be willing to forego this privacy.
Anyway, that's pretty much where our discussion ended. My mother in law wanted to extend the banning to introverts in general, which, is insane. She said that everytime you hear someone interviewed who knew the killer, they always say "He was such a quiet person...". I told her for everyone one introvert who goes off killing people, there's hundreds, perhaps thousands who don't. I'm not sure she agreed with me there, but, that's why they are my in-laws.