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Free MMORPG's suck. Yes, the one you're playing too.

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  • guinefortguinefort Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by gillvane1

    Title pretty much says it. Either the game just plain sucks, OR it is close to decent (but honestly I havent' seen one yet) and you have to buy items from the cash store, which means it isn't really free.



    I can't for the life of me understand why anyone plays the free MMORPGs, since they are so craptacular. Have you ever bought a new computer game? They usually cost around 50 bucks. That's enough money to pay for a few months subscription to a decent MMORPG, rather than playing some free piece of doo doo. Go sell some lemonade, or save your allowance, and buy a decent game and pay the sub if you want to play online, IMO. The "free" stuff is nothing more than a waste of bandwidth.
    Did a free game bite you in the ass or something? They are just an alternative to P2P games, because some people really can't play games that you need a credit card for. Don't insult people just because they choose to do something different than you. Many free games are really fun for some people. Apparently enough people like Voyage Century and Rappelz to put it in the top 15 game titles on this site. Don't be an ignorant ass, or at least be nice about your opinions, instead of insulting anyone who has ever played a free game. For the record, way more people play F2P than P2P games.
  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697
    Originally posted by guinefort



    For the record, way more people play F2P than P2P games.



    I'd love to see the numbers on this one.

    Oh... and you can get prepaid credit cards to play normal subscription based games.  Google for it, and you will find some reputable companies that offer them.

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  • ForcanForcan Member UncommonPosts: 700
    Originally posted by Dreneth

    Originally posted by almout30



    And last but not least, why in gods name would you care about what people like to play and what not?



    Why do you care that I care? 

    It's a discussion on a forum.  That's all.

    I do, however, wish that the whole "gimmie gimmie" attitude would fall away.  So many people looking for something for nothing.  Every thread I see for a free game is one more subscription that could have gone to a decent game's development.  Others see it differently.  Life moves on.



    Well, the "gimmie gimmie" attitude would not fall away, since it just manifest itself in other ways for everyone (i.e. the attitude you see in most loot-based game are of the same attitude manifest differently.  That is not that say that craft-based game doesn't have it, but it's manifest differently.)



    That aside, it seem that you don't like free games since you believe that decent must be pay to play.  Hmm.. that logic is flawed since no one trust a new company who makes a pay to play game, and will be hesitant to buy and pay.  Other would simply not having the ability to buy and pay to play.  In this case, how would any new company bringing new and innovating ideas to the genre since all you got are the major companies developing what THEY think is good, and might in fact not appeal for many...  just something to think about.



    As for free game, it IS a more popular way, and a better way of business in Asian MMO market, although there are still pay to play ones, the majority are free to play.  It's just how they are cater toward their customer, and you are not the ones they are catering for.  As for the US adaptation of this method, not everyone likes it, but it does work on its own. 



    And you mentioned virus and trojans.  Well, their software might not have it, but who knows, there may be rotten apple in the bunch that has it, but the majority will be good.  But if you're so fearful of this, get a good anti-virus system and be done with it... not a big deal.

    Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

    Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  • MuppetHeroMuppetHero Member Posts: 208
    "this game sucks" is relitive. Fun is in the hands of the beholder. There are some die hard DnL fans out there. and that is arguably the worst game to date. One mans trash is another mans treusre. So why do people feel the need to trash other peoples "fun games" there is enough room in the world for all of them. and if people dont play it at all then they go away.

    Conservatism.
    Just old white men trying to find ways to legalize discrimination, and make the poor poorer

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Dreneth

    Originally posted by guinefort



    For the record, way more people play F2P than P2P games.



    I'd love to see the numbers on this one.

    Oh... and you can get prepaid credit cards to play normal subscription based games.  Google for it, and you will find some reputable companies that offer them.

    Well, just a small example, Scions of Fate holds 600k concurent users worldwide (that is 600k people online at the same time). Most MMORPG's don't even have that many total subscribers, let alone concurrent users.
  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697
    Originally posted by Forcan



    Well, the "gimmie gimmie" attitude would not fall away, since it just manifest itself in other ways for everyone (i.e. the attitude you see in most loot-based game are of the same attitude manifest differently.  That is not that say that craft-based game doesn't have it, but it's manifest differently.)

     

    A game which offers free access gets its revenue from somewhere else...  item shops or advertising.  If it's an item shop, that means that development is focused on making items people want to buy, adjusting mechanics to require some of those items, or cutting back development when enough people play and DON'T use the stupid item shop at all.  And advertising in a game is just obnoxious.

     

    Originally posted by Forcan



    That aside, it seem that you don't like free games since you believe that decent must be pay to play.  Hmm.. that logic is flawed since no one trust a new company who makes a pay to play game, and will be hesitant to buy and pay.  Other would simply not having the ability to buy and pay to play.  In this case, how would any new company bringing new and innovating ideas to the genre since all you got are the major companies developing what THEY think is good, and might in fact not appeal for many...  just something to think about.

     

    I don't like the idea of item shops, in-game advertisement, or the sort of people that feel entitled to free MMO's.  The logic isn't flawed, it's actually well thought out and functioning.  I wouldn't trust the sort of company that would develop a game with an item shop, as the game is geared more towards selling virtual goods for RL cash.  There are many legal ways to get a "credit card" number... such as a prepaid credit card or a debit card with your checking account.  At least there is here in the US.  And the quality of every F2P game I have seen is absolute crap compared to that of subscription based games.

     

    Originally posted by Forcan



    As for free game, it IS a more popular way, and a better way of business in Asian MMO market, although there are still pay to play ones, the majority are free to play.  It's just how they are cater toward their customer, and you are not the ones they are catering for.  As for the US adaptation of this method, not everyone likes it, but it does work on its own. 

     

    More popular in Asia?  Keep it there then.  I hate the mentality that goes with it, the sense of entitlement, and the development focus on scamming players into buying a digital T-shirt for RL cash.  I would rather see players move away from the "something for nothing" mentality and move towards more traditional subscription based models.  I have nothing but respect for the various cultures throughout Asia, but I am not at all fond of the MMO market there.  I would rather not see it come here.

     

    Originally posted by Forcan



    And you mentioned virus and trojans.  Well, their software might not have it, but who knows, there may be rotten apple in the bunch that has it, but the majority will be good.  But if you're so fearful of this, get a good anti-virus system and be done with it... not a big deal.

     

    I've never stated I was worried about it.  How could I worry about getting a virus from games I would never play?  lol

    Besides... I stated that I would be curious to see the statistics.  Never claimed that lots of F2P games had them.  Nice attempt at putting words in my mouth though.  lol 

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  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Well, just a small example, Scions of Fate holds 600k concurent users worldwide (that is 600k people online at the same time). Most MMORPG's don't even have that many total subscribers, let alone concurrent users.

    Cite your sources.

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  • gillvane1gillvane1 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,503
    Originally posted by thetank

    Runescape, SilkRoad, Flyff and Rapellz are examples of "free games" that are quite amusing but they lack longevity..

    Still alot of people play it and enjoy it and some cant even afford to play games with monthly fees.



    And Guild Wars is a free game altough you'll have to buy the CD and it's GREAT.



    Oh and was it isnt up to you tell if the games sucks or no.. its up to the player base that support it...
    Obviously whether or not you enjoy a game is a matter of opinion. But none of those games, IMO, come close to the level of a decent game, one that I would spend time playing, free or for money.



    Granted, I'm a jaded MMORPG player, and my standards are going to be much higher than someone that hasn't played most of the top titles that have been released. I also have some preferences and biases that are particular to my likes and dislikes. For example, I don't like anime, so it doesn't help that many free games are of the big-eyed, spikey haired, cartoon variety. I also won't settle for anything less than WASD movement, so if it's point and click, it's definitely not going to make the grade.



    I don't, however, require bleeding edge graphics. Vanguard quality graphics, turned up all the way, are pretty, but not necessary for a good game. If you enjoy playing a "free" mmorpg, good for you. But, IMO, most of them don't meet the standards that would include them in most of the discussion topics on this forum.



    MMORPGs are cheap, cheap, cheap, even with a monthly sub fee. You might pay 50 bucks for the box, but if it's an older title it's probaby only 20 bucks for the box. Then maybe 15 bucks a month. Take the higher price of 50 bucks and do the math. If you play for 6 months, easy with a decent MMORPG, you add 15 bucks a month to the 50 dollar box price and get  $23.33 a month. Most 50 dollar single player games don't even last a month, so a good MMORPG is not a bad deal in comparison. On the other hand, a good FPS is an even better deal. 50 bucks for the box, and usually free to play online, with several months of entertaining gameplay. I still play Call of Duty 2 once in a while.



    Supposedly GW2 will have persistance similar to WoW, but still be free. I don't know how that works for them, or why they aren't planning to charge a sub fee since many people would pay it, but when that releases if it turns out like many think it will, GW2 will be one of the first worth while MMORPGs that are actually free. No cash store, no monthly subs, nothing but buy the box and play.
  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Dreneth


    Originally posted by Gameloading
    Well, just a small example, Scions of Fate holds 600k concurent users worldwide (that is 600k people online at the same time). Most MMORPG's don't even have that many total subscribers, let alone concurrent users.
    Cite your sources. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/275/setView/features/loadFeature/1024



    "Currently we have over 35 million international users with a record of concurrent users breaking the 600,000 mark"
  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697
    Originally posted by Gameloading

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/275/setView/features/loadFeature/1024



    "Currently we have over 35 million international users with a record of concurrent users breaking the 600,000 mark"



    1) There are a hell of a lot more people in Asia than in the US.  You left out the part that the statistic listed there is from Asian markets.

    2) Never believe player polulation statistics not researced by an independent firm.

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  • ForcanForcan Member UncommonPosts: 700
    Originally posted by Dreneth
    A game which offers free access gets its revenue from somewhere else...  item shops or advertising.  If it's an item shop, that means that development is focused on making items people want to buy, adjusting mechanics to require some of those items, or cutting back development when enough people play and DON'T use the stupid item shop at all.  And advertising in a game is just obnoxious.
    I don't like the idea of item shops, in-game advertisement, or the sort of people that feel entitled to free MMO's.  The logic isn't flawed, it's actually well thought out and functioning.  I wouldn't trust the sort of company that would develop a game with an item shop, as the game is geared more towards selling virtual goods for RL cash.  There are many legal ways to get a "credit card" number... such as a prepaid credit card or a debit card with your checking account.  At least there is here in the US.  And the quality of every F2P game I have seen is absolute crap compared to that of subscription based games.
    More popular in Asia?  Keep it there then.  I hate the mentality that goes with it, the sense of entitlement, and the development focus on scamming players into buying a digital T-shirt for RL cash.  I would rather see players move away from the "something for nothing" mentality and move towards more traditional subscription based models.  I have nothing but respect for the various cultures throughout Asia, but I am not at all fond of the MMO market there.  I would rather not see it come here.
    Well, from all that's mentioned, this is clear:  You don't like F2P games, and they are not for you.  There's nothing else to say about that.  You are probably not the group of gamers that the company are looking for anyways, but that's ok.  Everyone likes different things, so you get what you want, and others get what they want.  (and I still don't get what I want after SWG Pre-CU is dead.. *sigh*)...

    Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

    Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Dreneth

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/275/setView/features/loadFeature/1024



    "Currently we have over 35 million international users with a record of concurrent users breaking the 600,000 mark"



    1) There are a hell of a lot more people in Asia than in the US.  You left out the part that the statistic listed there is from Asian markets.

    2) Never believe player polulation statistics not researced by an independent firm.

    the entire mmorpg market in Asia is bigger then in the west,that is no secret. But the thing is, Asia changed from a subscribtion based sysem to an item shop system. Clearly hinting that free to play is more popular then pay to play (at least over there). If its in asia is not the issue, you asked for numbers so I gave you some.



    Also, I see no reason to doubt these numbers. If you know a better source or come up with evidence that we can't trust those numbers, then I'd like to see it.
  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    the entire mmorpg market in Asia is bigger then in the west,that is no secret. But the thing is, Asia changed from a subscribtion based sysem to an item shop system. Clearly hinting that free to play is more popular then pay to play (at least over there). If its in asia is not the issue, you asked for numbers so I gave you some.

     

    I could give you statistics too... and they won't be relevant either.  I suppose I should be more specific when I am talking to you.

     

    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Also, I see no reason to doubt these numbers. If you know a better source or come up with evidence that we can't trust those numbers, then I'd like to see it.

     

    Common sense might be one reason.  It's never good practice to take anything at face value, especially not sales figures directly from the sales organization. 

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  • Unknown
    Originally posted by Dreneth

    Originally posted by poopypants



    When people shell-out a measly $15 bucks a month - which is less than half of what it costs for a little kids school lunch each month - then they shouldn't expect to get a kick-ass state-of-the-art MMOG.



    Don't be a silly boy.

    Take, for example, a game population of 10,000 active subscriptions.  Now multiply that by $14.99.  You get $149,000.00 per month in revenue.  That's $1,798,800.00 annually on monthly subscriptions alone.  Retail sales cover the packaging design and distribution, and don't forget about expansion sales.  That's a hell of a balogna sandwich.

    This is why developers don't have to make good games...'cause they know that there's gonna be at least 10,000 simpletons that will give them half their lunch money ($14.99) every month for some half-assed POS game!
  • RazperilRazperil Member Posts: 289
    Originally posted by gillvane1

    Title pretty much says it. Either the game just plain sucks, OR it is close to decent (but honestly I havent' seen one yet) and you have to buy items from the cash store, which means it isn't really free.



    I can't for the life of me understand why anyone plays the free MMORPGs, since they are so craptacular. Have you ever bought a new computer game? They usually cost around 50 bucks. That's enough money to pay for a few months subscription to a decent MMORPG, rather than playing some free piece of doo doo. Go sell some lemonade, or save your allowance, and buy a decent game and pay the sub if you want to play online, IMO. The "free" stuff is nothing more than a waste of bandwidth.
    This is all in your own opinion as crappy as it might be. And if you want to understand how people are, take courses on it. Or better yet, interact with them. There are some really decent free to play games out there. And some good advice for you would to stick to your pay to play games and let the rest of the people that enjoy playing the free to play games, play them.
  • gillvane1gillvane1 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,503
    Originally posted by Razperil

    Originally posted by gillvane1

    Title pretty much says it. Either the game just plain sucks, OR it is close to decent (but honestly I havent' seen one yet) and you have to buy items from the cash store, which means it isn't really free.



    I can't for the life of me understand why anyone plays the free MMORPGs, since they are so craptacular. Have you ever bought a new computer game? They usually cost around 50 bucks. That's enough money to pay for a few months subscription to a decent MMORPG, rather than playing some free piece of doo doo. Go sell some lemonade, or save your allowance, and buy a decent game and pay the sub if you want to play online, IMO. The "free" stuff is nothing more than a waste of bandwidth.
    This is all in your own opinion as crappy as it might be. And if you want to understand how people are, take courses on it. Or better yet, interact with them. There are some really decent free to play games out there. And some good advice for you would to stick to your pay to play games and let the rest of the people that enjoy playing the free to play games, play them.

    I can't do that. It's all part of my grand scheme to have the government subsidize MMORPGs, so that no one in america at least, has to play a crappy F2P MMORPG, and we can all live up to our gaming potential.





    MMORPG Maker
  • BleehBleeh Member Posts: 116
    I play a free MMO called Life.  I am a level 10 Computer Nerd with a +5 Wallet.  Unfortunately, I have a -3 Beer Gut of Failing to Score at Bars.  I try to drop it, but I can't.  It's cursed. 

    Guild Wars is still an MMO.

  • RazperilRazperil Member Posts: 289
    Originally posted by Dreneth

    Originally posted by guinefort



    For the record, way more people play F2P than P2P games.



    I'd love to see the numbers on this one.

    Oh... and you can get prepaid credit cards to play normal subscription based games.  Google for it, and you will find some reputable companies that offer them.


    Actually this isn't far from the truth. Since you have never played a free to play MMO, you wouldn't know now would you? I've played quite a few of the free to play MMO's out there and I've never once had problems with hacks, viruses, or anything of that degree. I think if being on the internet is so scary for you, and you're so worried about getting a virus, just unplug your internet connection. That'll solve all of your worries. The free to play MMO's are there to be fun and enjoyable for everyone. And like a lot of people have already said, some people are on a set income. And I for one am glad free to play MMO's exist.
  • Unknown
    There is no such thing as a free mmo, you pay for it one way or another.
  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Dreneth


    Originally posted by Gameloading
    the entire mmorpg market in Asia is bigger then in the west,that is no secret. But the thing is, Asia changed from a subscribtion based sysem to an item shop system. Clearly hinting that free to play is more popular then pay to play (at least over there). If its in asia is not the issue, you asked for numbers so I gave you some.

     

    I could give you statistics too... and they won't be relevant either.  I suppose I should be more specific when I am talking to you.

     

    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Also, I see no reason to doubt these numbers. If you know a better source or come up with evidence that we can't trust those numbers, then I'd like to see it.

     

    Common sense might be one reason.  It's never good practice to take anything at face value, especially not sales figures directly from the sales organization. 

    Yes, because we all know companies can throw out random numbers and nobody will ever check on them.



    I guess thats why Gravity got sued because they lied about their subscribtion numbers.
  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697
    Originally posted by poopypants

    This is why developers don't have to make good games...'cause they know that there's gonna be at least 10,000 simpletons that will give them half their lunch money ($14.99) every month for some half-assed POS game!



    It's funny seeing you defend F2P games as superior, you must really have missed the bus on this one.  Or perhaps, you are too young to have a credit card?  Either way...  if you truly think that your F2P games are the better choice... I am glad you are on your side of the fence.  lol

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  • NazarosNazaros Member Posts: 215
    Originally posted by MuppetHero

    "this game sucks" is relitive. Fun is in the hands of the beholder. There are some die hard DnL fans out there. and that is arguably the worst game to date. One mans trash is another mans treusre. So why do people feel the need to trash other peoples "fun games" there is enough room in the world for all of them. and if people dont play it at all then they go away.



    I STRONGLY disagree with such a statement. If idiots are buying flawed products like DNL, (Or any other similar pile of rubbish) it's sending the message to this industry that the player base is dumb, and ready to buy ANYTHING they can pull out of their asses. No need to polish a game, not even the need for it to be PLAYABLE anymore... WTF???

    I will always trash idiots encouraging crappy games, because free or not, your product should deliver an acceptable leverage of quality and i'll always fight for that. But this goes beyond the free or pay to play games. The original poster seem to presume that because you pay for a game, it is necessarily good or even better then a free game, well he is WRONG. Out of the hundreds of MMO title outhere that you have to pay for, only a dozen (and i'm generous) are actually worth the money you put in. They are stable enough, with good quality graphics and with regular updates. Notice i didn't even say FUN here, because in my book, most of them mainstream like WoW aren't even fun, unless you have a mental age around 13 or below. But it's a topic about quality here. WoW "is" a quality product.

    Now, fact and matter is: You usually get more out of a game you pay for. But sometimes, (just sometimes...) you have free games that give you great value over the time you spend on it. That is as rare as finding a blood diamond into any african swamp though, and it will require you to dig up places who didn't even know existed before starting your research...

    What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...

  • D4rv3nD4rv3n Member Posts: 164
    Well, I kind of agree with you, but the main reason why people wont play P2P MMORPG's is because they don't know what their like, and they dont wanna spend money on something their not gonna like, that's why some games give out trials, in my opinion P2P games that give no trials are shit, and im sure they would get more people if they had a trial then if people buy them from time to time
  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697
    Originally posted by Razperil



    Actually this isn't far from the truth. Since you have never played a free to play MMO, you wouldn't know now would you?

     

    The second you put words into my mouth, you lost any potential for me taking you seriously.

     

    Originally posted by Razperil



    I've played quite a few of the free to play MMO's out there and I've never once had problems with hacks, viruses, or anything of that degree. I think if being on the internet is so scary for you, and you're so worried about getting a virus, just unplug your internet connection. That'll solve all of your worries.

     

    You don't really read posts before you respond to them, eh?  lol

     

    Originally posted by Razperil



    The free to play MMO's are there to be fun and enjoyable for everyone. And like a lot of people have already said, some people are on a set income. And I for one am glad free to play MMO's exist.

     

    I never said get rid of them all... I said I would never play one and I feel they are no where near the same level of quality as many subscription based games.

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  • DrenethDreneth Member Posts: 697
    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Yes, because we all know companies can throw out random numbers and nobody will ever check on them.



    I guess thats why Gravity got sued because they lied about their subscribtion numbers.
    If nothing else Gameloading, you are really fun to argue with...  you say the cutest things!  hehehe

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