I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from......
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
I can see SOE do more for the game then Sigil can. They really made EQ2 a playable game after a really botched launch. Even though the NGE was a very very failed business plan it is becoming very good again. So either SOE will keep the game the same, or they will make it a lot more playable.
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
One thing that always puzzles me is if you like a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who marries his girlfriend and then you ignore her... lol
I dont think SOE taking it over would be a big problem, the MMOs where SOE had complete control have actually had reasonable success, EQ was number one in its prime and is still going, PS did well and is still fairly unique, EQ2 lost out to WoWmania originally but has since recovered and is now a very well done and run product (overtaking WoW in my opinion since the release of EQ2:EoF and WoW:TBC). SOEs main failing was SWG, but a large part of that was that they didnt have complete control over it, they had to run every change past Lucas Arts/George Lucas, even so it was successful until the release of WoW after which point they took desperate measures to try to recover some of the lost player base (i.e. CU and NGE).
Are you so sure SOE has a "good" track record?
Planetside is just a cheap clone of every first person shooter with a price tag. Not what should be considered innovative at all. Nothing special, but I have no idea of its success rate. I have noticed no one else has even attempted anything like this so I would be inclined to think failure.
EQ was a smash success before Sony took over. They had nothing to do with how great the game already was, they do however have much to do with how terrible the game became. The pinnacle was the player driven boycott of their expansions which forced sony to fly players to their HQ so they could talk about how much they really cared. What other MMO company has caused such outrage as to generate a succesful boycott amongst other problems?
SWG was all sonys baby. You notice no one credits Lucas Arts for the success of KOTOR, they credit Bioware. Why Sony should get a pass for doing the exact opposite I don't know. The game wasn't even successful before WoW thats why they did the first Combat Upgrade. The fastest selling MMO in history at its launch and it never got more than 50% of EQs subscribers? The game flatlined in the first 6 months, WoW had nothing to do with its failure.
EQ2 was a boring lifeless dumbed down EQ clone with all the grind, forced grouping and time sinks. The game with the biggest budget in MMO history from the largest most experienced MMO maker and this was their best effort? All their "innovative" ideas were tossed out the window within the first year and they steadily added mechanics from games that were already on the market. In typical SOE fashion it starts with a combat upgrade.... I guess players just can't get enough of their core roles changing after months of gameplay YAY!. If the best they can do is create a game that takes 2.5 years of live production to finally become worthwhile, then there is no reason to expect much better from them on anything else to be honest. Hell, their current mantra is how they will slow down on expansions so that they aren't unfinished and have some polish on them, because guess how is leaving again.... *hint: server mergers*
So yes, there is reasonable concern that SOE taking over will do just what they have done over and over. They have no idea how to make things interesting without cloning the ideas of others. They have not produced one true success since they purchased EQ. Why must people appologize for SOE so much?
Will Sigil do any better if they have a year or two to work on their game, I don't know. I have seen enough of Sony to know what to expect from them however.
I really feel bad for Brad. The dude basically wasted 30 million dollars on a Vision that he couldn't deliver.
I think it wouldn't be bad thing if SOE took over. They did a nice job with EQ:2. NGE was a mistake, but hey, everyone makes mistakes.
I used to feel bad for Brad but based on what he has said thruout EQI, SWG, EQ2, and Vanguard especially it seems to be coming to light that he isn't the MMORPG messiah that everyone thought he was. He's just some guy with some basic coding knowledge, a strong opinion, a hope of being the next Tolkien and he was around at the right time to launch Everquest. I loved EQ but lets face it, it had some major problems and people just ignored them because EQ was one of the only games in town. Ask yourself just how much Brad had to do with EQII and SWG. Look at the similiar methods and ideals in those games compared to Vanguard. From Everquest to Vanguard, every game Brad and SOE have had their hand in has released a buggy unbalanced unfinished mess. Then look at Vanguard and notice it was the buggiest and most unfinished of the bunch. I wonder how much of a hand Brad had in all this? How evil is SOE and Smed? They did seem to pull EQ2 out of the primordial mud after realizing it's initial vision wasn't popular?
i have always suspected that was sigils plan from the start. get all the money from the initial sales and subscriptions then sell out to soe. They figure hey they paid us for EQ why not Vanguard
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
One thing that always puzzles me is if you like a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who marries his girlfriend and then you ignore her... lol
Actually forums are used to get information about the game, such as patch notes or any tips on how to create better weapons or armor... Unfornatually some people prefer to turn it into there own personal soap opera on how this game destroyed there life by not living up to there expectations.. lol
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
It was created by a Moderator over at Silky Venom. Silky Venom is a Fan Site and the graph was developed by a fan and not a hater. This graph has been out since Mid March
And how is this ""Fan"" getting his information in order to create the graph? I know Sigil or SOE is not releasing this data.... If your going to post graphs then post links to support it.. otherwise it means nothing...
you are a big boy. Do the homeworl, yourself. I merely told you where it came from. If you have the desire to prove wether or not this graph is real or not, do the research on it. I merely pointed out the website where it was created.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from......
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
and I told you already
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from......
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
and I told you already
Except that the person who posted the original chart is not a SV mod. Nor is he even a "fan" of the game. He is someone who is trying to sell his datamining efforts. Interestingly enough, the same person also posted these:
Here is a second image only showing new characters since Feb 13th (shows the growth rate a bit more accurately)
This is daily character growth since Feb 13th.
All that any of these charts or the other charts show is that information taken out of context is completely worthless.
- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
One thing that always puzzles me is if you like a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who marries his girlfriend and then you ignore her... lol
Actually forums are used to get information about the game, such as patch notes or any tips on how to create better weapons or armor... Unfornatually some people prefer to turn it into there own personal soap opera on how this game destroyed there life by not living up to there expectations.. lol
Information about a game can be both good and bad. When you try and censor one side you do a disservice to the community as a whole. An open discussion about all aspects of a game is always preferable to a one-sided one...unless you are Brad McQuaid and are trying to save your sinking ship.
I think I would have to argue that people logging in is a more accurate representation then characters. People reroll a lot, and old characters often times never get deleted, so naturally the numbers will always go up despite subscriptions. Unless they delete every character for every person that cancels this doesn't prove anything. You could have this same graph for dark and light, if they aren't taking characters out of their system then of course it will always rise.
If it's true.. SOE can't do any worse than Sigil has. Although I can't really understand why SOE would want it. They've already got games in the same type of setting and the amount of effort it would take to rewrite Vanguard to be a worthwhile game would be more than it's worth.
Amazing how people will jump all over a chart they think shows Vanguard is dieing, yet dispute a chart made by the same person showing Vanguard is growing.
How should I put this about the charts : it is about characters, not subscriptions. Sub growth is the only real growth, other than that it's bullshit, to be unusually blunt about it.
The character charts are depending on a lot of factors, such as buddy key period, maxed level period with main ... etc ...
Amazing how people will jump all over a chart they think shows Vanguard is dieing, yet dispute a chart made by the same person showing Vanguard is growing.
A chart showing # of total character doesn't mean the game is growing. No game would ever show negative character growth. Characters on accounts that are no longer active are still counted in the total by definition. Unless they deleted every character on every account that cancels, it is impossible for the chart to go down. Almost no MMO in history follows that policy, so this same trend would match any MMO, including failed ones.
If it's true.. SOE can't do any worse than Sigil has. Although I can't really understand why SOE would want it. They've already got games in the same type of setting and the amount of effort it would take to rewrite Vanguard to be a worthwhile game would be more than it's worth.
Dairy Farmer Smedley...milking it for all it's worth.
That might be true. On the other hand I heard from very good inside sources in both SOE and Blizzard, that Blizzard is going to buy both Vanguard and SWG and develop a SWG 2 game based in the vanguard engine.
Thats a good rumor. I like spreading ones like this.
Anybody know what the name of the new company is that Brad will be leading and what the name of the revolutionary 4th generation MMO will be? Man I love when history repeats itself.
Amazing how people will jump all over a chart they think shows Vanguard is dieing, yet dispute a chart made by the same person showing Vanguard is growing.
A chart showing # of total character doesn't mean the game is growing. No game would ever show negative character growth. Characters on accounts that are no longer active are still counted in the total by definition. Unless they deleted every character on every account that cancels, it is impossible for the chart to go down. Almost no MMO in history follows that policy, so this same trend would match any MMO, including failed ones.
No, but really. Just read the thread where you got the picture from. He is claiming even with that pictured you got that the subs a re increasing but slow. He is also claiming that the character list is those characters that has gained levels so no characters that not are used.
So you just can't pick what you think is suiting your cause.
Speaking as some one who has never played Vanguard ( I am an LOTRO fan). I would say that the data in all three graphs, if true, represents a game that given its shaky start is in suprisingly robust condition.
Charts 2 and 3 indicate steady character growth, but truly the most encouraging for Vanguard fans is chart 1.
Chart one acurately depicts the consequences of Vanguards condition at launch, with a rapid drop in the number of players logging in. Though some of that drop can be attributed to the typical MMO being crowded at launch and then dropping when the 'newness' wears off. Then as you reach the end of the timeline you start to see the number stabilize at around 30,000 logging in daily. Intermittant dips in the numbers logging in occur predictably in the middle of the week.
I would suggest that a lot of MMO's today would be thrilled to have 30,000 players logging in each day.
Just my opinion.
When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other in order that the people may require a leader. -- Plato
Anybody know what the name of the new company is that Brad will be leading and what the name of the revolutionary 4th generation MMO will be? Man I love when history repeats itself. Victory is near!
Yeah.. this chart measure the number of people that have leveled during a specific time period in an attempt to show "Active" accounts, but in the original thread, many ppl question the validity of this approach.
The best argument I see against this it takes a lvl 10 person a day to level, it takes a lvl 40 a week or more to level. (damn it takes me a week to level my lvl 25 toon)
So as time goes by you have more higher lvl ppl and less ppl are leveling.
.. sorry if someone in this thread already said this.
Originally posted by SKIPADI I would suggest that a lot of MMO's today would be thrilled to have 30,000 players logging in each day. Just my opinion.
Maybe, but most pay to play MMOs should be pulling in at least this much. DAOC, a game that is virtually a ghost town with the exception of classic servers gets about this many a day worldwide which can be viewed on the camelotherald. No disrespect to DAOC, its a great game, just past its product life cycle. How many years old is DAOC? Vanguard has been out for a few months and it has the activity of a game thats been out for years and declining. Just using DAOC as an example because it is one of the only games that publicly shows server populations at any given time. This game had the second largest budget ever in an MMO, had 5 years of development, and was marketed as the first 3rd gen MMO.
Comments
At the end of the day (or month) as the case may be, Sigil must pay its bills, give some indication
when payment is to be expected, or fold up its tents. Because they were strapped, they had to
release the game early. That does not lead one to believe they are financially savvy. Since
Sony knows how many subscriptions are active (they do handle that side of the business), there
is no lying about the amount of money incoming. That in itself reduces the wiggle room that
Brad has in negotiating with SOE. SOE runs the servers so if they don't get paid, presumably
they could shut down the servers - game over (literally and figuratively).
Finding another buyer for the game software is difficult, but is probably even more difficult when
everyone knows the game is doing poorly and when someone else is running the servers and
infrastructure at God only knows what cost.
The real question is how long will Sigil bleed red ink before they find a knight on a white horse to
rescue them or pull the plug? Isn't it ironic that we see SOE in the role of a white knight twice?
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from......
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
Planetside is just a cheap clone of every first person shooter with a price tag. Not what should be considered innovative at all. Nothing special, but I have no idea of its success rate. I have noticed no one else has even attempted anything like this so I would be inclined to think failure.
EQ was a smash success before Sony took over. They had nothing to do with how great the game already was, they do however have much to do with how terrible the game became. The pinnacle was the player driven boycott of their expansions which forced sony to fly players to their HQ so they could talk about how much they really cared. What other MMO company has caused such outrage as to generate a succesful boycott amongst other problems?
SWG was all sonys baby. You notice no one credits Lucas Arts for the success of KOTOR, they credit Bioware. Why Sony should get a pass for doing the exact opposite I don't know. The game wasn't even successful before WoW thats why they did the first Combat Upgrade. The fastest selling MMO in history at its launch and it never got more than 50% of EQs subscribers? The game flatlined in the first 6 months, WoW had nothing to do with its failure.
EQ2 was a boring lifeless dumbed down EQ clone with all the grind, forced grouping and time sinks. The game with the biggest budget in MMO history from the largest most experienced MMO maker and this was their best effort? All their "innovative" ideas were tossed out the window within the first year and they steadily added mechanics from games that were already on the market. In typical SOE fashion it starts with a combat upgrade.... I guess players just can't get enough of their core roles changing after months of gameplay YAY!. If the best they can do is create a game that takes 2.5 years of live production to finally become worthwhile, then there is no reason to expect much better from them on anything else to be honest. Hell, their current mantra is how they will slow down on expansions so that they aren't unfinished and have some polish on them, because guess how is leaving again.... *hint: server mergers*
So yes, there is reasonable concern that SOE taking over will do just what they have done over and over. They have no idea how to make things interesting without cloning the ideas of others. They have not produced one true success since they purchased EQ. Why must people appologize for SOE so much?
Will Sigil do any better if they have a year or two to work on their game, I don't know. I have seen enough of Sony to know what to expect from them however.
Actually forums are used to get information about the game, such as patch notes or any tips on how to create better weapons or armor... Unfornatually some people prefer to turn it into there own personal soap opera on how this game destroyed there life by not living up to there expectations.. lol
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
It was created by a Moderator over at Silky Venom. Silky Venom is a Fan Site and the graph was developed by a fan and not a hater. This graph has been out since Mid March
And how is this ""Fan"" getting his information in order to create the graph? I know Sigil or SOE is not releasing this data.... If your going to post graphs then post links to support it.. otherwise it means nothing...
you are a big boy. Do the homeworl, yourself. I merely told you where it came from. If you have the desire to prove wether or not this graph is real or not, do the research on it. I merely pointed out the website where it was created.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from......
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
and I told you already
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from......
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
and I told you already
Except that the person who posted the original chart is not a SV mod. Nor is he even a "fan" of the game. He is someone who is trying to sell his datamining efforts. Interestingly enough, the same person also posted these:
Here is a second image only showing new characters since Feb 13th (shows the growth rate a bit more accurately)
All that any of these charts or the other charts show is that information taken out of context is completely worthless.
- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
Actually forums are used to get information about the game, such as patch notes or any tips on how to create better weapons or armor... Unfornatually some people prefer to turn it into there own personal soap opera on how this game destroyed there life by not living up to there expectations.. lol
Information about a game can be both good and bad. When you try and censor one side you do a disservice to the community as a whole. An open discussion about all aspects of a game is always preferable to a one-sided one...unless you are Brad McQuaid and are trying to save your sinking ship.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
Amazing how people will jump all over a chart they think shows Vanguard is dieing, yet dispute a chart made by the same person showing Vanguard is growing.
The character charts are depending on a lot of factors, such as buddy key period, maxed level period with main ... etc ...
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
Anybody know what the name of the new company is that Brad will be leading and what the name of the revolutionary 4th generation MMO will be? Man I love when history repeats itself.
Victory is near!
No, but really. Just read the thread where you got the picture from. He is claiming even with that pictured you got that the subs a re increasing but slow. He is also claiming that the character list is those characters that has gained levels so no characters that not are used.
So you just can't pick what you think is suiting your cause.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Speaking as some one who has never played Vanguard ( I am an LOTRO fan). I would say that the data in all three graphs, if true, represents a game that given its shaky start is in suprisingly robust condition.
Charts 2 and 3 indicate steady character growth, but truly the most encouraging for Vanguard fans is chart 1.
Chart one acurately depicts the consequences of Vanguards condition at launch, with a rapid drop in the number of players logging in. Though some of that drop can be attributed to the typical MMO being crowded at launch and then dropping when the 'newness' wears off. Then as you reach the end of the timeline you start to see the number stabilize at around 30,000 logging in daily. Intermittant dips in the numbers logging in occur predictably in the middle of the week.
I would suggest that a lot of MMO's today would be thrilled to have 30,000 players logging in each day.
Just my opinion.
When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other in order that the people may require a leader.
-- Plato
Yeah.. this chart measure the number of people that have leveled during a specific time period in an attempt to show "Active" accounts, but in the original thread, many ppl question the validity of this approach.
The best argument I see against this it takes a lvl 10 person a day to level, it takes a lvl 40 a week or more to level. (damn it takes me a week to level my lvl 25 toon)
So as time goes by you have more higher lvl ppl and less ppl are leveling.
.. sorry if someone in this thread already said this.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel