One very important thing is missing from LoTRO

Vhayne

Underwater swimming!!!

Why why why?!?!  Why do developers leave this feature out of most games?  The only ones I can think of that have is are EQ1 and 2, WoW, Vanguard, and I think DAoC introduced it with an expansion.   

There is SO much fun to be had underwater.  I know it's not "in line with the books", blah blah blah.  But I'm sure alot of other stuff has been overlooked for the sake of being fun as well.

It's another whole realm of possibility and adventure to explore, but most developers seem to ignore it completely. 

Alcuin

Verisimilitude is very important to me in a MMORPG...

 

I haven't bought LoTRO yet, but I'm about 30 minutes from doing so.

Can anyone clarify this:  Can you not step in the water?  How do characters interact with the world physically?  Can characters jump?

 

Believe it or not, I could never get into SWG because i couldn't jump.  I know that sounds screwy , but I hated it.  I also hated the fact that a 10 inch high curb could block my character from moving.  Argh! That was aggravating!

 

 

Vhayne

You can jump, and jump off things, and you can even swim.    But you are restricted to surface swimming.  You cannot go underwater at all.

One more thing though.  It's not that big enough of a deal to stop you from purchasing.   I just wish it was in there.

Wraithmire

you can swim, but only on the top of the water...and yes you can jump.



Would like to swim underwater so, thats one feature I miss from WoW.

Cerion

While I agree that it is fun in other games, you have to look at the reasons that it is fun.  Usually there is content that can be experienced underwater in the form of dungeons or underwater ruins.    To explore this content, you need some sort of magic to sustain your breathing.

Middle Earth really doesn't have that sort of magic.

Swimming underwater without content would have limited appeal.  People would do it a few times and then...meh.  That's a lot of wasted development time for such a weak payoff.

 

Vhayne

Actually, now that I think of it...... 

If there wasn't underwater swimming in the LoTR books, then the whole story wouldn't have taken place. 

Didn't Smeagol find the ring by......wait for it........UNDERWATER SWIMMING?? 

ChaulsinNL

I'm still looking for a diving board . But on topic it doesnt bother me at all, but i do believe there is great potential to be had by being able to dive underwater. I guess lotro lore probably doesnt have underwater ruins or something of the like. It would make for some fun deeds to be had though .

Vhayne

Originally posted by Cerion


While I agree that it is fun in other games, you have to look at the reasons that it is fun.  Usually there is content that can be experienced underwater in the form of dungeons or underwater ruins.    To explore this content, you need some sort of magic to sustain your breathing.
Middle Earth really doesn't have that sort of magic.
Swimming underwater without content would have limited appeal.  People would do it a few times and then...meh.  That's a lot of wasted development time for such a weak payoff.
 

Yeah I see what you're saying.  But what about an underwater entrance to a dry cave?  Stuff like that.  The content can be done, even without magical breathing means.  Not as extensive of course, but it could be done.

Kyleran

Originally posted by Vhayne


Underwater swimming!!!
Why why why?!?!  Why do developers leave this feature out of most games?


I know it's not "in line with the books", blah blah blah.  But I'm sure alot of other stuff has been overlooked for the sake of being fun as well.

Its true, they've taken some artistic license but I think you answered your own questions.  In the books the only people who went in the water usually started drowning....  there were no real underwater adventures, so doubt you'll see them here any time soon. (nor flying mounts)

Cerion

Originally posted by Vhayne

Originally posted by Cerion


While I agree that it is fun in other games, you have to look at the reasons that it is fun.  Usually there is content that can be experienced underwater in the form of dungeons or underwater ruins.    To explore this content, you need some sort of magic to sustain your breathing.
Middle Earth really doesn't have that sort of magic.
Swimming underwater without content would have limited appeal.  People would do it a few times and then...meh.  That's a lot of wasted development time for such a weak payoff.
 

Yeah I see what you're saying.  But what about an underwater entrance to a dry cave?  Stuff like that.  The content can be done, even without magical breathing means.  Not as extensive of course, but it could be done.

 

Good point Vhayne.  Realistic swimming to gain access to some cave (or a mischievious ring) seems very appropriate.

Gameloading

Originally posted by Vhayne


Underwater swimming!!!
Why why why?!?!  Why do developers leave this feature out of most games?  The only ones I can think of that have is are EQ1 and 2, WoW, Vanguard, and I think DAoC introduced it with an expansion.   
There is SO much fun to be had underwater.  I know it's not "in line with the books", blah blah blah.  But I'm sure alot of other stuff has been overlooked for the sake of being fun as well.
It's another whole realm of possibility and adventure to explore, but most developers seem to ignore it completely. 

Because that would mean Lotro would have some sense of originality, and we can't have that now can we?

altairzq

I have my rules, I don't play MMORPGS where:



-You can't jump.

-You can't swim underwater.

-You have to click to move.



Old EQ spoiled me.

Elikal

No, whats really missing in Lotro is.... toilets. I mean, come on, those NPCs and the players, are they ever going to toilets all day?

thats fairly unrealistic. Man, Lotro sux soooo...

/irony off

Yeebo

Well you can certainly jump (much easier to jump over fences than go around).  If my "click to move" you mean ala Diablo...no, it's WASD or hold down the mouse button like most modern MMOs (and I must say I utterly agree with you, that killed Diablo II for me and my favorite version of Diablo I was on the PS for that exact reason).  If you mean "you have to press a key or button to move"...well no, as far as I have been able to tell you can't make your character move merely by staring intently at the screen and concentrating (though I admit I haven't really tried too much).  The swimming thing is sort of a bummer, no underwater swimming at all.  Theres nothing to do down there anyway, but you can see trout swimming around in the water (they even jump out sometimes).  It would be kind of fun to swim around looking at the trout  :P  I think I'll got to the official boards and demand a trout viewing mini game!



On a serious note, I noticed that the playable area stops right before you get to the Gray Havens and surrounding coastal area.  Maybe when they expand the game to the coast they will add underwater swimming.

Man1ac

Originally posted by Vhayne


Actually, now that I think of it...... 
If there wasn't underwater swimming in the LoTR books, then the whole story wouldn't have taken place. 
Didn't Smeagol find the ring by......wait for it........UNDERWATER SWIMMING?? 

rofl, yea i can still remember that moment, i hope the devs do satisfy everyone sooner or later, let's just hope no-one asks for a disney land.

Cerion

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Vhayne


Underwater swimming!!!
Why why why?!?!  Why do developers leave this feature out of most games?  The only ones I can think of that have is are EQ1 and 2, WoW, Vanguard, and I think DAoC introduced it with an expansion.   
There is SO much fun to be had underwater.  I know it's not "in line with the books", blah blah blah.  But I'm sure alot of other stuff has been overlooked for the sake of being fun as well.
It's another whole realm of possibility and adventure to explore, but most developers seem to ignore it completely. 

Because that would mean Lotro would have some sense of originality, and we can't have that now can we?

Are you saying that because LOTRO lacks underwater swimming it's being original with respect to MMOs, or that LOTRO has ignored originality in deference to lore?

boognish75

as frylock once said most otger civilizations use there bio for reabsorption for self fuel, this may be true of lotro.

Originally posted by Elikal


No, whats really missing in Lotro is.... toilets. I mean, come on, those NPCs and the players, are they ever going to toilets all day?

thats fairly unrealistic. Man, Lotro sux soooo...
/irony off

Gameloading

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Vhayne


Underwater swimming!!!
Why why why?!?!  Why do developers leave this feature out of most games?  The only ones I can think of that have is are EQ1 and 2, WoW, Vanguard, and I think DAoC introduced it with an expansion.   
There is SO much fun to be had underwater.  I know it's not "in line with the books", blah blah blah.  But I'm sure alot of other stuff has been overlooked for the sake of being fun as well.
It's another whole realm of possibility and adventure to explore, but most developers seem to ignore it completely. 

Because that would mean Lotro would have some sense of originality, and we can't have that now can we?

Are you saying that because LOTRO lacks underwater swimming it's being original with respect to MMOs, or that LOTRO has ignored originality in deference to lore?

Actually, I was just kidding.



I'm just mocking Lotro for having so little originality.

Enigma

Originally posted by Alcuin


Verisimilitude is very important to me in a MMORPG...
 
I haven't bought LoTRO yet, but I'm about 30 minutes from doing so.
Can anyone clarify this:  Can you not step in the water?  How do characters interact with the world physically?  Can characters jump?
 
Believe it or not, I could never get into SWG because i couldn't jump.  I know that sounds screwy , but I hated it.  I also hated the fact that a 10 inch high curb could block my character from moving.  Argh! That was aggravating!
 
 

No. You cannot go underwater at all.

To me...the very most important thing missing in this game was the challenge. Too damn easy to do anything

xcalibur

Originally posted by Enigma



No. You cannot go underwater at all.
To me...the very most important thing missing in this game was the challenge. Too damn easy to do anything

I know, I totally want to die at least a few dozen times in the first 15 levels.

thetank

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by Vhayne

Originally posted by Cerion


While I agree that it is fun in other games, you have to look at the reasons that it is fun.  Usually there is content that can be experienced underwater in the form of dungeons or underwater ruins.    To explore this content, you need some sort of magic to sustain your breathing.
Middle Earth really doesn't have that sort of magic.
Swimming underwater without content would have limited appeal.  People would do it a few times and then...meh.  That's a lot of wasted development time for such a weak payoff.
 

Yeah I see what you're saying.  But what about an underwater entrance to a dry cave?  Stuff like that.  The content can be done, even without magical breathing means.  Not as extensive of course, but it could be done.

 

Good point Vhayne.  Realistic swimming to gain access to some cave (or a mischievious ring) seems very appropriate.

I wish some dev read this..

Shoal

Originally posted by Vhayne


Underwater swimming!!!
Why why why?!?!  Why do developers leave this feature out of most games?  The only ones I can think of that have is are EQ1 and 2, WoW, Vanguard, and I think DAoC introduced it with an expansion.   
There is SO much fun to be had underwater.  I know it's not "in line with the books", blah blah blah.  But I'm sure alot of other stuff has been overlooked for the sake of being fun as well.
It's another whole realm of possibility and adventure to explore, but most developers seem to ignore it completely. 

Just FYI, EQ2 *does* have Underwater Swimming and always has had it.

But, it is STILL a pain to use.

Would have been better if EQ2 had just left it out altogether.

Only WoW has managed to get it 100% correct.

So, I am not to fussed that it does not appear in LotRO.

 

Kyleran

Originally posted by Shoal  

Only WoW has managed to get it 100% correct.

And even then...to what real benefit?  Sure, theres a few quests you do along the coastlines, but after they are done, pretty much you never go swimming again.... (unless you are farming some pearls or something)



Sure, it would have been nice to have, but I can get along w/o it for sure.



Now, I'm still trying to find my automatic "i-win" button on my monster character... i seemed to have mis-placed it....

Shoal

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Shoal  

Only WoW has managed to get it 100% correct.

And even then...to what real benefit?  Sure, theres a few quests you do along the coastlines, but after they are done, pretty much you never go swimming again.... (unless you are farming some pearls or something)



Sure, it would have been nice to have, but I can get along w/o it for sure.



Now, I'm still trying to find my automatic "i-win" button on my monster character... i seemed to have mis-placed it....

Yes, you have reminded me that WoW makes only minimal usage of Underwater swimming.

But, I am now also reminded that EQ1 *also* has always had Underwater swimming.  And EQ1 made *great* usage of it.  From quests, to area access, to special Mobs.  EQ1 had it both right and integrated into the game.

 

Mentat

Originally posted by Alcuin


Verisimilitude is very important to me in a MMORPG...
 
I haven't bought LoTRO yet, but I'm about 30 minutes from doing so.
Can anyone clarify this:  Can you not step in the water?  How do characters interact with the world physically?  Can characters jump?
 
Believe it or not, I could never get into SWG because i couldn't jump.  I know that sounds screwy , but I hated it.  I also hated the fact that a 10 inch high curb could block my character from moving.  Argh! That was aggravating!
 
 

Yes, you can jump, just like in WoW, loot items just like WoW, move and fight and everything ... just... like....WoW... hrmmm

Just like WoW

dand3

Originally posted by Alcuin


Verisimilitude is very important to me in a MMORPG...
 
I haven't bought LoTRO yet, but I'm about 30 minutes from doing so.
Can anyone clarify this:  Can you not step in the water?  How do characters interact with the world physically?  Can characters jump?
 
Believe it or not, I could never get into SWG because i couldn't jump.  I know that sounds screwy , but I hated it.  I also hated the fact that a 10 inch high curb could block my character from moving.  Argh! That was aggravating!
 
 

I didn't see that anyone gave you a full answer; as mentioned above, yes jumping is in, it works well.  You wade through shallow water, and when it gets too deep you start swimming automatically.  Very cleanly done. How do characters interact with the world?  Fairly complex issue.  You can shoot through bushes, but trees and other major objects block line of sight. Same with running; through bushes, most spiderwebs, etc. but not through major objects.  Right click to open doors (which also work very smoothly).  You can jump up onto statues in a town square often, slide down hills onto hobbit roofs, and are injured by falling.  Usually a sprain that slows you for a bit, but you can be killed in extreme cases.

I didn't much like underwater swimming in WoW, and hated it in VG, so I don't miss it at all.