It was no surprise to me that $OE was going to be getting "More Involved". Like many others I was willing to bet it was going to happen sooner or later. But what did surprise me is how soon that it did happened. I was speculating about a year. Not mere months after launch.
Wich makes me wonder, how long did Brad know about this enhanced "involvement" that $OE will be participating in? As Shayde said earlier in this thread, these kind of talks could be going on for months before going public.
So could it be possible that Brad actualy knew about all of this before launch? Could it be possible that Brad was lying when he was reassuring everyone that $OE's involvment would be strictly publishing?
OR (tinfoil hat time), could it have been that $OE knew that they wouldnt be able to launch a successfull game with thier reputation, and used Sigil as a front to get it launched?
And for the record, I havnt read anything that says that $OE will be either buying out Sigil or merging with them. All Ive seen so far is that $OE will be getting More Involved. Wich could mean anything at this point.
As with all things involving $OE, we will just have to wait and see.
Why is people continue to draw parallels between SOE, Vanguard and NGE? Just because it happened to SWG in no way means it will happen to Vanguard. The situation with SWG at the time was a totally different kettle of fish to what we have with Vanguard right now. It's almost like you people want it to happen. Get over it Guys, it ain't gonna!
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
In all honesty, more people working on Vanguard is a good thing. Why are y'all throwing your arms up about this? This could assist Vanguard in becoming the game we always dreamed of.
http://www.warriornation.net Current MMO: LoTRO LForward: The Agency Played MMO: V:SoH, SWG, WoW, EVE, RFO, FFXI, LOTRO, EQ, AoC, EQII, AA, COH/V, D&D, LII, SL, DAoC, AL, PS, SB, CO, AO, TR.
In all honesty, more people working on Vanguard is a good thing. Why are y'all throwing your arms up about this? This could assist Vanguard in becoming the game we always dreamed of.
it could go good or bad...
but its going to take a few months at least to get new developers an idea of what they need to do and fix...but in the long run you'll end up paying lots of money for the game to become what it was supposed to be at already...
In all honesty, more people working on Vanguard is a good thing. Why are y'all throwing your arms up about this? This could assist Vanguard in becoming the game we always dreamed of.
it could go good or bad...
but its going to take a few months at least to get new developers an idea of what they need to do and fix...but in the long run you'll end up paying lots of money for the game to become what it was supposed to be at already...
I understand, and agree with what you are saying, but a lot of what will be added in things that can and will be enjoyed more at level 45-50ish I'm sure. So I figure right now I'm leveling, spending my $15 a month for that part of the game, then working in my 40's on the really cool stuff that will be a part of the game months from now.
http://www.warriornation.net Current MMO: LoTRO LForward: The Agency Played MMO: V:SoH, SWG, WoW, EVE, RFO, FFXI, LOTRO, EQ, AoC, EQII, AA, COH/V, D&D, LII, SL, DAoC, AL, PS, SB, CO, AO, TR.
it could go good or bad... but its going to take a few months at least to get new developers an idea of what they need to do and fix...but in the long run you'll end up paying lots of money for the game to become what it was supposed to be at already...
That is the problem I see. In order to bring VG up to what McQuaid is talking about (and he's good at spewing hot air, we know that already....) requires that SOE is willing to fund what amounts to re-development and re-deployment of the game.
Once and IF that happens, they have to deal with:
1. Already bad reputation of the game (uphill battle there)
2. Competition from upcoming titles
Otherwise, SOE will absorb the minimal cost of running the game on existing server hardware and the game will limp along with a small handful of developers working on it, supporting a barebones niche customer base.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted. He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything. So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted. He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything. So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
Another way of saying that they have us by the testicals and they are starting to squeeze.
I thougth people agreed that SOE will take on Vanguard. And that was the reason because the threads like 'I Told you', that was why people said Vanguard - NGE. And similar stuff like that.
Should one take it that with this thread that the SOE/SIgil/Vanguard still is a rumour?
Or is it just that the OP got another idea on how to troll with a already well known subject?
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time. Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Actually, they wouldn't have spent money to "stave off" an early release, as you put it so well. Sony's never released a finished game. "Never completely finished" has been the mantra for ALL of their releases, they say that like it's a good thing.
NOT that core systems aren't complete, NOT that the game is broken at release.
That EQ race that Smed promoted wasn't even coded into the expansion yet (don't know the specifics, I don't EQ). The Jedi functionality wasn't live at launch of SWG. .
FFS, just step of the "I HATE EVERYTHING SOE BECAUSE THEY KILLED MY BELOVED SWG" crying pedal for a sec ok.
First of all:,
SoE has released finished producs that made a huge market.EQ, EQ2, Planetside, and tons of smaller MMO, go look on their site. They were finished and they STILL support them.
Second:
SIGIL released an unfinished product, not SoE.....SoE had no chance to release it because of lack of funds....did you read brad's posts? He even tells you why.
If SoE didn't help Sigil out....if SoE didn't put EQ2 programmers on Vanguard <<<<<<<<<< are you reading this?<<<<<<<<< VG wouldn't have even been released.
I don't really care what SoE did to your SWG, I could give a **(& about SWG. I just hate people bashing SoE for everything and anything because of their stupid game. How does what you write about SWG, even remotely relate to vanguard.
EQ has had incomplete expansions. Smedley admitted it himself.
EQ2 was unfinished, and eventually recieved major revamps in the first year.
Planetside needed major work after launch.
SWG... we all know that mess.
The first EQ was their only real success story. EQ2 is only now getting acceptable numbers years after launch. That's it... the rest of their games are on life support.
So what exactly has $OE ever done right? What has ever been complete? Don't you think that if sony really wanted to make VG work right, they'd have delayed the shipping date and threw another month of money at it?
Sony has shipped out incomplete games and took in revenue and fixed the games months later. That's a simple fact. It's business as usual for them.
I'm not on a pedistal.. I can just see through their B.S.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Funny, I read that the day it was posted. He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything. So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
VERY good point. How much tighter could they get without a buyout of some sort? They already have lent them developers and published it. What more?
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Meh, SOE is just going to kill this title. It wasn't that good to begin with. no... thats not fair. The game has 0 playability because even on the lowest settings it lags. If you ask me the ONLY way SOE can make it better is to put some people on overhaul the graphics engine. I think Sigil has a good idea... we are just seeing poor implementation of it.
*MAYBE* SOE can assist with that. I doubt it though. The last time SOE took a title from the developer we got SWG:NGE
Funny, I read that the day it was posted. He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything. So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
VERY good point. How much tighter could they get without a buyout of some sort? They already have lent them developers and published it. What more?
Well...
They could be working out details on a relaunch, how much money it would cost, the developement staff needed, and an aproxomate time table. They could be discussing how much investment SoE will make into the game and how much say they will have. Maybe they are discussing changes in management in exchange for a portion of the IP. Or they could be discussing a sale of the entire IP or the merger of Sigil into a broader SoE conglomerate of developers in smaller devisions like EA/Mythic.
There are a lot of options open and available to them. A buyout or handing over of VG to sony is the most extreme case, but that's all the people that dislike the game care to focus on.
Edit: People should realize that SoE involvement up to this point hasn't been as big as people assume or try to make out. They have been fulfilling thier role as publisher, maintaning servers, and marketing for the game. However that deal works out between dev. and publisher I can't say, but they obviousley made some monetary deal already. What we don't know is if Sigil has been able to fulfill thier role as a company, meeting whatever terms were laid out between Sigil and SoE. They could have or they may not have. It would make a HUGE dif.
I wonder if Sigil wasn't able to fullfil thier part of the contract and they are now going through whatever steps they have to to meet some terms they made with SoE if they couldn't.
It's almost as though SOE forced Sigil to release Vanguard early, knowing the game wasn't ready and that resulting launch problems would allow them to acquire sigil and VG completely on the cheap, then 'save' the game and keep all resulting profit.
I don't believe this at all, but I like starting conspiricies...
It's almost as though SOE forced Sigil to release Vanguard early, knowing the game wasn't ready and that resulting launch problems would allow them to acquire sigil and VG completely on the cheap, then 'save' the game and keep all resulting profit.
I don't believe this at all, but I like starting conspiricies...
It *sounds* like a conspiracy, but it asks the question: why would SOE have balked in the past to give the game more time/money, and NOW they are suddenly willing to reinvest in the title (when doing so before would have put the game in a much stronger position).
Nah .. I think Microsoft let down Vanguard to let it get buggy and then released Vista at the same time as Vangu came out. So they could hide the strange Vista Behaviours and finaly put a big" Games for Windows" Logo ON the lord of the rings.
It's almost as though SOE forced Sigil to release Vanguard early, knowing the game wasn't ready and that resulting launch problems would allow them to acquire sigil and VG completely on the cheap, then 'save' the game and keep all resulting profit.
I don't believe this at all, but I like starting conspiricies...
It *sounds* like a conspiracy, but it asks the question: why would SOE have balked in the past to give the game more time/money, and NOW they are suddenly willing to reinvest in the title (when doing so before would have put the game in a much stronger position).
What has changed since the release?
Do we know that SoE was unwilling to give Sigil more time and money. Really it comes down to money becuase without it you have no time. We do know that Sigil ran out of money, but did they go to SoE and try to get more, did SoE offer?
Or is the notion that SoE refused to give Sigil a loan or make a larger investment into the game then what they agreed to with the Publishing deal just a rumor?
I've never seen anything that said Sony wouldn't pony up to allow further developement. Anyone got a link?
Originally posted by fozzie22 Originally posted by blackmaiden Why is people continue to draw parallels between SOE, Vanguard and NGE? Just because it happened to SWG in no way means it will happen to Vanguard. The situation with SWG at the time was a totally different kettle of fish to what we have with Vanguard right now. It's almost like you people want it to happen. Get over it Guys, it ain't gonna!
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
1) The Matrix Online got a very heavy handed "combat upgrade" as soon as SOE aquired it.
2) SWG has had two very heavy handed combat upgrades. (word is there is a third coming) No need to rehash history here.
3) EQ2 got a heavy handed combat upgrade a year after launch. I was around for the combat upgrade and how no one really asked for it. There were a lot of drastic changes to the core concepts and abilities of classes, some to the point that they didn't function like the original . People pick and play classes to suit their gameplay styles and SOE disregarded that and it cost them subscribers. Why SOE thinks they can reboot their class system and rebalance 24 classes in one single patch is beyond me. All they did was shuffle around which classes were overpowered, which underpowered and sprinkled a some nerfs and a few buffs around. Classes that servered no purpose like illusionist/coercer were still just as useless, warlocks became DoT masters and had their nukes nerfed into oblivion, etc, etc, etc. Saying that the combat upgrade was a few tweeks is being less than honest. It is unacceptable to make that drastic of changes over a year into launch and it did upset the games subscriber base. (note they did the same thing with quests/rewards and crafting after that, because well they don't have the pulse of the gaming community anymore).
While you may not agree with my views of EQ2's combat upgrades, there is a pattern that SOE takes and it is indeed to do overhauls of game systems to get what they think will garner more subscriptions. They have yet to succed with a revamp that improves subscription rates.
What will happen with vanguard? It is very likely that SOE will yet again do a combat overhaul and change major game mechanics to try to attract new subscribers. It may not be as drastic as the NGE was, but odds are it will be fairly dramatic when you compare it to what Vanguard was originally marketed as. The people who will be most affected by this are the people who have shown loyalty and stuck with the title.
If you think that the above is incorrect then ask yourself how will SOE turn around the game that is currently in trouble? What measures can they employ to make change. For me it is pretty obvious what they will do as I have lived through it twice.
No one can honestly say that there isn't a likelyhood that SOE will do another major revamp, because that is exactly what they have done to every major title for the last five years. Ignoring a companies past doesn't change the likelyhood of what they do and SOE is hunrgy for a succesful title again.
Originally posted by fozzie22 Originally posted by blackmaiden Why is people continue to draw parallels between SOE, Vanguard and NGE? Just because it happened to SWG in no way means it will happen to Vanguard. The situation with SWG at the time was a totally different kettle of fish to what we have with Vanguard right now. It's almost like you people want it to happen. Get over it Guys, it ain't gonna!
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
1) The Matrix Online got a very heavy handed "combat upgrade" as soon as SOE aquired it.
2) SWG has had two very heavy handed combat upgrades. (word is there is a third coming) No need to rehash history here.
3) EQ2 got a heavy handed combat upgrade a year after launch. I was around for the combat upgrade and how no one really asked for it. There were a lot of drastic changes to the core concepts and abilities of classes, some to the point that they didn't function like the original . People pick and play classes to suit their gameplay styles and SOE disregarded that and it cost them subscribers. Why SOE thinks they can reboot their class system and rebalance 24 classes in one single patch is beyond me. All they did was shuffle around which classes were overpowered, which underpowered and sprinkled a some nerfs and a few buffs around. Classes that servered no purpose like illusionist/coercer were still just as useless, warlocks became DoT masters and had their nukes nerfed into oblivion, etc, etc, etc. Saying that the combat upgrade was a few tweeks is being less than honest. It is unacceptable to make that drastic of changes over a year into launch and it did upset the games subscriber base. (note they did the same thing with quests/rewards and crafting after that, because well they don't have the pulse of the gaming community anymore).
While you may not agree with my views of EQ2's combat upgrades, there is a pattern that SOE takes and it is indeed to do overhauls of game systems to get what they think will garner more subscriptions. They have yet to succed with a revamp that improves subscription rates.
What will happen with vanguard? It is very likely that SOE will yet again do a combat overhaul and change major game mechanics to try to attract new subscribers. It may not be as drastic as the NGE was, but odds are it will be fairly dramatic when you compare it to what Vanguard was originally marketed as. The people who will be most affected by this are the people who have shown loyalty and stuck with the title.
If you think that the above is incorrect then ask yourself how will SOE turn around the game that is currently in trouble? What measures can they employ to make change. For me it is pretty obvious what they will do as I have lived through it twice.
No one can honestly say that there isn't a likelyhood that SOE will do another major revamp, because that is exactly what they have done to every major title for the last five years. Ignoring a companies past doesn't change the likelyhood of what they do and SOE is hunrgy for a succesful title again.
What does the game need?
You can't upgrade everyone PC so that's out of your hands. It's already been said that while some more optimization will be done the biggest issue performance wise facing VG is the computers themselves.
Seems like the thing they need most is time to implement features and content. There is a lot ot add on top of balancing (like EVERY MMO) and some bug fixes. (like EVERY MMO).
Since they can't get more time, a way to compensate would be for coding to be done and tested faster, and that takes money. The ground work could already be thier but the resources aren't. SoE involvement doesn't neccesarilly mean they will "takeover" dev. of the game. Most of what needs to be done is likely laid out and waiting to be implemented but Sigil alone can't do it.
I think it's a little early to claim SoE is going to make drastic changes to the game before even knowing what's going on. Or what will happen.
The game needs subscribers and it also needs capital to continue development. SOE is looking to invest which means they will have control. To think otherwise is a bit silly.
They also have to deal with new big titles coming out so the clock is ticking. What Vanguard is currently offering isn't selling for whatever reasons people wish to cling onto. Brad can blame it on system specs for all he wants, but the truth is people will and do upgrade to play those "must have" titles. There are problems with this game on Vista machines and Nvidia cards also. There is a laundry list of other problems no related to system specs, but enough on that.
Games just don't "relaunch" well anymore as can be seen with SWG and EQ2. They might be the greatest things in the world now, but time has passed them both by.
What can SOE/Sigil do to create interest in the game? I ask this not to be a naysayer, but because I am the target demographic for this title and so far it looks to be doing more harm to the industry than the revolution Brad promised. I am very curious to see how things turn out.
Originally posted by fozzie22 Originally posted by blackmaiden Why is people continue to draw parallels between SOE, Vanguard and NGE? Just because it happened to SWG in no way means it will happen to Vanguard. The situation with SWG at the time was a totally different kettle of fish to what we have with Vanguard right now. It's almost like you people want it to happen. Get over it Guys, it ain't gonna!
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
1) The Matrix Online got a very heavy handed "combat upgrade" as soon as SOE aquired it.
2) SWG has had two very heavy handed combat upgrades. (word is there is a third coming) No need to rehash history here.
3) EQ2 got a heavy handed combat upgrade a year after launch. I was around for the combat upgrade and how no one really asked for it. There were a lot of drastic changes to the core concepts and abilities of classes, some to the point that they didn't function like the original . People pick and play classes to suit their gameplay styles and SOE disregarded that and it cost them subscribers. Why SOE thinks they can reboot their class system and rebalance 24 classes in one single patch is beyond me. All they did was shuffle around which classes were overpowered, which underpowered and sprinkled a some nerfs and a few buffs around. Classes that servered no purpose like illusionist/coercer were still just as useless, warlocks became DoT masters and had their nukes nerfed into oblivion, etc, etc, etc. Saying that the combat upgrade was a few tweeks is being less than honest. It is unacceptable to make that drastic of changes over a year into launch and it did upset the games subscriber base. (note they did the same thing with quests/rewards and crafting after that, because well they don't have the pulse of the gaming community anymore).
While you may not agree with my views of EQ2's combat upgrades, there is a pattern that SOE takes and it is indeed to do overhauls of game systems to get what they think will garner more subscriptions. They have yet to succed with a revamp that improves subscription rates.
What will happen with vanguard? It is very likely that SOE will yet again do a combat overhaul and change major game mechanics to try to attract new subscribers. It may not be as drastic as the NGE was, but odds are it will be fairly dramatic when you compare it to what Vanguard was originally marketed as. The people who will be most affected by this are the people who have shown loyalty and stuck with the title.
If you think that the above is incorrect then ask yourself how will SOE turn around the game that is currently in trouble? What measures can they employ to make change. For me it is pretty obvious what they will do as I have lived through it twice.
No one can honestly say that there isn't a likelyhood that SOE will do another major revamp, because that is exactly what they have done to every major title for the last five years. Ignoring a companies past doesn't change the likelyhood of what they do and SOE is hunrgy for a succesful title again.
What does the game need?
You can't upgrade everyone PC so that's out of your hands. It's already been said that while some more optimization will be done the biggest issue performance wise facing VG is the computers themselves.
Seems like the thing they need most is time to implement features and content. There is a lot ot add on top of balancing (like EVERY MMO) and some bug fixes. (like EVERY MMO).
Since they can't get more time, a way to compensate would be for coding to be done and tested faster, and that takes money. The ground work could already be thier but the resources aren't. SoE involvement doesn't neccesarilly mean they will "takeover" dev. of the game. Most of what needs to be done is likely laid out and waiting to be implemented but Sigil alone can't do it.
I think it's a little early to claim SoE is going to make drastic changes to the game before even knowing what's going on. Or what will happen.
Comments
It was no surprise to me that $OE was going to be getting "More Involved". Like many others I was willing to bet it was going to happen sooner or later. But what did surprise me is how soon that it did happened. I was speculating about a year. Not mere months after launch.
Wich makes me wonder, how long did Brad know about this enhanced "involvement" that $OE will be participating in? As Shayde said earlier in this thread, these kind of talks could be going on for months before going public.
So could it be possible that Brad actualy knew about all of this before launch? Could it be possible that Brad was lying when he was reassuring everyone that $OE's involvment would be strictly publishing?
OR (tinfoil hat time), could it have been that $OE knew that they wouldnt be able to launch a successfull game with thier reputation, and used Sigil as a front to get it launched?
And for the record, I havnt read anything that says that $OE will be either buying out Sigil or merging with them. All Ive seen so far is that $OE will be getting More Involved. Wich could mean anything at this point.
As with all things involving $OE, we will just have to wait and see.
Have fun folks
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
http://www.warriornation.net
Current MMO: LoTRO
LForward: The Agency
Played MMO: V:SoH, SWG, WoW, EVE, RFO, FFXI, LOTRO, EQ, AoC, EQII, AA, COH/V, D&D, LII, SL, DAoC, AL, PS, SB, CO, AO, TR.
it could go good or bad...
but its going to take a few months at least to get new developers an idea of what they need to do and fix...but in the long run you'll end up paying lots of money for the game to become what it was supposed to be at already...
it could go good or bad...
but its going to take a few months at least to get new developers an idea of what they need to do and fix...but in the long run you'll end up paying lots of money for the game to become what it was supposed to be at already...
I understand, and agree with what you are saying, but a lot of what will be added in things that can and will be enjoyed more at level 45-50ish I'm sure. So I figure right now I'm leveling, spending my $15 a month for that part of the game, then working in my 40's on the really cool stuff that will be a part of the game months from now.
http://www.warriornation.net
Current MMO: LoTRO
LForward: The Agency
Played MMO: V:SoH, SWG, WoW, EVE, RFO, FFXI, LOTRO, EQ, AoC, EQII, AA, COH/V, D&D, LII, SL, DAoC, AL, PS, SB, CO, AO, TR.
That is the problem I see. In order to bring VG up to what McQuaid is talking about (and he's good at spewing hot air, we know that already....) requires that SOE is willing to fund what amounts to re-development and re-deployment of the game.
Once and IF that happens, they have to deal with:
1. Already bad reputation of the game (uphill battle there)
2. Competition from upcoming titles
Otherwise, SOE will absorb the minimal cost of running the game on existing server hardware and the game will limp along with a small handful of developers working on it, supporting a barebones niche customer base.
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
Another way of saying that they have us by the testicals and they are starting to squeeze.I miss DAoC
Should one take it that with this thread that the SOE/SIgil/Vanguard still is a rumour?
Or is it just that the OP got another idea on how to troll with a already well known subject?
Originality should be promoted.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Actually, they wouldn't have spent money to "stave off" an early release, as you put it so well. Sony's never released a finished game. "Never completely finished" has been the mantra for ALL of their releases, they say that like it's a good thing.
NOT that core systems aren't complete, NOT that the game is broken at release.
That EQ race that Smed promoted wasn't even coded into the expansion yet (don't know the specifics, I don't EQ). The Jedi functionality wasn't live at launch of SWG. .
FFS, just step of the "I HATE EVERYTHING SOE BECAUSE THEY KILLED MY BELOVED SWG" crying pedal for a sec ok.
First of all:,
SoE has released finished producs that made a huge market.EQ, EQ2, Planetside, and tons of smaller MMO, go look on their site. They were finished and they STILL support them.
Second:
SIGIL released an unfinished product, not SoE.....SoE had no chance to release it because of lack of funds....did you read brad's posts? He even tells you why.
If SoE didn't help Sigil out....if SoE didn't put EQ2 programmers on Vanguard <<<<<<<<<< are you reading this?<<<<<<<<< VG wouldn't have even been released.
I don't really care what SoE did to your SWG, I could give a **(& about SWG. I just hate people bashing SoE for everything and anything because of their stupid game. How does what you write about SWG, even remotely relate to vanguard.
EQ has had incomplete expansions. Smedley admitted it himself.
EQ2 was unfinished, and eventually recieved major revamps in the first year.
Planetside needed major work after launch.
SWG... we all know that mess.
The first EQ was their only real success story. EQ2 is only now getting acceptable numbers years after launch. That's it... the rest of their games are on life support.
So what exactly has $OE ever done right? What has ever been complete? Don't you think that if sony really wanted to make VG work right, they'd have delayed the shipping date and threw another month of money at it?
Sony has shipped out incomplete games and took in revenue and fixed the games months later. That's a simple fact. It's business as usual for them.
I'm not on a pedistal.. I can just see through their B.S.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
VERY good point. How much tighter could they get without a buyout of some sort? They already have lent them developers and published it. What more?
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Meh, SOE is just going to kill this title. It wasn't that good to begin with. no... thats not fair. The game has 0 playability because even on the lowest settings it lags. If you ask me the ONLY way SOE can make it better is to put some people on overhaul the graphics engine. I think Sigil has a good idea... we are just seeing poor implementation of it.
*MAYBE* SOE can assist with that. I doubt it though. The last time SOE took a title from the developer we got SWG:NGE
This quote from that Brad post seems clear:
"So the bottom line is that SOE is going to be getting more involved with Sigil and Vanguard - our relationship is going to become even tighter - much tighter."
Of course you can see whatever you want to see in that quote. But corporations don't get "tight" and stay completely independent.
VERY good point. How much tighter could they get without a buyout of some sort? They already have lent them developers and published it. What more?
Well...
They could be working out details on a relaunch, how much money it would cost, the developement staff needed, and an aproxomate time table. They could be discussing how much investment SoE will make into the game and how much say they will have. Maybe they are discussing changes in management in exchange for a portion of the IP. Or they could be discussing a sale of the entire IP or the merger of Sigil into a broader SoE conglomerate of developers in smaller devisions like EA/Mythic.
There are a lot of options open and available to them. A buyout or handing over of VG to sony is the most extreme case, but that's all the people that dislike the game care to focus on.
Edit: People should realize that SoE involvement up to this point hasn't been as big as people assume or try to make out. They have been fulfilling thier role as publisher, maintaning servers, and marketing for the game. However that deal works out between dev. and publisher I can't say, but they obviousley made some monetary deal already. What we don't know is if Sigil has been able to fulfill thier role as a company, meeting whatever terms were laid out between Sigil and SoE. They could have or they may not have. It would make a HUGE dif.
I wonder if Sigil wasn't able to fullfil thier part of the contract and they are now going through whatever steps they have to to meet some terms they made with SoE if they couldn't.
I don't believe this at all, but I like starting conspiricies...
What has changed since the release?
Nah .. I think Microsoft let down Vanguard to let it get buggy and then released Vista at the same time as Vangu came out. So they could hide the strange Vista Behaviours and finaly put a big" Games for Windows" Logo ON the lord of the rings.
What has changed since the release?
Do we know that SoE was unwilling to give Sigil more time and money. Really it comes down to money becuase without it you have no time. We do know that Sigil ran out of money, but did they go to SoE and try to get more, did SoE offer?
Or is the notion that SoE refused to give Sigil a loan or make a larger investment into the game then what they agreed to with the Publishing deal just a rumor?
I've never seen anything that said Sony wouldn't pony up to allow further developement. Anyone got a link?
"What has changed since the release?"
Haha ... not much ... just who might actually own this ... hmm ... "game".
Vanguard Saga of Hype
It's not just a new job ... it's craptastic.
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
1) The Matrix Online got a very heavy handed "combat upgrade" as soon as SOE aquired it.2) SWG has had two very heavy handed combat upgrades. (word is there is a third coming) No need to rehash history here.
3) EQ2 got a heavy handed combat upgrade a year after launch. I was around for the combat upgrade and how no one really asked for it. There were a lot of drastic changes to the core concepts and abilities of classes, some to the point that they didn't function like the original . People pick and play classes to suit their gameplay styles and SOE disregarded that and it cost them subscribers. Why SOE thinks they can reboot their class system and rebalance 24 classes in one single patch is beyond me. All they did was shuffle around which classes were overpowered, which underpowered and sprinkled a some nerfs and a few buffs around. Classes that servered no purpose like illusionist/coercer were still just as useless, warlocks became DoT masters and had their nukes nerfed into oblivion, etc, etc, etc. Saying that the combat upgrade was a few tweeks is being less than honest. It is unacceptable to make that drastic of changes over a year into launch and it did upset the games subscriber base. (note they did the same thing with quests/rewards and crafting after that, because well they don't have the pulse of the gaming community anymore).
While you may not agree with my views of EQ2's combat upgrades, there is a pattern that SOE takes and it is indeed to do overhauls of game systems to get what they think will garner more subscriptions. They have yet to succed with a revamp that improves subscription rates.
What will happen with vanguard? It is very likely that SOE will yet again do a combat overhaul and change major game mechanics to try to attract new subscribers. It may not be as drastic as the NGE was, but odds are it will be fairly dramatic when you compare it to what Vanguard was originally marketed as. The people who will be most affected by this are the people who have shown loyalty and stuck with the title.
If you think that the above is incorrect then ask yourself how will SOE turn around the game that is currently in trouble? What measures can they employ to make change. For me it is pretty obvious what they will do as I have lived through it twice.
No one can honestly say that there isn't a likelyhood that SOE will do another major revamp, because that is exactly what they have done to every major title for the last five years. Ignoring a companies past doesn't change the likelyhood of what they do and SOE is hunrgy for a succesful title again.
my two cents:
that is all
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
1) The Matrix Online got a very heavy handed "combat upgrade" as soon as SOE aquired it.2) SWG has had two very heavy handed combat upgrades. (word is there is a third coming) No need to rehash history here.
3) EQ2 got a heavy handed combat upgrade a year after launch. I was around for the combat upgrade and how no one really asked for it. There were a lot of drastic changes to the core concepts and abilities of classes, some to the point that they didn't function like the original . People pick and play classes to suit their gameplay styles and SOE disregarded that and it cost them subscribers. Why SOE thinks they can reboot their class system and rebalance 24 classes in one single patch is beyond me. All they did was shuffle around which classes were overpowered, which underpowered and sprinkled a some nerfs and a few buffs around. Classes that servered no purpose like illusionist/coercer were still just as useless, warlocks became DoT masters and had their nukes nerfed into oblivion, etc, etc, etc. Saying that the combat upgrade was a few tweeks is being less than honest. It is unacceptable to make that drastic of changes over a year into launch and it did upset the games subscriber base. (note they did the same thing with quests/rewards and crafting after that, because well they don't have the pulse of the gaming community anymore).
While you may not agree with my views of EQ2's combat upgrades, there is a pattern that SOE takes and it is indeed to do overhauls of game systems to get what they think will garner more subscriptions. They have yet to succed with a revamp that improves subscription rates.
What will happen with vanguard? It is very likely that SOE will yet again do a combat overhaul and change major game mechanics to try to attract new subscribers. It may not be as drastic as the NGE was, but odds are it will be fairly dramatic when you compare it to what Vanguard was originally marketed as. The people who will be most affected by this are the people who have shown loyalty and stuck with the title.
If you think that the above is incorrect then ask yourself how will SOE turn around the game that is currently in trouble? What measures can they employ to make change. For me it is pretty obvious what they will do as I have lived through it twice.
No one can honestly say that there isn't a likelyhood that SOE will do another major revamp, because that is exactly what they have done to every major title for the last five years. Ignoring a companies past doesn't change the likelyhood of what they do and SOE is hunrgy for a succesful title again.
What does the game need?
You can't upgrade everyone PC so that's out of your hands. It's already been said that while some more optimization will be done the biggest issue performance wise facing VG is the computers themselves.
Seems like the thing they need most is time to implement features and content. There is a lot ot add on top of balancing (like EVERY MMO) and some bug fixes. (like EVERY MMO).
Since they can't get more time, a way to compensate would be for coding to be done and tested faster, and that takes money. The ground work could already be thier but the resources aren't. SoE involvement doesn't neccesarilly mean they will "takeover" dev. of the game. Most of what needs to be done is likely laid out and waiting to be implemented but Sigil alone can't do it.
I think it's a little early to claim SoE is going to make drastic changes to the game before even knowing what's going on. Or what will happen.
They also have to deal with new big titles coming out so the clock is ticking. What Vanguard is currently offering isn't selling for whatever reasons people wish to cling onto. Brad can blame it on system specs for all he wants, but the truth is people will and do upgrade to play those "must have" titles. There are problems with this game on Vista machines and Nvidia cards also. There is a laundry list of other problems no related to system specs, but enough on that.
Games just don't "relaunch" well anymore as can be seen with SWG and EQ2. They might be the greatest things in the world now, but time has passed them both by.
What can SOE/Sigil do to create interest in the game? I ask this not to be a naysayer, but because I am the target demographic for this title and so far it looks to be doing more harm to the industry than the revolution Brad promised. I am very curious to see how things turn out.
100% agree this tiresome SOE/NGE talk is utter crap people really need to move on from what happened with SWG its a game,nothing more,nothing less..there where no plaugues of locusts becuase of it i seem to recall.
Jesus get over it for whatever reasons the NGE happened..so what its a game nothing more.
You only have to look at the combat tweaking SOE did in EQ2 and the game works a treat but the 10 year old SOE haters seem to forget this while whinging on about how they ruined thier (very) broken game.
1) The Matrix Online got a very heavy handed "combat upgrade" as soon as SOE aquired it.2) SWG has had two very heavy handed combat upgrades. (word is there is a third coming) No need to rehash history here.
3) EQ2 got a heavy handed combat upgrade a year after launch. I was around for the combat upgrade and how no one really asked for it. There were a lot of drastic changes to the core concepts and abilities of classes, some to the point that they didn't function like the original . People pick and play classes to suit their gameplay styles and SOE disregarded that and it cost them subscribers. Why SOE thinks they can reboot their class system and rebalance 24 classes in one single patch is beyond me. All they did was shuffle around which classes were overpowered, which underpowered and sprinkled a some nerfs and a few buffs around. Classes that servered no purpose like illusionist/coercer were still just as useless, warlocks became DoT masters and had their nukes nerfed into oblivion, etc, etc, etc. Saying that the combat upgrade was a few tweeks is being less than honest. It is unacceptable to make that drastic of changes over a year into launch and it did upset the games subscriber base. (note they did the same thing with quests/rewards and crafting after that, because well they don't have the pulse of the gaming community anymore).
While you may not agree with my views of EQ2's combat upgrades, there is a pattern that SOE takes and it is indeed to do overhauls of game systems to get what they think will garner more subscriptions. They have yet to succed with a revamp that improves subscription rates.
What will happen with vanguard? It is very likely that SOE will yet again do a combat overhaul and change major game mechanics to try to attract new subscribers. It may not be as drastic as the NGE was, but odds are it will be fairly dramatic when you compare it to what Vanguard was originally marketed as. The people who will be most affected by this are the people who have shown loyalty and stuck with the title.
If you think that the above is incorrect then ask yourself how will SOE turn around the game that is currently in trouble? What measures can they employ to make change. For me it is pretty obvious what they will do as I have lived through it twice.
No one can honestly say that there isn't a likelyhood that SOE will do another major revamp, because that is exactly what they have done to every major title for the last five years. Ignoring a companies past doesn't change the likelyhood of what they do and SOE is hunrgy for a succesful title again.
What does the game need?
You can't upgrade everyone PC so that's out of your hands. It's already been said that while some more optimization will be done the biggest issue performance wise facing VG is the computers themselves.
Seems like the thing they need most is time to implement features and content. There is a lot ot add on top of balancing (like EVERY MMO) and some bug fixes. (like EVERY MMO).
Since they can't get more time, a way to compensate would be for coding to be done and tested faster, and that takes money. The ground work could already be thier but the resources aren't. SoE involvement doesn't neccesarilly mean they will "takeover" dev. of the game. Most of what needs to be done is likely laid out and waiting to be implemented but Sigil alone can't do it.
I think it's a little early to claim SoE is going to make drastic changes to the game before even knowing what's going on. Or what will happen.
www.ps3fanboy.com/search/?q=vanguardIm going to sell you a dream.