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I'm afraid...
vinceh
Member Posts: 208
So I've been playing about almost two weeks now. I have classes and don't have as much time as I used to; I'm getting in about 2-3 hours a day max. This game is very casual and forgiving about non-hardcore playings and I appreciate it. However, I've started to notice a slow decay on the already not-so-good community. Since release, people are starting to get into the mode "Level up as fast as I can and not enjoy the storyline". I'm starting to see high level characters helping lowbies through instances, and I noticed there was a lower fellowship rate now since release as well. I looked for a fellowship for almost an hour yesterday before I could get one going, that's way too long in my opinion. True, I could've been just unlucky, but the population around the area where I was LFF (Barrow Downs) should have allowed me to find a fellowship in decent time.
This is a trend that is seen in many popular games (WoW, EQ2, etc.), which means LOTRO is just following it's own kind. I remember buying EQ2 when it was first released and becoming immediately addicted to it. But my addiction become stale after a month - together combined with the buggy gameplay and engine issues, the game started to crap out when you see level 50s running around with potential level 15 group-mates.
I honestly thought the players for LOTRO are much more dedicated and loyal to the storyline, I very much enjoy this game but it's a misfortune to see where this game is going - complete domination by hierarchy.
-Vin
This is a trend that is seen in many popular games (WoW, EQ2, etc.), which means LOTRO is just following it's own kind. I remember buying EQ2 when it was first released and becoming immediately addicted to it. But my addiction become stale after a month - together combined with the buggy gameplay and engine issues, the game started to crap out when you see level 50s running around with potential level 15 group-mates.
I honestly thought the players for LOTRO are much more dedicated and loyal to the storyline, I very much enjoy this game but it's a misfortune to see where this game is going - complete domination by hierarchy.
-Vin
Comments
Good post, although what you are saying happens in EVERY MMO my friend, and will continue to happen in AoC and WAR. Fellowships/Groups are about as hard to come by sometimes as any other game, LOTRO being no different. Although when you say you are seeing high levels help low levels through instances...maybe they are in a kinship together or are real life friends whom are doing events and have the lore effect just as well.
I am a leader of Mithril Guard on the Arkenstone server and we do events for ALL members, not just the lower level ones in which we go through the storylines/lore together as a kinship and help each other out. This is the way it's supposed to be, helping members and friends whenever possible.
I really think you are digging a little deep, but good post nonetheless.
2. Prosper.
Or, instead of adapting WoW's terrible definition of guilds that only sees them as a stepping stone to gain, actually join a kinship with people youve become friends with and enjoy spending time with even if its not advancing your character.
It wont help you with getting groups for lvling that much, but it will help you with the problem of being exposed to a mediocre community only, and definitely give you reasons to stay.
Good post, although what you are saying happens in EVERY MMO my friend, and will continue to happen in AoC and WAR. Fellowships/Groups are about as hard to come by sometimes as any other game, LOTRO being no different. Although when you say you are seeing high levels help low levels through instances...maybe they are in a kinship together or are real life friends whom are doing events and have the lore effect just as well.
I am a leader of Mithril Guard on the Arkenstone server and we do events for ALL members, not just the lower level ones in which we go through the storylines/lore together as a kinship and help each other out. This is the way it's supposed to be, helping members and friends whenever possible.
I really think you are digging a little deep, but good post nonetheless.
True, as I stated (I think), this is a trend that is seen in most current generation MMOs. However, I think you are over-looking one fact: LoTRO's base attractiveness (in my opinion) is slowly progressing through the storyline and enjoying the world which Tolkien has provided for us (through the translation of Turbine ofcourse). In your other common MMOs - let's take WoW as an example - the gameplay is more PvP based, where it's almost necessary to grind or raid, so general grouping where people actually chat and have a decent time with each other's company is optional. On the contrary, LoTRO offers a smaller amount of PvP (which will expand, in my understanding), and more Story based gameplay where it can only be fully enjoyed by creating Fellowships to raid the dungeons.
I guess my point is if LoTRO swings towards WoW and EQ2 more and more, it will become a terrible game. At least seen in WoW, you can grind through almost all the levels with decent gear. This is boring, but rewarding once you hit levle 70 - you can PvP. What will LoTRO offer once it degenerates? A good storyline which cannot but fully enjoyed, a developing crafting system, and limited PvP.
This also brings up the issues of the content update for June. One of two situations will happen:
1. A terrific update! Extended crafting and an innovative PvP system! This will ensure for a longer life in the game, and provide much incentive for upcoming players.
2. An extension towards it's brothers (WoW, VG, EQ2), where the content is more Solo/Grind based. If this is what happens, I assure you this game will fall.
-Vin
Or, instead of adapting WoW's terrible definition of guilds that only sees them as a stepping stone to gain, actually join a kinship with people youve become friends with and enjoy spending time with even if its not advancing your character.
It wont help you with getting groups for lvling that much, but it will help you with the problem of being exposed to a mediocre community only, and definitely give you reasons to stay.
I've been trying to actually, but have failed miserably. I've found mostly immature kinships or kinships that are "friend based". Either they moved their guild title from another game or they know each other in real life; and if I wanted to make an connection with any of them I'd have to play a lot more than I would have to now.
I will keep my eye open though.
-Vin
But sure, people rush their friends through the game sometimes, just to hang out and help each other.
I remember in the "good" old days of DAOC my Infiltrator could sometimes wait 2-3 hours for a group..and some nights not even find one.... (back in the days of Tree groups for those who remember pre-SI)
Not much has changed, which is why so many people prefer the ability to solo, as forming balanced groups sometimes is more trouble than its worth.
BTW.. 2-3 hours a night is not casual...thats normal for people with jobs and family.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As for my class, yes, I am a Champion, and I understand that it's harder to find Fellowships, or is it?
Let's look at the breakdown of a Fellowship:
1. It can consist of a maximum of 6 players.
2. Two of them being a Healer and a Tank.
3. Now the rest four can be a combination of many things.
- 2 DPS and a crowd control (Burgler or LoreMaster)
- 3 DPS (Yes, this works, 3 champions in a group will put out amazing amounts damage and can kill groups of mobs quick with their AoE moves)
- 2 DPS and a Buffer
There are probably other combinations, but you get the picture. I'm not sure about the server numbers, but let's say the class ratio between a healer and a DPS class is 4:1, that means Champions should take about twice as long to find a group (2 DPS slots on average in a group, and Champions and Hunters deal damage, do the math). Now with my alt Minstral, I can find a group in about 5 minutes, maximum 15. That means I should be able to find a group with a maximum time of 30. This was true in the beginning when I first started, but the wait time has been getting longer and longer.
I hope you're right, liddo, maybe the population on the servers will even out (I'm on silverlode right now, and to my knowledge that is a pretty high populated server).
That's the main reason I quit EQ2, at one point I logged on to the game everyday for 2 hours looking for a group and couldn't find one for a week. I hope this game doesn't mirror my past experience.
2-3 hours a night is pretty casual, I go to class until the afternoon, then do my workout, do some studying, cook and clean, and by that time it's around 8 or 9. I go to sleep at 12 because I have to wake up at 7 the next morning. I do play more on weekends however.
-Vin
Lemme tell you guys a sad story. I play with my son, our computers are 6 feet apart. I was busy doing some crafting and tracking down ore. My son (Age 12) was into questing (He could care less about crafting to be honest.) He was at the "Take Weathertop" quest and was getting together a fellowship.....managed 5 peeps but no healer. They decided to try it anyway, they didn't make it very far and all were dead. I told him it isn't gonna happen without a healer. So, he starts to /lfm for "Weathertop" routine.
I was busy crafting and wasn't paying attention, look over and see them at the top about to finish the quest. I said "Ahhh, found a healer to join, eh?" he said "Well, kinda....." It seems while he was /Looking for Ministrel he was approached by a level 35 ministrel who was offering his services to lower level characters for a price. The initial price was 120 silver but the ultimately decided on 50 silver. Each of the other fellowship members chipped in 10 silver and 10 minutes later they were turning in the quest.
I have never told my son how he should play his games, ps2, xbox360, pc...any of them. This just kinda struck me and I jumped his shit. I dunno....the ministrel was........ working basically. Trying to make some extra gold, whats wrong with that? The group I feel cheated or something. I dunno.....strange one.
I ended up grounding my kid for a month and made him get a job at McDonalds.....damn kids....JK : ) We just talked about it and he still see's nothing wrong with it.....level level level...faster faster faster.....*sigh....12 year olds.
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Now he's really grounded......
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Gold-Sellers never even crossed my mind, but is obviously a big issue. Your instance was almost a double whammy. First off, it was a higher level player helping out low levels, this takes away the fun of reading through and being involved with the quest. Second, it was somebody who offered a service. Is it this saying I can now buy a power-level service with a certain amount of silver?
To be honest, the person who helped your son probably wasn't a Gold seller since it wouldn't be very efficient to make silver that way. However, that is besides the point.
Sigh, the more this post develops, the more anxious I am of the next content update!
-Vin
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Next time I go in-game, the OOC channel will be removed from my chat box.
-Vin
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
What you are experiencing, is all of the other type of gamers that just want to play an MMO in their own way. They might have 8 hours a day to play, or might not be interested in the lore at all. They may just want to powerlevel and get the best gear and loot. But thats ok. There shouldn't be any wrong way to play an MMO, if its designed correctly.
I hope you find some other players in the game that share your same perspective.
Equal opportunity troll.
What you are experiencing, is all of the other type of gamers that just want to play an MMO in their own way. They might have 8 hours a day to play, or might not be interested in the lore at all. They may just want to powerlevel and get the best gear and loot. But thats ok. There shouldn't be any wrong way to play an MMO, if its designed correctly.
I hope you find some other players in the game that share your same perspective.
Aside from the mostly simplistic combat and character development aspects this was the reason I never even cashed in my pre-order. If I wanted to play a script, or piece together a pre-built puzzle I would be looking at other genres that don't charge per month to play.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
What you are experiencing, is all of the other type of gamers that just want to play an MMO in their own way. They might have 8 hours a day to play, or might not be interested in the lore at all. They may just want to powerlevel and get the best gear and loot. But thats ok. There shouldn't be any wrong way to play an MMO, if its designed correctly.
I hope you find some other players in the game that share your same perspective.
There shouldn't be any wrong way to play an MMO, if its designed correctly.
There shouldn't be any wrong way to play an MMO, if its designed correctly.
There shouldn't be any wrong way to play an MMO, if its designed correctly.
I think that is a near perfect statement, and where LoTRO has it's biggest failure (I think anyway), is that LoTRO doesn't offer players any type of gameplay they choose, whether it be Group based, PvP based, Guild (kiinship) based, Raid Based, PvE based, etc.
It has a certain few styles of gameplay that appeals to a certain group of people (LoTRO Fans). However, in the business world, using the title LoTR has their franchise, it can - and is - be a great success; there's a huge pool of die-hard LoTR fans out there! The downside is that this game won't appeal to the other half of the MMO lovers, which in turn leads to forum rants and angry mobs.
So, the moral is: Take a big name in the "Nerd" industry and make it into an MMO, and you can bring the big bucks home.
Come forth! Warhammer Online!
-Vin
I have soloed,duoed tripled and any other combination of groups with every class I can think of. The weirdest was a hunter and 2 LMS and a guardian playing in the great barrows, closley followed by a 3 burglar group doing aurochs in N Downs.
I miss DAoC
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I have done most of the epics up through the level 30's many times and each time was unique because of the class I was playing or because of the varied groups I have been in. In fact I would say that I have done all of the quests through level 20 at least 5 times each and every one was unique, In fact I can guarantee you that no two characters I have played have done the exact same quest lines. Yes there is only one epic, but there are so many sideline quests there is no way you could complete them all before they gray out on you. Not only that but as I mentioned ever run through the great barrows has been a blast and it never gets old because each group and each player is different.
As far as how I approach the game, pick any of my toons and I dare you to find one withe exact or even 75% exact stats because of my traits and equipment and how much variety there is.
No offense smith but you and old stanley just do not seem to be able to grasp what this game is about and how it is played. You simply want to play it at it's most basic level it seems. But that's ok because the game scales beautifully . It can be as simple as can be or extremely complex depending on the skills of the player.
I miss DAoC
Some people can take a look at your post and think of two things (at least this is what I thought):
1. Did you give all the information on your experience in gameplay?
2. If your answer to question 1 was yes, then where is the "possible rest?"
Let me elaborate. You talk about basically your grouping PvE exerperiences throughout the game! That's perfect because that's where LoTRO shines, the storyline, the adventure, the quests. Of course you would have nothing to complain about.
What if I am a competitive player? Does LoTRO give the edge I need to shine in the world of LoTR? Hardly, with skills and traits/deeds available, you have an unlimited amount of skills to choose from, without any restrictions. Sure, you can add a traits to "customize" your character, but let's face the fact: Soon, as this game progresses to where the gameplay can be broken down to little bits and pieces, you will get the "cookie-cutter" builds for your traits. This sad fact is inevitable because of how little the customization actually offers, from experience you will know many traits are far better than other ones, and will be generally used in your tiny pool of 12 slots in your trait window (I think it's 12).
And without a large difference in one player to the next, PvP - which barely exists now - will become boring and stale fast and be shunned by the competitive players out there.
As I had said previously, LoTR cannot offer different style of play if I wanted to approach this game from a different perspective.
And from your later post, I want to point out something you said:
"No offense smith but you and old stanley just do not seem to be able to grasp what this game is about and how it is played" -Jackdog
From this sentence, you almost contradict yourself. You seem to imply that there actually is a certain way to play this game. But before you said you didn't know there was a wrong way to play this game.
And let's take a look at "what if" statements. I always consider these statements for MMOs that seem to lack something, and it offers a good insight at what can be improved about this game.
- What if there was more than one line of Epic Quests?
Would this make the game much more dynamic? I mean, why does every person have to follow the same one? Content like this should have been implemented since it doesn't harm the actual Lore and stays loyal to it's Title.
- What if there was actual customization of the characters?
What more can I say? I mean, how will adding more customization actually hurt the game? I only see positive coming out of this statement.
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Now, I must refer these ideas back to the thread topic. That is, where this game is heading.
This game has a great potential of following games like WoW and EQ2. With the limited gameplay, parts of the game is already static and cannot really change. The parts of the game that is dynamic (Quests as an example), will soon get taken over by money-makers and keeners. That is, soon we will be able to find a "leveling" guide on the internet, where you do certain quests that you benefit the most from you achieve level 50 as fast as possible. As well as guides comes the Gold-farmers. They ruin the game for alot of people, but more-so in this game, where it's mostly Story based and imaginative. You surely do not want to see a group of players all named "gld01" that get in your way of enjoying your quests by killing every mob in sight.
If this game follows the same MMO trend as others have, then it needs to offer more than it has to offer now in order to keep players. Because I know I will stop playing once I see a low population of fellowships and a high population of Power-leveling or Chinese Gold Farmers.
-Vin
Some people can take a look at your post and think of two things (at least this is what I thought):
1. Did you give all the information on your experience in gameplay?
2. If your answer to question 1 was yes, then where is the "possible rest?"
Let me elaborate. You talk about basically your grouping PvE exerperiences throughout the game! That's perfect because that's where LoTRO shines, the storyline, the adventure, the quests. Of course you would have nothing to complain about.
What if I am a competitive player? Does LoTRO give the edge I need to shine in the world of LoTR? Hardly, with skills and traits/deeds available, you have an unlimited amount of skills to choose from, without any restrictions. Sure, you can add a traits to "customize" your character, but let's face the fact: Soon, as this game progresses to where the gameplay can be broken down to little bits and pieces, you will get the "cookie-cutter" builds for your traits. This sad fact is inevitable because of how little the customization actually offers, from experience you will know many traits are far better than other ones, and will be generally used in your tiny pool of 12 slots in your trait window (I think it's 12).
And without a large difference in one player to the next, PvP - which barely exists now - will become boring and stale fast and be shunned by the competitive players out there.
As I had said previously, LoTR cannot offer different style of play if I wanted to approach this game from a different perspective.
And from your later post, I want to point out something you said:
"No offense smith but you and old stanley just do not seem to be able to grasp what this game is about and how it is played" -Jackdog
From this sentence, you almost contradict yourself. You seem to imply that there actually is a certain way to play this game. But before you said you didn't know there was a wrong way to play this game.
And let's take a look at "what if" statements. I always consider these statements for MMOs that seem to lack something, and it offers a good insight at what can be improved about this game.
- What if there was more than one line of Epic Quests?
Would this make the game much more dynamic? I mean, why does every person have to follow the same one? Content like this should have been implemented since it doesn't harm the actual Lore and stays loyal to it's Title.
- What if there was actual customization of the characters?
What more can I say? I mean, how will adding more customization actually hurt the game? I only see positive coming out of this statement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I must refer these ideas back to the thread topic. That is, where this game is heading.
This game has a great potential of following games like WoW and EQ2. With the limited gameplay, parts of the game is already static and cannot really change. The parts of the game that is dynamic (Quests as an example), will soon get taken over by money-makers and keeners. That is, soon we will be able to find a "leveling" guide on the internet, where you do certain quests that you benefit the most from you achieve level 50 as fast as possible. As well as guides comes the Gold-farmers. They ruin the game for alot of people, but more-so in this game, where it's mostly Story based and imaginative. You surely do not want to see a group of players all named "gld01" that get in your way of enjoying your quests by killing every mob in sight.
If this game follows the same MMO trend as others have, then it needs to offer more than it has to offer now in order to keep players. Because I know I will stop playing once I see a low population of fellowships and a high population of Power-leveling or Chinese Gold Farmers.
-Vin
once again I have to say what limited game play? You can play the game any way you want no one forces you to ever do the main storyline quests. If you chose not to you would not be in the least bit gimped. There are more quests and content in LoTRO than you could ever do. If you chose not to do any quests at all nothing is stopping you. Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp?
As far as gold farmers I have not received a single tell from one since the open beta, how ever I am sure some are there just as they are and will be in every MMORPG that is out now and every single one that will ever be released. Might as well find a new hobby if that is a game stopper for you.
I miss DAoC
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