All that matters in the long run is that there will be PvP. The real issue here is what the penalty will be for losing. The only way to make PvP intense (in my opinion) is to either have xp loss or have players able to loot your gear off your corpse. The former is probably the most viable as you can get xp back. If the grind is hard enough it'll make you fight wisely and with everything you have but won't scare you off from fighting other players. The latter is an extreme penalty late in the game (not so much at the start when you havn't had the chance to try get some hard-to-obtain gear). I imagine it would make people not want to PvP much at all, but those who do would, I imagine, get a huge rush from it. Personally I'd like to see an xp loss on death from either PvP or PvE as it adds a certain amount of intensity to fighting. After playing Lineage 2 (I didn't PvP THAT much as it all really took place at the higher levels and I only got to 50-something) and having the reality of DE-levelling looming over your shoulders as you get into a fight makes you fight so much harder and makes it so much more interesting. I know, however, that this isn't a popular idea in this community. Why, I won't even venture a guess, but from everyone I have talked to it's the people who have played a game with xp loss that love it and the people who have never played a game with xp loss that shun the idea - much like judging a book by it's cover. They only see "XP LOSS" and don't think of the benefits of it. Do you know how good it feels to win a hard fought fight and know that the losing combatant has just been punished for losing by having some xp stripped (moreso at later levels when xp is harder to come by)? That in itself is a reward and until you experience the thrill of it, your PvP experience (again, IMO) is going to be a bland one.
I am not really at odds with your suggestion, but your reason lacks echos. The losing side has to be punished for you to enjoy a fight? So after a badminton game, you have to see the loser losing a limp or breaking his $500 racket for you to enjoy the "fight"? Is that a bit pervert?
the trouble i see with FFA servers is the fact that as the game nears maturity with a fair few players at the top end, u get bored gank squads going around the place killing lower level players because they have nothing else to do, or think its funny to see a character far outclassed get 1 shot, or whatever the motivation is for doing it, and so they will go out and see a low toon grinding xp doing whatever (pve, same level pvp, questing) and will just jump him for no reason and kick his butt, now this is hillarious for the player doing the grief, but for the guy who just got his ass handed to him its not all that fun at all, but people dont stop with killing the once they will stay there and when the poor guy respawns, pow! hes dead again, now say what u will about you not being a griefer and being a pvper, i bet you have gone out when bored to kill a few new toons, just for cracks with a few mates ect dont lie now, because EVERYONE on FFA servers do it at some point :P. The majority of people who play mmo's and play on ffa servers, (i have done from day one with EQ) are not nice people when grouped with friends, i have gone out with a couple of mates to go "pwn the nubs" and yes its fun for a bit , but ive been on the reciving end where ive been a fresh toon and maxxed out people have come along and camped me for 1/2 hour, thats karma, but i know for a fact i would rather have a fighting chance to kill the person who has griefed me then being hopelessly outclassed. if they ever did a FFA on WAR, which i doubt, they would have to do something like u cant kill people within <>4 levels or something that way everyone has a chance to go all Charles Manson and slaughter anyone they can find within the range, but then people way lower would be safe from retaliation.
Too me all forms of PVP are fine in a FFA environment, whether they be fair fights, or me be completely ganked or killed while pveing... if they weren't - I wouldn't have chosen a FFA server or ruleset to begin with. Half the fun (for me at least) is the randomness and harshness of a FFA environment, I like being on my toes not knowing what - or who - lies around the next corner.
You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment..meaning a skilled low level nub should be able to stand his own against a higher level moron.
It's because this is a old arguement. Griefing and ganking is different then real pvp. Sit around "wanting" to pvp? NO i'm out actually pvping in square battles against people, not to make them suffer, but to make myself win. It's really just a different mentality, if you can't grasp that being a pvper(which i am) and a griefer(which i am not) is a different thing then your blind to the issue. I grew up playing magic the gathering, with friends, at local tournaments, and with friends(i list this again because this is the majority of what i did). Did we play for each others cards? When I lost did i have to give him some of my deck? When i won did i get to cut up a few of his land cards? No? Why not? Wouldn't it make it more fun? Then when i started playing FPS games(i didn't get a pc untill i was 15) i played unreal online like it was going out of style, and eventually moved into half life mods. But the playstyle remained the same, it was still a fight to win, it wasn't about making the other player lose something. Now you may argue that it isn't about making them lose something, but instead that you feel constantly at risk. While i do agree that this is a valid reason, the thing is, this is a war forum, and we are talking about war. Which is what my post implied. PvP in war is for all levels, and is a main aspect of the game, and is a valid way to play a character. A penalty doesn't make you play smarter, it makes you play less, and makes you choose fights only you can win(which is what leads to griefing and ganking becoming main stream). You can argue, that you choose fair fights only, and that's what makes it exciting, that's what everyone says, but once you get into the game you see how people truely behave. But in all truths, it's just not what happens. You mention FFXI, that game is pure pve, and pve is where you lose exp. I played astonia, as a hardcore character, and let me tell you something, it was more challenging and risky then your "uber risky FFXI". Negative exp which is like a exp loss, and you also dropped your entire inventory. If you were in the middle of pents that required your gear, you'd have to beg for help or you just lost everything. And to make matters worse. You only had 30 minutes. PvP is seperate from PK. That's a fact.
Whatever makes you happy. All I know is, that I would love to kill guys with that kind of high elf mentality in-game... over, and over, and over, and over... hehe
All I know is, with your kind of mentality, I would never want to play with you.
Punts off. Bladin has a point, well expressed. A game is played for the pleasure of all. Ganking and the mentality to inflict pain on the loser will discourage trial and error. People will not try out new things cos a failed trial = heavy losses. Its like a real war. People don't start it b/c if you lose you will be lining up at the gates to heaven or hell.
With a wargame we want people to try things out, to explore, to win and lose and still enjoy it. We want the players to keep coming back, so we can play on and on. If its a game where only the winner survive, soon there will be only one (highlander) and you will be sitting inside the game alone, yelling LFG/LF duels over and over, and over ... hehe
I for one do not believe that the current population of gamers now does not include a few gankers and griefers. Bad players drives out good players, and eventually a FFA PVP server will be populated with only the griefers, waiting in vain at the newbie zone for the next unwary newbie to log in with a new character. These griefers will exploit all loopholes in the rules to grief and the less unscrupulous players will either move to non FFA servers or to the next game.
the trouble i see with FFA servers is the fact that as the game nears maturity with a fair few players at the top end, u get bored gank squads going around the place killing lower level players because they have nothing else to do, or think its funny to see a character far outclassed get 1 shot, or whatever the motivation is for doing it, and so they will go out and see a low toon grinding xp doing whatever (pve, same level pvp, questing) and will just jump him for no reason and kick his butt, now this is hillarious for the player doing the grief, but for the guy who just got his ass handed to him its not all that fun at all, but people dont stop with killing the once they will stay there and when the poor guy respawns, pow! hes dead again, now say what u will about you not being a griefer and being a pvper, i bet you have gone out when bored to kill a few new toons, just for cracks with a few mates ect dont lie now, because EVERYONE on FFA servers do it at some point :P. The majority of people who play mmo's and play on ffa servers, (i have done from day one with EQ) are not nice people when grouped with friends, i have gone out with a couple of mates to go "pwn the nubs" and yes its fun for a bit , but ive been on the reciving end where ive been a fresh toon and maxxed out people have come along and camped me for 1/2 hour, thats karma, but i know for a fact i would rather have a fighting chance to kill the person who has griefed me then being hopelessly outclassed. if they ever did a FFA on WAR, which i doubt, they would have to do something like u cant kill people within <>4 levels or something that way everyone has a chance to go all Charles Manson and slaughter anyone they can find within the range, but then people way lower would be safe from retaliation.
Too me all forms of PVP are fine in a FFA environment, whether they be fair fights, or me be completely ganked or killed while pveing... if they weren't - I wouldn't have chosen a FFA server or ruleset to begin with. Half the fun (for me at least) is the randomness and harshness of a FFA environment, I like being on my toes not knowing what - or who - lies around the next corner.
You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment..meaning a skilled low level nub should be able to stand his own against a higher level moron.
ok fair play, FFA on games as it stands is precisly that. FFA which is fine and grand ive been there on EVE EQ, WOW, EQ2 and many other's. but for example you say "You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment" take EVE for example. i was fairly nub at the game i will admit, I was training up with the battleship skills and was running round in a battlecruiser with fairly tight gear, now ive played MMO's scince the dawn of time and know my way around, i pvp all the time and i do enjoy it, EVE is supposed to be one of the prime examples of PvP warfare and FFA, i wasnt affiliated with any corp and had never stolen a thing while in game, had 2.5mill SP and was really enjoying it, so i was in my tug flying around and i hit a gate camp, 10 or so boats tear me a new one in seconds, now it was probably fun for them guys blasting all my worldly goods and letting me limp off in a pod, but how would skill ever have prevented that, now that is a prime example of why pvp FFA is a bad thing imho, and yes i know that thats how the game plays, i know thats what i signed up for, but to cripple a no-one for no reason is just wrong and im glad WAR will be more structured then that, structured FFA is better in the long run then out and out gank fests IMHO
Whatever makes you happy. All I know is, that I would love to kill guys with that kind of high elf mentality in-game... over, and over, and over, and over... hehe
And that's where you're missing the point. And also the reason that you will probably quit playing WAR after a few weeks.
The game is not about you, it's not about how many people you can kill or what kind of grief you can bestow on others, it's about your realm and fighting to gain control of the battle field to tip the scales in your faction's favor.
You could just go around killing random people if you want, or griefing one guy, but no one's going to care if it's not helpin your realm get closer to the enemy's capitol city.
In WAR the game is all about your faction, you and your fellow realm mates fighting together to take over your enemy's city. Trust me, no one is going to care that you're #1 in number of kills in RvR if you're realm is losing.
Aye that is what RVR is. Members of a same realm will not need balancing among each other, no need to nerf one against another. Balancing only occurs across realms, and that is easier to manage.
That really helps create solidarity among members of the same realm. I remember the days I started playing DAoC. Midgards ran pass me on the way and say "hey new member, go to dungeon X, that is better place to level than this riverbank"... We do not enjoy killing each other, we want everyone to be strong so we can move out and grab an extra relic, or prepare to defend DF, so that the winning realm will not be able to enjoy it while we hold the entrance. We not know each other, for us, the one fighting next to me is just another midgard, just someone on our SIDE, OUR side.
ok fair play, FFA on games as it stands is precisly that. FFA which is fine and grand ive been there on EVE EQ, WOW, EQ2 and many other's. but for example you say "You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment" take EVE for example. i was fairly nub at the game i will admit, I was training up with the battleship skills and was running round in a battlecruiser with fairly tight gear, now ive played MMO's scince the dawn of time and know my way around, i pvp all the time and i do enjoy it, EVE is supposed to be one of the prime examples of PvP warfare and FFA, i wasnt affiliated with any corp and had never stolen a thing while in game, had 2.5mill SP and was really enjoying it, so i was in my tug flying around and i hit a gate camp, 10 or so boats tear me a new one in seconds, now it was probably fun for them guys blasting all my worldly goods and letting me limp off in a pod, but how would skill ever have prevented that, now that is a prime example of why pvp FFA is a bad thing imho, and yes i know that thats how the game plays, i know thats what i signed up for, but to cripple a no-one for no reason is just wrong and im glad WAR will be more structured then that, structured FFA is better in the long run then out and out gank fests IMHO
WOW didn't have FFA, and EQ and EQ2 are extremely good examples of PVE games with PVP added on an afterthought.
As for your example in EVE - I really don't know what this has to do with FFA, as it could just has easily happened in any RVR game. As for skill, well they may have been just as skilled as you - and had better ships - and had the numbers, so again your example doesn't really show anything.
From all my past experiences in PVP MMO's, IMHO I think RVR encourages more ganking than FFA games, as RVR games it's pretty much red = dead, you don't even need a reason to do it as the game pretty much tell's you - YOUR AT WAR, KILL THEM ALL!
Go around with that same 'red is dead' attitude in a FFA game and you will quickly make a name for yourself, and find yourself KOS to a LOT of people and guilds.
There is nothing wrong with your FFA PVP, and I sincerely believe you want the fun out of it without griefing. Unfortunately two factors work against you.
You are a PVP gentlemen, but there are PVP rogues out there. There is no way to filter out a griefer in your FFA PVP server, they will go there and exploit all lootholes to gank and grief, and after rampaging the game they will move to another server or another game, leaving the devastated server to die or be terminated. Bad players drives out good players. The Asian model of limits and checks are wise. You do not like them? Too bad. Without the rules, the server will degenerate, and there will not be even a viable FFA PVP for you to live our your honorable way of FFA PVPing.
The second factor follows, no major game producer will develop a game geared towards FFA PVP. They either open a FFA PVP server later with a game engine not perfectly fit for it, or do some half hearted restricted pvp, like arenas or duels.
I know AoC and Darkfall are selling PVP, but as was widely mentioned by other wise members here, I will wait till I see it.
the way i see FFA is where any level toon be it from opposing faction or whatever can gank the hell out of people, ive never played a game where u start off a level 1 toon and can turn around and just attack another level 1 toon standing beside you, but EQ was FFA in a sense because get a PK coming after you it dont matter where they were from u would get wiped the floor with, in WoW u get out of the comfy home zone and you are pvp tagged and can get ganked, thats FFA imho not as open FFA as some but its still a FFA, in EVE u are open to attack anywhere and thats as FFA as it gets, what im trying to get across is the fact that griefing happens in FFA environments no matter what anyone says and thats life because u didnt have to sign up/ play the thing, but griefing is a bad thing full stop, i dont care how many pvp games u played, getting griefed is not nice no matter what anyone says, u may enjoy the thrill of going round the corner and meeting a dude who u may want to fight yeah thats fair enough we all like a fight we can theoreticly win, but mindlessly zerging nubs is not good for anyone and does no good to anyone so, in that sense a structured PvP environment is better suited especially for an mmo. but each to their own
the way i see FFA is where any level toon be it from opposing faction or whatever can gank the hell out of people, ive never played a game where u start off a level 1 toon and can turn around and just attack another level 1 toon standing beside you, but EQ was FFA in a sense because get a PK coming after you it dont matter where they were from u would get wiped the floor with, in WoW u get out of the comfy home zone and you are pvp tagged and can get ganked, thats FFA imho not as open FFA as some but its still a FFA, in EVE u are open to attack anywhere and thats as FFA as it gets, what im trying to get across is the fact that griefing happens in FFA environments no matter what anyone says and thats life because u didnt have to sign up/ play the thing, but griefing is a bad thing full stop, i dont care how many pvp games u played, getting griefed is not nice no matter what anyone says, u may enjoy the thrill of going round the corner and meeting a dude who u may want to fight yeah thats fair enough we all like a fight we can theoreticly win, but mindlessly zerging nubs is not good for anyone and does no good to anyone so, in that sense a structured PvP environment is better suited especially for an mmo. but each to their own may we meet in WAR someday. /goes to bed
WOW isn't FFA (there's fixed sides), WOW is RVR - and yes, I agree, there was plenty of ganking going on in WOW, much more so than in any FFA game I have every played, and I've pretty much played them all.
Griefing and ganking has happened in every PAST RVR game I've played, it's not isolated to FFA games. In MY personal playstyle I have NEVER been griefed, and ganking, well..I just brush it off, get some friends and get revenge. The last thing most FFA PVP'ers want is system enforced rules which restrict player freedom or dumb down PVP; as that's the beauty of FFA PVP, and thats just another one of the many reasons we enjoy it so much - the freedom, choice, rivalry, politics AND harshness.
I generally play a ANTI RPK in any good FFA game, meaning - the more RPK's, the more griefers, the more arsehats...the better! As more enemies = more content = more excitement and more to do.
If you really can't handle griefing, ganking etc.. sure, then FFA PVP games (as well as a lot of RVR games) probably aren't a good choice for you, nobodies saying this rulesets for everyone...that's the beauty of choice...and like you said, to each his own!
And yes, I'll be in WAR for sure, FFA server or not!
the way i see FFA is where any level toon be it from opposing faction or whatever can gank the hell out of people, ive never played a game where u start off a level 1 toon and can turn around and just attack another level 1 toon standing beside you, but EQ was FFA in a sense because get a PK coming after you it dont matter where they were from u would get wiped the floor with, in WoW u get out of the comfy home zone and you are pvp tagged and can get ganked, thats FFA imho not as open FFA as some but its still a FFA, in EVE u are open to attack anywhere and thats as FFA as it gets, what im trying to get across is the fact that griefing happens in FFA environments no matter what anyone says and thats life because u didnt have to sign up/ play the thing, but griefing is a bad thing full stop, i dont care how many pvp games u played, getting griefed is not nice no matter what anyone says, u may enjoy the thrill of going round the corner and meeting a dude who u may want to fight yeah thats fair enough we all like a fight we can theoreticly win, but mindlessly zerging nubs is not good for anyone and does no good to anyone so, in that sense a structured PvP environment is better suited especially for an mmo. but each to their own may we meet in WAR someday. /goes to bed
WOW isn't FFA (there's fixed sides), WOW is RVR - and yes, I agree, there was plenty of ganking going on in WOW, much more so than in any FFA game I have every played, and I've pretty much played them all.
Griefing and ganking has happened in every PAST RVR game I've played, it's not isolated to FFA games. In MY personal playstyle I have NEVER been griefed, and ganking, well..I just brush it off, get some friends and get revenge. The last thing most FFA PVP'ers want is system enforced rules which restrict player freedom or dumb down PVP; as that's the beauty of FFA PVP, and thats just another one of the many reasons we enjoy it so much - the freedom, choice, rivalry, politics AND harshness.
Yeah FFA PVPers want no rules, of cos, they are called FFA PVPers, but not all PVP players want FFA, that is the point.
I generally play a ANTI RPK in any good FFA game, meaning - the more RPK's, the more griefers, the more arsehats...the better! As more enemies = more content = more excitement and more to do.
That has yet to be proven, and really hard to prove. I do not think that DAoC is a gank feast. There are zergs, indeed. In all games number wins. If you cannot beat a boss with 1 team do it with 3 more teams fighting alongside after you pull (non instanced of cos). Zergs are sugar coated into a purposeful fight, we are fighting for our side. In FFA PVPs its the griefers who enjoys most as they can do anything they want with no fear or RL reprisal. Much like a rapist in a FFA sim game (if sexual assault is programmed in). The PVP gentlemen are there but the new players will not meet and enjoy fighting with them. Its the gank griefers that greets the everyday player, killing them over and over and over again. And they boast about it, as some talked here in the same mentality/
If you really can't handle griefing, ganking etc.. sure, then FFA PVP games (as well as a lot of RVR games) probably aren't a good choice for you, nobodies saying this rulesets for everyone...that's the beauty of choice...and like you said, to each his own!
YES we all agree with this, unfortunately, the developers also sees that and so are unwilling to invest huge money in making a game that are geared towards FFA PVP. WAR is not.
And yes, I'll be in WAR for sure, FFA server or not!
That is sad but true, we have no good game engine allowing for FFA PVP, not even counterstrike in which the good side can fight each other, no.
Maybe if a good FFA PVP game comes up, it will reap all the market that is there.
how can u possibly have FFAPVP when the game world is broken up so much? surely to have any sort of FFAPVP then first you need a way for everyone to meet up?
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
how can u possibly have FFAPVP when the game world is broken up so much? surely to have any sort of FFAPVP then first you need a way for everyone to meet up?
So long as the PVP zones can handle enough players for a meaningful fight, people can travel there to meet up and fight. The point though is, do we want FFA type of PVP in WAR, will the developer want that?
The way things are going and the anti griefer dynamics that the developers have announced they are putting in War,
I don't think we will ever have to worry about FFA PvP. If a person is looking for that type of thing in a MMO they can try out the poorly developed ones out now like EQ2 (twink griefer haven).
On a note, I played on a FFA server in Vanguard and it was a damn ghost town to the 25th power compared to the PvE servers. The only people that played on the server was the guilds that pretty much started there when it was first developed (an most of the populace have joined one or two of those guilds to stave off griefers).
I wish it was possible for them to do so. But like someone said in an earlier post. in DAoC i lived for mordred but it just wasn't successful not a lot of gamers like that. But i wish i could experience it again haha. Nothing like having a group of 5 friends all with compatible classes running around and owning everything you see. good times DAoC
Comments
I am not really at odds with your suggestion, but your reason lacks echos. The losing side has to be punished for you to enjoy a fight? So after a badminton game, you have to see the loser losing a limp or breaking his $500 racket for you to enjoy the "fight"? Is that a bit pervert?
Too me all forms of PVP are fine in a FFA environment, whether they be fair fights, or me be completely ganked or killed while pveing... if they weren't - I wouldn't have chosen a FFA server or ruleset to begin with. Half the fun (for me at least) is the randomness and harshness of a FFA environment, I like being on my toes not knowing what - or who - lies around the next corner.
You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment..meaning a skilled low level nub should be able to stand his own against a higher level moron.
Whatever makes you happy. All I know is, that I would love to kill guys with that kind of high elf mentality in-game... over, and over, and over, and over... hehe
All I know is, with your kind of mentality, I would never want to play with you.Punts off. Bladin has a point, well expressed. A game is played for the pleasure of all. Ganking and the mentality to inflict pain on the loser will discourage trial and error. People will not try out new things cos a failed trial = heavy losses. Its like a real war. People don't start it b/c if you lose you will be lining up at the gates to heaven or hell.
With a wargame we want people to try things out, to explore, to win and lose and still enjoy it. We want the players to keep coming back, so we can play on and on. If its a game where only the winner survive, soon there will be only one (highlander) and you will be sitting inside the game alone, yelling LFG/LF duels over and over, and over ... hehe
I for one do not believe that the current population of gamers now does not include a few gankers and griefers. Bad players drives out good players, and eventually a FFA PVP server will be populated with only the griefers, waiting in vain at the newbie zone for the next unwary newbie to log in with a new character. These griefers will exploit all loopholes in the rules to grief and the less unscrupulous players will either move to non FFA servers or to the next game.
Too me all forms of PVP are fine in a FFA environment, whether they be fair fights, or me be completely ganked or killed while pveing... if they weren't - I wouldn't have chosen a FFA server or ruleset to begin with. Half the fun (for me at least) is the randomness and harshness of a FFA environment, I like being on my toes not knowing what - or who - lies around the next corner.
You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment..meaning a skilled low level nub should be able to stand his own against a higher level moron.
ok fair play, FFA on games as it stands is precisly that. FFA which is fine and grand ive been there on EVE EQ, WOW, EQ2 and many other's. but for example you say "You will also find that in any decent FFA PVP game SKILL is often one of the main deciding factors in fights, not levels or equipment" take EVE for example. i was fairly nub at the game i will admit, I was training up with the battleship skills and was running round in a battlecruiser with fairly tight gear, now ive played MMO's scince the dawn of time and know my way around, i pvp all the time and i do enjoy it, EVE is supposed to be one of the prime examples of PvP warfare and FFA, i wasnt affiliated with any corp and had never stolen a thing while in game, had 2.5mill SP and was really enjoying it, so i was in my tug flying around and i hit a gate camp, 10 or so boats tear me a new one in seconds, now it was probably fun for them guys blasting all my worldly goods and letting me limp off in a pod, but how would skill ever have prevented that, now that is a prime example of why pvp FFA is a bad thing imho, and yes i know that thats how the game plays, i know thats what i signed up for, but to cripple a no-one for no reason is just wrong and im glad WAR will be more structured then that, structured FFA is better in the long run then out and out gank fests IMHO
The game is not about you, it's not about how many people you can kill or what kind of grief you can bestow on others, it's about your realm and fighting to gain control of the battle field to tip the scales in your faction's favor.
You could just go around killing random people if you want, or griefing one guy, but no one's going to care if it's not helpin your realm get closer to the enemy's capitol city.
In WAR the game is all about your faction, you and your fellow realm mates fighting together to take over your enemy's city. Trust me, no one is going to care that you're #1 in number of kills in RvR if you're realm is losing.
Aye that is what RVR is. Members of a same realm will not need balancing among each other, no need to nerf one against another. Balancing only occurs across realms, and that is easier to manage.That really helps create solidarity among members of the same realm. I remember the days I started playing DAoC. Midgards ran pass me on the way and say "hey new member, go to dungeon X, that is better place to level than this riverbank"... We do not enjoy killing each other, we want everyone to be strong so we can move out and grab an extra relic, or prepare to defend DF, so that the winning realm will not be able to enjoy it while we hold the entrance. We not know each other, for us, the one fighting next to me is just another midgard, just someone on our SIDE, OUR side.
As for your example in EVE - I really don't know what this has to do with FFA, as it could just has easily happened in any RVR game. As for skill, well they may have been just as skilled as you - and had better ships - and had the numbers, so again your example doesn't really show anything.
From all my past experiences in PVP MMO's, IMHO I think RVR encourages more ganking than FFA games, as RVR games it's pretty much red = dead, you don't even need a reason to do it as the game pretty much tell's you - YOUR AT WAR, KILL THEM ALL!
Go around with that same 'red is dead' attitude in a FFA game and you will quickly make a name for yourself, and find yourself KOS to a LOT of people and guilds.
To Dameonk and Zigmund
There is nothing wrong with your FFA PVP, and I sincerely believe you want the fun out of it without griefing. Unfortunately two factors work against you.
You are a PVP gentlemen, but there are PVP rogues out there. There is no way to filter out a griefer in your FFA PVP server, they will go there and exploit all lootholes to gank and grief, and after rampaging the game they will move to another server or another game, leaving the devastated server to die or be terminated. Bad players drives out good players. The Asian model of limits and checks are wise. You do not like them? Too bad. Without the rules, the server will degenerate, and there will not be even a viable FFA PVP for you to live our your honorable way of FFA PVPing.
The second factor follows, no major game producer will develop a game geared towards FFA PVP. They either open a FFA PVP server later with a game engine not perfectly fit for it, or do some half hearted restricted pvp, like arenas or duels.
I know AoC and Darkfall are selling PVP, but as was widely mentioned by other wise members here, I will wait till I see it.
the way i see FFA is where any level toon be it from opposing faction or whatever can gank the hell out of people, ive never played a game where u start off a level 1 toon and can turn around and just attack another level 1 toon standing beside you, but EQ was FFA in a sense because get a PK coming after you it dont matter where they were from u would get wiped the floor with, in WoW u get out of the comfy home zone and you are pvp tagged and can get ganked, thats FFA imho not as open FFA as some but its still a FFA, in EVE u are open to attack anywhere and thats as FFA as it gets, what im trying to get across is the fact that griefing happens in FFA environments no matter what anyone says and thats life because u didnt have to sign up/ play the thing, but griefing is a bad thing full stop, i dont care how many pvp games u played, getting griefed is not nice no matter what anyone says, u may enjoy the thrill of going round the corner and meeting a dude who u may want to fight yeah thats fair enough we all like a fight we can theoreticly win, but mindlessly zerging nubs is not good for anyone and does no good to anyone so, in that sense a structured PvP environment is better suited especially for an mmo. but each to their own
may we meet in WAR someday. /goes to bed
WOW isn't FFA (there's fixed sides), WOW is RVR - and yes, I agree, there was plenty of ganking going on in WOW, much more so than in any FFA game I have every played, and I've pretty much played them all.
Griefing and ganking has happened in every PAST RVR game I've played, it's not isolated to FFA games. In MY personal playstyle I have NEVER been griefed, and ganking, well..I just brush it off, get some friends and get revenge. The last thing most FFA PVP'ers want is system enforced rules which restrict player freedom or dumb down PVP; as that's the beauty of FFA PVP, and thats just another one of the many reasons we enjoy it so much - the freedom, choice, rivalry, politics AND harshness.
I generally play a ANTI RPK in any good FFA game, meaning - the more RPK's, the more griefers, the more arsehats...the better! As more enemies = more content = more excitement and more to do.
If you really can't handle griefing, ganking etc.. sure, then FFA PVP games (as well as a lot of RVR games) probably aren't a good choice for you, nobodies saying this rulesets for everyone...that's the beauty of choice...and like you said, to each his own!
And yes, I'll be in WAR for sure, FFA server or not!
WOW isn't FFA (there's fixed sides), WOW is RVR - and yes, I agree, there was plenty of ganking going on in WOW, much more so than in any FFA game I have every played, and I've pretty much played them all.
Griefing and ganking has happened in every PAST RVR game I've played, it's not isolated to FFA games. In MY personal playstyle I have NEVER been griefed, and ganking, well..I just brush it off, get some friends and get revenge. The last thing most FFA PVP'ers want is system enforced rules which restrict player freedom or dumb down PVP; as that's the beauty of FFA PVP, and thats just another one of the many reasons we enjoy it so much - the freedom, choice, rivalry, politics AND harshness.
Yeah FFA PVPers want no rules, of cos, they are called FFA PVPers, but not all PVP players want FFA, that is the point.
I generally play a ANTI RPK in any good FFA game, meaning - the more RPK's, the more griefers, the more arsehats...the better! As more enemies = more content = more excitement and more to do.
That has yet to be proven, and really hard to prove. I do not think that DAoC is a gank feast. There are zergs, indeed. In all games number wins. If you cannot beat a boss with 1 team do it with 3 more teams fighting alongside after you pull (non instanced of cos). Zergs are sugar coated into a purposeful fight, we are fighting for our side. In FFA PVPs its the griefers who enjoys most as they can do anything they want with no fear or RL reprisal. Much like a rapist in a FFA sim game (if sexual assault is programmed in). The PVP gentlemen are there but the new players will not meet and enjoy fighting with them. Its the gank griefers that greets the everyday player, killing them over and over and over again. And they boast about it, as some talked here in the same mentality/
If you really can't handle griefing, ganking etc.. sure, then FFA PVP games (as well as a lot of RVR games) probably aren't a good choice for you, nobodies saying this rulesets for everyone...that's the beauty of choice...and like you said, to each his own!
YES we all agree with this, unfortunately, the developers also sees that and so are unwilling to invest huge money in making a game that are geared towards FFA PVP. WAR is not.
And yes, I'll be in WAR for sure, FFA server or not!
That is sad but true, we have no good game engine allowing for FFA PVP, not even counterstrike in which the good side can fight each other, no.Maybe if a good FFA PVP game comes up, it will reap all the market that is there.
how can u possibly have FFAPVP when the game world is broken up so much? surely to have any sort of FFAPVP then first you need a way for everyone to meet up?
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
So long as the PVP zones can handle enough players for a meaningful fight, people can travel there to meet up and fight. The point though is, do we want FFA type of PVP in WAR, will the developer want that?
The way things are going and the anti griefer dynamics that the developers have announced they are putting in War,
I don't think we will ever have to worry about FFA PvP. If a person is looking for that type of thing in a MMO they can try out the poorly developed ones out now like EQ2 (twink griefer haven).
On a note, I played on a FFA server in Vanguard and it was a damn ghost town to the 25th power compared to the PvE servers. The only people that played on the server was the guilds that pretty much started there when it was first developed (an most of the populace have joined one or two of those guilds to stave off griefers).
I wish it was possible for them to do so. But like someone said in an earlier post. in DAoC i lived for mordred but it just wasn't successful not a lot of gamers like that. But i wish i could experience it again haha. Nothing like having a group of 5 friends all with compatible classes running around and owning everything you see. good times DAoC