They both lack art direction to me : Look pretty generic and bland and boring.......... Vanguard is obviously the worst outta the two but LOTRO just was pretty bad aswel lol.
For me the game needs good art and thats something WOW and EVE and SWG and any good mmorpg i play has.
LMAO hahaha WOW has good art muwahahahaha chuck the bananas and pyjamas in there and you would have playschoo on steroids...WOW has good art hahahaha you are too funny
LMAO hahaha WOW has good art muwahahahaha chuck the bananas and pyjamas in there and you would have playschoo on steroids...WOW has good art hahahaha you are too funny
Didn't necessarily say that WoW has "good" art (though millions would argue that it does) but it does have excellent art direction. It retains a consistent stylistic look and feel throughout, while simultaneously creating a wide variety of settings with very distinct moods. The models, mobs, architecture and everything else all fits together into a cohesive whole. By contrast Vanguard's art direction can be summed up by its racial diversity: just the same body with different heads stuck on like Pez dispensers.
LMAO hahaha WOW has good art muwahahahaha chuck the bananas and pyjamas in there and you would have playschoo on steroids...WOW has good art hahahaha you are too funny
Okay i like Vanguard much much more then WoW, but to even consider to place a reaction about WoW not having good artwork makes me think either you'r not a gamer or just never have played a game or you have no idea what is meant with artwork. All i can say is that the artwork in WoW is GREAT! this does not mean its my taste. But then again you have to be openminded to understand that. Yes Vanguard artwork also good (not great) cause much is sort of misplaced at times (oaktree/palmtree at same locations for example as seen in my own screenshots) Nevertheless artdirection in Vanguard is good but still tons of room for improvement.
These screenies are of Vanguard at 1920x1200 res and everything turned on. The one link goes to where i posted them over on VNboards and the one picture is a seperate one and not part of the series.
Great. Now all I have to do is spend $2000-$3000 to get a computer that can get that quality during play. I mean its not like its unreasonable to expect players to upgrade and spend thousands of dollars so they can play one game at a high resolution right?
Nah, depends on what you already have. If you already have a decent CPU/RAM and etc. Then maybe all it will take is $500-$1000 to as low as $200 bucks. Depending on what video card you have and a few other things. You don't need to spend $2000-$3000, just to play VG or most games for that matter.
A lot of people are really mis informed and think they got to get the whole deal. Well I guess it would be that way for proprietary systems like Dell, Gateway, HP and etc. That's why most hardcore gamers know how to build their own stuff. In the long run we save thousands of dollars each year because we all typically upgrade components on a routine basis.
Plus where did you get the idea that it is just for one game? Are you telling me you buy one game every 3-5 years? Wow, Then I would suggest you just stick with what you got. However, when you do have the bucks and are ready to ungrade. Make sure you do a nice upgrade to last you another 5 years.
Not only are you looking at VG, but maybe AoC and a lot of other titles that will be demanding DirectX 10 to see the better quality. Eventually there will be games coming out where you have to have DX10 to even play the game. Which right now only the Nvidia 8000 series cards support DX10. I don't know about the ATI cards though I am not a ATI user.
My computer can run every game thats out there today just fine at medium or full settings, games like FEAR, Oblivion, STALKER, WoW, Supreme Commander, Command and Conquer 3, and so on. The ONLY game that has been unplayable for me was Vanguard. Granted that was at launch and its a little better now but not so much better that I'm able to get acceptable frame rates.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
THERE, that is EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR TO PROVE MY POINT. LOOK AT THE CRAP HERE BTW, did all of you know that LOTRO chars use a skin for armor? Otherwords armor is the skin. it is not a separate entity like in VG. This is a typical screen with a standard card. Just like it was on my old system when I beta tested last year.
What are you talking about? there is no screen shot????? The only point you proved is out of the 15,000 beta testers in beta 1, you weren't one of them .
Originally posted by Greek_Matt 1. The Devil's In The DetailsIt's impossible to deny that the Van devs went to huge lengths to cram vast amounts of tiny details into the game. Individual leaves on trees, individual hairs on heads, sliders allowing your to choose precisely how much your lips smirk and your eyebrows arch... it's all there. This of course carries a correspondingly much heavier workload for your CPU, vid card and 'Net pipe, leading as we all know to all the performance issues that have plagued the game since forever and forcing low- and mid-end users to dial down the settings to the point where most of this stuff disappears anyway. Moreover IMO it's mostly a wasted effort - games are by their very nature about movement and dynamism, so most of these infintesimal details are lost in a blur of motion as scenery, mobs and other characters glide by. If you've got the time to count the hairs on a monster's snout, chances are it's because he's standing over your still-warm corpse, and I don't know that this particularly enhances gameplay. It's a huge resource hog that only gets noticed by the amateur photographers among us.
This is very true. Most of the sliders in VG's character creation change tiny things that only the player would notice (i.e., eye slant, nose flare, lip width, ear fold, etc.), or which would require invading someone's personal space for several minutes for anyone else to see. Plus, as you said, all those small things add to the strain on resources. That sort of tiny attention to detail works in Oblivion, since that's a single player game, but in an MMO, where so much more has to be rendered at the same time, it's a performance killer. It's basically a death by a thousand cuts.
By contrast, a game like CoH/CoV offers a myriad of external, larger changes-- body size, hair style & color, wardrobe, etc. The characters become much more individualized that way, and it's obvious to anyone who looks. Plus, all those changes are done so they don't slow you down. This allows the player to have a much more customizable look without taking a performance hit.
2. No Direction Whatever you might think of games like LoTRO, CoH/V, Guild Wars, Granado Espada (as manga-esque MMO example) or even (dare I say it?) WoW, the fact remains that these games have a definite, cohesive style about their Art Direction. Whether tending towards the more cartoon, Manga or semi-realistic, wherever you go in these worlds you always feel the style pervading everything from the characters to the environment. By contrast Vanguard, though its models might be technically correct, feels like a bunch of lifeless 3D render demos like they used to put on the boxes of video cards 4 or 5 years ago. The towns look more like B-movie film sets than living communities, and all the zones I've seen (in game and in screenshots) seem to carry the same flat, neutral mood. Nowhere seems more menacing, more uplifting, more sombre, more forbidden, more anything than anywhere else. The types of rocks and trees may change, but the world still looks the same.
Yes, yes and yes. A million times yes. I've been saying this for ages.
Love it or hate it, there is no denying that World of Warcraft has a unifying art direction. The game just looks like a Warcraft game. It's a very recognizable art style and art direction. Some of the more l33t among us might decry the "cartoony" look of the game, but it's more about the larger scheme at work. Blizzard took the already popular, already existing world of Azeroth, and its distinctive look, and translated it to an MMO. Plus, they were able to translate that art direction in a way that practically anyone can play the game, which was an absolute stroke of genius.
Same goes for LOTR. Whatever anyone can say about the character models, the world of Middle Earth rings very true to the art that has already been put out there for Tolkien's books, with each race's areas feeling organic. It's like the art direction in the films-- you could see the differences in each area that were unique to the races of Middle Earth, but it all still felt like a complete world.
With Vanguard, while there are flashes of promise in the art, for me it felt like each area was created seperately, then stiched together with generic, repeating landscapes. It never felt like a cohesive world to me, which is where games like LOTR, WoW and CoH/CoV beat it. Those games have over-arching art direction that ties all of their separate areas together, and which makes them feel like a real world.
For me then, the graphics of Vanguard can best be described as failing to see the woods for the trees. By concentrating on tiny detail at the expense of the Big Picture they've ended up with the worst of both worlds - a game that runs poorly but also looks substandard.
There's a lot of truth to this. Just look at all of the screens in this thread-- while there ARE some good details in each of them, there are larger, more glaring issues, all of which you've talked about, that detract from the overall feel of the world, and any cohesive art direction for the game. It's like they spent so much time working on making sure you could see individual strands of hair, but no time at all making sure that the environments blended together in an organic way.
With any luck, SOE will be able to overhaul the look and feel of the game with a VG expansion, just as they've done with games like EQ and EQ2. It's got promise, but as we've seen, the poor management and chaotic environment that was Sigil got in the way. Now that all that nonsense is gone, maybe the game can recover.
You people are insane gibbering about this game looks great no it is crap this game looks great...sigh!
I play both VG and LOTRO and I think both games look great. I also play EQ2 now and then, it looks ok, not as good as the other two but on the other hand it offers deeper gameplay.
Nice screen shots of both games , but how about posting some action shots of the games instead of static shots since action is the selling point to any game combative MMO.
Aah, the endless "No my grafx are better!" debate, and with a lot of angry name-calling thrown in for spice... tasty. Of course you're never going to change someone's artistic tastes just by telling them that the thing they like is crap. On the other hand, I do have some pretty firm views on the subject of the graphics in Vanguard myself, and it never hurts to let your opinions be heard if for no other treason than to allow others to understand your perspective. So here it is, my 2c on where the graphic elements of Vanguard really let the game down: You're never going to change anyones artistic "taste". Great thing about individuality. I like what I like. 1. The Devil's In The Details It's impossible to deny that the Van devs went to huge lengths to cram vast amounts of tiny details into the game. Individual leaves on trees, individual hairs on heads, sliders allowing your to choose precisely how much your lips smirk and your eyebrows arch... it's all there. This of course carries a correspondingly much heavier workload for your CPU, vid card and 'Net pipe, leading as we all know to all the performance issues that have plagued the game since forever and forcing low- and mid-end users to dial down the settings to the point where most of this stuff disappears anyway. Moreover IMO it's mostly a wasted effort - games are by their very nature about movement and dynamism, so most of these infintesimal details are lost in a blur of motion as scenery, mobs and other characters glide by. If you've got the time to count the hairs on a monster's snout, chances are it's because he's standing over your still-warm corpse, and I don't know that this particularly enhances gameplay. It's a huge resource hog that only gets noticed by the amateur photographers among us. I appreciate the attention to details that was given in VG, but I'm not sure what this has to do with artistic taste in the context that you use it. Nor do I think that it's that huge a resource drain in game. The performance problems seem to be more along the lines of zone loading, and the amount of time it takes for everything to get running smooth when you visit a new area. 2. No Direction Whatever you might think of games like LoTRO, CoH/V, Guild Wars, Granado Espada (as manga-esque MMO example) or even (dare I say it?) WoW, the fact remains that these games have a definite, cohesive style about their Art Direction. Whether tending towards the more cartoon, Manga or semi-realistic, wherever you go in these worlds you always feel the style pervading everything from the characters to the environment. By contrast Vanguard, though its models might be technically correct, feels like a bunch of lifeless 3D render demos like they used to put on the boxes of video cards 4 or 5 years ago. The towns look more like B-movie film sets than living communities, and all the zones I've seen (in game and in screenshots) seem to carry the same flat, neutral mood. Nowhere seems more menacing, more uplifting, more sombre, more forbidden, more anything than anywhere else. The types of rocks and trees may change, but the world still looks the same. http://www.keithparkinson.com/main.phpThe game has a very SPECIFIC art style. You may not be familliar with the mans work; so I'll give you the benefit of the dought here. Since I've been a fan of the guys art since PnP games like Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, and TMNT, I very much enjoy the art direction in game. You can not like it, but it is there. The world lost an incredible artist.
3. Beauty is in the (Fish)Eye of the Beholder It's hard to explain, but it always felt for me that the perspective in Vanguard was strangely skewed - things seemed to get reduced by distance at an alarming rate. This was especially evident in close-up situations, where models (eg. monsters you were fighting) appeared disproportionately distant, as though viewed through some strange camera lens effect. As well as being a little disorientating, it also made it feel like there was a lot more space between objects in the distance than there needed to be, which in turn made the world feel a little empty (subs aside ;p ). Huh? Are you talking in 3rd person or 1st person. 1st person has an option in the video setting to enable the Fps style of view. 4. Bump My Ride Now I'm a huge fan of good texturing, but for some reason the reflective values of the bump-mapping in VG seem a little off. Crank your vid settings up to max (if you dare!) and everything gets a strange sheen to it. In their pursuit of semi-realism, I think the graphic devs went a little too far and gave the game an oddly liquid-metallic cast which doesn't really fit with the high fantasy setting they're trying to create. Isn't this a result of the lighting? I didn't realise that bump mapping effected the way that light effects interact with the character models.
5. Unimation
There really is no excuse for any game to be releasing in 2007 with the kinds of wooden animations that some of the VG models seem to have. Moving characters feel like floating torsos with frozen hips/shoulders and flapping knees & elbows, jumping characters are like something an animation intern would produce. If thee was any motion capture done, they sure did a really good job of hiding it. They could use more life like animations. I agree.
For me then, the graphics of Vanguard can best be described as failing to see the woods for the trees. By concentrating on tiny detail at the expense of the Big Picture they've ended up with the worst of both worlds - a game that runs poorly but also looks substandard. It's been argued that Turbine's (purely because they've been mentioned on this thread) strength is in it's environments and not in its character detail, and I couldn't agree more, but I don't see this particularly as a weakness at all. The character models are designed to look good while in motion and from a middle distance, the view from which most gamers will be seeing them most of the time. Taking the time to make the scenery more cohesive and thematic is a much better investment in time and resources, since that's the part of the graphics that moves less slowly and sets the mood of the area. I won't deny that the aerial photos of Vanguard look great, but sadly they failed to translate this into anything meaningful in the middle-ground, which is where the game is played. But like I said, I don't expect to be changing anyone's mind. Enoy what you enjoy and respect the opinions of others! Nothing you wrote really had anything to do with artistic taste. No mention about the color pallets used? A lot of people had issues with the bland colors that the devs used for the world. Personally I think they fit very well. More earth tones, it's realstic.
As far as artistic taste goes. We all have an idea of what we find pleasing to the eye. Put 10 guys in a room and ask them what their ideal woman looks like; you'll get a variety of tastes. VG may appeal to you artistically, it may not, some people don't care either way.
If you wanna debate graphics. How each game utiilized technology to render the game. My opinion. VG eats LoTRO. Way more going on in VG; plus I prefer the artisitic style of VG.
LoTRO has a cartoony look to it. It's more of a drawn image then a painted. VG is the painted image.
Nice screen shots of both games , but how about posting some action shots of the games instead of static shots since action is the selling point to any game combative MMO.
LOS ANGELES--Sigil Games Online has announced that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is on show at this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo and will be utilizing animation technology from EMotion. The FX real-time character animation technology has allowed the game's designers to animate just one character and play back that same motion data on all characters.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a massively multiplayer game that will attempt to be the true successor to EverQuest and is set to be released this winter on the PC, and Sigil will be copublishing the game with Sony Online Entertainment. The characters in the game will share many of the same mesh assets and animations, while the EMotion technology offers distinct player-character models for thousands of characters.
We'll bring you more information on the game soon. "
They made one set of animations for ever character and npc model.
I was mentioning this before and deleted my post, but now found evidence of it's truth.
"
E3 06: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes to use EMotion tech Sigil Games Online's title using Mystic's EMotion FX real-time character animation technology on show at E3. By Guy Cocker, GameSpot Posted May 10, 2006 10:24 am PT
LOS ANGELES--Sigil Games Online has announced that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is on show at this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo and will be utilizing animation technology from EMotion. The FX real-time character animation technology has allowed the game's designers to animate just one character and play back that same motion data on all characters. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a massively multiplayer game that will attempt to be the true successor to EverQuest and is set to be released this winter on the PC, and Sigil will be copublishing the game with Sony Online Entertainment. The characters in the game will share many of the same mesh assets and animations, while the EMotion technology offers distinct player-character models for thousands of characters. We'll bring you more information on the game soon. " They made one set of animations for ever character and npc model.
I believe you misinterpretted the first paragraph.
It means that instead of having to create the same animation over and over again for every race, they could create an animation and then apply it to every race. This way basic animations can be put in much faster without the need to code each and every race.
The animations are obviousely not finished, and if they are accually using EMotion FX, then what they will be able to do is pretty insane. Did a little googling of the technology.
Nice screen shots of both games , but how about posting some action shots of the games instead of static shots since action is the selling point to any game combative MMO.
Yes i solo allot kinda the only time to think about making screenshots.
I was mentioning this before and deleted my post, but now found evidence of it's truth.
"
E3 06: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes to use EMotion tech Sigil Games Online's title using Mystic's EMotion FX real-time character animation technology on show at E3. By Guy Cocker, GameSpot Posted May 10, 2006 10:24 am PT
LOS ANGELES--Sigil Games Online has announced that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is on show at this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo and will be utilizing animation technology from EMotion. The FX real-time character animation technology has allowed the game's designers to animate just one character and play back that same motion data on all characters. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a massively multiplayer game that will attempt to be the true successor to EverQuest and is set to be released this winter on the PC, and Sigil will be copublishing the game with Sony Online Entertainment. The characters in the game will share many of the same mesh assets and animations, while the EMotion technology offers distinct player-character models for thousands of characters. We'll bring you more information on the game soon. " They made one set of animations for ever character and npc model.
I believe you misinterpretted the first paragraph.
It means that instead of having to create the same animation over and over again for every race, they could create an animation and then apply it to every race. This way basic animations can be put in much faster without the need to code each and every race.
The animations are obviousely not finished, and if they are accually using EMotion FX, then what they will be able to do is pretty insane. Did a little googling of the technology.
Man, I can't wait to see what the devs will create with SoE financing the game now.
the ".." is exactly as it appears on the gamespot article unquoted areas are my text. So yes you are correct . The problem with all this is that all Licenses are per Sigil, not SOE. SOE will have to obtain licensing for Unreal engine as well as any 3party resources all over again.
Another reality, SOE has nothing to gain by dumping money into this game.We all know , when a game starts to die ealy, there is not returning., specially in today's market.
The fish eye distortion comes from the field of view (FOV) setting used in the game engine. In a lot of first person shooters you can change this to something different but i've not been able to figure out a way to make vanguards different. Most FPS games use a default FOV of about 90 degrees. Half-life 2, in an attempt to give the world more "depth" uses a default FOV of 70 degrees (if i recall correctly) resulting in a slight fish eye affect. Half-life 2 was also the worst FPS games for making people motion sick on the default settings. A lot of over the shoulder camera games use a default fov of about 80 and then change to 90 when either in FPS mode or when changing the view to be like a FPS. Best recent example is LOTRO, scroll the camera out and look at the distance the scroll camera in and there is a brief moment where the scale of everything changes as the engine animates through from 80 to 90 degrees.
I'm currently replaying HL2 and must say , the water part makes me ill so bad I have to lay down for a few or I get really sick.
Sorry to the OP for derailing his thread but have you tried changed the FOV to a much more stomach friendly FOV of 90 degrees? Just about everyone i know who has played the game has felt ill on the default settings but were fine after changing.
Ummm...those are environment shots. I said LoTR has great environment graphics. They always have done a good job with that. AC2 proved that. Now show us the best close up of a character. I'll do one of mine and we'll compare images.
That's not an actual screenshot. That was concept art that Turbine has shown us during beta. Sorry, but I've been a LOTRO beta player ever since the Pink Alpha Faries were in and you can't fool a LOTRO player of your false character detail shots. Try again and this time do a screenshot like we all are doing and show us your character.
Same with your environment shots. They are not only shots taken by Turbine, but also they have been doctored for advertisement. If you are going to show off LOTRO I would STRONGLY suggest you do it with shots of your own. So that way people can see what gamers see. LATER
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like....victory. Or as Kelso would say....BURN! And anyway, that armor on that guy is way low poly and without bumpage just looks low budget. Mountains and trees sure to look purty tho.
One thing i will say is that Vangaurd has some of THE BEST armor and weapon models I have ever seen. The totaly beat LotRO in that department.( at least what Ive seen ) My lvl 20 Dread knight - slightly lowered Balanced settings - what I play at..
Yup that is some badass armor. And the weapons in Vanguard equally kick ass. They beat any game save arguably EQ2 and of course a billion manga fans will say Lineage 2. Anywho that armor rocks.
Awesome screens Teala thanks for this thread. I especially like the one of the lizard man close up, just so sweet. Vanguard's graphics just do it for me, some will disagree and to each their own. I am a tech guy however and I'll take high detail over bloom any day.
Yup that is some badass armor. And the weapons in Vanguard equally kick ass. They beat any game save arguably EQ2 and of course a billion manga fans will say Lineage 2. Anywho that armor rocks.
Let me know when you can have 150+ players on the screen at one time battling for something with those Vanguard models.
The low poly is for "performance" something that great developers achieve when executing game design. Seems you look at one thing, but fail to see how the one thing like "armor" plays in a grander scale of a game.
Yes , LotrO has lower poly counts, not because they are inferior, but because the over all design of the game calls for it when players will be battling 150 + in one area in real time. Vanguard will never have that kind epic battles, and it can add the extra poly's which in my opinion is like trying to add a extra helping of ice cream on a sundae of broken glass.
I appreciate the attention to details that was given in VG, but I'm not sure what this has to do with artistic taste in the context that you use it. Nor do I think that it's that huge a resource drain in game. The performance problems seem to be more along the lines of zone loading, and the amount of time it takes for everything to get running smooth when you visit a new area.
Sure, that may be the case when you're soloing against a couple of mobs... the framerates go through the floor whenever you try to get involved in any large-scale, actual MMO activity. I can't even imagine how bad it would be if even fifty players tried to get together for a battle in one place.
2. No Direction
http://www.keithparkinson.com/main.phpThe game has a very SPECIFIC art style. You may not be familliar with the mans work; so I'll give you the benefit of the dought here. Since I've been a fan of the guys art since PnP games like Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, and TMNT, I very much enjoy the art direction in game. You can not like it, but it is there.
The world lost an incredible artist.
Thanks for the helpful art lesson, and for the link. I remember that guy, used to be a fan back in the day - he had an impressive body of work in the Dragonlance series I seem to recall, among other areas of course. And if you hadn't mentioned it, I would never in a million years have guessed that his style was what the Vanguard devs were trying (and DISMALLY failing) to emulate. Too bad they didn't do a better job, the game would have been well worth looking at if they had. I'd love to see a screenshot of a Van model that looks even remotely reminiscent of a Parkinson character.
3. Beauty is in the (Fish)Eye of the Beholder
Huh? Are you talking in 3rd person or 1st person. 1st person has an option in the video setting to enable the Fps style of view.
I was talking about 3rd person. Someone a couple of posts ago linked the perfect example of this effect in a screenshot. Don't think it has anything to do with camera angle either - in a game like CoH/V for instance, you can rotate the camera to any distance and angle and play from it (if you really want to) and I've never once experienced the distance distortion effect like I do in Vanguard.
4. Bump My Ride
Isn't this a result of the lighting? I didn't realise that bump mapping effected the way that light effects interact with the character models.
It's both. More specifically, it's a combination of the over-highlighting of the texture map (if only they'd been looking at Parkinson that day) and the reflective values they gave the model skins.
Nothing you wrote really had anything to do with artistic taste. No mention about the color pallets used? A lot of people had issues with the bland colors that the devs used for the world. Personally I think they fit very well. More earth tones, it's realstic.
As far as artistic taste goes. We all have an idea of what we find pleasing to the eye. Put 10 guys in a room and ask them what their ideal woman looks like; you'll get a variety of tastes. VG may appeal to you artistically, it may not, some people don't care either way.
If you wanna debate graphics. How each game utiilized technology to render the game. My opinion. VG eats LoTRO. Way more going on in VG; plus I prefer the artisitic style of VG.
LoTRO has a cartoony look to it. It's more of a drawn image then a painted. VG is the painted image.
What the...? As I said to begin with, I wasn't going to dwell on matters of subjective taste because that's not an issue here. The failure of Vanguard's graphics aren't about people not liking a certain style, it's about people not liking that there is no style. I happen to prefer a matte palette myself (and in VG you can affect this to an extent by changing the saturation values if you do want it brighter), but there's absolutely nothing realistic or "painted" about the way Vanguard looks unless you zoom right back to the panoramic shots. LoTRO (or countless others) may have opted for a more cartoony style which you might dislike, but the fluidity with which all the elements mesh together, and the smooth animation of all those elements, result in a FAR more immersive and ultimately more realistic gaming experience.
Comments
They both lack art direction to me : Look pretty generic and bland and boring.......... Vanguard is obviously the worst outta the two but LOTRO just was pretty bad aswel lol.
For me the game needs good art and thats something WOW and EVE and SWG and any good mmorpg i play has.
Didn't necessarily say that WoW has "good" art (though millions would argue that it does) but it does have excellent art direction. It retains a consistent stylistic look and feel throughout, while simultaneously creating a wide variety of settings with very distinct moods. The models, mobs, architecture and everything else all fits together into a cohesive whole. By contrast Vanguard's art direction can be summed up by its racial diversity: just the same body with different heads stuck on like Pez dispensers.
Okay i like Vanguard much much more then WoW, but to even consider to place a reaction about WoW not having good artwork makes me think either you'r not a gamer or just never have played a game or you have no idea what is meant with artwork. All i can say is that the artwork in WoW is GREAT! this does not mean its my taste. But then again you have to be openminded to understand that. Yes Vanguard artwork also good (not great) cause much is sort of misplaced at times (oaktree/palmtree at same locations for example as seen in my own screenshots) Nevertheless artdirection in Vanguard is good but still tons of room for improvement.
Nah, depends on what you already have. If you already have a decent CPU/RAM and etc. Then maybe all it will take is $500-$1000 to as low as $200 bucks. Depending on what video card you have and a few other things. You don't need to spend $2000-$3000, just to play VG or most games for that matter.
A lot of people are really mis informed and think they got to get the whole deal. Well I guess it would be that way for proprietary systems like Dell, Gateway, HP and etc. That's why most hardcore gamers know how to build their own stuff. In the long run we save thousands of dollars each year because we all typically upgrade components on a routine basis.
Plus where did you get the idea that it is just for one game? Are you telling me you buy one game every 3-5 years? Wow, Then I would suggest you just stick with what you got. However, when you do have the bucks and are ready to ungrade. Make sure you do a nice upgrade to last you another 5 years.
Not only are you looking at VG, but maybe AoC and a lot of other titles that will be demanding DirectX 10 to see the better quality. Eventually there will be games coming out where you have to have DX10 to even play the game. Which right now only the Nvidia 8000 series cards support DX10. I don't know about the ATI cards though I am not a ATI user.
My computer can run every game thats out there today just fine at medium or full settings, games like FEAR, Oblivion, STALKER, WoW, Supreme Commander, Command and Conquer 3, and so on. The ONLY game that has been unplayable for me was Vanguard. Granted that was at launch and its a little better now but not so much better that I'm able to get acceptable frame rates.Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
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This is very true. Most of the sliders in VG's character creation change tiny things that only the player would notice (i.e., eye slant, nose flare, lip width, ear fold, etc.), or which would require invading someone's personal space for several minutes for anyone else to see. Plus, as you said, all those small things add to the strain on resources. That sort of tiny attention to detail works in Oblivion, since that's a single player game, but in an MMO, where so much more has to be rendered at the same time, it's a performance killer. It's basically a death by a thousand cuts.
By contrast, a game like CoH/CoV offers a myriad of external, larger changes-- body size, hair style & color, wardrobe, etc. The characters become much more individualized that way, and it's obvious to anyone who looks. Plus, all those changes are done so they don't slow you down. This allows the player to have a much more customizable look without taking a performance hit.
Yes, yes and yes. A million times yes. I've been saying this for ages.
Love it or hate it, there is no denying that World of Warcraft has a unifying art direction. The game just looks like a Warcraft game. It's a very recognizable art style and art direction. Some of the more l33t among us might decry the "cartoony" look of the game, but it's more about the larger scheme at work. Blizzard took the already popular, already existing world of Azeroth, and its distinctive look, and translated it to an MMO. Plus, they were able to translate that art direction in a way that practically anyone can play the game, which was an absolute stroke of genius.
Same goes for LOTR. Whatever anyone can say about the character models, the world of Middle Earth rings very true to the art that has already been put out there for Tolkien's books, with each race's areas feeling organic. It's like the art direction in the films-- you could see the differences in each area that were unique to the races of Middle Earth, but it all still felt like a complete world.
With Vanguard, while there are flashes of promise in the art, for me it felt like each area was created seperately, then stiched together with generic, repeating landscapes. It never felt like a cohesive world to me, which is where games like LOTR, WoW and CoH/CoV beat it. Those games have over-arching art direction that ties all of their separate areas together, and which makes them feel like a real world.
There's a lot of truth to this. Just look at all of the screens in this thread-- while there ARE some good details in each of them, there are larger, more glaring issues, all of which you've talked about, that detract from the overall feel of the world, and any cohesive art direction for the game. It's like they spent so much time working on making sure you could see individual strands of hair, but no time at all making sure that the environments blended together in an organic way.
With any luck, SOE will be able to overhaul the look and feel of the game with a VG expansion, just as they've done with games like EQ and EQ2. It's got promise, but as we've seen, the poor management and chaotic environment that was Sigil got in the way. Now that all that nonsense is gone, maybe the game can recover.
You people are insane gibbering about this game looks great no it is crap this game looks great...sigh!
I play both VG and LOTRO and I think both games look great. I also play EQ2 now and then, it looks ok, not as good as the other two but on the other hand it offers deeper gameplay.
As far as artistic taste goes. We all have an idea of what we find pleasing to the eye. Put 10 guys in a room and ask them what their ideal woman looks like; you'll get a variety of tastes. VG may appeal to you artistically, it may not, some people don't care either way.
If you wanna debate graphics. How each game utiilized technology to render the game. My opinion. VG eats LoTRO. Way more going on in VG; plus I prefer the artisitic style of VG.
LoTRO has a cartoony look to it. It's more of a drawn image then a painted. VG is the painted image.
Wish Darkfall would release.
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"
E3 06: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes to use EMotion tech
Sigil Games Online's title using Mystic's EMotion FX real-time character animation technology on show at E3.
LOS ANGELES--Sigil Games Online has announced that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is on show at this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo and will be utilizing animation technology from EMotion. The FX real-time character animation technology has allowed the game's designers to animate just one character and play back that same motion data on all characters.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a massively multiplayer game that will attempt to be the true successor to EverQuest and is set to be released this winter on the PC, and Sigil will be copublishing the game with Sony Online Entertainment. The characters in the game will share many of the same mesh assets and animations, while the EMotion technology offers distinct player-character models for thousands of characters.
We'll bring you more information on the game soon. "
They made one set of animations for ever character and npc model.
Another great read:
www.warcry.com/forums/read/126.41575#294176
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The red part is what you added right?
I believe you misinterpretted the first paragraph.
It means that instead of having to create the same animation over and over again for every race, they could create an animation and then apply it to every race. This way basic animations can be put in much faster without the need to code each and every race.
The animations are obviousely not finished, and if they are accually using EMotion FX, then what they will be able to do is pretty insane. Did a little googling of the technology.
You can check it out here: http://www.mysticgd.com/protomgd2004/features.html
Man, I can't wait to see what the devs will create with SoE financing the game now.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Yes i solo
allot kinda the only time to think about making screenshots.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
The red part is what you added right?
I believe you misinterpretted the first paragraph.
It means that instead of having to create the same animation over and over again for every race, they could create an animation and then apply it to every race. This way basic animations can be put in much faster without the need to code each and every race.
The animations are obviousely not finished, and if they are accually using EMotion FX, then what they will be able to do is pretty insane. Did a little googling of the technology.
You can check it out here: http://www.mysticgd.com/protomgd2004/features.html
Man, I can't wait to see what the devs will create with SoE financing the game now.
the ".." is exactly as it appears on the gamespot article unquoted areas are my text. So yes you are correct . The problem with all this is that all Licenses are per Sigil, not SOE. SOE will have to obtain licensing for Unreal engine as well as any 3party resources all over again.Another reality, SOE has nothing to gain by dumping money into this game.We all know , when a game starts to die ealy, there is not returning., specially in today's market.
You can totally see the fish eye here .
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Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Sorry to the OP for derailing his thread but have you tried changed the FOV to a much more stomach friendly FOV of 90 degrees? Just about everyone i know who has played the game has felt ill on the default settings but were fine after changing.
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That's not an actual screenshot. That was concept art that Turbine has shown us during beta. Sorry, but I've been a LOTRO beta player ever since the Pink Alpha Faries were in and you can't fool a LOTRO player of your false character detail shots. Try again and this time do a screenshot like we all are doing and show us your character.
Same with your environment shots. They are not only shots taken by Turbine, but also they have been doctored for advertisement. If you are going to show off LOTRO I would STRONGLY suggest you do it with shots of your own. So that way people can see what gamers see. LATER
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like....victory. Or as Kelso would say....BURN! And anyway, that armor on that guy is way low poly and without bumpage just looks low budget. Mountains and trees sure to look purty tho.
Awesome screens Teala thanks for this thread. I especially like the one of the lizard man close up, just so sweet. Vanguard's graphics just do it for me, some will disagree and to each their own. I am a tech guy however and I'll take high detail over bloom any day.
The low poly is for "performance" something that great developers achieve when executing game design. Seems you look at one thing, but fail to see how the one thing like "armor" plays in a grander scale of a game.
Yes , LotrO has lower poly counts, not because they are inferior, but because the over all design of the game calls for it when players will be battling 150 + in one area in real time. Vanguard will never have that kind epic battles, and it can add the extra poly's which in my opinion is like trying to add a extra helping of ice cream on a sundae of broken glass.
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Sure, that may be the case when you're soloing against a couple of mobs... the framerates go through the floor whenever you try to get involved in any large-scale, actual MMO activity. I can't even imagine how bad it would be if even fifty players tried to get together for a battle in one place.
Thanks for the helpful art lesson, and for the link. I remember that guy, used to be a fan back in the day - he had an impressive body of work in the Dragonlance series I seem to recall, among other areas of course. And if you hadn't mentioned it, I would never in a million years have guessed that his style was what the Vanguard devs were trying (and DISMALLY failing) to emulate. Too bad they didn't do a better job, the game would have been well worth looking at if they had. I'd love to see a screenshot of a Van model that looks even remotely reminiscent of a Parkinson character.
I was talking about 3rd person. Someone a couple of posts ago linked the perfect example of this effect in a screenshot. Don't think it has anything to do with camera angle either - in a game like CoH/V for instance, you can rotate the camera to any distance and angle and play from it (if you really want to) and I've never once experienced the distance distortion effect like I do in Vanguard.
It's both. More specifically, it's a combination of the over-highlighting of the texture map (if only they'd been looking at Parkinson that day) and the reflective values they gave the model skins.
As far as artistic taste goes. We all have an idea of what we find pleasing to the eye. Put 10 guys in a room and ask them what their ideal woman looks like; you'll get a variety of tastes. VG may appeal to you artistically, it may not, some people don't care either way.
If you wanna debate graphics. How each game utiilized technology to render the game. My opinion. VG eats LoTRO. Way more going on in VG; plus I prefer the artisitic style of VG.
LoTRO has a cartoony look to it. It's more of a drawn image then a painted. VG is the painted image.
What the...? As I said to begin with, I wasn't going to dwell on matters of subjective taste because that's not an issue here. The failure of Vanguard's graphics aren't about people not liking a certain style, it's about people not liking that there is no style. I happen to prefer a matte palette myself (and in VG you can affect this to an extent by changing the saturation values if you do want it brighter), but there's absolutely nothing realistic or "painted" about the way Vanguard looks unless you zoom right back to the panoramic shots. LoTRO (or countless others) may have opted for a more cartoony style which you might dislike, but the fluidity with which all the elements mesh together, and the smooth animation of all those elements, result in a FAR more immersive and ultimately more realistic gaming experience.
Wondering how isit now with my system compare to when i play on launch which is basically impossible.
RIP Orc Choppa